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With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In
With just 5 days needed for the Texas secession petition to surpass 100,000 signatories, all is not well with the Union...
... actually, not only are things not well with the Union, things are getting worse by the minute, as American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades, a process which in itself virtually assures there will be no cliff compromise before the opportunity cost of ending the stand off becomes far too great. And with the option of the Mr. Chairman "getting to work" to fix things, one wonders - is even the market a motivating enough factor given a 20, 30 or even 50% drop in the rearview mirror: after all as the Fed has demonstrated, there is no need for a fiscal compromise to get the S&P to just shy of all time highs. Certainly, even America's politicians are very much aware of this by now (of course, this assumes that Bernanke is still in charge of the market: something we have claimed for two months is very much in question).
Regardless, with the topic of secession on everybody's lips, here is what none other than Ron Paul has said about this suddenly very volatile issue.
Ron Paul: Secession Is an American Principle
Ron Paul: This weekend I got a couple of calls from the media asking me questions about Rick Perry, our governor here in Texas and the statements he made about possible secession. Now, he didn’t call for secession, but he was restating a principle that was long held and at least in the original time of our country, and that is that there was a right to secession.
Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.
Since the Civil War, it’s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. “This is un-American”, I heard one individual say, “This is treasonous to even talk about it.”
Well, they don’t know their history very well because if they think about it, it’s an American tradition. It’s very American to talk about secession. That’s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.
What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.
No. Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.
But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.
Just remember one of the reasons that Wilson drove us in unnecessarily into World War I. He talked about what we have to give, have every country in the world the benefit of self-determination, a good principle. Of course, I don’t think he really believed that. But self-determination is a good principle. It’s a very American principle, so to me it’s a shame that we can’t discuss this.
You know, it’s interesting that so many of us have been taught for so many years, and as long as I can remember from the first grade on up taking the pledge of allegiance that we have a republic that’s “indivisible” and we have been preached that and preached it. So therefore, there is no contest, no question since the Civil War that we have even the thought that this could happen.
But you know what a lot of people don’t talk about and they really don’t even know about is who wrote the pledge to the flag. The pledge to the flag came from, for instance, Bellamy, an avowed Socialist who wanted to put into concrete in the pledge this principle of being indivisible, and he did it, you know, for the celebration ironically 400 years of the celebration of the landing of Christopher Columbus, so it was in 1892.
I mean, the pledge of allegiance has not been here, you know, all our history. So I think it’s worth of discussion. I think people should discuss this because right now, the American people are sick and tired of it all and I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That time will come when the dollar collapses.
No matter what they do and how many promises they have and how many bailouts they have, they can’t do it if the money doesn’t work. So then, the independence of the states will come back and it doesn’t mean that you’ll be un-American to even contemplate what might have to be done once the dollar crashes.
While this video was originally recorded on 4/19/2009, Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills confirmed earlier today (11/13/2012) that Ron Paul “feels the same now” about secession as he did in this video.
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Print'n money!
If y'all secede, please let me in. I'll come bearing gifts & productivity, I swear!
#OptOutOfTheFractionalFiatMentalWard
RON PAUL BITCHEZ!
Let's see.
25 million divided by 320 million times $16 trillion is $1.25 trillion.
Charleston is nice too.
C'mon, South Carolina, you were first last time!
Independance?
PRICELESS!
Hook em Horns!
OT, and no, it's not from The Onion, although that's actually hard to believe (incredible headline):
Greece Considers a Buyback to Lower Its DebtI see a lot of potential for this model of "broke-dick countries buying back their debt."
Greece, which is insolvent, will (necessarily) borrow funds in order to lower its debt?
Makes perfect sense, really.
Now they just have to figure out from whom to borrow the funds to buy back their own debt given that they are insolvent now and for many, many years to come (yes...I read the article....yes, it's a Ponzi all the same).
Jesus, what a bunch of maroons. Seceding? REALLY? How do you think that would work out for you? Little country would get looted like a chinese deli on ave D. Besides, you're all on the teat:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/states-with-most-signatures-to-secede-took-millions-in-federal-money/
I think if Texas seceeded I would want to be sure they would still sell Blue Bell ice cream to us, and let us watch Austin City Limits. Otherwise, ehh...
BK: Is your inarticulate major premise that Texans got back more money from the feds than they sent up?
Didn't Texas secede already? I thought it was part of Mexico by now?
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Hey, I live in Mexico, too. California, Mexico.
http://wh.gov/X4fF
Here's a new petition.
Everything is bigger in Texas, even diametrical opposites.
Whereas some enjoy the freedom to consume large sweet drinks...
...others, like Mrs. Horseman, choose to produce large sweet potatoes.
My compliments to the gardener! Good job, Mrs. H.
RP is leading this revolution!! Fuck whoever wants to take him out. Even if something from "natural causes" happen there could be a response like no gov't has seen before because The People are fucking 1776 angry,
“duty to throw off such government”
..kind of has a nice ring to it.
I read that somewhere.
If Texas even got remotely close to doing this I'd move there in a fucking heartbeat.
Sarah Palin and husband tried to do it under the Bush administration. She now lives in Texas. Hmmmm
Surely, she had nothing to do with it. I say, go baby. Take FED Fisher with you.
With all the mexican leaf pickers in Texas. Mexico would welcome you all with open arms.
I hear that Mexico wants to buy the defunk Cowboys too. Note: Jerry has to be part of the package. All or none.
She lives in Arizona, not Texas. She lives on the 33rd north parallel, by the way, for all you Freemason conspiracy fans out there, in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Coordinates: 33°30?N 111°56?W?
And I bet she can see Mexico from her house!
I would try to buy land while it was still for sale in FRNs. Moving here too. Can you image the capital flow. No US income tax. No bullshit MSM owned by DCNYC. Maybe even ADM and Monsanto can be told to pound sand.
A guy can dream
Do I need a visa to move to Texas?
Not now. But after, you'd need much more than a visa.
i think you need a master card....
Nope a semiauto, 1000 rounds, & a case of beer. come on down ...
Texas industries:
basically commodities and government subsidized industries. Of course they are mad that Obama is cutting defense spending and trying to take down Big Oil.
Texas = Saudi Arabia with more military industrial complex.
There is also the talent remaining from a fairly substantial tech industry, which, when freed from the federal tax code, could be back in manufacturing mode in short order.
manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees.
This is the most ridiculous post as many of your others on other threads. If I have to explain why, then you are to far gone that you wouldn't understand and it would be a waste of time.
Then I see your post "manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees"
Which comfirms my thought that you are a far to gone liberal to understand anything.
Post a reply if you want. I may get back to you, even though I know it will be a waste of time. But currently I am busy making money around the liberalism wealth stealing machine. Dear Lord, if it weren't for hard working conservatives and Libertarians on this planet, Liberals like AldousHuxley wouldn't have a platform to spout their liberal nonsense. The sad part is Ald doesn't even realize that.
This is the most ridiculous post as many of your others on other threads. If I have to explain why, then you are to far gone that you wouldn't understand and it would be a waste of time.
Then I see your post "manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees"
Which comfirms my thought that you are too far gone a liberal to understand anything.
Post a reply if you want. I may get back to you, even though I know it will be a waste of time. But currently I am busy making money around the liberalism wealth stealing machine. Dear Lord, if it weren't for hard working conservatives and Libertarians on this planet, Liberals like AldousHuxley wouldn't have a platform to spout their liberal nonsense. The sad part is Ald doesn't even realize that.
Just wait until Monsanto's lawyers pay you a visit.
The Republic of Texas will stop Monsanto thugs at the border and detain them indefinitely without trial.
I see what you did there Gretchen.
Ahh, they just don't get it. All you have to say and mean is this:
I, (Name), am a sovereign man(woman) and pledge no allegiance to anyone!
There. Done.
(By the way, I am not joking)
As they impolitely say in Texas at times, "Fuck y'all, I'm from Texas." I am not from Texas, but these people get most things right.
This is all Dr Ron Paul's fault. He opened up the Pandora's box of Liberty, and now it's out of control.
What can the Illuminati do to fix it?
Apparently you've never heard of Vermont... Folks have been pushing for it there for quite a while now. Here's a more recent push:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1957743,00.html
I know about the Free State Project. I was just making a joke.
People who don't like Ron Paul's delivery can go pound sand. They just have to try and listen a little bit harder to what he says.
Do you think Dr Ron Paul just rolls over now and plays dead after what they did to him and the Ron Paul Crew?
He was looking forward to it. Now he gets to Kill.
MWG writes: " People who don't like Ron Paul's delivery can ..."
Oh geez ... you've got to leave the crazy old man alone in peace.
Quit painting him with every last hope and aspiration that pops into your, ummm, mind?
At this point, Dr Ron Paul doesn't even have to lift a finger. Go pound Sandy I7e.
P.S.
Could you please stop using excessive spaces, it really fucks up the threads?
Secession is a right!
spent a few days camping in tx with some txns and i'll tell they aint fucking around on this plan. ya don't mess with a texan.
i would move the fuck out of libtard minnesnota in a fucking heartbeat. love austin, corp crist, the walk and fucking oil rigs look good to me!
wait till you see the real estate tax rate.
I live in Florida. State constitutionally can only raise my property taxes 3%/year. I made my $1,010 tax payment on the 2,750sf homestead last week. Thank the Creator I don't live in New Jersey.
they can always raise sales taxes then and include food.
Yo, Hoaxley; I own lakefront real estate in TX and the property taxes are a fraction of New York's or New Joisey's. And no state income tax.
Plus: If you file personal bankruptcy in Texas, your creditors cannot touch your guns, your pickup truck, your tools, your land (100 acres per adult), your horse and saddle, not to mention 12 head of cattle, 60 head of other types of livestock, and 120 chickens, turkeys, etc. It goes without saying that your doublewide is untouchable.
Yeah good luck with that when the tax agents come for your payment.
You can only wish you lived in a place as sane as Mexico, as you're living in la-la land of libtardia. I think we should cut off California and kick her broke ass into the drink, green agenda, LBGT clubs and all.
Homophob, and stupid...
California produces a LOT of food. You're going to miss it... (BTW - while CA may have internal financing issues I wonder whether it, like a State that I live in once reported [I haven't kept up with this data lately] that it paid more in Fed taxes than it got back; meaning, a net loss in revenue at the Federal level means that others will be asked to pony up MORE). As always, careful of what you wish for, you may get it.
I'd settle for pushing the outer half of CA into ocean, tax revenue and all.
***nBSc Breaking News Alert***
***This Has Been A nBSc Breaking News Alert***
California produces a LOT of food
And Texans product a lot of energy ... sounds like a trading opportunity.
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic_semper_tyrannis
Oh noes ...
It's my crazy uncle from Texas at it AGAIN!
We're going to be thought of as REVOLUTIONARIES on the west and east coast by the major news networks amd newspapers and ALL the **pols** THAT MATTER (like Chris Christie!)
Oh noes!!!!
Clean up on aisle 7.
Funny grrl (you just gotta be female)
'Hounding a man into submission' is a female thing.
Hey!
The SEC's motto!
"Always Trannies"
Bingo. They received more money from the Fed Gov because the first GAVE more money to the Fed Gov. Funny how that works.
It's not a premise, it's a fact. When it comes to federal money, the Red states take more than they give, blue states pay more than they get.
I'd love to see Texas try make it on it's own, that would be a good one... 100,000 Texans and about 200 dumb-asses on ZH really haven't thought this one through too well, but that's no surprise.
Love it or leave it, bitchez, no one's stopping you. Since secession is a pipe dream, I suggest relocating to somewhere in the developing world where there isn't too much socialism for y'all to handle. Africa is wide open...
The three best things about Texas:
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Sheeeit. The only thing Texan more overrated than Mr. S.R. Vaughn is Mr. W. Nelson.
Curious...Have you ever seen SRV?
Obviously he's never drank a beer, swung his lady to 'Pride and Joy'... oh, and ya gotta pee standing up.
Naw, he don't tour much these last 20 years or so. Saw him @ Fitzgerald's in Houston about a million years ago - does that count? BTW, he sucked. Not as bad as *Willie*, but.....
Well of course then there's the Texas 'Needed Killin' law.
"Why'd you kill 'em, boy?"
"Judge, he needed killin'."
Go back south of the border vato.
Who the fuck can down vote SRV. I say let them stay New England.
And freeze in the dark.
New England, home of the American Revolution loves SRV and has whole clubs devoted to him.
Can't stand the weather? Wait a minute.
To quote another of the beloved singers...
Just send me to hell or New York City, it would be about the same to me.
Y'all're funny, boys. I'd cheefully bet I'm more Texan - going by # of generations the family's been in the state - than the lot of yew put together. So y'all like the blues, do ya? Ever wonder why? I rather suspect it's because when you were zit-faced teens, the smooth-talkin' manly guy on the cool FM station ("album rock only, man!")....I think you're Stevie Ray/blues fans because the smooth FM guy with the pornstar mustache *told you* it was "totally cool, dudes. Forget Elvis, man: _this_ is the genesis of rock!" And y'all ate it up without question or critical thought. You liked it because you were told to like it.
Saw something similar quite a lot every time the fullers & I made a roadtrip to Austintatious for a 6th St. Saturday night: at the beginning of the school year, it always seemed like you'd hear a lot of the UT freshmen singing the praises of that 'authentic and amazing High Priest of Western Swang, Bob Wills.' "He's still the King, hoss!" After all, Waylon hisself had done gone & told 'em so. You could also spot the month after they'd actually gone & bought a Texas Playboys LP, and gave it a serious listen: no mo' Bob Wills talk. Because while it was the bee's knee's in the '30's, by today's standards, western swang actually kinda.....sucks. (AAHHHH-hawww!). (Life its ownself is like that sometimes) (and I can out-Dan Jenkins any one of you fuckers without breakin' a sweat, for that matter) Oh, they'd never go so far as to bad-mouth Mr. Wills: that might be uncool! The worstest thing EVAR for a stream of rebellious free-thinkers all dressed alike, all drinking Corona, (PBR nowdays, right? What's next? Pearl? Texas Pride? Horsepiss?) all taking identically ultracool paths to Big Hat Texanhood and nonconformity. So it goes with blues, I suspect. But, hey! this is America: y'all listen to whatever overrated musical artist you like (Jimi? Janis? Is that you? How's your mom and them??) and keep telling yourself it's good.
Dusty Hill, Frank Beard, and Billy Gibbons?
aaaannnnnnnd NOW you're talkin', pard. Also, can anyone 'splain why ZZT makes more in one show than all the blues old fucks/"artists" *combined* make in a year? Is it 'cuz they're sellouts? 'Cuz they play Britney Spears music? No?
Most of the states have economies and populations near to or even greater than viable singular nations. What you don't seem to understand is we are 50 different "nations" that agreed to play together as one. If countries the size of a single U.S. county can survive, than there's no problem with our states breaking off.
BTW, that little link you provided ignores the simple question of, where did the federal money come from in the first place? That's right, taxes bitch.
/BUCK FARACK/
Turns out that Texas has another size prize to its credit.
Texas is proving to be the most ridiculously immature state in the union.
Then you don't mind letting them go, right?
haha, bk and ratso - too much. Topics like this always bring out the trolls. Go troll glen becks site, ask him and Hannity to meet up with you tools; you can circle jerk around an obelisk, or a federal building or something. Perhaps at an airport name after a former president / CIA director. You can bring some TSA "officials" in on the party
careful, Glenn Beck has many fans here, lol.
he also has a wiki page that changes every week, pretty funny to watch - today's version notes that he currently leases a home in "the Fort Worth suburb of Westlake Texas" - ruh roh! - and this tidbit that may change soon,
now that he's got the magic underwear, I wonder what part he'll play in the unfolding drama. . .
cheers for making my point lads!
Whenever I want to punish myself, I go to Glenn Beck's website and count how many times he's stuck his picture on the front page. One shock to the groin for every Beck mug on the first page.
Well, by my count the votes indicate Ratso is a dumbass who doesn't get it. Funny, because I was talking with someone else tonight about this subject and thier kneejerk reaction was "good riddance." This came from a normalcy bias suffering baby boomer who voted for Obama because he felt he was better for the markets than Romney in order to keep funding his own retirement - who with a straight face admits nothing will be left in a few years for anyone else - but still thinks somehow it will all be okay. lol.
America might have voted for Obama, but Texas voted for Rick Perry. Oooops!
I believe that is what's called a Mexican Stand-off.
dude I could give a buck about farack, you're missing the point. They spend more than they take in. The threat to secede is like that broke cousin threating to leave the family.
Ha Ha. I say good riddance. You can take your share of the debt with you.
SpongeBob: "We have square dancing, barby-cues... Peas-in-a-can pie and our very own ten-gallon hats."
Hey dipshit, what do you think happens when someone leaves the Union? OK, numbnuts, let's try this thought experiment...what happened to all the Soviet debt when the Soviet Union broke apart. Now, imagine the same happens to the U.S. Bingo- no more national debt to be repaid, though granny would really take it up the keister and those who are so used to the welfare checks would need to learn how to pick cotton (no matter what color their skin is- this isn't a racial thing). Those holding FRNs instead of real money- well, they are fucked too.
And why do you think Texas takes in so much money from the Feds? Does it have anything to do with OIL???
Same answer as to Ratso above. Amazing how this subject has drawn out the closet morons on this site. Jesus. You asshats really define the concept that you get the government you deserve.
Holy crap someone who isn't brainwashed!!!!
+1000 Grinder. EXACTLY. It's called the United STATES of America. STATE being NATION-STATE.
A Republic. The concept has been lost.
You broke the link.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/states-with-most-signatures...
These are the important bits:
And I like this a lot too, just for fun:
It'd be kinda cool if they had to build a wall around Austin and have whatever was left of "The United States" support them with airlift operations. From time to time, the native Tejanis might have to smuggle some girl over the wall to get an abortion, or access to birth control. Hee hee.
It's not about "revenue". It's about liberty.
I know what you mean.
For sure, from a "liberty" perspective, if I ever decide to rape some woman, I want to do it where I'll be assured my unborn offspring would be "free" from her having the right to abort.
You ever rape a woman down here in my neck of the woods you won't have to worry about much of anything.
Heh, yeah. You're so scary on the innerwebz, tough guy. I'm sure you're not as intimidating in person.
Calm down, Mr. Wannabe Rapist. There will be no secession. There will, however, be dissolution - brought about not by choice, but by the cycle of history.
It will not be as fun or as gratifying as clicking on a box on a web page at presidentialpalace.gov
You're ruining all the fun...you mean you DON'T think that was a credible threat from mnewn?
Think of it not as a threat, but as a warning.
It's less likely I'd ever want to rape someone than that mnewn would ever have the balls to become a vigilante, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for either.
Then why do you engage in fantasies so compelling that you blurt them out in public?
I do know one of his fantasies/theories that is false...the one he has about me...I'd love to show him my scars...in person, each one has a story ;-)
Wow,
too much for me, this fight club Zerohedge homoeroticism
No more of a threat than you deciding to rape a woman.
And a threat made by whom? Its more of an observation of cultural facts you fucking freak...try raping a woman anywhere in the small town south (either side of "the tracks") and see how far you get.
Reading comprehension is pretty low up north I take it.
Our northern best & brightest, in all his full conceited glory, looking down its nose at lil ole me...ROTFL!!!
Reading comprehension...you mean like understanding what a "hypothetical" is?
I just like taunting you because I know I can make you ANGRY.
It blows my mind, but I've come to realize you're the type of person who LIKES getting angry, so you should really be thanking me for trolling your dumbass self. Go tell your friends how you told off some dumb commie yankee on the innerwebz and you can all get a good laugh out of it.
Isn't it just crazy old Republicans who are supposed to base their political rants on rape, rape, rape? Of course I never heard any of them say that they had considered engaging in that activity, hypothetically or otherwise.
If anyone bases ALL their political rants on rape, I think it's a reasonable cause for concern.
If someone bases ONE of their political arguments on a rape-scenario, I'd give 'em some leeway.
It doesn't matter *here.* This is just a monkey-house. The place is being overrun by the know-nothings, and we're all paying the price. But at least it keeps people at home and not causing any political trouble or making any real changes in their life, so there's a good reason to tolerate this.
No "doctor"...
"For sure, from a >>>"liberty" perspective, if I ever DECIDE to rape some woman,<<< I want to do it where I'll be assured my unborn offspring would be "free" from her having the right to abort."
You chose your words poorly, trying to construct a strawman on abortion where no one has mentioned it on this thread...until you.
You even placed yourself in the role of a rapist in order to do it, under the guise of TAKING THE LIBERTY OF A WOMAN.
You're one sick fuck and my friends find nothing laughable about you or your strawman.
Yeah, I know. It's about as telling of my true nature as the constant references to being fucked in the ass by a black guy from you and your "conservative" buddies.
As long as it wasn't rape...I'm gonna guess its what you desire BD.
Any other fantasies you'd like to share?
You're going lame...I'll bow out at the "I'm rubber, you're glue" tactic, but if you step it up, I'll be glad to come back.
nmewm asked if you had any other fantasies and you responded with: "I'll bow out at the "I'm rubber, you're glue" tactic, but if you step it up, I'll be glad to come back."
Paging Dr. Freud, you have a call at the front desk.
Nah, you're smart enough to understand the context of the discussion to that point.
Pathetic. Engage on the ideas, eh? The whole playing-dumb routine is a bit old coming from you.
Since when is providing a Freudian analysis playing dumb? Please try not to get overexcited by the word "analysis."
There's no "analysis," Crock. That was nothing but a snide comment.
I'll rewind the conversation because perhaps you really do need some help understanding what happened:
I had pointed out how often we hear posters here chattering about being anally-raped by Obama, and nmewn had responded by suggesting it was a fantasy of MINE, at which point I mentioned that response is sufficiently juvenile to convince me there's no chance of any real discussion here.
You must be thrilled at the opportunity to keep piling on, but this would be a lot more interesting if you'd actually express some thinking about the conflict between "liberty" and "using the police state to prevent medical procedures millions of people want or need."
This all started when nmewn was set off by a point I raised that you guys have continued to evade so far...
.
"this thread" - but on all the other RP threads, no one addresses the topic, ever - it's like the choir turns up the volume on the hymns every time anyone questions the faith.
as to the "TAKING THE LIBERTY OF A WOMAN" - wow, just wow. have we defined what "liberty" a "woman" gets yet? because that's a sacred, secret subject too, apparently.
why is it that only you and crock take up this topic? even if you both dance around the actual facts, repeatedly. . .
ayup, there's the new ZH argument, the silent downarrow strikes again.
sooo boring.
Cat A.,
I up arrowed on both posts as I support your efforts being the single father of 2 daughterts. I have always encouraged their indpendence and never suggetsed they couldn't accomplish anyting they set their minds and hearts to accomplish.
Being a long time lurker but infrequent poster it is hypocritical to say but if you could share more about the positive aspects of being a woman and parent you may find a more attentive audience - if that matters.
QF
I appreciate your even "speaking" to me, lol - but more importantly, that you support your daughters, as a father. I believe it's an important step for a parent to realise that their children are independent in and of themselves, and to encourage them doing whatever they're drawn to, as you say, in their heart. and as a parent, I'm sure you'll help them temper their heart's desires with practical, adult advice from experience - it's difficult to overcome the cultural stories they're fed about how, as females, their greatest "worth" is in their appearance, and sexuality. I'm not a parent, but I've been a mentor and counselor to both young females and males - it's important to hear how they view the culture/society they live in, and then work from there, rather than expecting them to see through your (adult, experienced) eyes. give according to their reality, from your heart. . .
for the record, I don't refer to myself as a "woman" because I believe the culture defines "woman" in a way that harms both "men" (males) and "women" - the cultural standards and expectations of both promote the culture, not the individual human - culture trains the participants in the ways of "advancing" the culture, at the expense of individuality, and each individual's inherent gifts, which are often mocked or belittled. if you want an example, look at how each culture in the many globally frames their "womanhood" rules - the men are pretty universal at this stage, but look into "woman" both presently, and historically - even the past 75 years in amrka gives a sharp eye/mind MANY clues as to what's going down.
Let your daughters find themselves, support them, advise them, love them - that's my ideal parent.
thanks again, take care.
(oh, and as to a more "attentive" or even receptive audience, I could maybe temper my temper, ha! but that wouldn't be my voice, which is what it is at this stage. . . most of my sharp edges here are honed for purposes, I take the Fight Club idea more seriously than I do the socialising, even tho' I like the latter with some)
I've discussed this with you repeatedly. But you're antichoice. You don't believe that women might want to consider love or morality when making decisions about life and death. You don't want her loved ones -- especially any men -- to interfere by reassuring her and supporting her and her child. Why do find such simple and humane acts to be objectionable?
They're both delusional.
BD brought up abortion by way of his "taking liberty" with a woman. And Cat has zero restraint when the subject comes up...its like throwing raw meat to a starving dog...lol.
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Edit...one is delusional and one is a zealot.
given that zealot is most often used to describe a religion defender, I'll let you & Crock argue over who best fits that mantle in the Pro-Life stakes.
one person's "zealot" is another's "freedom fighter" - language & labels, everyone gets some.
I used the word in its broadest sense ;-)
Also, I had expected it would be none other than you, who would be "taking up arms against" someone as brash as to compare the taking of liberty (in this case, the rape of a woman) under the guise of exercising his own liberty.
Which is exactly what he said...then tried to squirm out of it.
You "progressives" never cease to amaze me...yes, labels.
you and your co-non-thinker could use a bit of sharp in your non-arguments, but I'll not hold my breath, I've been pointing to this for a year now, and NO ONE has been able to successfully respond beyond, "well, I'm pro-life, anti-abortion, so that's what I vote" - which is FINE, but calling it "libertarian" flavour and then putting a bunch of emotive "liberty, freedom" and group hugs into the threads while pointedly ignoring Sanctity of Life amendments as they continue to EVOLVE is lying, by deliberate omission of facts, lying to yourselves and others. just like the politicians do daily.
I'll continue to add a post here 'n' there to the group hug threads whenever I'm moved to do it - trust me, I could care less what any of you "believe" about anything, integrity is thin on the ground here of late.
now back to your labels, I realise they help you "think."
Again Cat, blunderdog ham handedly introduced the topic of abortion by way of of his theoretical rape of a woman.
YOU found nothing in his post worth disagreeing with? Nothing?
I pointed out there are certain communities where such a thing is intolerable and people will take action to make sure the rapists career would be short lived. And he even made the statement under the guise of asserting HIS liberty! It was outrageous!
You are both free to live in the nebulus world you construct for each others amusement. I don't live there.
Don't think he was talking about a fistfight, more like a .45.
For once I found something that I could completely agree with you on...
Some things are beyond the bounds of decency.
To make a "theoretical" argument of liberty is one thing. To attach his liberty to something ALL societies deem a crime is another.
I know why he did it, to derail the thread. It worked to some degree, which speaks volumes to motive.
"Census records show that six of the seven states that amassed more than 25,000 signatures on their petitions to form independent nations in the past week took more than $10 million in revenue from the federal government that year [2010]."
Yeah, we've got a problem with yankees coming down here and saying shit like..."Thats not the way we do it back home."
You can always tell the native though...he spits in the guys face.
Natives? Mexican, Indian?
Context. Florida Cracker = native...but a couple of drops of Creek if it makes any difference ;-)
Uh huh... and how much of that "federal money" qas there because of federal mandates? Like "NO child left educated?" Like "Head start"? And how much of that federal money was SPENT on Federal Mandates that would just go away if Texas were no longer connected to the Federal Money Pit?
do your math bkbroiler. THESE STATES WOULDNT NEED MILLIONS IN FEDERAL MONEY IF THE MONEY STAYED IN THEIR STATE TO BEGIN WITH.
perhaps you fail to see the lunacy in having the federal government siphon money away from the states, only to then send it back to the states in the form of pork barrel spending, infrastructure, etc. as if the federal government is doing a favor??????????
math bkbroiler, math!!!!
What's your guess kito? Do the states get back 5% of what they send over? 10%? Has anyone ever seen the math?
the best i can find on short notice. texas pays more than it gets.....
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
Maybe so. But look what we get in return - a marvelously violent, overbearing, meddlesome nanny state... and all those swell wars. Best of all, we get to fly the yankee war flag on the 4th.
It takes a village to burn a village in order to save it.
Blobbing-up secessionistic citizenism is a Texan 'american' middle class thing.
Make me laugh!
I gotta book mark that one.
How could any state get back more than it pays? Perhaps by some states sending up more than they receive, while other states receive more than they pay? If that's happening, the "wealthy, high-tax-paying" state citizens will soon be very discontented to learn which poor states they are subsidizing. The 10% states VS the 47% states? That's not happening.
Or, aren't all states sending up ton$ in individual, corporate, estate and other taxes and fees, and getting back at best only some small %, after federal government and agency expense, foreign military and foreign aid expense, and other foreign waste and corruption are considered? (NoBama's supporter who received a $22 MIL foreign aid grant - to open several European car dealerships in Russia? Money came from taxes paid by your state. Hello?).
Amazing that no one has done the math that would reveal the aggregate flow of funds from states to wasteful, corrupt and obstructive federal agencies and foreign interests and adventures.
The post-election 4-6% stock market index declines tell me that Mr. Market has decisively won the first debate with Mr. NoBama, and the charts suggest that ongoing debates do not favor the community organizer.
let's talk about math
http://chartporn.org/2012/01/25/red-state-socialism/
I want my money back. socialists
Complete and unadulterated horseshit. You have only two options- you are either a liar or an idiot. This is based on a 2005 Tax Foundations "study" which is so abysmally bad any freshman in a community college would fail for using it, the data is not given and the first source listed is downright fraudulent. Go ahead idiot boy, go to their site and look up what Special Report #158 is that they list as their first source and then for additional laughs look at their methodology. Anyone citing this study is intellectually lazy in the extreme and doesnt have either the intellectual curiosity or horsepower to actually delve into the matter.
Here is the reality:
2010 CFFR report showing exactly which states got what and how much, table 13 has the state data (both overall and broken down)-
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/cffr-10.pdf
2010 IRS data showing how much Federal tax was collected in each state-
http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats---Gross-Collections,-by-Type-of-Tax-and-State,-Fiscal-Year---IRS-Data-Book-Table-5
There are in reality very few states which got soaked for more than they got in 2010. They are as follows 1) New Jersey 37.95 billion 2) Minnesota 23.63 billion 3) Delaware 7.25 billion 4) Nebraska 1.1 billion 5) Illinois 1.07 billion 6) Ohio 34 million
Top net receivers for 2010- 1) Virginia 78.13 billion 2) Florida 75.34 billion 3) California 60.46 billion 4) Maryland 48.59 billion 5) Pennsylvania 44.08 billion 6) DC 43.52 billion
Yeah, lets talk about math but first you need to learn how to do it. By all means crunch the numbers and stop being a fool.
This money includes any military bases at the state so that money needs to be factored out
The CFFR report gives total money and broken down by category- Retirement/disability, grants, procurement, salaries, and other.
The "study" regularly used by blithering morons such as the ones above uses total payments for all reasons, so I used the same yardstick.
All your military are belong to us !
Put some Cheezburger Kat on that.
Texas.
Duck n cover.
military spending is government's subtle way of dropping unemployment numbers... dropping military spending will cause a huge spike in unemployment and cause social unrest. it is no differnt that masked welfare to keep the proles in check.
no difference? military spending results in people actually doing work being in manufacturing and soldiering and a somewhat over priced product being produced.
Welfare equals video gaming, fat mommas and papas and zero production.
any state that gives more than it gets, and then "gets federal aid" is getting the short end of the stick.... texas has every right to demand secession without being looked upon as hypocrites...............
I want my money back on the TSA 1.6 billion hollow point bullet purchase.
I'll take my share in said hollowpoints. pre-fired please.....
Umm your shitty chart says Texas gives more than it gets...
yeah, I was wondering about that too. Notice the whole west coast. Serfs up dude