Guest Post: Army, Navy Suicides At Record High

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

We are now averaging more than one suicide per day for active duty military.  This is a topic I have covered before, most recently in my post Anti-Suicide Nasal Spray Coming to Keep Troops From Killing Themselves.  This is an absolute national disgrace.

From USA Today:

With six weeks left in the year, the Army and Navy are already reporting record numbers of suicides, with the Air Force and Marine Corps close to doing the same, making 2012 the worst year for military suicides since careful tracking began in 2001.

 

The deaths are now occurring at a rate faster than one per day.

 

When Army suicides among those on active duty and demobilized status are combined, the number exceeds the 207 soldiers who have died so far this year in Afghanistan, a difference further skewed because some of those combat zone deaths were also suicides.

We are living in a sick society that is getting sicker and sicker each day.  We must turn this around and the only way to do so is to get the facts to people and shake them out of their apathy.

Full article here.

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Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:23 | 2999950 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I was willing cut you some slack, but you've managed to write several posts without connecting any dots whatsoever.

Time to wake up Jim.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:40 | 3000008 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

He has dis-connected the dots.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:23 | 2999755 akak
akak's picture

JimBowie, every fearmongering chickenhawk warmonger like you should be on the front lines of your beloved imperial US military --- you and every one of your kids both, if you believe that the imperialistic, interventionistic current US foreign policy of endless war is that important. 

Put up or shut up.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:23 | 2999765 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Shit-for-brains, I did five years in the infantry, and there is no requirement for people to be in the military before you can speak in the military's defense, you godam fucking crypto-communist fascist bastard.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:25 | 2999774 akak
akak's picture

You statist fearmongers are SO entertaining!

Now throw some more schoolyard names at me --- it makes you that much more of a man, you know.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:33 | 2999785 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Why should I throw names?

I was simply being descriptive in regard to your pathetic existance as a cowardly piece of shit.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:35 | 2999812 akak
akak's picture

Your spelling is on par with your intellectual development.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:59 | 2999856 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you didn't use enough cuss words and don't you remember, like war, the more weapons you use, the more "right" you are. Your position reminds me a little bit of ex-prosecutors who become defense attorneys and still refuse to believe that authority can very well: lie, be a hypocrite and commit crimes.  

The Suicidal Recruiter

I had a client about five years ago who was a former soldier and now a recruiter for our current escapades. As things wore on, parents and family would come back to him after their son was killed. As this escalated and other information leaked out, he became suicidal and tried to kill himself. Unfortunately, he tried to burn himself and they charged him with attempted arson. After a long battle and some decent psychological input, I got the prosecutor to reduce to a misdemeanor but they wanted substantial jail. I was lucky enough to get an intelligent judge who was also a veteran (now retired). I had already given a lot of thought to the effect on the solider and his family but not enough to people in his position. Like my father who was in just after Korea, a hell of a lot has changed - both how we think of the world and how it thinks of us.        

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:25 | 2999767 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

JimBowie, that is an entirely different matter from volunteering to go and fight the banks' and the profiteers wars for gain and conquest, as you very well know.  

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:32 | 2999801 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Maybe, maybe not, since a lot of 'bankers wars' are as much to head off larger conflicts that might come if things get out of hand.

In such cases itis difficult to argue how many lives were saved in the long run.

I dont think Afghanistan was a bankers war, nor Iraq, though I favored the former and not the latter.

But we surely have had bankers wars before where we invaded countries to protect the interests of Wall Street, that is most certainly true.

And that is fucked up.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:42 | 2999844 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

And now who profits from the poppy harvest?  Who profits from the oil?  

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:08 | 2999913 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Who, pray tell, received the bulk of the $3 trillion+ that the US has spent in Afghanistan and Iraq and the rest of the MENA over the last 11 years? Who funded it?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:26 | 2999773 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

we already live under the bankers rule

 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:37 | 2999822 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Agreed.

But the point is we can change that, if we just organize and represent our own interests in the system instead of bitching and whining about it with no follow up.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:53 | 3000049 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

We need a Navy, air defense, nukes (deterrent and punative offense) and the unorganized militia.  Anything else is unneeded and bullshit war expenses. 

We do not NEED to be in fucking Afghanistan or the Middle East.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:31 | 2999741 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

And start educating your kids early, teach them about how they try to manipulate the young.  If you don't, they are helpless against the goals of the government education system.  And haven't you seen those ads when you have gone to the movies?  They glorify the role of the military and show them doing the occasional good deed they use as a sop for their conscience.  There are TV shows and TV news about our "heros."  We didn't raise our kids for cannon fodder. They are too precious to throw away for reasons most don't even understand and are to the benefit of the few and to the detriment of the many.  Start thinking about what you are going to do when they start rounding them up.  And if you think you are safe because you are past the age where you have to worry about such things, or are married and have children, or some minor disability that will keep you out in case of a draft, think again.  My father was drafted in the Korean War though he was married with a pregnant wife.  He was in boot camp with a kid who had a club foot. When I was a teenager our next door neighbor got called up during the Vietnam War.  He was in his mid 30s, married, with 5 children and a 6th on the way.  He had to appeal to our senator to get out of it.  

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:24 | 2999952 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

I did the most subversive act of all:  Raised two kids to think for themselve, and question everything.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:31 | 2999575 SMG
SMG's picture

Soldiers - don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you - who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you as cattle, as cannon fodder.

Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate - only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers - don't fight for slavery, fight for liberty.

In the seventeenth chapter of Saint Luke it is written " the kingdom of God is within man " - not one man, nor a group of men - but in all men - in you, the people.

-Charlie Chaplin

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:56 | 2999657 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

And thus the Western democracies were TOTALLY unprepared for the Nazi War Machine.

Fuck you Charlie Chaplin and all those who truck in your delusions; Chaplin should have stuck to making movies and not pretending to know a damned thing about military preparedness.

The strong survive while the weak die off.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:04 | 2999674 SMG
SMG's picture

There are no democracies/republics left.  All we have are banker Oligarchies, soon to be one big banker Oligarchy, that is what those with any love still in their hearts need to turn against.  Liberty is Love, and that is definetly worth being strong and fighting for.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:05 | 2999689 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

That is bullshit. We still have a democratic Republic here in the US and we are entirely capable of throwing the criminals out and cleaning the damned government up.

It is a duty prior generations did from time to time, but this generation is so far too weak, corrupt itself and distracted.

That is not the fault of the Republic, but of the people, who most often get the kind of government that they deserve.

And it doesnt matter how corrupt the government is anyway when we are talking about keeping the Huns from burning our homes to the ground, doofus.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2999719 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

What business is it of ours if the Europeans want to continue butchering one another as they have for centuries? Why didn't we go into the African countries when they were slaughtering millions? Oh-we did the one time-and got our asses kicked-kind of like any "war" we have fought since WWII.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:14 | 2999723 Transformer
Transformer's picture

"That is bullshit. We still have a democratic Republic here in the US and we are entirely capable of throwing the criminals out and cleaning the damned government up."

 

The elective process is fixed.  The system doesn't work.  Other wise R Paul would have been the Republican candidate as he started of winning the first 2 out of 3 primaries.  Bankers run the country.   You are a fool.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:15 | 2999725 SMG
SMG's picture

We still have a democratic Republic here in the US and we are entirely capable of throwing the criminals out and cleaning the damned government up.

I think the last few "elections" have proven that not true so far.

And it doesnt matter how corrupt the government is anyway when we are talking about keeping the Huns from burning our homes to the ground, doofus.

Fine,  then let's bring all the troops home and have them guard our homes and borders.  Somehow I think the suicide rate would be much lower in that case.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:38 | 2999825 Jreb
Jreb's picture

What our friend fails to realize is that most that dwell here on ZH are not anti military or anti war or even anti government. Many are primarily anti imperialists. We need to return to the pricniples of free markets, individual libnerty and non interventionist foreign policy. If we could do this the rest of the world would be a lot less concerned about us and far less likely to want to blow buildings and people up in the name of their God or deceased loved ones.

The only just war is the one fought in self defense of one's property and life. If you have to get on a boat to go somewhere to kill someone and they can't return the favor then you are probably engaged in a war that you shouldn't be.

We have transformed ourselves in the west from a beacon of freedom and hope for the rest of the world to an imperialist juggernaught intent on bringing "democracy" through brute force to every backwater nation and people on the planet. Such a policy has crippled us economically and now socially. As ZH'ers often say "This will not end well".

Bring our troops home, clean up up our political and finacial system and start over.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:41 | 2999841 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

I agree mostly, but some wars are justified though not in strict terms 'self defense'.

A retributive strike after being sneak attacked is justified, as is fighting a war to prevent a much larger one, but these should be rare.

Good response.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:31 | 2999962 GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

People like you are exactly why I avoid the DC area.

 

I bet you have a DOD job and have never made a dollar that didn't come from the government.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 19:02 | 3000064 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

How can it be known that a war is fought to prevent a much larger war?  Is it dowsed or do they skry the future in a crystal ball?  Perhaps it is seen in the Terot cards or read in the guts of chickens?  Did an angel of God appear unto them, or maybe God spoke unto them directly? Really, what methodology is used to discern the future in this fashion? Such justifications are spoon fed to the masses as many are not equipt with the necessary thought processes to spy out the logical error. Have you no discernment?  

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:21 | 2999946 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Democracy by force?  Ha!  This is a good old fashioned resource snatch, no matter how they try to dress it up.   Bringing them the benefits of modern central banking and debt enslavement is probably just a happy consequence.   

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:44 | 2999847 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

The last election proved that it will be harder than some thought, but first we must break the duopoly the two main parties have right now and offer America a real choice.

The second thing would be to have better suppervision and ID checking at the ballot box.

But I dont think anything will happen until the next MAJOR depression hits, which should be within the next few years.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 18:09 | 3000097 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

few years?  Try months.   

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 19:18 | 3000293 11b40
11b40's picture

JimBowie.....As a military brat, whose old man was a vet of WW2, Korea, and VN, and who grew up during the 50's & 60's on military bases with 3 tours in Europe, I have been watching this conversation with interest.  I, too, am a proud veteran and did my time in VN with the 101st ABN (1/506th), so feel free to call me a coward, moron, or whatever.  You are simply showing us all your shortcomings.

At first, I thought you were just a neo-con warmonger, but now your political agenda has exposed you as a Fox News Kool-aid chugger.  This bit about the ballot box is pure asinine distraction. We have virtually zero problems with the people who cast their votes. 

What we do have is a huge problem with politicians who rig the elections in advance with gerrymandered districts that give them lifetime tenure. 

What we do have is a huge problem with electronic voting machines that can be programmed to count in anyway the programer wants them to. 

What we do have is a huge problem with elected officials who try to keep people from voting by hook or crook.

"Jreb" did a good job in his post above.  Let me suggest that you read it again....and cut down on the profane language.  It makes you no friends here, and undercuts whatever worthy points you might actually make.

Thanks you for your service.  Welcome home.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 20:59 | 3000570 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Great post 11b40. Well thought out and to the point. I was reading this exchange myself and wondering what kind of guy we had on our hands here. Sounded like the same old Neocon BS. Maybe I was in the military too long ago, but I never remember all this insane warmongering BS. It was simply do your duty and get on with it. I was not impressed by the shrill tone of our infantry veteran. Now after reading your post, I too believe this is a FOX news junkie who is all hyped up the echo chamber of FOX.

Since I try to respect my fellow veterans, I will not call him all kinds of foul names, as if this proves anything. But being drunk on FOX cool aid surely blows a person's mind as his posts prove.

Fuck, I was too old for Iraq, but my son in law fought there in a security unit for convoys. i.e. He and his men cleared the bombs and fought the Sunni fighters when they ambushed convoys. His vehicle was blown up once and hit by an RPG once. He came out okay except for the brain injury from the blasts and the PTSD. He is now discharged on disability. Ask him what fighting in Iraq was all about. He can NOT answer, he has no idea what so many fought and died for. It should be a lesson to all who contemplate service. You may be called upon to fight, kill and die for nothing of particular importance other than some politician's desire to be a "War President". Even Bush is now in hiding over what he did.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:35 | 2999816 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

>>>we are entirely capable of throwing the criminals out and cleaning the damned government up.

Lead the way Jim BlowMie

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:39 | 2999835 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

I wouldnt get in front of you for a million bucks.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:48 | 2999858 Dr.Awkward
Dr.Awkward's picture

Who's the coward now?

Either you're a really big troll or a really big idiot.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:27 | 2999781 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"And thus the Western democracies were TOTALLY unprepared for the Nazi War Machine." -- JimBowie1958

Learn some fucking real history (the stuff outside primary schooling).  You are living proof that schooling works.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 17:52 | 3000048 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Seems like we won that one along with a lot of Rooskies.  Quick learners I guess.  But in those days Detroit was humming.  Today not so much.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:19 | 2999744 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

How can you exist as an isolationist in a world containing tens of thousands of ICBMs pointed this way???

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:34 | 2999810 SMG
SMG's picture

Because thousands of our ICBMs are pointed right back the other way.  So unless the other side has a suicide wish, you need not worry.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:37 | 2999824 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

now that's just plain

M.A.D.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:42 | 2999843 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Suicide bombers predate Drones.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 15:47 | 2999581 CPL
CPL's picture

Seconded.

 

Service folks and endless tours.  Poor bastards.  Couldn't begin to imagine.  One tour on the ground is enough for any person. 

 

If any of them are out here at ZH and trying to figure which way is up, I suggest Zen and the art of Motorcycle maintanance and go get a vision quest under your belt. Use any means to preserve yourself.  Use your training.  Use your family.  Use your community.  You aren't the first ones through a tour and you aren't going to be the last.  There are LOTS of old soldiers, come talk to us first.

 

The book is in any good used bookstore and public library.  lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_quest

For a legion hall.  Urial pucks, quarts of beer and guys that have fought in WW2.

legion.ca

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:06 | 2999694 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

This is because a sepecific clique of neocon bastards have taken over our DoD and State Dept.

Obama was supposed to fix that.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 22:21 | 3000827 CPL
CPL's picture

Let me clarify something about how it works:

Military takes orders, orders are followed. If in doubt, start at the beginning of this sentence again.  Repeat as necessary over opted contract.

 

Who is in the military?   Anyone that wants to join.

How do you stay in the military?  See beginning of this post.

What if you don't like the order?  See the sentence above.

What if you do the order and think about what you did?  See the sentence above.

Who gave the order?  Who cares, above your pay grade, see the sentence above.

 

Trickle up logic.

 

 

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:25 | 2999771 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

+1000 CPL

One of the greatest books ever.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 19:32 | 3000330 11b40
11b40's picture

Amen, CPL.  No wonder the suicide rates are going through the roof.  Until you have lived it, you really cannot imagine the internal anger and rage of waking up wondering if you would see another sunrise...day after day.  Counting down those days to the end of the tour, with the anxiety building as you got shorter and shorter.  One tour was bad enough.  Endless tours that have now stretched out over 10 years would be absolutely maddening.

During my war, most of the grunts were draftees, and eventually, the contempt for the situation took care of itself.  We HAD to get out of VN.  The lack of discipline was about to get out of control, but instead of suicide, our rage and depression went outward.  The officer corp was no longer safe as fraggings became evermore commonplace.  It did not take very long after that conflict for the draft to be replaced by the new mercenary army.  Now, even that is not enough, as so much of our dirty work is being contracted out to "specialists".  If you think this is a good thing, you are wrong.

As the lead article said, this is a sick society we have made for ourselves.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 22:08 | 3000767 CPL
CPL's picture

Even those in a contracted situation to the esprit de corp still mentally snap like dry tinder without family and community behind them and I understand exactly why they contract out.  Money. 

The salary hasn't changed for 40 years but the price of everything else has.  Dirt bags in Gucci suits that wipe their asses with silk come and offer x6 the salary with similar benefits minus the pension.  To make that happen all that needs to happen is marriage then kids.  Most sign up once their contract is over to escape soul crushing debt.

If there is one thing that is over looked in all these stats is COLA adjustements to basic salaries.  The US forces are some of the deepest in debt on the planet.   I don't think I've been to a base in the last ten years where it's not surrounded by parasites like pay day loans, gold scalpers and credit card hockers.

The stress of combat is one thing, many that come to the Legions here are flat assed broke and digging deeper by the day.  That's what's killing them.  A young man that signs up hoping to provide for themselves is one thing.  One that gets married and expects to live a middle class lifestyle with kids/mortgage/cars.  That adds on to their respective shit piles. 

Sadly most of the options available at a Canadian Legion are for glueing the mind and soul back together, regardless of tour.  We have old soldiers from both sides of the fight of all wars that have similar opinions on what war is good for.  This new thing though.  The financial calamity management part for the organisation is non-existent. 

 

It is at a point that needs to be mentioned as a side to the general sense of stress.  Most NATO forces will fall apart the first pay cycle that fails and bounces.  Base economies would collapse the same day along with the localized boons that come with them.  These are economic situations that would, can and have in the past collapsed nations.  Russia is a great example.  Took a single paycheck missed and suddenly 4.5 million people spending 27% of a nations GDP turned the USSR into Russia and twenty renewed statehoods.

It's just starting to happen in the UK.  They are coming out with British placement in Canuck bases, I believe there is a similar arrangement in India from articles a few months back in Bloomberg.

 

Anycase, poor bastards.  They have the shakes from re-entering, their shields are up and up to their eyeballs in debt.  Shitty place to be.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:27 | 3002407 11b40
11b40's picture

Thanks for sharing these sober perspectives based on real experiences.

What we have done, and continue to do, to the military is criminal.  It has never been an easy life, especially when families are involved.  Now, it is far worse.

I am not an economist, and have seen the range of opinions between austerity on the one hand, and pedal-to-the-metal Kenseyian deficit blow-out on the other, offered up as solutions to waht ails us.  I don't know the answer, but I do know that we need jobs, we need infrastructure, we need investment in America, and we will need even more jobs as we wind down these wars (if we ever actually do).

Mostly, we need leadership that will put America ahead of party politics........but I am not optimistic.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:09 | 2999702 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

But spelling and grammar wasn't a lie.  It's "you're".

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