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The Cost Of Kidding Yourself

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Authored by Mark McHugh via Across The Street blog,

Five years ago, every American would have considered a trillion-dollar budget deficit a national tragedy.  If you believe the CNBC parrot show, NOT having a trillion-dollar deficit is now a sure sign of the Apocalypse.  I speak of course of the cleverly dubbed “Fiscal Cliff,” which panicked CNBC apologists are required to mention no less than 5,000 times a day.  We’re told ad nauseam that going over the cliff will drag the US into recession.  Here’s what we’re not told: The US has been in recession 9 of the last 10 years.  It’s in recession this year, and no matter what CNBC’s financial terrorists say or the idiots on Capital Hill decide, it will most certainly be in recession in 2013.

Creating the illusion of economic growth is easy if you can print money.  It’s a prank you can play on an entire country.  Cut the value of the currency in half and the economy’s size will appear to double.  If it doesn’t, you’re in recession (whether you know it or not).   Cavemen probably understood this concept better than America’s best economic minds.

The only way to accurately measure changes in a nation’s economy is to do so relative to the world (see Notes for non-nerds below before protesting).  According to the World Bank, the U.S. represented 31.8% of the world’s economic activity in 2001.  By the end of 2011, that share had dropped to 21.6%, meaning America’s slice of the world economy is 32% smaller than it was a decade ago, and getting smaller every day.  Note that America’s housing bubble did nothing to boost the U.S. on the global stage.

As horrific as these results are, they’re better than Japan’s, whose “lost decade” proved only to be prologue for its “lost-er decade.”  Japan’s share of the world economy fell more than 35% from 2001 to 2011 (literally worse than Zimbabwe) and has now shriveled 54% from its peak.  But Japan’s real collapse did not coincide with the bursting of its stock and real estate bubbles in 1990 and 1991 respectively.  The decline actually began in 1995 when policymakers allowed government debt to exceed 90% of GDP (a milestone the U.S. quietly passed in 2010). 

The more they “fixed” it, the more it broke.  17 years later, the only thing Japan has proved is that smart Japanese economists are about as real as Godzilla.  Time and time again, the country has chosen collapse over admitting failure. On November 19, 2012, Bloomberg reported, “The Japanese government will spend 1 trillion yen ($12.3B) on a second round of fiscal stimulus as it tries to revive an economy at risk of sliding into recession.”  It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

The United Kingdom gets third place in the 2001-2011 major economies’ “Race to Oblivion”, although with a less than 3.5% share of world GDP it’s hard to call this a major economy with a straight face anymore.  While the U.K. printed its way to 24% loss in world GDP, France and Brazil both passed the nation where an actual troy pound of sterling silver now costs about 235 “pounds sterling”.  With government debt expected to reach 88.7% of GDP in 2012, once-Great Britain will soon be seated at the kids’ table at economic summits, if it gets invited at all.

All three of these countries are in death spirals for the same reason:  They believe that they have the ability to avoid recession by simply printing their own money.  As America’s 100-year numbskull (and current Federal Reserve Chairman) Ben Bernanke once mused:

“…the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.”

True dat, Ben….unless there’s “cost” associated with turning the nation’s currency into the world’s laughing stock….

Oh wait, there is.  So just for fun, let’s project the last ten years growth rates forward another ten years:

And there you have the real New World Order (sorry Freemasons).  In ten years China’s economy will be bigger than those of the U.S., Japan, and the U.K. combined.  What are the chances they will drink the same kool-aid we are presently guzzling?  Will they need, or even tolerate, the opinions spewed by our pundits and politicians?  And more importantly, will the U.S. dollar still be the world’s reserve currency?

Being a war-mongering banana republic isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, and despite what CNBC’s fast-money fuckwits may think, the stock market is not America’s report card.  Wall Street is the white elephant that America can’t afford to feed anymore and China doesn’t have the slightest interest in buying (just take a look at the Shanghai Composite).   Continuing to yield to its tantrums will undoubtedly destroy us.

Fun Facts:  Total U.S. GDP growth in the 20th century was $9.93 Trillion, while the  government accumulated $5.5 Trillion in debt.  In the 21st century, the US has borrowed $10.7T and has a grand total of $5.30T in GDP growth.

***

Notes for nerds: Most of the calculations presented were derived from data compiled by the World Bank which can be viewed or downloaded here.   World GDP was set to 100% and each country’s percentage determined simply by dividing by world GDP.   Japan’s debt as a percentage of GDP from Fred (225% was used for 2011).  Estimate of U.K.’s 2012 Debt/GDP from here.  U.S. GDP stats from USgovernmentspending.com (2012 estimate adjusted for 2% growth).  US debt from Debt to the Penny.

Notes for non-nerds:  How much World GDP changes from one year to the next depends entirely on what is being used to measure it.  For example, World GDP expanded by 109% from 2002 to 2011 in USD terms, but contracted (-59%) in terms of gold.  Using the Euro would produce different results (+59%), as would using barrels of oil (you figure it out).  Looking at countries relative to World GDP is an honest measure of their changes.  To say that Japan is still growing (at least in terms of Yen), but everyone else is growing much, much faster in terms of Yen distorts the reality that  Japan is undeniably shrinking relative to the world (no matter what currency is used).

 


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Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Propaganda 101 - Control the language and you control the mind. (See Edward Bernays).

<Everything else follows from this simple and effective concept.>

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

.

"Five years ago, every American would have considered a trillion-dollar budget deficit a national tragedy."

First sentence of the article.  I consider it a national tragedy even now.  A national disgrace really.  But so few care.  Bernays must be seizing the agenda...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You can plug so many different 'things' into that type of statement. For example, ten years ago (nearly) every American would have considered (US) state sponsored torture a national tragedy. Now........meh......not so much.

<If you do not respect the rights of others, soon enough others will not respect yours.>

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Soros and his boy Obama LOVE those charts. After that is what it is all about now isn't it...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Hillary Clinton: US Losing Information War to Alternative Media

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyjnEm8DZkI&feature=youtu.be

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:07 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yeahhhh, bitchez....they will shut the interWebZ down, piece by piece.

Although 95% of what is found on the internet is filler, the actual % of truth in that remaining 5% of substance is waaaay too much truthiness for them to counter, and the biggest threat to their official fairy tales, spun thusly and daily,

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Shocker
Shocker's picture

Oh you definately been kidding youself, if you think the economy is a ok.

There has been a decline for several years now. Debts rising, companies going away, GDP slipping, Importing everything. Its a slow process but its getting to a point now

http://www.dailyjobcuts.com

-

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Let's just call mainstream media what it is and be done with it;

Brainwashing Mind Control.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:06 | Link to Comment Short Memories
Short Memories's picture

Cool! AU will have a bigger GDP than the UK !!

Classic!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:16 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

And Canada too! Can't wait.  I'm thinkin' Canada is underestimated as there are a lot of mega projects that are in the pipeline. If world GDP goes up as projected those projects will be required. Included: pipeline for oilsands to west coast and giant liquified natural gas ports on west coast. (Already underway..btw) 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:08 | Link to Comment Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

"The Cost of Kidding Yourself"... I like how Ben Bernanke is the first 2 tags.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

America’s best economic minds.

Must be a new term Obozo the corrupt banksters' stooge coined for "accomplices".

 

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 06:57 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

The joke is on us. They're turning the U.S. into a 3rd world country right in front of us, in our faces, in broad daylight, and no one has the balls to stop the Bankerticians.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:26 | Link to Comment hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

@Michaelwiseguy # 3018649

Great link!  This segment pretty much sums it up:  There are other points of view, and those points of view are profoundly damgaging to a country that believes its point of view is the only point of view, or should be the only point of view.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:53 | Link to Comment Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Seeing as a VERY big chunk of Aussie GDP is either mining related, or "Housing price bubble" related, and seeing as both of these major contributors are "doing it very tough" right now, I'd not be cheering in the streets just yet . . . . . (especially in mind of today's $5 billion cut in Rio Tinto's spending plans for next year)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 05:34 | Link to Comment awakening
awakening's picture

I don't think the person that compiled the above report was trying to be that accurate with regards to the Australian economy (I've already posted my thoughts elsewhere but in short my opinion is that we would all be pining for the good old days of 2012 come 2022).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:56 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Japan is successfully servicing old debt with new debt, at near zero interest rates.

This will go on indefinately.

What's the rumpus...???

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:05 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Probably /sarc but

This will go on indefinately.

 

Until it doesn't. Things always go great right before they go terribly wrong.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:28 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Definitely sarc. And well played.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Nothing can go wrong.  The U.S. owes between $60 trillion and $100 trillion in direct debt and obligations.  Current inflation is 5-10% which means we are extinguishing the debt at the rate of $5 trillion or more per year.  We can easily run deficits up to that amount with no problem.  The debt just goes away.  Wheee.  We're all saved.

/sarc

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:38 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Any way I say this MDBoGus, this is going to sound wrong...

The RumpUS is in the PumpUS.

Or is that the PumpUS is in the RumpUS?

AS CD said above, it's all about the language. More important than money control.

Lex meant letter in Greek.

Lex evolved to mean LAW in Latin.

Lex Romana WAS un-PAX Romana.

ori

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/the-deep-perversion-of-language/

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:03 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Fuck 'em. Let em do it. This would, of course bankrupt the State. Impossible to tax with 0 income, 0 imports, 0 exports, 0 sales.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:41 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Pull up almost any neighborhood on Zillow and you see hundreds of houses for sale, many in foreclosure or pre-foreclosure. These do not include the thousands of new houses for sale still flooding the market such as niorht of my old neighborhood where the builders are adding over 6,000 boxes to the already huge oversupply.

This does not include the 12,000,000 boxes in shadow inventory.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | Link to Comment drunkenlout
drunkenlout's picture

Hils, you lose because you are not truthier.  It only costs big bucks to suppress truth.  You're spending 'em, without getting the (ugly) result. Letting low-cost reporters tell the truth is not expensive!  Being an evil, lying bitch is as expensive as we can make it for you.  

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The public needs to wake up and begin protecting their assets. IE buying gold and silver. I say good luck to that though.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.ca/

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:45 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

But dey give me this phone......

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

That Obamaphone video never gets old. E'body in Cleveland got Obamaphone!!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:26 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

"The politician, acting on a modified Keynesian maxim that in the long run we are all out of office, does not care if his successful cure of unemployment is bound to produce more unemployment in the future.  The politicians who will be blamed for it will not be those who created the inflation but those who stopped it.  No worse trap could have been set for a democratic system in which the government is forced to act on the beliefs that the people think to be true.  Our only hope for a stable money is indeed now to find a way to protect money from politics."  -F.A. Hayek

When Hayek wrote these words in 1976, there was only one difference than the way things are today--namely, that instead of trying to create employment, politicians are concerned only with lining their pockets before all hell breaks loose.  The only thing I know for sure is that the longer the trap goes unsprung, the worse off the poor animal will be who gets caught in its jaws. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:31 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Fuck Boehner, does that dipshit believe that if he acts MORE like a democrat, that he can win back the Latino and College kid crowd in the next election???  Sorry GOP, the Dem's have a corner on that market and frankly if you assholes dont pull your heads out of your Globalist Corporate asses, you'll not only never win another national election, you might not have a fucking party!! 

You fuck ups think you didnt win, because you weren't more latino like (whatever the hell that means) or the college kids thought you weren't "cool" enough? YOU FUCKING LOST BECAUSE NOBADY FUCKING BELIEVES ANYMORE, YOUR THE PARTY OF SMALL GOVERNMENT, LOW REGULATIONS, LOW TAXES, AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!! 

Mark my words, you dumbfucks will lose the house by 50 seats in 2014, if your answer to getting your asses kicked, is completely throw in the towel and pull the curtain back, on the fact we live in a one party system (Globalist Corporate Party) and start acting MORE like democrats then you already do!!

What you better do, is make an announcement that your no longer interested in what people do with their own fucking bodies and in their own bedrooms, embrace ending the phony war on drugs and the trillions in spending it cost, tell the democrats to go fuck themselves on higher taxes and more spending, announce that your dead against the federal reserve policies of the last 5 years and support a full audit of the Fed and announce that if Bernanke doesnt stop devaluing the US Dollar, you'll wage war aginst that motherfucker until his term is up and then threaten to arrest that cocksucker the minute he is a private citizen again! Tell the Arab Oil Cartel to go fuck themselves too, embrace renewable energy and American natural gas as America's new energy policy, and support a shrinking quota on importing of foreign oil over the next 10 years until we are importing zero. Tell China, your not in support of anymore trade agreements that dont have equal access clauses in them, meaning if you want to export to America a trillion dollars worth of cheap shit, thats fine, but American Companies will also get a trillion dollars worth of exports to your consumers, etc etc........ and I'm sure i could go on for another hour, but you get the point!

You GOP assholes do this and not only would you save your sorry ass party from extinction, you would fucking win the Senate, keep the House, and win the Presidency in 2016!!  You don't........and you wont even be a national party by 2016!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

down arrows on the above post = retards

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:44 | Link to Comment I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

 I'M PRINTING THAT ONE!!!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

I am going into the WHIG business!!!!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 06:03 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

It's fairly obvious that any party could take 80% of the vote by honestly addressing our problems in a logical, freedom-oriented Ron Paul like manner.  But the bankers won't allow that and they run the show.  So it remains a show -- a clown show -- that turns half of us away from bothering to vote.

If we want our freedom and country back, we literally have to remove elite/business dominance of politics.  Since a system like that has never existed and never will, each of us must protect ourselves the best we can -- GOLD BITCHEZ.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

down arrows on the above post = retards

 

Those who oppose any kind of planned economy (embrace renewable energy and American natural gas as America's new energy policy, and support a shrinking quota on importing of foreign oil over the next 10 years until we are importing zero) are retards?

And does embracing "American natural gas as America's new energy policy" mean that the state of Pennsylvania will continue to use environmental regulations to allow drillers to poison the wells of my neighbors?

 

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection produces incomplete lab reports and uses them to dismiss complaints that Marcellus Shale gas development operations have contaminated residential water supplies and made people sick, according to court documents.

 

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/lawmaker-challenges-pa-d...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

People who get sick from the effects of fracking make me sick.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:26 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Ok dude, I understand we don't live in a perfect world, but WHAT is your answer to a one trillion dollar military budget, that primarily goes to protecting oil interest in the middle east, its shipping lanes, and its governments!! Another 300 billion dollars a year in wealth exporting that individuals pay to fill their tanks in this Country on imported oil???  And don't give me that bullshit about domestic production in Canada, Mexico, and the US! We have already started exporting oil, because the shit wont go below 90 dollars a barrel with no inflation, its a finite resource man, you either find a competing alternative or we are all fucking dead! Ask the Debears Diamond people about that shit! It doesn't matter how much there "REALLY" is, its about controlling the supply and monopolizing production, transportaion, and distribution!  The oil industry did that shit 40 years ago, they decide what the fuck you pay, not the free market! And as more oil is discovered, it will be not reported, or manipulated as too keep the current price structures in place, or higher prefferably for them!  Its a vampire industry, dont kill the subject, but just keep them weak enough, so they can keep sucking that blood (money) from you forever! 

If you dont like renewables or Nat gas, then fucking come up with something else, because the oil industry needs a a real threat to its exsistence, anything else and where all dead! 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

Ok dude, I understand we don't live in a perfect world, but WHAT is your answer to a one trillion dollar military budget, that primarily goes to protecting oil interest in the middle east, its shipping lanes, and its governments!!

 

My answer would be to end it.

 

Another 300 billion dollars a year in wealth exporting that individuals pay to fill their tanks in this Country on imported oil???

 

Those foreigners would be wise to convert that revenue to tangible goods.

 

 And don't give me that bullshit about domestic production in Canada, Mexico, and the US! We have already started exporting oil, because the shit wont go below 90 dollars a barrel with no inflation, its a finite resource man, you either find a competing alternative or we are all fucking dead!

 

Planned economics impedes sustainable development.

 

Ask the Debears Diamond people about that shit! It doesn't matter how much there "REALLY" is, its about controlling the supply and monopolizing production, transportaion, and distribution!  The oil industry did that shit 40 years ago, they decide what the fuck you pay, not the free market! And as more oil is discovered, it will be not reported, or manipulated as too keep the current price structures in place, or higher prefferably for them!  Its a vampire industry, dont kill the subject, but just keep them weak enough, so they can keep sucking that blood (money) from you forever!

 

All that is done courtesy of the government working on behalf of their constituents in the energy industry. That's the heart of central planning.

 

If you dont like renewables or Nat gas, then fucking come up with something else, because the oil industry needs a a real threat to its exsistence, anything else and where all dead!

 

No one can just "come up with" technological innovation on demand. That's the market's job.

The market's respect for private property is opposed by those in government who use legislation and regulation to socialize the costs of various types of energy. Government says that private well owners must drink poison so that gas companies and customers can gain greater benefits than they would otherwise enjoy. Get government out of the economic subsidy and regulation business and the true costs and benefits of various industries will be revealed. Then we'll know what's really economical and what is not and individuals can make decisions based on reality.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:43 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Boy that sounds so pretty, I almost thought I was back in college, listening to my professors describe the world of economics in clean and perfect terms, theory at its finest!!!

Now here's the cold hard truth about the streets and the jungle we live in, otherwise known as the oil industry!! There is no fucking free market in the global oil industry! Here's some of the top oil producing and exporting Countries on Earth:
Saudi Ariabia - Theocratic Dictatorship
Iran - Theocratic Dictatorship
Venezuela - Socialist Democracy
Mexico - Drug cartel controlled oligarchy
Russia - Mafia controlled obligarchy
Canada- parliamentary democracy
USA - one party democracy

Now of those players, who's up for free market capitalism and innovation providing solutions, thru its natural evolutionary tract, under free market principles and conditions!! That's fucking fantasy man, in order for a free market to work properly, you have to first have a universal buyin by all the interested parties, on the conditions and principles, that everyone must obey!! Without this buyin, your theory is rubbish! This is also why global capitalism as its sold to us everyday, is fucking rubbish too!! Americans are playing this game with one hand tied behind their backs, and we can't figure out why we are getting our asses kicked on a daily basis!!!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:27 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Then the answer is obvious. Find your self a sugar daddy like Obama or Romney and get busy kissing his ass. That's the alternative for those who refuse to support the freedom of the individual. Enjoy!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:20 | Link to Comment TwoHoot
TwoHoot's picture

+ 1000

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:21 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Rewnewable Life..2016!!!  Love it!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:26 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

.....or become better bullshitters.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:12 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Okay, I follow you on most of your points...but where do you come up with the need for an "equal access clause" with China?

In a free market, there is no such need.  It's like requiring equal access between a grocery store and its patrons. 

This seems to stem from the fallacy that exports are better than imports.  Perhaps you could benefit from reading Henry Hazlitt's classic, "Economics in One Lesson."

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

If all things were equal, you'd be right, however the Chinese domestic market in 10-15 years, will be three times the size of the current American domestic market today, and MORE importantly the Chinese Government is a Communist government, they aren't playing by Henry's Hazlitt's or Adam Smith or Rand's rules! So you either wake up to that reality today (ten years too late BTW) or we continue to get our asses handed to us with the trade imbalances we have today, which will get worse as the communist government in China continues to favor domestic companies, to fill their growing domerstic needs! There wont be any fucking free market in that scenerio!  Oh but they will want to continue to export out the ass to the USA, you can bet on that! Because until now, our corporations and politicians have been acting like crack addicts desperate for a cheap labor fix, instead of looking at this relationship for what it is!  

I wish we lived in a real free market global economy too, but we dont!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 10:01 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

This type of "two wrongs make a right" or "ends justify the means" mentality IS the problem.  You are part of the very problem you rant against.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 02:00 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

I disagree, I'm simply pointing out, that we have two choices in the globalist corporate economy. Either have NO trade agreements with Countries who do not reflect our political and individual values ( which I'm ok with) OR stop acting like we can have a free market environment, with free market principles and conditions, while trading with Communist, Dictators, Obligarchs, and Theotractic Dictators! I'm all for abolishing every trade agreement with Countries who don't promote, reflect, and protect our values, however its obvious that our Corporate CEO's, Politicans, and a majority of our population don't agree, so at least can we get the best deal for both the American worker and taxpayer???

It's called dealing with the world you live in, not pretending to live in the world you want to!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:36 | Link to Comment mirac
mirac's picture

While making some good points, I am afraid that there won't be a government in 2014.  What ever will be happening, will be ugly!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:43 | Link to Comment samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

lol zhers .,,funny.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

I am afraid that there won't be a government in 2014.

 

I'm afraid I'll win the Powerball jackpot.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Angus, do me a favor. BUY A TICKET!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:11 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

If you don't buy a ticket you're wasting your vote. Make sure to play Romney's birthday and not Ron Paul's. Romney is electable and that's got to count for something (fingers crossed).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:32 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Oh, god. We're watching the entire Jericho TV series on Netfelch right now. 2 episodes a night. This thread's making my skin crawl.

I keep hoping Jericho doesn't turn out to be Reality TV.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:28 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

I only caught a few episodes but that was a good one.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

But you're essentially asking him to grow a pair, isn't that a little much to expect?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:13 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Sorry, Renewable Life, I just don't give a shit anymore. Most of the stuff you whine about is either trivial or nonsense.

This election just was a clear choice between freedom and tyranny. Tyranny won. The 47% is now the 51% and it's getting worse. THAT'S the REAL reason the Republicans lost. Audit the FED, the ignorant public doesn't care. The war on drugs as a real issue? Whatever. Renewable energy? What a joke. And Republicans are not in your vagina. That's just more progressive lies repeated by the activist leftist mainstream media and believed by lazy female (and male) voters.

The truth is that the American people are a bunch of selfish dumbfucks that have been brainwashed by our education system and the media. Justice is server however, because they actually deserve the wretched government that they get. The American republic died 100 years ago and American democracy died in 2012. Now only despotism and a Kleptocracy remain.

Nice soapbox.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:56 | Link to Comment Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

....AND REPUBLICANS ARE NOT IN YOUR VAGINA"    I DONT HAVE A VAGINA BUT.....the republicans are in a lot of vaginas without permission - please keep up the good work

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:06 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The politico crowd is going to slither into any orifice you don't actively protect. And there'll be no lube for the peasant class.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:59 | Link to Comment Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Stockpile WD40???

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

oh hahahahhah,

And Republicans are not in your vagina. That's just more progressive lies repeated by the activist leftist mainstream media and believed by lazy female (and male) voters.

"progressive lies" oooohhhhhahahahahhahahhaaahhhahahha

Paul Ryan, carrying on from Ron Paul, who kept RayGun's dream alive.

Sanctity of Life proposed Constitutional Amendment.

yeah yeah, I won't let the story go - p'haps because few here seem to acKNOWledge it.

fuck'g hoot!    zygote personhood!! 

at least Renewable Life's rant hit a better pitch.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 23:53 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

1) A human zygote exists for about four days, and becomes a blastocyst on the fifth day.[5]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygote

 

2) Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception) at a Glance

  • Birth control you can use to prevent pregnancy up to five days (120 hours) after unprotected sex

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/emergency-contraception-m...

 

3. 1)  PAUL: As an OB doctor, I've dealt with birth control pills and contraception for a long time. This is a consequence of government control of medical insurance. The problem is the government is getting involved in things they shouldn't be involved in, especially at the federal level. But along the line of the pills creating immorality, I don't see it that way. I think the immorality creates the problem of wanting to use the pills. So you don't blame the pills. The pills can't be blamed for the immorality of our society.

GINGRICH: When government provides a morning-after abortion pill [under ObamaCare], you inevitably move towards tyranny.

PAUL: Actually, the morning-after pill is nothing more than a birth control pill, so if you legalize birth control pills, you really can't separate the two. They're all basically the same, hormonally.

 

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm

 

3.2) Q: You have said that you believe that life begins at conception and that abortion ends an innocent life. If you believe that, how can you support a rape exception to abortion bans, and how can you support the morning-after pill? Aren't those lives just as innocent?

PAUL: They may be, but the way this is taken care of in our country, it is not a national issue. This is a state issue. And there are circumstances where doctors in the past have used certain day-after pills for somebody with rape. And, quite frankly, if somebody is treated, you don't even know if a person is pregnant; if it's 24 hours after rape, I don't know how you're going to police it. We have too many laws already. Now, how are you going to police the day-after pill? Nobody can out-do me on respect for life. I've spent a lifetime dealing with life. But I still think there is a time where the law doesn't solve the problems. Only the moral character of the people will eventually solve this problem, not the law.

 

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:46 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture
we've been through it all before, hash it out amongst your fellow disinterested, uninformed voters.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 02:45 | 2963627 Cathartes Aura Vote up!

5
Vote down!

-12

yeah, that's always been the part I get stuck on, the Libertarian putting forth the Sanctity of Life Bill proposals every other year. . . I mean, I know these CongressCritters play volleyball with these bills - like the Weather Modification ones K.Bailey Hutchison and her pal Olympia Snow take turns pushing around.

so they just keep those bills "alive" and add bits of different wordage over time. . . pretty fascinating to see how they grow their agenda. . .

and Ron Paul's volleyball was Sanctity of Life, he keep that one alive for years,

The Sanctity of Life Act was a bill first introduced in the United States House of Representatives by Rep. Steve Stockman (R-TX) on July 20, 1995, and cosponsored by Rep. Barbara Cubin (R-WY). It was reintroduced with similar text by Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) in 2005 in the 109th United States Congress,[1] 110th United States Congress,[2][3] 111th United States Congress,[4] and the 112th United States Congress.[5] The repeatedly introduced bill sparked advocacy from pro-life activists and opposition from pro-choice activists.[6]

and of course, the Rand son will continue the legacy, but meanwhile, so did the other "Paul" - Paul Ryan, who added some more interesting clawbacks - well, hell, of course - we're talking gov't here, that's what they do, they make LAWS, right?  so Paul Ryan's version, that's a hoot, I'll let you decide through your own web-search who might be the most accurate in their interpretations, but one thing for sure, it's yet another step in the direction of controlling a women's womb, the rights to make decisions about her own body, trumped by the State.  Ryan's floating enforced pregnancy even in case of rape and incest, we'll see how much shit that stirs up, over time.

it's how these politicians work though, stealth, lies, pretense, false labels, misdirection - they keep their agenda alive over time, manipulating the media until it seems a natural thing to acquiesce to, this loss of sovereignty - and for women, body sovereignty.

apparently it all got rollin' with the RayGun!

"Far from being extreme, Congressman Ryan has picked up the mantle of President Ronald Reagan in his support for a congressional declaration of personhood," commented Gualberto Garcia Jones, J.D.  "We are hopeful that as Ronald Reagan did before him, Congressman Ryan will use his position of influence to advocate uncompromisingly for the dignity and full legal personhood of the preborn."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/romney-vp-pick-supports-personho...

so yeah, all the Conservative Repubs keeping that bill alive, just doing their part for the system that works against the people.  over time.

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 08:50 | 2964090 CrockettAlmanac.com
Vote up!

0
Vote down!

0

If life isn't sacred, what is?

Fri, 11/09/2012 - 14:43 | 2965653 Cathartes Aura
Vote up!

0
Vote down!

0

if life is sacred, you could start with the life lived by the woman, and measure it against the minutes of existence,  completely dependent on the LIFE of the woman, that you desire to award the zygote.  it's illogical to argue UNLESS the argument acknowledges the DESIRE for STATE CONTROL over  female reproductive freedom. 

end of.

all the lofty verbiage you spew and the labels you string together to describe your beliefs mean nothing when it gets broken down into actual beliefs - then you and your fans are exposed for the tiny minded control freaks you are in your hearts. "anarcho-capitalist atheist pro-lifer" - did I get them all in?  any others like a caveat for their particular "libertarian" flavour?  echo chamber of upvoting lacking in critical thinking, all for the sake of wearing the "don't blame me, I VOTED for _______" bumper sticker - clue:  it's the "voting" part that's the tell. . .

if life is sacred, and you desire to enforce pregnancy to live birth - WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?  will you continue your sacred role as protector to provider for the forced birth?  or go back to the "fuck the baby mamas and their brats" that is a frequent moan here?  who will provide for all these unwanted babies, and what kind of CULTURE do you suppose you'll end up with? 

*crickets*

anyone interested in *more* of the *same* can roll back the link. . .
Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:39 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

And yet you fail to understand the words, " I don't know how you're going to police it. We have too many laws already. Now, how are you going to police the day-after pill? "

You'll continue to say that Ron Paul puts the rights of a zygote over those of the mother.

And I will continue to point out your error.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:59 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

oooh, so disingenuous - Paul may not know how they'll police it, but he's all for making it a Constitutional Amendment and then working out the details as they go. . .

how very very CONgressional - like Pelosi passing the bills so they can see what's in 'em , eh?

you never, ever address the decade long PUSH for that amendment, initiated each time by Ron Paul.

you'd think he'd have figured out how he'd like it policed by now, eh?  best leave that to the locals to enForce.

and yes, way too many laws already - though THIS particular one belongs in the Dark Ages.

The Sanctity of Life Act was a bill first introduced in the United States House of Representatives by Rep. Steve Stockman (R-TX) on July 20, 1995, and cosponsored by Rep. Barbara Cubin (R-WY). It was reintroduced with similar text by Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) in 2005 in the 109th United States Congress,[1] 110th United States Congress,[2][3] 111th United States Congress,[4] and the 112th United States Congress.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctity_of_Life_Act

dunno how "they" will enForce it, don't care, get 'er done.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:31 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Sanctity of Life act takes reproductive regulation out of the hands of the federal government so there's nothing for them to enforce. Just make sure that your abortion clinic is located in a blue state, voter, so that you can get all those subsidies for free public abortions.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:18 | Link to Comment AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Dude. You're living in my head. I've been wanting to write a piece like that to the local rag. Basically, those idiots need to take on Libertarian Ron Paul principles. I would also add, repeal the NDAA, Patriot Act, Obama care and end the wars, and cut ties and aid to the Zionists.

There were 12 million fewer votes cast in this last election. I couldn't hold my nose and vote for either one of those assholes, I'm sure I wasn't alone.

Unfortunately, I think we're to far gone. Secession is the only way at this point.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:30 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

AllWorkedUp, those are all good tangible goals that make sense. +1  Unfortunately, you're probably right in that we're too far gone.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:43 | Link to Comment mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

Secessionist ideas have also been on the Left too.

http://vermontrepublic.org

They've been at it for awhile.

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

case in point:

Basically, those idiots need to take on Libertarian Ron Paul principles.

voter.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 23:58 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

 

“If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” -- Thoreau

 

 

I HEARTILY ACCEPT the motto, — "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have.


But, to speak practically and as a citizen, unlike those who call themselves no-government men, I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government. Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect, and that will be one step toward obtaining it." -- Thoreau

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:48 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

zygote personhood.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:21 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

That's hardly a cogent response. Your obsession is beyond bizarre.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:06 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your deliberate obtuseness is completely expected, at this stage.

and the Conservative Republican Party's obsession with controlling wombs is beyond bizarre.

over and OUT.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:32 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Waaaaay out, apparently.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:08 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Amen, that was the next paragraph I "could have gone on for another hour" with!! 

TSA, Homeland Security Dept, NDAA, Patriot Acts I and II, this shit is all part of the "war on liberty" with I did reference with the war on drugs, but should have expanded upon!!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I'd vote for em in that case, but they'd still be well advised to find a better, more believable front man than Mitt in 2016, preferably someone other than a rich, middle aged white man.  That is so 20th century.  

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

The GOP has not been the party of restraint for decades - if ever.   Remember Reagan's voodoo economics...  cut taxes - spend - borrow.

The GOP is - and is perceived to be - the party of cocksuckers.  That sliver of people who want to pay no taxes - destroy the environment - and prance around on their yachts.

Anyone with a brain gets it.   Yet still the dumb fucks in middle america continue to vote for them - they fail to realize they are getting fucked hard in the ass by them hahaha...  but that is because they are ALSO racists assholes.

So what do you have left - the Democratic party - also owned by corporations - the main difference between the parties is that the Dems at least apply some lube when they fuck you up the ass hard.  Oh yes, and they make sure to put on a Bill Clinton smile (whereas the GOP snarls with a fuck face and rams it in dry and takes pleasure out of your suffering)

Cheap energy is done - there are too many people - and there is no longer growth without money printing.

America is FUCKED.  The world is FUCKED.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

+1000.  I have never seen the difference put so directly and succinctly.  Sorry guys, stop chewing on your sour grapes and think about it for a moment.  God, that is Dick Cheney to a T.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:24 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You can give me down arrows until the end of time and it won't improve Republican prospects.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:02 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lol, here, have an upvote - for addressing the anonymous downers, *grin*

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:44 | Link to Comment duo
duo's picture

Obamacare will be so hated by 2016 (and 100 million will be part time and therefore uninsured), that whever proposes scrapping it for single-payer will get huge support.

Repubs...pre-empt the Dems before they propose both the problem and the "solution" to the health care issue.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment petolo
petolo's picture

Most Americans have no clue what a budget deficit is much less consider it a tragedy.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

so true, but even after seeing the deficits, trillions and triilons of euros and dollars, even I can't imagine what it really is.
I've seen the pictures how big a pule it would be but in my life, talking thousands of dollars is already a big topic.
Imagine you wife spends 1000 dollars and shoes.... you go nuts.
and in the grand scheme, what's a thousands dollars?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:24 | Link to Comment Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

I read a blurb a while back where people in the Weimar Republic didn't finally get the message fully digested regarding inflation until they saw their spending power cut in half in just 7 days. It was creeping up on them, but it wasn't until it reached that ridiculous level that they as a society could no longer keep their heads in the sand.

I have a feeling we're headed down the same road and as long as DWTS remains on TV, and folks iPhones still keep them preoccupied they won't wake up as a whole.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:22 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Bollixed, that's the most lucid and frightening statement that I've read in a long time.  Simply put, people won't wake up until their freedom and prosperity are destroyed.  Hang on; it's going to be a wild ride.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:24 | Link to Comment real
real's picture

i give the screaming potato a thumbs up just cause i miss him day to day 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:25 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

The amazing thing is you can still trade that paper shit for stuff. Two words boys and girls: Tangible Assets

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

It's all ok.  We will all be reincarnated

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

“…the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.”

This is the biggest lie. Money printing is a giant redistribution of wealth mechanism that dilutes people's wealth and moves it to the Government and its dependents - and of course to banks. It can be seen as a form of taxation. The three biggest redistribution mechanisms are taxation, deficits and bubbles.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The only way to reverse the National Debt at this point is to dramatically cut spending and reduce the size of Govt across the board.  Any politician who attempts to curb government debt is toast with the voters, in large part because of the propaganda they get from the MSM.  Either way, people voted for the meme of class warfare, free stuff and wealth redistribution. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

IM possible.

We can see where that gets you by looking at Europe... countries that cut end up actually shrinking more - tax revenues go down... hiring goes down... it's a spiral into HELL.

It's simply too late - the debts are now too large - and it's too difficult to take back what has been given - whether it is corporate handouts or programmes for the public.  Again look at Europe - you cannot cut.

Canada a couple of decades was one of few countries that have made this work - but they cut back in GOOD times.... the global economy was buoyant so they could pull it off.

Now the world is collapsing... you cannot cut back and hope to recover.

I guarantee you - what is coming are massive defaults.  Unspeakable defaults.  And CHAOS

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 06:26 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

That's true.  Defaults and devaluation are the future, because austerity is impossible now.  However, after a default comes FORCED austerity because you can't borrow the same amount ever again.  Check fucking mate, and no way around that.

This is the lesson of Greece, Spain, Italy... and eventually every debtor nation. 

I believe that is why we have fema camps and soon -- drones everywhere.  Politicians know the math.  They are planning how to maintian order when the snap cards no longer work, and millions of inner city gangsters start feeling hungry.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:29 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Especially when they do it with 0% interest rates...you can´t even save anything and get paid a small % to recoup some of the losses....and we know only 3% of us own precious metals...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:09 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Most Americans have no clue what a budget deficit is

A lot of them do... they just avoid thinking about it.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:28 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

As is evidenced by the re-election of the majority of congress. (incumbents)

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

Yes and that will be their undoing.........

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Deacon Frost
Deacon Frost's picture

"It’s a prank you can play on an entire country world".

(considering it IS the world's reserve currency)

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:54 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Hey, look at the bright side. Thanks to obscene currency debasement, a $1 trillion deficit becomes less disgraceful every year!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Excellent reply!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

Propaganda - 100 Control the media you control the language

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment samwell
samwell's picture

And who Pray Tell Controls our media?  Zionist Jew infiltrators who have no loyalty to the United States or anyone else.  There loyalty ties are with the state of Israel, fellow jews, and Money!!  Wakeup Goy before they have you in one of their Gulag Archipeligos like the Bolsheviks did to the Russian Orthodox Christians in Russia.

Fuck the Zionazis

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:12 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

you the guy that did that vid..

what, what, in the butt?

 

Or were you just the stunt double for it?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

His face they airbrushed to look like a butt.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:01 | Link to Comment samwell
samwell's picture

I guess I hit a raw nerve with the Israhell firsters and their MEGAPHONIES allies!!!!  the truth hurts when you live in a world of denial doesn't it.  The sooner Israhell figures out that it is not the center of the Universe and that they are in fact a despised pariah state for what they do to other nations and people, not because of their religion or skin color, the better.  Israhell is an apartheid, racist, supremacist state that indeed does need to go quietly into the night and leave the rest of us alone.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:34 | Link to Comment AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

The funny thing is that their denial about how they are will be their undoing - yet again. History repeats absolutely.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:09 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

And who Pray Tell Controls our media?

Go fuck yourself, troll.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:17 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Your counter argument is fucking solid bruh.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:28 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Counter argument? You thought that was an argument?

Okay, let me make this very simple for you: I told him that he was a fucking troll.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:01 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

So, are you saying you agree with his assertions? You seem very angry.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:46 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

I ... TOLD ... HIM ... THAT ... HE ... WAS ... A ... FUCKING ... TROLL.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:55 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Sorry, I guess that was my primal scream.  I grabbed a cognac and a large dose of hopium and I’m feeling lot’s better now.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:25 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You seem like a retarded chimp, but we don't hold that against the chimp.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

Two great videos - this one is The Israeli Generals Son - he is a Jew and he exposes the foundation of evil that Israel is built on (the appaling thing is the amount of money that has been spent and the people killed in the name of this massive lie) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TOaxAckFCuQ

 

This one is another self-hating Jew - he suggests that a deal was done by Zionists that guaranteed a homeland in Palestine if the German Jews sold out Germany in the war... and that was the reason why Hitler turned on Jews....  of course if you are a Zionist banker you wouldn't want that bit of info getting out would you - it doesn't absolve Hitler (what he should have done is hung the Zionist bankers not killed millions) but it sure does spread the blame around http://www.scribd.com/doc/8634450/Germany-and-the-Jews-by-Benjamin-H-Freedman-1961

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment Tommy Gunner
Tommy Gunner's picture

Exactly.

Two great videos - this one is The Israeli Generals Son - he is a Jew and he exposes the foundation of evil that Israel is built on (the appaling thing is the amount of money that has been spent and the people killed in the name of this massive lie) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TOaxAckFCuQ

 

This one is another self-hating Jew - he suggests that a deal was done by Zionists that guaranteed a homeland in Palestine if the German Jews sold out Germany in the war... and that was the reason why Hitler turned on Jews....  of course if you are a Zionist banker you wouldn't want that bit of info getting out would you - it doesn't absolve Hitler (what he should have done is hung the Zionist bankers not killed millions) but it sure does spread the blame around http://www.scribd.com/doc/8634450/Germany-and-the-Jews-by-Benjamin-H-Fre...

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

ALL major "news" outlets liberal (except FOX).

BO wins.

GOP needs to buy some news outlets.

They don't need women or minorities or to expand their base.

They need to expand THEIR brainwashing capabilities!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:28 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Fox is just the exception that proves the rule.

 

In reality its all just for show. Your "team" doesn't even exist. It was co-opted from it's inception.

 

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:06 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Perception management is the future.

 

And the past.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Agreed. I was wondering if anyone would comment. Thank you for expanding upon my thought.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:44 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Oh, the hole goes much, much deeper than some simple user fiddling.

Filter Bubble

Revelance Paradox

The Program

Persona Management

Trapwire

Cubic Corporation

It's all to do with imperfect minds with imperfect information acting in isolation to solve problems, then bunging ill-formed algos at it, and then mis-applying the results.

 

Messy. In a shit-will-hit-the-fan way.

 

(Note: all links are public, and thus open to total bullshit)

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:45 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

In the abstract, people understand that you can't believe what's on the internet.  The problem today is that very few people actually research in, how you say, "libraries"?

Once somebody says something on the internet that another likes, it gets repeated.  Pretty soon, the same (false) fact is multiplied on the internet enough that people assume it's true.  Even those who take the time to "research it" often rely on the internet for their research.  Nobody has the time to fact check everything--we want our (mis)information now.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:51 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Until philosophers are kings, or the kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have rest from their evils — no, nor the human race, as I believe — and then only will this our State have a possibility of life and behold the light of day.

 

There's a reason Philosophy is useful.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:00 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Philosophy is hard work.  That is why most men dread it.

Many, many years ago, I came across this gem.  Say what you will about Ayn Rand, this is pure gold:  http://fare.tunes.org/liberty/library/pwni.html.

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:23 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

One of the great tragedies of the 20th Century was that Rand was neither a good Philosopher nor a good Economist.

 

I mean that sincerely; "I'm sure you believe everything you say, but what I'm saying is, if you believed something different, you wouldn't be sitting where you're sitting".

 

There is hope, however.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 18:42 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

I take no issue with your comment that Rand was not a good economist--I never thought of referring to her as one.  But she was definitely a good philosopher.  Her main problem, it seems to me, was that she couldn't live up to her own high ideals.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:07 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

" But she was definitely a good philosopher."

 

According to whom?  Certainly not most Philosophy Departments...   that in and of itself doesn't prove she's a bad one, of course, but why is it that the most fanboyish fanboys of Rand's 'philosophy' are people who haven't read any other Philosophy?

 

Kidding aside, I'm not of the view that she was awful, but that she was mediocre - and not just because I sometimes giggled at her unargued assertions and strawmen, or disagreed with some of her 'conclusions.'

 

I disagree at the end of the day with most of what, say, Karl Marx said - but he, actually, was a very good philosopher.

 

But philosophy isn't science, and economists aren't even philosophers which is why its especially silly that our whole "economy" is planned and regulated by people like Paul Krugman, who, from a philosophical and certainly scientific point of view - have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

 

Rand had a strong opinion - she defended a worldview.  How is that rigorous philosophy??

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:17 | Link to Comment Freedom Pilot
Freedom Pilot's picture

I was always fascinated by Rand's hatred and deep contempt of Kant.  I never could get my head around that--I've read some Kant and enjoyed it. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:59 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Put it this way:

She couldn't get through the three critiques.

Not many do.

 

 

Only then will you really hate Kant, but not for the same reasons. The reason you'll hate him is because it re-wires your brain to actually understand all three at the same time, and you'll find your appreciation of the sublime gets twisted (oh, and for other reasons, but ZH isn't philosophy friendly).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:18 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
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You have my attention!  Any elaboration would be greatly appreciated.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:33 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
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On Kant?

He's dense; he's German; he's logical; he's hard.

Most people (even philosophers) barely read two of the critiques, and even then, they skip the tough bits. Reading all three, and synthesising them into a coherent whole within your noodle does three things: a) it requires you to think like Kant,  b) it radically alters your perception of reality and c) Kant really was a good enough mind that the three are designed to be a cohesive whole.

Anyone claiming they understand Kant, who hasn't read all three? Call them on their bollocks. Once you have understood them? It's the 19th Century version of listening to Led Zeppelin.

 

He's the corner-stone of European thought for a reason; partly because understanding him fully is like smacking your head with an expertly trimmed limestone cornice. Three times.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:35 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
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Hmmm...I'm not sure if I want to try to tackle these now or not. 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

The Critiques were written in the 18th Century, not the 19th. 

The theory of the sublime in the 3rd critique is great, but I never could understand his position on artistic genius in that work. It seems to fly in the face of the metaphysics laid out in the 1st Critique.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
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You're correct, excuse the mis-type there, I had 20 minutes before a meeting, and was typing too fast. Not to say Kant didn't radically alter the 19th C either though.

 

The Sublime; yep, that's the nexus [and way too gone to discuss this atm, I apologise]. Suffice to say ~ it influenced entire realms of art.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment NidStyles
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Kant, really? What is with the obsession with Kant, sure he was rather ahead of his time, but there have been far better minds since.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:17 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
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I owe Rand a great deal because she got me interested in philosophy.  As anyone who has read much of Rand knows, and as Freedom Pilot pointed out, she really hates Kant.

I always wanted to read Kant to see if he's half as bad as she makes him out to be.  I don't believe in relying on one person's opinion of another without going to "first sources" and seeing for myself.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:47 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

 

Metaphysics and Epistemolology

The man who . . . closed the door of philosophy to reason, was Immanuel Kant. . . .

Kant’s expressly stated purpose was to save the morality of self-abnegation and self-sacrifice. He knew that it could not survive without a mystic base—and what it had to be saved from was reason.

 

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/kant,_immanuel.html

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

Put it this way:

She couldn't get through the three critiques.

 

I couldn't get through a single minute of Jersey Shore. Those folks must be geniuses.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:25 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

she was definitely a good philosopher." According to whom?  Certainly not most Philosophy Departments

A Philosophy Department? In a state-approved institution?? You think that is a stamp of truth???

Open your freeking eyes. Universities are cesspools of coagulated bullshit.

They have condemned themselves by knowingly enslaving their students to an evil Debt Regime.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:11 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
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There's Universities outside of 'Merika, where you often don't have to pay much. In fact, many of them don't subscribe to the US model, and even when they do, their maximum fees are ~$12k a year (even for Law or Medicine HOLY FUCKSHIT BATMAN).

Look it up sometime; quiet shockingly in the last 4,000 years, the vast majority of philosophers weren't Americans.  Even more shockingly, the best Universities for philosophy aren't in America. 

To add to this, since you magically picked up two greens in the space of me typing this:

American Universities have had terrible philosophy departments outside of political philosophy for the last 50 years. Behaviouralism? Ugh. Simply put: your system has removed most decent philosophy as it tends to point out the logical fallacies and bullshit of your profitable MBAs. And your politicians. And your Religious nutters. And Randians. And so on.

 

 

America is only #1 in three things, remember?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:16 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

"America is only #1 in three things, remember?"

Remind us again, please.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Military Spending, Prisoner per population and Medical spending [not medical efficiency mind you, US ranks about #37 on actual medical benefits to citizens].

 

I'm paraphrasing, if you want sources, I'm happy to provide them.

 

 

Sorry, totally lied, it's four:

 

Energy expenditure / person capita [Germany is next, coming in at ~average 2/3rds of America - and if you break that into an economic output co-efficient, America is like #9th]

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:28 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Thanks.

1.  Too many people confuse "military spending" with "defense spending" and couldn't see collossal waste if it hit them between the eyes.  This is apart from the issue of why we have so many bases in foregin countries.

2.  The prison population issue is deeply disturbing...unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

3.  As P.J. O'Rourke famously quipped, if you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free.  We are in serious crap.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:43 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

On 3).

Actually, even GS internal reports bascially agree that if you ripped out the predatory Insurance / combatitive pricing models, you could achieve total health care for about 50% less than is currently spent. (Presuming you went with a UK model, which still has split Private / Public choice, rather than EU models).

 

 

The political issue is that this (ironically) will wipe out a whole slew of jobs ~ a lot (can't remember the numbers, and I'm pressed for time).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:28 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

 

t if you ripped out the predatory Insurance / combatitive pricing models, you could achieve total health care for about 50% less than is currently spent.

 

How much more could be saved if governments permitted a free market to develop in insurance and medical care? And what is "total health care?" More than one Obama adviser has said that old folks shouldn't receive the care they've been promised. One even said we should let old people die.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

There's Universities outside of 'Merika

Yes, but do you know what kind of crap they teach at Euro Universities? It's just as bad in most cases. Worse in others.

Try... please try... to discuss philosophy in Europe. Get down to axioms and see what you find.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I found the entire basis of:

A) Modern Logic

B) Modern Computing

C) Modern Ethics

D) Modern...

 

Oh waaaait. You're from 4chan, right. Sorry, I was being nice about the Avatar, but hey... even a silver-back is still an ape.

 

p.s. "Philosophy". You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:23 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Deleted

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 03:30 | Link to Comment joe90
joe90's picture

You reckon "pure gold"?  Sorry, there's a turd in your punchbowl.

"and "imperialism" is the name given to the foreign policy of this country, which has never engaged in military conquest and has never profited from the two world wars, which she did not initiate, but entered and won. (It was, incidentally, a foolishly overgenerous policy, which made this country waste her wealth on helping both her allies and her former enemies.) Something called "the military-industrial complex" — which is a myth or worse — is being blamed for all of this country's troubles."

 

 

 

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 20:17 | Link to Comment WezTheJuic
WezTheJuic's picture

Well, I guess this would be a matter of ones belief in your fellow man/woman, call it, a section of this species.  I will use myself as an example, "From what I have seen within many of the people within ZH, there are those that do have levels of sight inwhich we all can learn.  Hence, which is why, like others, have decided to join."

After all, what is the purpose of "open source"?  Namely wikipedia.  And source code, along with many others applications of this ideal.

Which leads me to this question. 

YES, there many within ZH that do have some genuine applicable insights into the economic/political/social environments within our different shared western societies.  Yet, how many of you have, that internal balance between your logical and emotional sides to not just see, but to see through?

Optimist am I?  Perhaps. Yet how about this, "WE ARE NOT DONE."

Cheers,

Pens,

Ps.  Which also means, I myself will be dropping by more oftern as well.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Philosophy, at its "basic axioms" (just to take the piss out of a prior poster), is about "nurturing the cognitive abilities of a human to be able to analyse information".

That's it. There's 4 strands, and each allows significant analytical ability into each realm they touch (logic, epistemology and two others).

There's a lot of other stuff surrounding this, and there's a lot of pseudo-intellectal nonsense on the intarweb claiming you can do it "faster, harder, smarter" [usually from the tech boys in Silicon Valley who then get raped by VCs, and then IPO to the muppets ~ case perhaps proven], but the bottom line is simple: Most Philosophy PHDs are the best macro-analysts I know. My teacher advised on the entire 1st strike policy for the USA, because back then philosophers were trusted to make "hard calls" coupled with "ethical rationality". [Aka, when RAND first started]

 

Then people started using really, really shitty computer models, and <poof> the whole thing goes bang. That's not to say the computer models haven't got better, but let's just say, Ma/Phys PHDs aren't in the business of real-world modelling to quite the same degree. Empirical data point: most philosophers get laid a lot; most math/physics bods are still virgins when they get their MAs. Sexist, and due to weighting balance, but bottom line: Aspergers can't get you "the ladies".

The actual serious point is that without empirical knowledge to back up theoretical knowledge, you tend to make really shitty models. Hello, Cybernetics and Ecology! (That went well. Ooops).

 

QED, perhaps.

 

 

Ooooh wait: I see Snooookie

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