This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In

Tyler Durden's picture


With just 5 days needed for the Texas secession petition to surpass 100,000 signatories, all is not well with the Union...

... actually, not only are things not well with the Union, things are getting worse by the minute, as American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades, a process which in itself virtually assures there will be no cliff compromise before the opportunity cost of ending the stand off becomes far too great. And with the option of the Mr. Chairman "getting to work" to fix things, one wonders - is even the market a motivating enough factor given a 20, 30 or even 50% drop in the rearview mirror: after all as the Fed has demonstrated, there is no need for a fiscal compromise to get the S&P to just shy of all time highs. Certainly, even America's politicians are very much aware of this by now (of course, this assumes that Bernanke is still in charge of the market: something we have claimed for two months is very much in question).

Regardless, with the topic of secession on everybody's lips, here is what none other than Ron Paul has said about this suddenly very volatile issue.

Ron Paul: Secession Is an American Principle


Ron Paul: This weekend I got a couple of calls from the media asking me questions about Rick Perry, our governor here in Texas and the statements he made about possible secession. Now, he didn’t call for secession, but he was restating a principle that was long held and at least in the original time of our country, and that is that there was a right to secession.

Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Since the Civil War, it’s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. “This is un-American”, I heard one individual say, “This is treasonous to even talk about it.”

Well, they don’t know their history very well because if they think about it, it’s an American tradition. It’s very American to talk about secession. That’s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.

What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.

No. Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.

Just remember one of the reasons that Wilson drove us in unnecessarily into World War I. He talked about what we have to give, have every country in the world the benefit of self-determination, a good principle. Of course, I don’t think he really believed that. But self-determination is a good principle. It’s a very American principle, so to me it’s a shame that we can’t discuss this.

You know, it’s interesting that so many of us have been taught for so many years, and as long as I can remember from the first grade on up taking the pledge of allegiance that we have a republic that’s “indivisible” and we have been preached that and preached it. So therefore, there is no contest, no question since the Civil War that we have even the thought that this could happen.

But you know what a lot of people don’t talk about and they really don’t even know about is who wrote the pledge to the flag. The pledge to the flag came from, for instance, Bellamy, an avowed Socialist who wanted to put into concrete in the pledge this principle of being indivisible, and he did it, you know, for the celebration ironically 400 years of the celebration of the landing of Christopher Columbus, so it was in 1892.

I mean, the pledge of allegiance has not been here, you know, all our history. So I think it’s worth of discussion. I think people should discuss this because right now, the American people are sick and tired of it all and I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That time will come when the dollar collapses.

No matter what they do and how many promises they have and how many bailouts they have, they can’t do it if the money doesn’t work. So then, the independence of the states will come back and it doesn’t mean that you’ll be un-American to even contemplate what might have to be done once the dollar crashes.

While this video was originally recorded on 4/19/2009, Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills confirmed earlier today (11/13/2012) that Ron Paul “feels the same now” about secession as he did in this video.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:48 | 2982049 PrintingPress
PrintingPress's picture

Print'n money!

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:50 | 2982051 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If y'all secede, please let me in. I'll come bearing gifts & productivity, I swear!



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:53 | 2982060 fuu
fuu's picture


Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:56 | 2982074 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Let's see.

25 million divided by 320 million times $16 trillion is $1.25 trillion.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:57 | 2982079 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

Charleston is nice too.


C'mon, South Carolina, you were first last time!

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:59 | 2982087 Kitler
Kitler's picture



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 19:59 | 2982094 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Hook em Horns!

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:09 | 2982097 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

OT, and no, it's not from The Onion, although that's actually hard to believe (incredible headline):


Greece Considers a Buyback to Lower Its Debt


I see a lot of potential for this model of "broke-dick countries buying back their debt."

Greece, which is insolvent, will (necessarily) borrow funds in order to lower its debt?

Makes perfect sense, really.

Now they just have to figure out from whom to borrow the funds to buy back their own debt given that they are insolvent now and for many, many years to come (yes...I read the article....yes, it's a Ponzi all the same).

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:24 | 2982161 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Jesus, what a bunch of maroons.  Seceding? REALLY?  How do you think that would work out for you?  Little country would get looted like a chinese deli on ave D.  Besides, you're all on the teat:

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:31 | 2982216 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

I think if Texas seceeded I would want to be sure they would still sell Blue Bell ice cream to us, and let us watch Austin City Limits. Otherwise, ehh...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:53 | 2982319 franzpick
franzpick's picture

BK: Is your inarticulate major premise that Texans got back more money from the feds than they sent up?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:00 | 2982348 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Didn't Texas secede already? I thought it was part of Mexico by now?

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Hey, I live in Mexico, too. California, Mexico.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:05 | 2982363 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Here's a new petition.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:44 | 2982455 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades...


Everything is bigger in Texas, even diametrical opposites.

Whereas some enjoy the freedom to consume large sweet drinks...


...others, like Mrs. Horseman, choose to produce large sweet potatoes.


Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:19 | 2982816 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

My compliments to the gardener! Good job, Mrs. H.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:38 | 2982882 Dalago
Dalago's picture

RP is leading this revolution!!   Fuck whoever wants to take him out.  Even if something from "natural causes" happen there could be a response like no gov't has seen before because The People are fucking 1776 angry,

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:55 | 2982950 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“duty to throw off such government”

..kind of has a nice ring to it.

I read that somewhere.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:01 | 2983107 redpill
redpill's picture

If Texas even got remotely close to doing this I'd move there in a fucking heartbeat.


Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:30 | 2983148 rocker
rocker's picture

Sarah Palin and husband tried to do it under the Bush administration.  She now lives in Texas. Hmmmm

Surely, she had nothing to do with it. I say, go baby. Take FED Fisher with you.

With all the mexican leaf pickers in Texas. Mexico would welcome you all with open arms. 

I hear that Mexico wants to buy the defunk Cowboys too.  Note: Jerry has to be part of the package. All or none.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 14:28 | 2984872 Orly
Orly's picture

She lives in Arizona, not Texas.  She lives on the 33rd north parallel, by the way, for all you Freemason conspiracy fans out there, in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Coordinates: 33°30?N 111°56?W?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 14:56 | 2985009 akak
akak's picture


She lives in Arizona, not Texas.

And I bet she can see Mexico from her house!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 10:48 | 2983882 jayman21
jayman21's picture

I would try to buy land while it was still for sale in FRNs.  Moving here too.  Can you image the capital flow.  No US income tax.  No bullshit MSM owned by DCNYC.  Maybe even ADM and Monsanto can be told to pound sand.


A guy can dream

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:57 | 2982960 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Do I need a visa to move to Texas?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:02 | 2983110 redpill
redpill's picture

Not now.  But after, you'd need much more than a visa.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 07:41 | 2983397 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i think you need a master card....

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 10:23 | 2983778 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Nope a semiauto, 1000 rounds, & a case of beer. come on down ...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:57 | 2982961 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Texas industries:

  1. Big Oil and enegery
  2. defense military industrial complex
  3. healthcare
  4. cattle

basically commodities and government subsidized industries. Of course they are mad that Obama is cutting defense spending and trying to take down Big Oil.


Texas = Saudi Arabia with more military industrial complex.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 03:16 | 2983243 zhandax
zhandax's picture

There is also the talent remaining from a fairly substantial tech industry, which, when freed from the federal tax code, could be back in manufacturing mode in short order.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 05:57 | 2983351 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare  just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 09:54 | 2983633 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

This is the most ridiculous post as many of your others on other threads. If I have to explain why, then you are to far gone that you wouldn't understand and it would be a waste of time.


Then I see your post "manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare  just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees"


Which comfirms my thought that you are a far to gone liberal to understand anything.


Post a reply if you want. I may get back to you, even though I know it will be a waste of time. But currently I am busy making money around the liberalism wealth stealing machine. Dear Lord, if it weren't for hard working conservatives and Libertarians on this planet, Liberals like AldousHuxley wouldn't have a platform to spout their liberal nonsense. The sad part is Ald doesn't even realize that.


Thu, 11/15/2012 - 09:56 | 2983635 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

This is the most ridiculous post as many of your others on other threads. If I have to explain why, then you are to far gone that you wouldn't understand and it would be a waste of time.


Then I see your post "manufacturing will return to US once obamacare gives healthcare to low level workers. That's the whole plan to save the midwest manufacturing states....subsidize healthcare  just like Japan did with toyota. Ford's labor cost differentiator is healthcare for workers and retirees"


Which comfirms my thought that you are too far gone a liberal to understand anything.


Post a reply if you want. I may get back to you, even though I know it will be a waste of time. But currently I am busy making money around the liberalism wealth stealing machine. Dear Lord, if it weren't for hard working conservatives and Libertarians on this planet, Liberals like AldousHuxley wouldn't have a platform to spout their liberal nonsense. The sad part is Ald doesn't even realize that.


Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:43 | 2983169 Martel
Martel's picture

Just wait until Monsanto's lawyers pay you a visit.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 09:07 | 2983512 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

The Republic of Texas will stop Monsanto thugs at the border and detain them indefinitely without trial.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:38 | 2982468 fuu
fuu's picture

I see what you did there Gretchen.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:44 | 2982489 0z
0z's picture

Ahh, they just don't get it. All you have to say and mean is this:

I, (Name), am a sovereign man(woman) and pledge no allegiance to anyone!

There. Done.

(By the way, I am not joking)

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:56 | 2982732 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

As they impolitely say in Texas at times, "Fuck y'all, I'm from Texas." I am not from Texas, but these people get most things right.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:23 | 2982807 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

This is all Dr Ron Paul's fault. He opened up the Pandora's box of Liberty, and now it's out of control.

What can the Illuminati do to fix it?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:24 | 2982835 Seer
Seer's picture

Apparently you've never heard of Vermont...  Folks have been pushing for it there for quite a while now.  Here's a more recent push:,8599,1957743,00.html

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:39 | 2982859 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I know about the Free State Project. I was just making a joke.

People who don't like Ron Paul's delivery can go pound sand. They just have to try and listen a little bit harder to what he says.

Do you think Dr Ron Paul just rolls over now and plays dead after what they did to him and the Ron Paul Crew?

 He was looking forward to it. Now he gets to Kill.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:40 | 2982892 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture





MWG writes: " People who don't like Ron Paul's delivery can ..."


Oh geez ... you've got to leave the crazy old man alone in peace.


Quit painting him with every last hope and aspiration that pops into your, ummm, mind?



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:51 | 2982911 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

At this point, Dr Ron Paul doesn't even have to lift a finger. Go pound Sandy I7e.


Could you please stop using excessive spaces, it really fucks up the threads?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:35 | 2982874 Future Jim
Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:51 | 2982938 new game
new game's picture

spent a few days camping in tx with some txns and i'll tell they aint fucking around on this plan.  ya don't mess with a texan.

i would move the fuck out of libtard minnesnota in a fucking heartbeat.  love austin, corp crist, the walk and fucking oil rigs look good to me!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:07 | 2982986 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

wait till you see the real estate tax rate.



Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:54 | 2983008 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I live in Florida. State constitutionally can only raise my property taxes 3%/year. I made my $1,010 tax payment on the 2,750sf homestead last week. Thank the Creator I don't live in New Jersey.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 06:09 | 2983355 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

they can always raise sales taxes then and include food.






Thu, 11/15/2012 - 09:21 | 2983545 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Yo, Hoaxley; I own lakefront real estate in TX and the property taxes are a fraction of New York's or New Joisey's. And no state income tax.

Plus: If you file personal bankruptcy in Texas, your creditors cannot touch your guns, your pickup truck, your tools, your land (100 acres per adult), your horse and saddle, not to mention 12 head of cattle, 60 head of other types of livestock, and 120 chickens, turkeys, etc. It goes without saying that your doublewide is untouchable.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 04:23 | 2983285 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Yeah good luck with that when the tax agents come for your payment.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:54 | 2982726 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

You can only wish you lived in a place as sane as Mexico, as you're living in la-la land of libtardia. I think we should cut off California and kick her broke ass into the drink, green agenda, LBGT clubs and all.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:18 | 2982814 Seer
Seer's picture

Homophob, and stupid...

California produces a LOT of food.  You're going to miss it... (BTW - while CA may have internal financing issues I wonder whether it, like a State that I live in once reported [I haven't kept up with this data lately] that it paid more in Fed taxes than it got back; meaning, a net loss in revenue at the Federal level means that others will be asked to pony up MORE).  As always, careful of what you wish for, you may get it.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:35 | 2982878 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

I'd settle for pushing the outer half of CA into ocean, tax revenue and all.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:12 | 2982970 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture




***nBSc Breaking News Alert***


It's being reported by anonymous government sources that we haven't bothered to independently screen that Ron Paul has sent topless photos of himself to Jill Kelley.


Could statists, Paul Krugman, wondertwins Warren Buffett-Charles Munger, Chuck Schumer, Brian Wesbury & the highly patriotic Banking-Financial-DefenseContractor-CronyCapitalist Complex have been correct about gold being a barbarous relic, libertarianism being bad for your health & Ron Paul being "terroristy" after all?


We'll have extremely scripted details from the Ministry of Truth Department report at 11 p.m., plus our freakishly busty weather lady has your morning forecast, and our D.C. insider will fill you in on rumors of a potential preemptive Presidential Pardon for The Hon. Jon S. Corzine.


***This Has Been A nBSc Breaking News Alert***

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 05:38 | 2983337 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

California produces a LOT of food

And Texans product a lot of energy ... sounds like a trading opportunity. 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:02 | 2982353 SMG
Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:57 | 2982519 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture













Oh noes ...


It's my crazy uncle from Texas at it AGAIN!


We're going to be thought of as REVOLUTIONARIES on the west and east coast by the major news networks amd newspapers and ALL the **pols** THAT MATTER (like Chris Christie!)



Oh noes!!!!







Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:12 | 2982586's picture

Clean up on aisle 7.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:42 | 2982885 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Funny grrl (you just gotta be female)


'Hounding a man into submission' is a female thing.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:54 | 2982521 knukles
knukles's picture

The SEC's motto!

"Always Trannies"

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:19 | 2982604 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Bingo.  They received more money from the Fed Gov because the first GAVE more money to the Fed Gov.  Funny how that works.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 11:11 | 2983998 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

It's not a premise, it's a fact. When it comes to federal money, the Red states take more than they give, blue states pay more than they get.

I'd love to see Texas try make it on it's own, that would be a good one... 100,000 Texans and about 200 dumb-asses on ZH really haven't thought this one through too well, but that's no surprise. 

Love it or leave it, bitchez, no one's stopping you. Since secession is a pipe dream, I suggest relocating to somewhere in the developing world where there isn't too much socialism for y'all to handle.  Africa is wide open...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:00 | 2982345 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The three best things about Texas: 

 Stevie  Ray   Vaughn

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:35 | 2982453 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Sheeeit. The only thing Texan more overrated than Mr. S.R. Vaughn is Mr. W. Nelson.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:39 | 2982471 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

Curious...Have you ever seen SRV?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:44 | 2982492 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Obviously he's never drank a beer, swung his lady to 'Pride and Joy'... oh, and ya gotta pee standing up.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:02 | 2983108 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Naw, he don't tour much these last 20 years or so. Saw him @ Fitzgerald's in Houston about a million years ago - does that count? BTW, he sucked. Not as bad as *Willie*, but.....

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:41 | 2982476 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Well of course then there's the Texas 'Needed Killin' law.

"Why'd you kill 'em, boy?"

"Judge, he needed killin'."

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:57 | 2982739 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Go back south of the border vato.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:45 | 2982494 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Who the fuck can down vote SRV. I say let them stay New England.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:55 | 2982524 knukles
knukles's picture

And freeze in the dark.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:31 | 2982649 illyia
illyia's picture

New England, home of the American Revolution loves SRV and has whole clubs devoted to him.

Can't stand the weather? Wait a minute.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:43 | 2982688 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

To quote another of the beloved singers...

Just send me to hell or New York City, it would be about the same to me.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 03:03 | 2983187 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Y'all're funny, boys. I'd cheefully bet I'm more Texan - going by # of generations the family's been in the state - than the lot of yew put together. So y'all like the blues, do ya? Ever wonder why? I rather suspect it's because when you were zit-faced teens, the smooth-talkin' manly guy on the cool FM station ("album rock only, man!")....I think you're Stevie Ray/blues fans because the smooth FM guy with the pornstar mustache *told you* it was "totally cool, dudes. Forget Elvis, man: _this_ is the genesis of rock!" And y'all ate it up without question or critical thought. You liked it because you were told to like it.

Saw something similar quite a lot every time the fullers & I made a roadtrip to Austintatious for a 6th St. Saturday night: at the beginning of the school year, it always seemed like you'd hear a lot of the UT freshmen singing the praises of that 'authentic and amazing High Priest of Western Swang, Bob Wills.' "He's still the King, hoss!" After all, Waylon hisself had done gone & told 'em so. You could also spot the month after they'd actually gone & bought a Texas Playboys LP, and gave it a serious listen: no mo' Bob Wills talk. Because while it was the bee's knee's in the '30's, by today's standards, western swang actually (AAHHHH-hawww!). (Life its ownself is like that sometimes) (and I can out-Dan Jenkins any one of you fuckers without breakin' a sweat, for that matter) Oh, they'd never go so far as to bad-mouth Mr. Wills: that might be uncool! The worstest thing EVAR for a stream of rebellious free-thinkers all dressed alike, all drinking Corona, (PBR nowdays, right? What's next? Pearl? Texas Pride? Horsepiss?) all taking identically ultracool paths to Big Hat Texanhood and nonconformity. So it goes with blues, I suspect. But, hey! this is America: y'all listen to whatever overrated musical artist you like (Jimi? Janis? Is that you? How's your mom and them??) and keep telling yourself it's good.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:37 | 2982886 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Dusty Hill, Frank Beard, and Billy Gibbons?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 02:24 | 2983201 vato poco
vato poco's picture

aaaannnnnnnd NOW you're talkin', pard. Also, can anyone 'splain why ZZT makes more in one show than all the blues old fucks/"artists" *combined* make in a year? Is it 'cuz they're sellouts? 'Cuz they play Britney Spears music? No?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:45 | 2982269 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Most of the states have economies and populations near to or even greater than viable singular nations.  What you don't seem to understand is we are 50 different "nations" that agreed to play together as one.  If countries the size of a single U.S. county can survive, than there's no problem with our states breaking off. 

BTW, that little link you provided ignores the simple question of, where did the federal money come from in the first place?  That's right, taxes bitch.



Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:51 | 2982302 ratso
ratso's picture

Turns out that Texas has another size prize to its credit. 

Texas is proving to be the most ridiculously immature state in the union.  

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:25 | 2982623 CH1
CH1's picture

Then you don't mind letting them go, right?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:43 | 2982681 clymer
clymer's picture

haha, bk and ratso - too much. Topics like this always bring out the trolls. Go troll glen becks site, ask him and Hannity to meet up with you tools; you can circle jerk around an obelisk, or a federal building or something. Perhaps at an airport name after a former president / CIA director. You can bring some TSA "officials" in on the party

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:04 | 2982763 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

careful, Glenn Beck has many fans here, lol.

he also has a wiki page that changes every week, pretty funny to watch - today's version notes that he currently leases a home in "the Fort Worth suburb of Westlake Texas" - ruh roh! - and this tidbit that may change soon,

In 1996, while working for a New Haven area radio station, Beck took a theology class at Yale University, with a written recommendation from Senator Joe Lieberman, a Yale alumnus who was a fan of Beck's show at the time.[33] Beck enrolled in an "Early Christology" course, but soon withdrew, marking the extent of his post-secondary education.

now that he's got the magic underwear, I wonder what part he'll play in the unfolding drama. . .

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:02 | 2982979 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

cheers for making my point lads!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 03:08 | 2983239 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Whenever I want to punish myself, I go to Glenn Beck's website and count how many times he's stuck his picture on the front page. One shock to the groin for every Beck mug on the first page.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:54 | 2982727 centerline
centerline's picture

Well, by my count the votes indicate Ratso is a dumbass who doesn't get it.  Funny, because I was talking with someone else tonight about this subject and thier kneejerk reaction was "good riddance."  This came from a normalcy bias suffering baby boomer who voted for Obama because he felt he was better for the markets than Romney in order to keep funding his own retirement - who with a straight face admits nothing will be left in a few years for anyone else  - but still thinks somehow it will all be okay.  lol.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:31 | 2982865 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

America might have voted for Obama, but Texas voted for Rick Perry.  Oooops! 

I believe that is what's called a Mexican Stand-off.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:58 | 2982333 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

dude I could give a buck about farack, you're missing the point.  They spend more than they take in.  The threat to secede is like that broke cousin threating to leave the family.  

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:18 | 2982403 RangerRiley
RangerRiley's picture

Ha Ha. I say good riddance. You can take your share of the debt with you. 

SpongeBob: "We have square dancing, barby-cues... Peas-in-a-can pie and our very own ten-gallon hats."

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:47 | 2982699 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Hey dipshit, what do you think happens when someone leaves the Union? OK, numbnuts, let's try this thought experiment...what happened to all the Soviet debt when the Soviet Union broke apart. Now, imagine the same happens to the U.S. Bingo- no more national debt to be repaid, though granny would really take it up the keister and those who are so used to the welfare checks would need to learn how to pick cotton (no matter what color their skin is- this isn't a racial thing). Those holding FRNs instead of real money- well, they are fucked too.

And why do you think Texas takes in so much money from the Feds? Does it have anything to do with OIL??? 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:09 | 2982738 centerline
centerline's picture

Same answer as to Ratso above.  Amazing how this subject has drawn out the closet morons on this site.  Jesus.  You asshats really define the concept that you get the government you deserve.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:02 | 2982355 Marge N Call
Marge N Call's picture

Holy crap someone who isn't brainwashed!!!!

+1000 Grinder. EXACTLY. It's called the United STATES of America. STATE being NATION-STATE.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:10 | 2982784 centerline
centerline's picture

A Republic.  The concept has been lost.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:48 | 2982286 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You broke the link.

These are the important bits:

Census records show that six of the seven states that amassed more than 25,000 signatures on their petitions to form independent nations in the past week took more than $10 million in revenue from the federal government that year [2010].

The seven states – Texas, Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina – took more than 23 percent of all federal revenue allotted to the states that year.

And I like this a lot too, just for fun:

In addition to the state’s bid to leave, a user named Caleb M. created a petition asking that his home city of Austin be allowed to withdraw from the Lone Star State, while remaining part of the United States. Caleb still needed almost 20,000 signatures to get a response from the White House.

It'd be kinda cool if they had to build a wall around Austin and have whatever was left of "The United States" support them with airlift operations.  From time to time, the native Tejanis might have to smuggle some girl over the wall to get an abortion, or access to birth control.  Hee hee.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:04 | 2982360 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

It's not about "revenue". It's about liberty.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:12 | 2982389 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I know what you mean.

For sure, from a "liberty" perspective, if I ever decide to rape some woman, I want to do it where I'll be assured my unborn offspring would be "free" from her having the right to abort. 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:14 | 2982395 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You ever rape a woman down here in my neck of the woods you won't have to worry about much of anything.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:23 | 2982412 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Heh, yeah.  You're so scary on the innerwebz, tough guy.  I'm sure you're not as intimidating in person.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:39 | 2982452 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Calm down, Mr. Wannabe Rapist. There will be no secession. There will, however, be dissolution - brought about not by choice, but by the cycle of history.

It will not be as fun or as gratifying as clicking on a box on a web page at

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:40 | 2982478 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You're ruining all the mean you DON'T think that was a credible threat from mnewn?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:47 | 2982499 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Think of it not as a threat, but as a warning.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:56 | 2982525 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It's less likely I'd ever want to rape someone than that mnewn would ever have the balls to become a vigilante, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for either.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:18 | 2982600's picture

Then why do you engage in fantasies so compelling that you blurt them out in public?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:42 | 2982685 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I do know one of his fantasies/theories that is false...the one he has about me...I'd love to show him my person, each one has a story ;-)

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:45 | 2983175 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture


too much for me, this fight club Zerohedge homoeroticism

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:01 | 2982539 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No more of a threat than you deciding to rape a woman.

And a threat made by whom? Its more of an observation of cultural facts you fucking freak...try raping a woman anywhere in the small town south (either side of "the tracks") and see how far you get.

Reading comprehension is pretty low up north I take it.

Our northern best & brightest, in all his full conceited glory, looking down its nose at lil ole me...ROTFL!!!

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:14 | 2982593 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Reading mean like understanding what a "hypothetical" is?

I just like taunting you because I know I can make you ANGRY. 

It blows my mind, but I've come to realize you're the type of person who LIKES getting angry, so you should really be thanking me for trolling your dumbass self.  Go tell your friends how you told off some dumb commie yankee on the innerwebz and you can all get a good laugh out of it.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:20 | 2982608's picture

Isn't it just crazy old Republicans who are supposed to base their political rants on rape, rape, rape? Of course I never heard any of them say that they had considered engaging in that activity, hypothetically or otherwise.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:02 | 2982754 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If anyone bases ALL their political rants on rape, I think it's a reasonable cause for concern.

If someone bases ONE of their political arguments on a rape-scenario, I'd give 'em some leeway. 

It doesn't matter *here.*  This is just a monkey-house.  The place is being overrun by the know-nothings, and we're all paying the price.  But at least it keeps people at home and not causing any political trouble or making any real changes in their life, so there's a good reason to tolerate this.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:28 | 2982633 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No "doctor"...

"For sure, from a >>>"liberty" perspective, if I ever DECIDE to rape some woman,<<< I want to do it where I'll be assured my unborn offspring would be "free" from her having the right to abort."

You chose your words poorly, trying to construct a strawman on abortion where no one has mentioned it on this thread...until you.

You even placed yourself in the role of a rapist in order to do it, under the guise of TAKING THE LIBERTY OF A WOMAN.

You're one sick fuck and my friends find nothing laughable about you or your strawman.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:56 | 2982734 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Yeah, I know.  It's about as telling of my true nature as the constant references to being fucked in the ass by a black guy from you and your "conservative" buddies.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:08 | 2982773 nmewn
nmewn's picture

As long as it wasn't rape...I'm gonna guess its what you desire BD.

Any other fantasies you'd like to share?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:13 | 2982792 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You're going lame...I'll bow out at the "I'm rubber, you're glue" tactic, but if you step it up, I'll be glad to come back.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 01:40 | 2983164's picture

nmewm asked if you had any other fantasies and you responded with: "I'll bow out at the "I'm rubber, you're glue" tactic, but if you step it up, I'll be glad to come back."

Paging Dr. Freud, you have a call at the front desk.


Thu, 11/15/2012 - 11:29 | 2984093 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Nah, you're smart enough to understand the context of the discussion to that point. 

Pathetic.  Engage on the ideas, eh?  The whole playing-dumb routine is a bit old coming from you.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 12:39 | 2984403's picture

Since when is providing a Freudian analysis playing dumb? Please try not to get overexcited by the word "analysis."

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:47 | 2984693 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

There's no "analysis," Crock.  That was nothing but a snide comment. 

I'll rewind the conversation because perhaps you really do need some help understanding what happened:

I had pointed out how often we hear posters here chattering about being anally-raped by Obama, and nmewn had responded by suggesting it was a fantasy of MINE, at which point I mentioned that response is sufficiently juvenile to convince me there's no chance of any real discussion here.

You must be thrilled at the opportunity to keep piling on, but this would be a lot more interesting if you'd actually express some thinking about the conflict between "liberty" and "using the police state to prevent medical procedures millions of people want or need."

This all started when nmewn was set off by a point I raised that you guys have continued to evade so far...

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:17 | 2982808 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


You chose your words poorly, trying to construct a strawman on abortion where no one has mentioned it on this thread...until you.

"this thread" - but on all the other RP threads, no one addresses the topic, ever - it's like the choir turns up the volume on the hymns every time anyone questions the faith.

as to the "TAKING THE LIBERTY OF A WOMAN" - wow, just wow.  have we defined what "liberty" a "woman" gets yet? because that's a sacred, secret subject too, apparently.

why is it that only you and crock take up this topic?  even if you both dance around the actual facts, repeatedly. . .

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:34 | 2982873 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ayup, there's the new ZH argument, the silent downarrow strikes again.

sooo boring.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 02:01 | 2983184 Quantum Future
Quantum Future's picture

Cat A.,

I up arrowed on both posts as I support your efforts being the single father of 2 daughterts. I have always encouraged their indpendence and never suggetsed they couldn't accomplish anyting they set their minds and hearts to accomplish.

Being a long time lurker but infrequent poster it is hypocritical to say but if you could share more about the positive aspects of being a woman and parent you may find a more attentive audience - if that matters.


Thu, 11/15/2012 - 04:39 | 2983295 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I appreciate your even "speaking" to me, lol - but more importantly, that you support your daughters, as a father.  I believe it's an important step for a parent to realise that their children are independent in and of themselves, and to encourage them doing whatever they're drawn to, as you say, in their heart.  and as a parent, I'm sure you'll help them temper their heart's desires with practical, adult advice from experience - it's difficult to overcome the cultural stories they're fed about how, as females, their greatest "worth" is in their appearance, and sexuality.  I'm not a parent, but I've been a mentor and counselor to both young females and males - it's important to hear how they view the culture/society they live in, and then work from there, rather than expecting them to see through your (adult, experienced) eyes.  give according to their reality, from your heart. . .

for the record, I don't refer to myself as a "woman" because I believe the culture defines "woman" in a way that harms both "men" (males) and "women" - the cultural standards and expectations of both promote the culture, not the individual human - culture trains the participants in the ways of "advancing" the culture, at the expense of individuality, and each individual's inherent gifts, which are often mocked or belittled.  if you want an example, look at how each culture in the many globally frames their "womanhood" rules - the men are pretty universal at this stage, but look into "woman" both presently, and historically - even the past 75 years in amrka gives a sharp eye/mind MANY clues as to what's going down.

Let your daughters find themselves, support them, advise them, love them - that's my ideal parent.

thanks again, take care.

(oh, and as to a more "attentive" or even receptive audience, I could maybe temper my temper, ha!  but that wouldn't be my voice, which is what it is at this stage. . . most of my sharp edges here are honed for purposes, I take the Fight Club idea more seriously than I do the socialising, even tho' I like the latter with some)

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 02:13 | 2983172's picture


"this thread" - but on all the other RP threads, no one addresses the topic, ever - it's like the choir turns up the volume on the hymns every time anyone questions the faith.


I've discussed this with you repeatedly. But you're antichoice. You don't believe that women might want to consider love or morality when making decisions about life and death. You don't want her loved ones -- especially any men -- to interfere by reassuring her and supporting her and her child. Why do find such simple and humane acts to be objectionable?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 07:53 | 2983386 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They're both delusional.

BD brought up abortion by way of his "taking liberty" with a woman. And Cat has zero restraint when the subject comes up...its like throwing raw meat to a starving

///////////// is delusional and one is a zealot.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:23 | 2985426 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

given that zealot is most often used to describe a religion defender, I'll let you & Crock argue over who best fits that mantle in the Pro-Life stakes.


one person's "zealot" is another's "freedom fighter" - language & labels, everyone gets some.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:14 | 2986080 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I used the word in its broadest sense ;-)

Also, I had expected it would be none other than you, who would be "taking up arms against" someone as brash as to compare the taking of liberty (in this case, the rape of a woman) under the guise of exercising his own liberty.

Which is exactly what he said...then tried to squirm out of it.

You "progressives" never cease to amaze me...yes, labels.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:24 | 2986425 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

you and your co-non-thinker could use a bit of sharp in your non-arguments, but I'll not hold my breath, I've been pointing to this for a year now, and NO ONE has been able to successfully respond beyond, "well, I'm pro-life, anti-abortion, so that's what I vote" - which is FINE, but calling it "libertarian" flavour and then putting a bunch of emotive "liberty, freedom" and group hugs into the threads while pointedly ignoring Sanctity of Life amendments as they continue to EVOLVE is lying, by deliberate omission of facts, lying to yourselves and others.  just like the politicians do daily.

I'll continue to add a post here 'n' there to the group hug threads whenever I'm moved to do it - trust me, I could care less what any of you "believe" about anything, integrity is thin on the ground here of late.

now back to your labels, I realise they help you "think."

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 07:47 | 2987040 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Again Cat, blunderdog ham handedly introduced the topic of abortion by way of of his theoretical rape of a woman.

YOU found nothing in his post worth disagreeing with? Nothing?

I pointed out there are certain communities where such a thing is intolerable and people will take action to make sure the rapists career would be short lived. And he even made the statement under the guise of asserting HIS liberty! It was outrageous!

You are both free to live in the nebulus world you construct for each others amusement. I don't live there.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:37 | 2982463 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Don't think he was talking about a fistfight, more like a .45.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:20 | 2983015 Seer
Seer's picture

For once I found something that I could completely agree with you on...

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 07:59 | 2987045 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Some things are beyond the bounds of decency.

To make a "theoretical" argument of liberty is one thing. To attach his liberty to something ALL societies deem a crime is another.

I know why he did it, to derail the thread. It worked to some degree, which speaks volumes to motive.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:07 | 2982373 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Census records show that six of the seven states that amassed more than 25,000 signatures on their petitions to form independent nations in the past week took more than $10 million in revenue from the federal government that year [2010]."

Yeah, we've got a problem with yankees coming down here and saying shit like..."Thats not the way we do it back home."

You can always tell the native though...he spits in the guys face.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:22 | 2983016 Seer
Seer's picture

Natives?  Mexican, Indian?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 07:26 | 2983388 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Context. Florida Cracker = native...but a couple of drops of Creek if it makes any difference ;-)

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:36 | 2982457 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Uh huh... and how much of that "federal money" qas there because of federal mandates? Like "NO child left educated?" Like "Head start"? And how much of that federal money was SPENT on Federal Mandates that would just go away if Texas were no longer connected to the Federal Money Pit?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:51 | 2982304 kito
kito's picture


perhaps you fail to see the lunacy in having the federal government siphon money away from the states, only to then send it back to the states in the form of pork barrel spending, infrastructure, etc. as if the federal government is doing a favor??????????  

math bkbroiler, math!!!! 

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 20:57 | 2982335 franzpick
franzpick's picture

What's your guess kito?  Do the states get back 5% of what they send over? 10%? Has anyone ever seen the math?

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:03 | 2982357 kito
kito's picture

the best i can find on short notice. texas pays more than it gets.....

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:10 | 2982384 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Maybe so. But look what we get in return - a marvelously violent, overbearing, meddlesome nanny state... and all those swell wars. Best of all, we get to fly the yankee war flag on the 4th.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:23 | 2982615's picture

It takes a village to burn a village in order to save it.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:57 | 2982737 akak
akak's picture

Blobbing-up secessionistic citizenism is a Texan 'american' middle class thing.

Make me laugh!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:05 | 2982983 Jreb
Jreb's picture

I gotta book mark that one.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:26 | 2982838 franzpick
franzpick's picture

How could any state get back more than it pays?  Perhaps by some states sending up more than they receive, while other states receive more than they pay?  If that's happening, the "wealthy, high-tax-paying" state citizens will soon be very discontented to learn which poor states they are subsidizing.  The 10% states VS the 47% states? That's not happening.

Or, aren't all states sending up ton$ in individual, corporate, estate and other taxes and fees, and getting back at best only some small %, after federal government and agency expense, foreign military and foreign aid expense, and other foreign waste and corruption are considered? (NoBama's supporter who received a $22 MIL foreign aid grant - to open several European car dealerships in Russia? Money came from taxes paid by your state. Hello?).

Amazing that no one has done the math that would reveal the aggregate flow of funds from states to wasteful, corrupt and obstructive federal agencies and foreign interests and adventures.

The post-election 4-6% stock market index declines tell me that Mr. Market has decisively won the first debate with Mr. NoBama, and the charts suggest that ongoing debates do not favor the community organizer.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:21 | 2982359 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

let's talk about math

I want my money back. socialists

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:29 | 2982436 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Complete and unadulterated horseshit. You have only two options- you are either a liar or an idiot. This is based on a 2005 Tax Foundations "study" which is so abysmally bad any freshman in a community college would fail for using it, the data is not given and the first source listed is downright fraudulent. Go ahead idiot boy, go to their site and look up what Special Report #158 is that they list as their first source and then for additional laughs look at their methodology. Anyone citing this study is intellectually lazy in the extreme and doesnt have either the intellectual curiosity or horsepower to actually delve into the matter.

Here is the reality:

2010 CFFR report showing exactly which states got what and how much, table 13 has the state data (both overall and broken down)-

2010 IRS data showing how much Federal tax was collected in each state-,-by-Type-of-Tax-and-State,-Fiscal-Year---IRS-Data-Book-Table-5

There are in reality very few states which got soaked for more than they got in 2010. They are as follows 1) New Jersey 37.95 billion 2) Minnesota 23.63 billion 3) Delaware 7.25 billion 4) Nebraska 1.1 billion 5) Illinois 1.07 billion 6) Ohio 34 million

Top net receivers for 2010- 1) Virginia 78.13 billion 2) Florida 75.34 billion 3) California 60.46 billion 4) Maryland 48.59 billion 5) Pennsylvania 44.08 billion 6) DC 43.52 billion

Yeah, lets talk about math but first you need to learn how to do it. By all means crunch the numbers and stop being a fool.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:48 | 2982503 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

This money includes any military bases at the state so that money needs to be factored out

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:05 | 2982557 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

The CFFR report gives total money and broken down by category- Retirement/disability, grants, procurement, salaries, and other.

The "study" regularly used by blithering morons such as the ones above uses total payments for all reasons, so I used the same yardstick.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:07 | 2982567 SILVERGEDDON

All your military are belong to us !

Put some Cheezburger Kat on that.


Duck n cover.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 22:08 | 2982576 nufio
nufio's picture

military spending is government's subtle way of dropping unemployment numbers... dropping military spending will cause a huge spike in unemployment and cause social unrest. it is no differnt that masked welfare to keep the proles in check.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 04:00 | 2983268 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

no difference?  military spending results in people actually doing work being in manufacturing and soldiering and a somewhat over priced product being produced.

Welfare equals video gaming, fat mommas and papas and zero production.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:30 | 2982438 kito
kito's picture

any state that gives more than it gets, and then "gets federal aid" is getting the short end of the stick.... texas has every right to demand secession without being looked upon as hypocrites...............

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:31 | 2982441 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I want my money back on the TSA 1.6 billion hollow point bullet purchase.

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 23:23 | 2982829 BeansBulletsBandaids
BeansBulletsBandaids's picture

I'll take my share in said hollowpoints. pre-fired please.....

Wed, 11/14/2012 - 21:44 | 2982488 fuu
fuu's picture

Umm your shitty chart says Texas gives more than it gets...

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 00:02 | 2982973 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yeah, I was wondering about that too. Notice the whole west coast. Serfs up dude

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!