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Guest Post: More Lies About Your Taxes...

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

In 1936, the US government began circulating a series of pamphlets to explain its brand new Social Security program, plus the associated taxes. Initially, the Social Security tax was set at 2%. The government promised it would rise to 3% in 1949, with no additional increases EVER:

“[F]inally, beginning in 1949. . . you and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. That is the most you will ever pay.”

In 1949, the tax rose to 3% as scheduled. But it only took five years for the government to break its promise. The tax rose to 4% in 1954, 4.5% in 1957, 5% in 1959… and continued to rise for decades. On January 1st it will be 12.4%.

Politicians routinely make bold promises about tax policy... and they almost always end up being lies. Raising taxes, i.e. plundering the wealth of citizens, is one of the oldest tactics in the playbook for insolvent governments, and you can be 100% certain that your taxes will increase despite any promises to the contrary.

Perhaps most dangerously, politicians fail to understand that raising tax rates does NOT actually increase government tax revenue.

In the US, for example, government tax revenue has consistently been 17.7% of GDP since the end of World War II, plus/minus a very tight band. Similarly, the British government has consistently collected 35% of GDP in tax revenue.

Yet over the decades, tax rates have been all over the board... from 0% to over 90%! Plus variations in corporate profits tax, payroll tax, estate tax, capital gains tax, dividend tax, and (for the Brits) VAT.

Rates go up, rates go down... it doesn’t affect overall government tax revenue one bit. Despite the obvious facts, though, politicians keep raising tax rates.

On January 1, 2013, the US government will impose what my tax attorney calls the biggest tax increase in the history of the world. And some of the rate increases are simply extraordinary.

The estate tax exemption, for instance, is being slashed by EIGHTY PERCENT! And the amount that the Obama administration will tax the rest of your estate will increase to a whopping 55%!

Moreover, dividend tax rates are set to rise from 15% to as high as 43.4%. This affects not only US taxpayers, but everyone on the planet who invests in the US stock market.

Remember Finance 101– the price of a stock is theoretically the present value of discounted future cash flows. In English, this means that share prices should rise and fall based on the market’s expectations about future earnings… and over the long run, future dividends.

As a result of this tax policy, many investors who own shares in US companies will now see their after-tax dividends slashed by 33%. And since their investment returns are falling so dramatically, it stands to reason that the investments themselves become less valuable.

This is putting a lot of downward pressure on stock prices, affecting almost everyone who currently owns US shares– pension funds and retirement accounts, rich and middle class, US and non-US citizens alike. It’s as if the US government is hanging a sign over the country saying “PLEASE DO NOT INVEST HERE.” It’s genius.

This is the tip of the iceberg. Taxes will keep rising. Investment returns will be destroyed. Any incentive to start a business will be destroyed. Any benefit to your heirs for what you have worked your entire life to pass on will be destroyed.

All of this because a handful of morally bankrupt individuals who run financially bankrupt governments fail to understand simple truths about tax policy.

Bear this in mind over the next few weeks, because many new taxes will take effect on January 1st, and it’s imperative to take defensive action first. I strongly recommend consulting with your tax advisor as soon as possible.


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Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:34 | 2997322 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Fair share bitchez!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:39 | 2997335 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The "Fiscal Cliff" jargon was a well orchestrated psychological ploy to subvert the "Government Spending Cut" movement and shut them up. It worked like a charm on the sheeple.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:49 | 2997368 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Exactly, and for once Simon is on target.  Increasing taxes = increase in time I spend avoiding taxes, not writing a bigger check.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:53 | 2997386 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Hard assets

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:29 | 2997471 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Increasing taxes is nothing more than an excuse to raise spending. They will jawbone spending cuts, but those will never materialize, and the alleged cuts are nothing more than cuts in the rate of increase in spending.

And all the idiots talking about compromise make me laugh too. Like "compromise" will fix things. Compromise has gotten us into a 16 trillion dollar hole.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 04:27 | 2998115 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



When the colonists decided to emancipate from England taxes were 4% - 5%. 

Today Americans pay 50% of what they earn in taxes, and still no revolution. 

Instead they debate useless arguments like whether raising taxes nets more tax revenue or not, ignoring the glaring fact that they're paying half their earnings in taxes, 10 times more than the colonists when they declared independence from Engalnd and fought the revolutionary war.

Should the government take 50% or 53%?   Some say 53% wouldn't net any more revenue.  Some say it would.

It's like debating whether a mugger should just take your wallet or take your watch and wedding ring also. 

God, what dumbasses.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:49 | 3001398 Random
Random's picture

Spot on! And nobody asks the pivotal question: what is the reason a state has to exist in the first place, many people just take that for granted...some are even proud to be "citizens" of X/Y/Z wearing a badge saying: Proud to be fucked by X/Y/Z...

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:39 | 2997337 SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

More like, work harder slaves...I mean bitchez!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:54 | 2997388 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I think you are confused, Semper.  Allow me to help.  In the world of dogs, a male is a dog and a female is a bitch.  On the other hand, in the world of humans a male works like a dog and a female..., wait a minute.  I need to check my notes.  I'll get back to you....

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:09 | 2997572 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

I'm still waiting.....

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:39 | 2997752 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Collects alimony and child support?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:23 | 2998938 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Whether she earns money or not, the female in the relationship ALWAYS holds the office of Chief Spending Officer.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:50 | 2997877 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Slaves are only bad if individuals own them. If it's government then the rightful owners are like...really cool, kinda like obamommy.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:36 | 2997325 Midas
Midas's picture

As soon as I get back from my farm in Chile, I will talk to my talk advisor!  Thanks for the tip!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:03 | 2997905 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Mercy, he is obtuse, isn't he? It's like playing cards with my brother's retaded kids or something.


Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:36 | 2997327 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Taxes are theft.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:02 | 2997409 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'm wondering is a nice stiff round of high taxation might finally get the majority of J6Ps off the dorito-stuffed sofa and go out into the streets to shout, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it any more!"?

What could appear to be a catastrophic tax agenda could end up being the pivotal event!  I think I might be long of pitchforks.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:32 | 2997479 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Wont happen. J6P is happy as long as the other guy is paying moar taxes than he is.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:26 | 2997721 Ass_Hat
Ass_Hat's picture

Nope!  J6p would have to not be able to afford food or beer.   The he would run out and shout in the streets for the Government to fix this free market calamity.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:39 | 2997336 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Taxes rise and the black market prospers.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:49 | 2997663 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

that's why amazon gets alot of my biz

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 09:48 | 2998412 augustus caesar
augustus caesar's picture

Historically the underground economy grows in direct relation to punitive tax policies.

Why do you think there's been such a hard push for digital money with debit and credit cards the last fifteen years?

They want everything and they want to track everything.

That's why they're inflating our dollar whilst simultaneously not printing any new larger denomination bills.

To add to the transaction-convenience cost of doing business in physical currency.

Why do you think they've kept metal change around for so long?

To add to the subtle transaction-convenience cost of doing business in physical currency.

The idea of digital currency is the death of BLACK MARKETS and beginning of COMPLETE TAXATION with nowhere to hide.

They're going to legalize drugs soon too.


The same reason as they did during our inbred Pharoah's ( oops, I misspelled FDR's ) New Deal.

Shift that Black Market money into government coffers to main line some nice new dope into the Power Junkies veins.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:33 | 2998556 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Not really true.  The only way a black market really prospers is if you make something completely illegal that lots of people want and use routinely (e.g., alcohol, sex, drugs, gambling).  Black market does activity bring to pick up as you increase consumption or direct sales tax on it but there really isn't a lot of legit and serious economic study that has been done in the area since it is tough to accurately measure black market activity.  Seen some work regarding tobacco products and alcohol but that is about it.  

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:39 | 2997338 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

"The government is the only thing we all belong to.""

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:52 | 2997781 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, the Obama screed.

To better put it in perspective, "the government we all belong to" is grammatically incorrect.

It would properly read: "Government is the only thing to which we all belong."

So by their standard, we all have been forced to belong to something we to which we might not wish to belong, is in error in that we all belong to other conventions such as "Humanity" and, is grammatically incorrect...

Meaning that in every way, it is in error.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 03:05 | 2998068 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I would not join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx

So may I be excused from belonging to this government?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 04:36 | 2998118 GernB
GernB's picture

Yes, in other words government is saying: your sheeple are all belonging to me.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:41 | 2997340 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

It's not a lie if they actually believe it.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:41 | 2997341 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Moreover, dividend tax rates are set to rise from 15% to as high as 43.4%. This affects not only US taxpayers, but everyone on the planet who invests in the US stock market.

NOw why the hell is the market still going UP?????  Don't these "investment professinals" know and are tryig to "make us money" by giving us tax safe investing advice??????  The Dow, S&P, and Russell 2K shold ALL be down that percentage, because that is a loss percentage per dollar.  NOBODY's protfolio could withstand that.



Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:44 | 2997345 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

U see everyman thanks to zirp and soon to be nirp your 5% div taxed at 40% still gets you over 2.5% which is just tremendously higher than the bank. Rejoice.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:48 | 2997365 Matt
Matt's picture

Except true inflation will be closer to 15%, so you will actually be losing 12.5% per year. Fantastic!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:41 | 2997512 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It's Still better than the bank!! (yelling with fingers in my ears).

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:41 | 2997761 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

the banks don't need none of your stinking money. They borrow at bennies and lend it to unka and reap the spread.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:54 | 2997392 Augustus
Augustus's picture

A great deal of the ownership of the listed companies is through pension plans, IRA plans, and insurance company investments.  the change in rates will have little effect on them.

We were in the midst of the meltdown you somewhat predict when someone announced that they loved their Congressional neighbor and that there should be a deal.  Boehner wisely is letting Obama do the leading on the resolution proposals.  Whatever spending cuts he proposes will likely be meaningless.  Let Obama come with the plan on the table.

When it is revealed that Obummer will deal with this spending problem as they have with illegal immigration (create more of both) the decline will resume and erase this bounce quickly.  JMHO.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:42 | 2997645 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Dear Leader isn't going to do anything to help fix/resolve the fiscal problem. There is no downside for him refusing to help resolve the problem. Besides, being a real leader would interfere with his international vacations and golf games. If the Republicans capitulate and give Dear Leader the confiscatory taxes he wants, Dear Leader wins and the Republicans loose. If we fall off the Fiscal Cliff, Dear Leader blames the Republicans - again, Dear Leader wins and the Republicans loose.

Dear Leader just won reelection by promising free stuff to his supporters, revenge on his opponents, and by blaming Bush for the ever worsening economy. 

I don't know if anybody has noticed, but it appears that Dear Leader has quietly stolen the title of "Teflon President" from Bill Clinton.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:44 | 2997770 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Actually, he is nothing more than a Chicago slime-bag. It works until it doesn't Ask Blago. Illinois, where our governors make our license plates. He may get caught with his dick in the till yet.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:40 | 2998221 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Teflon President was Ronald Reagan.


"Because no matter what the scandal that hit his administration, nothing stuck to him personally--regardless of what it was, up to and including the whole Iran-Contra affair. Much of it seems to have been attributable to the whole 'grandpa' image he projected.

The phrase was coined by Rep Pat Schoeder: "As a young congresswoman, I got the idea of calling President Reagan the 'Teflon president' while fixing eggs for my kids. He had a Teflon coat like the pan." Hope this helps! Source(s):

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 09:45 | 2998408 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'll see your Benghazi and raise you one Iran-Contra....

Is there anyone to compare with Ollie North in any recent Dem. Administration?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:43 | 2997344 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Shut up and pay your fair share!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:15 | 2998208 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Shut up and suck my cock, biatch.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:46 | 2997353 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

The fiscal cliff is all just a bluff to scare up more bribes for congress.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:46 | 2997355 Matt
Matt's picture

So, if the taxes and rates of taxes have no effect on total tax revenues collected as a portion of GDP, how are the British able to collect twice as much tax as Americans?

What policy allows a government to collect more or less tax as a portion of GDP?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:49 | 2997367 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

They will pay anything in hopes someone will fix their teeth.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:57 | 2997395 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

They're scared to death the gubbermint will take their telly.  Every damn set is registered and fucking taxed.  Sick but true.

Also, the benefits are more evenly spread.  They don't just go to the kleptocrats and the hoochie-mommas.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:46 | 2997772 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Nah, they just go to the whorehopper Pwince UpChuck and his bos that he was banging behind her husband's back. She could give Nancy P. a run for her money as most ugly bos I have ever seen.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:16 | 2997442 adr
adr's picture

VAT, congestion charges, TV tax, $5 a gallon gasoline tax, heavy property taxes, more than your car is worth registration tax, you looked at the Queen wrong tax, you insulted the nose of Prince Charles tax.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:30 | 2997476 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

They've been at this empire thing a bit longer than the US.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:17 | 2997591 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and the dirty criminal banking hobby

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:09 | 2998205 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

As both a US and UK taxpayer let me help you there.

The old Inland Revenue Serrvice(now Customs and Excise)has powers the US

IRS could only dream of.The tax code is relatibely simple in comparison to the US.

Corporate tax write offs are severely limited,perks are taxed at the highest marginal rate.

and then you have the VAT.Plus NIC(SS) and tax rates are higher.


Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:49 | 2997369 miker
miker's picture


Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:01 | 2997407 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Then we'd temporarily run out of prisons.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:32 | 2997481 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

How many hollow-point rounds did the IRS purchase again?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:37 | 2997953 mkhs
mkhs's picture

What is important is how many you can catch and still walk away.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:33 | 2997733 DosZap
DosZap's picture


In order to do that, you have to quit your job, IF YOU HAVE ONE.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:39 | 2997954 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Some 36% of the people are already onboard.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:50 | 2997371 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Damn, that socialism gets expensive. I thought Obama promised free shit for everybody.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:35 | 2997743 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Shit is the only thing you will get for free under Obama.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:53 | 2997385 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Now my advice for those who die,
Declare the pennies on your eyes,
‘Cause I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
And you’re working for no-one but me,

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:55 | 2997393 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

From this point on I'm going to tell nothing but the truth... until I decide to lie.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:20 | 2997449 Drachma
Drachma's picture

I always lie.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:04 | 2997417 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i wish i could take back what i already put in and buy golds and silvers.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:09 | 2997429 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

At least the Europeans are rioting. That's good news, but it won't do anything, because they are UNARMED!

And the Americans are too lulled to sleep with football, baseball, and the latest Dancing with the Snatch.

Let the looting continue until there is nothing left. Then, roll in the tanks.

Everything is going according to plan. Nothing to see here, move along.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:33 | 2997488 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

They only riot for more free lunches.

Until they riot for freedom, they are still a functioning organ of the state.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:13 | 2997435 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

George Steinbreener checked out in the perfect guy !

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:13 | 2997437 adr
adr's picture

I for one could care less about the tax rate on dividends going up. I could also care less about capital gains going up. They should go up.

Perhaps if you can't make money trading electronic representations of certificates of stock, people might have to *gasp* make money by selling actual products. No more EPS con games, no more GAAP fairy tales, no need for mark to unicorns ridden by fairies. No more pump and dump IPO operations.

Corporations would rise and fall based on the market for their products. There would be a huge market for professionals that actually know how to run a business. Of course that would mean about 80% of retail will go out of business along with quite a few banks. Maybe a few more car companies, and a whole lot of pension funds would be bankrupt.

The whole thing is just a mirage anyway. People think they actually have a job, but most of them are just worthless placeholders to give the appearance of a functional corporation. I honestly don't know what half the people I meet during consultations actually do. I watch them sit at a computer and write e-mails, then they sit in meetings for half a day without saying a word. When I ask the owner of the company what that person does, I usually get an answer like, customer service. However, I never see the guy actually talking to customers. As long as the company meets EPS estimates nobody cares. When they don't the useless are let go to help the bottom line.

Business has become a special needs discipline. Complete with the government subsidy to keep it operational.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:43 | 2997517 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't know's bad enough with the income tax, what you do with your money after they already taxed it once is up to you. They should not be taxing it again.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:58 | 2997556 Matt
Matt's picture

Or maybe the other way around; perhaps we shouldn't tax (and disincentivize ) income. Perhaps consumption taxes (ONLY) would be a better way to go.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:21 | 2997601 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the best thing about consumption taxes is they pick up the underground economy (which is now much larger than the dead one above ground) and they encourage saving

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:43 | 2997646 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I can't give you more than one.

Abolish the "progressive income tax system" altogether...flat tax at point of sale captures all sources of income.

From the dime bagger on the street corner to the CEO buying a yacht and the IRS could be cut in half for only concentrating on businesses collecting it instead of looking at 310 million people making it.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:04 | 2997686 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it's why it will never pass - all those special people would actually have to pay 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:40 | 2997956 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

The IRS could be cut in half for only concentrating on businesses collecting it instead of looking at 310 million people making it.

But, but - these are IMPORTANT jobs, and these people are HIGHLY TRAINED / SKILLED, and they are Government Employees too (to bestowed with those "Special Rights", don't you know!).

The Government of the day will HAVE to redeploy these highly useful individuals, certainly into comparable (or preferably better) paying positions as "fair compensation" for their career path disruption. Surely everyone knows that the "Revenue Protection Team" always deserves special treatment!!

(preferably involving the sharper end of a pitchfork: (Whilst the taxpayers HAVE to keep paying, we'll continue to waste just as before. "Business as Usual" in the real corridors of power)

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:35 | 2997742 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Perhaps consumption taxes (ONLY) would be a better way to go.

Bingo!, oh, wait....................

First you must have CONSUMERS, darn.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:38 | 2997750 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Perhaps consumption taxes (ONLY) would be a better way to go.

Bingo!, oh, wait....................

First you must have CONSUMERS, darn.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:16 | 2997441 Drachma
Drachma's picture

And this is happening because of:

A.  Random acts of incompetence by an inept administration.

B.  A well-planned strategy of socioeconomic destruction by a very adept dominant minority.

C.  Aliens

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:18 | 2997446 adr
adr's picture

Random acts of incompetent aliens bent on socioeconomic destruction.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:24 | 2997460 Drachma
Drachma's picture

Interesting theory.


Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:17 | 2997592 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

It is all on-purpose randomness.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 01:43 | 2998017 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Random acts of incompetence by bent administration.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:30 | 2997726 DosZap
DosZap's picture

And this is happening because of:

 A. Random acts of incompetence by an inept administration.

 B. A well-planned strategy of socioeconomic destruction by a very adept dominant minority.

 C. Aliens


All the above........................

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:19 | 2997448 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

More peas, please !!!!!!!!!!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:21 | 2997455 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

So tell us something new.  The only thing you revealed is that you're one of the 1%.  Yes, at least one of my children will be in the same boat and I'm against the increase for their sake, but you shoild go from being a contributor to being one of us down in the comment section where the real wisdom is.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:26 | 2997467 cooperbry
cooperbry's picture

The faster they raise them, the faster they'll realize what they've done.  To the moon Alice !

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:38 | 2997501 hustler etiquette
hustler etiquette's picture

Which other english speaking, or english language tolerant country is the best to move to and start all over again?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:15 | 2997587 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Learn Spanish, change your name and stay where you are! Its all good! You are of the opressed. Apply for your snap card today, before the line gets any longer.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:38 | 2997748 Matt
Matt's picture

Sweden is interesting. 

If that charter city in Honduras ever happens, it looks promising.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:59 | 2997558 Greyzone
Greyzone's picture

Horse manure, Mr. Black. Reagan cut taxes his first year and raised taxes thereafter. Idiots think only about the tax cuts and incorrectly conclude that cuts created more revenue. They did not. Revenue increased as taxes increased.

Also current tax rates are at all time lows, especially among the wealthiest. It's time they paid their fair share and a fair share is not 14% while the average family pays 15%-25%.

Oh, and I encourage all the ultra-wealthy to go run. You think there is a better place to live tax wise? Go! If they will even take you, which I doubt.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:26 | 2997612 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The truely wealthy own our asses. They own our employment, the means of production for everything we buy and our government. Yeah, raise their taxes, that will show them! You can't get even by taxing them. They just add the taxes back into everything we consume and use the tax structure as a means of stiffling any upstart competitors. If you want to see a more uniform wealth distribution, elect people who will get government and big business out of bed with each other. Raising taxes only increases our costs while enabling the government/business mafia to get even bigger and stronger. They say cut taxes to raise revenues and then raise taxes to increase revenues. are you ever going to notice that all they care about is revenues? Not you and not me. Them. And they will use these "fairness" issues to divide and conquer.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 08:02 | 2998246 Monedas
Monedas's picture

High taxes stifles competition .... drug prohibition stifles competition !

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:40 | 2998589 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Ridiculous oversimplication and I assume that all wealthy individuals are 'job creators' too.  What matters is the effective tax rate that people actually pay.  I wouldn't mind seeing a cap on deductions that people can maximize annually and a reduction in some of the tax credits/deductions that people get.  Tax code has become so convulated since '86 that the US now has more tax credits/deductions that it collects in revenue annually.  

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:28 | 2998962 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Can we STOP calling them "tax revenues". Revenues are EARNED. Taxes are CONFISCATED.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:42 | 2997766 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

Reagan lowered rates and tweaked the exemptions.  The end result was my tax bill went up. 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:05 | 2997913 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Asshole, the average family does not pay 15-25% in federal income taxes.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:38 | 2999010 Abaco
Abaco's picture

define "fair share"

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:01 | 2997559 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

More supply side b/s.  Rates will return to 12.4% on 1/1/13 However it was Your champion Ronnie Regan that first raised the rates to that level on the reccomendation of the committee led by Allan Greenspan in 1983. 

As for finance 101, I believe you were  supposed to be taught to make investments based on their merits not on their tax consequences.



Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:39 | 2997638 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And they will continue to raise them until it becomes apparent that there will never be enough. The government will never concede they have enough until they have it all and then...use your imagination.

And as far as investing, since when did high risk gambling become "investing". How can you possibly assess merits in this economy. There is no company in existence within the US realm of influence that is not directly impacted by the madness at hand. Investing today is more like betting on Russian Roulette. If you keep playing, you WILL lose!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:45 | 2999049 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Tax rates affect the merits of any investment. Whatever hurdle rate you choose for investment the number of qualifying investments is diminished with every increase in the tax rate. If your hurdle rate is 10% you need to make a 20% return with a 50% tax rate for the investment to be a go. A zero % tax on capital gains would mean you would only need a 10% return to give the investment a go. 

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:21 | 2997604 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

If taxes were zero and I raised the rates to 1%, I guarantee that it would increase revenues for the government.  Your argument is seriously flawed.  Its a curved relationship.  Its about setting a rate to cover legitimate expenses without harming the economic engine itself.  With the current system, its extremely difficult to manage especially with foreign rates to be considered.  The onyl way to correct this mess is for many people to accept loss.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:45 | 2997868 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

"Its about setting a rate to cover legitimate expenses without harming the economic engine itself. " Who decides what [legitimate expenses] are? You're not going to cut support for my [Navy destroyer, alpaca farm, ghetto museum] are you?

" The only way to correct this mess is for many people to accept loss." Once the dollar collapses (since the politicians won't agree) lots of folks will take MASSIVE losses. Be careful what you wish for.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:49 | 2997963 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

Well thats the problem isnt it.  The people who control the spending are incompetent crooks.  Only when you hit rock bottom will meaningful change occur.  I dont want it to happen.  But how else can the present situation change?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:22 | 2997712 Ass_Hat
Ass_Hat's picture

Phew!!...Thank God I make less than 250K!!!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:47 | 2997870 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Not for long. Just wait for hyperinflation to kick in. Then your inflation adjusted income will be several trillion dollars, you'll be "rich" and taxed accordingly.

The ATM was a tax on "the rich," but never indexed for inflation. Inflation over the years has enabled the ATM to ensnared more and more people - people who are definitely not rich.

Buy bullets. They will appreciate in value tax free! And, they are inherently useful.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:37 | 2997746 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Shit, when I was growing up, the government ran TV ads that said Social Security was actually insurance. I think it says that on my handout that I got with my SS card. Of course, the court threw that under the bus in 1980.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:41 | 2997755 DosZap
DosZap's picture

SPAIN is offering RESIDENCY to anyone who can buy a home for $200k...............or more,Latvia is even MO Beta!!!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:51 | 2997882 goat
goat's picture

Love Latvia!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:51 | 2997880 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The new big business idea of the century: Tax Evasion.

It will be heralded as the only way any company avoided bankruptcy in the new melenia.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 06:16 | 2998176 Peterus
Peterus's picture

Friends of the people in power will not pay these kinds of rates. There will be some exemption somewhere carefully designed to let some people in - and just shave all the other sheeps.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 00:47 | 2997959 geoffr
geoffr's picture

Hauser's Law in its full glory.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 04:44 | 2998120 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Less and less incentive to work with each passing year.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:12 | 2998695 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Tell me about it... I haven't had a W-2 debt-slave job for years and I feel more vindicated every passing year.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 04:44 | 2998122 GernB
GernB's picture

Any deal will be tax increases now for cuts to increasea in budgted future spending. You can bet the tax increases will happen. However, the cuts aren't real, and they'll never happen.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:50 | 2998234 Monedas
Monedas's picture

No government should ever consume more that 10% of GDP .... that was the traditional tithe when the church wielded power .... how dare the secular socialists ask for a penny more ? 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:57 | 2998239 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Your car's computer consumes a tiny fraction of the engine's power output .... that's a good model for the bloated pigs to live by !

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 08:03 | 2998248 davidgdg
davidgdg's picture

Recently our stupid and greedy government increased the transaction tax on house sales for high value properties in the UK  from 4% to 7%. The result was a 53% fall in the sale of high value properties and a fall of  20% in transaction tax receipts.

You have to laugh 


Tue, 11/20/2012 - 08:22 | 2998266 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Top 10 lists are all the rage .... where's a top 10 list of the most people/business friendly countries ?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 08:26 | 2998272 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

We get the government we deserve. 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 09:54 | 2998430 CVfriendship
CVfriendship's picture

Boston Tea Party 1773.... Wall Street Riots 2013....240 years sounds about right?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:26 | 2998740 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

It does sound about right, but never in the history of post-imperial empires (or facist police states for that matter) has the populace been a) so drenched in arms and b) so ingrained with a sense of individual liberty.


Throw in things like Dec 21st, 2012, institutionalized lies and deceptions that are evaporating like puddles on a hot highway, and the internets, and you may just have an exponential, nearly instant awakening the world has never seen.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:28 | 2998538 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Oversimplificiation.  The basic premise is right but even a 2-3% move in GDP is huge on its effect on the budget and we have seen a nostable shift over time in the sources of revenue as we have shifted more of the burden on individual income taxes and payroll taxes and lowered corporate income tax revenues.



Tue, 11/20/2012 - 14:05 | 2999295 BuildItToBreakIt
BuildItToBreakIt's picture

Drive off the cliff already, I'm sick of hearing about it.



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