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Guest Post: We're Heading For Economic Dictatorship

Tyler Durden's picture


Authored by Janet Daley via the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada (originally posted on The Telegraph),

Forget about that dead parrot of a question – should we join the eurozone? The eurozone has officially joined us in a newly emerging international organisation: we are all now members of the Permanent No-growth Club. And the United States has just re-elected a president who seems determined to sign up too. No government in what used to be called “the free world” seems prepared to take the steps that can stop this inexorable decline. They are all busily telling their electorates that austerity is for other people (France), or that the piddling attempts they have made at it will solve the problem (Britain), or that taxing “the rich” will make it unnecessary for government to cut back its own spending (America).

So here we all are. Like us, the member nations of the European single currency have embarked on their very own double (or is it triple?) dip recession. This is the future: the long, meandering “zig-zag” recovery to which the politicians and heads of central banks allude is just a euphemism for the end of economic life as we have known it.

Now there are some people for whom this will not sound like bad news. Many on the Left will finally have got the economy of their dreams – or, rather, the one they have always believed in. At last, we will be living with that fixed, unchanging pie which must be divided up “fairly” if social justice is to be achieved. Instead of a dynamic, growing pot of wealth and ever-increasing resources, which can enable larger and larger proportions of the population to become prosperous without taking anything away from any other group, there will indeed be an absolute limit on the amount of capital circulating within the society.

The only decisions to be made will involve how that given, unalterable sum is to be shared out – and those judgments will, of course, have to be made by the state since there will be no dynamic economic force outside of government to enter the equation. Wealth distribution will be the principal – virtually the only – significant function of political life. Is this Left-wing heaven?

Well, not quite. The total absence of economic growth would mean that the limitations on that distribution would be so severe as to require draconian legal enforcement: rationing, limits on the amount of currency that can be taken abroad, import restrictions and the kinds of penalties for economic crimes (undercutting, or “black market” selling practices) which have been unknown in the West since the end of the Second World War.

In this dystopian future there would have to be permanent austerity programmes. This would not only mean cutting government spending, which is what “austerity” means now, but the real kind: genuine falls in the standard of living of most working people, caused not just by frozen wages and the collapse in the value of savings (due to repeated bouts of money-printing), but also by the shortages of goods that will result from lack of investment and business expansion, not to mention the absence of cheaper goods from abroad due to import controls.

And it is not just day-to-day life that would be affected by the absence of growth in the economy. In the longer term, we can say good-bye to the technological innovations which have been spurred by competitive entrepreneurial activity, the medical advances funded by investment which an expanding economy can afford, and most poignantly perhaps, the social mobility that is made possible by increasing the reach of prosperity so that it includes ever-growing numbers of people. In short, almost everything we have come to understand as progress. Farewell to all that. But this is not the end of it. When the economy of a country is dead, and its political life is consumed by artificial mechanisms of forced distribution, its wealth does not remain static: it actually contracts and diminishes in value. If capital cannot grow – if there is no possibility of it growing – it becomes worthless in international exchange. This is what happened to the currencies of the Eastern bloc: they became phoney constructs with no value outside their own closed, recycled system.

When Germany was reunified, the Western half, in an act of almost superhuman political goodwill, arbitrarily declared the currency of the Eastern half to be equal in value to that of its own hugely successful one. The exercise nearly bankrupted the country, so great was the disparity between the vital, expanding Deutschemark and the risibly meaningless Ostmark which, like the Soviet ruble, had no economic legitimacy in the outside world.

At least then, there was a thriving West that could rescue the peoples of the East from the endless poverty of economies that were forbidden to grow by ideological edict. It remains to be seen what the consequences will be of the whole of the West, America included, falling into the economic black hole of permanent no-growth. Presumably, it will eventually have to move towards precisely the social and political structures that the East employed. As the fixed pot of national wealth loses ever more value, and resources shrink, the measures to enforce “fair” distribution must become more totalitarian: there will have to be confiscatory taxation on assets and property, collectivisation of the production of goods, and directed labour.

Democratic socialism with its “soft redistribution” and exponential growth of government spending will have paved the way for the hard redistribution of diminished resources under economic dictatorship. You think this sounds fanciful? It is just the logical conclusion of what will seem like enlightened social policy in a zero-growth society where hardship will need to be minimised by rigorously enforced equality. Then what? The rioting we see now in Italy and Greece – countries that had to have their democratic governments surgically removed in order to impose the uniform levels of poverty that are made necessary by dead economies – will spread throughout the West, and have to be contained by hard-fisted governments with or without democratic mandates. Political parties of all complexions talk of “balanced solutions”, which they think will sound more politically palatable than drastic cuts in public spending: tax rises on “the better-off” (the only people in a position to create real wealth) are put on the moral scale alongside “welfare cuts” on the unproductive.

This is not even a recipe for standing still: tax rises prevent growth and job creation, as well as reducing tax revenue. It is a formula for permanent decline in the private sector and endless austerity in the public one. But reduced government spending accompanied by tax cuts (particularly on employment – what the Americans call “payroll taxes”) could stimulate the growth of new wealth and begin a recovery. Most politicians on the Right understand this. They have about five minutes left to make the argument for it.


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Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:28 | 3016245 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture


we are fucking there and have been for years

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:31 | 3016252 flacon
flacon's picture

> endless poverty of economies that were forbidden to grow by ideological edict.


That's a great way to phrase it. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:49 | 3016286 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

We all take for granted the heavy hand of our government employees. This is what we do about it, by teaching those public employees to know their role;

We should have required "Presumption of Freedom, Presumption of Innocence of American Citizens Sensitivity Training", administered through human resource departments of all government agencies.

These classes will include the citing of law that backs up and reinforces the training topics covered in the lessons.

I'll have more on this subject as I develop my new realm of education for government employees.

I'm starting this New Entrepreneurial business today and invite you to participate and join me in this endeavor.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:53 | 3016298 docj
docj's picture

by teaching those public employees to know their role

They know their role. Perfectly well, in fact. Anyone who believes they are going to "teach" public employees anything has never had the misfortune to sit across the bargaining table from their union representatives.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:28 | 3016378 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

We can pass a law requiring public employee role teaching. Everyone who works for a fortune 500 company has to sit through the social engineering sensitivity training lessons. Lots of companies specialize in this field. They can add another course study to their specialties for public employees, especially for those who work in law enforcement. There's money to be made in this business.

Preventing Harassment and Discrimination, Connecting With Respect
Developed as a practical and easy-to-implement workshop for organizations ready for a different kind of “diversity” training, Connecting with Respect represents the newest and most original approach to cultural excellence in decades.

Respectful Workplace





Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:44 | 3016517 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The best public sector employment policy would be that no government, federal, state, or local employees, with a few exceptions, cops, firefighters, be hired under the age of 50.

Problem solved.


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:49 | 3016525 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Not that I completely disagree with you (mostly, but probably not completely), but would you please explain how your income as a government contractor should be exempt from your rules?  Or do you see a difference between working directly for the government versus being paid by the government through the "private sector?"  If so, what is the fucking difference when it comes to your point?

DISCLAIMER:  unlike you (a government contractor who constantly bitches about government handouts), I own my own private business and do not receive government handouts.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:12 | 3016556 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

There is a difference.  Charter school employees come to mind.

Only people who are employed by governments through subcontractors that have direct contact physically with the public that employ them, will be required to have public interaction sensitivity training. If they have a problem with it, those private companies are perfectly free to conduct their business exclusively in the private sector as they see fit.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:16 | 3016562 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Interesting concept -- companies that feed from the government trough can choose to be free under our current system, but instead, they choose to bitch and moan and complain that the hand that feeds them has too many rules.   So they take from one hand and slap the other while claiming to be libertarians.  Now I get it.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:32 | 3016570 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I think your thinking about public school union employees. They need a serious attitude adjustment.

The auto dealer and employees that service government owned equipment will not be required to have training. That sort of thing. I'm pretty frugal about what my property and income tax dollars are being spent on. The type of training courses can be tailored to each occupation. It's not rocket science, and it's money well spent, knowing I have respectful employees working for me. I would love to have zero government and not have to think about this sort of thing, but that's never going to happen.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:34 | 3016577 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your zero government system would have zero roads (or perhaps a few roads where the few could travel).  Federal express -- a private company -- made a fortune transporting packages via government funded airports.   Fucking Marxists.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:45 | 3016583 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Exactly. So the government employees we have, to do what we need them to do, should be managed well, according to certain standards.

Look what happens when a Sheriff preforms his duties well;

Nation's New Top Cop!

Plenty of love and admiration available.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:15 | 3016651 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Enjoy the Banking-Financial-WallStreet-DefenseContractor/MilitarySupplier-GovernmentEmployeeUnion mind and body rape & pillage sponsored by CronyKomradeKapitalism, bitchez!

The Nouveau Plutocracy/Robber Barons are back in the saddle, strong hand pimpin'.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:56 | 3017125 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Have you allowed your employees to unionize yet?  Fed-ex as well as their employees paid for the roads and airports.  Of course no one built it, just barack the magnificent.   One more time for the LTER's out there " Government Funded" = money from taxpayers and productive businesses

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:28 | 3017245 Seer
Seer's picture

Just fucking get rid of GOVT and let's settle all this pussy talk, OK?  Just fucking man-up.

The "I just want SMALL govt" whining is ALL fucking shit.  This scenario doesn't exist, and won't exist (other than as it turns down on its way to extinction)*.  I'll just shake my head when I see all you types wondering why the fuck all the fantasies that you thought would appear when BIG govt out of the way, don't.

* Unless, that is, you hire and fund your own army.  And in such an environment there's going to likely be very few who can afford to buy your products/services such that you can provide that funding of a personal army.  Yeah, I'd love to have my own army as well, but I'm facing things more realistically, it will be "I" who will be responsible for protecting the land and assets that I call "mine."  Hang on to it if you can...

When one stops seeing things through the prism of "us and them" and starts seeing it through the prism of energy and material flows it becomes clearer, the clarity being that it's not a given "side" as much as it's the System.  And good luck overthrowing the System: I ain't going to waste energy on it, as I know it's on the way out (and with it a deep spiral that won't be delivering all the "protection of property rights" that Small govt folks desire).  Cheap talk by cheap people.  The price will be paid, whether it's to govt or something else, but it'll be paid (energy costs).

BTW - Fed Ex wasn't around when the Interstate was funded and built.  If you want to talk paying for maintenance of said, then yes, I'd agree.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:54 | 3017112 Seer
Seer's picture

"I think your thinking about public school union employees. They need a serious attitude adjustment."

They don't like muppets too?

For the love of... this is all meaningless mental masturbation.  It's ALL going to crash because we cannot create growth out of thin air (w/o ample, exploitable PHYSICAL resources).  Yeah, it's CERTAIN that "public school union employees" (we know that every single one of them thinks the rest of us are nothing but muppets) will go extinct.  And before folks take this to mean we can celebrate I'll caution that when this time comes it'll really only be because the very System (of perpetual growth on a finite planet) is collapsing- as such anyone who can claim that a specific business model (or their own model) will function despite the chaos of any "transformation" is, well, delusional: just stop and closely inspect your supply chain; then turn around and see what supply chains your customers depend upon in which to earn the revenues to purchase YOUR goods/services.

Ideals are all warm and friendly, until they're tested by the real world.

"I would love to have zero government and not have to think about this sort of thing, but that's never going to happen."

No, you DON'T know that it could not happen!  I suspect that you don't WANT it to happen.  Reason?  It's a crapshoot, one could just as easily argue the other point (and do so quite effectively given that the majority of human history has been devoid of what we refer to as a "government").  I would say that the odds are GREATER that govts become extinct, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt and split it at 50/50.  If you lose on the coin flip how will you be positioned?  Of course, it's really a matter of TIME, will this happen sooner or later?

My brother believes that things are going to go to shit, except, not any time soon, not during his time of "retirement" (he's got lots of holes to golf to play!).

No, I don't believe that you'd love to have zero government, not unless you have a business plan cooked up (complete with marketing strategy) that covers what this would/could entail/mean.

Too many people spout off shit to sound good, but when the rubber hits the road they're going to totally freak.

"I'm pretty frugal about what my property and income tax dollars are being spent on."

You have little control!  You might have a frugal outlook, but the ONLY way to be frugal is to reduce your exposure.  OK, an example, I have Ag land, in my case, and I'm sure that it's common, Ag land is taxed at a lower rate than most other land: I'm don't really feel as though I'm getting away with anything as I'm in the process of fulfilling this status by actually using the land to produce food (and food is one of our Fundamentals, so... I'll use this to push things in the direction that I believe things need to go- that tax break comes at a price of a lot of my own sweat [up-front, non-paying work]).  And, you can't really affect what your income tax dollars are spent on as much as you can reduce what is collected: your choice, if you want more revenues then you're going to have to shell out for the privileged, not my rules, it's the pact of ALL govts, it's the deal that you make to get your "protection" (legal and military).

Again, I'm ZERO GOVT.  Nature has no examples other than man of such structures: various social arrangements DO exist, but I don't know of any that give the appearance of any representative or direct (democratic) govt- if anyone knows of any I'd find it fascinating to learn of it.  As soon as you go into ANYTHING above ZERO you're going to have a govt that can haul you off and kill you: because you HAVE to sanction it to do this to punish OTHERS who are violating the pacts.

And, I'm not here to tell people what they should or shouldn't have.  I base my reasoning on logic and the observance of nature and human history.  What I "want" is immaterial.  What I "need" is what everyone else needs.  I don't believe humans "need" governments.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:44 | 3016520 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

While everyone has their eyes on 1984, what's coming is the following:

1) Animal Farm

2) A Clockwork Orange

Machines are making us emotion-less, as if an emoticon could ever replace a smile.

But the world is now Like-hungry.

Like-whores even, stripping, shedding every last vestiage of common decency/decorum/shame for a like.

Pertinent? Sure it's pertinent. Because in a Jewish/Communist system (anyone who doubts that connect should go live on a Kibbutz, the heart of Judaism and Communism beat as one), you are not allowed self-hood. Dissenters will be ruth-lessly dealt with.

Common Cause. Common Cause. Common Good. Common this and common that. 

Common is ordinary. Yes, the common man is meant (ment) to settle for the ordinary while the pigs snuffle at the trough.

The EU was the next logical step after the Soviet experiment succeeded (while masterfully made to look like a failure).

When the WALL came down, it was not liberty that crept east, it was communism/collectivism that came west.

Another master-ful twist. 

Left is right, war is peace, Common is great and the un-common is a danger to us all.

Fall (what a word) in line. 

On your Knees, Bees. Or the Drone will buzz you. 

A her-Ma-Aphrodite future, with rainbow revolutions and trans-human lovers with artificial inflations of every manner. 

The dystopia is already here. It's not fast approaching. It's here. If you take a pill, every day, to stay alive, you're trans-human. A Pharma-human.

A Farm-a-human.

And modern day seers are dissed with diss-dain. 

While most of humanty circles the drain.

Je' Sus is Latin for Gaia/Earth Pig. Go on, I dare you to google it. Je Sus, Je Sus say the Masses. 

Massive Masses, with Galactic asses...

As gen y would say...




Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:09 | 3016643 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

I am thinking that you just might be a genius.


What are your thoughts on The Israeli General's Son  

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:16 | 3016717 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Tommy, thanks for sharing that incredible video. A balanced (I know he says not, but I have not seen a more balanced presentation yet), from a deep insider... encourage everyone to give it a look, regardless of how you feel about the issue.


For soem more perspective:

On Brainwashing...
On holocaust truth:
Another one:
Recommend friends from Germany not to play the David Irving or Ernst Zundel videos, they might get you put in jail for being a holocaust denier. Strange times indeed.
PS: Don't know about genius Tommy (thanks though), but as someone who grew up lapping up all those big books by Leon Uris and later Saul Bellow, feeling for the False Jewish narrative for decades, I'm brave enough to have dug for truth, letting my implanted, programmed belief system crumble and not hesitating to state it as I now know/see it. 


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 11:06 | 3017375 Jreb
Jreb's picture

O - you might enjoy these if you haven't read them yet.

It's been over a decade since I cracked it open but it's message still rings clearly between my ears...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 11:24 | 3017422 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

thanks for this.

According to Rieben, "It's a great effort, it is a distinct departure from its Anglo-European roots, and it strives and struggles toward liberty. But the United States inherited domination that informs every aspect of its society and constitution. Not merely slavery and empire-building, but all the forms and fancies of domination government immemorial. The U.S. Constitution makes no real break with domination. It's just a variation of the old autocratic power structure. Moreover, as history has shown in many other countries, the Constitution of the United States doesn't work in other cultures. And with its mixed premises, it doesn't work very well even in the United States. Thomas Jefferson pointed out that the Constitution was not intended by its designers to be carved in stone for hundreds of years. And, harkening back to his Declaration of Independence, we should be ready to implement a new plan of government whenever it becomes evident that our present plan or design begins to work to our disadvantage.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:23 | 3016959 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

I googled Je sus.  Only one entry.  It's a christian music group in Ghana.  Think you know something ori?  Not much really.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:05 | 3017158 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

J is  a very young letter in the Alpha Bet Soup we call english. Less than 500 years old. It was the Ge sound prior. Je

  • GE (je,ge) GAEA;GAIA GAEA  (Jee),Noun.  [Gr.Gaia derived from "Ge", earth] in Greek mythology the earth personified as a goddess ,mother of Uranus the Titans,etc, MOTHER EARTH: identified by the Romans with Tellus: also Gala,Ge. GEO (jeo,jee)  [Gr. "geo" derived from gaia,ge, the earth] a combining form meaning earth,as in geo/centric, geo/phyte.  (WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY) {PROPER NAME} GEORGE Gr. georgos means "EARTH WORKER"  (DICTIONARY OF FIRST NAMES)
  • sus, sus N 3 1 NOM S C T, sus N 3 1 VOC S C T sus, suis swine; hog, pig, sow;  (Latin-English-Latin Java Dictionary with Whitaker's Wordlist) sus : swine, pig, hog.  (Lynn Nelson's Latin=English Dictionary (Hong Kong) sus, -is g.c. nomen animalis  (A Latin Dictionary of Saxo Grammaticus (medireview Latin) SWINE  [ME fr.OE swin; akin to OHG swin swine LATIN -SUS--more at SOW] 1: any of various stout-bodied short legged omnivorous mammals (family Suidae) with a thick bristly skin and long mobile snout; esp: a domesticated member of the species (Sus Scrofa) that includes the European wild boar-usu.used collectively 2: a contemptible person  (Webster's Seventh New Collegate Dictionary)

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:39 | 3017288 Seer
Seer's picture

I kind of always admired the Quakers, but I don't think I could be one...

It's a protection of the herd thing.  It basically works.  And most "customs" are means of trying to limit wasting energy that would be used in altering the existing: sure, some alterations are good, but often we just THINK they'll be good- the allure turns out to not really deliver, perhaps costing the entire herd.

At some point there comes the need for evolution to call out.  I suspect humans are approaching such a moment.  Sadly, as you note, when the time is apparent we'll be asking the machines how it should be done: do the machines want MORE humans (who would consume more resources that the machines would require)?

Those that require hogging out at the trough will find that their style doesn't work too well in lean times.  People that know how to deal with LESS will be able to better DEAL with LESS.  Yeah, some hogs escape (wild hogs), but nearly all hogs get butchered, and you can bet life is really good up until...  BTW - Based on what I hear from folks I'm not at all interested in shooting wild hogs for food.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:41 | 3016519 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Oh, please.  I suggest the old roman method of decimation.  

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:16 | 3016801 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Detroitication. The combination of deindustrialization, financializaton and dictatorial politicalization.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 12:20 | 3017610 prains
prains's picture

pointing only to govt policy as the problem and forgetting to mention they are controlled by the Olicorptocracy is not only short sighted but completely false. Also alluding to some fantastical infinite global resource base that govt policy doesn't let the world access is again totally false. This article is nothing but propoganda.


Instead of a dynamic, growing pot of wealth and ever-increasing resources, which can enable larger and larger proportions of the population to become prosperous without taking anything away from any other group, there will indeed be an absolute limit on the amount of capital circulating within the society. _ BULLSHIT von NUTSACK


These resources are completely controlled by the 0.1%, they will do with them what they please, politicians are their strawmen.


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:31 | 3016253 ACP
ACP's picture

Hey, know your place!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:28 | 3016379 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture have that right Zer0head. Hey, wait a second, if you do not have a head you are all brain.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:40 | 3016412 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress: the hate of men will pass and dictators die and the power they took from the people, will return to the people and so long as men die, liberty will never perish...

Soldiers - don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you - who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel, who drill you, diet you, treat you as cattle, as cannon fodder.

Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate - only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers - don't fight for slavery, fight for liberty.

Charlie Chaplin - The Great Dictator

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 11:46 | 3017479 Tursas
Tursas's picture

The instruction forward are simple:

Our voting process produces now only lemmings, sheeps and morons that obey only the gold carrying ghosts behind the curtains and not us who voted them in power.  If we cannot change our voting process and make it like the one in Switzerland, then our only real option is to pick from the proven and effective processes from the past - like the one invented in 1789, by Doctor Joseph-Ignace Guillotin!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:31 | 3016255 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Finite world.

Zero sum game.


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:42 | 3016277 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Got Mars?  Asteroids?  Antartica?  hell even Africa if you kick the natives out into running casinos in the bushes

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:41 | 3017294 Seer
Seer's picture

Um... got energy?  Go ahead, have fun removing energy from food production to blasting rockets into space (well, OK it happens to a degree now, but it's going to become increasingly harder to do so as this all marches forward(?))

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:12 | 3016470 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Humans could inhabit the earth for a million or billion more years if they weren't a walking disaster.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:42 | 3017298 Seer
Seer's picture

I suspect our genes will make it to the next ice age. After this point it's looking pretty dismal...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:37 | 3016265 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

case in point:



Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:45 | 3016283 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

vast-dom what's a qe? why are you so upset? What's going on? Where are my doritos?


 - almost everyone

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:49 | 3016288 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

my shorts are making me upset. my calcs have been subverted not by market forces, but by gov meddling. i am pissed off. and i don't eat junk food.


and MW disgusts me, yet i keep perusing that status quo shithole site, just to remind myself that this thing can't go on....i can stay solvent in the face of the fed, indef. so i vent in this here vomitorium. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:58 | 3016309 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't know what to tell you man. You seem way to smart to not know you were fighting meddling from the highest levels. Here is something else to chew on. You may end up getting it right after all. I know you and Doc Engali were debating S&P 600 vs S&P 400. But you gotta be kidding me if you think it will be a nice orderly decline towards that level. Either they keep printing till we hyperinflate or they pull the qe rug out and we get to those levels in an instant. But if it happens in an instant all bets are off. "Technical" glitches will be going off like fireworks and you would be lucky to get your money out. It would be the end of the market as we know it, and it already is the end of the market as we knew it.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:12 | 3016332 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i am now doing exactly the opposite of what my econ degree taught me. so i have total confidence that my positions and the narrative they derive from will work out and work out well. this isn't the first time i've been banged up, but in the end i hold steady and come out the better for it. it's just that especially from QE2 until now shit has gotten so twisted up...i will make even moar moar money on the glitches, or i will lose moar! it's a game planet.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:26 | 3016375 infinity8
infinity8's picture

"game planet" - ain't that the truth. i think my batteries are dead.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:32 | 3016387 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I feel your pain. I've lost a lot of money myself in this never ending QE cycle Bernanke has put us all on. Never in my wildest imaginations did I see this monetization project making the markets go higher. Yet it has. However, the positive effect of QE has run it's course and it's clear from this point forward it's all unsterilized QE.

This budget battle is going to wrangle the markets for a bit.

The best advice I can give is to maintain a negative bias on these f'ed up markets. But trade around them knowing the markets never go simply straight up or down.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:33 | 3016401 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How about the markets go up in nominal terms, but lose out to precious metals? That is not an option?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:47 | 3016426 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

What have precious metals done lately? Not much. Again the result of a central planned economy with a heavy foot on holding the price down don't you think?

What inflation number do you believe the one the government tells you or the one the grocer tells you.

To answer your question more directly I don't see the markets going up here. Part of my reasoning is I think Bernanke will have to admit failure or risk another credit rating downgrade of US debt. That could happen sooner than people think.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:58 | 3016449 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They have outperformed equities again. But granted they have taken a breather. The beautiful thing about PM's is they ultimately fall outside the control of our centrally planned economy. But it could be a long road ahead. I would go with the grocer by the way.

In a centrally planned economy you don't think the ratings agencies are not in the pockets of tptb? Maybe they do issue another downgrade. So what?

Bernanke may admit failure. I certainly don't see it. The market may sell off. But a trillion plus a year that is coming in unsterilized lsap could make this very dead market move higher. As long as they keep a lid on rates people will scram anywhere for yield. Rates may move up tomorrow, or 15 years from now. Who knows.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:22 | 3016475 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Unsteralized begins in earnest in January. The credit rating warnings are out there already and bare in mind many mutual funds depend on the AAA credit rating of the US. One rating agency (S&P) makes little difference to their agreements,but two or more changing the AAA does certainly. That will be a mess. Forced selling will hit the markets like a tidal wave. When this happens I don't know, but it will come to pass based on the path we are on imo.

Think about this for a second as well. If adding liquidity is all that it took to make an economy and market run better don't you think Japan would be kicking everyones ass.

The effect on the stock markets lately for any QE has been a big yawn. If we are going via Japan, which is certainly the plan thus far, then I would say take a look at how that market has performed over the last two decades. The answer is not very well.

If Bernanke continues to print. Hyper-inflation will result. At that point it's going to be a nightmare and rates will move up dramatically and immediately and the markets will sell off.

So the way I see it markets sell off in either scenario with the timing being the only difference. That's why I will continue  to maintain a negative bias on these markets. Now negative bias does not mean that you can't have times where being a bull makes sense and money.


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:29 | 3016493 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

fair enough with japan. the ratings agencies to me are such a sham i think they can be kept on a leash indefinitely. i think they are a total non event. the mutual funds can just change the rules to keep buying UST. 

But i hear u on japan. my thinking with the US is the equity markets can become the playground for whatever remains of the middle class and the upper class. If the equity markets fail the wealth effect is totally ruined and everything goes to shit. but like you say if they push qe too hard we die by hyperinflation. i don't know japan's demographics well enough to know if their citizenry is in better financial shape than the US despite having their equity markets gone to shit. they certainly have a much higher savings rate, no?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:16 | 3016652 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

But WHEN dammit!  WHEN is this all gonna happen? 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:15 | 3016683 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Michael Burry (and his very remorseful investors who bailed on his fund and strategy early) is uniquely qualified to tell us that you can be massively correct, yet massively early. His losses early on shook out ye those of little faith in his ultimately proven massively correct thesis.

It's better to be massively correct (on your thesis, which involves tough things that most don't know much about, like basic arithmetic), and just in time to the trade, but that's very, very difficult.

It's well enough to be massively correct, and approximately right on the timing, so long as you diligently map your staying power on the trade within reasonableness.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:14 | 3016650 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

A wise man once told me, when things get bad... really bad...  keep a loaded revolver next to your bad with enough bullets to dispatch your entire family then yourself.

You DON'T want to live through what is coming

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:11 | 3016856 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I think a lot of middle class america thinks societal collapse is going to be like some rally, or something.


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 12:17 | 3017591 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Maybe if you live in an urban center (think Detroit, not the Upper West Side) and/or have zero skills to add, it will it be that bad. But most everyone else will muddle through with some discomfort and dislocation.

By all means, eat some lead if that's your way out. That just makes it easier on the rest of us.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:12 | 3016645 Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

We now interrupt Dancing with Stars to bring you this news flash....



Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:38 | 3016270 I am a Man I am...
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:41 | 3016276 woggie
woggie's picture

the beast is on the gobble
and all that matters is we're all headed for it's belly

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:43 | 3016278 Karlus
Karlus's picture

War is coming. I wouldnt bet my money on the useless eater party, either. My money is on the guys who grow food and the guys with rifles.

Thats not any metroplex I know of....good luck Cali, Northeast and Teamsters. See you on the other side.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:12 | 3016857 Incubus
Incubus's picture

shotgun or rifle? 


I'm thinking rifle.  I need to keep away the freeloaders before they even get close.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:44 | 3016279 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



Just watch when the upper earners close their wallet. While property taxes go up, sales taxes will go down. Guess what happens in this scenario? Money leaves and is spent somewhere far away. When pushed over the rise in property taxes, house goes up for sale and all city revenues vanish. Budget short falls begin. CAFR budget hits local TV stations on government cutbacks and high crime stories.


I.e., If we cut back a fireman, the new response time could reach 35 minutes. Your house will be burned down before we reach you. I wouldn’t suggest to cut back our public staff, we’ll remember your vote.

Bill Hicks - Go Back to Bed America

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:17 | 3016350 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

What if you don't cut back a fireman, you just reduce his/her ridiculous benefits a tad?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:23 | 3016363 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

You're a mathematical genius. /sarc

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:25 | 3016373 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It was just a suggestion.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:01 | 3016546 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

a tad?????????????????????????????   

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:43 | 3016280 docj
docj's picture

It will continue... until it can't. Then it won't.

Not a particularly unique or penetrating observation, of course. But sometimes it's necessary to point-out the obvious.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:05 | 3016302 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture


What do you make of this document (Leaked ?) makes for interesting reading.......

Greece appears as a sort of vaacum flask for the banks most extreme experiments but I am sure Ireland and the rest are not too far behind this.

This document raises much deeper questions.

The objective seems to be a massive socio – economic change not unlike the cromwellian ranch experiment in Ireland & the later final hanoverian displacement in western scotland.

Namely to drive the peripheral area into a form of extreme energy surplus that can continue to feed the cold dead heart of the core even if it means massive losses of productivity.

The implications of this is profound.
With the final destruction of the nation state after the single European act of 1986 these areas have become rich areas of extraction for the financial capitals and the former nations that give them sucker.

The similarity with the formation of the early UK in the 1700s is striking , with favoured nation status granted to England (France & Germany today ?) and other minor areas such as Dublin & Edinburgh while the remaining areas feed these cities which must always remain in real goods deficit.

The plan is now finally becoming very easy to read.

These former countries no longer borrow from their own hinterland on any level - they transfer a ration to the central financial districts / centre of banking operations and then plead  for some gruel. This is nazi rule , banking rule - whatever you would like to call it. These bastards are very much back in business. Notice the language The government will, The government undertakes,  The government ?

Europe is in a dark place once again.



Although maybe they were always in business -  since the 1500s and 1600s the world did not experince growth , but merely a concentration of power as trade vessels feed the banks a surplus from elsewhere , be it the New worlds riches flowing into the bankers of the lowlands or London extracting riches from Ireland and Scotland before also moving onto the new World.

Until recently it was the oil of the middle east ......but it has been perhaps the same long event.


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:06 | 3016319 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

with zero growth indefinitely in the usa caused by the 1% "redistributing" the jobs offshore due to the marginal cost of labor per hour being $1.00- $2.00 in china for every analysis of comparative advantage  - will always results in - ship the plant out - lock stock and barrel - there will be chaos

people will not stand still and be "murdered by neglect" by the 1% - they will redistrbute the ill gotten gains from the 1% back in return for the jobs expropriated - it is inevitable

the end is near !

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:44 | 3016420 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

You, Sir, are another socialist.

Don't tell me: you're all upset about a)offshoring, b)"evil corporations" and c)"the rich", right?

But not about "your" government. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:10 | 3016558 sicadischit
sicadischit's picture

Actually PISSED off at both of them thank you fuk them both!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:58 | 3016705 taeonu
taeonu's picture

The offshoring corporate CEOs and the rich ARE our government.  

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:28 | 3016690 Seer
Seer's picture

I down-arrowed you not because, as others likely did in knee-jerk reaction to perceived attacks on the wealthy (which all such defenders are want to be, yet will never be), but because MOST of the offshore'd jobs ended up being AUTOMATED (yeah, go ahead and challenge me on this, I'll be happy to prove it [yeah, it's against MSM-speak, which should only prove that because it's opposite of it that it's likely to be more accurate]).

I will, however, defend the logic of the business folks.  They are responsible for maximizing profits.  And maximization of profits is what [is supposed to] also minimizes waste and inefficiencies.  The best players in a bad game can't be blamed individually- it's the fucking game!

Lastly, GROWTH _ONLY_ exists through the exploitation of PHYSICAL resources.  The labor re-shuffling, the relocation of factories to places that allow greater externalizations of business costs (read "less environmental regulations"), are only tweaks when compared to the costs of physical materials/inputs, whose costs are increasing primarily due to scarcity (finite planet etc.).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 02:05 | 3016582 TicoTiger
TicoTiger's picture

You make good points that intelligent people can understand. You don't need tea leaves to predict the future. 

As for the rest of our not so-enlightened population, for a long time I've been trying to get them to understand that the story about frogs, heat and water is not really about frogs or water.

Oh well, the day is getting late and I suppose there must be (at least) fifty ways to leave your lover. But where?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:03 | 3017154 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"the cromwellian ranch experiment in Ireland & the later final hanoverian displacement in western scotland."

Teach Americans history.  They need to understand what might be done.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:55 | 3016304 FoolsAdvice
FoolsAdvice's picture

“This report all but admits China’s currency is being manipulated, but stops short of saying so explicitly,” U.S. Senator Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, said in a statement. “The formal designation matters because there can be no penalties without it. It’s time for the Obama administration to rip off the Band-Aid, and force China to play by the same rules as all other countries.”

Is this the same guy who told Ben "Get to work"?


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:08 | 3016328 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Where is ckuckie's daily gas price press conference stating how the high price of gas is killing the middle class. Oh yea , it doesn't fit his current agenda !

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:56 | 3016307 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Soon as a side against the banksters appears those inside the DHS and various other agencies and military will gang up against them. They are not thinking things through.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:00 | 3016312 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Know Your Place

People Create Government

Government Governs People

People made Government, so by all reasonable Logic People Govern Government.

People> Govt and Banks

Thats your place, get it? got it? good... now go set the record straight, Creators are allways more powerful than their Creation.

God the Creator of All things, Created Man, if we dont start acting like good little children, he might come take our toys away.


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:36 | 3016694 Seer
Seer's picture

Well... perhaps "God" appears, though such has never been proven (based on the past the probability of it occurring in the future is very low), BUT... it's Mother Nature who is the caretaker of our "home" (earth), and Mother Nature has been pushing back for some time (technically, physics speaking, it's ALWAYS been the case- entropy).  Our demands for more and more out of the planet are being denied (many two-dimensional-thinking folks here, such as the writer of this piece, fail to acknowledge that there's only so much PHYSICAL non-renewable resources that can be pulled out of the hat, regardless of the virtual notion of "economics").

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:27 | 3016725 adventuretime
adventuretime's picture

Okay, so prove your theory.  Go tell the gov't to fuck off.  Then we can gather some empirical data on who controls whom. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:04 | 3016315 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

I'm going to say this again. This a takeover by the new world order/illuminati. The are not trying to fix anything. The are bleeding the people dry and leaving them to fend for themselves and collapsing the system. If you are awake it is easy to see. If you are asleep you can't see it. Cash out and get precious metals ASAP. God bless.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:26 | 3016494 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i am wide awake, but i cant believe they have given us this much time to get things in order.....maybe they are some really great guys afterall



Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:54 | 3016703 Seer
Seer's picture

I don't believe that this has been any different than at any other time.  It's the same game, with the same set of rules; the only difference being that modern communication has allowed us to see it better (because TPTB expose themselves using it in order to crank the control dial [which is to offset us knowing/seeing more- it's a circular function kind of thing]).  Exponential growth is making things appear more dramatic (though the rate of change is fairly steady) by way of time speeding up (hence the greater sense of urgency).

Again, TPTB do NOT want to change the game that has allowed them to hold the mantle.  Stirring up unrest isn't in their favor.  And, direct ownership also isn't in their best interest: if you follow history you'll see that direct colonization has been replaced with indirect, distanced-based control through corporatism and militarism (US style).

I hope that most people have a bit more of a plan than just "grab the gold," which, and let's be honest here, differs little in mindset/action than the very people that we're chastising*.  Gold or other precious metals isn't fairy dust, one cannot sprinkle it and make shit grow.  It's a STORE of "wealth," though only IF others are willing to recognize it as such: if you're on an island and are the only one with precious metals how willing are others on that island to exchange their goods and services for your precious metals?  Precious metals are a hedge.  Life can, and one day likely will, go on without them: it's the transition period in which they will provide the BIG advantages for hedging/leveraging (use them for obtaining tools/assets that'll allow, set the stage for, transitioning to the future).

* These people are the same minds that steered us here.  Their choices for what constitutes a future will likely resemble the same failing logic.  It is therefore "us" who, recognizing this fact, need to make the break and step into a sustainable future.

No Gods, No Masters.  One's powers are reduced when one elevates the power in/of others.  Power = Corruption.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:04 | 3016316 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

Good article.  As long as there is population growth there will be demand for goods and services but without entrepenuerism/capitalism there is no engine for risk and growth to create the industries of the future.  Heck, in the current environment, the internet may have never gotten off the ground. As Ron Paul has said several times, without free markets malinvestment occurs....preventing the engines of growth from ever starting.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:01 | 3016707 Seer
Seer's picture

Without an excess of PHYSICAL resources there can be NO growth! (and there is NO/ZERO way that an excess can stay an excess in the face of the exponential function that is growth, not on a FINITE planet)

It's the fucking elephant in the room and you all can't fucking see it!

I fucking get it about the economics equation.  Without PHYSICAL it's only VIRTUAL, it's only mental masturbation: I'd further state that articles like these are about a bunch of people yammering for a greater share w/o being willing to fight for it, literally (as happens in the real world, in/of nature).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:25 | 3016723 adventuretime
adventuretime's picture

Earth is finite.  So then we'll go get stuff from other celestial bodies. What's your point?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:36 | 3016820 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

Convoluted logic IMO.  Efficiency makes for better use of resources.  Whether it is crop rotation in agriculture, reforestation by lumber industry, cars that get better gas mileage, etc etc.  If fusion is perfected there will be no need for fossil fuels.  Efficiency and innovation is almost always born from a competitive marketplace.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:37 | 3017256 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

>>Without an excess of PHYSICAL resources there can be NO growth!<<

A subtle point of disagreement - PHYSICAL is just "stuff". What makes "stuff" interesting was the clever monkey logic that put this "stuff" to use and harnessed it to do something useful.

If we run out of "stuff", its up to clever monkeys to come up with substitutes and deploy them.

So, the real limit on growth is actually the limit on monkey cleverness and implementation, rather than stuff itself -- if you buy into the "running out of resources" meme being the end of the world, you are implicitly buying into stagnation, e.g. - we need that same stuff because we haven't been clever/lucky/worried enough to find something else to take its place and use other, more plentiful stuff in its stead...

So the question is, does the present society/environment promote monkey cleverness or not? The answer is the latter since of course, too much monkey cleverness is a threat to those in control...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:19 | 3016354 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

"Capitalism is exploitation of masses". who said it, i don't know but we will learn it soon. funny thing is that terrorist hate us for that.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:44 | 3016421 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Sorry but this turd that you are thinking is capitalism is nothing of the sort. So quit calling it capitalism and quit blaming capitalism. We have had nothing of the sort for at least 40 years if not more like 100. Without moral hazard there is no such thing as capitalism.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:47 | 3016427 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

We have nothing even remotely like "capitalism".  We have huge-government authoritarian socialist corporatism...or something.

If we DID have a little REAL capitalism, maybe we wouldn't have these problems...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:56 | 3016839 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

I agree but the US is still more capitalistic than most of rest of world.  Too many people want to blame capitalism which is nothing more than maximizing your God given talent.  What you do with your success is a qusetion of conscience, morality, and free can't be legislated by govt.  I get cracked up at academians that bash capitalism when I can prove to them that they are capitalists with a few simple qusetions like:  Have you ever turned down a raise?  If your employer offered to double your salary would you refuse?  Do you take money beyond your salary to review textbooks? Are you against for profit companies? If yes, I then tell them that each personal household is a for profit entity.  People, by nature, want a higher quality of life.  If your home was non-profit there would be no such things as vacations, high end goods/services etc because your income would only be sufficent to pay your bills (home, car, utilities, food) and everyone would essentially have the same home, car, clothes etc. No system has enhanced the quality of life of so many as capitalism.  It has created more technological, medical etc advances than most other systems combined.  Are they some downsides...yes. 

You still need govt for things like military, FDA etc but it's primary role should be to promote competition and transparency in the free marketplace but as it stands govt is the biggest barrier to those things.  Promoting the general welfare is not taking over, it's facilitating it via competition and transparency.

Of course capitalism is not perfect but greed, corruption etc is just as rampant in Socialism, Communism etc because those are choices individuals make.  As the line goes: "capitalism is the worst form of economic structure ever created....except for all of the others"

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:07 | 3016714 Seer
Seer's picture

Apparently people believe that the word "exploitation" is bad...  well, when it's not being applied to the physical world that is.

If capitalism were optimized people would be exploiting it on BOTH sides of the equation: odd "man" out would be "Mother Nature," who would make the discussion/point moot when he/she/it eventually (through entropy and resources exhaustion) pulls the plug.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:24 | 3016364 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture




What utter bullshit/nonsense, when is ZH going to give these von Mises people the boot?


"Instead of a dynamic, growing pot of wealth and ever-increasing resources ..."


Stop right there, everything written before and afterward is either too dumb for prime-time or an outright LIE. Ever-increasing resources are PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE ... more pimping for perpetual motion machines from the von Mises crewe. Good grief!


Ever-increasing resources like monkeys with wings flying out of Janet Daley's BUTT.



Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:05 | 3016461 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

 When you wish upon a star....

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:32 | 3016499 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

It's getting harder and harder dealing with these socialist idiots(steve is a good example).  Through out history there has always been the ignorant few, such as yourself, that can't grasp the idea of motivated men taking the resources given and developing them. Turning a cotton bole into fabric, tree sap into rubber, fat and lye into soap, wood pulp int paper, etc. It's not the amount of resources, but squeezing usefulness out of them that has made mans existence more comfortable. So now can you see how the 'ever increasing resources' works?  Probably not, your idealogy has made you stupid.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:44 | 3016521 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Janet Daley is not a very good writer. She says 'resources' but apparently means 'created capital'. Steve thinks she's talking about natural resources.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:06 | 3016638's picture

Oil was not a resource until the knowledge, technology and capital provided by free individuals made it a resource. There are numerous other examples.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:56 | 3016537 keesooi
keesooi's picture

No, no , I think you're misunderstanding steve (or is it P. Krugman?).

See, when you just go ahead and print more money, that's how you increase the wealth.  After all, that's the general thesis of von Mises' nemisis, trying to remember his name, some antisemitic British drunk. Think, think, goddammit!  Ah, I remember now: JM Keynes!  And then there is this thing called the (magical) "multiplier", which automatically multiplies the wealth when the government gets to spend your money.  O joy, I can't wait of what the government will think of next to increase my wealth.  Will it "invest"my money on a drone, or a tank, or hollow point bullits for DHS?  

Your suggestion of moving resources to higher valued uses requires a lot of effort and such, which of course is not at all desirable.  Oh the horror, if a farmer was allowed to use his money to invest in a better plow or combine.  No, much better to confiscate it so we can buy more wealth generating drones.  

Better to just have Benny hit the CTRL-P.  Yeah, let's just ditch those ideas of this evil von Mises and his preposterous business cycle ramblings.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 02:29 | 3016619 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture



You idiots won't understand entropy until it crushes you like the cockroaches you are.


I personally don't care.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:09 | 3016641's picture

The recognition of my own sovereignty compels me to recognize you as a human being as well regardless of your opinion of me. Funny thing is that I get the better end of that deal as only rational perception and thought can enable one to live in the real world.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:35 | 3016662 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

Retract the jab, we don't believe in perpetual motion,but rather human ingenuity spured by incentives and guided by unhampered prices, yielding ever increasing abundances, ultimately increasing the standard of living for all.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:34 | 3017272 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You seem to believe in a lot of empty rhetoric....

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:25 | 3016722 Seer
Seer's picture

In order for your logic to hold up there could NEVER be cancer... because, it has never happened before, so it can never happen in the future.

History is littered with collapsed civilizations, all of which occur as a result of insufficient resources for them to continue in status quo.

"It's not the amount of resources, but squeezing usefulness out of them that has made mans existence more comfortable."

If "amount" doesn't matter then by LOGIC that "amount" could also be ZERO.  Squeezing something from ZERO doesn't work.  So, well, we can't really talking about something being nothing, being zero, so I'll give you that it's MORE than ZERO.  OK, let's try it with there being ONLY a quantity of ONE.  How would the rest of your logic hold up?

What you're really talking about is "adapting," and I'll agree that this is essential.  BUT, one has to have an environment that allows at a minimum that for basic subsistence.  If you deplete your environment (as have MANY civilizations throughout history) you go the way of the Dodo.

Got nothing to do with capitalism or socialism, or any of this other virtual, rationalizing crap, which is really only levels of deception used by ALL living things as a way of surviving.  The best hunters in the animal kingdom, which probably aren't practicing "socialism," will STILL die (prematurely) if they are over-successful and kill off the available prey (that prey doesn't return the next year).

I say that your logic is shit, and I'm NOT a "socialist."  Your logic is like that of most all other religions- just believe that magic will happen (we've seen Christ appear on a slice of bread so we're guaranteed that he'll appear full and in person at some point in the future).

Entropy, either believe it or not.  Your choice.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:16 | 3016719 adventuretime
adventuretime's picture

According to our current understanding of cosmology and physics, ever-increasing resources is the reality of the universe.  But hey that shit's for nerds anyway.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:00 | 3016733 Seer
Seer's picture

Since logic is in your favor here I'm giving you a green.  All those stuffing you with red arrows can't possibly defend he position of perpetual growth on a finite planet: and funny it is that such people understand that this doesn't work ONLY when it comes to the virtual world of printing money (and, yes, because this position CAN be backed in logic I agree), but when it is applied to the PHYSICAL world, the world that is responsible for true existence, it's somehow possible.  Cognitive dissonance to be sure. It's the stuff of all those "revolutionaries" who overthrow a govt and then end up just like the previous overlords (meet the new boss, same as the old boss).

It's easy to make anything look good if you skip past the fundamental premise.  If we skip past the part about this being a finite planet then anyone can make a case for/against ANY "system," because, well, because it's a man-made (read "virtual") construct, not grounded to the PHYSICAL.

"Men argue, nature acts."  - Voltaire*

* Voltaire was critical of Leibniz's "Law of Continuity."  I bring this up because I think that that others who are arguing against you are essentially arguing the "Law of Continuity," but in REVERSE (transcribing the infinite into the finite- infinite resources on a finite planet)!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:52 | 3016835 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Of course some resources are limited. That does not invalidate the main message of the article.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:23 | 3016366 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture



Told the bankers to fuck off...........we should too

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:17 | 3016742 Seer
Seer's picture

Did they really tell the bankers to fuck off?  Are we sure of that?  That is, does the actual actions show this (rather than just verbalizations)?


Iceland successfully completed a bailout program led by the International Monetary Fund last year and has returned to bond markets. Forecasts for 2012 indicate GDP growth will be the strongest among developed countries, the central bank has said.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:26 | 3016374 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Less talk, more crash and burn.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:41 | 3016417 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

...reduced government spending accompanied by tax cuts (particularly on employment – what the Americans call “payroll taxes”) could stimulate the growth of new wealth and begin a recovery. Most politicians on the Right understand this. They have about five minutes left to make the argument for it...

more pathetic claptrap coming from the pedantic pen of a completely outdated thinker - begin a recovery??? stimulate new wealth??? via tax cuts???

What part of 'the party is over' do these people not get? "First world" is the new 'third world' it, love it, or leave it.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:50 | 3016437 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

The party is over because the credit card is beyond maxed out. We have a spending problem. Tax cuts in the past have increased revenue not decreased it. But the big spenders take all the increase and leverage it for even more spending. They are about out of leverage now. You spent it all and then some. Now quit asking me for even more money to waste.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:22 | 3016486 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Classic commentary from the dead-enders gallery...

though bankrupt morally and fiscally, your current surplus of funny money fiat allows you to vigorously bathe yourself in the myth that you have something that other folks want...

rant on brother....your tax cuts approach to dealing with reality will buy you more quality time on the hangman's noose...perhaps you're one of those kinky banksters with a fetish for strangulation fantasies>>>???

"A hangman seeks to break the neck, not to strangulate and not to severe the head. Strangulation is cruel and prolonged; severing of the head is messy. If there are too many loops in the noose, the friction causes it to tighten slowly resulting in a strangulation; if there are too few loops, the noose tightens rapidly resulting in the severing of the head."




Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:16 | 3016563 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I go to work every day. Save money. Drive a car with 150,000 miles on it. I don't appreciate parasites like you thinking you are entitled to what I have earned.

Don't worry, I won't spend any time on the hang mans noose. I'll go out on my own terms well before that would happen. I won't feel one bit sorry for people like you though. You will get what you deserve.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 02:59 | 3016634 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Let me rework it for you so as to improve your chances of getting it...

nobody wants or needs anything at all of what you have[earned or otherwise]...outside of your fantasy world inhabited by orcs and trolls constantly in search of your stash of infinite riches, life is going on in the fashion to which hard working people all over the globe are accustomed.

If you could but read the link that I thoughtfully provided in the original posting, it would gradually dawn upon you that you are neither invited to or missed from this developing trend to live free of pathetic legacy hangers on such as yourself...

but you've done an excellent job of standing in for and representing in minature the entire collapsing edifice of 'Merikanism[the Wimpire Bites Back edition] are a Stär.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:12 | 3016647's picture

You can rework insanity seven ways till Sunday and rational men will still shake their heads at you.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:13 | 3016648 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Your moniker is so perfectly ironic. How long did you work on it?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:07 | 3016712 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

It came almost instantaneously after leaving the Euromerikan prison zone, squire. One of the many blessings, large and small, of stepping outside of  the reach of sio-nazi mind-control techniques, poison-chemtrails, faux food, nanny state minders and the general slide into pointless pontificating and endless moaning in place of action...

everything gets easier: thinking, breathing, working,'s kind of joyous reunion with the really real...but I can understand that's not to everyone's taste! And that, back inside the similucra, some would prefer not to be reminded of their fateful decision to embrace their new fascisto-socialist masters meekly. Any further questions Your Smugness?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:35 | 3016755 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Why,sure,many questions. I do appreciate you extracting smugness. When a small prick of sarcasm elicits a vomiting of new age psycho-pseudo phraseology that transgresses the border of precious, one wonders how you developed your sense of your apparent superiority to us mere, unknowing mortals. That was a rhetorical question, but without a rising inflection or the usual punctuation. But you know that. Your's is the superior mind, Khan.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:35 | 3016509 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Yeah, that last bit was pretty lame. We're way past the point where it matters. A huge reset will be necessary and maybe even then, Spengler might be right... the rise of Asia, curtains for the West.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:22 | 3016744 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, "recovery" to what? No one can say what That is!

Catching a ride on the slinky's "up-side" appears to still sucker people, sigh...  I'm getting off the fucking staircase (slinky down the staircase).

Even terminal cancer patients can have good days...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:55 | 3016445 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

Where do you draw the line between an algorithm being a utility or being a menace?  Great video from the author of "Automate This"..and that's exacty what he says and asked the question who gets to be control of these algorithms...we know the rich are right now no doubt there and needs to be fixed for the economy to fix itselft as they used algorithms not just in the markets but all over for financial gain.  Now there's hardly anyone out there to spend enough money...gee what happened...again good video on the power of the algorithms and what has happened.

The folks that own and direct those algorithms are taking over the world.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:26 | 3016747 Seer
Seer's picture

"They" have ALWAYS owned the world.  In the past it was done through enslavement/capture of human power.  Today it's via machines.  It's always a shift in the charade; we mustn't mistake this as being some change in human behavior.  At some point there is a limit, as energy inputs apply to machines, just as it does to humans (food).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:27 | 3016797 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Would you like to know more?

Project Mercury

eLoyalty - making your customers more loyal?

Analysing Twitter for psychopaths, can it be done? (spoiler: yes)


The bottom line of this? Every electronic communication is run through algos. There are four responses:


1) Not give a fuck; trust everyone using said algos is trustworthy and adheres to privacy laws (this is the majority of net users, be it due to ignorance or not). Using Google qualifies you for this - personally, I've no issue with Google mapping my particular thought patterns in my searches, as I see that as a fair exchange for their product. (I'm also aware that I'm essentially immune to advertising, which means I'm of zero value to their business plan).

2) Camouflage / Chameleon behaviour (i.e. ape the monkey next door); interestingly, some see the drive to "pacify" the web, aka, tame-the-trolls as having the dual purpose of removing a lot of noise that can be hidden in. Pruning the canopy, if you will ~ humans always preferred savanna to hunt in (their great leap forward)

3) Pattern breaking / dislocative shift; be it DaDa or Tralala or simply going Fruit Loop

4) Being beyond the pattern


#4 is the most interesting, but of course I'd say that. (There's also some Jungian dreamscape interest, but that's going to be waaay too wacky for ZH, keep it concrete).


GOD has the right and my permission to rearrange my life to achieve his purposes - Google Analytics (spoiler: it's art)


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:02 | 3016848 Seer
Seer's picture

Nature is cloaked in deception.

As I'd already mentioned, many yammer about wanting all sorts of changes, and given that it's perfectly well that they do so, always ask for changes in their favor.  At the basic level of survival it's an enticement, a luring of things to come closer...  The other way, like the brutes do it, like big business and govt do it, is to just pull out the hammer and whack whatever the fuck you want, club it to death so you can eat.

I know what's going on.  I also know that there are no "answers," as "answers" are usually sought in the form of a solution, and, frankly, there are no solutions as long as time ticks on (a "solution" is permanent, and there's nothing that's permanent that's under the influence of time).  For me I believe that it's only ever about adjusting to one's environment: I'll agree that it sounds dodgy, but it also sounds like a better of endorser of what it means to be "free" (and the word "dodgy" can mean deceptive, so... full circle I guess).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:31 | 3016884 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Man didn't prefer the Savannah...he was pushed there by changing ecology.

Next time, we may not fall up.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:26 | 3016969 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Indeed, which is why reactionary treatment of climate change has always baffled me (I understand it, I just don't comprehend it).

People place the birth of civilisation at the feet of agriculture; the birth of the mind was founded in a global orgy of mobile slaughter as homo "sapiens" gobbled down all the mega-fauna.


Possibly the funniest exploration of that truth.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 11:18 | 3017409 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

it would be quite interesting to run that plugin on this website (hint, hint).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:25 | 3016490 10mm
10mm's picture

Drink,Get High,Suck and Fuck.The 70"s.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:32 | 3016753 Seer
Seer's picture

Back then when things were tight we told ourselves to Reduce, Recycle and Re-use.  Since then"Reduce" has been dropped, with the full opposing pendulum swing occurring when following 9/11 George W. Bush told everyone to go shopping.  And, really. IS there a difference between  "drink, get high, such and fuck" and "consume?"

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:09 | 3016931 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

You just do it in the back of an SUV now (because that's the only vehicle that will fit two lard-laden bags of Krispy Kreme).


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:01 | 3016536 honestann
honestann's picture

Game over.  Those 5 minutes were in the late 1960s.  And the only republican or conservative in congress didn't run for re-election.  Game over, decades ago.

The world population was corrupted, several decades ago.  Now they will get what they deserve, and they'll get it in spades.  Unfortunately, the 1% of human population who always advocated honesty, liberty, productivity and benevolence will suffer the consequences of nasty, predatory authoritarianism too.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:48 | 3016766 Seer
Seer's picture

"Unfortunately, the 1% of human population who always advocated honesty, liberty, productivity and benevolence will suffer the consequences of nasty, predatory authoritarianism too."

Only 1% of 7+ billion people on this planet?  Well... that would still be quite a few, but I'm thinking that there are far more people (just because you don't see/hear them doesn't mean they don't exist [kind of hard to have eyes and ears all around the globe]).  But back to the 7+ billion, most of these people already live very conservatively, things will only get tighter for them, which means that bone starts getting cut.  Yeah, we lose some fat, poor us...

BTW - "Game over" for the US was in 1971.  That's the year that the USD broke from the gold standard (disconnect from PHYSICAL reality).  Oh, and was it also a coincidence that that's also the same year that US oil production peaked?  I'm thinking not... (TPTB in the US knew it was coming and that the US wouldn't be able to export its way out of debt- commence printing...).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 23:09 | 3019309 honestann
honestann's picture

I hope you are correct.  I used to say 5% to 10%, but as time passes I see that most of these folks are only weakly or theoretically inclinded towards honesty, liberty, productivity and benevolence... so when they should adamantly refuse or criticize the predators, they instead shut their mouths and sanction if not actively support the predators.

But I most certainly do hope you are correct and I am wrong.

You can certainly make a good argument for 1971, but the sheeple should have vociferously stood up to the warfare + welfare state, which was created by Johnson (after he and the central banksters took out Kennedy).  I count assassination, huge and blatantly unconstitutional warfare, and unlimited control of education and welfare to be quite "real and physical", not just "theoretical".  Nonetheless, we're just quibbling at the edges.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:10 | 3016935 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Nice myths.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 02:11 | 3016605 tok1
tok1's picture

the QE is the redistribution.. Bascially the Govt (via central bank) is taking everyone's interest on deposits.. and using it for their own spending.. so at  0-0.5% rates for 0-5ys  people need to work for ever.. It has also driven up the price of other assets (ie stocks / farm land ect) so that they too have poor yields relative to risk and are no compensation..

The Govt should come clean. Just say the people have two choices.

1) the Govt can increase the money supply (ie Govt issues bonds / FED buys them) and the money is redistributed)  so  the value of everyone's assets goes down to maintain the staus qoe.

2) the currenct debt is considered real in which case the Govt needs to pay down the debt (or default) and budget needs to be balanced .. And let it all start again..

ie now the Govt / FED is pretending that rates are low becuase of slow economic growth and demand for bonds ignoring 

ie FED buying.  Its the Govts desire to control everything (and thus their excessive spending) thats requiring central banks to buy.  

The Obvious action  is to move a lot of Govt functions to competative private sector... via deregulation.. and let rates fall to their natural level.. so people are compensated for risk and having saved.

Obama commented that it was deregulation that caused 2008 crash ..when it was the exact opposite.. ie FANNIE / FREDDIE guarantee's morgages that lead banks to think they Govt backed) ie had no risk.,, If the Govt had really de regulated then 1) banks would have been more careful with counter party risk 2) some would have gone under early as counterparties would have stop lending earlier if they knew everyone was on their own (how its suppose to be).


The Govt should just come in in extreme cases of fraud.. ect... to guarantee deposits.. Share holders shoud lose first  .. then bond holders.. Deposits should be guaranteed ..


lastly if prices fell (ie bond  and stocks) then yes the current owners would suffer but future investors would get proepr returns that wuld then really stimulate activity. ie its the low returns that are required to keep Govt spending going that is causing never ending slow economy.

Its obvious.





Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:57 | 3016776 Seer
Seer's picture

What's obvious is that there are TWO tango-ing, not just one- govt.  It's govt AND business.  Govt is made to look good by restraining runaway abusive business practices (via "regulations" [in theory]).  In order for business to accept this business requires backstopping by the govt.  [primary business cohorts are in the banking and "defense" sectors- all has been well here]  Circular function...  Same coin.

"Old Charlie stole the handle and the train it wouldn't stop going No way to slow down"

Time, as a function of the exponential function of growth, isn't slowing down...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:09 | 3016640 Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

Daley has recapitulated Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" without attribution. That is just plain rude.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 03:22 | 3016655 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

I'm growing to appreciate the "fuck it, I'm going full retard" approach.

I have no interest in "fighting" the system.  Maybe the best course is every man for himself.

Why make a stand and end up like Schiff, rotting in an IRS debtor prison?

Join the party, participate in local and state politics, and work against the system in the shadows.

I'm feeling more and more like I should hide my true self and project a pro-govt, nationalistic front to those who would frisk, interrogate, maim, and kill the opposition.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:06 | 3016786 Seer
Seer's picture

Energy, use it wisely.  Nature does.

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
? Richard Buckminster Fuller

What I know for sure is that we need food, shelter and water.  I base my actions on this fundamental knowledge.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:07 | 3016928 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Did Bucky say that before or after the Dymaxion Car debacle? ;)

I believe the question before us is whether or not ALL the passengers on Spaceship Earth need food, shelter, and water and if not, which subset does.


Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:10 | 3016789 onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

sounds like your going over to the dark side Raymond.  What happened to give me liberty or give me death?

I think there have been people think this way before but in the end they climb to the top of a clock tower and make their 15 minutes of fame.  Better to burn out than to fade away.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 12:36 | 3017657 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

I just feel that if things continue this way, many of the people who post on this site will be part of the first wave of relocated dissidents to "reeducation" camps.  

I have a responsibility to those who rely on me to do whatever I need to do to keep them safe.

There doesn't seem to be anybody outside of the internet who's willing to change the tide, so why stick my neck out?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 04:06 | 3016679 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Capitalism for the happy few, socialism for the rest of us.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:10 | 3016790 Seer
Seer's picture

Apparently the (one at this time) person who down-arrowed you thinks it the other way around: Socialism for the few, capitalism for the rest of us.  Which reality, then, is correct? (I understand that folks want "everyone" to have Capitalism, but, what's at issue is what is happening NOW- if you cannot identify the problem correctly you're NOT going to solve [what appears to be] the problem).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 10:45 | 3017311 smacker
smacker's picture

Socialism doesn't support the concept of it only applying to the few as if it were optional. It imposes its will -- eventually by force of the police state -- onto everybody. All in the name of "fairness" "social justice" and "equality" of course.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:09 | 3016738 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

I love articles like this, that proclaim the end of capitalism and life as we know (knew) it, because it manages to spread the gloom and doom message far and wide, keeping would-be, marginal entrepreneurs on the sidelines and forcing them down into menial laborers or worse, government check-cashers.

For those of us who've had the unique pleasure of actually running a business in the past 30 or so years, this point in time is particularly pregnant with possibilities if one is situated to take on risk and/or test the limits of government meddling.

Sure, the govt. will try to tax or regulate businesses out of existence, but that's how the game is being played, and, since it's rigged against the little guys, playing dirty has become de rigeur.

Black markets, grey markets, multiple revenue streams in cash, currency, PMs or barter are the keys to survival in this regime.

Who is the government, anyhow? Don't give me that "we are the government" slop, that ended decades ago. The government, according to my definition, is just a gang or criminal organization devised to steal as much money and property as possible while preventing competition with their brethren corporations. They are the mob, except without any moral code, in cheaper suits, and they need to be avoided or dealt with in myriad manners.

As long as people keep wanting "jobs" or dependence on government, that cash floating around is there for the picking by adroit, inspired small businesses, who need to get to it before the Wal-Marts and JP Morgans of the world do.

The bulk of the population is so utterly fucking clueless about what's happening right around them, it's scary, but once one sees the light and decides to fight rather than flee (or bitch and moan), the path of resistance becomes clear, and it is to grab one's share by whatever means, skirting the laws whenever possible and avoiding detection by the "authorities" (mobsters).

I encourage anyone with his or her wits still intact to start small enterprises, keep your head down, and keep making money until you have enough to support a solid lifestyle (mostly in cash). People still need to eat, have reasonable places to live, and, since government insists on overpaying its employees at all levels, these people are prime candidates for exploitation (not a bad word) by smart operators.

I could go on endlessly on this topic, but the point is to resist and act. Resist acting like a sheeple, resist acting upon what the media plants in everyone's minds, resist Big Brother. Acting on one's own, in one's own self-interest is the path to survival, respect and maybe even prosperity. Encourage others to do the same. Start a home business, pay for things in cash or barter, start raising your own food to some extent, grow from the ground up. There's plenty of opportunity once you take government out of the equation.

Screw the bitchin' and moanin' -- life is too short - and too much fun - for crybabies.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:40 | 3016762 Peterus
Peterus's picture

Pilliging is risky and costly business - victims will fight for their life and even if they are not specialized in combat, they will occasionally kill some of the aggressors. It's better to threaten and "allow the victim to give it without violence", much fewer people will risk lives for whatever they lose this way and costs go down. Better still - rule. Conquer once and than keep systematic robbery that people can put up with. However, the best, sweetest deal ever is to rule so that the ruled don't know they are your subjects. They are very productive, they don't rebel - no risk of paying with rulers life for some mistake - just keep on taking wealth they produce. You can also cut some people in on this, poor are best bet, as they will become loyal supporters for the least amount of money per head. Corporations, unions, trade organizations etc are also great, as they don't want any money, just a priviledge that is costless for rulers. If only rulers could curtial thier greed for fiat money and still have some constraint of their actions - it could all keep going on and on.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:21 | 3016806 onthesquare
onthesquare's picture


Could not agree more.

On those, so called, old appliance pickup days.  Get a truck and trailer and help yourself to the bounty at the curb.  100 pounds of Al is worth $50 bucks.  Steel appliance shells bring in good money.  Electronic junk have a good return.  For that matter rent a truck.  Buy your cloths at the used cloths store.  Do these things and before you know it your thinking for yourself, as was mean't to be.

Any person, who works for another person, is making that person more money than he is being rewarded.  Profit goes to the employer.  Get organized and get rewarded the full amount that you are worth.

Easier said than done but you get the idea

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:40 | 3016822 Seer
Seer's picture

"I encourage anyone with his or her wits still intact to start small enterprises, keep your head down, and keep making money until you have enough to support a solid lifestyle (mostly in cash). People still need to eat, have reasonable places to live, and, since government insists on overpaying its employees at all levels, these people are prime candidates for exploitation (not a bad word) by smart operators."

All sounds so romantic, no?

What's the purpose of starting a "small enterprise?"  Planning on keeping it small?  No continued growth?  I suspect that most everyone aspires to grow their business (more of a good thing is good, right?).  And this is where things turn into having a life of their own, where the captains of the enterprise start doing all they can to protect that ship, even if it means lying, cheating and stealing (just like the big boys do).

I've also got to bring up the notion itself that all "small enterprises" are good, are honest, they are not: I have no idea on percentages, I'm just taking off some of the hyperbole).  It's also likely true that not all "big enterprises" are bad, are dishonest*.

* Yeah, BIG = FAIL; something that fails could have had good intent; my nit is the notion that all "small enterprises" are good.

So, OK, folks are already lining up to take shots... Whoa there!  I desire that people be allowed to freely (unless they've been found guilty of abusing such privileges) to start and engage in any small enterprises.  I'm suggesting caution on thinking that "small enterprises" will make everything better, they will not.

If EVERYONE, if EVERY enterprise, BIG or SMALL, had no lobbying access to govt, would things be better?  Just curious what people would think here.  Because, well, because I think that BIG enterprises tend to monopolize favors from govt.  I also believe that in many instances small enterprises wish they had more power to influence govt.  This is the dilemma, the reason why I'm ZERO GOVT (no, not for the person who posts under that name), but for NO center of power.  I have no delusions, however, that getting rid of govt would make things better: they would only make things different; we'd all be facing a whole nother set of problems/issues, but none would likely burgeon to the point that we could blow up everyone on the planet.

I'll refrain from asking what you mean by a "solid lifestyle" (sounds kind of Madison Avenue-ish [marketing lingo]).  I'll also refrain from asking what one can do with money that's "mostly in cash" (sounds like a promotion of the USD [govt+bankster money] ).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:20 | 3016870 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Seer, you bring up a few interesting points, which I can address.

As far as growth is concerned, why can't a small business stay small? Does the operator of a successful small restaurant that seats 30 automatically aspire to own one that seats 300? How about quality, improving the business, making it more profitable, better service, etc.

I learned the hard way that in business, bigger is not always better. Went from one very localized free newspaper to seven all over the place and within two years lost it all. Manage what you can and improve, experiment, have some fun (a concept sadly lost on most people these days.

As for the "small means honest" meme, I never said that. Actually, small businesses are in such a fight for their lives in many cases that they skirt the laws and regulations that bind them. That's why cash and barter are central themes in my world.

You are absolutely correct on big business lobbies monopolizing government largesse. Just look at the laws that protect big enterprises, to the detriment of small ones in almost all areas of endeavor: farming, banking and maybe most importantly, forming political parties come to mind wherein the government, via lobbyists who write laws, has erected enormous barriers to entry.

Anywhere and in any endeavor in which you need a license to operate is an impediment to free enterprise.

As for a "solid lifestyle" (maybe some of my old newspaper habits are returning if I sound a bit Madison Ave-ish), I mean having what you need, not much more, to make you happy. For me, it's a home on a couple of acres with privacy to grow food, tobacco and flowers, cash and PMs safely tucked away, a steady business flow and no interference from government interlopers telling me what to do, how to do it and where and when I can.

Back in the 60s and 70s we used to say, "get government off our backs." That message got lost on most of my age peers who kept approving tax hike after tax hike in local jurisdictions, electing power-mad megalomaniacs to national offices and just plain old apathy. Now, many of these same folks are retiring or wishing they could (they actually can if they shed the whole "retirement" myth and start doing something productive which they like - takes some soul-searching, but it's possible), and looking ahead to more taxes and trying to preserve their precious capital in their "golden" years. Yuk. At nearly 59, the last thing I want to do is retire. There's too much that I haven't done or tried still out there.

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