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Guest Post: What's Next In The Middle East?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics

What's Next In The Middle East?

While the missiles, planes and rockets fly over Gaza and Israel, both Hamas and the Israeli government have been engaged in a battle of social media.

Hamas:

 

And Israel:

It is a battle to shape the perceptions of the rest of the world.

The IDF appears so far to have the upper hand in terms of social media, having notched up 143,000 followers on Twitter, although Hamas’ al-Qassam Brigades are in swift pursuit having just climbed above 20,000 followers.

Yet to view this as a simple conflict between Hamas and Israel is too superficial. It ignores the history and the context. This is a much bigger and broader tapestry.

Glenn Greenwald writes:

Israel‘s escalating air attacks on Gaza follow the depressingly familiar pattern that shapes this conflict. Overwhelming Israeli force slaughters innocent Palestinians, including children, which is preceded (and followed) by far more limited rocket attacks into Israel which kill a much smaller number, rocket attacks which are triggered by various forms of Israeli provocations  — all of which, most crucially, takes place in the context of Israel’s 45-year-old brutal occupation of the Palestinians (and, despite a “withdrawal” of troops, that includes Gaza, over which Israel continues to exercise extensive dominion). The debates over these episodes then follow an equally familiar pattern, strictly adhering to a decades-old script that, by design at this point, goes nowhere.

And Michael Chussudovsky writes:

On November 14,  Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari was murdered in a Israeli missile attack. In a bitter irony,  barely a few hours before the attack, Hamas received the draft proposal of a permanent truce agreement with Israel.

“Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip.”(Haaretz, November 15, 2012)

 

F-16 fighter planes, Apache helicopters and unmanned drones were deployed. Israeli naval forces deployed along the Gaza shoreline were involved in extensive shelling of civilian targets.

While Israel continues to enforce extreme restrictions on the lives of Palestinians, it has been inevitable that organisations like Hamas who promise resistance against Israel and Zionism will thrive. And while Hamas has thrived, Israel has continued to impose sanctions and restrictions. Both sides have been locked into a cycle of brutal retaliation (and a particularly suicidal cycle for the Palestinians).

In the latest skirmishes, Hamas has inflicted three Israeli casualties in rocket strikes, the Israeli military has already assassinated two high level Hamas commanders, and carried out successful strikes on dozens of Gazan targets resulting in thirty deaths.

But Israel and Hamas share a deeply interwoven history. The WSJ notes:

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Avner Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.

And co-operation has continued between Hamas and Israel, even while they throw rockets at each other, and even while Hamas continues to receive funds and weapons from Israel’s major rivals, including Iran. Upon Ahmed Jabari’s killing, Haaretz noted:

Israel killed its subcontractor in Gaza.

 

The political outcome of the operation will become clear on January 22, but the strategic ramifications are more complex: Israel will have to find a new subcontractor to replace Ahmed Jabari as its border guard in the south.

Co-operation between Hamas and Israel should not be surprising. The two factions of hardliners — on one side Hamas, and on the other side Netanyahu’s coalition — validate each other’s existence. Without a state of perpetual enmity, the hardliners would find themselves marginalised. Nothing strengthens Hamas in Palestine like an Israeli rocket attack, and nothing strengthens Likud and Yisrael Beitenu in Israel like a Palestinian rocket attack.

However, Israel’s co-operation with Hamas may now be at an end. The surprise strike on Jabari may well be a sign that Hamas is to be cast aside and driven out of Gaza. This seems like the beginning of a new era in the middle east.

Now that the American election is out of the way, Netanyahu may be stepping toward engaging with Iran.

John Glaser, writing for AntiWar.com lays out one theory:

Israel, lest we forget, instigated this resumption of missile exchanges last week when two Palestinian civilians were shot and killed and Israeli tanks intruded into Gaza, prompting Gaza militants to respond by targeting Israeli soldiers, which then gave Israel an excuse to unleash successive airstrikes. And Israel had numerous chances to pacify the situation, considering Hamas publicly offered to establish a total ceasefire and Egypt appeared about to broker a truce between the two. Israel has intentionally inched towards escalation from the beginning. Are we to believe this isn’t strategic?

A ground invasion, and a reoccupation of Gaza by the IDF could be the first step toward engaging Iran. It would allow for Israel to dislodge Hamas, and create a buffer between Israel and Egypt, and the forces of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Morsi government in Egypt has pledged to support the Palestinians — but is this a bluff? Does Egypt have the capability or the desire to really oppose Israel? Does Iran really have the capability or the desire to oppose Israel in a more active way? Ultimately, Iran may have no choice, as Netanyahu is certain that they are on the nuclear threshold.

The world is in motion. Israel is playing its cards. The intent? To create facts on the ground that cement Israel’s position as the dominant power in the middle east for the next century.

Now, Iran’s move.

 


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Fri, 11/16/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Maybe 0bama will recognize palestine and gaza.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

LOL, that would be hilarious..

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

Northen Ireland stepped back from the endless cycle of violent reprisals.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Now we made them debt slaves, success for the Rothschilds.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:17 | Link to Comment Dalago
Dalago's picture

Judiasm is not Zionism. You REALLY want to know whats going to happen?  Isreal is going to try to plow over the two concentration camps, Gaza and West Bank, then plow over Syria then Iran.  THEN is going to divey up the land.  Oded Yenin created a think tank in the 1980's READ MORE HERE:  

A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties

 

and here: http://muslimperspectives.com/?m=201208&paged=2

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

What's going to happen is World War Three:

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/11/extreme-danger-immediately-...

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/11/dow-13000-manic-depressive-...

Just as Russia, China and the Arab powers have been planning all along:

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2009/05/russias-secret-war-plans.html

You all have been duped into self-defeat.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:33 | Link to Comment cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

The Bible tells us: “Generations come and generations go, while the earth endures for ever.” (Ecclesiastes 1:4, The New English Bible) Also, consider the implications of what is said at Isaiah 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, . . . the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”

Would a loving father spend many hours designing and building a toy boat for his son’s delight or a dollhouse for his daughter’s joy, only to destroy it moments after giving it to him or her? That would be cruel! In the same way, God created the earth primarily for the delight of his human creation. To the first human couple, Adam and Eve, God said: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it.” Thereafter, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” (Genesis 1:27, 28, 31) God has not abandoned his purpose for the earth; he will not allow the earth to be destroyed. Regarding all that he has promised, Jehovah emphatically stated: “It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.”—Isaiah 55:11.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:51 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

What does God do when His children have become spoiled, disobedient brats?

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/11/harbinger-update-ny-governo...

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Israel has been oppressing Palestinians and stealing their land for decades.

Palestine has the right to self defense. Does the Sudan have a right to defend herself against Israel?

Satellite photos suggest air strike on Sudan Arms Plant

http://www.section9department17.com/1/post/2012/10/satellite-photos-suggest-air-strike-on-sudan-arms-plant.html

Sudan blames Israel for Khartoum arms factory blast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20050781

 

Dennis Kucinich "American Drones In Pakistan Have Killed As Many As 3378 People!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upSSwMXlhko&feature=youtu.be

Drones Briefing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_UFggJCO-o&feature=youtu.be

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:24 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Israel's not innocent IMHO: http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/06/israels-jews-have-separated...

But a culture that values life is better than a culture that values death in my book.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:42 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Every other country on the planet know of Israel's dastardly hateful deadly deeds over its entire history, except for some people who live in the USA. Virtually the entire planet is now on the side of the Palestinians, and so am I.


Anonymous Destroys Israel By Taking Down Hundreds of Websites and Leaking Emails and Passwords

Here's a statement from Anonymous explaining why they attacked Israel:

Greetings World

For far too long, Anonymous has stood by with the rest of the world and watched in despair the barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment of the Palestinian people in the so called "Occupied Territories" by the Israel Defense Force. Like so many around the globe, we have felt helpless in the face of such implacable evil. And today's insane attack and threatened invasion of Gaza was more of the same.

But when the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand. As the former dictator of Egypt Mubarack learned the hard way – we are ANONYMOUS and NO ONE shuts down the Internet on our watch. To the IDF and government of Israel we issue you this warning only once. Do NOT shut down the Internet into the "Occupied Territories", and cease and desist from your terror upon the innocent people of Palestine or you will know the full and unbridled wrath of Anonymous. And like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will NOT survive it unscathed.

To the people of Gaza and the "Occupied Territories", know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight. We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the Internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world. As a start, we have put together the Anonymous Gaza Care Package – http://bit.ly/XH87C5 – which contains instructions in Arabic and English that can aid you in the event the Israel government makes good on it's threat to attempt to sever your Internet connection. It also contains useful information on evading IDF surveillance, and some basic first aid and other useful information. We will continue to expand and improve this document in the coming days, and we will transmit it to you by every means at our disposal. We encourage you to download this package, and to share it with your fellow Palestinians to the best of your ability.

We will be with you. No matter how dark it may seem, no matter how alone and abandoned you may feel – know that tens of thousands of us in Anonymous are with you and working tirelessly around the clock to bring you every aid and assistance that we can.

We Are Anonymous
We Are Everywhere
We Are Legion
We Do Not Forgive
We Do Not Forget

To the oppressors of the innocent Palestinian people, it is too late to EXPECT US

http://gizmodo.com/5961399/anonymous-destroys-israel-by-taking-down-hundreds-of-websites-and-leaking-emails-and-passwords?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:20 | Link to Comment Pink Floyd
Pink Floyd's picture

First you are wrong. It is a lie that everybody but the US is against Israel and supports the Falestinians.

Second, since when the consensus is right? If that was the case, then: we would still believe our planet is the center of the universe, germs and bugs are created voluntarily out of thin air, there are witches and we should burn them alive, etc.


Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:29 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

People in other countries do not have the intensive level of brainwashing and mind control perpetrated on their people by the mainstream media like the USA. They actually talk openly about the fact Israel and Mossad did things like 9/11 in their TV news reports, among other unpleasant things. Europe doesn't have fluoride in their water, and their citizens are much more intelligent with higher IQs than the American people.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 04:28 | Link to Comment Joe A
Joe A's picture

Thanks for the praise on our IQ but if that is so, why then did 90% of Europeans want Obama to win the elections? Because most Europeans just like Americans are sheep who are more interested in who will be the next Idol instead of what the fuck is going on with the economy and politics. I felt never more embarrased of being a European when Obama drew these big crowds when he was in Europe.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:38 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Actually the current residents have a legal title buried somewhere....hell if I know where it is....but it is history.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Europe DOES have Fluride , but there food is better quality.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 08:21 | Link to Comment Ayn NY
Ayn NY's picture

Don't forget the consensus also believes that socialism viable way to run an economy. Most economists follow Keynsian economics - are they right? Guess what, most of the world can be wrong.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 12:44 | Link to Comment Phat Stax
Phat Stax's picture

Michael - looking out your window, do you see missles raining down on your house and land?  If not, you are in no position to pass judgement.  The Palestinians obviously do not study history more recent than the chapter from 2000 years ago - if they did they would rcognize that 1) no matter what is "right," those who are more powerful in this world tend to seize property from those who are not.  If you are an American, you must also feel a commensurate level of sympathy for the Mexicans.  2)  If you lob explosive shit at Israel, they tend to respond in multiples.  This is not new.  3) The Palestinians have refused to organize themselves in a way that holds their own accountable for offensive attacks on Israel.  The rationale that 2000+ years of history gives them license to perpetually claim be playing defense is not valid.  The world changes every day - the Palestinians have suffered but have not taken responsbility for changing their circumstances.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 04:45 | Link to Comment beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

Israel is claiming, on FaceBook, that it has "the right to self-defence".

 

But, with the other side of its face, it pronounces that, "Iranians do not have the right to self-defence."

 

Statism, at its finest. "We may be armed as we see fit ...  but not you.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:19 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

"Earth's going to hell in a handbasket."--Me Today: 1.789

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:33 | Link to Comment cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

The Bible tells us: “Generations come and generations go, while the earth endures for ever.” (Ecclesiastes 1:4, The New English Bible) Also, consider the implications of what is said at Isaiah 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, . . . the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”

Would a loving father spend many hours designing and building a toy boat for his son’s delight or a dollhouse for his daughter’s joy, only to destroy it moments after giving it to him or her? That would be cruel! In the same way, God created the earth primarily for the delight of his human creation. To the first human couple, Adam and Eve, God said: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it.” Thereafter, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” (Genesis 1:27, 28, 31) God has not abandoned his purpose for the earth; he will not allow the earth to be destroyed. Regarding all that he has promised, Jehovah emphatically stated: “It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.”—Isaiah 55:11.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 05:45 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

unconvincing at first post (argument from authority, or, as the french revolution put it, important if true); boring upon second post.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

That book is incredibly dry and boring, one might even say "preachy".

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:31 | Link to Comment mick68
mick68's picture

One ally to Iran down, next up Syria.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 06:14 | Link to Comment Rantabulous
Rantabulous's picture

I don't know if Syria is next, but I'd say you are on the right track. IF Israel wanted to engage Iran it would be madness to do so before putting its heel firmly on the throat of allies and sympathisers that are capable of or at least very likely willing to inflict injury once Iran has been engaged. Gaza ticks that box.

It saddens me deeply to think of the men, women and children who live anywhere in the Middle East that suffer from all of this, who just want to live their lives in peace.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:35 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The true goal of all the Israeli machinations is securing the

headwaters of the river Jordan.

Everything else is smoke and mirrors, or preliminary moves on that chessboard.

Gaza is just a pawn,Lenanon is the target,but Iran is backing Hezbollah in

Lebanon.Therefore Iran must be taken out.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"Overwhelming Israeli force slaughters innocent Palestinians, including children, which is preceded by far more limited rocket attacks into Israel"

Hmmm... if only there were some solution in that sentence to avoid overwhelming Israeli resposnse. 

(THINK DAMMIT, THINK!)

Wait... I GOT IT!  Nope...I lost it.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:35 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Judiasm is not Zionism.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Zionism

 

Read the definition, and share it, not one thing wrong with Zionism.Why does Gaza even exist?, every time Israel has made land concessions the radicals just have it easier(escalation of violence, and easier to hit Israels cities)........why would anyone(we do not) bargain with Terrorists, so why should WE expect them to?.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

When I saw this video:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/wedding-guests-watch-as-israels-missile-...

I thought man, you can't possibly Hollywoodize/dramatize this any more than the raw footage does. Almost like the "End of the World" celebration in the Hitchiker's Guide to the galaxy. People eating, drinking, watching all this shit going on.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 04:51 | Link to Comment beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

Interesting video.

 

Is there any evidence that those missiles were successfully intercepting their targets? 

 

Do any of ycu chaps know the economics of the Iron Dome?   I mean, how much does it cost in comparison to the Palestinian's efforts?  Will there come a point where low-tech overwhelms the ability of the defender to pay for its high-tech solution?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:49 | Link to Comment galis
galis's picture

dildo man relax

we are only started to react to their rocket atacks on our towns

lets talk in a week

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Northen Ireland stepped back from the endless cycle of violent reprisals.

Yep, and goody for them.BUT, they weren't surrounded with 1.2 Billion people DEAD set on their toal DESTRUCTION as a Race. Were they?.

Not even a close comparison.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Quitters

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

good post aziz. thx.

 

guess i'm no god re: patraeus and black swan...yet....or i have zero credibility...i stand by what i was sent...but fighting fed and msm and politicians....losing 80% of the time......

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You certainly don't have zero credibility. If you are guilty of anything it is getting some hopes up around here. We have all done it from time to time. Welcome back to psycho ward. You thought you were free for a minute there.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Don't worry about it man, but you DO owe me a new rubber gasket for the hatch on my underground bunker.......

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:13 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

If Obama had a set of balls half the size of Michelle, he would recognize

both Palestine and Gaza and stop pandering to the Zionists. 

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

(Biden 2016 taking a long step back)

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Colonel Walter ...
Colonel Walter E Kurtz's picture

I wish I would have said that.....

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:30 | Link to Comment Walter E Kurtz
Walter E Kurtz's picture

You rang, bitchez?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:27 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

So sorry, out o time on the Biden watch.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:50 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hillary will cut Biden's throat long before 2016 hits.

 

Kinda like what she's about to do to Bam Bam. Hillary never forgets bitchez!

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 21:52 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

War. Politics. Propaganda. 

Killing Kindness

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 21:52 | Link to Comment stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

"Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live."

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:11 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Warmongering existentialism is the best.  Adolf would be proud of us all.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

ding ding, what do we have for him Johnny?

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

A bottle of Irish Whisky?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:54 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

"...in this world of eternal struggle..."

The eternity here will run as long as the resources to sustain the struggle. And 'americans' are working at solving that resources issue...

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Insert biblical prophecy line here.

If that fails, insert Mayan prophecy line here.

Conflict in the Middle East.... Wake me up when the status quo changes. Hamas has declared "total war" 4 times now dating back to the 90's.

Israel feels neglected, so like a bad kid they are going to act up so the bad parent known as Amerika rewards them for their bad behavior. More gift certificates from General Dynamics for you!!! As long as you promise to be good

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

OK. Biblical prophecy line:

Israel will prevail.

Simple as that.

The Book has been right every other time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

Actually, some interpret the Bible to say that Jerusalem will fall.  The only reason it will not fall completely is because God himself steps in and saves it - so that all may know the power of God.

According to this interpretation, God will prevail, not Israel.  Puts a whole different spin on things.  Think of what might be coming if/when you see Israel completely overwhelmed and going down.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:19 | Link to Comment mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Some might even say Jerusalem is a metaphor for the promised land not the geographical city of the same name. Anyone who reads any of these spirtual texts literally is an idiot. God has no care for man's petty material earthly follies which include cities, bickering, war and propaganda. The promised land was never a geographical place it was a realised idea resting in the infinite unknowable.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 01:48 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

In the interpretation to which I refer, most believe Jerusalem refers to an actual city, given that the battle that leads to Jerusalem's downfall is supposedly conducted by real men.  The more credible question seems to be whether the scriptures being interpreted refer to the sack of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. or to some future conquest.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:27 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"The Book has been right every other time"

cite page, chapter and verse please....

and none of this "and lo, i beheld the 7th son of Magog break the golden seal" shit....

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:21 | Link to Comment mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Thats bible literalism for you. Vanguard of the profane.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 12:49 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

that's what Bernard de clairvaux said when he preached the second crusade; that's what all successive popes said for each crusade, thats what saint louis said before he wrung his hands in golden chains to ask for ransom from Templar bankstas. 

Thats NOT what Frederick II said, when he got Jerusalem for nothing having outfoxed king Kamel of Eygpt in a mathematical quiz game. Eight years of peace for being clever, from a little nerdy kinglet who would not have commanded 60 dirhams in a slave auction, he was so measly looking. Until the next Pope excommuncated him for bieng a peaceful shill who loved to make love and recite poetry rather than be crusader king. 

They, the crusaders were all proven wrong for singing "gott mit uns" as they got thrown out on their butt in 1291 from unholy holy land. Oh was the bible confused on that! 

So many biblical experts got it wrong. As did General Westmoreland in NAm, as Petraeus will in Afghanistan. All bow to "in god we trust"...

So the bible readers thought the world was flattttt...oh baby what a delusion that was. 

The beat goes on! 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

heh,

The Book has been right every other time.

and when it's wrong, we'll just redact it.

simple as.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:37 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

General Dynamics=Chicago's Capone/Syndicate  Crown Family(they were yid lawyers for the Chicago mob back in the day and got rich as the Italian and Irish mobs killed one another off)=huge O backers that bought him the IL US senate seat and the rest is history. Does this get any clearer as to why the pet monkey is in the Oval Office? the rot in the old oak is deep and we know what happens next.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

Some smell war, I smell new contruction

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Lot's of broken windows. The Palestinians should make out like bandits.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Some call it opportunistic.....some call it arbitrage.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:11 | Link to Comment Jon Bong Jovi
Jon Bong Jovi's picture

I like the way you think.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:22 | Link to Comment mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Smells like the Shock Doctrine.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:03 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Peace.  I figured a stupid question deserved a stupid response.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

Bingo. After the slaughter... Wonder what kind of slaughter they have mapped out for this one? LMAO.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

I would disagree with whom the next move rests-- that is if we are to go towards a more peaceful resolution.  In short, remove the hardliners on either side from power-- even with years of inbreeding hatred towards the other side people are aware that this conflict is not right.  Let those people be heard admist all the hooplah and take away the hardliners' agenda by removing their voice, power, and influence.

The greater question is of course how this all plays right into what a dominant Israel means for the superpowers behind the curtains: US and Saudi Arabia-- maybe even Russia.

It's like watching 2 drunken idiots fighting with bigger friends to back them up.  Israel in this case is an extension of the US' interests in the middle east.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Is it any coincidence that all hell breaks loose in the Middle East right after the US elections? Israel didn't wait long to kill the Hamas leader and then the retaliation begins, allowing for Israel to smash the crap out of Gaza. Meanwhile Hezbolla in Southern Lebanon is busy with it prime infantry up in Syria working on the side of the Assad government. Over 5,000 of their troops are protecting villages and towns with minority populations that the USA allied Sunni and al-Qaeda Jihadis want to kill. I guess when hezbolla troops showed up the great Free Syrian Army ran like rabbits for the hills. Don't want to fight any troops who could kick the IDF's ass on the battle field of Southern Lebanon. I would run too, these are well trained and motivated infantry fighters, not a bunch of half asses like the Free Syrian Army and the Jihadi terrorist from Libya and Iraq.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Hezbolla fights for a peaceful purpose..  it is stronger than greed

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Israel didn't wait long to kill the Hamas leader and then the retaliation begins, allowing for Israel to smash the crap out of Gaza.

Why Jack?, because he was watching re-runs of Archie Bunker?.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

Nice analysis JB.

Tylers give Jack his own air time.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Craft another financial aid package by allegedly seeking a relief fund. Funnel off budget shortfalls, and then make use of the account balance of monies for MSM photo ops pictures.

Go long on Iron Dome contracts…

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

It’s been around for a long time. Do you remember the Boeing ABL program?

I imagine this technology will pick up traction…... Vortex Cannon

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 10:56 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Vortexs are interesting, but don't seem very efficient at conveying energy to a target.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:24 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Hence my words, "pickup traction". Just think about what was shoved down a barrel of a gun, it wasn't a bullet.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:27 | Link to Comment The big unzip
The big unzip's picture

Raze Gaza and be done with it.  If you want to be a business-man then be the best,  want a be a criminal then be the best criminal you can be, want to fight a war  then fight to win.  If not then, QUIT, but  dont half ass it.  If war wasnt so civil, maybe they would end. Maybe not but this is stupid.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment freedogger
freedogger's picture

Dragging out wars and never-ending wars are much more profitable.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 04:07 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

How about they raze YOUR house Madeliene Albright as a ceremonial token representing Gaza? Do a complete job & be done with it...

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:43 | Link to Comment The big unzip
The big unzip's picture

I would gladly raze my house if it would bring lasting peace to the region.  Im sure Madeliene Albright thanks you for confusing her of looking sexy.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:43 | Link to Comment The big unzip
The big unzip's picture

I would gladly raze my house if it would bring lasting peace to the region.  Im sure Madeliene Albright thanks you for confusing her of looking sexy.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

What's Next In The Middle East?

More death.....Needless death.

Why do so many have to die from the decisions of so few?

Kill the few!!! Throw a party. Wait (guns loaded) for the next round of dick-heads. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:18 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Ima anal sphincter

Don't hate nothin at all except hatred. Bob Dylan

You have learned discipline and acquired many new abilities. however never forget that a priest’s life is a simple one and must remain free of ambition.’ -Master Po
‘Have you no ambition, Master Po?’ -Disciple Caine
‘Only one. Five years hence, it is my wish to make a pilgrimage to the Forbidden City. It is a place where even priests receive no special status. There in the Temple of Heaven, will be a festival The full moon of May. It will be the thirteenth day of the fifth month in the Year of the Dog.’ -Master Po
‘That is not such a great ambition.’ -Disciple Caine
‘But it is ambition, nonetheless. Who among us is without flaw?’ -Master Po

(Biden 2016 Who could imagine they would freak out somewhere in Kansas)


Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:22 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

And gool ole Master Po, minding his own business, got killed by the Emperor's thugs and so Caine became a wanted man.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

oooh snap, isn't Real's birthday is 14 May - maybe with the time zone difference. . .

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Iran's best move would be to do nothing. If attacked, it will mean more support from Russia and other sympathetc nations.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:33 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Pepe Escobar lays it out in the Asia Times: “So many wars to launch, so little time” for Netanyahu, especially if Obama is considering a deal with Iran.

“So,” he asks, “what is Bibi to do? Simple. Launch Operation Pillar of Cloud (then Pillar of Defense; see this priceless piece on the ‘divine’ ramifications) against the only place on Earth the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) can raise hell and wreak havoc with total impunity and negligible "collateral damage";  the under-siege, illegally blockaded, collectively punished-to-death inhabitants of the open-air prison known as Gaza.

And answers:

This is the best timeline so far. Crucial in it is what happened last Sunday. Gaza Health Ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra announced that a 13-year-old boy, Hameed Abu Daqqa, was shot in the stomach while playing football with his friends outside his southeast Gaza home. This soccer terrorist was evidently a threat to myriad Israeli helicopters buzzing overhead.

“Launching a war, for the IDF, is child's play. Tel Aviv just had to kill a few Palestinian civilians like the dangerous soccer terrorist - and send in some extra tanks. Gaza factions had to respond - and they targeted Israeli soldiers (not civilians). That was the perfect excuse for Tel Aviv to go on a rampage.

“On Monday, Hamas and other Palestinian factions in Gaza offered a renewed truce to Israel. To no avail. On Wednesday, the head of the armed wing of Hamas, Ahmed al-Jabari, was killed in a targeted assassination (ask General David Petraeus and his CIA buddies about it, they are specialists in the matter).

“One does not need to read Haaretz to know that al-Jabari has been the top Israeli subcontractor in Gaza - as in charge of assuring Israel's security - for the past five-and-a-half years. In exchange, Israel once in a while would drop a few shekels on Gaza's banks, via bulletproof trucks.

“So why snuff out al-Jabari? Simple. Israel goes to the polls in January. Thus emerges Bibi's political campaigning in full-action mode. Campaign motto: Let's kill Palestinians. With such thrills on offer, any other Israeli political voice - even slightly dissenting - is drowned…”

Thanks to ZH poster Hannibal on GW's blog.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NK17Ak04.html

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:23 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

  the under-siege, illegally blockaded, collectively punished-to-death inhabitants of the open-air prison known as Gaza.

 

No one (except their own neighbors) keep them there.Their Brothers and sisters will not even take them in.WHY?

Simple............they want the SHIT to continue.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:12 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Your premises are incorrect, of course: but the cruelty which comes from your thinking is almost beyond belief.

Is this why Christianity, the love of one's brother, was to be destroyed in America? To make her a willing partner?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:25 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

JR, you know that history does not support your position here, it supports DosZap.  All one has to do is read the reports from the 1940's to learn this.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

"History" is bunk and so is DosZap.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

DosZap has shared many times that he is a Christian Zionist, he's just staying true to role.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"No one (except their own neighbors) keep them there."

Genius, if I come in and evict you from your house at gun-point, then make you live in a hut on what is now MY property, how it is the neighbor's fault you lost your home?

Sure they COULD let you come stay with them with the understanding that you'd never leave and would put a major strain on their budgets, but I still stole your fucking home and made you my serf.

Your attempt at diversion has failed.

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:29 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

No attempt at diversion.  Simply a statement of historical fact.

... how it is the neighbor's fault you lost your home?

Read your history.  Those who left were told to leave by their Arab bretheren, so the Arab bretheren could have free reign to drive the Zionists from the land.  Unfortunately for those who left, the Arab bretheren did not succeed in what they said they would do.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:09 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

I've read my history.

Israel is a war “nation,” armed to the teeth.  They have the latest military technology that American taxpayers can buy—nuclear weapons, fighter jets, missiles carriers…  They are an armed camp.

"We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation."  -- Menachem Begin

Excerpts from The Deir Yassin Massacre by William Martin | CounterPunch

“On April 9, 1948, members of the underground Jewish terrorist group, the Irgun, or IZL, led by Menachem Begin, who was to become the Israeli prime minister in 1977, entered the peaceful Arab village of Deir Yassin, massacred 250 men, women, children and the elderly, and stuffed many of the bodies down wells. There were also reports of rapes and mutilations. The Irgun was joined by the Jewish terrorist group, the Stern Gang, led by Yitzhak Shamir, who subsequently succeeded Begin as prime minister of Israel in the early '80s, and also by the Haganah, the militia under the control of David Ben Gurian. The Irgun, the Stern Gang and the Haganah later joined to form the Israeli Defense Force (IDF). Their tactics have not changed…

“From about 1938 on to the founding of Israel, Begin was the leader of the Irgun. That group regularly assassinated English soldiers in Palestine and frequently hung their booby-trapped bodies in public places. Under Begin, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 97 British civil servants. The Stern Gang, under Shamir, also assassinated the U.N. representative to Palestine, Count Bernadotte, in 1948.

"But Deir Yassin was not the only massacre by the Israeli Defense Force. That army, under Moshe Dayan, took the unarmed and undefended village of al-Dawazyma, located in the Hebron hills, massacred 80 to 100 of its residents, and threw their bodies into pits. "The children were killed by breaking their heads with sticks ... The remaining Arabs were then sealed in houses, as the village was systematically razed ..." (Nur Masalha, The Historical Roots of the Palestinian Refugee Question)…

"In fact, according to UN estimates, which some say are conservative, 750,000 Palestinians fled the site of the present Jewish state in 1948. Those refugees and their descendents now number about 4.5 million and constitute the largest and longest standing refugee population in the world. Many live in squalid refugee camps distributed in the surrounding Arab states or in the West Bank or Gaza, many retain the titles to their land, recognized by the British before 1948 or the Ottomans before that, and many retain the keys to their front doors of their former homes in what is now Israel, whether or not those doors still exists…"

http://www.counterpunch.org/martin05132004.html\

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:41 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

... according to UN estimates ... 750,000 Palestinians fled the site of the present Jewish state in 1948.

At the request of their Arab bretheren, in anticipation of the invasion that would drive the Zionists from the territory.

Do you understand that approxmately 850,000 Jews were driven from their homes in Arab lands at this time also?  If being driven from one's home is the evil, then we must include this number in the discussion.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment sangell
sangell's picture

Lot of chess pieces being moved. For now Iran is in a tough spot. Its whole position in Syria, Gaza and Lebanon is in danger of being lost. The IAEA comes out with a report that basically confirms Iran is up to no good with its nuclear program. Israel has the military whip hand. We shall see how Tehran reacts but react in some fashion it must.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Paul Craig Roberts recently exposed the big lie that Israel uses to blame Iran for what she in fact does in How the Government’s Lies Become Truth.

Says Roberts, "the CIA and the National Intelligence Estimate stick to the conclusion that Iran abandoned its flirtation with a nuclear weapon in 2003 and the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors on the ground in Iran report no evidence of a nuclear weapons program and no evidence of any diversion of enriched uranium to a weapons program.

"Moreover, what could Iran do with a nuclear weapon, other than use it against an aggressor? Any offensive use would result in Iran’s destruction.

"Why do Americans believe Iran has nukes or is making nukes when the CIA says they are not? The answer is that Netanyahu says so, and the elected members of the US government in the House, Senate, and White House are afraid to contradict the Israeli prime minister, as are the American print and TV media. Some “superpower” we are! The “indispensable people” have to grovel in the dirt before Netanyahu. Americans are not even aware of their shame...

"A nuclear weapon requires 95% enrichment. To get to 5% from scratch and then to 95% is a long drawn out process. I think I first started hearing Israeli government claims of an Iranian nuke back in the 1990s of last century...

"According to the NY Times on September 29, 2011, 'the Iranian president told the Washington Post and later, in basically the same terms, the New York Times: "if you [the United States and Europe] give us uranium grade 20 percent now, we will stop production."'

"On Israel’s orders Washington vetoed the Iranian concession. Solving the problem is not what the Israeli government wants. The problem has to be kept alive so that it can be used to foment an attack on Iran."

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/09/29/how-the-governments-lies-become-truth/

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:59 | Link to Comment sangell
sangell's picture

I need someone to explain to me why Israel would want to make an enemy of  the largest military power in the middle east if did not have some legitimate reason to. If you are going to falsely accuse someone of seeking to acquire nuclear weapons why not Egypt or Syria or even Turkey. Some place that does not pose the logistical challenges Iran poses to even reach.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:43 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Iran does not accept Israel’s ambition for continued expansion and domination in the Middle East; Iran refuses to bow down to Israel and meets her threats with resolve.

For a monster like Israel, Iran has become an enemy of her ambitions.

When Ahmadinejad  was in the United States in September and was asked about the Israeli occupation of Palestine, he replied that the Palestinians should have the right to self-governance and asked:

"If a group comes and occupies the United States of America, destroys homes while women and children are in those homes, incarcerates the youth of America, imposes five different wars on many neighbors, and always threaten others, what would you do? What would you say? Would you help it? ... Or would you help the people of the United States?"

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:18 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

We can wait until they blow one off in Chicago or DC.

Then we'll know fer shore.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:38 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

"Why do Americans believe Iran has nukes or is making nukes when the CIA says they are not? The answer is that Netanyahu says so, ...

That is the lie of all propaganda pieces such as yours.  Truth is, both the Zionists and the U.S. and allies say that Iran will not be allowed to develop a nuclear weapons program.  Nobody is saying that Iran has, or is making, nukes - as you put it.  They have been saying that Iran will not be allowed to get to the point where it could make nukes.

Big difference between what is actually being said and what you are claiming is being said.

And, of course, all this totally avoids the issue that Iran joined an organization, and benefits from being a member of that organization, that has said Iran must stop enriching uranium.  Not the Zionists; not the U.S. or its allies; but the organization that Iran willing joined, and whose benefits Iran enjoys.  That organization is the one that says Iran must stop enriching uranium.

Good grief.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:57 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

“Nobody is saying that Iran has, or is making, nukes - as you put it.”

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made an emotional appeal to the American public Sunday, as part of his continuing effort at pressuring President Obama to set a clear 'red line' for Tehran and its nuclear program. Iran is now 'in the red zone' of building nuclear weapons and the United States must 'place that red line before them now, before it’s too late,' Netanyahu told NBC. Adding urgency to the unusually public appeal to the White House, Netanyahu said that 'in six months or so they’ll be 90 percent of the way there,.'”  Reuters (September 16, 2012).

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/09/16/benjamin_netanyahu_says_iran_could_develop_nuclear_bomb_in_months.html

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:44 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

I assume you are supporting the point I made.  Netanyahu says that, in six months, Iran will be 90 percent of the way towards having a nuclear weapons program.  Not 90 percent of the way towards having a bomb and being able to deliver it.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:43 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

The CIA is saying Iran has no nuclear ambitions?

There was a new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) in 2011 that reportedly stated that Iran had not made the final Strategic Decision to produce a nuclear weapon, but were working on acquiring the capability. Supposedly, the final decision will be made upon feasibility of capability.

The 2011 NIE reportedly discredited or repudiated the 2007 NIE that posited Iran gave up its program in 2003 due to the US threat of military action against WMD proliferators with ties to terrorist organizations.

No unclassified version of the 2011 NIE has been released that I know of. How do I know it's contents, then? I do not. But there are news reports concerning the 2011 NIE. A NYT report is linked below.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/15/exclusive_new_national_intelligence_estimate_on_iran_complete

I'm not saying the national intelligence community is correct. They have managed some spectacular failures over the years, and caution in acceptance of any analysis is wise. I'm just pointing out your assertion is factually incorrect.

I should also point out the IAEA seems to think Iran has an active weapons program, and suspects Iran recently conducted hydro-dynamic tests required to validate design and performance of explosive lenses in an implosion type weapon.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:28 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

So, why exactly would Isreal want to attack Iran if they pose no threat to Israel? If the ruling coalition wanted a war to boost their election prospects, there are plenty of people willing to mix it up right next door.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

IAEA reports that Iran is three months away from having enough nuclear material to make an atomic bomb.

Whatever your sympathies you can't expect Israel to let Hamas shoot rockets into Tel Aviv and Jerusalem further.

Iran has openly and repeatedly stated it wants to wipe Israel off the map.  So, either Israel initiiates military action to protect itself or they leave altogether and let the Muslim Brotherhood take over the region.

What other options are there?

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Seriously, what are the options for either side?

Peace hasn't worked since Israel was founded post WWII.

The Muslims want to kill the Jews, and the Jews want Israel and Jerusalem (along with a lot of Christians).

How do you end the Crusades in 2012-2013?

"Negotiations" have never worked.

Ideas?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:09 | Link to Comment Pink Floyd
Pink Floyd's picture

"Negotiations" are meaningless when one side is not genuine.

The Arab word for peace is Hudna, meaning a truce till we (Arabs) become sufficiently strong to destroy the other party.

Gaza-led-Hamas agreed to multiple Hudna-s with Israel, and faithful to the meaning of the word resumed fighting at will (not even breaking its own promise as it was just a Hudna).
Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:16 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep. The Grand Potentate of the barbary Pirates told President Jefferson they would quit raiding when the entire world followed Islam.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 12:26 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Just look at arab history. Its been the most perverted, convoluted  form of governance. Every dynasty achieved power to Caliphate by murdering the previous Caliph. From 900 AD onwards the arab world splintered into Sunni Abbasids and shia Fatimids. Since then there has never been true concord in Islam inspite of the Crusades that united the two under sunni flag provisionally. But the rise of Safavid Iran splintered it again. The rabid Islamic world tolerates no stable political institutions that challenge the Quran as political framework. This has been its undoing; until Kamal imposed it in modern Turkey, and Mossadegh and Nasser tried to do it unsuccessfully in Iran and Egypt. Dogma and reason cannot cohabit politically. Religion, of Abrahamic origin, can survive only as individual's or social chapter's lodestone; not as political platform. Ever again, as this is now proven universal principle.

There will NEVER be a caliphate again as dogmatic religion spawns more "heretics", internal enemies than rival faiths. Nothing new : the christian churches, orthodox, latin and reformist (all versions) fought out internecine battles until renaissance, nation states and enlightenment made them politically irrelevant in West. Science and evolution theory killed revelatory hold on political thought totally; inspite of US bible belt.

The same fate awaits Islam. It will be imposed from outside, if it cannot find it from within. So Caliphate is like Communism, its totally irrelevant as its unforgiving and totalitarian. Not to say muslim spiritualism or social chapter is irrelevant to society. The existential conundrum in human society, makes both eternal quests, along with individual liberties. Nothing to do with nation states, supranational organisations and politics in general.

So forget about Hudna, its a head up ass vision within dogmatic world.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:57 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

No, Iran has not "repeatedly stated it wants to wipe Israel off the map."

The video - Did Ahmadinejad Really Say He Wanted to "Wipe Off" Israel? -  explains how the U.S. media uses outright lies and lies of omission “to manipulate the public into a confrontation with Iran.”

Ahmadinejad's words set the record straight, and I quote:

“What Ahmadinejad said was: ‘The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.’

Yet, “All through the media this lie about him supposedly saying he wants to wipe Israel off the map has been spread. In fact, media outlets like CBS with their show 60 Minutes have suppressed what the Iranian president has said, clearly.

“This is the part  broadcast where the president said: ‘I think that the Israeli government is a fabricated government…'

“The part…they omitted from the telecast is where he talks about what a solution is…democracy… and peace(the whole video was shown on C-Span but an edited version was show on 60 minutes and they omitted everything )":

 'and I have talked about the solution.  The solution is democracy. We have said allow the Palestinian people to participate in a free and fair referendum to express their views. What we are saying only serves the cause of durable peace. We want durable peace in that part of the world. A durable peace will only come about with once the views of the people are met.'”

--Iranian President Ahmadinejad

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:59 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

Yet recently Iran's top Mullah has said that Iran will help anyone who wants to fight against Israel.  Puts the lie to your comments pretty quickly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/iran-says-it-launched-sa...

From that link:  Khamenei ... suggested that Iran’s support for the Palestinian militant group Hamas and for Lebanon’s Hezbollah had helped lead to victory in their battles with “the Zionist state,” as Israel is officially called here.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:05 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

" “What Ahmadinejad said was: ‘The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.' "

Wow, that is such a HUGE difference. They do not want to "wipe Israel off the map," they just want to make it "vanish from the page of time." That should greatly relieve everyone in Israel.

Thanks for calling this to our attention.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:49 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

The regime (governors) must vanish.  The people (governed) can stay.  And be governed by the new governors, who really want to be the top cheese in the area.  'Course, it will take a few centuries of continued fighting to figure out who will be the top cheese that govens the area.  But that's OK.  As long as it isn't those stinkin' Zionists.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:15 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I think the Persians want to eliminate the Zionist Political Entity.

Persia used to have Jews and Christians there until the 79 revolution. Now, not so many.

They get really stoned on this Mahdi thing. See what happened to Chinese Gordon in Khartoum.

Every 200 years or so, some guy pops up claiming he is the guy from the well.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:04 | Link to Comment Pink Floyd
Pink Floyd's picture

Suppose you are correct about what Ahmadinejad said (and I really don't think you are):

"[Israel] must vanish from the page of time" is not very reassuring to say the least (understatement).

No wonder Israel is worried about Iran becoming nuclear.

Recognize that Israel is too small to wait-and-see if Iran will make good on its threats, and threaten to wipe Israel it did.

 

The Balestinians had elections some 8 years ago, and voted Hamas as the majority in their parliament. 

It is a mystery why they didn't have any subsequent election, but don't blame Israel for that.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Israel has been making that same claim about Iran being months away from having a nuclear bomb since 1979.

It didn't happen then and it isn't happening now. There is only one country in the middle east with nuclear weapons: Israel...everybody knows this...yet Israel still denies it. They have no reservations about blatantly lying to th world. They never have, they never will.

Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1108/Imminent-Iran-nucle...

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:57 | Link to Comment Pink Floyd
Pink Floyd's picture

Iran got lots of help delaying their nuke project.

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

PF - So much truthful info here implicating israel as a total monster who continually invents false flags to keep their death machine rolling.

You defending israel makes you such an ignorant defective jackass.

Get the fuck outta here.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:29 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Yes, that is such an intelligent and thoughtful argument. You have won me over. I concede.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"[Whatever your sympathies you can't expect Israel to let] Hamas shoot rockets into Tel Aviv and Jerusalem further."

And no mention of why this happens.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:57 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

I am quite tired of all the anti-Jewish and Israeli rants on this site. I would like to try and be real here for a moment.

It is not well appreciated in the US that the leadership in Iran is messianic. In his last speech to the UN, Ahmadinejad pulled the equivalent of President Obama standing at the podium and lecturing the audience on the book of Revelation and the glorious and happy coming of end times, and how it was our collective duty to hasten and facilitate the prophecy. It was truly bizarre.

This is not to say the leadership in Iran is of one mind on this, and many clerics would like to put aside the messianic faction, but the messianic faction is dominant. Proof is that Ahmadinejad is still in power.

More chilling is the sanctioned Iranian clerical doctrine of “Collective Martyrdom” which posits that: (1) the best thing one can do in life is to promote the greater glory of God (so far so good); (2) that the best way to promote the greater glory of God is through Jihad; (3) That the highest form of Jihad is martyrdom in the fight against infidels; (4) that the more martyrs, then, the greater the glory to God; (5) therefore, if you create more martyrs, you are promoting a greater glory to God than simply martyring yourself (this justifies recruitment of suicide bombers without having to become one yourself); (6) to promote the greatest glory to God, all Muslims should be martyred; (7) Muslims not willing to martyr themselves can be made into martyrs if they are killed by infidels trying to destroy Islam; (8) therefore, if Iran attacks the infidels in Jihad, and the infidels respond massively and kill all Muslims, then all Muslims have been martyred and the greatest glory to God has been achieved.

I am not making this up, and it’s actually part of the sanctioned school curriculum in Iran. I know it sounds insane to me and to you, and certainly not everyone by any means in Iran are onboard with this, but remember that crazy people have taken hold of countries before. It certainly posits the potential that the Iranian leadership does not conform to the “rational actor” model of deterrence and is seeking massive retaliation to martyr as many Muslims and possible and to bring back the twelfth Imam.

The Iranian leadership has stated on many occasions their intent “to wipe Israel off the map” and so therefore create the conditions for the return of the twelfth Imam. These are not Russian or Chinese kleptokrats who are seeking self-enrichment. These are messianic nut-jobs who are seeking nuclear weapons for the purpose of bringing about the end of the world. Hitler told everyone quite plainly his intentions. Few listened because no one could be THAT crazy. They thought he could not possibly mean it. The Jews of Israel, who on a large part established Israel as a sanctuary against nut-jobs who wanted to wipe them out, are probably less prone to ignore such threats than either you or I, especially the older generation that is in power who survived the death camps, or are children of those that did.

I pray this is just a “normal” flare up of fighting between Hamas and Israel that will stay contained and burn itself out with time, as is usual. But I do not discount this could be the start of the Big One. If it is, Israel will go after either Fatah or Hezbollah next. Fatah may stay out of it if Israel promises them dominion over Gaza at the end of this, but there is probably no way to peace with Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon, and they must be neutralized before Israel goes after Iran. It is conceivable that instead of going after Hezbollah directly, they could try and incite a new civil war in Lebanon that will suck in Hezbollah, and keep them busy and depleted as Israel deals with Iran. It is the same strategy as what is occurring in Syria, a major Iranian ally. Look for signs of instability in Lebanon. Also, Israel must keep Egypt neutral. Israel will probably lean on us hard to lean on Egypt to the greatest extent possible.

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:46 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

What a bunch of apologists for insanity.

I'm not taking sides, I'm saying that it is FUBAR there.

Oh hey, let's see 50 more years of back and forth killing and incursions; that's a solution.

So, either the Jews leave Israel altogether and the entire region goes to the Muslims or the Muslims are subdued to the point they don't shoot missiles and rockets into Israel, or send their children strapped with explosives for some dream of 72 virgins and holy suicide.  It is all fucking crazy, but most seem to want the craziness continue.

I have yet to hear solutions.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:09 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

Islam has invaded and conquered parts of the West twice in history - when the current nation of Israel was nowhere in sight.  What do the Jews have to do with Islamic desires to conquer the West?  Since they were after the West before the modern nation of Israel was formed, why would we think they would lose interest in conquering the West again if the modern nation of Israel is done away with?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Foul Harold
Foul Harold's picture

+1

 

6 million Joos or 600 million Caliphatists, who is more dangerous?  My money is on the latter.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Israel‘s escalating air attacks on Gaza follow the depressingly familiar pattern that shapes this conflict. Overwhelming Israeli force slaughters innocent Palestinians, including children, which is preceded (and followed) by far more limited rocket attacks into Israel which kill a much smaller number, rocket attacks which are triggered by various forms of Israeli provocations  —

I am so SICK of these anti Semite HATERS.

Never do they bring up the real FACTS.When you have rebel forces setting up ROCKET LAUNCHERS in and around residential area's, and schools, and hospitals..............TO MAKE SURE INNOCENTS are killed,for nothing more than PUBLIC OPINION,and to sway the MSM Commies.

CNN Has been caught RED HANDED posting FAKE pics of Palestinian kids dead, or wounded,how much more stupid do you get?

The Palestinians should be killing the leaders of HAMAS.

They are guilty of killing their people.One would hope by now, they would figure out WHY they are bombed and shelled.................Israel doesn't do it for the hell of it.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:40 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

I lost all sympathy for the "Palestinians" when I saw the pictures of them celebrating and passing out sweets when the rocket killed that pregnant jewish woman two days ago.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:09 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I lost sympathy when the Mofos were dancing after 9-11-2001.

Fuck 'em.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 08:50 | Link to Comment Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Dancing after 9-11?  You mean the dancing Israelis?  Who "came to record" the attacks?  And were went back to Israel unindicted, thanks to the intervention of the execrable Micheal Chertoff?  Come on.  Wake up.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:32 | Link to Comment delacroix
Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Nuke Mecca and Jerusalem just for the lulz.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:05 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

yes i have stated that usa operations in the middle east are all about strategic envelopment of iran and the first victim will be syria which now gives israel a free hand in accomplishing all that it wishes to accomplish...unfortunately damascus will be obliterated, but such a move by the usa will be a strategic blunder of the first order....iran survives

the neo-con caligulas planned all of this during the 1970s and 80s....the invasion and occupation of the middle east is both a liberal and neo-con objective....they are both murderous savage barbarians....fuck them all to hell...

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:13 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

... the invasion and occupation of the middle east is both a liberal and neo-con objective.

If that statement were true, it would have happened already.  We've had the ability for a long time.  Why would we not just do it if we had the desire and the ability??

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The Israel Internet Propaganda Defense Force is in early tonight!

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

when do we get back to considering the positive impacts of QE5 on the equity markets?

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

You pretty much nailed that one lolmao500, it is a well organized effort and their system is not unknown to those familiar with these type of issues that come up on blog's and comment boards. This is professional stuff and it is carefully crafted as part of official propaganda efforts inside my nation. That's right, I am American, not Israeli. That means something to me.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:49 | Link to Comment ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Right there with you Jack. You brought your A game tonight.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 02:52 | Link to Comment Pink Floyd
Pink Floyd's picture

You are over-estimating the IDF.

Consider its blunders in the past 30 years or so..., then think again.

 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 03:14 | Link to Comment SWIFT 760
SWIFT 760's picture

PF, you zionist anti-American piece of shit. True American Patriots know israel is not an ally.

Your support of israel is barbaric. If you reside in US, get the fuck out. Go wander aimlessly as this is no jew homeland.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 07:07 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Israel is an ally, but Not a Special Friend. They run one of the top 5 espionage games against the US.

You have to know when to back them, when not to.

No more USS Libertys.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

War doctrine states, whoever takes the moral high ground wins.  Neither Hamas, nor the IDF have left the canyon.  Civilians are not legitimate targets.  Their injury only serves to add fuel to the blaze.  

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 01:23 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

When the enemy places rocket launchers in schoolyards, homes, and other public places, civilians are not targets - legitimate or otherwise.  They are human shields.  Put into that position by the owners of the rocket launchers.  Any damage to the civilians is the direct responsibility of those who placed the rocket launchers in proximity to them.

The time will come when survival will depend on taking out all of the rocket launchers, regardless of where they are placed.  You be the one to decide:  kill the human shields when you destroy the rocket launchers; or don't destroy the rocket launchers and you are responsible for the deaths of those that the launched rockets kill.  Either way you choose, someone is going to get killed.  Think carefully about the choice you must make here.  When it is kill or be killed, guess who loses.

That is not a defense of Israel.  It is a defense of anyone whose enemies place rocket launchers in the middle of civilian populations.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:37 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What's next? War on Iran and/or Lebanon.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 23:42 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

whatever as long as it keeps me distracted from everything in the vicinity totally going to shit.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:07 | Link to Comment New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Aziz you idiot, how do you bring Iran into this?  Where did Iran come from in your rant?   Your logic is Netanyahuish.   Hamas is not Iran's, it is in the Wahhabi's organization.  Hezbollah is Iranian, not Hamas.   The Wahhabi are the ones going from Libya to Syria and running guns with the U.S from there through first Israel, then Turkey   It was the Wahhabi that killed Ambassador Stevens and crew.   Iran is no where in this picture.   Saudi Arabia IS HAMAS.   Saudi Arabia IS AL QEADA.  Jezz... with a name like Aziz, you'd think you'd have a better grip on things here mate.

www.electanewcongress.com   To read "On Liberty" tri-essay go to http://electanewcongress.com/the-liberty-trilogy-series/#.UKV3rmd9iCk

For some reason, Tyler censors my work, but everyone else finds it is quite good...  but take a look for yourself.   Serfs Up America!

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

he knows something

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

A ground invasion, and a reoccupation of Gaza by the IDF could be the first step toward engaging Iran.

 

Or it could be the first step to just stopping the rockets

 

It would allow for Israel to dislodge Hamas,

 

No more rockets, good.

 

and create a buffer between Israel and Egypt

 

No more arms smuggling, good,

 

 and the forces of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

No more oppression of copts and christians, good

 

The Morsi government in Egypt has pledged to support the Palestinians —

 

Eypgt is no longer a country it is now a country under shariah, which is not really a country but part of a larger movement

 

but is this a bluff?

 

Irrelevant

 

Does Egypt have the capability or the desire to really oppose Israel?

 

Irrelevant

 

Does Iran really have the capability or the desire to oppose Israel in a more active way?

 

Yes, we all know they do and if they are not stopped a point will come where they cannot be stopped. Ask the Argentines if you should assume Iran will stop after they finish Israel.

 

Ultimately, Iran may have no choice, as Netanyahu is certain that they are on the nuclear threshold. The world is in motion. Israel is playing its cards. The intent? To create facts on the ground that cement Israel’s position as the dominant power in the middle east for the next century.

 

They already are the dominant power and being able to survive as a nation and race is the concern. If they wanted to cement dominant over the region they could have done that anytime since the 1950s. On the other hand the arabs around them have steadily cleansed their lands of all secular government, christians, jews, gays, etc., etc. So who is it here that is really trying to be dominant?

 

Israel knows the shites are crazy and actually believe all their end of the world surahs, same as the fundamentalist christians in Kansas. Most Israelis I know just want to go to school, get a job, raise a family and retire same as anyone else. Its hard to do that when surrounded by millions of people whose duty is to kill them to the last man, dontcha think?

 

All the jew hating on this site is probably just america hating because the two countries are allies, or at least they were before Obama arose. Left needs someone they can hate; cannot hate blacks, gays, even cannot hate pedos, but jews are still fair game for the left.

 

 

Now, Iran’s move.

 

They have been making their move for the last ten years in case you have not noticed.

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