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Broke Beggars Again Are Choosers: Greece Refuses To Comply With Latest Troika Demands
It has been a while since broke Greece, which has been begging Europe for the 5 month delayed €31.5 billion tranche, which will be used to pay the ECB and other German banks, and not to enter the Greek economy, was a chooser. Today, the little country that could not, has once again stretched its feeble repo'ed muscles:
- GREEK OFFICIAL SAYS GOVERNMENT WON'T ACCEPT NEW TROIKA REQUEST
- GREEK OFFICIAL SAYS TROIKA WANTS 20,000 STATE EMPLOYEE SACKINGS
- GREEK OFFICIAL SAYS COALITION PARTIES TO SET UP C'TEE FOR GOVT
Perhaps Greece forgot to clarify "by email" but certainly by fax, telex, or even carrier pigeon, because once the Troika calls it bluff, the "lost in translation" explanations will commence. Until then, the farce continues.
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and the market rally continue on hope greece deal will come out tomorrow.
http://www.freefdawatchlist.com/p/stockcharts.html
You lend me money, I can't pay it back. I have a problem? No, YOU have a problem!
Greece agrees to austerity, gets the money, refuses austerity!
How many times???
Hey, what's that on your shirt (I flink your nose)
Hey, what's that on your shirt (I flink your nose)
Hey, what's that on your shirt (I flink your nose)
Hey, what's that on your shirt (I flink your nose)
Hey, what's that on your shirt (I flink your nose)
Long molotov cocktails
Jenius! Jenius, I say!
Was this guy making the statement the Energy Minister, or the Minister of Parks and Recreation?
@ vinayjha
Yep, and the reason: Greek officals are of no importants whatsoever on Greek matters anymore.
Advice for the Greeple: agree with the EU, take the money and use it to buy weapons from Hamas.
The money goes from ECB or IMF into a 3rd party escrow account and disbursed from there into various banks, mostly German and French. What's left goes to Greeks but only if they deliver Zeus signature that he will honor the bills.
Greeks will never see the money which is all too clear and everyone who is trying to persuade the Greeks to sign off on the deal is complicit in the fellony.
Greece, take a walk on the very wild side. Let the German banks blow up on their "risk" appetite for sovereign debt which they damn well knew, could never be repaid. The sooner the German banks blow up, the quicker the global reset can happen.
Greece is no longer the issue. This is about saving Germany's banks without exposing Germany's overall debt rating and ability to raise money. Once Greece defaults, Germany is toast unless they unwind the EURO and all obligations within minutes thereafter.
I'm sure Germany has CDS on Greek debts, so the Federal Reserve, via American banks, will bail out Germany if Greece goes into complete default.
Greece is planning on spending around 30 billion euros more than it takes in taxes, for 2012 thru 2015:
http://www.minfin.gr/content-api/f/binaryChannel/minfin/datastore/8d/78/...
The Greeks are seeing the money, how do you think 26,000 people are going to stop working and start collecting government pensions each year, while 6000 more public servants get added to the dole?
You're out of date. The PSI erased almost all private bank exposure to Greece. The entities being bailed out are Official Sector (EU, ECB and IMF). They hold the 200+ billion Euros of debt.
The PSI rolled privately held debt into 30 year paper and that amount of that is only about 30 Billion. At 4ish%. So in any year, the "banks" are only waiting for 120 million Euros, vs the Troika who need about 5 Billion per quarter.
Forget the banks. They aren't players anymore. The ballgame is now all about Euro leaders facing their voters and telling them either 1) I am lending more taxpayer money to Greece to keep it going or 2) The taxpayer money I already loaned Greece is not going to be repaid and is gone.
That's the choice. The EU leaders would LOVE for this refusal to agree to this extra austerity to be confirmed by Greece's Parliament. Then they can tell their own voters "See? Greece screwed us." Or presently the hope is the IMF won't sign on to some measures, in which case they can blame the IMF. This way no specific EU leader becomes responsible for Greece's explosion.
This is specifically a problem created by the euro currency zone countries. Therefore it is certainly hard to see how any justification is there for the taxpayers of the remainder countries of the European Union or of other nations (primarily American taxpayers wrt the IMF) to continue pouring money down the bottomless pit of Greece or any other euro zone country in need of further and future bailout...ESPECIALLY, when the ECB and euro currency zone countries themselves plan not to take haircuts on their own debts that have been soaking up the loaned monies.,,and, of course, Greece insisting on keeping its bloated public sector and government bennies flowing to the cronies, far and wide. They all need to be told to take a flying hike.
As I have said before...
Owe the bankers a couple of hundred million euros and you can't pay it's your problem...
Owe the bankers a couple of hundred billion euros and you can't pay? It's the ECB's problem.
+ another 20 S&P 500 points! Yay!
Doesn't matter, AAPL is up 6% today so everything must be fine again.
You know that feeling you get at the top of the roller coaster run right before the next plunge while your eyeballs pop out?
Something worse this way me thinks comes...
Germany wants to "drive" home the point on Greece with or without grease.
Spain, come in please, we need a headshot!!
BOOM.....man down.
MEDIC!!!!
Ben!!
You mean shot in the head.
Don't you?
That shot will come eventually. Northern Europe. No problem. Blow that fiatface off.
See socialism works ! Forward ! Lean over !
Oh for criminey sakes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pChZeIE_3o
Archimedes: "Leverage can be a bitch, too"
Give me a place to squat and my movement will delever the world.
Is this what they call the Archimedes Screw?
Weren't they supposed to run out of money on the 16th or something like that? Why are we still alive to be talking about this?
I'm still waiting to use my quip about "what part of DEADline did you not understand??"
They issued short-term debt last week.
Patience Grasshopper.....
Let them eat cake
Greece has the ECB by their bum pubes. They (ECB) will be shitting tungsten on the 21st!
Of December? 2012?
Pay. Or pay not.
There is no Troika.
--Debt Advisor Yoda
might want to set a short around 1387. 50% retrace of the 1433 to 1340 move on the /es. make sure you put a stop on it so it doesn't kill your account if it takes a moon-jump.
ohh they will !!! They will take this time with full penetration together with balls and some hair.
So now the bailout is off?
Yepper...the market is a forward looking mechanism.
HAHAHAHA
Like no one saw this coming.
Expect Mr. Boner to also recant his all is well, we'll do wha the democrats want speech.
It's Thanksgiving... time for toe-tapping in the mens room before the holiday break....then break for christmas.....then break for new years....then break for......
Vote for "Emergency powers" for Hitl--, er, Chancellor Palpa--, er, the Obamatron!
EVERY one of you buttwipes that voted for the incumbents deserve what's comin' to ya!
Why is the Euro rallying on this?
Intelligence of the market has dropped considerably under current managed care programs.
In my simplistic view, I tend to see the EU countries sort of like the US states in terms of issuing debt in a currency they can't print themselves. As such, I don't really see the EU allowing Greece or any other member state to default, any more than I see the feds allowing CA, NY or any of several other brokedick states defaulting. The central banks will just add more layers of opaque bailout programs and monetize all governmental debt (and a lot of corporate/private debt too). That will kick the can down the road for awhile. Inflation will continue to rise. Wash, rinse, repeat. The endgame is global monetization of debt, and to me the parlor game is figuring out which currency will face a confidence crisis first. For USD, I just don't see things getting really bad - as in blood in the streets bad - unless and until China, et al. are able to replace the petrodollar for a meaningful portion of oil trade. But even so, as long as the US government can keep feeding people, which it probably can given domestic production, I don't see massive unrest happening anytime soon. Just a long, slow decay into mass poverty-level existence for a lot of people. Sadly, I think the only thing that will prevent that is another world war or something of that magnitude.
In the US, I fully expect to see something like what happens in bankruptcy with pensions, where they are turned over to the PBGC and benefits capped. I think states and other public pension funds will eventually be given the opportunity to hand over control to the PBGC (or something they create like it). There are sovereignty issues with that, but then again GM/Chrysler bankruptcies showed that previously enshrined rights and legal concepts will be ignored when it is politically expedient. The federal government is going to start backstopping or outright nationalizing pretty much all entitlement programs.
Isss Jeenihus!
Jeenihus !;o)
When the troika came for the common mans job bread and butter the Greek government folded.
When the troika came for the government employees job, the Greek government grew a pair.
Shows you exactly what kinda people are in office in Greece.
Greece is heading for revolution, a lot of heads are going to be rolling REALLLLYYYYY SOOON, if you are in Greece and your wearing a suite, I would take it off really fast.... especially if you work for
-Govt
-Banks
Have you noticed that when the Troika demands new taxes, the Greek politicos happily oblige, but when the Troika starts talking about sacking public servants, the politicos go on strike?
Oh great bodily excrement Batman, put up your Umbrella!!!
Patterns of behavior rarely change:
FACT : Greece has never paid any of the money back that they have borrowed since the end of WWII
Now do the E-Trade baby shocked face...
that is absolutely not true. Many of the lenders got paid back, from fresh money borrowed from new lenders. As long as the supply of new lenders grows faster than the rate of outgoing payments, Greece can keep going.
Austerity is possible only as far as discretionary expenses go, and that's not very far in any economy.
Beyond that point, it's impossible to reverse the ways in which an economy has absorbed prior income flows. The Troika doesn't seem to understand that.
Telling Greeks to cut their spending twenty or thirty percent is like telling an eighteen year old man to return his physique back to its size at the age of thirteen.
Sure, the guy can lose his FAT. But keep up the "austerity" beyond that and he's going to die a concentration camp death.
The only way to make Greece more "efficient" is to shatter the political and economic system and re-build it. And that doesn't usually happen without quite a lot of bloodshed.
And oh yeah--that applies to the US with all its decades of credit-driven malinvestment, too.
Best of luck to the Troika. And to the USA Congress as it confronts the fiscal cliff...
Welcome to the world of irreversible thermodynamic processes!
So, you are saying it is impossible to reduce healthcare and pension spending? I disagree. It may not be popular, but certainly those costs can be reduced.
And exactly why should the average Greek support austerity via the TROIKA?
Greece, YOU just gotta NUB IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sure GS is there, showing them every move.
"Perhaps Greece forgot to clarify "by email" but certainly by fax, telex, or even carrier pigeon"
Does anyone still use Telex?? Last one I remember seeing was a Teletype model, and that was in the very early 1970's.
Thought telefacsimile was the death knell of telex (a la "Video Killed the Radio Star")
Anyone STILL using Telex "out there"???
I'll send ya a telegram (via pony express!), and let you know... (unless you can read smoke signals)