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According To Google Trends, What Is More Popular Than "Ammo"? "Bulk Ammo"

Tyler Durden's picture


While "Fiscal Cliff" may be having its 15-minutes of fame - a la "Honey Boo Boo" or "Sneezing Panda" - there is one thing that has consistently been more and more searched in the last eight years. According to Google Trends, internet users are skipping just plain old simple "ammo" as a search query, and in a tried and true American tradition, confirm that size matters. The size of the ammo order that is, as can be confirmed by the following chart showing queries for "bulk ammo". What goes without saying, are the wavelike periodicities of the quantized jumps higher in popularity at select times over the past decade: they just happen to aggregate around a very specific event taking place each November every 4 years. At this rate by November 2016 we are going to need a bulkier chart...



(h/t @Not_Jim_Cramer)


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Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:01 | 3024439 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

I haven't bought anything as small as a box of 20 in over three years.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:07 | 3024453 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture


Every American needs to be aware of the threat levels on the homeland security advisory system [1]Exploding firearm sales indicates an increased risk of domestic terrorism, and Americans need to be on red alert for suspicious activity. We're going to do a quick recap of each official security level, and what it means for you and your family. I strongly advise everybody here to make a note of these security levels, and be aware of the implications.

Threat Levels [2]

  • Red (Severe) - Severe Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Orange (High) - High Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Yellow (Elevated) - Significant Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Blue (Guarded) - General Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Green (Low) - Low Risk of Terror Attacks


[1] Home Land Security System - 

[2] Threat Levels -

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:08 | 3024466 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Can you help us with the color codes for "troll threat levels"?...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:26 | 3024491 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If MDB is posting, then the government troll threat is very high.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:41 | 3024590 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

 The Fatherland- Socialist/Nazi German

 The Motherland - Communist Russia

      The Homeland? – An Unspeakable Fascist Bastard crossbreed of the two above!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:52 | 3024638 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

I wonder what the juxtaposition of search terms "fiscal cliff" vs "benghazi" is in the last month?


Remember BENGHAZI!!!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:06 | 3024692 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

"bulk ammo" + Benghazi gets 10,800 results

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 13:33 | 3026478 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Apparently the Terrorist Bankers feel threatened by our waking up to their demon worship and goat torturing parties

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:14 | 3024492 ACP
ACP's picture

When reading some posts, sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is actually a troll, or is trying hard to play the part of a troll as a joke.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:17 | 3024503 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

But the joke's ooooold.  And a tip-off being that artificial intelligence tends to get frozen in time.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024516 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Finally, a trend I can believe in.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:54 | 3024649 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Poe's Law renders both useless.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:44 | 3024606 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Why concern yourself with trivialities. All you need know is, "Duck and Cover."

Gummint said so.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:21 | 3025225 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

shit ....brown

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:11 | 3024483 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Gee ... I did not realise there were any levels below orange.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024517 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Below orange was before FDR.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:14 | 3024493 stant
stant's picture

look out for waco 2, they are just itchin to drone sombody. hellfire missles bitchez

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:27 | 3024543 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Wacos happen every single day when cops kill dogs, kill grandmothers, etc... violates basic constitutional rights and get no consequences.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:00 | 3024947 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

That really rustles my jimmies.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 12:15 | 3026391 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Cops have dogs and grandmothers too.  When things get bad enough there will be consequences.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:18 | 3024506 vintageyz
vintageyz's picture

MDB Awesome!  Do you do stand up too?  Where's your next appearance?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:23 | 3024531 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

But always a risk

even if green

  • Red (Severe) - Severe Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Orange (High) - High Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Yellow (Elevated) - Significant Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Blue (Guarded) - General Risk of Terror Attacks
  • Green (Low) - Low Risk of Terror Attacks

Is that what you are saying?

Ah yes, the neverending war on terror.



Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:30 | 3024556 CH1
CH1's picture

Ah yes, the neverending war on terror.

Well, yeah! The military industrial complex must be fed... and sheep never pay up unless they're scared.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:05 | 3024691 samsara
samsara's picture

The military industrial complex must be FED

There,  Fixed it for ya

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:00 | 3024668 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

But New York democrats ran on women's rights, diversity, subsidizing unions, and sensible gun laws.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:23 | 3025510 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

How did these New York democrats define sensible gun laws? In my experience Democrats define "sensible guns laws" to mean only the criminals, the politically connected, and the rich have guns.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:29 | 3024549 DosZap
DosZap's picture


The threat levels are not from the public, its the agencies......................and BTW, the House passed an Immigration Reform Bill yesterday,on the way to the Senate.

No that means the Mexican gvt gets its way, and big o also, No Border w/ Mehico..............I just wish Amelicans could have the same rights there, as they get here.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:43 | 3024581 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Red(severe)- She has been around the block a few times and the risk of disease is severe.

Orange(High)- There is a good chance if you get her high you can get a blow job.

Yellow (Elevated)- Blood pressure after taking the little blue pill.

Blue (Guarded)- Remain guarded when sneaking out in the morning after picking up a fat lady at closing time.

Green (low) - There is a low probability that MDB will be getting laid tonight. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:02 | 3024679 ericfoster3
ericfoster3's picture

You forgot another threat level:

  • Brown - bullshit
Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:00 | 3024945 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Financial terrorist attacks are ongoing by Goldman Sachs and the FED. No body gives a damn about terroism except when guys like Cheney and the Saudis get together. Let me know when the NWO are up to something otherwise buzz off MDB.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 11:56 | 3029714 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

it was aliens.

I mean it was Libertarians.

Fuck it - they're in cahoots!

libert-aliens - MeelionDollerBogus

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:25 | 3024525 SILVERGEDDON

The following Million Dollar Bonus Alert is FIRE ENGINE CODE RED, MOTHERFUCKERS ! 

Jesus. The Google IPO didn't kill this zombie bastard after all.

Resurrected as a Homeland Security web bot. 

Where's the large can of Raid when you need it ? 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:31 | 3024564 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Wish we could pull a chart from '94................would look almost identical.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:59 | 3024667 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

That was before the age of teh Googlez.

Gopher time!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:07 | 3025603 UGrev
UGrev's picture

They come in just single boxes of 20?  

LOOSE 30/50 CAL Cans FTW!!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:02 | 3024442 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Bulk Ammo bitchez!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:11 | 3024481 oddball
oddball's picture

Dillon 1050.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:56 | 3024653 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Spoken like an IPSC or IDPA shooter.  :)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:04 | 3024686 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture


Lee Classic Cast

Lee thigh master

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:47 | 3025119 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

the blue is true

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:00 | 3025152 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

I only get those Dillon catalogs for the articles.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:02 | 3024443 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

What comes after Bulk?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:05 | 3024451 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Michael MOAR!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:05 | 3024454 Zaydac
Zaydac's picture


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:08 | 3024456 Mercury
Mercury's picture

The price discovery moment when you realize that "bulk" (ammo) is going to set you back some serious coin.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:09 | 3024473 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

Yea but Copper Jacketed Lead is a precious metal.  So it retains its value.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:21 | 3024522 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Yes. It. Does.

Fortunately, ammo places still accept fiat and pixels.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:54 | 3024917 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

If you are on a budget, buy primers.  You can always get brass and bullets.  It usually isn't to difficult to get powder.  Primers, sometimes can be a problem to obtain.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:39 | 3025093 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

primers and a bullet mold. Become good friends with the local tire store so that he saves all the tire weights in 5 gallon buckets for you to later melt and cast into your caliber of choice. Become familar with your outdoor firing areas (BLM areas are popular) and go there in the early morning or dusk once per weekend and collect the brass many of the people leave behind because they were too lazy to police their brass. Learn how to handload and if you can afford it buy a dillon progressive reloader such as a 550. Buy powder monthly as part of your shopping trip. Make sure you buy a good battery operated digital scale to weigh your re-loads to make sure they are not to light or to heavy.  

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:24 | 3025234 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

. . . and don't forget that cast lead boolits don't play nicely with gas-operated firearms.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:08 | 3025354 carguym14
carguym14's picture

Better get those wheel weights soon-all the new cars have been coming through with steel/zinc weights for at least a year.

My supplier said the companies making lead wheel weights will be switching to steel/zinc weights as the War on Lead continues and more states start banning them.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:29 | 3025524 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

There is always the dollar-cost-averaging approach to buying ammo. Buy a few boxes every time you go to Walmart or your favorite ammo store, and before you know it you've got enough ammo to start a small war.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:15 | 3024498 Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

Freight Car

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:22 | 3024528 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

the government comes after bulk ammo.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 12:28 | 3026412 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If I really needed more than OMFG, then me and some buddies can always swing by the nearest branch of the Bank of DHS and make 10-ton withdrawals from the stash Janet has been conveniently building for the resourceful using taxpayer dollars.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:39 | 3024584 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Bulk reloading supplies.  :)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:46 | 3024616 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Government witch hunts.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:50 | 3024636 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Pallet loads.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:57 | 3024658 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

The whole nine yards.

Which takes about 3 seconds in your minigun, or about 25 in your M60.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:05 | 3024445 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Damn disgruntled Michigan militia terrorists are probably going to target the power grid with a gun.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:06 | 3024457 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Someone in Michigan could probably fart and it would knock my power out again.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:11 | 3024486 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's still that bad ? Better take it easy on the beer know how bad those beer farts are.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:03 | 3024447 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

For once some encouraging news eh?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:05 | 3024448 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Really?  Do the IP's trace back to government agencies like NOAA?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:06 | 3024455 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

Long lead, in bullet-shaped ingots.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:12 | 3024482 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Recently my brother came calling bearing gifts. 100 lbs of bulk lead along with plenty of pictures and instructions.

<Get the lead out bro.>

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:29 | 3024459 SILVERGEDDON

Easy answer. After bulk ammo, comes pallet load ammo. Pallet load. Great investment. No paper equivalents. Market stays real as per value. Stored properly, never goes bad. I am shooting 8mm from the early twenties, almost no FTF's.

Unlike silver, it takes more than five dollars to dig it up out of the ground. Kudos to Million Dollar Bonus for the Zero Hedge Comment Of The Year.  

Oh, yeah. P.S. After pallet load ammo, comes semi truck ammo, followerd by Ammo Train, and, ladst , but not least, Shipload of Combloc Country Surplus Ammo, my favorite. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:53 | 3024641 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's not really "surplus"--they're just pre-staging it ahead of the invasion.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:07 | 3024462 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

To the MSM and the brainwashed masses, a 50 round box is a "bulk" quantity.


Really, it's a total joke what the MSM counts as an "arsenal"; anything more than two weapons.  Here in PA, a 50 firearm collection is small.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:15 | 3024497 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

'Arsenal' is a fancy word for 'gun collection' in Texas.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:22 | 3024526 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Some prefer to call it "survival kit".

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:38 | 3024574 DosZap
DosZap's picture

'Arsenal' is a fancy word for 'gun collection' in Texas.

To the MSM, and the goobers, it's a pistol, a revolver, and a rifle,and two shotguns,and over a 100rds of ammo(spread over the lawn)....................your Waco stocked.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:50 | 3024896 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

When most Europeans hear the word "Arsenal" they think soccer.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:59 | 3025788 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Gunners.  Actually they are shite this year.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:23 | 3027985 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

'Gooners' to their rival teams fans:-)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:59 | 3024670 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Speaking of the brainwashed masses, I read an absolutely horrifying news story the other day.

The police raided a home and found guns and "hundreds of rounds of ammunition"!!!!!

Oh, the horror!  I hope they toss him in jail and throw away the key.

(They probably found a brick of 22 LR.)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:07 | 3024467 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The question is not if you have (lots of) ammo, but are you willing to use it when needed.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:24 | 3024535 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You mean for barter? ;-)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:03 | 3024656 XitSam
XitSam's picture

"At the end of the transaction, one person is going to own both the gun and the gold." -- Unknown

Bulk ammo is going up but still swamped by ammo.,%20bulk%20ammo

Edit: Strip LULA, very cool device.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:08 | 3024708 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

+5.56 on strip LULA

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:08 | 3025606 UGrev
UGrev's picture

love mine.. so easy, my 9 year old can help me reload :D

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:26 | 3024540 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

I'd say the question is who feels froggy and want to find out if I am or not?

Do it right, or roll 3d10 damage penalty.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:36 | 3025425 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Gary Gygax? Is that you?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:36 | 3024569 CH1
CH1's picture

The question is not if you have (lots of) ammo, but are you willing to use it when needed.

Or, "are you prepared to use it?"

Shooting a person is a damned ugly thing, and so contrary to nature as to be VERY difficult for nominally healthy individuals.

Tough talk is less than beneficial.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:40 | 3024587 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Shooting a person is a damned ugly thing, and so contrary to nature as to be VERY difficult for nominally healthy individuals.

Uh, not when it's YOU or them.

99% of normal folks would rather not, it's that 1% that screws everything up.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:44 | 3024598 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

It's a hell of a thing, killing a man.  I know because Clint says so

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:48 | 3024619 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Show up in my house at night uninvited and see how ugly it gets. Touch my wife, even uglier.

After years of hunting, you are just a slow moving two legged hog to me, buddy.

Your morals have zero place here. You are either a hunter, a friend or food in the new world.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:42 | 3025282 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Amen.  A lot of internet warriors talk big about stacking and calibers and penetration and knock down power while all they have ever shot is paper.  I've shot and killed more with a bb gun before age 10 than many of them ever will.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:53 | 3024629 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Fully agree about tough talk being less than beneficial. And I wasn't trying to do so if your comment was directed towards me.

But those who haven't even killed an animal, let alone a fellow human being, have no idea what they're getting into when they claim to own a gun for "self defense". Recently I had a discussion with someone who wanted to have a gun in order to "scare" away would be robbers and such. My response was simple.

If you are not ready and willing to actually use the gun don't even own one. If you are disarmed because you couldn't fire when you needed to, you will quickly be looking down the barrel of your very own weapon. And that person might not be so hesitant to fire. Worse, if you pull it out to try and scare someone away it might simply draw fire upon yourself. A lot of new gun owners are kidding themselves and they might just live to regret it.

Same thoughts apply to a knife by the way.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:00 | 3024673 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

+10 to CD.

Someone who isn't fully prepared to shoot when necessary should skip the gun and consider something like pepper spray, a bright light, or maybe a taser if it's legal in your area.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:08 | 3024706 Karlus
Karlus's picture

I once asked my new Russian wife what Americans are good at, expecting something like Space Exploration, Music, or something similar. Without even blinking she said War.

We actually are very good at war. We watch it on TV and in the theater, our children play COD and Battlefield3 and a large number of our populace is armed to the teeth. Something another country would never consider doing.

Our ability to wage war is increasing, not decreasing. Even now we are removing the soft targets from the battlefield and soon, much like the nuclear weapon and biologics, automated warfare will just be too terrible to face.

I believe this is a good thing and not a bad thing. If the US and the West want to enjoy their lifestyle and consume the resources, they must be prepared to defend that. If not, then run away.


"...people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Richard Grenier

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 11:15 | 3027970 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Those who are not prepared to kill live at the sufferance of those who are.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:14 | 3024682 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Absolutely.  I'd go so far as to say that everyone planning on having a gun should shoot a large game animal (and be forced to skin/gut/dress the animal) before thinking about shooting a human in self defense.  The damage done, blood trail, and disintegrated vital organs tend to give one a completely different perspective on the responsibility of gun ownership and the perils of firearms.  I'm guessing that buck fever is next to nothing compared to when you're in a real shooting situation against a fellow human, but at least it's better than nothing (armchairing/mallninjaing the shit out of the internet).

It's also a good time to bring up the necessity of proper drilling/practice for shooting situations...  practice, practice, practice...  and practice as close to as possible as a realistic shooting situation.  Tap/rack drills...  mag dumps...  magazine changes...  unholstering...  checking to ensure no background dangers or bystanders... 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:04 | 3024687 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Very true--killing is less about the tools, and more about the mental process.  You have to be a very deliberate person.  You have to be able to work through the initial adrenaline dump and not shut down.  People have to be trained how to react in violent situations, very few people naturally react with overwhelming violence when called upon to do so.  And before anyone complains that I'm talking out of my ass, I'm not saying I'm good at fighting at all--I've been in a couple of fights my whole life and they didn't go that well.  I do have significant firearms training, and I don't ever seriously use phrases such as "press the trigger" or "brain pan" so I have that going for me as well.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:16 | 3024697 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Let's put it this way.  Of the few (very few) good people I know who can be counted on and who I believe would fight to the death for their principles, not one of them would brag about it.  By way of analogy, how many fourth degree black belts do you see bragging about kicking ass? 

Talk is cheap.  Before you scream, "You can pry them from my cold, dead hands" watch "The Pianist" and see how the line in the sand keeps moving.

Very few people even know where their line is drawn much less walk the walk when someone steps over it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:27 | 3024783 CH1
CH1's picture

Fully agree about tough talk being less than beneficial. And I wasn't trying to do so if your comment was directed towards me.

No, not directed towards you at all, CD. I just wanted to inject some reality. It concerns me that all these guys talk like a galactic scale hardass and don't really know what is involved.

The guys who have done the worst stuff in war do NOT talk that way - they try to forget it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:40 | 3025278 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

In Gettyburg they found rifles with five cartridges in them. In WWII almost fifty percent of infantrymen never fired their weapons. The number of rifles never fired in combat has remained fairly constant for generations.

People cannot naturally kill each other. Armies have to be drilled over and over before some of hem can do it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:08 | 3024472 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

Gold, silver, lead, brass: the four precious metals that belong in every preparedness portfolio.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:12 | 3024490 PUD
PUD's picture

Stupid. How many gunfights does anyone think they will win?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024502 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Depends on how many you have been in I guess.  I see lots of veterans still out of work.  What?  You still believe there really are no trained professionals in this line of work?  Pretty dangerous thinking for a country that has been at "war" perpetually since the late 50's.


Full discloser;  I am long black markets and personal security companies.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:28 | 3024547 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Don't forget all those people that have paint ball training. It's a small step up from paint ball to lead ball.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:56 | 3024654 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Unless you step in front of that lead ball.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:42 | 3024596 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

I own an armed security agency in the Phoenix Arizona area but my phone hasn't been ringing off the hook yet for personal protection. Then again if things get that bad protecting other peoples asses(t)s is probably the last thing I or my guys will be thinking about. I and they will be to busy protecting my family and theirs.

That being said it is our monthly gun show this weekend at the fairgrounds and after last weekends practice session with my guys I need to go replenish 5,000 rounds. Got to test my new AK-47 draco pistol, all I can say was that was alot of fun shooting. Much different experience shooting that versus a standard AK. BTW-we save our brass for reloading and wait until it is a crappy weather weekend to reload on our dillon progressive reloader.

If the SHTF the wealthy are going to be in for a big surprise when they find out their money won't be buying them any protection.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:06 | 3024696 aerojet
aerojet's picture

How do you reload steel-cased ammo for that Draco?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:29 | 3024794 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

it will use brass just fine too.  The steel case stuff is less expensive. 
with .223 platforms, it's the anti-rust varnish on the straight walled case that causes fits, esp in AR platforms.

To reload steel case it's the same as brass, you won't get nearly as many reloads out of it before it stress fails and cracks as you would a brass case though.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:06 | 3024968 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

Me personally I have never even tried to re-load 7.62 steel casings as I get too nervous about the case possibly failing. Maybe if I was handloading versus progressive but not sure I want to even spend the money on a die set to see. My son is 14 and has been relaoding for about five years so once he gets the dillon set up he is pretty good running a couple hundred .223 per hour if his friend is with him. By himself about 100 HR but still not bad. We stockpile most of our reloads as I use the company expense to buy the factory ammo and save the brass for my personal ammo collection after re-loading. Win-win and uncle sam doesn't know how much he saves me by me keeping the company a little powder and primers from the company does somehow end up in my

My guys shoot quarterly and each guy shoots 300 rounds of duty and 500 rounds of AR. I have to recertify them with the state annually so me being a state certified firearms instructor that helps offest my expense not having to send them to somebody else for the recert. State requires 170 minimum score out of 250 for re-cert I require 220 from them or they can't work for me. They get one re-try.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:42 | 3024861 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Steel cased loads the same as brass or nickel plated.  Check out Youtube as there are a few videos talking about reloading in general, and reloading steel cased in particular.  Threre are discussion threads about reloading the aluminum cased ammo as well.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:48 | 3024883 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

You don't but we do re-load plenty of 5.56 for the Colt AR-15's we carry in our vehicles. We carry either the Glock22/23 or Colt 1911 as our duty weapon and my backup is a Ruger .38 LCR, my back-up to my back-up is a Barreta Tomcat .32 and if I need something after that I am relying on my feet. We have dies to reload all the major calibers from .223 to .45. Even my personal .30 M1 Carbine :) The Draco is an interesting handgun (barely qualified as a handgun) and I definately had some fun shooting it last weekend. To bad I can't legally put a foregrip on it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:56 | 3024928 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Well, you can always buy one for it now.  Once the balloons go up, I don't think there will be many people interested in discussing the fine points of 922-r.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:16 | 3024505 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

Prudence dictates that stockpiling gold and food is pointless if one has no way of keeping it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024518 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

that's what the Brit's thought also.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024519 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

I'm thinking I'll win at least one more than you.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:25 | 3024538 BrainDead
BrainDead's picture

Without a gun, absolutely zero.  With a gun, maybe one or two.  Best used as a deterrent.

You live near a Walmart by any chance?


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:54 | 3024647 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Wow. We are so fucked.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:29 | 3024550 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Stupid.  You just going to salve your chubby little ass when they start kicking in the door?

The answer to your feeble, mantyhose-wearing question is AS FUCKING MANY AS I HAVE TO.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:56 | 3025317 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Just surviving one with all my family and shit intact would be good enough.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:14 | 3024495 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

Though I don't do Ooogle searches for it.

After a while, one takes the hint that it's just there, and then searches their collected vendors for price and avialability.

I note that after a long period of down trending prices, that prices seem now trending higher.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:16 | 3024500 ATG
ATG's picture

And worth noting much of the ammo is on back order:

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:29 | 3024551 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yep...  ammo and bolt carrier groups...

The price on m855 has freaking skyrocketed, waiting on that shit to go down...  can still get 1000 rounds of decent new brass cased 55 gr for ~$300-325 delivered...  At least the AKs like to eat steel cased ammo...  and thank god for aguila...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:17 | 3024504 BrainDead
BrainDead's picture

Gold, Silver and Lead

The trivium of precious metals. Physically posses them all. Delivery methods may vary.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 12:45 | 3026428 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture


extra lead is useful, but in and of itself it's not precious

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:17 | 3024508 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

I love it when the UPS guy has to use a hand truck to haul all of the boxes with UN small munitions ordinance stamps all over them up to my door.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:49 | 3024628 seek
seek's picture

You know what's even better feeling than that?

When the UPS guy is so used to dropping off ammo that when he has you sign for a 50lb package the size of a couple shoeboxes, he says "more ammo for you today" when the return label is from Tulving.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 14:03 | 3026513 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The UPS guys are Teamsters and they love O.   I would not want UPS guys knowing all my business.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:19 | 3024513 wilijones
wilijones's picture

The ptb have disease weapons, microwave beams, drones etc... good luck with bullets-- There are plenty of teenagers blasting music you can use the ammo on though

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:00 | 3025591 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Yeah, Afghanistan has been a cake walk with all that stuff. That war lasted what, like two weeks?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 03:21 | 3026078 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

NBC ordnance has not been used in Afghanistan.

Remind me how long it took Japan to capitulate after attack with two VERY low-yield (by today's standards), very primitive nuclear weapons??

If TPTB really desire your demise, they will easily obtain their desired result. They DO "have the technology", you DONT.

Simple as that.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 13:11 | 3026449 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Power grid, gas grid, oil grid, rail grid... all these "grid" thingys- what happens if these grids cease transmitting effectively between point A and point B and what are the consequences, Fuku'd & FUBAR at Diablo Canyon?

Why all the concern about the peasant States' ability to secure their WMD stockpiles, and less concern for the established powers' ability to secure their larger,  more numerous and more distributed stockpiles- preventing Fattah Younis goes to Minot?  

The whole "war on terror" can be incompletely reduced to preventing the devolution of MAD from psychopathic State players to psychopaths without State authority.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:20 | 3024515 docmac324
docmac324's picture

It is one thing to have it, yet to execute, is another reality.  We are conditioned to watch violence, and to get our violence out through the tube I.E NCIS to the NFL.  To act out or defend with violence, is of course an "act of terrorism".


Now go reread your Patriot Act, and dad will let you stay up tonight.


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:25 | 3024537 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

”In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.“ -- George Orwell

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:21 | 3024520 PUD
PUD's picture

While a handgun or shotgun for personal defense makes sense, the whole notion of arming and defending a bunker is stupid. You will have to sleep. It will be found out that you have a horde and those with nothing will seek you out. You cannot base a plan upon bunker defense. 

Assuming the world would even be a place you would want to be alive in post apocalypse...after the nuke plants melt down etc....your best chance is to become highly mobile and highly invisible. Standing some ground and shooting every intruder is a fail. They searched "bulk ammo" too.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:27 | 3024544 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

And you need team.
There was this story from gang member, who survived war in Bosnia.

1. Every night, a new place to sleep. EVERY.
2. Carry food and guns, and sleep in places which are hard to reach. Like second floor with destroyed access to it.
3. Shoot first, check later for loot.
4. No prisoners, too much trouble. Anybody who surrenders is killed after battle is over.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:31 | 3024559 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

+ 7.62x39 sir.

Throw away your Mort D'Artur and read up on the eastern front in '44.   That's a good primer.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:32 | 3024566 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I wish you the best of luck with your survival strategy.  Mobile and invisible.

Good luck finding safe water on a consistent basis, or where you going to pack around a water purifier?

Good luck finding food on a consistent basis.  You might find meat occasionally, if youre willing to eat human, but what are you going to do for your other dietary needs?  Pack it around?

Good luck staying warm and dry in the winter, or where you going to pack around a tent and a sleeping bag?  Build a fire maybe? 

Good luck dealing with other mobile and invisible humans that you run into.  They might be armed.  Perhaps youll have to carry around a weapon and some bulk ammo?

So, yeah, good luck staying mobile and invisible with all that stuff youll need to survive stapped to your back.

As for me, after much thought, Im going to stay in my bunker.  The bad guys have to come to me which gives me the advantage.  I have food, they wont.  I will be warm and dry, they wont.  In fact, I think Ill probably end up seeing a LOT of people that had your idea for survival.  :)

Wish me luck dealing with people like you. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:38 | 3024575 PUD
PUD's picture

i never said it would be easy but you prop your eyes open with toothpicks ok and see how long your ramparts last

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:48 | 3024627 1000924014093
1000924014093's picture

Or you just sleep in shifts, duh.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 03:36 | 3026085 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

So, if your all stashed in your bunker, I seem to have quite the advantage don't I?

1. "Pool chlorine" + old battery acid via your air supply inlet

2. The "old faithful" against armoured immobile targets - the Molotov Cocktail, or for the adventurous - DIY flamethrower

3. The effective psychological weapon - liquefied faeces, and / or blood projected into your bunker.

All demonstrably effective means of assault. All mentioned in former SAS Manuals too, with a whole load more methods of "unconventional warfare"

Wish YOU luck, 'cause despite your guns'n'ammo, YOU are the one who will be needing it once the "more imaginative" assailants start to become the dominant predator group (which they obviously will, and quite quickly too).

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 13:26 | 3026466 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You apparently read too much internet, and not enough reality.  Not one of those tactics would successfully breech an actual bunker or properly constructed shelter. 

Of course you would have to live long enough to find Hard Harry Homeowner's Holdout Bunker, while fending off the other predator groups, and depleting finite supplies with rapidly diminishing resupply options.

There aren't any good options.  But without the foundation of a base of operations, you are dependent upon either the unlikely kindness of strangers or savagery.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:01 | 3024677 Karlus
Karlus's picture

You act like it would be your bunker against the entire govt. The whole point of the 2nd is that the people retain the means (and arms) to remove a unjust government.

Example, the first time that the govt goes to actually grab someone's guns in my neck of the woods (the Dirty South aka Texas) I know a bunch of angry guys will show up. Because they know that they will be next.

The government really needs to worry about is this nice highway system that leads right to DC. Yeah you can block it a bit, but it really seems like a nice thing the South coulda used back in 1860 :)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:05 | 3024689 Chump
Chump's picture

Dude, Waco?  The only folks who "showed up" were the ones slaughtering women and babies...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:21 | 3024762 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Do0d, seriously? The guy isolated himself and his clan - almost tailor-made as an example for the gov't to use.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:27 | 3024784 Chump
Chump's picture

Yup, and since they were a crazy cult no one cared when the .gov came by to...take their guns and kill the women and children.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:33 | 3024810 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

"Crazy cult" is part of the fostering of isolation. What defines a "crazy cult"? Hell, I define people who still watche TV as a crazy cult. Then there's the denizens of DC - now there's a nasty cult for ya.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:57 | 3024931 Chump
Chump's picture

I don't disagree.  What I disagree with is the idea that some sort of revolutionary action will be taken when the government starts with tyranny in earnest.  If confiscation of weapons were to be a "tipping point" as the commenter I was replying to seemed to imply, then it would have already happened after Waco or Katrina.  The only hope is that the government simply implodes, because we will be far too busy fighting each other to take up a united action any time soon.  My two cents, adjusted for inflation.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:07 | 3024952 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

everyone's a human, being - then along comes someone to re-define your reality so as to impose their reality.

and teh govs are like the angry, jealous god(s) - no reality before MINE.

edit:  we posted at the same time Chump (heyas), so I'll add, IMO the "confiscating of guns" most likely won't be a large scale effort, those who write the script are probably hoping the guns will be used laterally, thus outing the gun-holders, and then local LEO's and equivalent can just go shopping for new stuff at the Target'd location whenever they like. . .

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:10 | 3024978 Chump
Chump's picture

Back at ya.  You're right.  A large scale attempt would only serve as a rallying point for the rabble, and it would be unnecessary anyway.  As always, take care.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:22 | 3025017 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and you, & those small folks just learning how to name their environs. . . always remember, the things & places came first, and someOne named them after - words shape reality, if those descriptions don't work, re-name & re-frame - no fear!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:40 | 3024589 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

"As for me, after much thought, Im going to stay in my bunker.  The bad guys have to come to me which gives me the advantage.  I have food, they wont.  I will be warm and dry, they wont.  In fact, I think Ill probably end up seeing a LOT of people that had your idea for survival.  :)"


It was proven to be totally fail strategy, again in Bosnia.
You need to get rid of shit, you need to renew your supplies unless you have something like 5 year supply (extremely unlikely).
Besides your house can be burnt down with quite good chances of killing you in process.
Oh, and most bunkers rely on electricity. Good luck running that generator forever.
They will not come for you, they will wait outside targetting your door. Maybe even with homemade molotov or grenade, to clean room and loot it later.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 15:45 | 3024611 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Bosnia this aint. Read up on your history, no one kills like we do. You really think we'll just let the leeches crawl out of the cities with impunity? Let them steal the freshly baked apple pies cooling on the windowsills?

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