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as gold futures saw a huge volume rush...
Charts:Bloomberg
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the fuck do they care about US sovereignty, let alone any nation?
It gives TPTB more opportunity to fence off Tungsten to the East at these prices.
"Fang Hu! Rook at all gorld I got on sale from Roundeyes!"
"Did you test gorld with device?"
"No, I was in hurry."
Probably an anomoly but it gets me thinking about what would actually drive gold down substantially? A very large increase in the dollar? The only thing I can think of that could do that is a crash in Europe: dollar goes up, gold goes down.....and then it's time to buy. Am I wrong?
Thoughts?
Europe crashed almost three years ago.
All they're doing now is salvaging what's left and sweeping up the mess. Has it really taken the gold market that long to find out in these days of broadband comms?
Yours will be a golden doom!
Rot in hell Bernank!
Nov. 27 Comex December gold options expiry
Nov. 27 Comex December silver options expiry
Nov. 27 Comex December copper options expiry
Nov. 28 Comex December miNY gold futures last trading day
Nov. 28 Comex November copper futures last trading day
Nov. 28 Comex December E-mini copper futures last trading day
Nov. 28 Comex December miNY silver futures last trading day
Nov. 30 Comex December gold futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Comex December silver futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Comex December copper futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Nymex December palladium futures first notice day
from here
If 8:40a...
With Soros and Paulson and a few tbtf banks adding to gold and or recommending long positions I would suspect it's time to hedge your gold longs and see how cheap it gets once SPX cracks down to the sub 1250ish area. Might want to hold your fire for cheaper prices.
Someone is about to print a fkload of money. I can smell it.
Perhaps the new BOE Wonder Boy John Carney?
What a bunch of immoral fucking assholes we have running this Clown Show.
I agree with you Bay of Pigs,but you got the first name wrong.
It is Mark....not John
Mark Goldman Carney....
Pretty sure you nailed it.
isn't this how black friday started? eventually the guys manipulating this might do it on a day when no one is sitting on the other side of the seesaw.
Remember 29th Feb 2012? Gold dropped $100 in a day. Today was a hiccup by comparison.
The real target is silver, not gold. JPM over a barrel on silver.
Watch the post open moves. Silver being relentlessly smothered.
Yeah. There is something going in silver. The OI just won't go down. I think all the markets are at a bottom similar to the one in 2009 right now. It is not a popular idea. But when you plot the market vs money supply and the money supply coming in the near future, we are pretty much in the exact same place, but without a banking crisis.
You and Bill have it exactly right Quin. Nice work.
I agree. Central banks and GS own the majority of the world's governments. There won't be a "banking" crisis. Banking is in quotes, because banks have not been banks for quite some time now.
I've been waiting for months to see what happens with the Dec delivery on silver. Demand exceeding supply and 40 or 50 years of diminishing stockpiles -- even their SLV piggybank runs out at some point.
let it rip, still not going to put my money into the paper bullshit game, fuck ALL the paper pushers! get out of debt, buy hard assests,get the popcorn and beer and watch the best horror flick ever.
Hard assets I agree with, but why worry about debt? Pay it off even more slowly with debasing currency.
If you don't own a house and you're unemployed, buy as many PM's as you can using plastic. You have nothing to lose. I know many that are starting to do this.
no thanks, I'm allergic to plastic!
Futures Metals Charts
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2012/11/futures-metals-...
08:20 New York time is when the "Crimex" opens!
+1, CRIMEX, hahahhaha!
This is all paper and I am sitting back watching the fireworks.
I wish I knew how you guys can count so quickly.
37B spanish bank deal, and haircuts
and 5.5% bond sales 1.5y low
Isn't that 7,72 million ounces of Gold that got sold in 1 minute?
I believe a MAJOR gold mining company is considered one which can produce over 1 million ounces per YEAR.
They use to hide this manipulation now they are just saying BACK THE FUCK OFF GOLD and go elsewhere.
Wow!
Statement indeed. The biggest Casino in the world proven time and time again.
And on Nov 2, Gold fell $40. Two days later it rose $40. Today it drops again. Big deal.
Gold has been moving sideways since mid 2011, while the media pumps gold as a must own.
I guess not everyone is believing or cares. But I can take my US 10 dollar bill and go buy breakfast at Denny's. That usually keeps me going until noon.
Zero Hedge is not media. the MEDIA is discouraging gold buddy.
Not so sure I agree. MSM is pumping gold. Here's one example.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/848991-16-trillion-reasons-to-own-gold
Don't have the time to pull multiple references. Google "owning gold". I'm sure you can figure out a few more search phrases.
don't do what THEY say, do what you have to do. problem with people today, can't figure things out for themselves!
seekinh alpha is MSM?
If you say so.
I don't know why you got the downvotes. I agree with you, the MSM is including "Buy Gold" stories. Why are these downvoters pretending these articles don't exist? Do they think only ZH recommends gold? (actually I think a lot do)
"Pros: 3 Reasons to go Bullish on Gold" http://www.cnbc.com/id/49997203
_______________________________________________________________
"Soros Buying Gold as Record Prices Seen On Stimulus" http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/soros-buying-gold-as-record-pri...
_______________________________________________________________
"Gold Prices Dip On Greece Debt Deal - Experts Say Buy Now" http://news.investors.com/investing-etfs/112712-634780-gold-prices-dip-o...
Let them crash the price to zero for all I care. Then real price discovery will start on the street and it will be a shit load higher than it is now.
Did something broken fixed get fixed - again?
Thank you Ben and Jamie!
Great day to buy phyzz! God I love Talmudic economics.
What? No uesless first post such as "Gold Bitchez or PMs Bitchez?"
You mean, we have posters that blow with the wind? When gold is up, they'll be back, when gold is down, they disappear.
Meanwhile, I will maintain my stance that PM's will maintain a relative value against various other markets, but cash is king because debt is based upon the dollar, not gold. Until you can pay all you bills and debts in gold, then gold is subject to the value of the dollar, not the other way around. And I wish it was the opposite as I don't like Central banks having control over fiat currency that controls the other markets. But reality is reality.
In the 1930s, PMs went down. PMs were sold to raise cash to cover debts, including marging calls. It was mining stocks, that interestingly enough, that did well. Any way my call for a rally Nov 16 was fantastic and then my call to sell above Dow 13K was also fantastic. I wouldn't think to add more short positions though. Only above 13k on the Dow. Congress will continue to wrangle on the "fiscal cliff" situation for another week, so I see very little movement. Maintaining a core small short position and adding on any time the Dow rises above 13K.
The real battle now isn't about profitting, unless you are in a position to profit from wars, but to maintain your wealth. And that also means protecting it from the Government.
GOLD, whinging bitchez!!!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I agree with most of what you say, Gold has caught up a lot with other assets over the last few years. But long term, I'd rather have Gold than cash. Money printing will trump debt deflation in the long run and on your second point re govt theft I also believe Gold will be easier to hide.
I'm not sure what to make of mining stocks. On the one hand they're a good leveraged play on the long commodities/short fiat trade, on the other hand there's the phrase "show me a Gold mine and I'll show you a liar with a hole in the ground!"
" Money printing will trump debt deflation in the long run and on your second point re govt theft I also believe Gold will be easier to hide."
Consider what you just said and think about it logically. This is where RP (Ron Paul) went wrong. First off, Global debt is not just our $16T in US debt. We are talking over 100 trillion in global debt. As a fact, I point out the the fact that the FRB lent out over $16 trillion to foreign institutions over the last 4 years.
And again, I point out with all the trillions printed some say has happened, where is that hyper inflation? I have yet to recieve an answer.
I contend that all the money being created is either servicing debt (which means it basically disappears) or it is being hoarded by various institutions and not flowing freely through the economies (which would be required for price inflation or hyper inflation).
Think about it, we are not just talking about $16 trillions in US debt, or even combining it with the hidden $16 trillion in FRB support to Europe, a total of $32 Trillion. There are also documented instances of other programs instituted by the Treasury. And do I even have to bring up the printing of the European Central Bank. To make my point clear, we have probably had $100 Trillion printed globally and this is where the world economy stands? Where is that hyper inflation?
I keep a small percentage in PMs for bartering - plain and simple. But that is in the BRIEF breakdown of the monetary system. Let me ask you this. If the Government were tomorrow to say that all dollars were to be backed by Gold and Silver, what do you think would happen? Let me put it to you this way. If the government said I could get gold for my dollars, like they once did, why would I carry heavy gold coins in my pocket when I could carry light paper dollars (backed by gold)?
That is RP's fallacy and the fallacy of most gold bugs and their demand for a currency backed by gold. They don't realize it would cause an huge decline in PMs. As for mining stocks. That is just something I read that seems to be correct. But historically speaking, it also is correct that PMs went down, for the reason I stated. I find it hilarious that I get thumbs down from people so bullish on PMs, knowing that I hold some PM's for safety reasons I just stated. But I am not married to that investment. I look at reality and history. So I imagine, some poster that has a crap load of PMs and gave me a thumbs down, will be later selling their PMs to me at a discounted price. LOL
I respectfully disagree. First, lets square terminology: inflation/deflation = increasing money suplly/decreasing money supply. A result of increasing inflation may (may not be) rising prices, and a result of deflation may (may not) lead to lower prices. If central bank measures on rate of price increases is something south of 2%, then this is hardly a case for owning gold, by your logic. Yet we have seen gold steadily ramp since 2003 in the context of a decreasing price environment Accordingly, in my opinion, gold is not just a hedge on the currency, but, its value must also be taking into account confidence, total debt, growth expectations, etc, since the general price level, according to the government, hasn't changed all that much.
If we actually saw the government begin to unwind its position (balance sheet), then this would constitute deflation associated with falling prices, including gold. As it turns out flat to falling prices has not generated any significant retreat from gold. And thats because the inflated money supply hasn't changed, and won't change until interest rates start to rise (i.e the FED starts to unwind its position by selling back bonds into the market and yields start rising. This tells me that the price of gold is strictly a monetary phenomenon, and not a general price phenomenon. It also tells me that gold is not an investment as much as it is a hedge against a debased or botched currency.
So, I wouldn't say Ron Paul is wrong. A currency backed by gold may bring about falling prices, but, this just simply implies that your currency is worth more, all else equal. The gold will still buy the same amount of shit whether prices are rising or falling. Thats the point! I think, and I would be interested to see what others say, if rates were to start to rise aggressively, that gold would probably begin a hefty retreat to take into account the opportunity cost of holding gold. RP 2016! peace.
Pareto: "I respectfully disagree."
Comment: Good start to a debate.
Pareto: "If central bank measures on rate of price increases is something south of 2%, then this is hardly a case for owning gold, by your logic. "
Comment: Considering the controversy over BLS statistics, you really want to defer to central bank numbers, which excludes energy and food in their inflation numbers? I on the other hand, would rather defer to the market. In other words, despite massive printing, markets haven't seen hyper inflation. So I am saying the markets are telling me what is going on, whereas, you are saying the markets with billions of participants are wrong and your siingular opinion is right - okay.
Pareto: "Yet we have seen gold steadily ramp since 2003 in the context of a decreasing price environment"
Comment: This can be easily attributed to dollar printing. Here is the point I am making that you and others seem to miss. Dollar printing is making various markets be artificially high. Yet, with all the printing, we don't see across the board hyper inflation - that in itself should be a message to you. What money that is actually flowing and not hoarded by various institutions, is flowing into specific sectors to maintain an artificial high price. In your somment about the ramp up in gold, equity indexes could also be included. Also do you realize you just told me we have a decreasing price environment? In other words deflation and historically, that meant declining prices in even gold because in an era of deflation a deleveraging, people have to sell assets (including gold) to raise cash to cover debts. Again, I remain logical and consistant in my post.
Pareto: "And thats because the inflated money supply hasn't changed, and won't change until interest rates start to rise (i.e the FED starts to unwind its position by selling back bonds into the market and yields start rising. "
Again, another problem you ascert is what the FED will do. The FED is specifically targeting interest rates to keep them low by buying debt. It is trapping itself. May I ask you how it is you have such knowledge above other ZHs and the entire financial world as to when that policy will end? Of course rates would be higher without such manipulation - that is academic. In fact economic deterioration would increase exponentially once this process occurs. By the way - that is part of the deleveraging process, whereas money becomes more expensive.
And by logic, if interest rates rise, money becomes more expensive, other asset classes, such as gold and real estate fall.
Pareto: " The gold will still buy the same amount of shit whether prices are rising or falling. Thats the point! "
Comment: No, you missed the point totally. I will again post my comment for you to ponder. I stated "why would I carry heavy gold coins in my pocket when I could carry light paper dollars (backed by gold)?" Ues anything can be a certain value of goods or service in a given market, gold or not gold. But my point which you missed is that once a currency is backed by gold, then why hold physical that requires more cost in storage and is heavier and thus harder to deal with then the paper (backed by gold). And by the way, my comment is backed historically. That would mean people selling their gold for paper.
Let me exaggerate to make my point. What is an elephant was the currency that was widely accepted. Let's say you had to bring an elephant to your grocery store to buy food. But one day, the government issued a currency that was easy to carry and use and was backed by an elephant. Don't you think everyone would give up their elephants and use those paper dollars? Yes, I know a ridiculous example but I had to make it ridiculous to make my point.
Silver, Bit-Chez!
Well, that was not me selling....In fact, hmmm, blue Wednesday sale, 3% off....Like it.
Well this is just a test of ~1705 in the making which will probably hold. If that level fails decisively, then the "handle" probably morphs into an A-B-C correction all the way down to 1560; so we all need to be emotionally prepared for that. That would make the last remaining weaker hands, and a lot of the stronger hands, puke up their gold. This is almost certainly the final leg down of the giant consolidation. I wouldn't be surprised to see an intra-session spike below 1700 and then a close back above 1705. If it goes to 1560, so be it. That will be a distant memory by Christmas.
"so we all need to be emotionally prepared for that"
Check the emotions at the door.
Keep your fiats dry.
Get Ready.
Let it crash to 1500$
PM is not on the sheeples' Xmas list.... for now.
More for ZHers
I'm expecting equities to go down hard today as well, as people realise the fiscal cliff is not going to be fixed. Well not until the market goes much lower and forces the politicians hands, that is.
HUI is gonna be pooey, that's for sure :-)
This Is What A Properly Analyzed Gold Chart Looks Like http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2012/11/this-is-what-pr...
New lows helped by 7.72 million gold ounces being sold in 1 min. Ya that's charts for you. No that's manipulation, how do you predict that? So anyway your graphic shows C wave will create new lows. New lows for what time frame? What is your new low target?
Charts??? How funny these people are, do they know anything about the peculiar dynamics of the paper PM "markets"? Ummm, like "garbage in, garbage out" isn't a very well known concept?
The 1506 figure mentioned here today is too funny. Not that it couldn't happen mind you.... just that if it does, it won't be due to any technical reasons. It will be down to naked shorting by Blythe and Citi, the new short on the block.
OK, ZH referendum time:
if the reader agrees charts are near useless in the context of ongoing paper PM price rigging such as we see demonstrated today. Hit the green.
if the reader believes that TA is just as relevant in PMs as it is in any other market, gimme a red.
I would give you a green just for your name.
Mmmm...so 500 on the S&P500 - of course, that's why they call it the S&P500!
Taking some gold at $1706 as the 89 DMA is hit.
or maybe gold (and bonds) are telling the truth and leading the reality that we are going over the fiscal cliff by design and higher taxes and shutting down spending will knock the wind out of all assets... until the banksters cover shorts then flip long and ramp the printing press again.
Which means buy, buy, buy at 0930.
Wake me up when the S&P is worth more than an oz of gold...
Have a nice nap, mr. van winkle.
Oy we can't let SLV breach 35 dollars or all our short positions will be hammered.
Movements like this use to rattle me. Now I realise that those drops mean that someone else in Washington and Wall Street is being rattled by the presence of gold.
If I hit the powerball, I'm buying nothing but physical silver.
It's fun to dream, but you have a much better chance of dying within the next 30 seconds than hitting the powerball.
So it's a win win at this point.
I want in on this sweet deal!
I wonder how much physical silver you could actually buy if you tried to spend $200 million on it.
I confess that I have no knowledge or experience when it comes to that kind of money, but I think you'd overwhelm every retailer long before you ran out of that sum. Though with that kind of money, I suspect you wouldn't go to any retailer.
That's the whole point. Create at least a retail shortage of the metal and also go after all the stored/industrial silver.
btw, I realize the odds of winning are minute, but I'd like to see the effects of a large, sweeping purchase of silver.
Looks like Force Majeure is "Price Majeure" after all...
Per Harvey, apparently our next tresury secretary put on a massive short position over the last few days. Now, they are covering that position, "making money." Our next treas secretary. We make money the old fashion way, we shear it.
This is some messed up stuff folks. Banking has got to be restored. Pump and dump is not sound. If JT Marlin wants to engage in this that is one thing. But if the Secretary of the Treas is running the company that does this option exp after exp, wtf?
Folks say hyperinflation could never happen because it is a political phenomenon and a choice. I agree with the qualifier, however, putting the CEO of pump and dump is a "lock" on lunatic policy.
Thanks for the gift Jamie. Can't wait to wipe my self with your signature on the currency.
Ok dear friends, fess up: during the "presidential campaign" how many here lost sight of the FACT that in addition to whatever else he is or isn't, Mr. Obama is, first and foremost, an out-and-out bankster butt boy?
Proof? His appointments in his 1st term. More? Appointments in his second... for starters:
Walter named (to follow Shapiro) at the SEC. Jamie Dimon to possibly follow Geithner at Treasury.
Questions about the seeming incongruity of commie and bankster whore bitch existing in a single body? Fire away.
Our favorite guy Warren thinks Dimon as Treasury Secretary would be "Terrific". Now, if everyone would eat and drink themselves to death on Hersey Chocolate Bar and Coca Cola, well, that'd be Terrific for Mr. Warren, too.
I didn't vote.
The 10:00 ramp up is missing this morning too ! Sigh ...
i was disgusted by the previous article about Harry Potter earlier ...
slingshot engaged
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qEwBi1NyBI
Mike honcho rocks. spread buttcheeks and all
Do like the Chinese,buy Gold and stop accumulating Treasuries despite still positive trade balance. They even hinted at decreasing their treasuries.
We will sell Gold against USD when short term interest rates above inflation. Try that Yellen, we have read our classics and hoarding is when interest rates are negative...
Well let me start with "fuck you Timmy G and Benny B" Yous are both terrorist. I told the zh crew yesterday gold and silver was going to get slammed. When the Central banks lease gold out at negative -0.5 % for year lease rates and silver lease rates are ZERO 0.00%, the bullion banks get PAID TO TAKE THE CENTRAL BANKS GOLD.
THIS CHEAP LEASE RATE(GETTING PAID TO TAKE THE GOLD AND SELL IT) IS STILL BEING OFFERD TODAY.
Check out the precious metals lease rates,it tells you how desperate the gold cartel is,
Keep stacking crew.....
Ps.....Fuck you Larry summers.
There you are....
Good call yesterday, Skinny-White-Shirtless-Hippie-Dude.
good call. How's the air over there? Went on a trip yesterday and they were spraying like mad. At one point, I counted 14 trails in 180 degrees of view (driving)!
When they do it here in Denver, the smell is reminiscent of an Apple retail store. Kind of creepy. Guess they do it on days where iPad sales are down.
Damn! It's on sale again!
Keep Stackin!
Sell off probably linked to the previous article as a big buyer suddnely disappears
All this manipulation just plays into what Jim Willie is saying, IMHO.
WHO front-ran the the the massive late morning short at 7:15 AM? That's where the money was stolen!!
I wonder when this became public knowledge:
So how comes gold isn't back at $1740? Stocks have reversed their losses.
Not really.
Stocks are up 5% for the year; gold is up 10%.
Stocks have continued to lose value relative to gold. This has been the long term trend for over ten years. And it's still in force; no change yet.
"How to Lie with Charts" by Gerald Everett Jones
Its all about the scale of the chart. A $24.80 "sell off" is only a 1.42% change. Show the price change in relation to the price and you will not notice the change.
Someone supposedly sold 24 tonnes of Gold in 5 minutes in a (physical) market where one of the biggest buyers will buy just 800 tonnes in the whole year.
Just think what that might mean if it were extrapolated and applied to most other markets.
Futures are a farce.
Futures are a farce
I think a few farmers might disagree with you.
I love these dips. I have bought a few more gold coins.
Go long!
Bought a few maples today. No complaints.