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The Myth Is Over: Europe Fails To Agree On Greece

Tyler Durden's picture


Given our earlier comments, it is hardly surprising but the Eurogroup meeting just ended and there is no agreement; headlines via Bloomberg:


EURUSD is tumbling (as are S&P 500 futures in their oh-so-correlated manner)

Of course, Juncker has his own spin:



EURUSD false-started on news that they HAD an agreement - then plunged as reality hit


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Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:46 | 3001048 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

There's always tomorrow.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:01 | 3001076 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:06 | 3001098 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing made a gold purchase recently.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:08 | 3001101 flacon
flacon's picture

Europeans know how to talk, talk, talk ad nauseum until the crows come home to roost on their heads. 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:39 | 3001170 This just in
This just in's picture

Better than the cows coming home to roost on their heads.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:36 | 3001253 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

King dollar!


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:07 | 3001269 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I think this is a Myth;

I never see 1080p video of "The Base Members" they always speak of on the news. Everyone has a cell phone video camera these days. I think "The Base(Al Qaeda)" doesn't really exist except in peoples imaginations. I see more videos of flying saucers than I do of people from "The Base".

This is reality;

The Ron Paul Crew & Co really fucked up our owners, the new world order Illuminati plans, really really bad. I just want to say, Good Job to everyone who helped.

This is the group of real American Men and Women the GOP should be courting for a win in the next Presidential election;

Without any help from the mainstream media to get people off their ass to show up this happened, and this is why I new Mitt Romney and the GOP were going to lose;

Ron Paul Crowds at Rallies


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:41 | 3001437 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The GOP will never win another election unless they learn how to stuff the ballot box like Dems do.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 08:02 | 3001466 j0nx
j0nx's picture

That and stop putting up RINOs and then thinking they lost because they were TOO conservative when in fact it was because they aren't conservative ENOUGH.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 08:52 | 3001547 kralizec
kralizec's picture

FAIL, bitchez!

It's the new winning!  Works in Europe, right?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 09:37 | 3001615 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

You have to differentiate between fiscally and socially conservative, I don't think they can win an election with the latter anymore (and they shouldn't).

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 11:13 | 3001902 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Actually, that differentiation is exactly how we've managed to evolve into not even discussing the fiscal side of the platforms.  We end up talking about legitimate rapes and abortion instead of anything material for politicians.  Conservativism and liberalism necessarily entail discussion of both fiscal and social issues.  If we did, we'd see that on the fiscal side, there is no difference between the parties.  Oops.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 14:31 | 3002680 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Huh? It's exactly the opposite, because the GOP talks mostly about the social issues when they talk conservatism, the democrats can attack and beat them on those issues because a majority of Americans are becoming more 'progressive' in that respect.

But the bigger problem is that republicans are nog longer conservative in terms of fiscal policy, they like to spend just as much as the democrats. The only real difference is that they don't like taxes, while the democrats do like taxes, that is if 'the rich' pays most of them.

Libertarians understand that the best approach is fighting for liberty, which means small government, which means socially free and fiscally conservative. Hope this helps you to understand the situation.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:54 | 3003843 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The entire point of my post was that the actual talking points of the parties are immaterial...  I think you're confused if you're trying to give some type of viable strategy to the way the "GOP talks".  It is no more strategy than hulk hogan doing a body slam on his unwitting opponent as the crowd cheers.

The issue is that there is no such thing as a conservative party.  The definition of conservative has been co-opted by the MSM to only entail social issues...  again, if the full spectrum would be discussed (both social and fiscal issues), then there would be no practical difference between the parties.

Libertarians are conservatives (i.e., both fiscally and socially)...  "Socially free" and a political platform advocating for any government probably shouldn't be in the same sentence...  but it's a nice sales pitch anyway...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 08:22 | 3001498 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

the gop is doing it's job, acting like opposition, while helping guide us to socialism/crime land. some here state if the gop only ran conservatives not Rino's..well this is your reason why Mccain and Mitt were selected to lose.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:37 | 3001434 youngman
youngman's picture

all of their pretty statues have pidgeons...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:28 | 3001149 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I'll do it. 

How about I streak the inauguration...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:31 | 3001248 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Good man.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:24 | 3001423 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

how about Bubble Ben, the global mega-gambler, comes across the Pond and backs another bunch of total losers with all his USD chips ..his Mad Contrarian Hedge Fund has backed every loser in America, why not Europe too?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:00 | 3001078 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Wake me when the worldwide $700 trillion derivatives market blows up combined with the complete and total collapse of the bond markets and dollar collapse.

By the way, Congratulations Greece.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:24 | 3001291 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

Only if you promise to go to sleep until then...and stop the threadjacking with political commentary.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:26 | 3001315 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I know I can thread jack with just a few sentences, or even one sentence, from my keyboard. I'm that powerful. Stop reminding me.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:32 | 3001294 HaroldWang
HaroldWang's picture

Yep. Oh, and BTW, everything is rebounding cuz they'll come to a decision...Monday. Just like three years ago, two years ago, last year, etc. On and on. Oh well, rally on and Happy Thanksgiving!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:03 | 3001088 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Monday. Monday is much worse over a long weekend. All dat doubt.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:31 | 3001154 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

If I get to be picky I'll take a down Friday to sober people for the weekend.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:59 | 3001208 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

When things get serious.....LIE!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:07 | 3001282 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 04:39 | 3001343 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture


Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:46 | 3001050 vinayjha
vinayjha's picture

this liar will meet again, have dinner and will tell dec 5th we'll decide Greece payment.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:55 | 3001069 Orly
Orly's picture

December 5th is the day the Regional Bank of Australia will announce a 25 basis point interest rate cut.

That timing would be quite interesting.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:31 | 3001156 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Thats my birthday.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:42 | 3001176 This just in
This just in's picture

Happy Birthday!


Your gift is a fucked up world where your assests vaporize.


It's the thught that counts.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:46 | 3001051 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture


I was promised rainbows and unicorns from the central bankers in perpuitity.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:02 | 3001085 This just in
This just in's picture

Please allow 8 to 12 weeks for your unicorns to arrive.  Horns sold separately.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:16 | 3001130 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Package for lizzy. A case of eunuch horns. Please sign here.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:32 | 3001157 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

They are coming up short on Rainbows...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:47 | 3001191 This just in
This just in's picture

Don't worry.  They have a plan to meet rainbow demand by 2027.  It will just require some new green investments in the future.  Forward!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:53 | 3001202 knukles
knukles's picture

Don't forget the Skittle Shits

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:47 | 3001053 Gloeschi
Gloeschi's picture

Juncker lies, so it MUST be serious

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:56 | 3001309 Tenshin Headache
Tenshin Headache's picture

Juncker always lies. That serious stuff was just a smoke screen.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:48 | 3001056 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Fuck you, Bernanke!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:29 | 3001150 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

TD, why did you let the Bernank have a ZH account?


Holy shit, MDB is the Bernank, isn't he?


And all this time we thought it was satire...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:50 | 3001195 This just in
This just in's picture

I am the Ber-Nank.  Cu-Cu-Ca CHoo.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:49 | 3001057 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Shocking.... whats next?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:13 | 3001120 HD
HD's picture

Greece will become the new home of the Twinkie - production of Ding Dongs and Ho Ho's will quadruple Greek GPD.

Euro crisis over.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:54 | 3001203 This just in
This just in's picture

Rise of the yeast offensive!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:58 | 3001207 HD
HD's picture

Must resist...    So many inappropriate jokes....

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 04:55 | 3001348 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

"Resistance is Futile; Candida inevitable"

"Yeast we forget",

and others of a similar ilk . . . .

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:51 | 3001060 Orly
Orly's picture

There are no major political disagreements.

This is about money.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:30 | 3001428 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Spot on. 

2 looooong years on these Euro village idiots still haven't worked out if your pockets are empty it doesn't matter how you re-arrange the alphabet to name your funding vehicle, you're still broke and not going anywhere

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:42 | 3001439 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

They could all agree that Greece won't be able to pay their debts until 20-infinity.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:53 | 3001063 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture



what is right with it is what is wrong with it.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:07 | 3001103 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

King GOLD, mon amis Spitzer!  You know better!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:35 | 3001317 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

still king dollar and princess euro. nevertheless gold in the long run, bitchez

the euro might be the better construct but a good car can still be driven over the cliff by a determined bunch of idiots

as usual, TruthInSunshine hits the nail on the head, here 3001214

and btw Junker is still the only one that ever admitted lying, folks - I find it really funny how much flak he gets for that...

oh, before I forget: free Corzine

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:51 | 3001400 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

Corr: mon ami (singular form), mes amis (plural form)

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:54 | 3001068 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

ES down 4 Handles!!!!

This could be the big one!!!

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:56 | 3001072 Orly
Orly's picture

Don't be hasty.  The Nikkei is still rising on vapours...

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:59 | 3001075 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Now down 4.7.....

Almost a full 1/6th of the massive mystery rally 48 hours ago.

Oh sweet baby's going to crash for sure this time!!!!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:02 | 3001082 Orly
Orly's picture

Could be.  Japan turned neg.  Interesting to make the announcement during their lunch period?

Only Singapore seems to be digging it.  Wonder why...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:12 | 3001118 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Yea...could be. Way to really hang out there on a limb.

Let me guess, there's a chance for precipitation tomorrow, also.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:07 | 3001214 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Don't repeat this, but the man in the white hat told me that the cabal has no choice but to let the USD rise, even though they don't want to,  because it's the last and best remaining opportunity to avert a global depression, bitchez.

This is consistent with the Japanese/Nikkei experience beginning in 1989, where the yen appreciated massively against all other developed nation currencies, while the Nikkei sprung a serious, long term leak.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:13 | 3001119 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Yea...could be. Way to really hang out there on a limb.

Let me guess, there's a chance for precipitation tomorrow, also.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:55 | 3001204 knukles
knukles's picture

My wife always talks during her period

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:43 | 3001263 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Nikkei has been soaring for days because Abe promises to vaporize the yen. The Shanghai has been quietly dropping down to lows it hasn't seen since 2009. I guess the Chinese like their new government the way the US likes it's old one.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:03 | 3001086 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Boilermaker your commitment to sarcasiming this insanity to death keeps me going.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:10 | 3001109 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

LOL.., you know they will have this bullshit positive by the time we take s morning dump. Why? Well... Why not, at this point?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:22 | 3001139 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

You had me smiling, man. Thanks.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:23 | 3001142 Orly
Orly's picture

Don't forget that the DAX shot the moon over the past two trading sessions.  If they just dropped back to where they were two days ago, that would put the DAX at about 6990, which would also cover the gap in their open on that day.  If anyone knows about these dealings in Greece with the inside skinny, it is the Germans.

The Europeans are notorious for doing this, especially the British in 4X.  They will move the pair to whichever way it's not going to go as hard as they can and then get on board and ride it out.  Looks to be the same deal here.  Yen Cross asked about it as well. The old Euro pump-and-dump, at your service.

If my math is right and the DAX does cover that opening gap, that's a 2.4% drop from here that could be construed as significant in the FTSE and here across the pond.  The Euro is still dropping like a stone and looks to be doing that for the next six hours or so, so sarcise all you want but this displacement is real enough, believe.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:39 | 3001169 chump666
chump666's picture

Very good point.  Remember when the DAX would gap down about 1% then capitulate to 3%?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:11 | 3001284 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

They have a printing press... everywhere.  Don't fight it, you'll get brain bubbles, and lose all of your money.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:02 | 3001081 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

We've turned Japanese. Rome wasn't built (nor destroyed) in a day. And the Nikkei took 20 year to slope-a-dope down from 40k to 8k.

When confidence is lost, which is now a firm and irreversible stage that we have entered, GTF out of the line of fire and batten down the hatches.

All The Bernank's printers & all of Draghi's phlegm can't put the structual economy back together again.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:05 | 3001096 euphoria
euphoria's picture

Thats a nursery rhyme worth an upvote. Beats the shit out of 3 men in a tub.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:06 | 3001099 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You're getting quite poetic, Truthy. When the bubblegum bubble gets into your hair

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:11 | 3001114 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Seeing The Bernank's trembling upper lip today inspired me to wax poetically upon his impotence this evening.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:13 | 3001121 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Something quite allegorical about  quivering impotency and lips...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:55 | 3001196 Tinky
Tinky's picture

The man just exudes confidence. It's like watching Muhammad Ali in his prime.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:14 | 3001124 kito
kito's picture

@truth---i assume when you say weve turned japanese, you mean the japan that has a few years left at best, and not the japan that delayed the inevitable for 2 decades?????........'cause 20 years puts the u.s. debt burden at something like, oh 50+ trillion.....and with granthams rosy prediction of sub 1 percent gdp growth..........not seeing it happen.........just not seeing 20 years more of this insanity...........

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:33 | 3001159 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Agreed kito. There is a difference between a reserve currency and a carry trade currency. Not to mention we have a rising power that wants to challenge the reserve currency dominance. This won't be a twenty year slide, it will continue to accelerate until we all go the way of the Twinkie.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:42 | 3001174 kito
kito's picture

this latest push into asia will likely be the last for the american empire.............

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:50 | 3001192 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Noone knows the timeline, unless they're pretending to be a false prophet, IMO.

I just know a good and firmly entrenched trend when I see one.

I see lots of shit being liquidated to pay for essentials by baby boomers, retirees and many others given the whacked out, batshit crazy NIRP/ZIRP'd Bernank'd-broken markets and economy we're going to live through for some time.

Color comin' in, as they say in Vegas, boys.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:37 | 3001435 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

ok fair enough , lets say ten more years then...

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 23:59 | 3001077 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Bernanke wants to buy foreign bonds, he should start buying Greek bonds... everything would be solved...

/or so says Juncker.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:00 | 3001079 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'm sure we will get some bullshit song and dance the hopium market can grab on to and rally before the weekend.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:06 | 3001097 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I give you black Friday Dr. Engali.


Nothing spells hopium like a bunch of maniacs trampling on other maniacs to buy a blender.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:19 | 3001135 kito
kito's picture

im so torn by black friday.........on one hand i abhor the concept of people brushing off thanksgiving only to race to the stores at midnight...........just abominable.......such a sad country we have become...yet on the other hand.......oh those deals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:22 | 3001140 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Kito TIS is right. Did you watch the Bernak today? He was freaking out. He finished his speech, pissed himself and then drank 3 gallons of water. I could amost picture the S&P giving up 400 pts as he was speaking.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:26 | 3001146 Orly
Orly's picture

There was some reporter, too, who asked him a question and Dr. Bernanke ripped the mike out of his hand and stormed off.

I wonder what that was about...

The guy says video sometime tomorrow (20 Nov...).

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:37 | 3001162 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Someone on here posted the vid earlier today. It was a kid named Luke. In Bernanke's defence I think he was burnt out and thought it was his male escort and then found out it was not.....

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:42 | 3001178 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Man I need a link, Bernanke humor. Seriously though, does anyone have a link or do I have to search?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:47 | 3001188 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I checked, Orly is right. someone mentioned the encounter, but said link tomorrow.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:14 | 3001222 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It was -


the video with Ben Bernanke will be out tomorrow on got another one coming with Paul Volcker


Rumor has it that The Bernank tore off his shirt, flexed up on Luke & screamed "you fucked with the wrong fractional reserve alchemist, bitch! I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull!"

Again, it's unconfirmed, though.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:47 | 3001267 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yeah but after all that Bernanke tried to kiss him.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:23 | 3001230 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Here is the C-SPAN link [ Fonz,Orly,] ...  Ben Bernanke Addresses Economic Club of New York | C-SPAN

  Click video playlist to right for full speech. aprox; 55 minutes.  LMAO "T/I/S"  Good post ;-)

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 04:53 | 3001347 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Luke Rhudowsky on bullhorn at NBC headquarters - (this guy is known by many and records OWS events). 

This young man has potential.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:33 | 3001147 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

He always looks like he is ready to piss himself. The market has that priced in :)

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:50 | 3001194 chump666
chump666's picture


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:01 | 3001083 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Thought the banksters imploded that country, put everything up pennies on the dolla and got the Nazis rolling again. Time to move onto Spain already. Head em up move em out...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:08 | 3001102 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yup. There's plenty of work to be done in Spain. Nazis always there just under the surface. Generalissimo

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:05 | 3001087 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Euro bankers whispering in Greece's ear: "We're your only friend- just give us what we want."

Wake up and tell them to get stuffed.  You have more friends (investors) than you know.  Just not in your current state.  You can't make new friends until you get rid of the ones who are bleeding you dry right now. 

Cradle of Democracy living under somebody else's rules BY CHOICE.  How embarassing.

Yes, breaking free with hurt.  Yes, you will suffer a decline in your standard of living.  But your destiny will be in your own hands again.  You don't need to lift anything heavier than your own middle finger.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:37 | 3001164 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

This cradle of democracy mantra is always funny. Yeah, it can be called that. But the Greek style direct democracy was a horrible, horrible system. Tyrant after tyrant after tyrant rose to power and was overthrown. A vicious cycle of bullshit when the d00dz of tha h00d gathered to the square to decide whether they should spend money on more buildings or slaves.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:06 | 3001093 chump666
chump666's picture

USD bids were in before this, save haven trades prior to this was HKD and DXY. Oil bid,  futures done. 


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:10 | 3001106 Orly
Orly's picture

Where do you see EURUSD landing, Chump?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:15 | 3001127 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Parity, bitchez. I said within a year as of March, so time is running short! C'mon, Draghi! Fire up those plasma printers!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:01 | 3001211 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Truth i see the euro completely broken before we get parity. Northern euro creates the Neuro which is around 1.75 to the dollar and southern europe creates the shart (southern hemisphere awesome recreational tourism).

No way the awesome bernak just stands around and accepts parity. IMO

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:58 | 3001227 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The shart. I like that. Or neuro and seuro.


I think that they're readying The Hail Mary; give the USD a big boost so that more Americans & Chinese (since the CN¥ is still pegged for all practical purposes) can have more purchasing power to buy reams more European shit, take vacations there, etc..

Given that the EU is imploding due to far more complex political AND economic infighting amongst different nations, and headed for a thermonuclear meltdown, the converse is just not feasible.

This, I think, has some logic to it, so there's probably a zero % chance of it actually happening.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:48 | 3001324 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

far too much logic, and so I think you can really forget about parity. and you are right aobut the complex political and economic infighting, but IMHO you are forgetting how scared the european political elite is - compared with the US one

EU imploding? I see them more and more huddling together. watch the BriXit discussion coming soon

nope, my expectations are still with the mercantilist bunch getting their shit together and the financialist bunch finding out how much unicorns really shit

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:38 | 3001370 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

If the Brits left the EU, the EU would impose sanctions so draconian that the Brits would come back on their knees begging to join the Euro. The sanctions would: (1) impose a total trade embargo (2) Declare the UK to be in rebellion against lawful authority, and thus all its assets and those of its corporations subject to immediate seizure (3) declare all citizens of the UK to be criminals that must be imprisoned for life when caught on EU territory (4) Use all imprisoned brits as forced labor.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:50 | 3001399 Acet
Acet's picture

Nah, they would just extended to the UK the same terms of access to the EU Market as they do for North Korea and yeah, that would apply to Financial Services too.

Since 70% of British exports are to the EU, the British Economy would stop it's current money-printer-sustained stall and just nosedive.

(The Brits need to diversify away from Financial Services and away from the EU as an export market, but because decades of strong pound courtesy of Financial Services killed most of the export Industry in the UK, they don't really have anything that foreigners want. Without political will for change - and far too many political campaign contributions come from the City - the place is condemned to, at best, several decades of stagnation)


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:35 | 3001415 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

andrewp111, read acet's reply carefully. I'm sorry to say I've been reading a lot of your comments on things like the EU and the EZ that left me at loss how to correct them. you seem to be either quite ignorant on some of the major mechanics or you are just shilling/trolling and I'm not sure what it is

your late "civil war" comments for example forget that every EU country has it's own military - it's not a "civil" war in this case, and you still haven't brought up your "casus belli"

your "sanctions against the UK" comments are also a bit on the iffy side - the main argument between continentals and the UK is not trade, it's banking - particularly the rehypothecating business. have a look who are the major trading partners of the UK before you start this kind of reasoning

the UK joining the EUR? and who would even think about allowing them? no, thanks! definitely not worth the trouble

your (2) "UK to be in rebellion against lawful authority" is also a bit on the bizzarro dimension side. and (3) and (4) sound so delirious I'd be happy to read how you think this could be even enforced - we continentals don't want to invest resources in additional prison space, thank you very much

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:46 | 3001444 Acet
Acet's picture

The EU would do nothing at all to try and keep the UK in.

Most people in the vast majority of the EU nations think that in the EU the Brits are just serial obstructionists, American proxies and not good-faith members of the EU. In most EU countries, loosing the UK is not seen as a bad thing, quite the contrary. This is not a recent thing: for decades the Brits have had a bad rep when it comes to the EU and have been seen as utterly greedy, selfish, shifty and hypocrit. The results is that the likes of the French and German have gathered a lot of power and respect in the EU, while the Brits have wasted any they had.

Now that I live in the UK (but not for much longer), it's painfully obvious to me that the Brits have a notion of their own self importance that is far above and beyond their actual relevance: modern Britain is not one of the great nations of the World, especially after the Financial crisis has exposed the truth about the "strength" of their economy and their financial industry.

All those "dreams" the Murdoch-dominated British press keeps pushing about how an EU exit would be and how the UK can go at it alone with the whole underlying background theme that the other EU nations would "miss us" are just spectacular pieces of pompous, ignorant self-deceit.

(PS: If you don't believe me, talk to any Brit that has been an imigrant in any other EU country)

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:32 | 3001365 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

The Bernank will buy EU bonds if it ever approaches parity.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:30 | 3001153 chump666
chump666's picture

Well hedge funds are making a killing on this now, they were hedging on DXY and HKD before the news, so...

Orly, remember the 'Marketwtach' Black Sunday-it's-gonna-happen-soon articles a few weeks back?  Well, timing may be out out, but the EUR and S&P notoriously pingpongs each other, plus if we see a surge in DXY spots and USTs, damn even oil could be a safe haven.  Nov crash could be imminent.

EUR breaks 1.20 psycho level, yeah it could capitulate to 1.17, 1.10 range maybe...sans Mario.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:39 | 3001166 Orly
Orly's picture

That psych-level is 750-pips from here!  Then to 1.10.  Wow.

Dude, I'd be rich!  (Or at least be making Chump kinda money- for a little while, anyway.)



Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:45 | 3001183 chump666
chump666's picture

lol, yeah well Chump money is good money!  At least it buys more Tequila, Scotch and Gin. 

Crash would be tasty though...

Mario burnt hedge funds before, this time he may let it sink and then blame the Germans. 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:12 | 3001285 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You bears are crazy. 

What happens after this crash?  The psuedo science of economics is put to bed?


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:52 | 3001325 Ajas
Ajas's picture

If you want to know where EURUSD lands, answer the following question:

What number is low enough to re-kickstart a continental export economy to a globally slowing market, when all global participants are equally attempting the same maneuvre, and yet which is HIGH enough to not augur imminent redenomination and EU breakup?

I don't know the exact answer, but I think mathematically it involves the square root of -1.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:30 | 3001363 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Don't laugh. By issuing Euros in units of i in addition to current denominations, they can add a whole new dimension to their currency. Interest rates could be set at multiples of i, or even complex quantities. It would confuse the public, since they wouldn't know if their real bank balance is going up or down until they thought about it too much.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:07 | 3001100 HD
HD's picture

Well, if Europe learned anything from the Fed's QE infinity failure - it will continue to use cheap talk over expensive action until the wheels come completely off.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:19 | 3001391 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea but those gold etf wheels keep rollin even after the car has stopped.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:11 | 3001113 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

There is a point when the:

01110000 01110011 01111001 01100011 01101000 01100101 01100100 01100101 01101100 01101001 01100011 00100000 01100110 01100001 01101110 01110100 01100001 01110011 01111001

Cease to matter.

If you're in NY (perhaps one of the lucky 70 GS anointed, whose names, addresses and online presence is now encoded permanently into every Mafia, Government and hacker's books, we're happy that GS did a prune before the announcement but that's what the way back machine is for) take a cab down to Long Beach. The illusion that "money matters" can break down. Fast.


(Oh, and... of course there's no agreement. Put your toe in the water before getting in, and all)

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 02:04 | 3001279 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

01001110 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01110011 01110101 01110000 01100101 01110010 01100110 01101100 01110101 01101111 01110101 01110011 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100001

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:11 | 3001115 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Who needs a real economy? All that matters is keeping up appearances. 


Spoon boy: Do not try and improve the economy. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. 
Neo: What truth? 
Spoon boy: There is no economy. 
Neo: There is no economy? 
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the economy that improves, it is only the banks. 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:38 | 3001257 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

Miller: A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice o' coincidence that lays on top o' everything. Give you an example; show you what I mean: suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.
Otto: You eat a lot of acid, Miller, back in the hippie days?
Miller: I'll give you another instance: you know how everybody's into weirdness right now?...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:12 | 3001117 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Need moar confidence. Oh wait, there's gold, what a novel idea...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 00:47 | 3001186 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

I'd be so happy with a morning futures -500 point limit down.

But the odds of that happening are nill. 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:09 | 3001219 pleseus
pleseus's picture

Monday.  Must kick can further.  Deal reached.  Smiles, back slapping all around.  Good for another 3 months before it starts all over again.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:45 | 3001441 youngman
youngman's picture

I read that into the comments too..this was not about making a decision...this was about making another meeting..with all the food and pompus regala...the royality show for the public...suits and carpets...and speeches in front of the mikes.....TV cameras and lights a blaring....that is what this is about...not decisions...expecially tough decisions...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:09 | 3001220 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Default!  Default!  Default!

Kill the Euro!  Kill the Euro now!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:25 | 3001239 Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

Who run Bartertown?


...I mean are we "there" yet?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:26 | 3001240 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Better give young Kevin Henry a wake-up call and get him to start pumping those futures back up...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:44 | 3001265 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

With Greece and the rest of us doomed to Rothschild zionist controlled slavery under the Euro, failure to agree on Greece is actually a positive

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 03:38 | 3001320 walküre
walküre's picture

Frau Merkel, we need a rumor schnell bitte!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:53 | 3001403 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

Merkel - I blockiert, bis nach den US-Wahlen, wie angewiesen.

I stalled until after the US elections as instructed.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 04:26 | 3001338 Euro Monster
Euro Monster's picture

Hey EUROGROUP! I got a message from Mr. Panos: "Fuck You, malaka!!!"

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 04:42 | 3001345 wEiRdO
wEiRdO's picture

Europe must stop using Greece as a scapegoat for their inefficiency and inadequacy to solve with a   definitive and insightful manner, the various manifestations of the crisis in the Eurozone.

They are draging their feet for the last three years...

I think that the masks are off, and everybody now knows who represents what and whom...

AntiEuropean sentiment in Greece will escalate after this farse!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:20 | 3001358 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

If Greece tries to secede, the Eurocrats will send a police force to occupy Athens, and the EU civil war begins.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:44 | 3001440 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"If Greece tries to secede, the Eurocrats will send a police force to occupy Athens, and the EU civil war begins."

If Greece tries to secede, there'd be a collective sigh in Germany that they can now settle for a loss on their previous bailout payments rather than have Greece continue the giant suck in perpetuity.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:33 | 3001361 honestann
honestann's picture

Leave the euro and eurozone.
Declare your independence.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:32 | 3001366 Lefteris
Lefteris's picture


Notice in this video, the sign in front of the prime minister does not say "Greece".

It says "Troika-Greece"



Wed, 11/21/2012 - 05:52 | 3001377 ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

God, the French are terrible at this game, their proxy LaGarde plays bad poker.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:25 | 3001383 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Juncker's bluff is getting junked and Lagarde's Gucci bag is empty. 

Troika sounds like Mark Anthony vs Augustus without poor old Lepidus now told to go retire in Lazio. 

Greece without fleece is now an irksome pebble. Maybe the Casino now moves to Spain and the ante goes up bigtime! 


Dexia: une dissolution "aurait des conséquences systémiques très graves"

 A bank that is now totally fubared whose inevitable liquidation has associated with it : 368.5 billion euros of debt, PLUS 605 billion of derivative contracts. This is JUST ONE LOUSY BANK!

Not only would the demise of Dexia affect the Banks by ripple effect but it would also effect sovereign bond debts as Dexia woud have to sell its 20 billion sovereign bonds by dumping on the market post haste. Good luck with that.

French and Belgian sovereign guarantees to Dexia's clients amount to 73.4 billion of its current debt...Dexia is systemic and dangerous. Draghi will he play the fireman once again? 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:08 | 3001412 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

ES positive.

I rest my fucking case.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:42 | 3001438 Incubus
Incubus's picture

The music was playing long enough for the smart people to gtfo the door.  The rest of the idiots kept playing musical chairs. Music's stopped.

Not enough seats.


The bloodbath will start soon.  Ready to get knocked back a few centuries?  Alright, then.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 08:07 | 3001470 snowlywhite
snowlywhite's picture

dude, give up... you look at that chart as it'd be an ufo... You're clueless, try something else...


1.282 - blow stops(duh! - how can you post something as stupid as "false started on the news"?), 1.276(blow yesterday stops), 1.273x(blow stops below H1 200 ma), reverse. It's going up! It does that for 1 week +.


and gimme a break with having "no reason". Fixing Europe will take at least 1 generation and everyone and their dog knows that. But it's eur/usd; hint - usd. That is - 16trl debt, 8% anual deficit.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 09:51 | 3001647 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

2013 will be the year when finally the shit hits the fan.


You still have a few weeks to convert your fiat into gold...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 10:04 | 3001682 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Someone somewhere FOOLED YA!


Euro back to 1.282



Wed, 11/21/2012 - 10:31 | 3001771 PGR88
PGR88's picture

"The Myth is Over" - really?   Greece has been on the verge of collapse for 4 years.   They are still in the Euro.   I'm beginning to believe nothing is going to happen.   The ECB and Brussels will ride this out.

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