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The Millionaire Man Exodus: What Obama Can Learn From The UK's "Tax The Rich" Plan

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Regardless if the Fiscal Cliff is resolved tomorrow (impossible), on December 31 (unlikely), or in tandem with the debt ceiling hike some time in March 2013, after all the government fund buffers have been soaked dry as they were back in August 2011 (most likely), one thing is certain: America's wealthiest (billionaires and millionaires) are about to see their taxes soar - that's more or less a given.

The question is what happens then. Will, the wealthiest - those who have access to and can buy banking, incorporation, citizenship and legal services in any global jurisdiction in a world that has never been this decentralized and this , take it all quietly up until that point on the Laffer curve says they will commit mass suicide, or maybe, just maybe, because they don't feel like being force to pay uncle Sam even more than they currently do with the proceeds not used for something constructive like paying down debt, but instead to fund government corruption and inefficiency, they will pick up and leave without saying goodbye or even looking back, and in the process crush future US government tax revenues even more and send the deficit soaring more. After all it is the "1%" who pay 30% of all income tax. This means roughly about $600 billion in tax revenues annually.

"No risk in that", many will say - after all where can they go? Well, apparently many places. Because if the UK, where as the Telegraph reports a stunning two-thirds of domestic millionaires opted to leave the country than pay a "punitive" 50% tax, is any indication it is possible that the imminent tax hike on America's wealthiest is going to be one of the most destructive things that can happen to America's already unsustainable budget deficit.

From Telegraph:

In the 2009-10 tax year, more than 16,000 people declared an annual income of more than £1 million to HM Revenue and Customs.

 

This number fell to just 6,000 after Gordon Brown introduced the new 50p top rate of income tax shortly before the last general election.

 

The figures have been seized upon by the Conservatives to claim that increasing the highest rate of tax actually led to a loss in revenues for the Government.

 

It is believed that rich Britons moved abroad or took steps to avoid paying the new levy by reducing their taxable incomes.

...

Last night, Harriet Baldwin, the Conservative MP who uncovered the latest figures, said: “Labour’s ideological tax hike led to a tax cull of millionaires.

 

Far from raising funds, it actually cost the UK £7 billion in lost tax revenue.

 

Labour now needs to admit that their policies resulted in millionaires paying less tax and come clean about whether they would reintroduce this failed policy if they were in power.

 

Mr Osborne argued earlier this year that the 50p rate was deterring entrepreneurs from coming to Britain.

It appears that at least the UK has learned its lesson:

George Osborne, the Chancellor, announced in the Budget earlier this year that the 50p top rate will be reduced to 45p from next April.

Sadly, even with this largely cosmetic move, the UK too is grappling with a far bigger issue: it has never been about revenue. It is all about spending. And both in the UK and the US government spending is simply too big. How big? So big that all tax revenues couldn't fund just the mandatory payments (which exclude military spending), let alone discretionary.

But both the UK and US know that revealing this little factoid would lead to the beginning of the end, as the realization that the welfare state myth, which has perpetuated a tenuous peace in the "developed world" ever since the advent of Otto von Bismark, has been one big lie. And anyway, with some additional money still entering the ponzi system, one does not need to pull the plug on it just yet: it will likely last at least one or two more years before it all comes crashing down.

Yet while the UK learned the hard way that in today's world jumping on one's G-6 timeshare private jet and becoming a citizen of XYZ takes a few hours top of preparation and execution, the US is only now going to learn this very hard lesson.

 


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Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Unless these folks are going to mars, it won't matter.  The earth is drowning on debt.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:18 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Every country will eventually follow suit and there will be no where to hide!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:23 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

One by one, the producers are walking away from a game that offers them no role to play but that of sacrificial animal.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:26 | Link to Comment redd_green
redd_green's picture

Producers?  Heh, we're talking about the crooks here, not the folks who run small family businesses that are the backbone of our economy.   Dude.   <shaking head>

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:46 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

millonaire exodus, what a load of bullshit.  Atlas Shrugged will never happen in real life, sorry, no one's going Galt.   2/3 of english millinaires are leaving?  Will they all live in Singapore, abandon their extended families and friends to save some tax money?  get real. anyone tied closer to their bank account than their family, community or country can go... beat it.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:19 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

sorry, but it is happening.  Angry because you can no longer steal from them?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:05 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

haha nice avatar, jackass, guess I insulted the queen, lol. hive mentality.

Steal from them? I pay 35% here in the apple and 4% more won't kill me or turn me into some secessionist fool or some deserter, for that matter.

pay yer taxes, quit yer bitchen, life is good above the fray.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:47 | Link to Comment notbot
notbot's picture

Sadly, even with this largely cosmetic move, the UK too is grappling with a far bigger issue: it has never been about revenue. It is all about spending.

+1

This whole tax debate is a complete misdirection.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Uh, the rich can afford plane tickets and trips to jolly old England any time they want.  Let’s see here $1,600 for a trip from Singapore to London or pay $50,000, $100,000, $150,000 more a year in taxes?

I thought you guys were financial wizards.  WTF?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I say let them move to Singapore and give up their citizenship. I'll stay here near the largest fresh water basin on the Planet. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/business/global/26iht-green26.html?_r=0

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

um, "the rich" don't ever "leave" - they just get a tax accountant to stash their loots/pixels in various places, then buy property in various places, and bounce around according to their advisors - a month here, 6 weeks there - no real "home" - just fully staffed houses they can drop into on a moment's notice. . .

been since forever.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

No they do leave, they go to other places where foreigners aren't taxed at nearly the same rates.

Every country stiffs their own because they can, but when you're in the business of attracting foreign capital the rules change and considerably.

Oh yes they do leave, and when they are eventually enticed back by domestiuc government with tax breaks they leave behind the overseas structures they put in place which the govt is happy to ignore (if only to get these revenues back) leaving those who chose not to to pick up the bill.

But that's how a free market economy works isn't it?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:18 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perhaps we're quibbling over degrees of wealth, and whether the "rich" are familied, or newly casino'd "first generation" solo types. . .

it's been my experience that the majority of people who have come into large sums of monies over the past couple of decades just. . . working vacation. . . a lot.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Will, the wealthiest ... pick up and leave without saying goodbye or even looking back, and in the process crush future US government tax revenues even more and send the deficit soaring more."

No, because the USA is NOT the UK.  Even if you leave, the IRS still wants 10 years income tax from you.  NO escape by running away.  For anyone, including billionaires.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:14 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Well said, it's a huge difference. Meanwhile Roman Abramovich (Russian billionaire), is resident in the UK, or is it Monaco and he justs lives here < 30 days/year? Sean Connery, Bond, James Bond lives in the Bahamas. Most European tennis players are Swiss residents. That Romney person has most assets in the Carribbean. I worked and lived in Belgium but paid UK taxes because they were less...

Whoever you are, wherever you are, tax is always less somewhere else but if you're rich, you win, wherever you are, or aren't.

Meanwhile, Syria has no internet: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/world/middleeast/in-syria-internet-and...

Bradley Manning in court: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/bradley-manning-keeping-sane...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:24 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Land of the free eh...

You wouldn't necessarily want to leave, just place your assets in a vehicle which is not taxed at home...

The Brits pay Estates taxes regardless of where you move to.

But you can get around that...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Is that before, or after Ogalala dries up?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:26 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

+1 And the "bread basket" of the US (& World) depends on the High Plains Aquifer. Folks in Wisconsin could go hungry, well in 50 years perhaps, or a lot less maybe, but they won't be thirsty ;O)

http://liferaydemo.unl.edu/web/sdn/bread_basket

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Obtaining fresh water is merely an engineering problem. It rains more in Singapore, than in the US Plain States.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Why wait for CONgress to force you to pay? You are 100% free to write a check to the Bureau of Public Debt...right THE fuck now.

Let's see that pen and checkbook, bitch.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

You understand that until spending is cut to meet revenues, making payments to pay off the national debt is like pouring out a bottle of water in the Sahara? You can sit there dumping bottles out all day, you are not going to make the desert wet.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

BKbroiler: so, you are ok with 39% taxes.  How about 45% ?   50 % ?   75 % ?   At what point is it not ok for you? 

And no, it takes a lot more than name calling to offend me. 

To quote Doug Casey, "A person who feels threatened by ideas and who responds with emotion is acting irrationally".


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:33 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

"At what point is it not ok for you?"

Is that word "not" in italics and the "45% ?   50 % ?   75 % ? " question mark overkill because you are responding with emotion?

To quote Doug Casey, "A person who feels threatened by ideas and who responds with emotion is acting irrationally".


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 03:55 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

it's called rhetoric, look it up.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:11 | Link to Comment mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Steal from THEM?

Let's review: 10.7 TRILLION deficit dollars blasted into the economy since 2001.  Where do you think it is now?  In poor peoples matresses?

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment A_S
A_S's picture

big businesses also provide jobs, services and goods

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 05:15 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

So what -- they won't be leaving the US. And if they did, all the more room for the little guy to compete.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:58 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

we're talking about the crooks here

All millionaires are crooks? (Who's the commie now?)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:48 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I know many tradesmen who's labor is extremely valuable. None of them are millionaires. Good luck with your argument.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:29 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

That was a complete non sequitur, LoP.

You can do better than that.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:37 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've been a tradesman, I'm not rich and I still don't hate them for being rich. I also don't hate the welfare mom who hits the lottery and becomes rich either. But I do notice the state really doesn't hate the rich as much as they would like everyone to believe. They just want the people to hate them.

Kinda weird that only the "statist rich" advocate for this kind class warfare don't you think?

Last I checked Buffet was still fighting the IRS yet he wants someone else to pay higher taxes...very odd ;-)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

the state really doesn't hate the rich as much as they would like everyone to believe

Exactly. The state needs the rich like the Arabs need Israel - they are essential to deflect anger and frustration.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:02 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

And the rich need the state like Israel needs the Arabs.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:17 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

The crooks are staying...they run the government.  The honest ones will and are leaving.  Just because they have money does not make them guilty.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:14 | Link to Comment mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

See if you can get a ride.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 00:20 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

I don't take free rides.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:27 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

There is millions of uninhabited hectares in Siberia!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:37 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

And they are welcome to them.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

and there are lots of really nice places throughout Asia...

They are welcome to those too...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:41 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

And humungous natural resources in Siberia. Yes please but can I be a commuter?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:51 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Exactly!

Let's be serious for a moment: back in the 1960s, the plutocrats didn't like the tax and budget proposals of the Kennedy administration (taxing offshore movements of money, taxing foreign subsidiaries of American-based multinationals, drastrically lowering that oil depletion allowance, first instituted in 1913 [along with the Federal Reserve Act (the Aldrich, or John D. Rockefeller's son-in-law act), the tax exemption for foundations so the rich could hide their money and ownership within the aegis of those foundations, and the 16th Amendment for taxation purposes], and the financial-intelligence-complex responded by murdering President Kennedy, murdering Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (who came out stridently on behalf of workers' rights, and anti-Vietnam War, etc.), and then Bobby Kennedy when he looked like a strong presidential possibility.

Also, they probably took out Malcolm X, and certainly took out Larry Stern, ace investigative reporter for WaPo, Dorothy Kilgallen (after her series of interviews with the jailed Jack Ruby, before she could write up her biggest story ever), and numerous others to cover up their evil.

Certainly, the gov't should be able to confiscate all their assets, and then allow the rich to vacate the premises --- might be an excellent withdrawal of psychopathological genes from the gene pool.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:25 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

so by what right does the government have to confiscate assets that were (in most cases) earned through hard work?  Hide their wealth?  Of course, woudn't you hide your money if people wanted to take it from you?  Sure, there are some rich scums out there who got their money illegally, so individually go after those who broke a law.  But, universal confiscation of wealth?  By what measure?  Who gets to define what is "too much" wealth? 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:18 | Link to Comment Cleve Meater
Cleve Meater's picture

It's not just about government's grabbing wealth... It's about government getting offended when you get too uppity. Check out what they are doing to Eustace Conway down in North Carolina. He's one of the most self-reliant, independent, freedom loving dudes in America today. He's also one of the last real mountain men. Such thinking is threatening as hell to government... He doesn't need them. That's why they are doing everything they can to shut him down.

Check it out: http://www.theresilientfamily.com/2012/11/who-is-eustace-conway-and-why-...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thanks for that link, it's a good read.

This is how predatory government often works… Even at the local level.

ahh, good to realise this, as some do.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

predatory government

Is there any other kind?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

most likely not.

yet there are some cheerleaders here for devolving to local gov'ts as a solution.

which is a tad too inbred for my tastes.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:12 | Link to Comment Wjunk
Wjunk's picture

Who?

The jealous, the lazy, the illegals and the dead, They all get to vote on what's for dinner in this brave new world.

That's who.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:31 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Karen Silkwood

Gary Webb

Danny Casolaro[1]

...those are just notable names though. Check out Syria [57 journalists killed], Serbia and so on. And let's not forget the environmentalists ~ An estimated 711 people were killed over the last 10 years. Last year alone 106 people were killed, according to a report by the human rights group Global Witness.

 

Bottom line: open information and sharing with as many people as possible is the only way to stop yourself from loneliness, suicidal thoughts and shooting yourself twice in the back of the head.

 

[1] Those interested in squids might want to look into this one a little closer

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

All except one nation.  

Little Iceland.  Probably the only place left where I would flee to to do work, rather than just laying down on some tropical beach and drinking mojitos.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

They wouldn't have you.  I know Icelanders.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:52 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Hmmmm.....I knew Snorri, and she did indeed have me!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Yeah, I knew a Finn, and they wouldn't have me (or anyone who doesn't speak Finnish) as a resident, either. As long as you fluently speak Old Norse, you're golden in Iceland.

Those far northern Europeans truly love themselves. And I don't say that as a dick. Not entirely.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

audgr bikkja

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:56 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

I call Shenanigans Mosley. Would you like to pay these tax rates in Iceland?

 

The rate of income and municipal tax for the income year 2012 is calculated on three levels;  


37.34% for income between  ISK 0-230.000 pr. month
40,24% for income between ISK 230.000-704.367 pr. month
46,24% for income exceeding ISK 704.367 pr. month 

Notice that the starting income to pay tax is ISK 0.00, all income is taxable

$7.95 = 1000 ISK

https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=files/isl/eng/i07.asp&c=isl&l=e...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

If you could, like John Carter, I bet the first thing you'd say is, "God dammit, this planet is fucked up too! Martian-backed securities, WTF?"

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Boeing Boy
Boeing Boy's picture

well, the uk is a socialist hell hole, so don't come here

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 02:00 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Yep, thanks Tony Bliar (war criminal) and GORDON Brown (fuckwit)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:19 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

A lot of countries are knee deep in debt, but leaving in non OECD country myself, I can still a lot of people without a bank account when I travel. So OECD drowning in debt yes, but OECD <> earth. It is just the end of Western dominance.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:46 | Link to Comment CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

The statistics don't say they're actually going anywhere.... there are simply fewer people reporting high incomes.  They might just be giving up.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

A cruise ship parked 11 miles offshore might make a nice tax haven..??

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:31 | Link to Comment poor fella
poor fella's picture

And target... But please wait for the Geethner/Blankmind/Daymon-awards ceremony for super bonus points.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:33 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You're waaaay too late for that piece of snark.

 

Since Jeff Bozo, the floating ships or owning your own third world country are for saps. First comment had it correct; the Red Planet is where it's at.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:49 | Link to Comment jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

I think I'll check out some of Jupiters moons.

(insert uranus joke here)

Just try and avoid hitching a ride with the Vogons.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 02:06 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

The Red Planet is where it's at. You might be right:

 

SpaceX Billionaire Elon Musk Wants A Martian Colony Of 80,000 People. $500.000 ticket

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/11/27/spacex-billionaire-elon...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Keep in mind, this is the guy behind the Fisker Karma. As well, they are talking about 10 people iniially, maybe 10 years from now. Also, keep in mind the actual conditions on Mars. 1/3 gravity, so you will lose calcium out of your spine like no tommorow. No ozone, no magnetisphere. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 02:08 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Waterworld. Buy your own VLCC at bargain prices. Cheap to fill, oil seller accepts Gold.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 04:13 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Have they figured out a way to make a corrosion-proof platform? That russian oil rig city in the Black Sea is what comes to my mind when I think of floating cities; as soon as the maintenance stops, whole sections of city start sinking beneath the waves.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Seems gold is not the only thing migrating East. ^^

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Paging Simon Black the Sovereign Man!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the rich aren't turkeys waiting around for a stuffing

nor should any of us be

Stop Paying Tax ....stuff the parasites this Christmas

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:21 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

message to criminal maggot billionaire kleptocrat assholes: don't come back!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

With the proper capital controls in place, we can be rid of them and still keep their money. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:22 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Yes, and make sure they renounce their citizenship and move out of the country.  Flag their passports, marking them as parasites, and keep their asses out.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

a 12B40 says I didn't spend years fighting red commie bastards to have them set up shop here. and yes, I include squishy socialists in the same catagory

you took an oath to the constitution, not dear leader, class warfare, wall street or the empire.  some who have money are the enemy, but having money does not make you the enemy. IFF. you better take a class on target identification before its too late. many of the first to flee will be those not under the protection of the thugacracy.

when the government becomes so repressive that police state tyranny is required to force compliance with its diktats, and fleeing becomes a realistic option, it's existence is no longer legally justified by the document that created it.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 13:06 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Then build your bridge to paradise and haul ass to a new 'land of the free' - if you can find one.

What commie red bastards were you fighting?  Me, I was engaged in trying to save my ass and those around me from a bunch of little brown peasants, who were essentially defending their land and way of life.  We were sent there on a mission by the military industrial complex, under a false flag justification, to advance corporate interests of the empire.  All my efforts then lead to today, where our fearless leaders think it is fine to privitize profits and socilaize losses for wealthiest, while turning middle America into a land of peasants.

...and just FYI, my target I.D. was pretty good.  I had to look at 'em when I pulled the trigger....not just blow 'em up from a distance.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.......POGO

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:27 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

what right do you have to claim their money?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Silly, of course I have no right.  Government, however, gives itself all kinds of rights and change rules and laws to suit its purpose.  If you believe you own something, you had better hope your government doesn't feel its need is greather than yours or you are liable to find that your property belongs to the state.  They can and often do make laws retroactive. There is no defense.  I wouldn['t lose sleep over some multimillionaire who lost his money though. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:26 | Link to Comment mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

When private wealth is created from public debt, I've got every right.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

You sayin confiscate bankrupt Solyndra's (etal) board members & CEO's wealth or just anyone who enriched themselves through the public debt system?

That position won't go over well with public employee unions ;-)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I fear the public employee unions are destined to be disappointed in a great many things.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 00:27 | Link to Comment LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

Sure do.  That public debt was created by the government, so you should be aiming for those people.  But it is quite an over-generalization to assume that everyone who has wealth obtained it by coherting with the government.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:51 | Link to Comment glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

First, I don't know what you think 'proper capital controls' are but capital controls in general tend to be negative for anyone.

Second, I'm in agreement with the prior poster...what right do we have to seize their wealth? None what so ever.

As has been said before, capital flows to where it's best treated, and in typical fashion politicians don't think about how their actions will create a reaction on the part of the populace. Anyone who falls in the category of income we're talking about who didn't take action to preserve their wealth by moving et al I would think stupid.

In the end it will be just like the UK where a high tax bracket actually created a losing situation for the govt coffers.

To act on your own best interest is natural and not something that others should treat negatively, I would expect you to do the same, as you should I, if the situation impacted me as such.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:10 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Mark my words.  Before this is done people will be handing over everything they have to get out and consider it well worth the price.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

The IRS claims it has the right to go after you, whether you renounce your citizenship or not.

So, you'll probably want to store your wealth in some other currency or perhaps some other thing, and be relatively hard to find.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:26 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Pretty much everywhere outside the US is "relatively hard to find."

Don't make a spectacle of yourself and get on with living.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

John Williams of Shadowstats inverview stating hyperinflation in USA guaranteed by end of 2014

http://www.silverdoctors.com/john-williams-current-president-and-congress-is-the-one-that-will-see-hyperinflation/#more-18050

Got gold?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:05 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

Has he ever dated a prediction before?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:22 | Link to Comment BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

Kanye don't pay no tax!
Jay-z don't pay no tax!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

If they DON'T  pay NO tax, then the only question is how much do they pay!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:23 | Link to Comment Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

who is John Galt?  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:24 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

YOU ARE!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:54 | Link to Comment bulbous_walrus
bulbous_walrus's picture

A crooked tax dodger.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:55 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Many, many different guys who would always give your mother the same name.

Poor devil, you still haven't figured it out.....

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:41 | Link to Comment Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Me. I "went Galt" right outta high school.

Nobody cared or noticed.

Eventually I had to get a job.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

Taxing the rich isn't about raising money. The real purpose is to convince the average voter that all those expensive government programs will be paid for by someone else.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:48 | Link to Comment calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

taxing the rich is just the cover story.

the real issue is that in the financial zone (and numerous others), most of the biggest winners have lied, cheated, bribed, defrauded and stolen their way to great wealth.

that's the real story withheld from the american people by the sycophantic, wealth-serving msm.

the only crime story they go out of their way not to tell.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

It's quite apparent that asking the wealthy "to pay a little bit more" or "pay their fair share" is just a mechanism for getting us closer to a full fledged wealth tax.

Seizure of 401k, Ira etc is another move in that direction.

Both of these will eventually come, without question.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Taxes are just a boot on your throat when they print 40bn a month. Taxes are about control, not raising revenue. It's not just the rich who are fleeing amerika, all the poor mexicans are running the border, the other way. You don't need to have money to flee tyranny, just morals. That little voice in your head, you got that for free, just like an obamaphone!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Pareto
Pareto's picture

I like this interpretation best, though I agree with all of the ZH's leaning towards the exits.  But thats how i feel about taxes....taxes that keep fucking going up and never down.  It is about control.  I save.  I'm frugal....so frugal in fact that we have an 80's television set that serves a dual purpose: (1) to watch TV and (2) security - because when any thug giving thought to robbing the place just has to look in my front window to see "nope there's fuck all worth grabbing here."  I make a decent salary with bonus and my wife has a good job too.  We don't feel like we're geting ahead at all.  So you work harder, save more, spend less (which at this point means having little to no social life at all), and little fucking changes in terms of wealth accumulation.  Taxes go up, price of food goes up, the trasport fees for your natural gas, phone, and electricty all go up, so that net net, you're the same or worse off depite the extra effort.

Natural gas wasn't a nickel over $3/gig last year.  We had the warmest fucking winter EVER, and our gas bill was fucking more than it was than in prior years.  Its bullshit.  Its like Carlin says "they got you by the fucking balls."  Its true.  Unfortunately, maybe I should care more about where the government pisses my dollars.  But, does it really count for anything worrying about it since nobody gives a fuck anyways?  Its why I focus on what I can do, and is why when I think of taxes, i'm not thinking revenues, I'm thinking of the measure of control it seems to have.  ZH's and austrians are right, it is a spending problem and its a problem because I'm NOT the one spending it!!  Over 6 months of the year I work for somebody else (Tax freedom day is somewheres around late June) - not sure who, but, I know it sure as hell isn't for myself.  This has to change.  When I spend more time working for somebody else than I do for myself, that's when capitalism becomes socialism - and there is nothing "free" about that. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

"Taxing the rich..."

Getting your money back from the super-crooks ain't about taxation, its called legal recovery.

Read:

Ellen Schultz's Retirement Heist,

Nomi Prins' Other People's Money,

Battling Wall Street: the Kennedy presidency, by Donald Gibson

Thy Will Be Done, by Gerard Colby with Charlott Dennett

The Fine Print, by David Cay Johnston

Treasure Islands, by Nicholas Shaxson

....

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

I am a tax accountant and 3 of my biggest clients left the US officially last year.  2 expatriated returning there US passport (went to singapore, no tax) and a UK Citizen who was resident in the US for 10 years moved to the bahamas (no cap gains tax).  Combined 3 million of ny taxes and 7 mil of federal tax gone.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:01 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Good for them!!!

Fuck the state.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:37 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I'm not an accountant, but nearly all my clients are worth north of $20mill.

With 5 or six billionaires in that group.People you've never heard of ,because that's how

they want it.All are actively moving capital and jobs offshore now.

If Obummer wants their money,he'd best bring in capital controls now.

Capital has never been more fungible than now,Plenty of countrys will gladly take

the owners of it.

Obummer talks, and money walks.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:39 | Link to Comment poor fella
poor fella's picture

Did they bring any jobs with them besides the need for maids and professional ass-wipers? Just saying, many of the biggest clients really don't produce anything except non-compete roadblocks to their competition and the production of overseas sweatshops..  If so, good fucking riddance.

Gout in the Bahamas doesn't sound like a lifestyle I'd enjoy.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

there's a difference between productive rich and parasite rich 

the parasite rich were grouped around Bummas Presidential table the other day at the White House. Propped up State pussies like Jef Immelt at GE

know the difference as one set impoverishes and cheats you, while the productive rich provides every advance in wealth, comfort and progress we enjoy since they took us out of caves

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:20 | Link to Comment poor fella
poor fella's picture

completely agree. 

There are those like Palmisano, Blankfein, and Mozilo that I will be toasting a quick and tidy expiration with any luck and justice in this universe of ours. (And that Honeywell bitch, damn that guy's been front and center for months).

It's amazing (and telling) that TBTF = TBT be indicted! 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:17 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Gee poor fella, you're throwing a wet blanket all over the myths and fantasies of the Rand disciples around here.

Actually clearing some of this useless wealthy dead wood out of our society might open things up for the rest of us as their boots come off our throats. Government isn't the only thing that can keep people down, but the Randians have this mythical free market fantasy where wealthy folks compete on the same playing field as everyone else, and they ALL built their wealth through hard work, fair play and free market principles. Such is the nature of a religion.

Besides the government they hate so much has proven to be a useful tool for the extremely wealthy, although their hatred strangely only extends to the government and not those pulling their strings. These folks usually are stuck in the Cold War mentality still whining endlessly about communism and socialism when fascism, and predatory crony capitalism and oligarchy are the obvious threats we are facing.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 01:14 | Link to Comment poor fella
poor fella's picture

When one hears the wax poetic from a like-minded being regarding the backdrop of corruption that's becoming the American and global norm - I find a smile. + that!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-28/hump-day-humor-4-fun-facts-2012...

 

What's the share of Banks on S&P earnings? If bankers leave to Singapore (lot of free space to buy...errrr..rent), because of taxation, what could be better for the country?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

I design and build homes for wealthy people and this policy of taxing the rich is hurting my business andmy employees

Wealthy people are not investing in the usa

These clients also happen to be good moral people that are easy to work with and allow a person to make a profit

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 05:56 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

"These clients also happen to be good moral people that are easy to work with and allow a person to make a profit"

If they have morals how did they get rich, win a lottery?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:27 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

If the Stones and Beatles can split (and they did) anyone can!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:28 | Link to Comment TulsaTime
TulsaTime's picture

I call bullshit on the mass exodus of millionaire greed-baggers.  They have to be in a place where the money and markets come together and they can have anything at anytime.  They just get a bigger incentive to employ the best and the brightest in financial loop-hole-ery.  There are always so many ways around everything that might pass, why else would all those bills go to hundreds and thousands of pages if not to keep the accountants busy?

And what crap is the fiscal cliff anyway?  The terrible thing and the thing to fix it are the same, raise taxes and cut spending.  Really?  I don't think that makes for a real crisis, except to financial types, so that make this just like the last time.  Wow, who would have thought they might try the same schtick again?   So off the cliff we go, and haircuts like scalp mutilation to the bond holders all.  This is going to hurt like hell, and we look forward to seeing every twist and turn of it for the tip of the tippy top. 

Shit gets real someday soon.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:02 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

"fiscal cliff" --- excellent point.

The media should be reporting on the chopping block, when we've rolled the mobile guillotines outside the congressional building and the US Supreme Court.....

Guillotine operation --- now that's my dream job.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:08 | Link to Comment Magnum
Magnum's picture

Maybe because you are not yourself aware of the opportunities which exist outside of America, or what life is like away from your own country of birth.  

I find USA to be still a good place but sliding directly in the wrong direction, so the only logical thought is to consider where to relocate.  

Twice in the last year I've spent a few weeks in parts of Europe and Scandinavia where it's nearly impossible to find a police officer.  Crime is nonexistent, as are desperate homeless beggars and general louts of society.  

So what's it like to live among white people behaving themselves?  Quite the feeling of freedom.  Great place to raise a family (I have kids).  US schools are no place for creativity, while their Scandinavian counterparts seem to have the right mix.  

Lots of pro-business policies exist overseas as well.  You can't even run a lemonade stand here without endless permits and fees--this is always what I laugh about when sheeple say America is land of the free.  The truth is opposite--compared to the rest of the world we have less freedom especially to do business.  Now is a golden era of opportunity for Americans of my generation to go start businesses in foreign countries, your American mind will find all kinds of opportunities. 

There is indeed a lot of talk about high taxes in Europe and Scandinavia but one has to look at the big picture of what legal residence and an eventual foreign citizenship entails.  The only main problem for now is that when traveling there I have to exchange wimpy dollars which have shrunk in strength over the last 20 years, it's beyond recognition.  This drastic fall in $ purchasing power overseas is just another reason why people with money see the writing on the wall and are planning to leave.  Or maybe it's just the eccentric ones like myself.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:23 | Link to Comment ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

There was more liberty in this country under George III, then there is today. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:28 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

So, you are a Socialist, and dream of living in the worker's paradise? ;-)

 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Too funny!

Magnum lauds the virtues of re-locating to Northern Europe, one of the most socialistic regions on the planet, and gets 18 up arrows with no downs.  Would someone like to tell us what the tax rates are there?

I point out this odd fact & get 9 down arrows.

This site sure has attracted it's share of morons over the past couple of years.  That old line from an Eagle's song comes to mind -- call someplace paradise & watch it die.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:26 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

"The terrible thing and the thing to fix it are the same, raise taxes and cut spending.  Really?  I don't think that makes for a real crisis, except to financial types, so that make this just like the last time. "

That's why CNBC is currently a 24/7 infomercial on the "fiscal cliff".   Regular scheduled pump & dump will continue once the status quo is kicked down the road.

 

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:29 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

When the wealthy leave Obama and the democrats can sieze 401Ks and IRAs (including Roths).

Raiding wealth from the remaining people and distributing it to the Free Stuff Army, their largest voting segment.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:53 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

my 60 year old golfing retired baby boomer asshole neighbor needs a wealth tax. He voted B.O and is now complaining about potentially paying higher taxes.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

if voters like your neighbour ever spent more than 20 minutes researching the lying charlatans they elect they'd be like the majority of voters and not vote at all

let's hear it for 'democracy' depending on a rice paper thin veneer of BS and sheeple sleep-walking through life to stay afloat

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The NWO operates on expectations.  Imagine, rich men all over the Western World are now contemplating moving to Third World Nation-States so they can save their pennies.

Then, there is a worldwide financial collapse, the World Bank, IMF, and BIS inform the Central Banks (who never had any alligence to their respected Sovereign States they governed the money supplies for) they will now institute a "One World Currency".  This will mean it doesn't matter where you live.  There will be no more seperate constitutions.  There will be a One World Order.

But since the rich men of the world had already concidered leaving their homes they will say, "No big deal!  I was already not thinking like a citizen anymore!"

This is exactly why Mark Carney was appointed Chairman of the BoE.  Because soon there will be no more boundaries.  Soon there will be one world of equal oppurtunity concerning monetary value.  These expectations are now being tempered.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:34 | Link to Comment FranSix
FranSix's picture

So take a job that is surviveable, but low on wages, be part of the 99%, and you will be considered to pay taxes on your salary, and your capital gains will not see 50% taxes, but be taxed at your tax rate based on wages.  I can see a Will Farrel movie coming on.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Zippedy DOO DAA/ I just exited a "small jet" , fuck heads!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:37 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

capital flees to where its treated best.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:38 | Link to Comment FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Meanwhile the man in the street pays a good 65% in direct and indirect taxes with no chance of lowering them and little chance of upping sticks, because the taxes are designed to just about let him live and no more.

...and Zero Hedge, what's with the deliberate sensationalism? Read it more carefully, they either moved abroad, or more likely, had their accountants scheme away until their taxable incomes magically were less than a million. It's not as if any would have been paying the full 50% tax, or anything like it.

EPIC FAIL

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment rowntree
rowntree's picture

This was a very poorly researched article.  It refers to the number of returns filed in the year with over 1 million in income.  However, the base fiscal year had the FTSE going up by about 45%, while it only went up by ~5% the following year.  Independent of tax rates, there would be a much larger number of returns filed making large sums of money the first year than the second.

I also would like tax rates to stay low, but this isn't really support for that.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 19:51 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

So the Central Bank should juice the stock market to raise tax revenues, that would be up there with giving free money to banks so that they can give big bonuses.

Regardless, raises taxes appears not to have raised revenue as was claimed it would by the fair share fucktards across the pond, regardless of whether the cause was exodus, going Galt, of realized capital gains on equities (which could be verified by the muppets if they were really interested in the answer, as opposed to a redundant effort to make Gordon Brown look like fool.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Orly
Orly's picture

"Regardless, raises taxes appears not to have raised revenue as was claimed..."

 

Seems you're starting to listen to David Stockman.

That's good.  At least then you'll get off your silly soapbox about paying taxes that are properly owed to a sovereign nation.

There may be hope for you yet, Redneck.

:D

__________

Oh, and Brown did what he had to do to allow the price of gold get to this price level in order to sink the Chinese and enslave the Indians.  It's all in the plan.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

Well this is the Telegraph and they consistently put a pro-Tory spin on everything (they're even known as the Torygraph).

Since the Tories (the party in Government) reduced the top tax rate from 50% back to 45% and there has been increasing noises from pretty much everybody about how they're the party of the rich and the bankers, disconnected from the common-man's reality and that the austerity seems to be only for the riff-raff (the only group whose real income is going up is the top 1%), it's likelly this article was researched using the "this is what we want to prove, so get things that help prove our theory and ignore the ones that disprove it"-method and put out as a whitewash.

Remember, this is Britain: most newspapers are just propaganda mouthpices.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 05:52 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

"Remember, this is Britain: most newspapers are just propaganda mouthpices."

+1000

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

I believe the article referenced income, not cap gains in the filings. I could be wrong.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Just another reason for more government jobs to chase tax cheats.

 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment littleguy
littleguy's picture

Sounds like Labour logic to me. Coming to a socialist European utopia near you soon.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

where will they receive their income then?  us sourced income is taxed here.  not to mention, did this happen under the clinton years?  or maybe there are less millionaires in the uk partly because they got their face ripped off from the recession only to be subsequantly bailed out.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Why someone would leave the Carcass of London, after having stolen enough to cause suspicion, with a way out that doesn't include getting vaporised, to a sunnier clime where a million buys a billion,  etc..

is not a fair comparison, is it?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment TroyPDX
TroyPDX's picture

The statists always go for the most simplistic solution to any problem. Here that will be capital controls and perhaps even making expatriation illegal. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment Blazed
Blazed's picture

"The statists always go for the most simplistic solution to any problem. Here that will be capital controls and perhaps even making expatriation illegal."

 

Yeah, he will learn to not let them out, communist style!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Cultural Capital
Cultural Capital's picture

Honest to god, I plan on adopting a child overseas instead of bringing a child into this world with the burden of US citizenship.  FATCA is going to do more harm than 9-11.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi5hZn0ykgA 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

But...see...the SPENDING issue is never going to be addressed as long as Fedgov can continue to finance unlimited deficits.

Raising taxes and driving the rich out of the country and dropping revenue may turn out to be a step in the right direction.

EITHER the deficit climbs tremendously and Congress starts thinking a new approach will be required, OR many of the biggest criminals who've been ripping off the country go away and we continue muddling along with the current bullshit.

Where's the downside?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment vegas
vegas's picture

Like this is somehow a surprise? The corrupt pols think increased taxes won't change behavior; what a bunch of fucking morons. Amerika gets what it deserves because the "have nots" have just recently decided that the country needs to be a socialist banana republic. Let the brain drain and capital flight begin; long live John Galt.

 

http://vegasxau.blogspot.com

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I think after a certain level of wealth creation,  people shouldn't be taxed at all - say maybe 5 million in assets, and you never pay another iota of tax again. It would encourage productive behavior. All capable people would get rich. All takers would need to FOAD. Everybody (that counts) wins.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

the spice of life comes from hunger and adventure; when u are in the realm of oligarchs you work according to the famous quote : making your first million is an achievement, going from 100 to 110 is inevitable.

It kills the hunger and the adventure of being a trail blazer, when u get there.

Witness our current times : our millionaires of old  are now billionaires and they are all on the rollercoaster going to hell! They can't help themselves in their greed gone mad.

When you lose the sense of value, you lose yourself and your millions. But Mankiewicz never told us that! 

Ah to go back to the days of the barefoot contessa of my childhood! 

I'm sure all those shills would love that. Time's arrow only goes one way, we are not in that movie!

And, taxes are a man made brake to stop the hubris from spiking; like it has now; to spread the capital manure around for it to breed more new sprouts.

We don't do that anymore.  We just play at the Casino more n more like addicts on the roller coaster.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

You (nearly) always make me smile.

+1

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Orly
Orly's picture

And speaking of the Barefoot Contessa...

You must try her meatloaf!

 

Ina Garten

Ingredients
  • For meatloaf:

  • 2 tablespoons good olive oil

  • 2 cups chopped Spanish onion (1 large)

  • 1 1/2 cups small-diced celery (2 stalks)

  • 1 pound ground beef

  • 1 pound ground veal

  • 1 pound ground pork

  • 1 tablespoon chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley

  • 1 tablespoon chopped fresh thyme leaves

  • 1 tablespoon chopped fresh chives

  • 3 extra-large eggs, lightly beaten

  • 2/3 cup whole milk

  • 2 tablespoons kosher salt

  • 1 tablespoon freshly ground black pepper

  • 2 1/2 cups panko (Japanese bread flakes)

  • Garlic Sauce (recipe follows)

  • For garlic sauce:

  • 1/2 cup good olive oil

  • 10 garlic cloves, peeled

  • 2 cups chicken stock, preferably homemade

  • 3 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature

  • Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper

Preparation

For meatloaf:

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees.

Heat the olive oil in a large (12-inch) saute pan over medium heat. Add the onion and celery and cook for 5 to 7 minutes, stirring occasionally, until the onion is translucent but not browned. Set aside to cool slightly.

Place the beef, veal, pork, parsley, thyme, chives, eggs, milk, salt and pepper in a large mixing bowl. Put the panko in a food processor fitted with the steel blade and process until the panko is finely ground.

Add the onion mixture and the panko to the meat mixture. With clean hands, gently toss the mixture together, making sure it's combined but not compacted.

Place a piece of parchment paper on a sheet pan. Pat the meat into a flat rectangle and then press the sides in until it forms a cylinder down the middle of the pan (this will ensure no air pockets). Bake for 40 to 50 minutes, until a thermometer inserted in the middle reads 155 to 160 degrees. Remove from the oven and allow to rest for 10 minutes. Slice and serve hot with the Garlic Sauce.

For garlic sauce:

Combine the oil and garlic in a small saucepan and bring to a boil. Lower the heat and simmer for 10 to 15 minutes, until lightly browned. Be careful not to burn the garlic or it will be bitter. Remove the garlic from the oil and set aside. (I save the oil for vinaigrettes.)

Combine the chicken stock, butter and cooked garlic in a medium saucepan and bring to a boil. Lower the heat and cook at a full boil for 35 to 40 minutes, until slightly thickened. Mash the garlic with a fork, whisk in 1/4 teaspoon salt and ½ teaspoon pepper, and taste for seasonings. Spoon the warm sauce over the meatloaf.

Choose firm heads of garlic that have no green sprouts.

Serving Size

Makes 6 to 8 servings

___________

Why not hijack the thread with something delish, eh, falak?  Maybe make a great holiday meal?

:D

And by the way, tonight will be my last on ZH for a while.  I am glad to share this recipe with you, though.  :D

I have some matters of family to deal with over the next few months- maybe six or so- but I'll see you on the other side!

Live warm and live happy, falak!  Taste life!  (As I know you always do...)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 05:07 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

sounds like a great meal to have with red wine or universally adapted bubbly!

Live warm is a nice thought Orly, I intend to put it into practice, nothing like a good sweat, to open the appetite.

As we enter this month of december with its double feast at the end, I have the opportunity to enjoy a family birthday celebration at the beginning; so yes, december is a good month to taste life as we shiver on the outside!

Happy family reunions to you and see you in 2013; if not before, happy new year! 

viva la vida! 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 05:50 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

But if i'm not richer than other people how will they know i'm superior to them?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!