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When Work Is Punished: The Tragedy Of America's Welfare State

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Exactly two years ago, some of the more politically biased progressive media outlets (who are quite adept at creating and taking down their own strawmen arguments, if not quite as adept at using an abacus, let alone a calculator) took offense at our article "In Entitlement America, The Head Of A Household Of Four Making Minimum Wage Has More Disposable Income Than A Family Making $60,000 A Year." In it we merely explained what has become the painful reality in America: for increasingly more it is now more lucrative - in the form of actual disposable income - to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work. This is graphically, and very painfully confirmed, in the below chart from Gary Alexander, Secretary of Public Welfare, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (a state best known for its broke capital Harrisburg). As quantitied, and explained by Alexander, "the single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045."

We realize that this is a painful topic in a country in which the issue of welfare benefits, and cutting (or not) the spending side of the fiscal cliff, have become the two most sensitive social topics. Alas, none of that changes the matrix of incentives for most Americans who find themselves in a comparable situation: either being on the left side of minimum US wage, and relying on benefits, or move to the right side at far greater personal investment of work, and energy, and... have the same disposable income at the end of the day.

Naturally, the topic of wealth redistribution is paramount one now that America is entering the terminal phase of its out of control spending, and whose response to hike taxes in a globalized, easily fungible world, will merely force more of the uber-wealthy to find offshore tax jurisdictions, avoid US taxation altogether, and thus result to even lower budget revenues for the US. It explains why the cluelessly incompetent but supposedly impartial Congressional Budget Office just released a key paper titled "Share of Returns Filed by Low- and Moderate-Income Workers, by Marginal Tax Rate, Under 2012 Law" which carries a chart of disposable income by net income comparable to the one above.

But perhaps the scariest chart in the entire presentation is the following summarizing the unsustainable welfare burden on current taxpayers:

  • For every 1.65 employed persons in the private sector, 1 person receives welfare assistance
  • For every 1.25 employed persons in the private sector, 1 person receives welfare assistance or works for the government.

The punchline: 110 million privately employed workers; 88 million welfare recipients and government workers and rising rapidly.

And since nothing has changed in the past two years, and in fact the situation has gotten progressively (pardon the pun) worse, here is our conclusion on this topic from two years ago:

We have been writing for over a year, how the very top of America's social order steals from the middle class each and every day. Now we finally know that the very bottom of the entitlement food chain also makes out like a bandit compared to that idiot American who actually works and pays their taxes. One can only also hope that in addition to seeing their disposable income be eaten away by a kleptocratic entitlement state, that the disappearing middle class is also selling off its weaponry. Because if it isn't, and if it finally decides it has had enough, the outcome will not be surprising at all: it will be the same old that has occurred in virtually every revolution in the history of the world to date.

But for now, just stick head in sand, and pretend all is good. Self-deception is now the only thing left for the entire insolvent entitlement-addicted world.

* * *

Full must read presentation: "Welfare's Failure and the Solution"

 

Some other thoughts on this topic: DOES IT PAY, AT THE MARGIN, TO WORK AND SAVE?

 

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Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:34 | 3014787 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

"Is there something wrong with gravity in the future?"

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:36 | 3015218 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

while in theory I like your descriptions, you've managed to leave out how profitable this same system is for funneling fiats upwards, particularly for those MIC parasites, and CEOs strip mining the corps(e) before leaving everything a steaming pile, moving delicately on to the next.

not so "inept" when viewed from another perspective.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 21:18 | 3016105 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

The Greeks named it first with kakistocracy.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:35 | 3014602 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

As the burden to the private sector increases, SP500 companies weaken as their profits dive.  SP500 companies profits are stable/increasing, but the "firing people" strategy only works for so long.  It's more of a tactic.

 

http://bullandbearmash.com/chart/sp500-weekly-362-austerity-debt-fiscal-...

 

And once the markets tank, the pensions collapse - and all the entitlementers in the government lose their retirement funds - and not just some, but most, if not all.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:37 | 3014606 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

with 29 you need the money, with 70 not obviously

if you like work so much then go work, dont bother others with it

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:36 | 3014607 sangell
sangell's picture

If you add to welfare benefits the costs of law enforcement, the criminal justice system and public schools. all of which the underclass use disproportionately you can see that that fat female welfare animal needs to be exterminated not have her benefits reduced.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:51 | 3015258 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the "fat female welfare animal" isn't really using the "law enforcement & criminal justice systems" as much as the sires now, is she. . .

jobs for the boys though - won't someone think of the lawyers?? and the LEOs??? and private for-profit prisons??

sigh.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:58 | 3015277 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

it's all going according to plan

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:05 | 3015291 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

INGSOC

V

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:37 | 3014612 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Welfare is reverse Slavery.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:40 | 3014621 Mr. Lucky
Mr. Lucky's picture

Mission Accomplished

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:35 | 3015417 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

You really need a big banner and aircraft carrier to pull that off these days.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:41 | 3014622 Nostradamus
Nostradamus's picture

If government contractors aren't included in the "government employee" statistic then the ratio of private employees to government employees and welfare recipients would drop below 1 to 1.  There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who work for a company whose profit is made almost 100% from government contracting.  Their pay is possible as a result of tax dollars being given to the companies that employ them.  So, they too are a strain on the whole system.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:41 | 3014624 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Maybe if I start working for myself by July instead of May, then I'll be paying my "fair share".

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:43 | 3014628 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Work is punished from the taxation of labor, not "handouts".

If communities would actually not be divided, and stick together for fucking once, maybe we can go back to farming with local gardens and provide for those families in need, instead of the government (who is drained to the heels by JPM and Monsanto).

It's ridiculious that I'm taxed more than Jaime Dimon, despite that asshole not doing a day of work in his fucking life.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:46 | 3014638 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

This is why the fiat currencies will collapse.  Humanity's idea of value/compensation is all screwed up, fuck the mother fucking paper-pushers.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:50 | 3014648 Nostradamus
Nostradamus's picture

It takes a village.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:32 | 3014746 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Personally, I'm sick of this "village" meme. Just rote marxist collectivism. It's the 21st century, and I for one do not want to live in a fucking village. What am I? Some Medieval serf? Some Stone Age Tribal?

It's the 21st century, dammit. We're supposed to believe that the last thousand years of innovation, liberty, and progress in Western Civilization leads directly back to the peasant collective? Fuck that. in its neck.

What purveyors of this stupid cultural marxist meme don't realize, is that villages are tribal arrangements. They are inhabited by clans, extended families, and/or members of a closely related gene pool. Thus, if we devolve to village life, the prized "diversity" will likewise be exterminated.

Facts of Life, bitchez. You want to engineer society, you'd better read some basic biology first.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:52 | 3014857 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I guess you want to sterilize the villages also?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:26 | 3015008 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

No, I would like civilization to continue. I do not wish to see the actual progress achieved by Western Civilization  surrendered to some primitive, atavistic collective of yesteryear.

I have nothing against the villages of the world, only to say that we in the West surpassed them centuries ago. They are welcome to their way of life, but not to forcibly extract my production for their sustenance, here nor elsewhere.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:07 | 3014688 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Are you kidding? Do you think it's easy being an Oligarch? Strip-mining the middle class is a lot of work.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:45 | 3014630 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr's 2nd Shot's picture

I am told the first civil war was about slavery too.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:45 | 3014635 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

incentivized retardation. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:49 | 3014646 j-dub
j-dub's picture

"the single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045."

 

But I thought women were soooooooo independent.  You go girl and all that.  You don't need a man!!!

No, all she needs is the state.  Feminism-another huge lie!!

The bigger the lie.........

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:28 | 3014661 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

"Feminism-another huge lie!!"

Or maybe you is just a Fuck ugly eunuch J-Dub             (real name - Travis Hawkins Jr)

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:33 | 3014782 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Let's not forget Obama's Julia:

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:59 | 3015278 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I shouldn't, but I will,

Feminism-another huge lie!!

which is it lads - Feminazi's gots all yer jawbs!!!  or Feminazi's gets all yer Welfares!!!!

oh wait, the false stats in the article - picked apart further upthread - sez womenz get yer jobs AND yer Welfare!!

win win bitchez.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:52 | 3014650 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Mother nature will have the last laugh at homo sapiens thwarting

natural selection.Sooner, rather than later.

Back to a 600 million world population will be the result.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:40 | 3014814 resurger
resurger's picture

she bats last ......

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:02 | 3014653 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Arbeit Macht Frei?

OT

No more intrade if you live in the USA.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34227_162-57554483/intrade-boots-u.s-residen...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:34 | 3015212 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

JFC, first poker, now intrade.  Locked down by the FinCen.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:55 | 3015229 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

True.

 

 

 

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:53 | 3014655 SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

I'd be shocked if Mr. Alexander is still employed by this time tomorrow.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 13:58 | 3014668 azengrcat
azengrcat's picture

Lets not forget the student loan debt people have burdened themselves with to get to the right side of the graph.  Shoulda been a Burger Flipper!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:03 | 3014678 jojomama
jojomama's picture

it's been said several times here, but i'll say it again.

 

reduce the minimum wage enough or keep it flat long for a long enough time (as corporations and their lobbying have done), and yes, "welfare" wages will be higher.

 

that's simple mathematics.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:31 | 3014776 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Even simpler mathematics:  Give people money for doing nothing, and you will have more people doing nothing next year.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:42 | 3014816 spooz
spooz's picture

Except people don't get paid for doing nothing since the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.

look it up.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:06 | 3014953 darteaus
darteaus's picture

And the tax code also applies equally to everyone too!

 

Looked it up for you!  Changed in 2012 by the Obama administration:

"In July 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services released a memo notifying states that they are able to apply for a waiver for the work requirements of the TANF program, but only if states were also able to find credible ways to increase employment by 20%.[11] The waiver would allow states to provide assistance without having to enforce the work component of the program"

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:32 | 3016395 spooz
spooz's picture

From Factcheck.org:

"[Former Republican staff director of the Subcommittee on Human Resources for the House Ways and Means Committee Rob] Haskins also said that the new waiver policy does not “gut welfare reform.” He cites two reasons: The federal government will continue to hold states accountable for moving people off welfare and into jobs, and the states have a tremendous financial incentive to use the new waiver authority to improve employment outcomes.

“The idea that the states will use this to bring people back on the welfare rolls … doesn’t make sense to me,” Haskins said. “The states are all about work. All they talk about is work. They agree with welfare reform and they want to figure out how to get everybody they can into the labor force — because it is to their advantage.”

Funny thing the Rs are all about states rights, unless a D comes up with the idea...

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:05 | 3014682 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Since money grows on trees, what's the problem?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:27 | 3014761 uno
uno's picture

electronic trees, real trees take too much energy and time.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:13 | 3014703 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Remember who the biggest suckers are:  the middle and upper middle classes who work their asses off to escape to some enclave or suburb, to put their children in "good" public schools or private schools, to pay off the cars and mortgages and taxes.  They are kept on a treadmill to keep up with the Joneses and put a comfortable distance between themselves and the ghettos, barrios, and trailer parks.

And yet...they are so far away from the oligarchy that it's a joke.  And the oligarchs know it, and they know they can count on these classes for their support...because the alternative is a spiral downward and ultimately to pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison.

Also remember...if you don't know who the sucker is, it's you.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:12 | 3014707 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

When I look at the nice picture of matchstick people one thing strikes me. So close to the 50%, 1 for 1 etc.

Then you look at the ones on welfare assistance or government employees and realise this "not-needed people". Well it is true, not needed and if you reveal the true level of inactive people (= not working) potentially it is 50%.

Now if you receive some form of financial assistance and work is it not to renumerate the employers to create a job that is probably not needed. 

Sure explains why the debt is escalating, people employed doing non-jobs to keep the true number of unemployed far lower than what it would otherwise be. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:39 | 3014807 spooz
spooz's picture

Would those "non-jobs" include all the McJobs that don't pay a living wage and require subsidies to meet basic needs?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:39 | 3015438 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

McJobs shouldn't be considered careers, they exist as stepping stones or high schooler work for extra money. If people are unhappy with the wage offered then simply don't take the job! Dumbasses.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:52 | 3015686 nasa
nasa's picture

The job that was the path to the next level is now in China, all that is left is the McJob.   Welcome to the New World Order.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:17 | 3014723 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Welfare is a mass immigration subsidy tool, you have to pay it if you want mass immigration, mass immigration into an already occupied territory cannot occur without subsidy, the ocupiers (Americans) have too great a home field advantage.  

Mass immigration is predicated on the assumption that foreigners can move in and grow and displace already established Americans without subsidy, which of course is rediculous, scabs have higher expenses-mostly housing, they have to compete and undercut the wages of children living in their parents homes for free. 

Its impossible to undercut the wages of Americans who have lower "buy in" living expenses hence the need for massive subsidies for immigrants and aliens, and of course you can't give away free shit to foreigners without giving away free shit to Americans.  

One day the welfare will end, and all the Americans that took the money to ignore foreign invasion will be stuck competing with millions of foreign citizens and no more subsidies, that day is soon.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:37 | 3014795 spooz
spooz's picture

So wrong.  So misinformed.  So infused with propaganda.  So lacking in critical thinking skills.

Do you have some citations for this garbage other than blowhard talk radio hosts?

Cretin.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:00 | 3014888 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

It's an interesting viewpoint.  Besides ad hominem attacks, what is your argument?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:06 | 3014918 spooz
spooz's picture

Who needs an argument when you can spit out propaganda like "Welfare is a mass immigration subsidy tool" with no support whatsoever?  Any "welfare" received by immigrants is a drop in the bucket.  And immigration is going in the other direction since we don't have jobs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more...

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:15 | 3014957 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Well you made some kind of argument, even though you didn't want to.

Yeah, Mexican immigration may be receding, but I wonder about asian immigration (high tech employment).

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:00 | 3015113 spooz
spooz's picture

I'm 100% for immigration reform.  H-1b Visas limit US wages and steal US jobs.

Still not an indictment of the social safety net.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:09 | 3015297 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

any opinion on how the military awarding green cards for "illegals" who enlist fits into the equation?

working as intended?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:22 | 3014742 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Free Stuff Army (FSA) won the election.  The direction of country and it's future decided. It's Socialism. 

Take money from those that have it and give it to those that do not, the FSA

It's now tax businesses and working people to the max to support those living on the government! 

After taxing the businesses and working people it's on to seizing their savings and assets!

The progressive movement is progressing on stealing your wealth.

 

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:19 | 3014973 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    The direction of country and it's future decided. It's Socialism.

When do you think we could expect something to change in any recognizable way? 

The last major socialist expansion was Medicare-D.  Old folks can't afford their pills.  If government stops paying for them, not only will it save in short-term costs, but they'd probably die a lot sooner too, which'd help with other expenses.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:29 | 3015200 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Old folks don't need 90% of the pills they're scarfing.  I say, scale Part D back and let these folks stop supporting Big Pharma.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:15 | 3015316 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

.gov uses medicare to funnel profits to Big Pharma - just like "welfare" is funneled to folks via plastic bankcards that award profits for the pixel creators, and prop up the Section 8 land-Lords, supermarkets, gas stations, etc. etc.

while I'd love to end folks dependency on Pharma, the cycle guarantees that anyhow. . .

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:22 | 3014747 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Why in the hell does anybody have incentive to work? You have parasites from all sides who produce nothing yet continue to suck the life blood out of the middle class. If it's not the war mongering government, it's the good for nothing bankers, and if it's not them it's the people that the system  encourages to take advantadge of it. When trillions are passed out to the bankers and the war machine I don't blame people for grabbing a few thousand bucks.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:35 | 3014794 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

yea, the middle class is raped!

All the real estate agents, lawers, car salesman, paper pushers, insurance agents, cops, fbi, government bureaucrats - the productive bone of society!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:46 | 3014836 adr
adr's picture

Oh I blame the people for taking a few thousand bucks.

It's either available for everyone or available for none. That is the only fair system.

I make $60k, have a wife and a kid, didn't buy an extravagant home, have two years of cash, and only use a credit card when I can get same as cash. Yet I have less left out of my paycheck every month than the couple living next to me with six kids because the couple isn't married and the girl gets just about every welfare program known to man. I have my thermostat on 68, they have it at 75 because they get HEAP.

I guess that is why my wife says I'm always angry. I told her we could get divorced and she could quit her job. It would save me $400 a month in health insurance and she could get SNAP, HEAP, an Obamaphone saving me another $80, use her legal blindness to get on disability. Then I could get my Audi S4 and put a 1000sq ft addition on the house and have money left over every month.

Fuck all moochers from the ghetto to 5th Ave.

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:25 | 3014998 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If you choose to make it so much tougher on yourself, why are you complaining about it? 

Doesn't the "good feeling" that comes from being so superior make up for all your minor financial hardships?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:28 | 3015195 Golden_Rule
Golden_Rule's picture

"It's either available for everyone or available for none. That is the only fair system."

 

That is exactly how it is.  If you lost your job tomorrow you'd qualify for the same bennies as your neighbor does.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:33 | 3014763 spooz
spooz's picture

Does that $60,000 a year person get employer provided healthcare?  If so, add in an extra $12,000 to their disposable income, since you added in the Medicaid (which will not be available to millions of poor people because of state's not participating in Obamacare Medicaid expansions) for the lower income folks.

Also, states are cutting back on Childcare subsidies, so low income families can't count on that. And Section 8 housing has long wait lists in many areas. Only about 30% of eligible families get this stuff.

Finally, what do you mean by this statement? 

"In it we merely explained what has become the painful reality in America: for increasingly more it is now more lucrative - in the form of actual disposable income - to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work"

People working minimum wage jobs are not sitting around doing nothing. And for those who are unemployed, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 requires:

  • Ending welfare as an entitlement program
  • Requiring recipients to begin working after two years of receiving benefits;
  • Placing a lifetime limit of five years on benefits paid by federal funds;
  • Aiming to encourage two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births.
  • Enhancing enforcement of child support. (wiki)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunit...

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:47 | 3014839 prains
prains's picture

the strategy is to take the heat off the real theft going on and point it to those easist to blame. Divide and Conquer 101 by the 1%

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:18 | 3015320 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Are you new to this site? They quite frequently cover that type of theft (Jon Corzine ring a bell, Wall Street Banksters, as an small example) but we also realize the theft is not limited to the 'capitalists' or whatever you want to call them, but they are just a part is part of the crony capitalist/government incestuous thivery ring criminal environment and both parties to it are equally guilty of the theft.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 19:18 | 3015759 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

When I read the fine print "AEI" at the bottom of the report, I rolled my eyes and knew instantly it would be some sort of diversionary propaganda. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:12 | 3014945 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

 

What fucking planet are you from? Oh, must be talking about public sector (ala  public unions, gubmit jobs) but I pay well over 85% of that $12K in my private sector job for my health care. 

Now my daughter, a research assistant on the Minnesota nipple, has a part time research job, pays $90/year for heathcare and gets 100% coverage....nice deal for her, not so great for Minnesota taxpayers I spose.

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:45 | 3015051 spooz
spooz's picture

It seems you are the one that must be from another planet.  BLS shows employee share averages about 29%. And since total family premiums average $15,745, that means add in a $11,178 subsidy, on average.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs2.t04.htm

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:33 | 3015207 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

How have you been a member of this blog for as long as you have been and still not know that any number the BLS puts out is the paper equivalent of unicorn shitting Skittles?  Quote some real numbers if you want to make a point.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:22 | 3016362 spooz
spooz's picture

I agree BLS unemployment numbers look sketchy, but why would they fudge the numbers they get on employer provided healthcare?  No political gain to be had there.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:11 | 3015301 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

And you believe that shit? Every private sector worker I know is paying AT LEAST 50% of their healthcare cost, most much closer to 75%. Maybe we are just chumps.

It's none of my business, but I'd be curious to know what type of work you do as that may help explain some of the differeing POV's you have?

If you don't want to share that is understandable, but thought it may help in understanding.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:47 | 3015673 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Thanks for the link!  One little note you left out:

"In July 2012, the Department of Health and Human Services released a memo notifying states that they are able to apply for a waiver for the work requirements of the TANF program, but only if states were also able to find credible ways to increase employment by 20%.[11] The waiver would allow states to provide assistance without having to enforce the work component of the program...[12]

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:34 | 3016402 spooz
spooz's picture

Per Factcheck.org:

"Is Obama “dropping work requirements,” as Romney’s ad claims? No. He is allowing states to change the work requirements, but he is not dropping them. The changes could be made to a variety of federal requirements, including “definitions of work activities and engagement, specified limitations, verification procedures, and the calculation of participation rates.”

A lot will depend on what a state proposes and how it is implemented. There is nothing inherent in the waivers that guts work requirements."

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:59 | 3016916 darteaus
darteaus's picture

"There is nothing inherent in the waivers that guts work requirements."

Fool.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:31 | 3014771 uno
uno's picture

I always thought it was around 40-50k tradeoff, taking into consideration FICA, clothing expenses, car expenses, daycare, lunch etc. and then putting up with traffic, bosses, stress, late hours.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:32 | 3014780 boogiedown
boogiedown's picture

Tell us, O Tyler, who exactly is making $60k /yr??? I would really like to know who in your magic chart is making that kind of money -- hardly anyone in my circle! As you are so fond of pointing out, the masses are working 2 part-time service jobs!

You rant on and on about US debt levels, but yet fail to mention that people's so-called "disposable income" is going STRAIGHT to pay off student loans, credit cards, and car loans. Why don't you talk about the TINY print on the bottom of that chart which defines "disposable income" and add the context of UNPRECEDENTED HOUSEHOLD DEBT to the conversation? (And please explain how RENT/HOUSING is factored into that calculation??)

"As quantitied, and explained by Alexander, "the single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045." "

So we are ALL prostitutes  and would sell out our dignity/reputation divest all personal responsibility for an extra $342. Guess welfare whores shouldn't be such a "sensitive topic" or all that much of a "tradgedy" or "painful reality" then, huh -- in that clinical, soulless quantification,   it's just a form of barter.

minus 60k cool points for not caring that poor people have brains and read zerohedge and -- shock --don't enjoy being bent over a table for blog hits

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:34 | 3015033 Peterus
Peterus's picture

I've read this twice and can't see anything relevant to the article. What difference does it make what you earn, or any other person? System still works like this, promoting low incomes to the point where at a few places it is in fact better to say no to a raise. Entire comment was about "how hard it is" like socialism would be implied answer to "it being hard"?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 20:15 | 3015928 boogiedown
boogiedown's picture

i think that suggesting people are willing to sell their dignity for $340 is the most relevant part. the implication appears to be that poor people have less attachment to their dignity

 the rest is just context I wish the tylers would have provided, like they do in other articles about earning (usually regarding inflation/lack of purchasing power/Black Friday shoppers, etc)   They usually discuss the heavily indebted American with almost a gleeful enthusiasm, but not a peep of it here

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 20:10 | 3015910 boogiedown
boogiedown's picture

sheesh people, i didn't say being bent over a table was unenjoyable, just not for blog hits!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:41 | 3014818 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I read "American Enterprise Institute" and realized that it's just another divide and conquer paper.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:45 | 3014834 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Yup; no need to actually read or think about any content.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:43 | 3014824 darteaus
darteaus's picture

This has failed in America before.  When the Pilgrims landed, they tried socialism/communism.  Roughly half died the first year.

Second year: if you grew it, then you owned it.  Thanksgiving was the result.

"So they began to think how they might raise as much corn as they could, and obtain a better crop than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in misery. At length, after much debate of things, the Governor (with the advice of the chiefest amongst them) gave way that they should set corn every man for his own particular, and in that regard trust to themselves; in all other things to go on in the general way as before. And so assigned to every family a parcel of land, according to the proportion of their number, for that end, only for present use (but made no division for inheritance) and ranged all boys and youth under some family. This had very good success, for it made all hands very industrious."

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:31 | 3015379 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

.

so assigned to every family a parcel of land, according to the proportion of their number, for that end,

ahhh, land - freely assigned, once confiscated from others.

and then there was wealth. . .

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:43 | 3015606 darteaus
darteaus's picture

And the others came into posession how?  Did they just show up, start hunting and never fight over territory?

Description of how the Powhatan Indians treated others:  "Scalping and slow death by torture were reserved for enemies and trespassers."

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:32 | 3016574 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

obviously there were hundreds of tribes, and territorial fighting.

however, there was also a completely different mind-set too,

The President in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. But how can you buy or sell the sky? the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?  


Will you teach your children what we have taught our children? That the earth is our mother? What befalls the earth befalls all the sons of the earth.

 

This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. All things are connected like the blood that unites us all. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/seattle.html

so much myth, so little time. . .

 


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:45 | 3014831 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Democraps/Entitlement, campaign slogan for the "mid term elections" in 2014. "Take this job and shove it..."

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:47 | 3014840 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

no offense to the hedge but this has been the reality for years. it's obvious to anyone that most companies don't pay more than welfare so what's the point of working?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:01 | 3014892 spooz
spooz's picture

Duh. Because you can't GET welfare if you are able bodied and don't work?  Its been that way since 1996, but people are still misinformed about the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.

Oh, and if you are "lucky" enough to qualify for Medicaid, you will be stuck with substandard health care.  


Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:04 | 3014909 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

LOL....yeah, not hard to get around that.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:24 | 3014997 spooz
spooz's picture

No getting around the substandard health care and housing (if you win the lottery/make it to the top of the list), but please expound on how you get around the workfare requirments.  Maybe you should add to the wiki, since there is no discussion of it there:

"The TANF program does not offer benefits sufficient to lift recipients out of poverty, and despite a strong economy, the majority of families who have moved off the TANF rolls have remained in poverty. Considerations of another traditional economic goal, reduction of inequality, only makes matters worse. Welfare reform has coincided with massive growth in income and wealth disparities; it has done little to slow the expansion of inequality and may have actually accelerated the trend. Has welfare reform created job opportunities for the poor? Has it promoted wages that allow low-wage workers to escape poverty? In both of these areas, the economic story remains the same: we have little evidence that reform has produced achievements that warrant the label of success." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunit...

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:35 | 3015215 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Ahh, but soon, we will ALL have substandard health care.

Forward!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:37 | 3015219 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

"You didn't [get around] that. Somebody else did that for you."

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/12/obama-guts-welfare-reform/

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:48 | 3015248 boogiedown
boogiedown's picture

Yes, "workfare" made it a bit harder for leeches to game the system (many still find ways around it). But of course the stereotypes persist. Most of these commenters seem be just talking out of their asses -- they do not know anyone actually on welfare

 

They will argue all day that the corporate welfare by the rich is hurting the middle class, govt welfare to the poor is hurting the middle class, the "I pay my taxes and everyone else is getting off scott-free" class wafare mentality. But the concept of working poor in the US escapes them -- their idea of tragedy is working hard, paying taxes and then not being able to afford something on amazon or to upgrade the car. They cannot grasp the idea of people who work for $8.50/hr, cannot afford lunch, and go home to sleep in their car.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 21:44 | 3016153 lead salad
lead salad's picture

He must have been neck deep in the One's ass to have heard about this.....

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:47 | 3016424 spooz
spooz's picture

If the "One" is the head of the D half of the duopoly, you are sadly misinformed.  If I saw anybody pumping him on here, I would bust that propaganda just as quickly. Here is the something I have read about O and the Ds that I agree with, written by Chris Hedges:

"The presidential election exposed the liberal class as a corpse. It fights for nothing. It stands for nothing. It is a useless appendage to the corporate state. It exists not to make possible incremental or piecemeal reform, as it originally did in a functional capitalist democracy; instead it has devolved into an instrument of personal vanity, burnishing the hollow morality of its adherents. Liberals, by voting for Barack Obama, betrayed the core values they use to define themselves—the rule of law, the safeguarding of civil liberties, the protection of unions, the preservation of social welfare programs, environmental accords, financial regulation, a defiance of unjust war and torture, and the abolition of drone wars. The liberal class clung desperately during the long nightmare of this political campaign to one or two issues, such as protecting a woman’s right to choose and gender equality, to justify its complicity in a monstrous evil. This moral fragmentation—using an isolated act of justice to define one’s self while ignoring the vast corporate assault on the nation and the ecosystem along with the pre-emptive violence of the imperial state—is moral and political capitulation. It fails to confront the evil we have become."

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/once_again_--_death_of_the_liberal_c...

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:39 | 3016410 spooz
spooz's picture

Heritage Foundation is biased.  Read what nonpartisan Factcheck.org says about it.  Funny thing how Heritage Foundation decided that states rights weren't so important when the Ds support them.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:11 | 3014943 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bullshit...I know a lot of people who get around that. Then they work for cash under the table to boot.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:17 | 3014964 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

ah give spooz a break, either a troll or some kid just out of public university that doesn't know how easily the system is scammed. One person I know, schoolteacher, kept complaining of a sore shoulder and finally got a doctor to write her up for SSD. So, her shoulder is good enough to take that disability money and enrich the native Americans at their casino's. Shoulder doesn't bother her then.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:34 | 3015031 spooz
spooz's picture

I consider myself a propaganda specialist.  I see it, I call it.  Doesn't matter if its D or R, if that's where you're coming from.  Its all the same.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:49 | 3015077 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

A very close relative with 5 kids makes a comfortable living working for cash under the table, in top of that she collects disability at the ripe old age of 40. They are now talking about getting a divorce so they can increase their benefits. I'll bet you I can name a dozen similar stories.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:58 | 3015103 spooz
spooz's picture

Disability fraud is a state problem that needs better enforcement.  Doesn't indict the entire safety net, though.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:12 | 3015147 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is a difference between a safety net and a way of life which you seem to be advocating.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:32 | 3015395 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Trust me, those of us who see it as a safety net get pissed at the corruption too.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:34 | 3015210 cartonero
cartonero's picture

That "close relative" wouldn't be your wife, would she?  What's keeping you from turning her in?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:07 | 3015279 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No...... We work for a living.,,.. both of us, but don't worry we will succeed pulling the government, bankers, and welfare queens along with us.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:39 | 3015224 cartonero
cartonero's picture

Oops. dup

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:38 | 3015427 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your "close relative" with 5 kids AND a marriage partner getting scant mention, you should turn 'em in, may be a reward for it?

could even get her picture up here on the ZH blog - see something, say something!!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:00 | 3015478 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Sorry I'm not going to be the uncle who got mommy and daddy arrested for fraud. It's not the kids fault their parents are taking advantage of the system. Besides I'll leave the see something say something for the nazi goons.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 16:48 | 3018422 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

was merely pointing out the relative you wrote of working under the table, with 5 kids, and benefits ALSO had a partner that was barely mentioned in your post, which kinda channeled the outrage onto. . . her.

it's a popular tactic when arguing here. . . was just balancing the example by bringing in the "other freeloader" for a more complete illustration.

but yeah, "nazi goons" - I'd agree with that.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 19:05 | 3015720 boogiedown
boogiedown's picture

yeah, working under the table for cash -- not such a brilliant scam to collect $$$ without working if you are actually WORKING

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:54 | 3014859 baldski
baldski's picture

Anything put out by the American Enterprise Institute is funded by the oligarchs and is usually full of right wingnuttery. I do not trust anything from these havens of rightwingworld, heritage foundation, AEI, Cato, etc. 

Read Supreme court justice Powell's letter to the Republican party. He started all these think tanks off.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:49 | 3015472 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I think you and I pissed off the same 4 neo-cons on this board by pointing that out.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:55 | 3014864 Dawnofinsanity
Dawnofinsanity's picture

North American Scum... It used to be that Canada was the socialist red state above you guys.  We had fewer companies per capita and more people on social assistance per capita and far more people working in government.  With the shift away from manufacturing the US is forced to become more socialistic as many of these jobs are gone. We've seen entire neighborhoods abandoned in the US as people chase jobs across the country.  Throw in a sickness in there and it doesn't take much to land on social assistance.  At the same time people have become more lazy and less willing to do what it takes to work - the sense of entitlement that we've learned from a prior generation.  Our parents always wanted more for their kids and somehow that concept of work was lost. 

Meanwhile, Canada has had to become more inventive creating more jobs through entrepeneurship because we lost corporations long ago.  However, we have little manufacturing so we rely on resources.  When those are gone we will be lined up at the social welfare trough .   

The problem continues to be that if you add all of the government workers to the people collecting off the system so it is far closer to 1 to 1.  Factor the cost of implementing programs as a cost and the pensions given to public service workers that the private sector has been stripped of and the ratio is even worse.  Hence we need the continued printing of the monthly trillion or whatever that number needs to be for November.  Likewise, in Canada we still aren't far off and we continue to print. 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:44 | 3015445 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

.

if you add all of the government workers to the people collecting off the system so it is far closer to 1 to 1.

not often mentioned, the decreasing ratio between those on benefits, and those monitoring/awarding those same benefits - particularly since those who name things started calling their peeps "customers"

and as we all have heard, "the customer is always right" and "value-able" to the corporation. . .

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:00 | 3014881 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

dup

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 14:59 | 3014882 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Fuck Work!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:00 | 3014883 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

better title might have been "1.25 Sucka's per Suckee in U.S.'

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:03 | 3014904 denny69
denny69's picture

I just wish the AEI would do a paper on the F-35 fighter plane. The military wants 2200 of them and I just read that each plane costs $300 million and now that the Chinese have an aircraft carrier I can't imagine how much we'll throwing down the shitter for military junk that provides us absolutely nothing as far as jobs and infrastructure maintenance goes. I'll be waiting for the outrage; but I won't be holding my breath. I love AEI - always attack the most vulnerable and weakest members of society. Shame on them!

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:25 | 3015003 Peterus
Peterus's picture

"always attack the most vulnerable"

Are these findings lies ? Is it an attack or is it description? Anyway, defending righteous and totaly justified spending on social (left) and on "defence" (right) led to a compromise, where now both social and military spending in USA is bloated to insane levels. After cutting budget to Pentagon, will it be a healthy situation to rob productive people and subsidize unproductive to the degree that's shown in these graphs?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:43 | 3015052 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Chinese already have all the designs and avionics for the F-35 through loose defense contractors and political correctness. 

The Chinese can probably produce a plane for a fraction of the price.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:46 | 3015462 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

whoa. . . are you implying that the "defense contractors" are padding their profits??

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:51 | 3016834 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

That falls apart mid-flight.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:10 | 3014935 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Not every welfare recipient is a lazy bum. I've known more than one who kept busy selling drugs, selling counterfeit goods, working in the sex trade, or committing property crimes instead of just sitting at home watching T.V. and collecting a check.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:18 | 3014969 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

So let's look at the picture for people getting welfare plus income from the underground economy.  It's a relatively bright picture in some respects.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:51 | 3015082 spooz
spooz's picture

Right. They get maybe $200 a month in SNAP, substandard health care and a good chance at getting to get the real free ride as part of the prison population, if they live that long. 

Good times.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:12 | 3015148 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Not everybody knows how to play the game, I'm sure.

They also get an Obama phone.  At least.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:20 | 3015170 spooz
spooz's picture

So tire of hearing the "Obama phone" meme.  You could at least check Snopes before you repeat propaganda spewed by certain corporate media outlets:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 17:49 | 3015471 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

couldn't agree more.

"obamaphone" is the new ZH "bitchez" -  gonna be a tough one to shake, election year bitterness is embedded. . .

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:12 | 3015568 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Obamaphone is real.  I've seen the program.  I've seen the storefront where they are handed out.  I've seen an actual Obama phone.  I was aware of it a year before Rush Limbaugh.  It's a flat out give away.  I understand people have to eat, live somewhere that is heated and have medical attention.  They do not need a free phone and the service should be terminated immediately.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:13 | 3016335 spooz
spooz's picture

The only free phones are those available from the FCC's Lifeline Assistance benefit.  Read up on why Reagan thought it was a good idea when he set the program up in the 1980s (ie, it is not Obama's program, douchebag):

"Owing to the fact that people generally need phones to apply for jobs and enroll their children in school, and elderly citizens need to be able to call their families and emergency services, the government decided in the '80s (under Ronald Reagan, no less) to institute the Lifeline Assistance program. In 1996, Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act into law, which offered either cell phones or landline services to low-income Americans.

Today, 38 states, one of which is Ohio, participate in the Lifeline program. If you live in one of those locales and your income is at or below 135 percent of the poverty line, or if you qualify for certain benefit programs like Medicaid and TANF, you can apply for a free cell phone that offers you 250 minutes of talk time per month. The people who are getting these phones aren't getting iPhones or other smartphones; they're often people in urban or rural areas who are being supplied with basic cell phones so they can call the hospital when they're sick, or receive calls if there's a problem with their child at school."

http://gawker.com/5947133/the-obama-phone-program-has-nothing-to-do-with...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:07 | 3016926 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The program under Reagan was far more limited.  It applied to land lines only.  Clinton and Obama and the states have expanded it far beyond the original mandate.  Looking at the federal guidelines does NOT give the whole picture.  Depending on the state, the discount can be much larger. The "discount" can be applied to any kind of phone, including an I-phone. 

Just like Afghanistan is now Mr Obama's war, not Mr. Bush's war, this program is now Mr. Obama's program, thus "ObamaPhone".

Give them a roll of quarters every month and a map of pay phones.  That should keep them in touch.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 16:34 | 3021750 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

maybe it applied to "land lines" because cell phones had yet to be mass produced for market.

particularly ones with embedded tracking.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:33 | 3022632 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You are correct, sir.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:38 | 3016580 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

wow, thanks for clearing that up for me - I was wondering where that got started, makes sense it's the RushL's verbiage.

now whenever I see anyone using that here, I'll just *nod* at yet another ditto-head meme repeater. . .

as to the phones, how on earth is .gov gonna trace these folks for future. . . *cough*

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 22:54 | 3016274 technicalanarchy
technicalanarchy's picture

So tired of people checking Snopes before searching on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

Got my 85 year old mother-in-law has had one (obama phone) for several years for emergencies. To save money on her phone bill she has Comcast which lasts about 4 hours after a power outage. The cell phone was super crappy so I called and got her a new one. Guess what! The contract is with a company that has the call center off shore. I'm guessing India. The phone is made in China so really the net benefit to the US is someone gets airtime.

That's the way it is on everything the net benefit is outgoing all the fucking time. We are going to be begging Ethiopia for dirt by the time this is all over.

Recently got her a wheel chair she beyond qualifies for one from medicare, could have got one on Ebay THIS FUCKING chair!!! New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Medline-K1-Lightweight-Folding-Manual-Wheelchair-/261133684970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cccc7d0ea $123 free shipping. I thought about it and went with medicare and medicare pays $98 a month for the $123 Ebay chair (exact same), but it is rented through a LOCAL pharmacy, I do kinda feel we won on that one cause the money does stay local.

My daughter graduated from college a couple of years ago with a dual degree in wait for it..... anthropology and French. I warned her, but she had saved and worked and help here and there from us and family and some scholarships she got out debt free. Not even a car payment. Shes still driving the same car she had in high school dragging down a cool $11.53 an hour with no benefits as an assistant at a law firm. I warned her about her choice in degree but you gotta follow your heart right? She's gonna have to get a masters or a PHD to have any hope of making either degree pay anything more. I think with a masters in cultural anthropology she could get in the CIA.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 23:03 | 3016314 spooz
spooz's picture

Right.  Youtube is such a reliable source. Right up there with Drudge and Rush Limbaugh, one of whom probably clued you in on the Youtube video in the first place.

If you don't believe Snopes (idiot), how about Forbes? Or do you only believe what you see on Youtube, shit for brains?

"The bottom line is that there is free phone assistance available to those who qualify but it is not an Obama administration program. Taxpayers do support the program but not through federal income taxes. And despite the screaming lady in the video, eligibility doesn’t hinge on Social Security, disability or food stamps; there’s no “buy one bag of chips, get an Obama phone free” promotion. Just because a woman holding a sign gets a microphone in her face doesn’t make her statements true."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2012/09/28/crazy-for-obama-...

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:02 | 3016448 technicalanarchy
technicalanarchy's picture

I was trying to be funny asshat. You're in a worse mood than even I am tonight. I have found that Snopes isn't always correct either, just to wreck what's left of your night. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:23 | 3016495 spooz
spooz's picture

Sorry. My bad. I wasn't looking for sarcasm, but see it now. 

No excuse, but I was too exhausted from responding to "Monedas" to appreciate it, and I wasn't expecting it.

Went back and took the time to really read your response, and I get it.  Its so hard to tell kids not to follow their dreams, to get pharmacy or engineering degree, when people with those degrees can't find entry level jobs either. With the high cost of education and the burden of student loans, it no longer pays to get an education for many people. But how can college educated parents advise their kids not to bother going to college, that working a waiter/waitress job with good tips may be a better idea? I have such a bleak outlook on the future, I wish I could see some hope.  But I gave up on hopey changy around the time Obamacare was passed.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:49 | 3016587 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hey guys, full moon tomorrow, the grouchiness always precedes. . .

the free phones are as you'd expect - crap monitoring devices for anyone not clued up enough to avoid 'em.  just like JPMorgan's SNAP cards record all your food purchases (demographics), and USBank's EBT card does the same for other .gov pixel awards - it's all fodder for the new jobs being created to observe your every breath - we'll all have multiple human drones to babysit us 24/7. . .

sarc?  mebbe not.

take it easy dudes, truly.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 07:53 | 3016837 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

 I think you missed the part where they don't have to spend their lives working. How much is that worht in dollars?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:59 | 3015104 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

I know of an old asian lady who collects welfare and gets free housing... her huge extended family is all collecting checks. As the matriarch of the family, she drives an new Cadillac and works diligently hawking counterfeit DVD's and purses at the local laundromats and pizza shops.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:48 | 3015249 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Actually, a lot of the "welfare bums" are some of the best entrepreneurs around!

They drive better cars than me, eat better, and live in nicer homes.

Hmmmmmm

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:21 | 3014980 Ribeye
Ribeye's picture

We're all Euro-weenies now, my American friends,

Welcome to hell!

Where are we all gonna escape to now?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:22 | 3014985 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

The 'Puerto Rican's' figured out the system... and how to use it  in the late 60's--- it all started in the greatest welfare state in the country... 'Massachusetts', and metastasized exponentially throughout the country! [next up n.y., n.j., all of n.e.,...westward-ho!]

'Knowing How to Work the System'

the free-government money flowed like a faucet into the politicians money-fountains... 

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:24 | 3014992 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

sorry 2x post

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:52 | 3015054 Monedas
Monedas's picture

People who have to work in the private sector are the new niggers !  Flee or start a slave rebellion !  Don't pay your taxes ! Don't be a chump ! Tax Genocide is upon us !

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:50 | 3015071 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Gaza is a 50% donor based economy !  Earleflorida, I'll bet Pwerto Reeko is much higher than 50% donor based ?  Haiti makes baseballs ! Yen, do you miss me yet ?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:52 | 3015086 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

We spend 90K+ hours at work in a lifetime............

http://t.co/JzduZIy3

yet, median incomes are down............

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/27/median_wealth_of_u_s_households_lowest_s...

No wonder govt assistance is up.

And the thing is: some of you sheep on here keep flouting the whole "takers" line from good ole Faux News....where I'd BET, most of these recieptients on welfare, medicaid, disability, and other govt assistence actually are WORKING. 

And THAT is a bigger issue than a bunch of loafers on the lam cashing checks from Uncle Sam.

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