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David Rosenberg: "What A Joke" - A Realistic Thanksgiving Postmortem

Tyler Durden's picture




 

David Rosenberg is not amused. Or maybe he is. In a world in which supreme absurdity is an everyday occurence, who knows, or cares, any more.

From Gluskin Sheff

What A Joke

The Saturday Globe and Mail (page 811 ran with this special feature:

Ready to Spend: An American Comeback Story

Once again, I have to stress that the true measure of a country's standard of living is national income, not narcissistic spending. And the critical driver of income, beyond working-age population growth, is productivity. Not just labour, but multi-factor productivity. All the talk is about the revival of the consumer, but as we see in this post-Thanksgiving period, retailers are stepping over themselves to lure in shoppers by opening earlier than ever and discounting like they never have before. Call it deflationary growth. But what the article fails to notice is the downtrend in business capital spending. The article doesn't mention that there has been no capital deepening in the USA. in well over a decade.

And what the article does seem to heed is the message that was so clearly delivered by Ben Bernanke last week, which is that the U.S. economy's non-inflationary speed limit is in secular decline. And with that, as I put my market strategist hat on. I would say the fair-value P/E multiple is really only being supported now by the artificial manipulation by the Fed to drive real interest rates into record negative terrain.

* * *

And some other thoughts from Rosie:

Beware of all the talk of how great the post-Thanksgiving sales have been. All the comparisons are with year-ago levels, and a year ago, sales were not being pulled into Thanksgiving day as they were this time around, so these are not apple-to-apples benchmarks (the sort of person that leaves the family dinner on Thursday to head to Best Buy, Toys R Us, Target and Wal mart so as to be the first to line up for the 8 PM door-opening blockbuster deserves some social commentary — I'm not sure that is what the pilgrims had in mind when it came down to giving thanks). We heard the same blow-out Black Friday and Cyber Monday data this time in 2011 and the rest of the shopping season was a bit of a dud (see Early Push for Sales Undercuts Black Friday on page B1 of today's NYT).

Meanwhile, the spending culture is alive and well in America, nonetheless, with ShopperTrak data showing 300 million store visits on Black Friday alone (that's almost the entire population — didn't anyone make it to work?). It's not "Black Friday" any more but it has now become a four-day "Black Weekend" and as such, year-over-year data are very misleading (nobody can accuse the retailing lobby from not being creative — it is trying to make it a five-day weekend now with the extension to Mobile Tuesday  I kid you not — see page 32 of the NYT).
 
There was a pundit on CNBC early this morning stating that the American consumer is "on fire". Yet ShopperTrak also noted that while traffic was UP 3.5% year-on-year on Black Friday, actual dollar sales fell 1.8% (which goes to show how intense the "doorbuster promotions" were in cannibalizing retailer margins). Today's WSJ cites an IBM survey, based on data from 500 retailers, that the average order per customer shrank 4.7% from a year ago. And an analysis by Chase Paymentech (a sub of JPMergan Chase) concluded that in-store sales tumbled 7% YoY on Saturday. The National Retail Federation was predicting, based on its survey, 147 million shoppers hitting the malls, but the actual, 137 million that it tracks fell short.

While Cyber Monday could provide a lift (after all, for the first time, over half of consumers said they shopped on-line over the weekend), this does not detract from the view that what the retailing community has done is condition the consumer to conduct as much of the holiday shopping as possible over one weekend. Again, remember last year's pattern... if you loaded up on the S&P retailing group in mid-November of 2011, you ended up losing money by the end of the year... despite the initial "bullish" holiday spending data.

So the one conclusion to make right is it is too early to tell how the holiday shopping season will unfold, but we came off a Q3 where both the quarterly rate and YoY pace was 2% in real terms which is actually close to half the long-term trend. Retail sales slipped 0.3% in October if memory doesn't escape me. And real personal incomes excluding government handouts peaked and began to roll over in July. Retailers have a declining personal savings rate to thank because the sort of low-paying jobs that are being created are hardly generating anything close to an enthusiastic trend on household incomes. I realize that the latest "bullish" University of Michigan consumer sentiment data captured everyone's attention, but the weekly tracking by Rasmussen is actually showing that the influence from lower gas prices and higher equity/home values may be waning — this index slipped to 89.1 as of November 23rd from 95.2 on November 9th to stand at a six-week low.

Moreover, it will be interesting to see the extent to which the 40% of the five million Americans that received unemployment insurance react ahead of the possible expiry of their emergency benefits (see page A4 of today's WSJ — Deadline Looms for Long-Term Unemployed) The spending impact could be as much as a $60 billion annual rate.

And business sentiment is certainly moribund, underscored not only by the survey data but also by the IPO calendar, which is devoid of any new deals in the pipeline both this week and next (see A Cold December for IPOs on page C3 of today's WSJ).

THE BIG PICTURE

We remain in the throes of a secular era of disinflation. We also are in a long-term period of sub-par economic growth and below-average returns. This has become so well entrenched that U.S. pension plans now have more exposure to bonds than to stocks, as we highlighted two weeks ago. Look, this is not about being bearish, bullish or agnostic. It's about being realistic and understanding that in our role as market economists, it is necessary to provide our clients with information and analysis that will help them to navigate the portfolio through these stressful times. Our crystal ball says to stick with what works in an uncertain financial and economic climate — in other words, maintain a defensive and income-oriented investment strategy.

It is our contention that in this post-bubble, mean-reverting process, the ability for policymakers to re-create the credit cycle, reflate asset values and ignite a consumer-led recovery is going to be thwarted by secular changes in attitudes towards borrowing, saving, discretionary spending and homeownership. In other words, even after enough debt is paid off, the baby boomers' spending years will be focused on putting their money in the coffee can. The first of the boomers are now turning 65 and the median boomer is now 55, going on 56. At the margin, they will now be forced to plan for retirement by setting aside an ever-greater part of their paycheques as opposed to relying on the perceived level of their future net worth, which had become the norm over the past two decades as inflated asset values, first in equities and then in residential real estate, triggered unrealistic expectations of the intrinsic value and capital gains potential of their asset base — an asset base concentrated in inherently unproductive items such as the house.

The missing piece in most analysis regarding the efficacy of government policy in terms of rejuvenating a new cycle of borrowing and spending is the extent of trauma that has taken place on the household balance sheet since the housing bubble popped in 2006 and the equity bull market reversed course in 2007. We estimate that the cumulative loss of household net worth, even with the recovery in recent years. is $4.7 trillion. In other words, a 7% hole has been driven into the household balance sheet over a five year span, which has not happened since the 1930s. Household wealth is no higher today than it was in 2006, and this realization is really only now setting in.

The process of a secular rise in the U.S. personal savings rate and the dampening effect this will have on aggregate demand will be incredibly disinflationary for some time. While fiscal stimulus indeed cushioned the blow, the current reality is one of restraint, at a time when the output gap is closer to 6% — where it normally is in periods of deep recessions, not year-four of an expansion.

From a top-down perspective, what drives inflation is the shape and interaction of two different curves — the economy's aggregate supply curve and the aggregate demand curve. The movements in these curves tell us where the "output gap" is at any moment in time—the "gap" between where the economy is actually operating and the level it would be operating at if it were running flat out at full employment. In other words, the "gap" measures the degree of slack in the labour and product markets, and this "gap" at 6% currently augurs for 'fair-value' or 'equilibrium' policy rates to be -2.4% according to our research, which is why at the zero bound. the Fed has been and will continue to focus on non-conventional measures aimed at lowering the cost of capital.

 

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Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:05 | 3013060 vinayjha
vinayjha's picture

WSJ reported 247 million thru NRF survey. that was the biggest BS with  US population of 311 million 80% were shopping.

http://www.freefdawatchlist.com/2012/11/upcoming-fda-approval-in-decembe...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:09 | 3013073 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

everyone STFU and eat your turkey leftovers!

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:16 | 3013093 tsx500
tsx500's picture

'we remain in the throes of disinflation...'

the price i paid today  for a gallon of milk didn't exactly seem like disinflation to me !

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:17 | 3013097 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

I like to give my own posts an 'up arrow', you know, to get 'em off on a good start

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:50 | 3013172 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Egypt's Morsi grabbing power. Obama didn't do that.

 

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:47 | 3013295 tbone654
tbone654's picture

Obama's fools and Stalin's fools share the same drink of illusion.   Vlad Putin a true conservative

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:58 | 3013316 praxis
praxis's picture

I read that in Pravda. 

Amazing the mouthpiece of the former Soviet Union now calling out Obama for being a Commie!

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:09 | 3013335 tbone654
tbone654's picture

Well, any normal individual understands that as true but liberalism is a psychosis . O'bomber even keeps the war going along the Mexican border with projects like "fast and furious" and there is still no sign of ending it.  He is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia.  Obama's fools and Stalin's fools share the same drink of illusion.

Reading Putin's speech without knowing the author, one would think it was written by Reagan or another conservative in America. The speech promotes smaller government and less taxes. It comes as no surprise to those who know Putin as a conservative. Vladimir Putin went on to say:

"...we are reducing taxes on production, investing money in the economy. We are optimizing state expenses.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:16 | 3013345 tbone654
tbone654's picture

"The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness."

"Psychopathology of the Liberal Mind: The adult drive toward omnipotent control of others, in any arena whatever, is rooted in fears of separation, abandonment loss or abuse--the residual effects of early attachment gone wrong. The need to dominate others arises from the tyrant's need for absolute assurance that the catastrophic loss of dependency or the pain of abuse so devastating to him in his earliest years will not be repeated."

"Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave."

Socialism, Communism, Marxist... all the same...  good people will look away with reasonable excuses...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:12 | 3013488 W74
W74's picture

Sounds like the average Boomer. 

My appologies to those you conservatives in your 50s-early 60s, but your generation had by far the most potential (being children of the greatest generation) of any generation this country saw, and y'all still chose to squander it by being unhappy, spendthrift little babies.

And now look, ye Boomers, at what you have wrought: your children live at home with worthless liberal college degrees who've never worked a day in their lives, living in homes which by and large are still not paid off.  Boy did the banks make a pretty penny off of you. 

Look what you Boomers have done to my generation: you hopped us up on adderoll and ritalin to control what were quite normal childhoods, and coddled us so that we would build "self-esteem" over work-ethic.  Well ask one of your children who still lives at home how their self-esteem is.  It probably very low, and it has everything to do with their work-ethic not being very high.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:35 | 3013530 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

W74

please complain to your own parents. I have issues with my kids, I'll bet once  you have a few  you will understand. I nor anyone on this board is responsible for the actions of others, neither those in our cohort nor offspring. The idea of blaming an entire generation is a bit desperate.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 10:59 | 3014183 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Complain all you like, but it was liberals during their "rebellious" phase who created the good'ol USA.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:06 | 3013332 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

Funny. No one seemed to complain when Mubarak grabbed power....

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 02:04 | 3013628 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

indeed.  while the republicans never seemed to think giving bush the power to wiretap without warrant, imprison without charge or torture without appeal might bite them when a democrat wielded those powers, apparently when execute without trial was added it caused some symmetric doubts in the current administration:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/obama-drones-kill-li...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:48 | 3013167 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

I paid 3.60 for a gallon of milk last weekend.  Gas was $3.53

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:56 | 3013183 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

I buy organic milk. It's more like $8.00.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:01 | 3013199 akak
akak's picture

Inorganic milk is MUCH cheaper, but all the chunks of silica and feldspar are admittedly rather hard to swallow.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:24 | 3013246 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

First off what the F is Organic milk -- seriously with the USDA watering down of regs and a deluge of ChinaMex shit on the market, the only thing organic might be Farmer Browns glad tidings.  Secondly from Pubix to Piggly Wiggly you can buy the shit for 4 bucks or less on sale and that should tell you something.  

PS I have a great deal on Organic Salmon - ya they're farm raised swimming in near shore mercury saturated waters but they're fed authentic Organic Monsanto Fish Pellets.   Dutti for Organic Chicken  cage raised never set foot in the barnyard (actually never have been able to stand up) but like their Salmon friends they too are raised on Monsanto Organic Chicken Pellets.

 

just ask yourself this question

Can Roundup Ready Alfalfa Coexist with Organic and Conventional Alfalfa?

 

Monsanto answers it here http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/roundup-ready-alfalfa-supreme-co...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:08 | 3013337 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Ever wondered when do cows have milk?

They are being squeezed NOT during that time, so what HELPED them to make milk?

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:19 | 3013502 CPL
CPL's picture

You keep a hefer in rotation (knocked up) and she'll milk indefinately until she is too old, the major challenge is making sure they don't end up with teet rot and stay healthy.  Cows milking isn't a mystery.  To do that you buy a bull and stud him.   Then you measure herd size and determine if a good female calf now is worth keeping, auction or veal.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:21 | 3013506 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i drink raw goat/cow milk; probably $35 a gallon; if you can get it; only delivered twice a week; small batch. i don't drink so much, but my kid does.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:06 | 3013208 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i buy everything organic, bc i like to vote for real. but you'd be nuts to fuck with dairy at this stage of the game. and flesh. 

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:42 | 3013278 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

I'm Joe Dickson, Organic Certification Coordinator for Whole Foods Market. ... Organic products from China can absolutely be certified organic to the exact same...

www.wholefoodsmarket.com/whole-foods-market-responds-to-wjla

 

Dear Joe:

Are we to believe that the farm workers who are paid a fraction of what Chinese factory workers make even know what organic is? And for the Chinese entrepreneurs  who employ those farm workers,  we should have complete confidence that when you return to Austin they continue to tend their crops adhering to even the USDAs watered down Organic standards? Oh yes of course they do, I can imagine even as I write this how chinese worker 3884472 and his fellow slaves carefully tend to their corps watering them as it were with the morning dew and carefully enriching the soil with only natural compounds. 

I guess if you consider the piss and diarrhea of slave laborers to be organic then you are spot on, notwithstanding the additives sourced from the outflow of nearby chemical factories. 

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:43 | 3013423 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

yeah i stay away from chinese and generally mexican organics. and there's a huge scandal brewing re: whole foods and their mislabelling of GMO and other bs tactics. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 03:16 | 3013660 IllusionOfChoice
IllusionOfChoice's picture

It's sounding like people need to forget the labels and get out to their local farmer's market.

Mine has high quality bread and eggs for cheaper than you'd find at the supermarket, and past that the produce is amazing.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:11 | 3013218 ShorTed
ShorTed's picture

Jeez, for that pice you can get a reasonably decent 6 pack!

Stop supporting those over-subsidized farming leeches, organic or otherwise!

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:10 | 3013216 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

But what was the cost of printer ink?

The future will be a future where no one but treasury secretary can print. No one will be able to afford printing books they download. No web articles will be able to be printed. Not that it matters, once the cloud is the new internet protocol sites like ZH will simply be forgotten.

This was meant to be tongue in cheek, but its pretty fucking scary that one could probably debate that this random thought that vodka has struck me with could maybe be debated.

Or maybe I really am drunk.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:48 | 3013300 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

"retailers are stepping over themselves to lure in shoppers by opening earlier than ever and discounting like they never have before. Call it deflationary growth."

Call it anything you like...It's still all Bullshit!

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:27 | 3013383 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Where have you been. We have bi-flation. Everything you need goes up in price and anything you have goes down in value.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:17 | 3013087 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:52 | 3013177 HaroldWang
HaroldWang's picture

I noticed that same NRF survey and though how in the world did 80% of the population go shopping?? Did toddlers go? Did prisons open up and let them go? Did people in hospitals/nursing homes, etc. all go??

That number is impossible.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:47 | 3013290 seek
seek's picture

My guess is -- if they're trying to legitimately lie, ha ha -- they're double and triple-counting, e.g. adding all store visits by a single person up, rather than counting it as one shopper. Store visits can go up is a shopper visits more stores without buying anything, which is common when bargain hunting.

The reality is as things continue to get worse, more and more producers of research data products are incentivised to lie, since they depend on sales to the companies they cover for revenue and while bad news sells ok, real bad news does not.This is why the press releases are so selective about what's reported (volume v. revenue, on-quarter v. on-year, etc.)

My own business provides research (among other things) for a very narrow market segment, and while past history is pretty immune due to honestly reported financial results, I've definitely been lobbied to raise a forecast. The irony is that if I printed what I thought the real numbers would be, I'd lose half my clients. I've shared this view with a couple of fortune 500 clients of mine, and they agreed with both the reality being worse and that saying so has negative consequences. In the end I maintain two sets of numbers -- one depressing set, and one reality-based set -- the depressing set being the "happy" version. Clued clients know to call and ask for the bad news by phone.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:14 | 3013346 SIOP
SIOP's picture

That peaks volumes, thank you for posting that.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:50 | 3013305 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

SSHHHH.....or Maria and Pisani will have to put their pom poms away.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:15 | 3013090 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Retail spending is up 12% over last year.

The higher that number, the more Rosenberg would bitch and complain.

Right...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:48 | 3013433 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Credit card use is up, as well as delinquent payments.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/11/19/credit-card-debt...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:19 | 3013100 max2205
max2205's picture

Stfu... After 4 years of bullshit, if you can't beat 'em, go long and join'em

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:28 | 3013119 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"Stfu... After 4 years of bullshit, if you can't beat 'em, go long and join'em"

Bwhahahahaha

BWAHAHAHAHA

4 years of bullshit? Where was the the S&P in 1999 slappy? higher or lower than where it is today? Try 12 years and counting of going nowhere and losing your ass twice in between. Anyway good luck to you. Get in there and join em.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:20 | 3013361 kito
kito's picture

It's about being realistic and understanding that in our role as market economists, it is necessary to provide our clients with information and analysis that will help them to navigate the portfolio through these stressful times................

hey fonz, rosie uses "realistic" and "market economists" in the same sentence.........bwahahahahaha..........

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:27 | 3013388 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

my train went off the tracks tonight Kito.Ben inkjet recommends cash. Wally Goldman recommends precious metals and Joey Stockbondman adheres to a balances approach of equities and fixed income.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:40 | 3013416 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Cash, yea. I am self employed with employees and we are competing with wages that I personally earned 25 years ago, and in a few words this sucks.

***

 I am so glad gasoline has droped to $.75/gal, a nice dinner at a mexican restaurant is only $10 and supplies have dropped at least 50%.      Yea baby, GANGNAM style....

Not to be risque, but doesn't  Congress & Senate get a COL raise + benefits raise? Just curious.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:42 | 3013147 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

go for it-dumb $ always gets in at the top

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:22 | 3013108 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     We remain in the throes of a secular era of disinflation.

Everything'll turn out just fine as long as we never call worry about "deflation."

Just to name the disease is to suffer from it...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:44 | 3013149 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think the correct term is biflation

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:11 | 3013340 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

Actually, it's antidisestablishmentarianflation .

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 06:48 | 3013732 DavidC
DavidC's picture

blunderdog,
My thoughts exactly.

The two 'd' words - we must avoid, at all costs, uttering them. (/SARC)

DavidC

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:23 | 3013110 TheFulishBastid
TheFulishBastid's picture

a sub of JPMergan Chase

Thank you Tyler, I now have a new screen name to use. Awesome sauce!

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:26 | 3013116 akak
akak's picture

 

From a top-down perspective, what drives inflation is the shape and interaction of two different curves — the economy's aggregate supply curve and the aggregate demand curve.

Forgive me, but isn't this "analysis" just rehashed Keynesianism 101?

Uh, I think that Rosie is neglecting the supply of money here, the manner in which that money supply is (dishonestly) continually increased, and the degree to which falling confidence in the monetary issuing authority can translate into higher monetary velocity as well as into malinvestments and "malspending" which would not take place absent the profligacy of said monetary issuing authority.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:36 | 3013136 EARLPEARL
EARLPEARL's picture

my 2 best friends and i watched tv all day friday and drank beer...we did have to go buy beer, did we shop or not?

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:50 | 3013153 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

In a world in which supreme absurdity is an everyday occurrence, who knows, or cares, any more.

What comes after apathy in this sequence again?

...dependency; and after dependency...

It's such a fascinating sociological phenomena that this cycle repeats with such precision over the course of time.

  • From bondage to spiritual faith;
  • From spiritual faith to great courage;
  • From courage to liberty;
  • From liberty to abundance;
  • From abundance to complacency;
  • From complacency to apathy;
  • From apathy to dependence;
  • From dependence back into bondage.
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:45 | 3013155 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Defensive position meaning? Buy as many USDA zero down houses as possible and then rent or flip them. If you don't make a profit....walk away and dump the losses on the FHA (aka, Taxpayers).

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:44 | 3013291 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Agree, get them to appraise it at more value and take that money out as well.  If it doesn't work then dump the junk on the FHA.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:50 | 3013173 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

Black Friday should be the day all good-looking whte/latin/oriental chicks try some black schlong. Eh bros?

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:19 | 3013236 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Yeah, on the boat ride back to the jungle... One way.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:05 | 3013211 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

there are NO pensions !

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:14 | 3013224 Kali
Kali's picture

 

Anybody see the Rob Kirby post on Silver Doctors? Claiming Austria rec'd repatriated gold that was tungsten salted bars from Douche Bank. Says is traceable back to US, bars showing up in Asia. Woooooo-weeeee if true!

http://www.silverdoctors.com/source-deutsche-bank-fulfilled-recent-gold-repatriation-request-with-tungsten-salted-gold/

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:43 | 3013539 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Who stole our real gold???

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:23 | 3013244 Chappy
Chappy's picture

It says 'store visits' not shoppers.  If one person visits 10 stores then only 24M people went out.  10% would make sense.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:46 | 3013296 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Remember when website businesses used to talk about "hits"?

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:50 | 3013440 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

I filled my car up with gas and went grocery shopping - 2 Black Friday store visits from me.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:25 | 3013249 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Being broke has never stopped amurkins from shopping before. i have been hearing/reading about the impending collapse in usa consumer demand for the past four decades and it never happens.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:48 | 3013301 beatus12
beatus12's picture

Kevin O'Leary was bragging how he got a

50 inch tv for 175 USD. Stats Canada

just put out a chart of wage stagnation -

3.00 increase since 1981. God help you

young people, and good riddance to rubbish Carney.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:52 | 3013308 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Between King World News, Zerohedge and Yahoo Finace msg boards Im convinced the world is ending.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:24 | 3013368 Incubus
Incubus's picture

It is; it's just happening too slowly for your media-fed brain to remain interested.

 

Go on and live it up a little.  Fools'll enjoy their trip over the edge and wonder what the fuck happened when they're freefall swan-diving towards hell.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:27 | 3013385 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The world has always been on the verge of destruction.  It's ALWAYS been a 50/50 proposition. 

The more things change...

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:26 | 3013381 Icantstopthinki...
IcantstopthinkingaboutNINJAs's picture

I got your market economy, right here...:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/dimon-would-be-best-treasury-se...

 

Dimon Would Be Best to Lead Treasury in Crisis, Buffett Says"

 

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:05 | 3013477 Kali
Kali's picture

Please, someone shoot them both now.  I am sick of hearing about those two turds.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:44 | 3013544 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Dimon can't be named treasury sec without first working at Goldman. Everyone knows that.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:11 | 3013487 media_man
media_man's picture

Always good to read these posts. They offer alot of good feedback on the articles.

My 401k $ is in a mix of PIMCO / Vanguard Retirement Fund (80/20 bond stock mix) / & Stable Value Fund. So it's mostly all in bonds. It's gotten a return of @ 8% over the past year, not much worse the DJIA. How is this? I thought I'd be lucky to get 3%. PIMCO is up nearly 10%.

It's not entirely clear to me what other options a worker drone like me has. If I quit & cash the money I'll probably take a 25% pay cut, at the very least. Not many jobs for 50 something middle managers out there.

On the other hand, between the US Treasury confiscating the whole magilla or vaporizing same through monetization, quitting seems a viable option. Pay the 40% tax / penalty & move to a US retirement villa in Manila. If I get sick, pay cash & take my chances with the local docs.

I get a very bad vibe Obama & the Democrats really want to crash the economy in the worst possible way to re-invent it to the Swedish model but will end up more like Zimbabwe.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 01:12 | 3013572 flawedmind
flawedmind's picture

had the same problem... ended up quitting my employer to move the money (be weary of the "Stable Value Fund" - mine was 80% "synthetic investment vehicles" as in, faux program valued smut).  I actually got the 2007/08 call correct and moved all to cash (which isn't an option for most 401Krap plans...), quit, moved it to a self-directed IRA, bought some PMs, cash the rest.  Best part is, I returned to the same employer after 353 days and damn near doubled my income to bone up on more cash whilst I line up the pieces for the exit strategy.  Myself and a few others are aiming at Chile. 

From the self directed IRA, one could potentially maybe possibly take the wad, cash it, defer taxes to the next tax session, and say "F.U. Bill me bitchez" via postcard.  Point is, it's good to have options and it sounds like you're in a familiar place.  Just sayin'.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 01:18 | 3013579 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If ya like yer job, you can probably get a pretty appealing loan against that other bunch of paper you're so impressed with.  Just in case you wanted to take a piece of your "current" holdings and switch to something else for cheap without considering the future.

But what about the fiscal cliff?  Aren't capital gains taxes supposed to blow up come January 'cause of them evil Democrats and Obama trying to fuck everyone's life?

It's all so complicated.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 01:09 | 3013561 seek
seek's picture

Wow: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/26/intrade-...

No one is safe it seems -- Intrade is having to shut down US operations to avoid onlime gambling laws apparently.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 02:56 | 3013646 vnguru
vnguru's picture

well! 4 years of bullshit? Where was the the S&P in 1999 slappy? higher or lower than where it is today? Try 12 years and counting of going nowhere and losing your ass twice in between. The irony is that if I printed what I thought the real numbers would be, I'd lose half my clients. I've shared this view with a couple of fortune 500 clients of mine, and they agreed with both the reality being worse and that saying so has negative consequences. Anyway good luck to you. Get in there and join em.
http://www.proweb365.com/services

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 03:14 | 3013657 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I read the posts now I don't know what the article was about.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 03:51 | 3013666 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

The market wants to do a complete reversal...watch for it.  Complacency is rampant.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 09:28 | 3013858 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

which had become the norm over the past two decades as inflated asset values, first in equities and then in residential real estate, triggered unrealistic expectations of the intrinsic value and capital gains potential of their asset base — an asset base concentrated in inherently unproductive items such as the house.

And one day Tom woke up to discover the shocking truth of his situation. His house, being a real structure and not a piece of paper, was actually depreciating and not appreciating in value. The structure needed constant maintenance. The top end appliances and utilities were wearing out a little more every time he used them. The décor and style of his kitchens and bathrooms would become dated and undesirable to buyers every ten to fifteen years. And since he just traded up from a comfortable 2500 sf home to a 6500 sf McMansion,  this was also happening to the four bathrooms, four bedrooms, indoor gym, wine cellar, safe room, and media room, which he never even used. The horror, the horror.

 


Now watch what happens when B of A wakes up tomorrow and realizes Tom's house is depreciating faster than he is paying down the principle on his mortgage.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 10:55 | 3014169 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

One needs to bear in mind that the rental value of the home space that owners secure by living in them is the most significant part of the home ownership financial equation. Also, the home is a hedge against inflation long term and the loan will be paid with dollars that are worth less than the dollars received at the time of borrowing, with interest paid being reduced due to the tax deduction.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 10:48 | 3014142 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

Is there any place for critical thinking in these commentaries? 300 million store visits only equals the entire population if each person is presumed to visit one store and go home. Isn't it more likely that these frenzied deal-chasers are more likely to visit 5 or more stores on black friday?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 11:32 | 3014270 marginnayan
marginnayan's picture

 

Meanwhile, the spending culture is alive and well in America, nonetheless, with ShopperTrak data showing 300 million store visits on Black Friday alone. That's almost the entire population — didn't anyone make it to work on Friday?”
LOL.

 

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