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The Circle Is Complete: GM Reunites With GMAC

Tyler Durden's picture


When it comes to government bailout case studies, the past four years have plenty. One among them is the financial company jovially called Ally - a name which well-paid nomenclature consultants were convinced would inspire confidence and trust. And to an extent they were right - after all we are talking about a firm which several years ago had a far more unpleasant name: GMAC, short for General Motors Acceptance Corporation. It was GMAC which, as one of the various entities on the receiving end of involuntary taxpayer generosity in 2008/2009, received a $17.2 billion bailout. The reason for GMAC's Ally's collapse is that the firm was loaded up to the gills on various subprime and other NINJA auto-financing loans used to purchase cars made by that other spectacular collapse: General Motors, maker of such external combustion vehicles as the Chevy Volt. Over the past several months the Ally CEO, Michael Carpenter, decided to little by little start paying taxpayers back, having sold a Canadian unit to RBC in October for $4.1 billion, and its Mexican Insurance business to Ace Ltd for $865 million. Moments ago the firm just announced it would be selling its international auto-finance businesses, including its operations in Europe, LatAm and a 40% stake in its Chinese JV (a business it previously said it would not seek to divest), for a total of $4.2 billion. The buyer? Another previously bailed out company, and one which still counts the government as its biggest shareholder: General Motors. And so the vendor financing circle is now complete, with GM finally reuniting with its old captive finance units, or at least the international part of them, which were fully owned until GM sold 51% of it to Cerberus in 2006, after which everything went to hell.

From Bloomberg:

Acquiring some of Ally’s assets would help GM offer competitive loans in South America, where about 50 percent of car sales are financed, Jaime Ardila, president of that region for GM, said last month in an interview in Sao Paulo.

There... and every other place where GM is desperate to not only sell the car, but to provide the vendor financing as the locals just can't afford to buy that little piece of America they can't wait to call their own, if only until such time as the payments on said piece stop in 2 or 3 months. 

Another circle which is complete: that of peak credit stupidity, because while not having your own source of loans under the same roof at least provided for some operational prudence, now that GM can once again hand out loans like a drunken sailor to any Chinese or Latino American buyer that wishes to take a Chevy for a ride, and book the revenues immediately, even if the loan will be in default in several months, all bets are now off.

Sadly, as is now the norm, the US taxpayer is about to get reamed even more. Because while the $4.2 billion in receivables will be promptly repaid, what won't be, will be the tens of billions in soon to be delinquent and discharged loans that GMAC 2.0's balance sheet will be riddled with following more horrible decisions by management dead set on pushing sales regardless of the future hit to the balance sheet, and as a result, will soon lead to yet another bailout of Government Motors.

Finally, at least we now know what that $11 billion new revolver which the firm reported closing on just two weeks ago, and which provided for an extra $6 billion in dry powder, will be used for: GM will borrow at LIBOR + basis points, and use the proceeds to fund what will soon be a new international loan book in the tens of billions, which will be used with reckless abandon.


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Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:29 | 3003524 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

isnt this called LAUNDERING ????????

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:45 | 3003553 knukles
knukles's picture

Some things never change.

After all this, GM is now "officially" back to the same fuck up of an organization it always was , sans debt.

Ugly, lousy cars with a finance arm based upon sub-prime lending in home auto and God only knows what fields.

Oh, and they've moved a buncha the shit to China.

Thanks, Washington!


PS... Has anybody ever considered why Detroit has become a Ghost Town, a Battlefield?  What was once a healthy industry became  constantly violated by government rules, regulations, mandates, taxes and intervention.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:53 | 3003561 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Un. Be. Fucking. Lievable.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:59 | 3003578 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No shit...can you say fascism.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:07 | 3003589 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

What was that thing Einstein said about the definition of insanity?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:40 | 3003643 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Relevant to the desired results of course..........

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:50 | 3003838 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture
Video Update: "Bernanke Loses It"

Ben Bernanke Confronted on Secret Federal Reserve Bailouts

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:06 | 3003854 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

How dare anyone question GOD

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 00:06 | 3003917 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

@ Michael

Whooooooaaaahhh !!!

Thanks for the link.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:32 | 3003741 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

nothing insane about this. Just the Casino reopening with a new need to recognise that these events are not out of ignorance but premeditated with the bad debts being shifted to the sheeple. Can you say "shuffle" a new deck

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:22 | 3003797 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Good lord, those 35 financial institutions from 14 countries have got to have the shortest memories on the planet.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:08 | 3003594 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I was just about to say "fascism."  

And this is what we get...this sick company in the market place, f'n things up continuously.  

And I'll remind you that President Zero was so proud of this bailout, he actually had the audacity to bring it up during the debates, and M. Romney was so timid, he actually was put on the defensive for NOT supporting the bailouts...which he went on to claim that he did.

It has gotten so bad in this country, it is just ridiculous.  The culture out there is ignorant...and pretty much gone.


I will also remind you that the one decent thing that GM did in the last three decades was the creation of the Saturn Car company...which was tossed overboard, also to support the dead wood in this company...which later went on to try to reclaim their seriousness about fuel efficiency [which Saturns were known for] by building the f'n Chevy Volt...a car which immediatly priced itself out of the market...and required govt incentives to sell the few they did.

GM should be gone.  Period.  GM is a monument to incompetence.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:38 | 3003636 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

This is the "circle of death" - the snake devouring its own tail.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:40 | 3003788 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

And in other news, TV reporters with backbones;

Take this job and shove it: Fed-up Bangor TV anchors quit on air

In an interview with the Bangor Daily News, she and Consiglio said that they had become fed up with the station's management over the past four years. They described a feud over journalistic practices.

Michaels, WVII's news director, cited "constant disrespecting and belittling of staff" and editorial intervention by higher-ups. "It’s a little complicated, but we were expected to do somewhat unbalanced news, politically, in general,” she added.

“I just wanted to know that I was doing the best job I could and was being honest and ethical as a journalist, and I thought there were times when I wasn’t able to do that,” Consiglio said. 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:18 | 3003856 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

It'll be okay.

Give Fox a call.

Seriously ... right Michael?

(What - do you think working for CNN or PMSNBC will make their consciences rest any easier?)

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:44 | 3003900 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

In the end, there will be one Channle to rule them all:

F: 6

O: 15 = 6

X: 24 = 6

Foxy, like Fire Fox?

It's all in the names and symbols.


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 20:39 | 3005398 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Was that taken from a back issue of Numerology Today?

Or was that a product of your original work?

EITHER WAY, I'm sure it adds to your credibility in ways you will never know here on ZH ...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:41 | 3003648 withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

I hate to say it, but things will remain as they are "until that moment hits".

That moment will then knock everything in the stop position.  Cars, food, shipping, farming, you name it, it won't be about any financial CLIFF, that is a can to be kicked to infinity "i.e. JAPAN".

Nope...... It will be $6.00 per gallon gas


The only way I see it getting there will be a large war in the Middle East "sooner or later, take your bets"

Good day- Happy Thanksgiving ZHers, and TYLERS too

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:02 | 3003686 Midas
Midas's picture

Didn't Ron Paul say Romney's opposition to the auto bailouts cost him electoral votes?  I thought I read that here at ZeroHedge dot com.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 01:03 | 3003971 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

In the beginning, Saturn was made to make a low priced, no frills, well built car.  It was successful.  Towards the end, they were rolling out a bunch of high priced, frilly, not well built cars...  Hence they fell into the dustbin where they belonged.  The hubris of management IMO.  I drove a POS 99 saturn into the ground right after college... finally offloaded it after we got a mega hailstorm 2 years ago with 175k miles and no major mechanical issues with it....

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:16 | 3004338 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I was speaking primarily about the S series Saturn.  By all accounts, the L series was not a success, but many of their other models were, and followed in the S series footsteps, allbeit in a higher price range.  The move to "frilly" and larger vehicles was market based.

I recently bought a used S series for my son.  1999, 144k miles, still runs like it just came off the line, and pure fun to drive with its snappy five speed manual transmission.  Always gets over 30 mpg.  A totally impressive vehicle in terms of its powertrain.  Those cars are still all over the road...20+ years later.  

In later years, union and GM management issues did weigh on the company.  However, my point is that these things could have been overcome if the parent was not hemoraging cash the way it was, and looking for fresh meat to toss to the sharks.  Saturn continued to do business in its admirable way, straight up, no nonsense.  Try getting that from the rest of GM.

However, the point is moot...because GM SHOULD be dead and gone right now...and something more respectable growing up from its sold off know...something like Saturn.  It is my opinion that GM will never recover now.  Its brand is terminally damaged by its involvement with the Federal Govt., and because of the way the dead wood of the company screwed shareholds and bond holders, alike.

Die GM...just die already.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:40 | 3003646 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

unAmerican to purchase or deal with GM.

Don't cha' know.

- Ned

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:06 | 3003586 walküre
walküre's picture

Don't know about ugly. Their latest "Malibu" edition looks just as fancy as the Accord, Camry or Sonata. If these cars are selling, why not theirs? Good riddance to their Hummer and Plymouth brands. Cadillac and Buick had a pretty strong come back.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:31 | 3003623 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Uh, Plymouth was out of Chrysler Corp.

They did drop their Oldsmobile line-up however.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:05 | 3003692 Midas
Midas's picture

I am reluctant to buy GM because of the government.  This is unfortunate because I think the designers are building some of their best cars and they have nothing to do with all these circle jerk bailouts.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:17 | 3003714 walküre
walküre's picture

You could argue the opposite view. Until government stepped in, their cars were mediocre and didn't make the cut.

Pre-government = Aztec and other failures

Keep in mind that .gov is America's biggest spender and consumer anyway. So they buy their own cars. I'd rather they buy their own fuel to be honest but that's never going to happen in America.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:34 | 3003814 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I'm reluctant to buy GM, because I once did buy GM, and that car was the biggest hunk of shit and I had to repair it every two weeks.  I only buy Toyota/Honda/Nissan now.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:44 | 3003827 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm reluctant to buy GM because I was forced (by government) to buy it the first time. When my ole 98 GM truck dies (and its getting close) it won't be replaced by another GM product.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:43 | 3003898 Midas
Midas's picture

May I suggest a chevy Volt?  Save some money and wait for the fire-sale!

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 03:25 | 3004072 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

I buy Japanese and German.  I would NEVER buy a US made piece of shit

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:12 | 3003709 walküre
walküre's picture

lol .. crappy either way

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:53 | 3003773 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Not to mention redundant.

No difference between a Dodge or Plymouth mini-van other than the emblem.  A sheer waste of marketing $$$

And Oldsmobile was simply 'Cadillac light' for most models. (Mind you Buick / Pontiac exchanged a lot of design and parts too).

Ford was at least smart enough to drop the Mercury pickups which were Ford with a different tail-gate.

GM would be smart to do the same with their GM / Chevy trucks. No appreciable difference.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:11 | 3003598 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

just be a good sheeple eat your turkey and shop till you drop on friday.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:03 | 3003689 dirtyfiles
dirtyfiles's picture

I tought after they change that big chrome front grille it masked everything...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:07 | 3003853 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

Any state that invites or embraces the Auto Industry in is going to be fucked sooner or later. Look at what they did to Michigan and Ohio. They come in and get all these tax breaks with the promise of jobs. They then contaminate the whole fucking place. Then they ask for money to stay or they will close down the factory and move somewhere else. It never stops with these assholes and at the end of the day the whole fucking state pays.

They just fuck everyone up where ever they go. Cocksuckers......

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:03 | 3004106 Seer
Seer's picture

Yes, this is the FORMULA.  Unfortunately people don't realize that they're setting it all up for another round by clamoring to "bring back" jobs to the US.  People won't get it that it's inevitable (because anyone flying a US flag overseas is going to have to dodge bullets) and they'll embrace cutting off another arm to give to TPTB so the can rack up another round of huge subsidies ("tax breaks") in order to bring back the jobs.  And in all of this people will still believe that it's humans that do the work... MORE automation will occur, LESS jobs...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:59 | 3003579 BeagleOne
BeagleOne's picture

Same thing with AT&T. Broken up to get rid of the monopoly, then put back together through deregulation and ignoring antitrust merger laws...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:12 | 3003860 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Ignoring the elephants (Verizon, MCI et al) in the room are we?

You notice how well POTs lines vs Cellullar vs Skype are working out?

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:19 | 3004116 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Nothing is as reliable as a plain old telephone line.


I still have rotary dial.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 20:41 | 3004745 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

I did till the 12th of this month (no TT even! Had strictly *pulse* dialing for almost 3 decades! Refused to pay the fee for DTMF dialing which is just a 'software' and billing option change in the CO (central office) anymore) ... I will rely on 2m plus I've taken up operating 160 and 80 meters since about a year ago .. if cellular (and skype) totally implodes I've got that as 'fallback'  ...


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:36 | 3003817 beachdude
beachdude's picture

"external combustion vehicles as the Chevy Volt..."

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:35 | 3003536 phoolish
phoolish's picture



Shoot Me Now.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:14 | 3003789 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

To quote Barry and Joe:

"Bin Laden is dead.... and GM is alive!!!!!"

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:08 | 3003538 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Only in Norway is elec vehicles a success.

1. Cheap hydro elec power

2 . A oil / capital rich society

3.  extreme goverment tax breaks

4.   use of bus lanes by all elec. vehicles.

It does increase the countries internal redundancy to a small degree given its extreme power surplus.


Light simple elec vehicles such as the Twizy in France or Belgium (cheap Nuke power)  can work if you have the above conditions and live in compact towns where the local stores , rail station , work place etc is close at hand.


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:23 | 3004119 Seer
Seer's picture

Norway's a SMALL country with a SMALL population.

Hydro isn't forever: dams have a limited life-span (100 - 150 years)

And, of course, oil is finite (Norway's production peaked in 2001; NG production is what's keeping them positive in trade).

Pretty sure that Norway can carry on a bit longer following the big collapse, but they won't be able to drive away the problems that the future will bring.

"Light simple elec vehicles such as the Twizy in France or Belgium (cheap Nuke power)  can work if you have the above conditions and live in compact towns where the local stores , rail station , work place etc is close at hand."

Bicycles work better.  I've been to most of the Nordic countries (Belgium included), and traffic can be pretty difficult there too (much worse in Southern Europe from what I've heard).

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:18 | 3004156 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture


its population is growing larger through immigration.

I would have not started from this suburban matrix but we are where we are as we like to say in Ireland.

The fixed costs of suburbia and the market state are well fixed !!!!!!!

I don't think elec. cars can replace infernal conbustion cars but if your house is outside town yet less then 10 -20 miles from most of your business it makes sense for now.

It of course will not work in Ireland where most of the base load is nat gas powered. (transformation losses)







Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:38 | 3003542 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

GM sells GMAC to GM...yep you cannot make this stuff up!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:36 | 3003631 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

"GM sells GMAC to GM...yep you cannot make this stuff up!"

You could ... but then because truth is stranger than fiction, no one would believe you.

We really are living in an economic twilight zone where substance is almost impossible to differentiate from adumbrations.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:42 | 3003548 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

In order to maintain our current kleptocrat system of highly paid CEOs whose entire business model is to outsource manufacturing jobs so as to reduce input costs without regard to the obvious end result which is that the middle class can no longer buy what they are selling, it is essential in the short-term to offer more government "funded" (borrowed) cheap credit to replace middle-class income.  The debt turns into cash for the CEO's the day the loan is signed.  When that system inevitably fails, the CEOs will keep the cash and the bill to repay the debt will belong to taxpayers.   A conspiracy nut may think it's all part of a plan.....

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:15 | 3003602 augustus caesar
augustus caesar's picture

I would say that for some odd reason you seem to think that big business and government are two separate entities.

But then given your past posts I wouldn't want to imply you were capable of thought in the first place.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:26 | 3003607 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And I would say that you have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old, given that I routinely point out that the problem with our government is that it has been taken over by oligarchs.  My primary disagreement with many here is that I feel that rather than blame the concept of elected government, we should begin by blaming the oligarchs and taking government back (We the People, etc).  Nonetheless, does my personal insult to you (deserved as it may be) change your opinion?  

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:30 | 3003622 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

YES...........Beware the Corporate Industrial Complex

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:51 | 3003665 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, I've been meaning to bring that up...Ike's famous MIC its entirety:

Everyone DOES realize he's talking about crony capitalism, not just national defense, right? I direct everyones attention to number part:

"In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

  • and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific technological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society."

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:47 | 3003766 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

The "solitary inventor" of the past worked on much less complex problems than today's researchers.  Most basic-science and engineering research is done in universities now, which is part (but certainly not all) of why tuition is so expensive and why any university doing research probably also has a teaching hospital (major profit centers, even more so than tuition in some cases)—building nanoscale fab labs and conducting nuclear research and splicing genes and whatnot is expensive.  The U's develop tech, which gets spun off into a small company with offices in the U's "research park," and then a large corporation buys the smaller one and its patent portfolio, and the research migrates into the "real world."  

(Somewhere along the line, the Chinese may get a hold of it too, and then they mass-produce it with near-zero labor costs and make sure that no one can ever recoup the cost of the original research.  In no small part this is because of the absolute numerical dominance of Chinese students in many STEM grad programs.)

Sure, Bell Labs is still around, and MS has a research wing, but much of corporate America's R&D got offloaded to the universities, where it does get some federal funding (i.e. DARPA grants) but also lots of state taxpayer funding and tuition funding and hospital funding; the federal grants are less than you'd expect and much less than Eisenhower feared. It's certainly nowhere close to what you'd expect of a dystopian technocratic junta like ike was warning: in fact, given politicians' general disdain for or distrust of science (Rubio's recent comments come to mind, as does global warming), it looks like largely the opposite has happened.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:12 | 3003786 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've struck a nerve with a tenured professor or grantee perhaps ;-)

What is your opinion of the CIA having a "manmade global warming outreach" program?

"The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has shuttered its Center on Climate Change and National Security, an office created in 2009 to serve as the “focal point” of the agency’s work on the topic."

MIC or no MIC, in your opinion?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:44 | 3003825 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

If your business is foreign intelligence and security, as the CIA's is, you'd be pretty stupid not to look at anything that could affect global food prices. Food prices are predictors of social instability, and rising prices means people rising up against whomever they decide to hold responsible for their poverty. There's enough science behind global warming to make ignoring its potential for impact on food prices an act of negligence. Ignoring possibilities, however unpopular, doesn't keep anyone safe.

Perhaps of more immediate importance, though, governments' actions in response to the idea of global warming (i.e. higher gas/energy taxes) merit watching too. Whether or not you personally believe in AGW is irrelevant; whether foreign governments act on a belief in it is highly relevant, even if you feel those decisions are based on hogwash. China's green tech push might or might not make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but the fact that they're attempting to corner the market by buying up the necessary ingredients (available rare earth metals) and dumping manufactured products to shutter their competition should merit your attention and the CIA's. The CIA ought to keep some staff around to monitor AGW research and its importance in global markets and decision-making at the very least.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:16 | 3003848 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So, not only are you all in on government sponsership at every level of research...from MIC, to "climate change" you ok with them doing it off the books?...thats what I'm getting here by your comments.

"Multiple sources with knowledge of the center said it closed its doors earlier this year, with its staff and analysis continuing under other auspices.

CIA spokesman Todd Ebitz confirmed the change.

"The CIA for >>>several years<<< has studied the national security implications of climate change," Ebitz said in a statement to Greenwire. "This work is now performed by a dedicated team in an office that looks at a variety of economic and energy security issues affecting the United States."

No Congressional oversight, no taxpayer accountability, a black box. What office? Run by who? On what budget? This is exactly what Ike was talking about.

If the seas rise how much "intelligence" does it take to notice?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:56 | 3003909 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

If the seas rise, you'll know because the Navy bases will be flooded. That's not a key concern for the CIA, whose mandate is to watch the world and predict how foreign powers will act. If there's the possibility that climate change will cause food prices to spike, which in turn sparks revolutions like the Arab Spring (which started over food prices), which in turn allows parties unfriendly to the US to gain power, that's a legitimate concern for the CIA, and it's something that takes intelligence to figure out. If foreign governments, believing in AGW, raise taxes on energy supplies and industry, that's a legitimate concern for the CIA. Per the article you cite, the CIA wasn't conducting or funding research in AGW, just reading what was already being done by other groups and exploring the implications for migration, social instability, and economic effects.  From the article you mention:

The center didn't focus on the science behind climate change but instead relied on data from other government agencies as well as recommendations -- including ones in a report released just over a week ago -- from the National Academy of Sciences.

That's what the CIA is supposed to do: integrate data to project what other countries are going to do. They're not looking at whether AGW is real, they're looking at how it might affect other nations and how the belief in it affects their decisions. This is called intelligence (i.e. the thing the CIA does besides conducting drone strikes). From the article, it sounds like the work was decentralized instead of being cancelled outright:

"You need to have the expertise also embedded in the regional bureaus, divisions, departments of the agency," the former official said. "That's often how the strategic thinking and analysis is organized -- by country and region. If you don't have [issues such as] climate, energy, health, natural resource issues included in your country and regional geostrategic analysis, then you're missing part of the picture."

Again, no matter how much you personally might agree with or disagree with climate change research, knowing what other countries know about it and how they act based on that information, and knowing what could happen if the research is right, is essential to the CIA's mission. They don't study you (there are other organizations for that): they study how other nations (which might have very different opinions from you) behave and what might happen overseas.

If you want to criticize spending on AGW research, the funding is coming from places like the National Academies of Science, not the CIA, which just reads the info produced through NAS and other groups. If you want to criticize recent CIA actions on the basis of Eisenhower's speech, the armed drone program would be a better place to start looking. That's deeply enmeshed with the military-industrial complex and involves the secret purchase and use of MIC hardware; that is a black box with unclear oversight and an unknown budget. The CIA's AGW people reading research that other groups had already done and applying that information to foreign security issues sounds more like open-source intelligence, which is pretty much the cheapest kind available.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:17 | 3004115 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

If the military industrial complex had anything to do with intelligence, why did they move almost all industrial capability to other countries that are not friendly to our military?


Maybe because they would rather benefit some other nation, group, or conspiratorial agenda.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:36 | 3004123 Seer
Seer's picture

"why did they move almost all industrial capability to other countries that are not friendly to our military?"

Have data?

Think Trojan Horse... 

Further, the US always has the last bit of integration for its own uses.  I'm pretty certain that this is mandated.  I don't, however, dispute any claims that the US acquires components produced elsewhere; it's just that I (and everyone else) don't have the data necessary to assess the risks.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:44 | 3004222 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"If there's the possibility that climate change will cause food prices to spike, which in turn sparks revolutions like the Arab Spring (which started over food prices)..."

No it didn't, it started in Tunisia over oppression by government itself. A fruit vendor set himself on fire after being told he didn't have the proper government permit to earn a living. It had zero to do with "food prices". This is very much common knowledge.

And the CIA didn't see it coming that any oppressed people would one day rise up?

Its also a verifiable fact AGW computer models couldn't predict air temperature in a known time frame, so they needed to come up with a different model that would. Within the "shovel ready jobs stimulus" funding is provided for just NASA for one.

Not exactly roads and bridges, more like fraud, waste & abuse.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 09:22 | 3004242 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Social unrest may reflect a variety of factors such as poverty, unemployment, and social injustice. Despite the many possible contributing factors, the timing of violent protests in North Africa and the Middle East in 2011 as well as earlier riots in 2008 coincides with large peaks in global food prices. We identify a specific food price threshold above which protests become likely.

ZH itself has sourced GS documents on this:

We have been very active in our discussions of the impact of the pending rise in food prices around the world (from central bank largesse to weather-related chaos). As Goldman notes, food inflation has been one of the most significant sources of headline inflation variation in emerging markets (EM) over the past few years.


Bread prices comparison 1848 - 2011, and revolutions

Low-income and lower-middle-income countries are experiencing on average 5% points higher food price inflation compared to better-off countries. A special focus on the Middle East and North Africa region in this issue shows double-digit food price inflation in Iran, Egypt and Syria, with more moderate levels in other parts of the region. - World Bank


The spark event was our infamous trader protesting at Government bribes, but the underlying cause was people frustrated at their Government's inability to control the market prices. This is also why Lybia required a special nudge, due to Government subsidies.

Government spending faces major pressures as subsidies and other forms of wealth transfers are channelled to those most affected by the conflict. As a result, the budget is expected to show a deficit equal to 17.1% of GDP in 2011, compared with a surplus of 8.7% in 2010...Given that the country imports the majority of its food – perhaps as much as 75% according to some estimates -- the upturn in prices can be attributed in part to the rise in food costs. Food shortages during the conflict combined with price increases in the international market in 2011 greatly contributed to the increase in inflation. Inflation is expected to ease but ongoing pressures will keep it at 6% in 2012 and 5.1% in 2013. It is likely that government subsidies will be maintained or even increased, thus ensuring that prices for many staple goods remain stable


If you read between the lines, Gaddafi subsidised food, and thus maintained stability. That's why NATO special little elves and airstrikes were needed.


So, at this point: I can't figure out if you're simply a low-information ideolog, someone being amusing or a shill. Down-vote for misinformation though.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 09:11 | 3004252 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 09:11 | 3004255 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Bumped your entire chain for well reasoned intelligent opinion on what the CIA does in this area.


If you're interested in the "Grey Men" of US politics, and the people who actually run the day-to-day of the Government, you could do worse than looking at the GAO - The head of GAO, the Comptroller General of the United States, is appointed to a 15-year term by the President from a slate of candidates Congress proposes. Gene L. Dodaro became the eighth Comptroller General of the United States and head of the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) on December 22, 2010, when he was confirmed by the United States Senate. He was nominated by President Obama in September of 2010 and had been serving as Acting Comptroller General since March of 2008.

The appropriate entities within the Executive Office of the President, such as the Council on Environmental Quality and the Office of Science and Technology Policy, in consultation with relevant federal agencies, state and local governments, and key congressional committees of jurisdiction, should develop a national strategic plan that will guide the nation's efforts to adapt to a changing climate. The plan should, among other things, (1) define federal priorities related to adaptation; (2) clarify roles, responsibilities, and working relationships among federal, state, and local governments; (3) identify mechanisms to increase the capacity of federal, state, and local agencies to incorporate information about current and potential climate change impacts into government decision making; (4) address how resources will be made available to implement the plan; and (5) build on and integrate ongoing federal planning efforts related to adaptation.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:56 | 3003644 augustus caesar
augustus caesar's picture

Any government that is powerful enough to dictate the terms of a man's economic life ( and consequently his social life ) will inevitably be filled with 'oligarchs' given enough time. Power is a magnet to the worst of humanity. Seeking a noble philosopher king      ( or for that matter in a Republic you would be asking for a consistent majority of 'noble-philosopher professional politicians' ) to rule us justly is statistically speaking from a historical perspective a losing proposition. The phrase 'God helps those that help themselves' goes back thousands of years before Christ but given our current religious climate it can be read as 'The Nature of Universe is that those that help themselves will reap future rewards for their actions'. Individualism and self responsibility may be difficult and tiresome for people to sustain, but to date these concepts properly applied have resulted in humanity's greatest achievements. If you truly desire to give power back to the people then you must also re-apply the constitutional restraints to government this country was founded on.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:09 | 3003673 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I see we have a newly minted straw man creator here.  Careful not to light a match.  Of course it is always much easier for the intellectually lazy and ideologically blind to debate against outrageous positions taken by no one other than their own imagination, than to discuss solutions that go beyond platitudes such as "individualism [is good]."  I do not advocate for a philosopher king.  I advocate for a system of checks and balances where a few huge corporations, wealthy heirs, and bankers tapped into the Federal Treasury do not control the two almost identical teams (Blue and Red) that are foisted upon the People each election cycle.   We had such a system once in the West.  It was taken over by oligarch sociopaths and the intellectually lazy and ideologically blind who worship them, claiming that they believe in individualism and freedom when in fact they abhore those principles for anyone but themselves.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:03 | 3003737 augustus caesar
augustus caesar's picture

What I was trying to convey to you before is that the convergence of corporate and political power is the only logical conclusion of the erosion of limitations on the government's ability to regulate economic activity. You blame the private sector, but I blame the politicians that have created an economic climate that has incentivized businesses to act the way they do.

I sincerely hope you have a good rest of your night.

Addendum : You are right I was too harsh in my opening statement as I have come to the conclusion that you do genuinely believe corporate and political interests are one and the same. Our disagreement, which you touched upon earlier and I sensed from the tone of your first post, ultimately lies in whom we believe to be responsible for the reality we now face.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:42 | 3004390 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Agree. It's a chicken and egg thing - but the reality is today there is no real difference between corporations and the government. 


It's a revolving door from one to the other. 


Once the shit crashes, we can rebuild with REAL separation between the two. 


The founding fathers wanted to separate church & state, but we need now to separate business and state. 

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 02:34 | 3004044 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Non sequitur

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:53 | 3003840 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

We can begin wherever you want, but to take back our government will  mean we have to kill it first - along with those oligarchs. Barney Frank will not go down as easily as one might think.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 02:06 | 3004027 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

You said Barney Frank and not go down easily. 


That's not what the fannie / freddie boys say.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:44 | 3003550 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


...external combustion vehicle.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:32 | 3003626 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


I thought so too.

Deserves a rimshot.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:07 | 3003700 Midas
Midas's picture

I am definitely stealing that line... 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:35 | 3003815 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

In the case of my Volt, the external "combustion" is fusion in the sun...I'm not on the grid.  It IS a good line, though.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:40 | 3004126 Seer
Seer's picture

You're one of the 49%-ers then, as 51% of US electricity (I am assuming you're in the US) is generated from coal.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:52 | 3003560 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


You wanna play the Big can't let 'em know they've been conned...u gotta keep it going.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:47 | 3003556 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:53 | 3003566 knukles
knukles's picture

True story:

A chap was in divorce proceedings and in an effort to just please make this shit go away, finalize it and move on, was ordered by the court to buy his wife a new car with a value in excess of whatever the number was.  So, in compliance with the order, bought her a Bright Yellow Aztec!


Only in Kalifornia.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:39 | 3004381 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

I hope he got her the tent attachment for the back.


So awesome camping out back of your Aztec - looks like the thing is trying to shit but got stuck halfway out.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:57 | 3003572 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@jumbo maverick

Walter White is willing to sell you his.  Forget that it has the DNA of several people who got in the way of his meth operation.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:30 | 3003621 knukles
knukles's picture

Walter White, in spite of being a morally bankrupt, bad, genuinely evil individual, bringing death and destruction down upon everybody far and wide...

Is The Man!

Walter can even drive an Aztec and make the thing look good!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:49 | 3003559 piceridu
piceridu's picture's Cronyism not Capitalism my friend...Governments/Corporations unholy partnership...CEO's promise campaign financing in exchange for eternal bonuses at the expense of their workers and the other tax paying wage's the circle of crony life don'tcha know...

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:44 | 3004128 Seer
Seer's picture

While capitalism is a good theory, it won't hold up when exposed in the real world, just as we've come to see.  NO economic/social theory is going to be able to hold off greed (and corruption, which is only an expression of greed).



CENTRALIZATION = FAIL (because it promotes BIG, which attracts POWER)

No theories here.  Simple formulas for use going forward.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:53 | 3003563 BeagleOne
BeagleOne's picture

Even the fascist, Hitler loving Henry Ford knew that employees had to be paid enough to afford the product they were manufacturing.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:45 | 3004130 Seer
Seer's picture

Boeing never got the memo...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:54 | 3003567 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

what a bunch of fucking douche bags   ally holds my mortgage, bankrupt fucks!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:11 | 3003597 walküre
walküre's picture

Are you sure? Stop paying.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:54 | 3003568 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Irony, sweet irony.  The government-funded bailout was just a bridge loan to a brigher future.  Here we are, 3+ years later and GM is ready to spread it's proverbial wings.  It will soar into the heavens, and drop a huge pile of gauno on the American taxpayer in 2013.  How blessed are we?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:55 | 3003570 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

"Acquiring some of Ally’s assets would help GM offer competitive loans in South America"  Right, a loan firm calls it's outstanding loans "assets"  Can I do that?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 19:59 | 3003576 Hangfire
Hangfire's picture

From the people that brought you the Cobalt...  

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:35 | 3003630 knukles
knukles's picture

The Irony of it All.

The Ham-bones in DC decry excessive fuel and conspicuous consumption, create the useless beast called a Volt which is a Dramatically Brilliant Failure, subsidize the shit out of it with taxpayer money and call it a success to entreat the feel good shit of the uber lefties, greenies, tree huggers and Birkenstockers while making money off the Corvette and the fastest production car in the world, the Cadillac Big Penis.

There is genuinely something fucking wrong with this picture...

Dear God please give me my country back.
I promise I'll behave like Wall;y or the Beaver....

(gets what we sows)

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:00 | 3004105 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

God helps those who help themselves.


You have to take it back.


I try to do that by living within my means. No debt. Pay credit cards off every month for zero finance charges. Buy used cars so I don't have to take a several thousand dollar hit to drive it off the lot. Pay cash whenever possible.


If you really want to eff the banksters, stop in, and withdraw large sums of cash. Really messes up their fractional reserve levels. If you take out $5000, that denies them the ability to loan $50,000.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 05:49 | 3004132 Seer
Seer's picture

"Dear God please give me my country back."

Which one would that be?

Selective memory is likely the mechanism, as to rewind things to the "beginning" one would have to ask the indigenous people their pick.

BTW - I have no interest in having any "country."  Such thinking only breeds nationalism.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:00 | 3003580 danielvisionvic...'s picture


If you get a chance, please check out our new video, it is a spin off of my video,  The Day The Dollar Died (released 2 yrs ago today). My new one is,  The Day the World Ended, we put a lot into it and I think it will help wake people up to how easy things could get out of control.

Kind Regards,


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:17 | 3003605 walküre
walküre's picture


Very well done! Congrats.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:31 | 3003617 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

why the fuck is silver down ???????


EDIT ... OK Silver is now over $493 on ebay.....BRING THE END OF WORLD !!!!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:40 | 3003645 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

nice job with the vid. The only issue I see is that Oil/Gold/Silver would all be halted before they have a chance to spike. Almost everything would be halted except aapl which HFT's will pump up. CNBS will have a panel of analcysts out there all day explaining that apple is the only thing you should own anyway, so it;s all good.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:45 | 3003901 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



ha thsaid anal

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:54 | 3003669 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Excellent, dude!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:47 | 3003767 optimator
optimator's picture

Very well done, reminded me or "Orwell style" presentation.  In the given situation I'd guess our communications would be totally shut down before Monday markets open.  Notice I didn't say the market would be closed?  I'm sure can guess who would be able to buy and sell!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:08 | 3003782 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

" If you get a chance, please check out our new video, ... "

Oh c'mon ... nothing could beat real-life, certainly not fiction!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:40 | 3003892 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Thank You!


and who is Tyler Durden anyway..

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 01:26 | 3003986 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

The first rule about Project Mayhem is you DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS!


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:26 | 3003615 gould's fisker
gould&#039;s fisker's picture

GMAC II--the spectacular flameout continues!  Ceremonial daggers for everyone!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:39 | 3003640 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

The final death of this great ponzi is going to be something else!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:48 | 3003657 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

If by something else you mean something other than death, then I believe you are correct.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:42 | 3003650 logicalman
logicalman's picture

YOU TRULY COULDN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP - without getting laughed at, anyway!

The BIG reset is coming - just not soon enough.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:47 | 3003655 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Why pay anything for anything these days with zero dwon loans for everything from houises to cars to who knows what else. Just pass the losses onto someone's the New Paradigm!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:51 | 3003664 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Think of what that means to all those thirsty Arab farmers. [/brewster's millions]

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:08 | 3003701 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

A classic movie.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 20:52 | 3003666 patb
patb's picture

The volt is a pretty good car, and an excellent drivetrain.


it's issues are mostly 1.1 and 1.2 fixes 


The Volt will improve and continue to pick up especially if GM would put in an external inverter and a  

set of battery choices.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:01 | 3003680 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

That and both driver's side and passenger side fire extinguishers.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:07 | 3003699 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

And a 1 ton, 4x4, diesel quad cab, with all accessory options included. Then they would be about perfect.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:11 | 3003785 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

" The volt is a pretty good car, and an excellent drivetrain. "

What's your range on a single charge again?

How about on a morning where I need heat and the defroster?

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 02:27 | 3004037 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

I'm betting the square root of your IQ is comfortably in the single digits.

On that cold morning, if the battery on your Volt doesn't have enough power, THE GASOLINE ENGINE THAT IS PART OF THE DRIVETRAIN KICKS IN. First, it attempts to provide the battery with enough power to drive the electric motor; failing that, it can actually drive the car. Why morons like you keep ignoring that fact is beyond me; I suspect you're incapable of comprehending it.

Any engineer worth his salt has looked at the internal combustion engine, with its overall efficiency limited by the Carnot cycle, transmission losses, and crappy upkeep to about 25%, and said 'there has to be a better way'. I'm not going to say that's necessarily the Volt; I've never driven one. But idiotic comments like yours are proof that weak minds can't absorb new ideas.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 04:50 | 3004101 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

They seemed like perfectly valid questions, but you don't know the answer, do you?


How does use of the heater affect battery levels?


Answer- Sucks the battery dry, and sucks everything else too.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:02 | 3004137 Seer
Seer's picture


If you're drawing energy for heating then THAT energy is NOT available for propulsion.  This has NOTHING to do with batteries or gasoline -the TYPE of energy- it's about ENERGY, period!

So, you're wrong.

However, the REAL question should be: how much energy does the heater (and defrosters) consume, how many fewer miles (or fractions thereof) can the vehicle go?

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:34 | 3004496 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture



What part of this fairly simple logical construct is too much for you?

 If ((power draw) < (battery power available))

       then (car runs on battery)

      else (car runs on gasoline engine)

Either way, the car runs, and the ultimate arbiter of how far you can go is how much initial charge you had on your battery AND how much gas is in your tank.

Geezuz, you guys are clueless.

"This has NOTHING to do with batteries or gasoline -the TYPE of energy- it's about ENERGY, period!" Yes, and if you run your air-conditioning on your current vehicle, your gas consumption goes up as well, shortening your range. But I've never heard anyone get hysterical about "ZOMG, if you run air conditioning, your range goes down by 10%!". Why is this a huge concern for vehicles that have electricity/gasoline engines, but not a concern for gas only engines?


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 13:30 | 3004770 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



So FrankDrakman, are you by your own admission above saying that "electric" is NOT ready for prime time (your FALLBACK postion is reliance on a liquid fossil fuel in an internal combustion engine - did you notice that)?


Thought so .. and it WON'T be for a long, LONG time.


See, FrankDrakman, it is very, very tough to beat the (CAUTION: ENGINEERING TERM COMING UP FrankDrakman)  energy density of liquid hydrocarbon fuels. We will see CNG to a MUCH larger degree used in vehicles than we will ELECTRIC and electric has had a head start.


Who looks to be deficient in 'brain power' and comprehension now?


Why, you, FrankDrakman, who looks to defy, ignore and not understand (not necessarily in this order) the laws of physics, chemistry and practicality in a trifecta of ignorance.


What a maroon!



Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:08 | 3003688 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

FWIW Penn station has been shut down for hours. that has to be the biggest clusterfuck in history on the biggest travel day of the year. I would feel like one big sitting duck in that place right now.

edit: Bah nevermind. it's up and running now

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:06 | 3003696 NeedleDickTheBu...
NeedleDickTheBugFucker's picture

POS(a) + POS(b) = POS(ab)

The above formula is sometimes referred to as a shit sandwich.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:24 | 3003729 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

You intend to mean that there is synergy in shit? That would explain everything.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:07 | 3003697 venturen
venturen's picture

Where is my governemnt issued car! 

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:25 | 3003731 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

You just have to be patient.

"The lifespan of an average Trabant was 28 years, probably due to the fact that it could take over ten years for a one to be delivered from the time it was ordered and people who finally received theirs were very careful with it. Subsequently, used Trabants often fetched a higher price than new ones, as they were available immediately."

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 04:44 | 3004100 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Cool ride! 2-stroke are dirty, but simple.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:06 | 3004139 Seer
Seer's picture

I was able to achieve flashback going to Manila, where there's a TON of old 2-cycles running around (in the form of 1970s era motorcycles).  Noisy fucking things they are... (no objections when I was younger- how things change, and, don't change)

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 14:40 | 3004960 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

They probably still make them.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:18 | 3003720 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

What do we call a reverse-Phoenix?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:03 | 3003851 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Xineohp? I don't know but I love the question!

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:53 | 3003910 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

1) The Chinese would say a dragon.
2) The Egyptian a sphinx.
3) How about a Twinkie?

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 04:41 | 3004098 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:07 | 3004140 Seer
Seer's picture

I've been calling it (for years) "economies of scale in reverse."  It's going to be a real bitch...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 21:36 | 3003751 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Finally I understand the difference between socialist and capitalist central planning.

In socialist central planning things are produced that nobody wants or needs, but you have to pay for them.

In capitalist central planning things are produced that nobody wants or needs, but you can get them literally for free at taxpayer expense.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:16 | 3003790 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

OK, those of you who have been advocating actions which will lead to the collapse more rapidly - in the words of Michael Corleone: I'm with you now.


Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:17 | 3003792 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Now I know what chemtrail spraying does.
Makes yous docile......

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:30 | 3003805 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"external combustion vehicles"

Wish I could +1 the Tylers...that made me snarf Jim Beam out my nostrils.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 22:50 | 3003836 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

Seems like the non-taxpaying Obama shills on welfare will get the last laugh.  I wonder how many taxpayers voted for more socialism?  Because you are going to get it big time, especially when we have an all-electric grid powered by stupid panels and windmillies and everyone is forced to own a volt or pay a fine as in government health care mandates.  Buy GM stock, the taxpayer has your back.  Gotta protect those overpaid union crybabies.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:34 | 3004151 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"Our culture has been trained to look down at those poorer than ourselves and scrutinize them more closely for such infractions on the slave work ethic. That way we aren't looking higher up the ladder to see who is defecating on us. It's a nice trick that works well for the owners and their slaves." ???????

You are well trained my young slavling.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 23:49 | 3003850 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'the world as americanization sees it, is one's oyster... as a `certain?' greenspan made it so. riding high on the tailcoats of a pragmatize'd volcker hence, all but for a lengthy decade has past with much prescience makes but little sense.  all that twas full-bloom lays dormant and drain'd... a peculiar unknown wallowing in a dampened despair- that of a perpetual-circle-of-poison' awash in a maelstrom with no where to call home. aye, but for the 'oyster`acizing' of our translucent turquoise pristine shores... where a certain chairsatan lays rest his very own footstool, thy dastardly fool is heathen'd.  our elusive bounty hunter has mutiny'd and run amuck- ground'd in a bottomless abyss, a chasm, never to give up its bloated dead... this sea of economic-red-tide's.  where once secluded and abandoned... now begotten'd with unimaginable, unfathomable numbers of dead. indeed, justice be swift being rancid carcass's... that of the infamous squid.  litter'd and painting the shorelines in seas of red ink- the full moon shown smiling, mirroring a crimson calm tide. naught a lead'd-fiat-ballast could right the once mighty`hms?americana'... for king dollar has drown'd in gluttony's hubris defeat. having it's pulp'd fodder bleached whence shredded upon the dead'ed shadow of a once benevolent sun, slighted by a narcissistic federal reserve having no respect, but a quasi-esoteric and opaque entropy. tis enough said '

*bottomline... we've morphed into a state-run corporate entity paralleling a not so distant and perhaps reset-nascent, ussr? 

thankyou tyler

thanks zerohedge for being out there where most never dare... and a special hello to Julian Assange if you can hear?

happy thanksgiving :-)) 

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 00:20 | 3003936 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Whoa.  It's so retro.  Does this mean GM will bring back the Corvair and the Pontiac Aztec?  Awesome.


Thu, 11/22/2012 - 00:47 | 3003957 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

I love to see Obama do a 'Twinkie Union Bailout' .... Have a Kensian mandate that food stamp recipients be given twenkies.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 01:30 | 3003993 Glass Seagull
Glass Seagull's picture

(smiles nervously as he looks at his Ally Financial Ultra HY money market account statement and asks) "But there's no way this can happen twice, right?"

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:11 | 3004141 Seer
Seer's picture

No worry.  As "They" have been saying: "This time is different!"  You just have to "believe" </sarc>

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 03:47 | 3004041 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

GMAC? Give...Me... Another...Chance. Lets get real, yeah they sold trucks but the people that bought them couldn't pay for them. Now we got a goverment bailout funded ALLY? GM Just bought the largest subpime lender Americredit so that if the paper was so bad that ALLY wouldn't take it the dealers would finance through Americredit-Ally and anyone that could fog a mirror would get bought and delivered, no questions asked...Just sell the cars... BITCHEZ...Lets try to teach this UNION, KEYNESIAN,PIPE DREAM,FICTICOUS,BOOGEY MAN,SAVE THE FRIKEN WORLD MESSIA wanna be,,,, that... We don't want your stinken bailouts. The only people that need your bailouts are the banks..... Check this shirt out....22/1 SHADOW banking, 700 TRILL in derivitives you acually claim are worth something? Give me a BREAK...PLEAEEEEEEEEEZE

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time". Abraham Lincoln

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 02:41 | 3004051 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

My how shit floats. I'm pretty sure Carpenter was with CITI before.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 06:15 | 3004143 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Step1 Raise petrol taxes to European levels

Step 2 Withdraw all military from the Middle East and stop extrajudicial assasignations

Step 3 Use savings from military drawdown and petrol taxes to subsidise the Volt even further and fund more research into better versions.

WinWin. No more oil wars (dragging in your allies) and energy independence for the US.

Hey. It's worth a shot!

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 07:06 | 3004169 giggler123
giggler123's picture

East Germany's (GDR) Trabant car springs to mind, well certainly Government Motors anyhow...

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 12:49 | 3004683 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Except that General Motors & Chrysler provide more power & muscle per dollar than any of their foreign or foreign-beholden (read: Ford) peers.


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