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Guess What They Are Not Cutting In The Fiscal Cliff...

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

In his farewell address to Congress yesterday, Ron Paul blasted the dangers of what he called 'Economic Ignorance':

"Economic ignorance is commonplace. . . Believers in military Keynesianism and domestic Keynesianism continue to desperately promote their failed policies, as the economy languishes in a deep slumber."

He's dead right. Around the world, economic ignorance abounds. And perhaps nowhere is this more obvious today than in the senseless prattling over the US 'Fiscal Cliff'.

Here's the deal: You may remember the Debt Ceiling debacle of 2011. At the time, the US government was about to breach its debt ceiling, and there was an embarrassing standoff between Congress and President Obama.

As part of their eventual compromise, the debt ceiling increased by $400 billion in August 2011... then again by another $500 billion five weeks later... and finally by another $1.2 TRILLION twenty weeks after that.

In return, President Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011. The law stipulates that, unless another compromise is reached, a series of tax increases and budget cuts will automatically take place on January 1, 2013, including the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the temporary 2% payroll tax holiday, plus new taxes related to Obamacare.

They call this the 'Fiscal Cliff' because everyone is terrified that all the budget cuts and new taxes will bring the US economy to its knees once again.

I've spent days analyzing the bill... and frankly, it's a joke. You can read the 200+ pages yourself if you like, but here are the important points--

As we've discussed before, US government spending falls into three categories.

  1. Discretionary spending is what we normally think of as 'government.' It funds everything from the military to Homeland Security to the national parks.
  2. Mandatory spending covers all the major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.
  3. Then there's interest on the debt, which is so large they had to make it a special category.

The latter two categories are spent automatically, just like your mortgage payment that gets sucked out of the bank account before you have a chance to spend it. The only thing Congress has a say over is Discretionary Spending. Hence the name.

But here's the problem-- the US fiscal situation is so untenable that the government fails to collect enough tax revenue to cover mandatory spending and debt interest. In Fiscal Year 2011, for example, the US government spent $176 billion MORE on debt interest and mandatory spending than they generated in tax revenue.

In Fiscal Year 2012, which just ended 6 weeks ago, that shortfall increased to $251 billion. This means that they could cut the ENTIRE discretionary budget and still be in the hole by $251 billion.

This is why the Fiscal Cliff is irrelevant. The automatic cuts that are going to take place don't even begin to address the actual problem; they're cutting $110 billion from the discretionary budget... yet only $16.9 billion from the mandatory budget.

Given that the entire problem is with mandatory spending, slashing the discretionary budget is pointless. It's as if the US economy is a speeding train heading towards a ravine at 200 mph, and the conductors are arguing about whether they should slow down to 150 or 175.

Oh, and there's just one more problem.

The government thinks that they will collect a few hundred billion dollars more in tax revenue when all of these new taxes kick in. Again, wishful thinking.

In the six+ decades since the end of World War II, tax rates in the US have been all over the board. Yet during this time, the US government has only managed to collect roughly 17.7% of GDP in tax revenue.

Conclusion? Increasing taxes won't increase their total tax revenue. Politicians have tried this for decades. It doesn't work. The only way to increase tax revenue is for the economy to grow... and higher tax rates do not pave this path to prosperity.

Ron Paul was spot on. Economic ignorance abounds. And all the Talking Heads in the mainstream media blathering away about the Fiscal Cliff are only reinforcing his premise.

Bottom line-- the Fiscal Cliff doesn't matter. The US passed the point of no return a long time ago. 

 


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Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks Captain Obvious.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Future Tense
Future Tense's picture

If they are not cutting mandatory spending then the gold bull market will stay in tact. Good discussion here on the current supply/demand dynamics in the gold market. Hint: massive demand with little supply growth.

http://www.ftense.com/2012/11/the-gold-bull-market-where-do-we-go.html

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

we fell off cliff long time ago and are essentially dead in purgatory stumbling around in the dark netherworld to see how bad hell will be for us all. god can't help us and we are satan.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Fleecer
Fleecer's picture

Next step will be to "fix" the entitlements liabilities by converting SS and Medicare/caid to more of a "defined contrib" plan (versus inflation protected defined benefit). Then let the "inflate the problem away" begin in ernest via printing press. Higher incomes follow, higher taxes...even higher GDP. Hey, looks its fixed!

Oh, you have to live on an inflation adjusted $300/mo in retirement? And market limped along for 20 years... Tough shit. Govt kept their end of the deal.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Hey Simon ~ When Thelma & Louise drive off the fiscal cliff, doesn't the T-Bird wind up in New Zealand or something?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:58 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

The now infamous phrase was coined by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke in February 2012, during one of his required appearances before Congress on the state of the U.S. economy. He described ... "a massive fiscal cliff of large spending cuts and tax increases" on Jan. 1, 2013.

Fitting that Bernanke came up with the term...

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

1 go short

2 buy gold

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:15 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The debt ceiling is right around the corner too. Last time the debt ceiling came around, they came up with mandatory spending cuts and takes hikes to be implemented in the future, a.k.a. "The Fiscal Cliff."

What's their excuse going to be this time to raise the debt ceiling? They certainly can't create a "Fiscal Cliff 2" any more. The fiscal farce is done. The party is over. Things are going to get pretty dicey.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:23 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What's everybody wasting their time on a Simon Black post for anyway when you can "ooh & aah" over perhaps the best GOAL in history...

~~~

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1227295/ibrahimovic-strike-hailed-as-one-of-greatest-goals-ever?cc=5901

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Ibrahimovic is a genius.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

We are not going off the cliff. We are already at the base of the cliff where we landed when they took the Gold Standard out of underneath us, and five hundred thousand tons of wet mud (inflation) are hurling down on us at breakneck speed. Run for it

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Fiscal Cliff = $700 Trillion Derivatives Blowing Up!

Lets get this party started.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:15 | Link to Comment koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

Aahh ha! Real football!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment tsx500
tsx500's picture

wow, u weren't kidding !    (although, just a bit OT maybe ?)

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

"They certainly can't create a "Fiscal Cliff 2" any more."

Are you kidding? Anything that gets ratings this high is bound to have a sequel.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

The girl they get to blow the boss this time had better be hotter than that pig they got last time. If I am going to be distracted, can't they afford to get a hottie.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

When the debt ceiling comes, they'll cut a couple hundred billion out of the annual budget before they raise the debt ceiling. They wont be fooled setting up another fiscal cliff again. I used to struggle a little with zerohedge understanding some of the complicated economic bullshit and abbreviations and it was good to get news before it reached mainstream, if it ever reached mainstream. Now it's getting simple. Increasing taxes doesn't increase revenue? I don't think that even qualifies as complicated economic bullshit. It seems similar to states seceding and being better off without the reserve currency, like Greece. I bet tax revenues went down when they cut social security and income tax by hundreds of billions of dollars. It'd be easy to look it up and do the math, but I wont bother. I'll hold my breath and take my football and go home.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

It's impossible to have job growth in the USA because of the globalist world trade treaties the USA signed on to. Get over it already.

I will never see a MSM article asking;

Are US Trade Treaties Hindering Job Growth?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:54 | Link to Comment HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

That will be the cause of the collapse. The corporations love $200 a month labor. The corporations own congress. They actually want to have corporate taxes on profits reduced so they can bring profits home. According to them that's what is standing in the way of jobs coming back and the government being fully funded again. Workmans comp and liability insurance is more than what the Chinese charge. They want to double the value of the Chinese currency, not to help factories come back(like it would matter) but so they can double the profits that they are currently holding in foreign currency, while our prices at Walmart and the gas station double. It needs to collapse but we need to run up the credit card as far as we can. Get some warehouses full of commodities over here. Like the banks and feral reserve would approve that though, they aren't even American.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I'm getting real sick and tired of the Illuminati and secrete societies pulling their shit on us century in and century out.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 02:52 | Link to Comment Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Just how old are you anyway?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:03 | Link to Comment old naughty
old naughty's picture

Thelma & Louise drive T-Bird wind up in New Zealand? 

You wish...

More like at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

It was actually at the bottom of the Colorado River near the town of Moab Utah right outside of Canyonlands national park.  Also, the producers had to send three different cars to their demise because the first two takes didn't turn out correctly.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Is Obama responsible for this too? Here's another great reason for session.

Psychological mind control terrorist tactic psyop warfare, on American citizens, is alive and growing.  We need to bring criminal charges against the mainstream media,  Agenda 21 pushers, and others.

Move to change propaganda laws opens up Cold War argument

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/05/move-to-change-propaganda-laws-opens-up-cold-war-argumen/

Congress Reconsiders Domestic BBG Ban

http://rwonline.com/article/congress-reconsiders-domestic-bbg-ban-/215028

New Bill Would Make It Legal To Target Propaganda And “Psychological Operations” Directly At U.S. Citizens

http://www.infowars.com/new-bill-would-make-it-legal-to-target-propaganda-and-psychological-operations-directly-at-u-s-citizens

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

There is an easier "fix" than "fixing" entitlements. There are several trillion dollars just sitting in 401(k) accounts. It would be easy - a politically cowardly kind of easy - to nationalize those accounts.

Actually, I'm a little surprised Dear Leader didn't mention nationalizing 401(k) accounts during the campaign as another way of getting revenge on "the rich."

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:27 | Link to Comment ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

I am thinking the same thing. 401(k)'s get nationalized or inflation gets so bad that the dollars in that account become worthless. Either way you get it from behind.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:49 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

That's not funny.

Seriously.  Stop giving them ideas like that.  They have plenty of bad ones already lined up without you helping them out.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:21 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Would not a better metphor than "fiscal cliff" be speeding towards the "wall of reality"?  I know, less dramatic and may confuse the dunderheads with facts.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:28 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

It's kind of like the world is one big Wile E. Coyote. It's only time before enough people look down.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

With secession signatures, people should pledge to buy nothing this Christmas season.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:16 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Abandon all hope ye who enter here - Dante A.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:38 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If they are not cutting mandatory spending then Granny still gets her Social Security and Medicare, and there is no reason not to shut the thing down until they get their budget in order, which would actually allow them to raise the debt ceiling in the interim while they come up with a plan to fix entitlement spending.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Dan Conway
Dan Conway's picture

Buy AAPL?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

We went over the fiscal cliff a llllonnggg time ago.

 

What's coming up is the fiscal SPLAT.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

Don't forget the Baumgartner Acceleration factor!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:38 | Link to Comment tsx500
tsx500's picture

http://youtu.be/1WdpwGq9f3A GO TO 1:35 mark in video to see where Amerikka is right now

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment dbTX
dbTX's picture

I think it will be more like a PHYSICAL splat.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

WHEN GOD DAMNIT??????!!!!!!  Our (not for the majority around here) economic ignorance has allowed for Wil E Coyote to air walk for nearly 4 years now, as the bankster class is fed copious amounts of digital floating fiat.  I know the Japan argument,as they are about the unveil their 1 QUADRILLION in Yen fiat injections, but wonder if the paper machinations of the central banks will just keep plugging up holes.  It is astounding.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:26 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Not really Doc.

I was involved with a company that went bankrupt long ago.

It dragged on, and on, for three years before the creditors finally

had enough and wound the company up.

Astounding is correct, as to how long it can take.Then suddenly POOF ,and

its gone.Just as you got complacent that it wouldn't.

The wheels turn glacially slowly,then around too fast to see.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:48 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Absolutely.  Just like insolvent companies borrowing from one account to pay another.  The game can go on as long as there is cash flow (some sort of minimum velocity in the finances).  Even promises and lies can extend the game.  The funny thing is that when the situation grinds down to it's lowest level, the screeching halt can happen in an instant.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:05 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

it takes a while...especially for an empire.

look at greece and how they are able to drag things along.

 

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I think the 'fuckit' moment is not that far off now.

Maybe a couple of years until our creditors say "fuckit", and take

the hit,if indeed they are really creditors(another story).

In the meanwhile ABCD;

Anything Bernanke Cannot Destroy.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:36 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

well China already said fuckit we will make reminbi the world reserve instead of dollars

IMF already said fuckit and they have SDRs

Iran said fuckit we will trade oil in Euros

Libya said fuckit Africa will have gold backed African Union currency.

 

but American

(1) has those big bad guns and fuck creditors over.

(2) trying to perma-fuck biggest creditor China over by letting them crash like Japan while they are young.

(3) fucked up Libya

(4) going to fuck Iran

 

Same shit Nazis did to their creditors.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:56 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I think China, Russia, and Iran will have China call in US debt unless the West leaves Iran alone.

China is in a position to Dump the US if we do not behave.

It is up to China, Russia, the US and Europe to all contain the more rabid muslim elements. They are going to find out how stupid they are trying to fight each other.

Common sense co-operation would solve the problems, but, since that is too easy, it won't happen.  Once again, civilians will pay the price along with military.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:35 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I truly don't believe that China holds any long term UST's anymore.

Maybe on paper ,but in reality.Hmmm.

They've had four years preparing for demise of the US banking system.

Incompotence would be a mild word to describe no active planning for what is

the obvious endgame here.The PBOC is not incompetent.

Pledged as collateral or sold secretly to the FedRes off balance sheet.

Uncle Sam would play along to avoid panic .

Just what I'd do if I was the PBOC, and I'm sure they have other tricks as well.

The countdown starts the moment they have an alternate to SWIFT up and running.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:47 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

3 years? I worked for a company didn't pay it's bills for a couple months and one fine morning when I went to work the bank had locked the doors and shut them down. Of course, that was 1983. Boy have things changed.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

It was in the UK back in the 80's.

A 50 year old company ,which got it a lot of  underserved credibility

to keep trading while insolvent.Very long term relationships with

suppliers,etc.Had the Sheriff of London on first name terms after 

monthly visits taking 'walking posession" of the plant and stock on behalf

of alternating  creditors.I bought their factory premises at a very good price.

I had a plant  right next door to them.Facinating, in a ghoulish way, to watch.

 

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture

 

    I've said that at least trice...I think!

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Just remember, health care is a right, so no matter what happens, you will always have health care. No one can take that away.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:32 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

lol, so when they shoot you for protesting austerity, just remembered you're covered.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:44 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

keep slaves alive.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:28 | Link to Comment ilovefreedom
ilovefreedom's picture

One of the best quotes on this sort of topic was made by Reagan about Social Security.

Basically, Social Security is like jumping off a 100 story building and when you pass the 50th floor on the way down saying, "This isn't so bad!"

But of course it isn't the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop and splat at the bottom.

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:00 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

what does it really matter how we define or clasify the spending...    spending is spending...   the U.S. government is captured by a ponzi syndicate that prints money out of thin air and charges the taxpayers interest.  everything else bullshit until you fix this.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

The US government IS the ponzi syndicate, and it captures everything that can help it grow, first of all the banking system and the media complex.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment tango
tango's picture

While this may be true (ponzu scheme to beg, borrow and steal) the truth is simpler. Economic policy is driven by sheer expediency without a thought as to the consequences of our foolish actions. The current mess is not seen as a pending disaster of epic proportions but as the norm. The political, intellectual and media class has convinced itself this charade can continue forever as long as no one admits it.

Paul said in '08 that unless we redefine the role of the State, nothing will change. Six trillion dollars later, dependence and subservience are worse than ever.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yes, john39, I agree that the most important problem, the source of the reasons why the USA has already driven off a cliff, and is now falling, while saying, "so far, so good" is that the U.S. government is captured by a Ponzi syndicate that prints money out of thin air and charges the taxpayers interest.

I think it is important to look at the steps taken before that by the International Banksters to corrupt Congress, in order to demonetize silver, back in the 1870s, which are not so well-known as the Fed is now, which Ron Paul has succeeded in making way more people aware of now, than ever before! The demonetization of silver, back then, was the beginning of the end, in the sense of making the word "money" take on meanings that became the opposite of what money originally meant! A plain reading of history, and the American constitution, indicates that "money" should have meant gold and silver, which could have been represented by paper, but should still have been backed by the real existence of that gold and silver. Since silver is sufficiently plentiful, it would have been possible to have sufficiently plentiful a supply of money. However, the International Banksters were able to bribe the government, to stop silver from being money, which then allowed only gold backed money, which was too limited. Of course, later, that process of corrupting Congress, and all the other branches of government, picked up speed thereafter. THAT is the reason WHY the USA has rushed over a fiscal cliff, and indeed, has already driven over, but not quite hit whatever is at the bottom of that cliff yet.

Therefore, john69, I also totally agree that everything else bullshit until you fix this. However, the PROBLEM is that, after you face the reasons how and why it was possible for the banksters to take over the government of the USA, and drive that government to progressively do everything more and more BACKWARDS, in every possible opposite direction to what the Constitution was supposed to do, one ends up with NO PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS!

Sure, it is relatively easy to come up with good theoretical solutions, on a superficial level. However, the REALITY is the runaway triumph of the methods of organized crime taking over almost complete control of the USA, which is analogous to a "home invasion" of the American Family, by a gang of criminals, that now control that Family's finances. The depth of that problem is unfathomable, since that problem exists due to the triumph of huge lies, backed by violence, controlling everything in the short-term, while any longer term considerations have NO PRACTICAL WAYS to stop that from continuing to automatically get worse and worse, faster and faster.

I have been wasting my time for several decades to think about the problems that you correctly identified, that there is legalized counterfeiting, and that the other political problems are relatively trivial, and therefore, every other set of solutions proposed are bullshit, unless there was a way to stop the private banks from being able to continue to legally counterfeit, and thereby control, the money supply. THAT PROBLEM IS ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE WORSE THAN ALL OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS COMBINED, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS THE ROOT DRIVING CAUSE BEHIND ALL OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS!

I feel that I have been "wasting my time" to think about that because the unavoidable conclusions are that there are NO REALISTIC WAYS to stop that from continuing. The necessary theory to do so would have to be based on understanding how and why government IS organized crime, controlled by the best organized criminals. The necessary theory would have to NOT propose the impossible ideals of stopping that from happening. The necessary theory would have to be able to develop ways to do that better.

Those necessary theoretical ideas are practically impossible, because too many Americans want to continue to believe in impossible ideals, and want to continue to propose political solutions that are miraculously based on those impossible ideals. In order to understand how and why the American financial systems were systematically perverted to become totally backwards to what they were supposed to be, we need to start looking at what that system was supposed to be as a set of impossible ideals, which never really existed, and never could really exist.

The REALITY is that money is backed by murder, and those who were the best at committing murders, and getting away with that, actually control the monetary systems. The only realistic and practical solutions would have to be based on accepting those central FACTS, and then attempting to do that better. Like I said, that idea appears have been a waste of time to understand and develop, because people do not like that! Therefore, what is ACTUALLY going to happen is that the REAL combined money/murder system is going to get unimaginably worse, not better.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT the U.S. government is captured by a Ponzi syndicate that prints money out of thin air and charges the taxpayers interest. AND, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT everything else bullshit until you fix this. HOWEVER, TO FIX THAT REQUIRES UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

MONEY IS BASED ON ROBBERY, BACKED BY THE ULTIMATE FORM OF ROBBERY, WHICH IS MURDER. Those who were the best at actually doing that were the international banksters, that we able to covertly take control of the government of the USA through applying the methods of organized crime on the largest possible scale. BUT, BUT, BUT, the only solutions which make theoretical sense are do that better!  All "solutions" that are based on totally stopping that from happening are just more bullshit!

Those who advance idealistic solutions continue to fail, because they continue to propose what is actually nonsense, because everything they suggest as "solutions" is always more impossible to exist ideals, based on false fundamental dichotomy views of the world, which are not connected to reality, except in the ways that transcendental poetry can be "connected" to reality.

Obviously, what I am saying is a waste of time, for reason after reason! The real world is already controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, driving everything over a cliff, since everything is controlled by huge lies, which only worked because they are backed up with violence, but which otherwise are not correct, and therefore, control things more and more in ways that are not connected to reality, because those wrong ideas, which are huge lies, result in controlling civilization in ways that are becoming more and more insane everyday. HOWEVER, while those doing that are the best at continuing to lie, and backing their lies up with violence, almost the entire "opposition" to that are goofball reactionary revolutionaries, whose "solutions" are bullshit, because they deliberately refuse to propose ways to "fix" these problems that are consistent with their own analysis!

THE PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO ORGANIZED CRIME CONTROLLING GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS ORGANIZED CRIME. THE ONLY THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE GOOD SOLUTIONS WOULD BE FOR MORE CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE MEMBERS OF AN ORGANIZED CRIME GANG. THE ONLY GOOD SOLUTIONS WOULD REQUIRE THOSE CITIZENS TO DIRECT A BETTER MURDER SYSTEM, TO OPERATE A BETTER MONEY SYSTEM.

As long as too few citizens understand that, then the best covertly operating gangs of criminals will continue to effectively control the public government, and thereby have the power to continue to drive the whole system, by steering that according to their huge lies. They have already driven that system over a cliff, as far as the insane financial numbers, as runaway debt insanity, already demonstrate. That is already going to eventually crash at some kind of bottom (although where the "bottom" is to the final collapse of global electronic fiat money frauds, backed by atomic bombs, may be is still impossible to know.)

But nevertheless, all that reality will continue to do is slap us in the face, to perhaps get our attention? What will actually happen is that the reality will continue through its real trajectory. The reality is that there is a combined money/murder system, and nothing can fix the money problems that does not address and fix the murder problems at the same time. BOTH THE MONEY SYSTEM AND THE MURDER SYSTEM ARE CONTROLLED BY HUGE LIES! BOTH WILL BE CORRECTED, EVENTUALLY, BY MORE RADICAL TRUTH. HOWEVER, THAT RADICAL TRUTH IS NOT THAT THERE CAN BE NO SUCH SYSTEMS AT ALL.

Almost all the "opposition" to the established system in the USA is based on correct analysis of the social facts regarding the existing money and murder systems, followed by collapse to bullshit solutions based on fixing those problems through applying impossible ideals that those systems should not exist at all. Therefore, no realistic and practical ways appear to fix the problems, but only more and more bullshit!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Alhazred
Alhazred's picture

Support Ron Paul
End the Fed

http://wh.gov/XWkP
http://wh.gov/XWkP
http://wh.gov/XWkP

... I'm just saying.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:22 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

It amuses me when people suggest to support Ron Paul..  Don't get me wrong. I agree with a lot of what he says.

But, I live in a solid blue state. That means all electoral votes in my state automatically went to Obama. My vote (for president) didn't count or matter.. Knowing that I checked the box for Gary Johnson because I was to lazy to write in Ron Paul.

Now, Had Ron Paul used the opportunity he had during the national debates and gone full blown batshit crazy I would have voted for him. During the debates, at every speech, every interview he could have easily articulated the connection from:
 Goldman Sachs -> Hank Paulson -> Treasure Sec. -> 2008 Bank Bailout.
        -> Jon Corzine -> MF Global -> Primary Dealer of the FED -> Ben Bernanke
                          |-> Gov. New Jersey, and Obama's 2008 campaign financier.

He didn't

Had he further articulated how Goldman Sachs helped Mitt Romney balloon his wealth through tax evasion and insider trading by managing his blind trust, I'd of voted for him.. 

He didn't

Can't really say I blame him. The powers that be would literally kill him for speaking such truth. But history would have remembered Ron Paul as a true Patriot and Statesman. Like J.F.K.

Instead Ron Paul went to Florida where the GOP decided to stop counting votes for him..
Now He's retiring, passing his family's political direction to his son, Rand Paul.

Who supported Mitt Romney..

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Ron Paul was acting like a gentleman in a free-for-all street brawl during those primaries.

He needed to fight at their level using the information he probably has on his opponents.

He wouldn't have had to make anything up. The truth would have been bad enough.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:51 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

War for drugs, oil and empire? 

and the afghan strains

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:30 | Link to Comment CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

You're welcome. ;)

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Badabing
Badabing's picture

What Fiscal Cliff?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:41 | Link to Comment BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

Now is the time for a Cliff Richard CD called ''Songs In The Black Hole'' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosCYE4vwlY

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 22:24 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

BOTH parties have decided it is in their BEST interests, to allow the FALL.

This will bring in massive new taxes, and the GOP will blame the Dems, and vice versa.

Also, the worst part of this, is it will be RETROACTIVE to cover 2012.So, you lose(not just the 250k and over(60million more) all deducts except Mortgage Interest.

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment madcows
madcows's picture

quit scaring the children.  all is well.  sleep tight little one. Daddy Benny loves you very much.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:54 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Problem with Daddy Benny is that he molest them while sleeping. The Federal Reserve is full of financial child molesters. 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment old naughty
old naughty's picture

Geewez...I am still counting on him to play Santa next month..

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture
Before we jump into the notion of Secession, which implies that everyone who is barking about our political and economic condition, and who subscribes to such a notion, actually has the guts and sack to follow through on that threat in order to protect the beloved Nation States in which each of us reside... If you pride yourself on being courageous enough to move toward Secession, than why not consider this instead...

Each of the States that are considering Secession, ought rather to form a coalition of States, who are willing to stand up, and turn their backs on the Federal Government of the United States, and declare it "defunct" and "insolvent", not only because of its abuses of power, but because of its rich history of demonstrating its propensity to squander our Nation's wealth and riches. That coalition of Nation States ought therefore in cooperation and tandem with one another, and all "the People" of each of those "Sovereign Nation States", to "withdraw all funding" to the Federal Government, and let it go into free fall, and collapse upon itself, thereby dissolving the diseased portion of our political system, and letting the Cockroaches scatter...

They should also make an agreement to ban all political officials, who were governing officials under the former Federal Government, from ever holding public office again in any of the several States of the Union, including the criminals of the IRS and the Federal Reserve System of Banks...Banning any and all NGO's Nongovernmental Officials and Officies such as The CFR, The Bilderburg Group, Tri-Lateral Comm., AIPAC and most importantly the ever Criminal United Nations/NATO

There is no need to secede from the Union, so long as a remedy and solution such as this exists... So don't get your shorts in a bundle... Let the Union continue to exist, but purge out that which is diseased and gangrenous.

Let us not be so puny in our thinking, with respect to our options, in terms of what are viable remedies to our political condition... There are many peaceful solutions we haven't even explored of yet, that would be helpful in maintaining the Union, rather than dissolving it.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:22 | Link to Comment NooooB
NooooB's picture

Pretty much any time anyone has used the word "purge" in any type of political context things did not go well.

What's funny is that you actually sound reasonable; Yeah, don't seced, stupid, that would never work! (Put the gun in your EAR. Not your mouth!) Just change tax laws and all the ways things are done (apparently with your mind) and go for being Europe of fifty years ago... Brilliant! Someone give this man a lobotomy! And quick sterilization!

Yes... Let's not be so puny in our thinking...

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:18 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Good idea. We could call it the Confederate States of America.

Wait, wasn't that tried before?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:22 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I guess the better question is why would the rest of the country be so desperate to keep the union intact that they would take arms against their neighbors?  This, in and of itself, shows a sick desperation for power.  At the end of the day, if two people want a divorce, we need to give it to them instead of forcing them to live out their days in misery.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:50 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Damn right... I just wanna sit on my fat ass and elicit inspired but useless blather on ZH all day.
Revolt, my ass.
That's for crazies.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Muppet
Muppet's picture

The one thing the Government is prepared for is civil unrest.   Citizens would be culled severely.   The numerous underground military bases (UMBs) like Chicago's deep tunnel, and below Denver airport, stand at the ready to detain huge number of citizens and get them off the street.    I'm sure DHS/FEMA has a well oiled plans to swiftly and efficiently sieze the citizenry with very little upset to those allowed to stay.  

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

i think it will actually happen due to events beyond federal control.  the feds can't even handle hurricanes.

no, the varoius states will form connections due to dire necessity.

nobody wants to see it happen, but it will.

each state can run on  its own constitution, which are copies of the original.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:40 | Link to Comment ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

The Senate being appointed by the various governors was supposed to fill this function.  Now that they are all elected, the states have no real representation.  I'm looking for more zero's to start showing up on my pocket money soon.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 22:43 | Link to Comment Muppet
Muppet's picture

If this starts in the Southwest we can call it the Burro-zone.    The breakup of the Burro-zone.  

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment nantucket
nantucket's picture

what are these "taxes" you speak of?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

"Maria, when was the last time you ate a ding dong?"

CNBC journalism at its finest.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Did Maria answer something about tag teaming Uncle Warren with Becky in a bath?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Were they talking about bakery treats or manly meats?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:59 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I wrap my ding ding in a Ding Dong to appease my wife and her love of fauz-chocolate.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:55 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Oh, that was the night when I came home drunk with Arnhould and his ding dong slipped out of his pant leg and we tripped over it and......

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Don't worry, the people just re-elected Bagger Vance! Nothing can go wrong.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:01 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I hear His Majesty just rolled up to Rockaway Beach, NYC.

He said he couldn't do anything about that disaster, but he did pass out wheelbarrows for the next one. 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

An all the little chillins' began singin' "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" bringin' dem barrows back home to momma...

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:00 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Economic ignorance abounds....whereas before, Economic hubris overflew  the flood gates.

When the horse has bolted we have two choices : close the barn door and eat humble pie; or leave it open and hope he returns in the night.

Now its a little late to talk of economic ignorance when greed and hopium have pushed us to the brink. Better to have a drink than think, the void will always be there. Act now, nationalise the banks and shut down the ponzi market. Save what can be saved. Don't leave the paranoid parasites eat more of the meager cake. 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

'Fiscal Cliff' my ass.  This is theatre to keep the masses entertained, and provide something to argue about.  When push comes to shove, there'll be no tax increases, and no spending cuts.  Why bother when the global system is so fucked up that they can monetize to infinity without (visible) consequence.  Fuck them all and their 'fiscal cliff' fairytale.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

fiscal cliff is where you push banksters and politicians off to fix society.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Fiscal Cliff is not a fairytale. What the USA has been living with the benefit of deficits and a reserve crrency is the real fairytale.

At some point the world will shriek with horror when it fully comprehends that the US is really a gigantic version of Greece.

At that point every stock market will autoatically shut down along with every bank and ATM while police, tanks, drones and the army swing into action, whilst the airforce starts to spray some kind of calming agent from the skies.

The world is about to change because we have all refused to change.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

The "fiscal cliff" is a mirage, to make something look more like a political challenge and less like a mathematical one. Because the former can be screwed up simply as business-as-usual while the actual crisis -- having no resolution at all ever -- is swept under the rug.

The US Congress is now running in terror. We go into the coming darkness without leadership at any level, and now everything is set to burn.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:06 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Its as obvious a total psyop as this BULLSHIT about all the top generals suddenly caught up in a sophomoric Animal House style 'He's boinkin her behind her back' bunch of rubbish....watch this hand while the other is punching you in the face.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:18 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

US Marines don't get pension if they are caught in adultry

while the leadership get to double dip military pension + CIA pension and have misstresses ghostwrite biographies to make even more money.

 

Time for US military to take out their own corrupt leadership.

 

revolutions start when soldiers, police, and workers unite.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:40 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If the administration is willing to go to great lengths to remove brass and intelligence officials, then I'm not sure we really want to get rid of the officials...  too many secrets and we have no idea who knows what and who is on what side.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

The fiscal cliff show the are putting on now is nothing more than a bad play with bad actors. Its amazing how the news has forced this as the issue upon us.

They won't do anything except play kick the can again. All the while the sheeple think they are "working on somthing" isnt that great. There is nothing to work on. But if they convince

the public there is something to work on, that could fix this, they can keep the can roll-roll-rolling a little longer, until it doesnt anymore.

I heard a good statement the other day, can't remember who said it.

The potential fix is so far in the rear view mirror now, never to be seen again.

 

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:06 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I think they are trying to make this into a political "debate" precisely because if you look at it mathematically there is no solution.  Well, there is one, exponential growth at a rate greater than the aggregate inflation, but that doesn't work out so well in the finite world.

If people actually wanted to solve this issue, they would have to identify the problem and trace it back to it's roots.

And then the fractional reserve banksters would be a scramblin for the airfield.

So instead it is made out to be a political issue, and then it can be solved by smoke, mirrors, and government/FED expansion of the amount of aggregate debt so the system can continue to function.

pods

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:27 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

solution is an empire which what US has

export inflation by forcing other commodity producers to eat inflation by trading in dollars

all the dirty stuff happens overseas so Americans see fake exponential growth.

 

empire end in the end, but not without nasty wars externally and internally...and they do last for decades if not centuries.

 

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Whats wrong, an angry perma-bull in the house downvoting everyone? 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

We are being droned

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:51 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

10 to 1 it's Steve Liesman.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Totin
Totin's picture

Thanks Simon (srs). That was a really good summary.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:46 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Fuck's sake, it is not a good summary. If Simon doesn't know that Congress has just as much say over mandatory spending as they do discretionary spending, then he is a moron or simply thinks he can mail in bullshit drivel like this from, where is it today? Chile? Switzerland? His rectum?

I'll use small words: any law that Congress can pass, like mandatory spending, can be undone with the same action. Passing a funding bill for discretionary spending is an affirmative action, meaning a bill must pass each side of Congress, then be reconciled if they are different and then be sent to the President to enact. Passing a bill to change any mandatory spending item follows the exact same path and has the same barriers to over come.  No more and no less.

Giving Congress the slack and excuse of making it seem impossible to change mandatory programs is more hand wringing bullshit. Stop thinking of there being a distinction between mandatory and discretionary programs as far as making any changes goes.

Note: I understand that what happens when reforms can't pass is very differently for the two types, but that difference in each's static condition is not the same as saying the path to making changes is different.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Totin
Totin's picture

The article didn't address what Congress could and couldn't do. Just the current and potential state of events.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:12 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Maybe you should reread the 9th graf:

"The only thing Congress has a say over is Discretionary Spending."

And the bold was his, not mine.

He is saying Congress can't do anything about mandatory spending, which is as false as it gets. They can pass a law and change it the same way the created it and the same way they deal with the discretionary programs.  There is no higher or different barrier to action.

Repeating this bullshit gives Congress the cop out that their hands were tied. Fuck them and fuck whoever enables them. If that includes you, then fuck you too.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

Damn straight. Well said, sir.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 00:13 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

i think you'd find yourself more comfortable rooting for israel in the other threads.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Shh.  You're kinda making it sound a bit like this isn't all Obama's fault. 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:15 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

The President, no matter who it is, gets vastly too much blame and credit. And Congress, no matter who controls it, gets not nearly enough.

 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:06 | Link to Comment H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

Fiscal Cliff makes my GOLDEN "parachute" look better everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

With silver cords

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:06 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Don't cut my cheese bro!

pods

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:44 | Link to Comment somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

Since when was it *your* cheese, jackwagon?  Did *you* milk the cow?  Did *you* drive the cheez-mobile to market?  Was it *you* who stocked the shelves at the Quik-E-Mart?

 

Or did you just sign up for the gub'mint kase?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Oh, you got me.  I am a fan of the government.  

pods

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Rathmullan
Rathmullan's picture

what they aren't cutting? They won't cut the coke, for it's that which allows them to feel they can pretty much get away with anything. Mandatory drug test congress now!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Won't cut the coke? Are you smoking dope? Those guys are cutting lines of coke all day and night long.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

You'd catch very few failing a drug test. Do a blood alcohol test any time votes run past 7pm, however, and you'd almost be able to create a new majority from those blowing above the driving limit.

No joke.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

'Economic Ignorance' ... let's not be so picky, ignorance itself is a catastrophe. Ignoring the facts is the first blow to basic intelligence.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

Nice ramp / stick save at the end there

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:20 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Kevin was Johnny on the Spot today.  He's the only one who can save OpEx.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They're going to 'cut spending' LOL yea sure....I remember the last time they did this and the 'GRAND CUTS' came in at 1/4 million dollars or something. We're now going into debt at $9 billion per day just to keep this clownshow running at the pathetic state its in now....the USPS loses $250,000 daily...they'll never make a 'cut' thats any more significant than a BB against a battleship hull.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

The only "cuts" we will get will be nothing more than the word "cut".  Any so called cuts will always occur in their "we will cut xxx billion dollars over 10 years.  Its always over 10 years.  All the cuts are always in the outlying years, and never materialize.  Thats why its pointless to raise taxes at all.  They will just spend even more.  But, if I were the Republicans, I would ask Obama what he wants and pass it all right down to the last cent.  Then there would be no one else to blame when the ship finally sinks and sink it will. 
We all know that.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:10 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Reminds me of a sign I saw in a bar once:

Free Beer Tomorrow.

Bout sums up the state of things today.  There is always free beer tomorrow.

pods

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:10 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

I saw that sign in a bar called Julio's in NYC. Was meeting a guy known as repairman Jack.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Sometimes you just need to let your wife fail with her idea in order to finally do it with your idea....

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

You are dead on.  Ponzi schemes dont cut.  IIRC, Madoff basically cried in the end since he could keep it goin longer.  Did he try to stop it?  Nope.  He tried to keep it going until lhe couldnt.  Its human nature.

And Madoff was a one-man CEO callign the shots.  Imagine how screwed we are with a CONgress calling the shots.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

I don't think it's economic ignorace at all. I think that Ron Paul believes it's economic ignorance, because he, like so many other people, perhaps believe that no one could be so terrible as to willfully destroy the economies of nations for their own ill-gotten gains.

I'm not insinuating that there is or isn't some NWO style plot going on behind the curtain, but as publicly stupid as the people printing the money and making these bad calls are, I don't think that's the case behind closed doors.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:31 | Link to Comment Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

It is interesting to ponder just why such a relentlessly destructive course has been pursued. Occam would say it is political expediency but what if the root cause is really something else? NWO, maybe...or is it what is behind door #3?!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:14 | Link to Comment PUD
Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Seems optimistic considering where we really are now.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:33 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Test for 12%.  They will report 9%, revised to 11% in a month, and 22% in 30 years time.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The only way to increase tax revenue is for the economy to grow

Well - game, set, match, then.

Go ask someone in Poland what "middle class" life is like, then get prepared to enjoy it. If we're lucky.

edit: I probably should have said Albania.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:44 | Link to Comment wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

i have and will say , let it go. why would good democrats worry about republicans? if taxes are to be raised , DO IT. if spending is to be cut,DO IT. throw us over the cliff. are democrats worried the looters are not patriotic? end this fasciti regime...jump into the abyss....if it is so bad the fascisti democrats can outlaw any dissent. if not then ,yippee. but in a fiat/funny money regime how is any of this revelant?  

doesnt anyone taste the bile and see how silly it is. paper  obama dollars backed by slave serf americans that are in debt. fuck and end it ...better for the world  and better for billioaire grifter corzine.....just print off a couple of gazillion and be  done with it....

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:58 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Those guys get paid really well NOT to solve problems.

What's supposed to be their motivation?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:28 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

But at least we will always have health care. It's a right, you know.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

You will submit to the money flood now that you realize it is unstoppable.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Unstoppable, and also now apparently totaly meaningless.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:19 | Link to Comment bilejones
bilejones's picture

I prefer Taki's formulation

"They are economic lesbians, they don't know dick.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

And all the Talking Heads in the mainstream media blathering away about the Fiscal Cliff

The next time each MSM reporter reads it off their teleprompter, I would love to pause and ask them what Fiscal Cliff even means. I bet less then 10% of them would have a decent answer.

When Kathy Lee and Hoda, or Yoda, or whatever her name is start yammering about it, you'll know I'm right.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:26 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

I tried explaining it to my aunt the other day. I told her I pay $2400 a year into social security. Grandma gets $1100 a month. So my money pays for two months of Grandma's checks. That means six other people making the same as me are required to fund Grandma's social security.

We have roughly 78 million full time jobs in America and by 2030 there will be almost 70 million retirees collecting checks. I didn't count part time jobs because they barely add enough to the system to count for anything. If it takes six workers at $50k to pay for the benefits of around 35 million SS recipients, it stands to reason that it will take 12 workers or more at $50k to pay for each retiree in 2030, if the level of benefits stays the same. That comes out to 840 million people needed to pay for SS benefits in 2030.

I said, you better hope we can tax the Chinese to pay for American SS. Her reply was, "No, Social Security just pays you back what you paid into the system." My hand went to my face as I realized even the generic dumbed down explanation I just gave still went six miles over her head.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:53 | Link to Comment somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

Your aunt, my parents, they're all the same.  Content is their shallow "understanding" of the world as long as the lights stay on.

I don't know about you, but I have absolutely NO intention of supporting these ignorant bastards when the "wheels come off" this sham of a system.

They're frigging *done* & I couldn't care less.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:36 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

"I said, you better hope we can tax the Chinese to pay for American SS."

Hmmm. What a capital idea. Do you think we could really make it happen? Unfortunately, they have nuclear weapons. Might be kinda of tricky to pull off.

But still, worth thinking about, don't you think?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:53 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I think we already do...  aren't cheap chinese goods one of the better ways to hide job loss and inflation?  Granny or auntie can get by on SS at the moment solely because of cheap outsourced labor, among other things.  We've been taxing the shit out of them for a long time...  albeit the ol' inflation tax...  six of one, half dozen of another.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:03 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

Worth trying? How about it is and has been going on for a long time.

The devaluing of the future real value of our debt the Chinese hold is dropping in proportion to the inflation caused by QEx. The same is true for the dollars in American banks owned by Chinese (and other) nationals, companies and Sovereign. Think about it this way: those other countries extracted real and limited resources from their lands, then added value with labor and then shipped us tons upon tons of products in exchange for printed upon paper that they keep in our banks, but which losses value every day.

They are out of their fucking minds taking it up the ass like that.

Edit: MachoMan beat me to it. We were typing at the same time.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 22:40 | Link to Comment hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

When the chinese are ready or we overreach in the middle east they will end americas dominance by destroying the dollar ith the help of the russians

Guest whos currency will probably end up with reserve status

The chinese when they finally disclose who much gold they have may be able to value their currency to gold 

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:03 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

adr, That sir is a very, very good description of how screwed that program (and we) truly are.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 17:38 | Link to Comment catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Other than the "No shit, Sherlock", did Simon just write something useful?

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

No, he didn't. "Mandatory" spending is mandatory because Congress passed a law at some point mandating that spending. Congress could just as easily pass a law un-mandating that same spending.

 

The law of gravity is mandatory. Laws of Congress are not.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:05 | Link to Comment odatruf
odatruf's picture

I regret I have but only one green arrow to give.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I junked you since I feel Simon did NOT write something useful...

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