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Overnight Futures 'Fat-Finger' $750mm Notional In One Minute

Tyler Durden's picture


First we saw some shenanigans in Gold and Silver this morning, followed by some very jerky moves in S&P 500 futures off the lows. Tonight while everything was gliding along quietly, someone in their infinite wisdom decided that 0005ET was the perfect time buy around 11,000 S&P 500 e-mini contracts (or around $750mm notional exposure); instantly devouring the entire stack of orders. This move was not in any way followed by any other asset class (EURJPY twitched a little at it) and as far as we can see there was/is absolutely no news to accompany the flash-smash. That is all...


The early evening Abe chatter had come and passed without event so this is unrelated to that. Surely noone left a resting buy-stop order at 1410 for 11,000 contracts?


Why not wait til Europe came in? Why not wait til the US came in? If you want buy $775mm notional exposure - wait for a pull back to VWAP? Or was it forced buybacks?



and a look at the tick-data tells the story - a totally human-looking trading pattern...NOT! looks like perfectly executed stop run...



Equity futures were alone in their exuberance...




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Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:44 | 3019473 prains
prains's picture

OPRAH just bought twinkies, case solved

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:48 | 3019485 B-rock
B-rock's picture

Here's hoping they get their face ripped off.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:59 | 3019495 strannick
strannick's picture

Wish for once these low-volume, not-for-profit, after-hours, market-moving futures traders would buy the gold and sell the SnP.

Funny how their fat fingers never get that backwards.

Surely everyone's in on this by now, and we are all nudging and giggling, no?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:03 | 3019844 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:06 | 3019853 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Fire the Fed and their interest rates, force the treasury to print the god damned paper.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:26 | 3019964 French Frog
French Frog's picture

It makes sense to buy if you've had advanced warning that the preliminary GDP figure out in 15 mins will be higher (than previous) or even higher than expectations.

I fear the shorts are going to get roasted again today (sigh)

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:30 | 3020000 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

It's almost as if they wanted the contracts but didn't want the market to go up. A move like this was sure to be faded and now it has, but they still have 11000 contracts that they can sell at an opportune time. Someone's prepping to start a crash? Think if they'd sold those all at once yesterday at 10AM? And Harry Reid was the speaker not What's-His-Name? Deep currents are moving beneath the surface.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:48 | 3019569 Biggvs
Biggvs's picture

...and about 90 minutes later we're back where we started, below 1410. I pity the poor souls who got stopped out on that nonsense!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:39 | 3019615 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

You really just need to get short and stay short.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:47 | 3019619 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Or not play.

Just a thought.


(or get laid, drunk-- a nice ale or porter-- you like herbage? toke of the smartest guys I know can do truly advanced math I can't possibly comprehend while higher than a blimp....pick your poison/therapy/catharsis/self-medication)

There'll always be opportunities with better odds. Honestly, unless you're networked in with Kleptocracy, you're odds frankly suck at present. They don't internally call them Muppets in mocking emails (as they take their money, while pretending to "advise them in competence & ethical manner" for nothing).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:56 | 3019635 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

Thanks, I feel like I just watched an Irvine Welsh flash. I always have positions on. I'm a daytrader.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:23 | 3019666 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 "I'm a daytrader."

lulz, I guess you'd have to be. Try harder and go for the HFT.

A tribute to you and all:

Mixologist - Music Video [HD] - YouTube

Goodnight bitchez.,.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:06 | 3019848 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



He took his ball and went home.......can he do that?


Dude I just plugged in this morning......thanks for handing me this lump of crap.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:24 | 3019881 More_sellers_th...
More_sellers_than_buyers's picture

Amazing! I used to carry a big stick, and it was nice, but I always had the fear that at any minute a guy with a much bigger stick would take my head off.  Must be nice to totally control any market you want.  Hell these tool bags arent even interested in making money. They obviously just want and have total control.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:46 | 3019621 1fortheroad
1fortheroad's picture

Shorts get their face ripped off, time and time again. Why would I want that.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:49 | 3019623 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Like in '87? The '70s? 2000? 2008?

You a stalker, brah?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:08 | 3019648 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

This market is about to eat up some shorts.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:15 | 3019661 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Shorts, it's what's for breakfast!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:15 | 3019662 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

ok. As long as you're sure. Toss a coin for some, etrade baby, tea leaves, whatever.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:29 | 3019889 tetsujin
tetsujin's picture

or just have no stops, more profits. Ironic isn't it?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:44 | 3019476 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

I felt a disturbance in the Force, like ten thousand little algos all cried out at once, and then were suddenly silenced.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:32 | 3019551 onelight
onelight's picture

Time to BTFD?


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 05:27 | 3019716 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

More like one little algo, haywire and off the reservation.

Wait until it's owner discovers what it's been up to...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:46 | 3019478 Cdad
Cdad's picture

The whole session today...or yesterday, I guess...was FUBAR.  I took my S&P short off today, but based on this post, I am thinking that was a mistake.

What a total joke this market has become.  An agreement to fix the fiscal cliff....yeah...what agreement?  What is the solution for $16.3 trillion in debt?  Still waiting for the answer to that one.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | 3019483 prains
prains's picture

What is the solution for $16.3 trillion in debt?


W . A.  R

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:50 | 3019492 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Uh...we have been at war for 12 years.  Hasn't helped.  Next...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:57 | 3019502 prains
prains's picture

Uh......No you've been in oil kleptocracy for the last twelve years, the real shit hasn't hit your face yet

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:18 | 3019526 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

16.3 trillion USD debt?

How quaint.

Query: Can a sane person, knowing the actual numbers involved, truly believe this is resolvable absent total and absolute default?

Obama: 'I Plan To Get The Long-Term Deficit Under Control'

Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher calculated that the government's unfunded liability for Social Security and Medicare alone ***comes to a staggering $99.2 trillion***, or $330,000 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.


It's an impossible figure, but still on the low side compared to this estimate of $222 trillion published at Bloomberg.


The Deficit President spoke Wednesday about his plans to solve the fiscal cliff.


Key phrase is long-term.

The national debt has grown by $6 trillion since the Spender-In-Chief took office, and four more $1 trillion deficits are on the way before Obankster leaves Washington in 2016.


Check the debt clock and decide for yourself.  Is there anything, anything at all, that appears 'under control' to you? 


And guess what?  Now that Democrats have convinced Boehner and Senate Republicans to support higher taxes, Krugman, Reich and other Keynesian troglodyte thought leaders have begun to call for increased spending until the economy improves.

That's right, people.


More beneficial, well-spent, never-wasteful, federal stimulus is on the way.

Seriously, read this, immediately.


Click to read more ...



Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:19 | 3019536 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

$16.3 trillion is US Corporation debt. Not the American peoples debt.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:22 | 3019542 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Then that "full faith & credit" thing is even less substantive than I thought it was (and I didn't think that possible).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:31 | 3019550 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

This is what gets the real USA sovereign people out of paying the money on that debt;

The 16 Trillion Dollar District of Columbia Corporation Debt Is Not National Debt!

The debt of the Federal Government Of The United States Of America Corporation as Enacted is theirs and theirs alone! You Don't Have to Pay on It!

The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 aka “An Act to provide a Government for the District of Columbia (41st Congress, 3d Sess., ch. 62, 16 Stat. 419, enacted 1871-02-21) is an Act of Congress, which revoked the individual charters of the City of Washington, the City of Georgetown, and the County of Washington and created a new city government for the entire District of Columbia. The legislation effectively merged what had been separate municipalities within the federal territory into a single entity. It is for this reason that the city, while legally named the District of Columbia, is still commonly known as Washington, D.C. However, this act was abolished in 1874, and while the name did not change, the territorial Governor was replaced with a three-member Board of Commissioners appointed by the President. This system existed until 1974 when the District of Columbia Home Rule Act allowed for District residents to elect their own mayor.

District of Columbia Home Rule Act - As Amended Through 1997

The Stock Share Holders of the Washington D.C. Corporation are alone responsible for the 16 trillion dollar debt, made so by the Act of 1871 and subsequent Act revisions.

It also follows, The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created a Banking Corporation with Stock Share Holders.

The accumulated debt held on the Federal Reserve Corporation's balance sheet belongs to The Stock Share Holders of the Federal Reserve Corporation, and the owners of its Member Banks, period.

District of Columbia Act of 1871 Defacto formed 1

District of Columbia Act 1871 De Facto formed 2

District of Columbia Act 1871 De Facto formed 3


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:39 | 3019897 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I've got an idea......let's borrow money from China to give to Egypt and Libya.


Beeper just went off......time for another bong hit.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:44 | 3019898 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Hey who's screwing with my beeper again? No way that much time has expired. I'm not that high!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:35 | 3020012 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture


Thx for the post. I've read these before, and it explains much.

I guess the real question now is: what is the real legal status of the rest of the states and the sheeple?

Have you noticed that everytime a public official is talking to the sheeple, and has an "American Flag" behind him (or goes into a courtroom, etc.), the flag is fringed with gold colored braid? Is this not a flag of Admiralty, aka a flag of war? The real "peoples flag" in plain and unfringed.

It looks to me like we are an occupied country!

Hide it in plain sight, noone will notice.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 11:37 | 3020493 Overfed
Overfed's picture

If you think that is gonna' stop them from garnishing your wages (income and SSI taxes, etc.), or taking your shit via property taxes, eminent domain, and forfeiture laws, I have a nice bridge I'd like to sell.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:34 | 3019555 Cdad
Cdad's picture

No argument from me, brother Truth, on your numbers.  However, and for the purpose of being concrete, I choose to focus on the hard debt.  Rather than getting into an argument about future liabilities, against future growth in the economy, etc...I choose to simply ask over and does one fix $16.3 trillion in hard debt?  

Of course, the answer is that you don't...not with the current crop of promise makers and kleptocrats.  John Boehner is not going to fix this issue.  President Zero has even less chance.  Unless I am missing something...those guys would have to send home half of the current roster of Federal employees...for starters...and without their pensions.  Doing this while closing entirely redundant bureaucratic entities, of course.  Who thinks they are going to do this?  On top of that, you'd have to start cutting away at entitlements...while also radically cutting the military.  Maybe then, the hard debt number could begin to reverse.

As for the future liabilities, this nation will have collapsed economically before those are due, and so you could make the case that those figures will actually turn out to be zero.

Perhaps, some of the criminal syndicate's "best and brightest" would like to chime in here, and tell us all how President Zero and the rest of the current losers in DC are suddenly going to go all Calvin Coolidge here...and explain today's ramp fest on the supposed agreement on the fiscal cliff.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:46 | 3019562 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

To be honest, I don't even know what "hard debt" means, anymore (maybe I never did, or maybe there is no actual, definitive meaning).

What's "hard debt?" The debt that the U.S. Government claims is outstanding? What does it include and not include?

Does "hard debt" = the official, claimed, alleged national debt?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:50 | 3019570 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Com'mon brother know what I am referring to.  If the US wanted to be debt free tomorrow, it is the amount it would have to pay off...instead of rolling it all over endlessly, via Ben Bernanke's that he has completely debauched the T bill market.

As for whether that is the true number...I have no doubt that the actual number is larger.  But let us not get lost in the maze of it all.  Again...$16.3 trillion is currently owed.  Tell me how to fix that under current circumstances.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:10 | 3019575 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You know I'd never get semantically tricky with you for the sake of trying to be clever. I wouldn't even do that with HarryWang of House of Urinal Cake fame.

I honestly do not know that "if the U.S. wanted to be debt free tomorrow" it could do so by "pay[ing] off" an amount equal to 16.3 trillion USD.

We (or maybe just I) take all these things as such assumed concepts & gospel like mechanics that I think few of us actually take the time to ponder the basic fundamentals as to how such presumed actions would/could work.

To push this further, in case I'm not perfectly clear, how can one be sure that payment of 16.3 trillion USD tomorrow (assuming that were possible absent an instantaneous printing of that amount of FRNs, which actually doubles that amount of debt, but I digress) retires the debt, or to whom, or for what?

Would such an act, assuming it's possible, satisfy the face value of treasury notes outstanding to holders of such instruments? Then maybe so. I think.

p.s. - But satisfying that face value of  tnotes outstanding (assuming holders of those notes will accept pre-payment of principal + interest, right?) will actually require floating an equal amount of new debt under the current system, correct? See?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:21 | 3019596 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Listen brother...I mostly come to ZH for bond market I am not that guy...and then end up posting on equities...which is my bag.  However, I think I would feel comfortable suggesting that the debt would be payed back by covering the T bills, owned by various nations, banks, and individuals.  How would that happen...redemption, repo, reverse repo...and a whole bunch of insider bond shit I know very little about... I suspect.  Not that this is my actual to pay it all off tomorrow.  My point would the losers in DC attempt to stem the current deficit spending and halt these endless T bill auctions?  

As for how you would do that, I am presuming a sane approach...meaning that revenues would be available to cover the bonds.  If you attempt to inflate away that 16 trillion dollar deficit, as the criminal syndicate seems to think you can do, you will have a collapse of the currency, and I am presuming that this is not a desirable outcome.

I take you at face value, brother Truth.  I mean no sarc to you.  I am actually trying to simplify the argument...while you are currently "exploding" or expanding it...all the various pieces of it.  

To be clear, my point is to simply focus on that number  16 trillion.  If you do that, while also looking at the ever growing budget and budget deficit, you quickly realize simply cannot be done.  You cannot pay that figure back...probably ever.  Not unless you got radical with the austerity axe to make those revenues available.

And in the meantime...and again...the current crop of folks in DC are losers, kleptomaniacs, and generally incompetent people.  We would not be in this situation were it not the case.  And...they have...four weeks.  And the stock market ramped on "moving towards an agreement."  Yeah.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:28 | 3019603 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I agree with pretty much everything you said, and would tell you if I didn't.

I'm just unsure of how 16.3 trillion, which is the lowest amount anyone can claim is owed (as it's per the government's official tally), gets "paid off" in anything remotely resembling a reasonable timeline, absent a de facto default (aka massive inflation and debasement of the currency that is used to repay that debt, however one wishes to describe that inflation/debasement), let alone how repayment of the much higher estimates (using alternative, higher figures as to what the actual debt equals) gets repaid absent the same inflation/debasement requirement (more thusly & robustly).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:47 | 3019622 Cdad
Cdad's picture

You are would not get paid off in any reasonable timeline.  However, if REVENUES were being used to pay down debt, I would presume that T bill auctions could finally in we would not need to gather in more and more debt while in the process of paying it down.

I don't think paying off debt with revenues would be inflationary.  In fact, I suspect it would have a deflationary effect...leaving less Fed dollars rolling around chasing goods, projects, what have you.  Hell, you might even get "investment" back in equity markets, as there would be less dollars chasing debt auctions, repos, and f'n "reopened 10s."  F'n bond guys...they have their own damn secret decoder ring club.

I don't think paying off debt with revenues would be dollar negative...but instead, the opposite, as dollars would be leaving the system as debt is drawn down.  



Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:59 | 3019637 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

But how can revenues be used to pay down debt in the context where deficit spending and further debt monetization is the only pillar supporting the Ponzi?

There's not only no surplus revenue, there's massive net negative revenue annually, continuously, long term projected.

Similarly, if the government takes the (necessary at some point, and better sooner rather than later, but it won't happen) medicine of actually cutting the budget in real terms enough to not have to resort to massive deficit spending, the Ponzi collapses (but can be rebuilt with a more solid foundation, though this won't happen, again).

I guess there's always that possibility of returning to real GDP growth of 3.5%+ (or ideally, higher), which could stoke the underlying economy and increase tax remittance in sufficient volume to negate the need for deficits.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!





Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:08 | 3019649 Cdad
Cdad's picture all of this, the primary ponzi scheme [the US banking system] would likely not continue to exist in its current form...which is joyous to think about.

As for growing our way out of it...I assure you, if somehow a miracle occurred, and DC sent home half its work force and closed down even half of its redundant would see a sharp rebound in the real economy.  Of that...I am absolutely sure.  Calvin Coolidge Rocks!

I am turnin' in, brother Truth.  Catch you tomorrow for another wonderful rampapalooza.

Cdad out...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:16 | 3019664 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Later, mack daddy.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:21 | 3019875 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


Calvin Coolidge. A genius that stopped the 1920's depression dead in it's tracks.


Good for the country....bad for his legacy.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:46 | 3019915 jimijon
jimijon's picture

Gentlemen, gentlemen... don't you understand? As that great patriot Dick Cheney once said, "deficits don't matter!"

But, upon further reflection, I say... "They don't until they do!"

So relax. Buy some Choom penny stocks and play the prohibition trend.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:32 | 3021518 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Yeah, there really for real isn't a fix.  Austerity only works if you're not already past the point of no return.  That's why it's not working in Spain/Greece.  We are in the same boat, ie., bankrupt.

I know a lot of people like to focus on the headline numbers near the top, but I would like to direct everyone's attention to the bottom of the page, assets vs. liabilities.

Total assets:  $87.4 trillion

Total liabilities:  $121.7 trillion

Gap:  $34.3 trillion

That, my friends, is bankruptcy, period.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:51 | 3019629 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Krugman and Reich

Names to be remembered when those who have spent or advocated spending the country into astronical debt are being tried for treason.  

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:56 | 3019634 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

The traditional/historic way out of debt is to devalue the currency. Ben is expert at titrating this at 8-12% inflation per year....menaing your loss of purchasing power 8-12% per year in cash, CDs or Treasuries.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:21 | 3019668 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Krugman, Bernank & Reich, a collective brain trust for the ages.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:07 | 3019519 hwwesq3
hwwesq3's picture

The answer: Fed buys maturing debt on its maturity date, shreds it.  No increase in wealth, debt slowly begins to decline.

Assumptions: Congress keeps deficit under $2 trillion per year until debt declines below agreed upon percentage of GDP, and Fed retains its current authorities.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:19 | 3019537 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Please don't try to give rational answers around here. The monkeys here need a steady dose of conspiracy's, maniacal plots, evil doings, world take overs, and don't forget ... throw in a Jewish financier, or two, and then you'll be making some good horse sense ...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:39 | 3019554 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So total, unmitigated & complete "fixing" of the equity markets, in a clear and outright manner, by the Federal Reserve, is not only now specifically allowed, but encouraged, endorsed and might as well be advertised in full page ads in the WSJ and in neon signage, but is RATIONAL?

WTF, bitchez, equity markets will never fall again, and not only that, will rise exponentionally, on the pixie dust of fiat manna printed at zero cost basis and plowed relentlessly and endlessly directly into equities, forever and ever.

I'm sold. Long every index with 31x leverage. This IS BETTER THAN WINNING THE POWERBALL! Long term capital gains tax treatment on investments made with uber leverage and held longer than 12 months @ 15% that's repeatable in a loop guaranteed sure beats a 36% tax on a lump sum, one time, 260 million payout!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:44 | 3019563 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I'm with you.  Yeah, just print money, buy bonds, and then throw away the bonds.  Perfect!  There wouldn't be any unintended consequences for completely debauching the currency to the tune of 16 sir.  Just make it go away on shredded paper.

Brilliant!  Buying Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, Netflix and Amazon in the premarket tomorrow.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:51 | 3019571 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yes, that whole "for every winning position/trade there must be a losing position/trade" concept is obsolete now.

There's no need for market makers to ensure liquidity anymore, either!


Utopia, unlimited wealth, skittle shitting unicorns!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:55 | 3019574 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Na ... just stick with those 3x bear etf's. So how's that been working out for ya?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:04 | 3019578 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Who said I'm short?

Why do you presume anyone has to be long or short at any given time, absolutely?

You assume/presume/mis-sume a lot?

When I put a position on, do you want me to notify you, and if so, how?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:12 | 3019584 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Your the one with the comment "Buying Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, Netflix and Amazon in the premarket tomorrow."

Better to make money than commiserate ... Maybe you should buy those stocks.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:14 | 3019588 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


Are you sure I said that, or are you assuming again?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:23 | 3019600 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Ya ... Jeeze, how could I be so wrong as to assume something. Knowbody does that around here ...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:30 | 3019605 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Let's not make too much out of what you claim I said. We all make mistakes, in the event I didn't say that.

I'm just making the point that you seem to assume many things, and many of those things seem to be blatantly incorrect.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:51 | 3019627 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Blatantly incorrect according to your assumption ...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:31 | 3019606 Cdad
Cdad's picture

No...I said that but forgot my /sarc

Bang on with that kind of response, the suggested notion that we are all long inverse ETFs, and simply are posting our thoughts here on this grave matter because we were on the wrong side of the trade.  It is a limited response, by a limited intellect, coming from some sad cubicle in Hong Kong, DC, or perhaps Quantico.

It is called "debunking."  When faced with an argument one cannot fend off, simply attempt to debunk the argument itself...or better yet, attempt to impeach your adversary's character.  Some folks think of that as clever.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:36 | 3019612 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I know, right?

It's as if some people never met another person who decided to sit an obviously and massively rigged game of poker out.

Then again, there are those who couldn't help but still ante up because compulsive gambling is a real addiction, and that's how their brains are physically hardwired.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:48 | 3019624 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Wow, Cdad ... I will have to build an altar dedicated to your super superior intellect, of which none of us can compare. One only wonders what you are doing posting on web site the likes of this one. Luckily for all of us you do ...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:51 | 3019628 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Looks like we have another Chinese troll here. Who was that other Chinese troll? Probably recycled. Let's keep him, Tylers.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:00 | 3019639 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Why do you assume I am Chinese? Is there a presumption mixed in there somewhere?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:11 | 3019650 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Burned! And with my own tactic, too. You're wiley. I like that...keeps me on my toes.

(Technically, I did say "[p]robably]" but I won't take advantage of that loophole, because it's weaksauce)

p.s. - I even "upvoted" your sorry ass.

p.s. II: Can you disprove you're that Chinese Troll recycled? Hmmmm?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:11 | 3019653 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I choose to negate your sympathy up vote...with a downtick on Chi Dog.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:12 | 3019655 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

It's funny, but I actually got long China yesterday. Something I haven't done since '07. I'm thinking it's a good omen, with your Chinese troll comment ...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:01 | 3019642 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Sure thing Chi dog...and make sure it is nice alter...preferably covered in gold leaf.  And candles...lots of candles.  Be sure to take a picture of it, too, and post it here when you are done.  I'll let you know if it is acceptable to me, or whether you should tear it down and rebuild it properly.

Chop Chop there Hong Kong...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:07 | 3019647 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Dam ... My covers blown. Oh God, You know ....

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:03 | 3019945 resurger
resurger's picture

When you have the Fed and TPTB on your side of the trade, its Easy to make money you douche!

BUY BUY BUY, like that 16 years old trader, this thing is broken beyond repair...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 09:36 | 3020017 dirtyfiles
dirtyfiles's picture

Are you Pavlov's dog?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:33 | 3019552 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

What is the solution for $16.3 trillion in debt?

raise taxes on a small fraction of productive citizens, resulting in maybe 5 days worth of federal spending, and declare that the problem is solved?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:46 | 3019479 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 If you can guess the direction a headless chicken will run next, you can be a futures trader.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:57 | 3019500 strannick
strannick's picture

It always runs from gold, towards the SnP

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:47 | 3019480 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

I love how I called the drop in gold and bought some. I saw an opportunity and shorted AAPL and SPY and got out at 7:15am PST. I love how this is posted on my twitter with time stamps and I love the fact that I can now make my rent for the month.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | 3019488 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Your mom will love when you move out of her basement.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:57 | 3019504 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

I don't live in her basement. I live on the beach in LA.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:03 | 3019513 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Are you recovered from the Deepwater Horizon spill there?  Be sure to include that in your tweets.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:19 | 3019534 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

You're thinking of a different ocean. Actually you're thinking of the gulf but I didin't say Mexico, Louisianna, Florida or anything close to that did I? California is on the west coast. The Deepwater spill was in the Gulf of Mexico.

Did this happen before you started watching the news and learning geography?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:22 | 3019541 Orly
Orly's picture

I think what he meant to say was, "Baja...


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:08 | 3019582 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

You are too dumb to insult.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:12 | 3019587 Orly
Orly's picture

Oh, come on.  At least try...

It's just the whole "follow me on Twitter" thing is a bit over-played, that's all.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:22 | 3019590 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

You couldn't follow me if you wanted to. Never gave you my twitter. Just said, "Twitter account."

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:27 | 3019602 Orly
Orly's picture

So when you said, "I love how this is posted on my twitter with time stamps and I love..."

You didn't mean for anyone to go to zevon investments # or whatever it is and try to follow you?

You were just "mentioning" it?  Do you own stock in Twitter or something?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:31 | 3019607 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

zevon investments is a discontinued blog I had of no relation to my twitter name. This is an old account.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:33 | 3019609 Orly
Orly's picture

But it's a new beard?  You drew that yourself, didn't you?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:36 | 3019613 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

Do you not know who Warren Zevon is?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:44 | 3019618 Orly
Orly's picture

I have no idea who Warren Zevon is. Please tell...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:04 | 3019516 strannick
strannick's picture

Under a Catamaran?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:58 | 3019576 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Hah! It all makes sense now: he made enough to pay the rent because he lives on the beach. He is homeless and his "place" costs $0 to rent.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:00 | 3019509 Orly
Orly's picture

But mostly, you love you.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:20 | 3019539 prains
prains's picture



if you're shorting SNAPPL to make your rent you need a new line enquiry, not that shorting them is the wrong play but if you need to make rent on rolling the dice in a rigged market, gay porn is your only salvation. For movember I hear the "twinkie" is a great look.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:47 | 3019567 Orly
Orly's picture

Making his rent...on the 29th...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:47 | 3019482 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

What's three quarters of a billion between welfare-dependent investment bankers?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:48 | 3019484 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

Poweball winner!!!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | 3019489 zendome
zendome's picture

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:49 | 3019490 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Was that why the "gold price" in US dollars hiccoughed from @$1721 to @1718 briefly...?


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:59 | 3019505 Orly
Orly's picture

A 0.17% hiccup?


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:50 | 3019491 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Considering government paper worldwide is is headed to the shitter at an exponential rate the lesser educated may desire S&P exposure. I'll just take gold/silver. Whether this puts in the lesser educated class too...who knows ughhh!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:50 | 3019493 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

NONE of this stuff is "investing" - just BETTING...with borrowed money...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:51 | 3019494 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

lol like it isnt obvious that it is a central bank manipulating the market?  It truly is the "Anti-ZH" manipulation.  Long SP500 futures in huge quantities during the most illiquid hours (to burn the bearish shorts who dare to defy Bernankes directive to buy STAWKS at any price) and then the central planners shorting gold and silver futures, the other ZH trade.  Central Bankers truly hate ZH and by proxy, the truth.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:54 | 3019498 Jadr
Jadr's picture

Could someone with a bit more knowledge explain what a "forced buyback" is, and what circumstances would arise in which someone would be "forced" into a purchase like this?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:00 | 3019508 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Theoretically someone could be short and in a margin call and forced to "buy to cover" their short position.  But no one who has 10,000 contracts is getting margin called, lets be clear about how much capital someone needs to own 10,000 contracts. 10,000 x $3,850 per contract minimum equity = 38,500,000 minimum equity in their trading account.  Just fucking laughable that this is a margin call.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:06 | 3019518 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

One other point, they would have had to have lost $38,500,000 in the last day (every 24 hours the equity calculation at the margin department), so that their equity fell to such a level that they needed $38,5000,000 in NEW equity to cover existing additional short positions.  So who the fuck lost $38,500,000 today and was forced to cover in 1 minute 10,000 contracts?  Clearly, no one. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:10 | 3019523 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

A better explanation would be a cluster of stoplosses from hundreds or thousands of traders around 1410-1414.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:04 | 3019580 PeteJE
PeteJE's picture

Exactly.  DO NOT USE STOPS - EVER.  If you can't mitigate your positions as needed without them, then risk in a way you can (or don't trade).

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:16 | 3019591 Orly
Orly's picture

Got to ride the drawdowns...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:13 | 3019658 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 "Lay back & enjoy the mind rape!"


h/t Hypertiger.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:07 | 3019499 Orly
Orly's picture

"The early evening Abe chatter had come and passed without event so this is unrealted to that."

I'm not so sure...

That would explain the giant ramp in the Nikkei Index at the same time.  You know, I've been thinking...

It is very strange that the USDJPY cross would ramp so viciously three times whenever a prospective Prime Minister, Mr. Abe, would open his mouth.  I mean, he can talk a good game but everyone knows he has no power over the Bank of Japan.  As I mentioned last night, Mr. Abe has cried wolf at the trough too many times already but no one is going to buy it any more.

The weird part is that the only movement in a massive ES buy- three-quarters of a billion dollars, at once- would be to benefit the final hour of the Japanese markets.

So, to your other question: "Why not wait til Europe came in? Why not wait til the US came in? If you want buy $775mm notional exposure - wait for a pull back to VWAP? Or was it forced buybacks?"

Why indeed?  What does it mean to ramp the Japanese markets?  Follow-through to the European session?  The Euro didn't even flinch when that happened.  Funny thing is, neither did the USDJPY.  Abe's hard talk has been centered around ramping the Japanese stock markets.  Why?

Is this all getting very, very weird yet?


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:56 | 3019501 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you're up late (or early...or midday), playing in this truly absurd casino, with what every sane person knows is a floor full of fractional reserve rigged tables, may the farce be with you.

And an epic farce it will inevitably (again) turn out to be, since you're the one at that table who doesn't know who the sucker is.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:59 | 3019507 prains
prains's picture

casino y'all

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:01 | 3019510 zevon investmen...
zevon investments llc's picture

That is the exact reason I restricted my account from trading futures. I don't want 24 hr access to a casino. Better to treat it like it's not one.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 01:59 | 3019506 Stuart
Stuart's picture

This is going to end very badly.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:01 | 3019511 Orly
Orly's picture


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:02 | 3019512 Bear
Bear's picture

Wait, wait ... maybe it was a half now and half later trade

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:03 | 3019514 luna_man
luna_man's picture



Ain't it nice to know MY MAIN MAN got's our backs?...


get to sleep like an baby...Thanks, MY MAIN MAN

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:03 | 3019515 radicall
radicall's picture

Short S&P in gold terms seems like the pain trade

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:08 | 3019520 chart_gazer
chart_gazer's picture

if you follow futures closely, this was a totally expected move. there has been resistance at 1406-1408 since last friday. overnights and day sessions couldn't get through it.  when that occurs, the hot money always shows up in the night session when manipulation is easiest and pushes to new levels. this is one reason why ~70% of the gains for the s&p occur during the night session. 

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:13 | 3019529 Orly
Orly's picture

Three-quarters of a billion dollars?

All at once?

Do you have some proof of that statement?

And why zero reaction from currencies, which follow ES like hand-in-glove?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:21 | 3019540 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The "hot money."

LMAO. I honestly can't say I'm positive I know what you're intending to say, but if it's remotely close to what I think, I repeat LMAO.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:26 | 3019543 Orly
Orly's picture

If you're referring to me, I only say what I intend to say.  And I say it.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:42 | 3019560 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

No, I was referring to Chart Gazer, not you, as you didn't state "hot money."

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:35 | 3019556 chart_gazer
chart_gazer's picture

Yeah, hot off the press.  The PPT, Ny Fed, primary dealers with gov accounts, and whoever else has been commisioned with Bens new $'s to pump the markets.  This is chump change, and they have unlimited funds.  Why are people so surprised when this happens?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:09 | 3019521 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Governments all around the world buy stocks (indirectly) to prove that the economy is doing great. 90% of the politicians and media think it's great. It doesn't make sense but who cares as long as we vote them in and refuse to hire good people to run and work good companies.

And believing that the fiscall cliff is an issue is being delusional.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:09 | 3019522 radicall
radicall's picture

This definitely looks like the powerball winnings plunked into S&P futures

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:10 | 3019524 Orly
Orly's picture

Now the Euro looks like it is going to try to come off hard.  Maybe this was prophylaxis for the boom-lowering in the late European and US markets tomorrow?

Seriously bad GDP numbers proving the US is already in recession, perhaps?  Abysmal job numbers?  Watch out after the US open tomorrow and hold on to your hats.  Looks like we're in for a bumpy ride!


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:10 | 3019525 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:12 | 3019528 rlouis
rlouis's picture

night shift amateurs... calling in the 3rd string is so desperate at this level of Central Planning and Control.  They might just as well buy some software from India to run the markets. Really embarrassing; this is junk capitalism.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:16 | 3019532 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture


So that's what muppets getting devoured looks like

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:18 | 3019535 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


 !.05 barrier

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:27 | 3019545 Orly
Orly's picture

Do you mean E/U or A/U?  Or what?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:27 | 3019544 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Are you long Orly?  Tell the truth/

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:28 | 3019546 Orly
Orly's picture



Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:29 | 3019548 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:40 | 3019553 Orly
Orly's picture

Hmmm.  Okay...

But I am still waiting for the AUDCAD to trip the wire over the left shoulder on the way to par.  I have the level @ ~1.037x.  This pair is about to push lower in a quick hurry.


They're he-re!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:46 | 3019565 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Why on Gods Green Earth would you trade that pair? aud/cad!  WHY?  NZD?CAD aud?CAD/ WHY?

  What about  ( NOK?SYD)?  What about the spread in south korea/ us$ dollar?

   You are going native!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:54 | 3019573 Orly
Orly's picture

Because it is easy, it is cheap, it is readily available and shows such a pattern that my robots can run the trade for me, so I don't have to.

I couldn't even tell you the won/dollar spread but I'm sure it is more than ~4.2.

You're the one going native.  Korea is in your backyard and is easy for you to follow.  I'd prefer to follow the Western nation types, like Japan and Australia.


Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:15 | 3019589 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Robots/  And you consider your/self a trader?  That is unfortunate.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:20 | 3019595 Orly
Orly's picture

Maybe you should try it.  It's not a crime, you know, to go about your business and have a machine do the work for you.  It only costs a hundred bucks and it's returned much more than that.  It's not like you don't pay attention anyway, just let it go and see what happens.  It is all very precise, actually.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:08 | 3019646 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Transporter (     I study charts fore-ever    )   That aud/usd trade will break even!

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 04:13 | 3019659 Orly
Orly's picture

Yes.  That's my long bot.  How did you know that?

For short it's GBPbot, with certain settings...

AUDUSD is going lower from here.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:41 | 3019557 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


    ORLY /I love your ability to trade currencies.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:41 | 3019561 Orly
Orly's picture

Okay, man.  Don't be sad.  There's plenty of more hidden code so you can talk nonsense all you want to...

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:22 | 3019572 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Your right/ To each their own

   That aud/usd retrace back to 1.0285 PIVOT looks good.  ( ROBOTS)? LMAO/

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:47 | 3019566 devo
devo's picture

It would be funny if stocks opened red.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 03:07 | 3019581 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Funny how?

Like a clown? Would that amuse you given these Bernank'd markets?


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