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Niall Ferguson On China's Gold And The "Tremendous Flux In International Order"

Tyler Durden's picture


"This is a time of tremendous flux in the international order" is how Harvard's Niall Ferguson describes the world in which we live as he opines expertly on the change in China, Europe's pending 'lost decade', and the Middle East's post-Arab Spring disestablishment of the 1970s 'order' with GoldMoney's Alasdair Macleod. From China's need to begin privatizing SOEs and globalizing the RMB (with an interesting focus on the introduction of reliable property rights to 'enable' the middle class) to concerns about its large dollar holdings (and the top-down and bottom-up diversification into gold that continues); Ferguson notes that the ongoing attempt to diversify its wealth and revenues (stock and flow) is relatively limited by the ability to secure hard assets but adds that as the world's 'trade' center of gravity shifts east at a very fast pace so gold will flow from "the West to the rest" as Western power declines and the Asia bloc rises. A fascinating macro-economic and geo-political discussion that concludes with a shift through Russia's energy quagmire, Japan's debt problems, and the faulty design of the European Union.



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Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:24 | 2992574 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Fuck you Rothschilds! Any time you hear International anything. Know thw purpose is to hurt you and consolidate the Rothschild's power.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:25 | 2992580 Perpetual Burn
Perpetual Burn's picture

Oh, okay bro.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:27 | 2992620 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Just as they did in Russia, Rothschild agents will purchase state assets in rigged auctions for pennies on a dollar.

Rothschild central banks will control a convertible fiat currency.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 06:09 | 2993252 Popo
Popo's picture

Holy shit, lay off the ludes Niall.  When did he start talking so slowly?   I couldn't bare the eternal wait for each and every word.   Normally I give Niall a listen -- although he is very much a voice for the status quo -- but this talk is just unbearable.  


I....          don't. ...              have....                  all....               day. ...              Niall....               Talk.  ....               faster.....               next.  ....              time...  


Jesus.  WTF.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 08:42 | 2993321 clymer
clymer's picture

A couple of facts about Ferguson; He was allowed personal access to Heinz Kissinger to write a carefully crafted biography. About as "carefully" as he chooses his words in this interview. His participation in the institute for international economics, documentaries espousing the benefits of the IMF and world bank, his closenness with the global financial power brokers, and the manner with which he "toes the line" for this power structure is well understood by anyone that has watched more than one interview with him.

How many times did he say "international order" in this interview?

That being said, it is important to watch him and other NWO mouth pieces to get an accurate guage on the globalist mindset in relation to current events.

No one ever said he wasn't smart.

He does however subscribe to the ideology that a small supra-national group should orchestrate nation states, global events- which of course is antithesis to American traditions. At least it used to be prior to the beginning of the last century (after which of course the global banking cartel obtained control of America from within).

Niall represents a system where a small few manage the world in secret, and to their own ends. Controlling money, oil and food behind closed doors to steer humanity in a manner that benefits only them.

We wish to restore the American system, where human progress is unleashed by the creative, entrpreneurial energy of freedom. We believe that we can overcome any obstacle, including the challenges with population and environmental degradation - so long as all people are provided open and honest information and can participate in defining the solution; not have it secretly rammed down our throats by a small, camera-shy group that operates while hidden in shadows.



Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:30 | 2993352 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Gold is autonomous....get thee some and be so yourself....that is all bitchez.


Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:50 | 2993366 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

Niall Ferguson to Attend Bilderberg 2012 (?)
Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:35 | 2992605 A_S
A_S's picture

protectionism is the way to go !!

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:26 | 2992582 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

Ferguson is an NWO shill....piece of shit...garbage..scum.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:39 | 2992614 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Niall Ferguson is smart and learned and often interesting

And indeed also a CIA guy supporting the American war machine ...

Tied to the CIA intellectual apparatus, CFR Council on Foreign Relations etc., Ferguson is that most dangerous kind of CIA shill ...

He says a lot of stuff that looks quite critical of the USA-Britain on several levels ... and every now and then, shows his real agenda, how he in fact supports the American empire and its war and torture machine

He is one of their in-house critics trying to help the oligarchs to rule the world more successfully and thoroughly

One of those too-clever sell-out arseholes at Harvard etc. ... Corporate media darling, the pseudo 'critic' who ultimately supports the oligarch gangsters

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:49 | 2992630 A_S
A_S's picture

Avez vous des examples specifiques de votre accusations?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:51 | 2992632 Absalon
Absalon's picture

Ferguson is a moron.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:12 | 2992656 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Absalon? You pick many "algos", ?  Goat fucker!

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:57 | 2992718 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Yes Bank Guy, I appreciate your take on Ferguson. I began to suspect he is just what you say he his after going deeper into his writings and lectures. Now after looking at his work, I begin to think he is a complete New World Order operative, and sounds like the perfect intellectual agent to work with the CIA in it's efforts to spread corporate control via the US military and the US intelligence agencies.

He has come out very much in support of the US war machine and all wars that serve to subjegate the nations of the Middle East, i.e. where the oil is. I think he loves the CHinese model in which a suplus of labor, even highly skilled labor, can be exploited for maximum profit. He clearly believes the 1% are given to us by God and we should worship them and the christian god who backs their power and wealth with his sanctions.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:00 | 2992724 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Sounds like Jim Rickards too.........

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 03:16 | 2993189 bushwarcrime
bushwarcrime's picture

exactly, I wonder why the "company" would let a guy like Rickards write what he does and say what he does, it sounds like gold pumping to me

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:26 | 2992769 Obadiah
Obadiah's picture

You mean satan who plays a christian god on tevee... right?  not capital G?


I just want to know exactly where you stand here

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:18 | 2993484 cifo
cifo's picture

Right. One cannot criticize US and have a Harvard position at the same time.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 04:20 | 2993219 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

I can only give 1 arrow up unfortunately - not the +100 that the observation deserves.  I could not listen to the entire interview - I wanted to smash his cocksucker face in, and suffered from the frustration of not being able to do so.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:28 | 2992589 magpie
magpie's picture

How's the Kissinger biography going

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:29 | 2992593 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Ferguson - sponosored by the elites for the elites bringing you history that provides the elites their mandate.

Control the past - control the current. Control the current - control the future.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:44 | 2992621 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

- r.a.t.m.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:47 | 2992628 magpie
magpie's picture

George Orwell, 1984

(and of course, Battle of Los Angeles)

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 08:56 | 2993328 old naughty
old naughty's picture

"Control the past - control the current. Control the current - control the future."

They're wrong.

There's no past, no future.

All matrix illusions.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:46 | 2992627 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    mc_ PBoC?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:41 | 2992803 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

I'll be honest - no longer LDN based. Blame it on banking. Back in NZ where all you have to deal with are hobbits.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:01 | 2992723 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

mc_LDN, Very good! +100. I love this; "bringing you history that provides the elites their mandate." Perfectly said, this is indeed what he is all about!

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:13 | 2994453 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Pricey Propaganda:

The World's Banker A History of the House of Rothschild
Niall Ferguson
London, Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1999; Price: £30.00 

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 20:30 | 2992595 A_S
A_S's picture

too much conspiracy nuts on zh, not good for our image

please go back to alex jones' website

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:03 | 2992649 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Too much "spicey sauce". A_S looking for Sunday "yuan fix", After PBoC shitty housing numbers?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:12 | 2992655 A_S
A_S's picture

unfortunatly conspiracy theorists are MAD

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:15 | 2992660 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You suk/em (housing numbers) PBoC release on Frog Day. You Check soon? No paycheck?

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:19 | 2992665 A_S
A_S's picture

Don't care about the numbers, i don't trade. I'm a pimp, always good business, people stay horny.


greetings from belgium

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:41 | 2992700 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Sick puppy. You get eaten soon.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 05:40 | 2993242 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Two trolls talking to each other. How nice

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:19 | 2993344 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

LMAO!  Sunday humor...

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:16 | 2993396 clymer
clymer's picture

A.S., you have been on mommy's computer for a while now. Time for bed. Off you go.

Let the adults chat, eh?

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:23 | 2993496 A_S
A_S's picture

Alex jones fans usually have a very adult way of thinking and have the great capabilty every adult should have of seeing the difference between perception and reality

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:53 | 2993371 Fred C Dobbs
Sun, 11/18/2012 - 13:48 | 2993746 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Alex Jones / Libertarians are decoys, plutocrats can't ask for more.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:43 | 2992624 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That guy will playing in the ashes... Looking for an electrical outlet to commit " Ritual Suicide"...

   Grandmas Boy, part deux...


Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:23 | 2992668 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Ferguson is sincerely worried about his future and is latching onto the elite but he senses what is coming down. So his analysis is not out of order but very biased towards what Harvard preaches. He talks about a 1 party government when the US has a 1 party government that controls a two party system. He also talks about the rule of law and does not mention that the rule of law has been eliminated in the West. It is difficult to take him seriously. Actually he is much better at historic facts, things that have already taken place, rather than to speculate towards what is coming about. I do not think he likes China's advance without its finances being subject to the West's banking system.

The host was much easier to believe.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:49 | 2992694 magpie
magpie's picture

I was looking forward to a simple yes or no on the gold standard given interviewer and audience but which was not forthcoming; then i wonder what he spoke about in his speech to the Austrians. There were times he was touting a debt jubilee, but nowdays he (and his handlers obviously) are more worried about bullion outflows and the ability or lack of ability of Asian countries to foster cooperation in international institutions like the SCO. As for China's internal development, he says himself that it wouldn't make that much difference whatever they do since any stagnation or crash is almost two decades away. 


Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:14 | 2993391 clymer
clymer's picture

When he mentions china, he basically says, "Well, there are only a handful of people that steer China. We want only a handful of people to steer China as well,  but we want them to be our people.."

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 12:29 | 2993569 magpie
magpie's picture

Pity then we won't ever have the opportunity to see the Bo Xilai/Heywood tandem in action...

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:21 | 2992669 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

Depressing interview.


So America is fucked.


Man ....wait until the kids find out.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:22 | 2992671 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Ferguson has a reputation for having a mind.  I've read a lot of his stuff, and I still don't see it.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:33 | 2992690 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

It's obvious he hasn't been back to Glasgow for a while.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:02 | 2992732 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Back in Glasgow he wouldn't last long on the streets! It can be a tough place.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:23 | 2992759 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

Right, especially with his affected Gordon Brown accent. Glesga Kiss would be in order.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:34 | 2992691 booboo
booboo's picture

all the while getting the kiddies all prepped to fight the orient again with Hollywood productions. Now the norks are invading our land in movies, bwahahahaha America..fuck yea

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:56 | 2992709 AUD
AUD's picture
A Champion from Central Casting

The author, as the flyleaf of his book reminds us, is not just some academic hack. He is the Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History at Harvard. He's also a best-selling author whose titles include Paper and Iron, The House of Rothschild, The Pity of War, The Cash Nexus, Empire, Colossus and The War of the World. He "...writes regularly for newspapers and magazines all over the world. He has written and presented four highly successful television documentary series for Channel 4: Empire, American Colossus, The War of the World and, most recently, The Ascent of Money."

In short, he is precisely the man to whom you would turn if you needed a credible voice to calm the mass mind and defend the basis of your power, if an unfolding crisis had conclusively revealed the fraud beneath it all, and was showing signs of getting out of hand. And The Ascent of Money is precisely what you'd get, if your man delivered the goods.........

With the foundation of his theory now laid, Professor Ferguson delivers the money shot, as it were:

What the conquistador's failed to understand is that money is a matter of belief, even faith: belief in the person paying us; belief in the person issuing the money he uses or the institution that honours his cheques or transfers. Money is not metal. It is trust inscribed. And it does not seem to matter much where it is inscribed: on silver, on clay, on paper, on a liquid crystal display. [p. 30]
So there you have it, the Harvard Theory of Money: Money is credit, from the Latin credere, to believe. How elegant the phrasing: 'trust inscribed'. How catastrophic the consequences. For everyone, that is, but the lucky few running the scam.

From 'The Ascent of Hooey', by Robert K. Landis

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:06 | 2992739 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Post Master General/AUD          Sweetness!

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:19 | 2992748 Obadiah
Obadiah's picture

Excellent "slice n dice"  thx AUD


"Trust inscribed" Fuck you banker get the fuck out of our united States of America.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 23:17 | 2992860 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

Ferguson did not deceive directly, rather, he left out some critical facts.


  1. People would trust a money backed by gold even more.
  2. Money is a Product.
Sat, 11/17/2012 - 22:27 | 2992774 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

This guy sounds like an idiot trying to lecture China about the need for the rule of law that the leadership is not above when we are clearly tossing it aside. His support for toppling the Iranian regime tells me all I need to know about him. He's a shill for the war machine, and a NWO pig. I won't waste any more time listening to him.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 23:06 | 2992841 blindman
blindman's picture

oh, "another arrogant asshole prick wanting desperately
to prolifically dictate and vicariously pontificate his world view to the servants
he would so richly prefer not to pay for their services and products. oh, fuck him and his kind where they breath, thank you very much" .
here i paraphrase what she said upon listening to this
dialogue. i offered a drink and some softer lighting
and a blanket where she may find some comfort and
slumber: eternity commenced and the night became day
once again.
she added "neither of these fucktards can feed themselves
yet they perceive themselves as masters of the servants
of the masters of the universe, are they thinking this
is high comedy and they are the humorists?"
i said nothing and fell into deeper sleep than usual.

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 23:17 | 2992861 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Who am I Blind MAN?  Yen?   Don"t Bull Shit me

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 00:31 | 2993009 blindman
blindman's picture

i say, in direct response to your direct
question, you are the universe, all of it.
made of it, it, in it, of it, no different.
you are me, you are i, you are it, all of it everything.
don't let the fragmentation of perspective fool
you. imagination produces that perspective but
also provides the groundwork for producing all
other perspectives, all of it, so be kind and know
it is all eternal in the illusion of past and future.
you only do to you what you have stored in you for
either that or / and i have no idea what your inquiry
might be? people talk about bullshit and they talk
about god and etc...
it is all based on the sound of the universe and
words, neurological reminisce and circuits, experience
coded in complexity and it is about integrating the
physical matter and the energetic vibrational energy
producing consciousness, then evolving that consciousness
to the place where truth plays majestic symphonic
and rhapsodic chambers of music. unfolding in
dreaming, life is a child's dream or as has been
said " a fire fly in the winter's night ".
that is what i am, so, you must be that too?
do not under estimate the beauty and power of
bullshit i say, it is the essential truth of the
matter, ecology and science !

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 00:58 | 2993058 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Blind Man, I read your post. You should go deer hunting with me , in the Sierras.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 02:56 | 2993175 blindman
blindman's picture

sounds good but i don't eat meat. i live
by the water and eat fish, we should go

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:04 | 2993335 old naughty
old naughty's picture


well said.

I'd like to join you by the water, someday soon.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:37 | 2993521 blindman
blindman's picture

are you familiar with the south shore
of long island, gilgo, jones beach,
tobay, long beach? those places?
surf fishing with lures? that's the plan !
of course things are different now , road
and state/town park damage, etc... but...
and then there is impending ww III,
total financial collapse, chaotic social
disorder and displacement to fill the days,
not to mention the ensuing mental illness
which has become evident due to unusual
stress and infrastructure damage.
but .. the fish don't care.
if it is possible i say off to the beach
is the sound choice. i was there the day before
to look around and met up with the metal detector
crowd looking for gold and stuff, treasure hunters !

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 00:03 | 2992916 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Color me shocked. Did you think I’ve been bullshitting you since the inception of my Atomizer account? What fucking fools you are. Pick yourselves off the floor & get sobered up. You have a lot of work ahead of you.


This is not a request, but an order. Get your asses in gear!! We have too much talent to go to waste, let the fight club prevail..


Sat, 11/17/2012 - 23:51 | 2992923 swabeyjw
swabeyjw's picture

Ferguson, does not rank USA legal systems well. He points out rule of law is declining due to dollar driven corruption.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 03:29 | 2993197 Silvertrader
Silvertrader's picture

Goldstandard or not. I love trading gold using CFD's. It makes me a lot of money every month.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 04:55 | 2993230 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

From China's need to begin privatizing SOEs and globalizing the RMB (with an interesting focus on the introduction of reliable property rights to 'enable' the middle class)

More fabled past, as 'americans' love it. See how 'american' intellectuals whose training engulfed so many resources and whose work keep engulfing so much are unable to produce a line of thought without relying on fabled past.

Indeed, 'americanism' is spreading in China and a push by 'american' middle class is increasing by day.

But an 'american' middle class is not enabled by reliable property rights. As shown by established 'americans', an 'american' middle class is enabled by unreliable property rights as the 'american' government needs to find some generous willing sponsors for them to transfer their wealth and it be redistributed to enable the 'american' middle class. This is how it works in 'americanism'.

So time for the 'americans' in China to find those indians so they can take from them and redistribute to the 'american' middle class.

While indeed 'americanism' is all about 'american' freedom, truth and justice, a little bird is telling me that candidates to play the part of indians so to power the 'american' dream in China, are not rushing to the doors, to apply for the job.

Reads like, in spite of all the nobility of the 'american' project, candidates are not that eager of sacrifying themselves.

'American' populations around the world are in a different stages.

Going to be hard for the Chinese to find those Indians because more established 'americans' have saturated the environment. Indians are the scarce commodity of these days.

Most potential target: the shaking 'american' middle class in more established 'american' nations. Who else?
Place your suggestions because the demand by 'americans' in china will grow stronger and stronger.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 06:53 | 2993267 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

George 'AnAnonymous' Dishwashington said:

So time for the 'americans' in China to find those indians so they can take from them and redistribute to the 'american' middle class.

Chinese citizenism middle class (which is the emperor class, the voting class in Chinese citizenism society) starting now to blobbing up the bigtime. Chinese citizenism middle class multi-year plan of indian extinguishment begins with placement of feathered headdress on top of Tibetan heads in the Tibet.

a little bird is telling me that candidates to play the part of indians so to power the 'american' dream in China, are not rushing to the doors, to apply for the job.

Confusious say, "man who listens to little bird is guided by birdbrain."

Tibetan candidates playing the part of indians so to power the Chinese citizenism middle class up-blobbing dream are not rushing to the doors, to apply for the job. Reason being that Chinese citizenism middle class, the emperor class, has provided incentive for Tibetans to bypass job application and play the part of indians 'voluntarily':

Reads like, in spite of lack of nobility of the Chinese citizenism middle class AnAnonymous project, whole communauty of Tibetan candidates are eager of sacrifying themselves.

That is what Chinese citizenism middle class voted for and, being the emperor class, the voting class, that is their entitlement.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 07:50 | 2993297 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'Americans' hiding behind Tibetans.

The number of things 'americans' want to justify with that story echoes their nature: fractional lending.

Out of one act, 'americans' will justify hundreds...

Of course, when you look at this property and apply it to all the 'americans' waiting on the sidelines, you understand the potential.

It will take much more than the Tibetans to install an 'american' middle class in China.

And all the 'americans' in China will act 'american' wayish, that is looking for symetry else.

And just by taking the US as a source, it will skyrocket fast.

Keeping in mind, that one act should give rationalization for dozens other acts.

Enjoy the future as brought to you by the 'american' world.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 07:41 | 2993285 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Ferguson is still repeating the fable that the Chinese government is "encouraging" its citizens to buy gold. He should know better.

 Please search for any original source for this myth. If you do find an official pronouncement like that, please post it here on ZH. I have never found it.

(that CCTV footage that is always cited is just a news item on another silver/gold seller opening shop--a western commentator called it "official encouragement" and the whole fable spread from there)

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 07:51 | 2993300 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

He should know better.

Why? 'Americans' love fables.

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 09:47 | 2993362 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

So I am getting..... That China cannot proceed as a copycat US, because it is ruled behind the scenes by a small group of people that do not have its best interests at heart. He is talking about China needing to create a true rule of law! In conclusion, the world is shifting East and the US$/Euro money owners are not in control. Niall is completely invested that the "right" people should be in charge.

So here is a made up scenario. The US$/ Euro money printers need to increase the destabilization process so a political situation occurs that China is controlled by the same group that controls the US$/Euro money. Obviously a big war would help, the Chinese think that if they do nothing the West will collapse ala East Germany. By nothing I mean, actually trading in a capitalistic manner and respecting other countries right to self determination. If the war does not happen and China accumulates enough gold the US may need to peg to the yuan.

How many years before the US pegs to the Yuan?

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 14:37 | 2993890 epwpixieq-1
epwpixieq-1's picture

Mr. Ferguson is one of these people who sees underlying relations and is trying to explain them. Regrettably with little understanding of fundamental practical knowledge and the fundamental forces in Nature, the human history, as well as the ideas abtout wealth, are very much distorted.

Just for one, in Nature, wealth is nothing more but HOW MUCH ENERGY a living organism is being able to transform, and possibly retain for future use, from the FLOW of Energy around it.

Money, and all accumulated things, (in human terms ) are always function if the future benefits one an get from them, and their rate of accumulations is the derivative of this same function.

Ergo, there is no point of accumulating something, if one can not get benefits (in human terms) or force/work ( in Nature's terms/laws ) out of it.

Wealth in the industrial world, at least, for the last 200-300 years, has always been, explicitly derived as, a function of the Energy one is able to transform form the environment ( note I ma saying TRANSFORM and not create/extract and other absolutely wrongly used verbs ). So considering that the Energy is UNLIMITED the wealth, technically defined as energy transformation is only a function of the TECHNOLOGY being able to TRANSFORM (utilize/retain) this Energy, is also UNLIMITED.

As this is not standard, BS type, thinking about wealth, in order one to be able to start to understand these concepts one just has to think: How much "wealth", one would need in order to cool the Earth 5 degrees Celsius or to warm it up 5 degrees Celsius. Or even in more drastic "example": Now much "wealth" one would need to rotate the Earth 1 year round the Sun.

The answer of such, in some case hypothetical question, is ONLY possible in the REAL wealth of the Natural world - ENERGY. For at the end, the more ENERGY an organism ( society, given culture ) TRANSFORMS from the flow of Energy in the Natural world, the more wealth it has in the fundamental (Natural) form, everything else is derivative of this TRANSFORM function.

And for one thing, these are definitely not a Social science questions.

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