This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

When Even Goldman Says The Market Is Broken

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Today's market summary from Goldman about sums it up:

Though a convincing explanation might be hard to come by, equities posted a serious rally today. Tech leads as those stocks hardest hit of late also bounce the most. This means AAPL adds over 7% on the day. Here’s a fun fact: from Friday’s low to today’s high AAPL rallied over 12% – or about 58bn in market cap. A rally always feels good but that type of volatility is hard to reconcile with a healthy market.

One question for Goldman: what's a "healthy" "market"?

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:46 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Only volatile markets are healthy.  Steady, predictable markets are sick.  

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Meanwhile VXX down almost 9%

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

I just got back from the farmers market, all is well there.

They gave me a carload of food for some useless little green pieces of toilet paper with numbers on them

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:07 | Link to Comment French Frog
French Frog's picture

"One question for Goldman: what's a "healthy" "market"?"

It's a market that Goldman is on the right side of...

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

Ding Ding Ding

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 05:52 | Link to Comment e-recep
e-recep's picture

useless?? they gave you food in exchange, so that toilet paper is still pretty useful if you ask me. try to educate those farmer with your ZH knowledge and see what they hand you in exchange.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

After Green on UN Blue killing in Afghanistan, where did we go wrong?, now this;

U.S. foreign policy: Iraq, Iran and 100 years of Failure

TAMPA, November 19, 2012 — An Iraqi diplomat has called upon other Arab oil producers to “use oil as a weapon” against the United States. Fox News reports this as if it should come as a surprise.

“The shocking statement from a democratic government in power only after the U.S. and allies ousted murderous dictator Saddam Hussein in a costly and bloody war laid bare the Middle Eastern nation’s true allegiance,” reports Fox.

The detachment from reality exhibited by news organizations like Fox and Americans in general is stunning. Americans actually believe that Iraqis should be grateful that the United States invaded their country, destroyed their infrastructure, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and made homeless refugees of millions more.

They also believe that after deposing a relatively westernized dictator and putting the Shia majority in power, the resulting government would not seek to retaliate against U.S. support for Israel.

This is by no means an isolated incident. It is a recurring theme. Contrary to official myth, U.S. foreign policy has been a failure for the past 100 years, virtually without exception.

 

A small percentage of Americans are vaguely aware that Osama bin Laden did not create Al Qaeda (Arabic for “the base”). It was started in Pakistan by Sheik Abdullah Azzam with CIA support. According to veteran reporter Eric Margolis,

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/reawakening-liberty/2012/nov/18/us-foreign-policy-100-years-failure/

 

 

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:21 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

how about when the U.S. supposed ally, Karzai, blatently snubs his master?  things getting very shaky for the death star:

http://rt.com/usa/news/karzai-afghan-us-detention-083/

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:43 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

WashingtonTimes bought and paid for by the Unification Church vis-a-vis the honorable 'Sun Myung Moon' the high priest of moonies via money`e equates to a POS Rag!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:44 | Link to Comment jackinrichmond
jackinrichmond's picture

funny how it doesn't go up by the same amount when the market tumbles.

the VXX used to be a volitility indicator.. now its a fraud indicator - it's a tell (that the market is being juiced)

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:36 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

obviously a healthy market is one where they can frontrun the muppets with impunity. not sure where they get off calling the current incarnation of the market unhealthy. the squid must die.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Healthy market? They infected it. They killed it. They pried the golden teeth out of it. They buried it. They're coming for the rest of us next.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:51 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Goldman saying the market is broken, what a laugh, they
helped break it.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Mr. Jim "Gold" SInclair, as usual has nailed it yet again.............................that rascal!!!

GEITHNER IS SAYING WE NEED QE TO "INFINTY".

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Correct. The middle class has no right to exist. They must be reduced to slaves to the point where our economic pyramid looks more like a needle balanced in the center of a crepe

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:53 | Link to Comment chubbyjjfong
chubbyjjfong's picture

They didn't use protection, and now a ferocious case of Herpes is the least of our problems.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

I think know what Goldman means: they want a healthy looking market. You know, like the pimp who wants his sick bitchez with the right makeup to cover up that deathly look.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Is Goldman upset they didn't ride the entire 12%?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:53 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I really, really hate to sell more stocks than I already have for years now.  And our bonds (purchased long ago) will be expiring in the next 1 - 3 years.  *Sigh*

Gold!  And stay OUT OF DEBT!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 03:03 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

DCRB

I think you know debt, in HI. turns out to be no problem. The biggest 'giant' on the planet (USG) knows this and has a plan. I am following in their footsteps....'all the debt I can easily service'...my motto. 

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:54 | Link to Comment game theory
game theory's picture

Goldman is a propaganda machine - nothing it produces for external consumption actually contains information.  You might as well turn on your radio to the AM band, find some pleasant sounding static/noise, invite your friends over to listen with you and have some drinks, and then just periodically laugh hysterically. 

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 19:59 | Link to Comment edb5s
edb5s's picture

Slightly off-topic, but what do you guys recommend for those of us locked into 401(k)s?  If I forgo contributions, I am missing out on 4% matching plus 10% (of annual salary) straight additions from my employer (the 10% vested over a period of years, of course).  My plan offers NO withdrawals unless you have exhausted ALL loan options (which doesn't even make sense to me).  I am currently contributing into a stable value fund (obviously returning less than 20 basis points per annum) and don't want to miss out on essentially a 14% pay "increase;" but I'm thinking the amount I could lose, whether through expropriation or the whole fucking market imploding, could be more than what I would be forgoing by opting out.  Any ideas?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:00 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Slightly off-topic, but what do you guys recommend for those of us locked into 401(k)s?

Get the Fuck out.  The 10%+tax penalty you pay now will be lesser than when you lose your entire shit when this things implodes. Buy some Silver/Gold with the remaining money, and sit on the motherfucker.

And of course Goldman would know that the market was broken.  After all, they are the motherfuckers who broke it!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I would definitely AGREE with Shizzmoney.  If you can afford to take the hit (penalty on top of the taxes), then GTFO!  

Argentina some (?four?) years ago seized the pension accounts in dollars and switched them to pesos, then devalued...   :(

I did in late 2008 (IRA) and have slept better ever since.  I also agree re buying a big chunk of physical gold and silver depending on your circumstances.  DO NOT buy gold if there is a real chance you might have to cash it in at a bad time.  GTFO of debt while you are at it as well (if you have debts).

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:12 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Shizzmoney,

Get the Fuck out.  The 10%+tax penalty you pay now will be lesser than when you lose your entire shit when this things implodes. Buy some Silver/Gold with the remaining money, and sit on the motherfucker.

Bro,  agree w/you 100%..............here's the problem.

MOST employers will not ALLOW you to take out any funds(unless loans), UNLESS you have been there many years.

Your only option if this is the case is QUIT,or wait.(or see options below)

5yrs ago I saw the writing on de wall,and had my spouse take out all she could,approx 95%,due to tenure, and she was past 59.5, by just enough.

Anyone else, under that age, or unless they started there right out of school, and were younger could do same, with 10% penalty, and as you know had to re-invest it, into a 401k IRA.OR, include 100% of it in that years income.

They have most by the nads...................sadly.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

If you plan on staying with your current employer for many years, I think it would be foolish to give up that 4% match (14% when you're fully vested) from your boss. Just put it in a cash fund if you're worried about the market. If the S&P goes to 600 in a year or two, you'll still have your cash. You may not have a job though!

 

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

Welllll, here's a less end-of-world idea.  America's not perfect but it's not a banana boat like Argentina.  There is still  Property rights and Rule-of-Law.  If the two other responders are right then we're all totally f****d.

Are you under age 59.5? Regardless, your situation is more complicated than my situation.  It might be worth looking for some professional advice.

Start transferring your 401-k money to a Roth-Ira.  Since you're still working you should be able to transfer some money each year.  But, you'll maintain the employer contributions.  Use Turbo-tax to find the size of a transfer that will be handled by your deductibles.  Even FORBES has described this technique.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarotta/2012/02/20/roth-ira-conversion-...

I've been transferring for the last 3 years and have not heard anything from the IRS. 

Then there's the question of how to invest the money.  I move between Long and Inverse ETFs.  When the market goes down the Inverse ETF rises in value.  These positions tend to run for several months. 

June 1, 2012 was a good time to go long. 

Currently, the market is trending down and the Inverse ETF is rising in value. 

Take a look at Energy(ERX is long, ERY is short) or Financials(FAS long and FAZ short).  There are others, but I'm using these 4 ETFs.

Withdrawals after age 59.5 are not taxable at all. You don't have mandatory withdrawals at age 70.  A  Roth-IRA can pass to your will's beneficiaries.

Keep in mind there is/was a 5 year rule on starting withdrawals, so get started!

I know there is much talking about the government 'possibly' grabbing our retirement money into treasuries. 
I am hoping/betting that our ROTH-IRA accounts are safer than a fully taxable 401-k.

 

Finally, get your remaining 401-k money into something safe.  Prudential has a 'Stable-value' fund that does 2 to 3 % a year. 

The other writers here are ABSOLUTELY correct in telling you to avoid traditional mutual funds or individual stocks!

 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment HalinCA
HalinCA's picture

You people sound like you live in a city.  

Pax vobiscum, 'cause it's hard to eat and drink entries in a bank account statement after the lights go out ...

 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 03:04 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

is your age > 59.5?  Mine is so the decision was easy...gtfo...the tax bite hurt but now I 'own' what I've got.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 07:53 | Link to Comment overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

las vegas "now I 'own' what I've got." no no you don't..you don't own that somebody else does..see corzined and the taxman cometh.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:00 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fuck what Goldman Sachs says!  They are not part of the problem, they are the problem!  They are members of the Federal Reserve Cartel (those bastards have the gall to use the word Federal in their title like they are government too) and they have forced the country to go into debt on a fiat standard and also bailout the bankrupt financial institutions that took us there!

Goldman Sachs should be disbanded, the Fed should be broken up, and any words they say should fall on deaf ears of armed men prepared to gut their lousy asses!!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

disbanded? Hiow about lynched ? Property confiscations and their families exterminated so their bad seed can never be sown again. These people are evil.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:06 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I said to gut them. 

I wanted to emphansize the fact that some, like Webster Tarpley, think it would be wise to Nationalize the FRB when in fact we should lift their charter, strip them of their collateral (the gold that sits as reserves on their balance sheet), and let them take the losses of their toxic holdings.

Then after the Major Banking Houses are forced into bankrupcy yes, we should fucking gut and hang and shoot and set fire to their corpses.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:01 | Link to Comment Anne Ominous
Anne Ominous's picture

To feed, a vampire needs blood to flow.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

Only collapse will unfuck this market...but we already know that.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:15 | Link to Comment kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

Labor vs. Capital / The Fed

Plato: The orator has in fact the ability to speak more persuasively than experts on a technical matter before a crowd of non-experts. Since he produces 'conviction-persuasion' and not 'teaching persuasion,' the orator is required neither to know nor to speak the truth, and hence can easily afford to be indifferent to the truth.

Zeyl: Hence oratory was, and was recognized to be, an extremely powerful instrument for attaining one's ambitions.

Lewis: Stan O'Neil, the former CEO of Merrill Lynch, was fired for the same reason the lower-middle-class family in the suburban wasteland between Los Angeles and San Diego may have lost its surprisingly nice home. Both underestimated the likelihood of an unlikely event: a financial panic. The man on the street, for the first time (NOT), acted on the same foolish principles that have guided the behavior of sophisticated Wall Street traders...When a market is crashing and no one is willing to buy (enter the Fed), it's impossible to sell short. The math was too advanced, the theorists too smart; the debate, for anyone without a degree in mathematics, was bound to end badly. The theory underlying all insurance...falls apart in the face of an actual panic.

Taleb: You guys are just parasytes. You're not bringing anything useful to the market. You are lecturing birds on how to fly. You're watching them fly. And then you're taking credit for it.

Lewis: events that are meant to occur once in a millenium now seem to occur every few years...the financial system was built on an idea that badly underestimates the risk of catastrophies...and so conspires with human (middle class) nature to create them...

Krugman: My story about a basically sound bank (the Fed) beset by a crisis of confidence...

----

The dominoes continue to fall and the explosions just get bigger, inside a PLC controlled digital universe, in which the Nobel is embedded and replicating...good luck with that; keep betting against me. Funny how the physical PLC problem in NY keeps expanding...

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 20:29 | Link to Comment XtraBullish
XtraBullish's picture

I am XtraBullish on France's downgrade - the shorts are getting BBQ'd again! Yee-hah! This ZH site goes berserk during corrections and enraged when she rallies! Too funny! Huge profits from Thursday and especially the AAPL Dec 550's at $8.55 Friday morning! We love the smell of BBQ'd shorts in the mawnin'.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:07 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

+1 - Sometimes I also trade a liberty bell for $15 worth of produce. A little Ag to make an Ag(ri) friend is a good deal.

Sorry, meant as comment to EnslaveTheChild ...

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:08 | Link to Comment binky
binky's picture

Goldman should know. They helped break it. 

 

Poop on the squid!

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:19 | Link to Comment The.Oracle
The.Oracle's picture

My mind was fcckknn blown watching AAPL rally like a son of a bitch today. I got my fingers bitten twice trying to wait for that market to correct from its gravity-defying rally.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Wah!  There were no stops at 12500.  Wah!  We are buried in shorts now because everyone figured what we were trying to do.

Eat a dick Goldman.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 01:16 | Link to Comment fractal trader
fractal trader's picture

What it means is that Goldman did not make any money on this move.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 09:15 | Link to Comment MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

From the desk of the most untruthful group of trash on Wall Street.  As oine writes about it, his partner is playing you for a fool and trying to find a way to take your money.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:23 | Link to Comment AcidRastaHead
AcidRastaHead's picture

When rumour mongering bitch slaps market forces.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!