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German Bundestag Approves Third Greek Bailout Package
With a vote of 473 in favor, 100 against, and 11 abstentions in the German Bundestag, Europe's AAA-club gets the formal green light to pay off hedge fund holders of Greek bonds, and to preserve the solvency of Deutsche Bank, also incorrectly known elsewhere as "the third Greek bailout." As for Greece, we expect a 4th "bailout" within 3-6 months. In fact after today's spectacular collapse in Greek retail sales which plunged 12.1% in October, make that 2-5 months.
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For a country filled with brilliant people we sure do elect dense, corrupt, and abjectly worthless politicians.
Exactly, Germany like to have the most dull people to lead them. This is rather smart and causes less damage, because elected kindergarden leave citizens in peace.
Well Merkel is spending all their pension money. She just hasn't told them yet. I suppose that qualifies as leaving the citizens in peace -- for the moment.
Of course Merkel gave them more money.....they're almost like family now.
The German mind has a talent for making no mistakes but the very greatest.
-- Clifton Fadiman
LOL, sounds a bit like the "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they have tried everything else" -- Winston Churchill
Stated right before we had to save his cherry red little ass.....from the Germans no less.
"For a country filled with brilliant people we sure do elect dense, corrupt, and abjectly worthless politicians. "
I challenge you to find a country that does not elect dense, corrupt, and abjectly worthless politicians...
A way around that is a country without any politicians and elections, a feudal system (Kings, Queens, Knights and the rest) would work fine as an example.
Regardless, the drawback of people being in leadership (power corrupts...) will remain with a different set of 'dense, corrupt, and abjectly worthless' people.
-edited my hasty post-
"dense" is debatable, "corrupt" is measurable and there are lots of countries where corruption is very low - it's a function of political will and culture, btw. a bit like leaving your dishes so long unwashed until you have coakroaches in the kitchen
meanwhile "abjectly worthless politicians" is often just a translation for "I hate them because they don't agree with me"
often without asking why they don't agree - and often the sign of a political stance that borders between anarchism and proto-fascism
this majority in the freely elected German Bundestag is quite clear, isn't it? at a certain point I ask myself how many commenters have just a serious problem with representative democracy per se, as a function of consumerism expectations to be pampered as a customer in political matters, too (the problem of "nobody asked me!")
note carefully the wording
"...to pay off hedge fund holders of Greek bonds, and to preserve the solvency of Deutsche Bank..."
DB has a derivative book of 59 trillion euros (as of Dec 2011).
This is the main issue, discussions of "democracy" are irrelevant. Democracy is irrelevant if your bank account disappears.
I indeed noted the careful wording of Tyler, yes. thanks
that "thing" called Deutsche Bank is a transnational monstrosity like all MegaBanks, full of AngloAmerican banksters with the culture of pirates with a gambling addiction.
If I'd be in charge of Germany's national interests I'd throw it out or break it up in very small pieces (as a matter of anti-trust it would be feasible)
that "thing" swears that they have nearly no exposure to Greece anymore - officially. sadly I have only the Tyler's word for the opposite, and they are most of the time only hints
that derivative book should go in the dustbin, together with all derivatives that were banned (eh, experience) and then re-allowed
btw, you know who wrote a substantial share of Greek CDSs? Greek banks.
nevertheless: no. I disagree, and many europeans, particularly a majority of Germans, are with me
democracy and peace - two words that Dubya tainted - are more important than all the bank accounts of this world. with them, you can rebuild. without them you can't. the "lesson" of WW2, if you want
only who experienced the total lack of those two can probably understand, and there are still enough europeans that do (and we are rejoined with some fresh ones from behind the Iron Courtain that have some experience in this lacks)
of course this makes us exploitable, I agree, but the AngloAmerican Banksters Cartel is at an impasse for now, and it's busy destroying itself
the question is how all this printed money will affect us, soon. the main question is about King Dollar's status, as since 1968
we'll see
I agree with your expanded view. It's a pity that Herr Screwbli (who knows all this as well as we do) appears to consider the electorate too immature to be presented with the facts.
I just listened yesterday to an interview with Schäuble were he did indeed try to explain some facts and some opinions including the need to keep gov expenses in tight check, even in Germany. And you know what Juncker said and how well this washed down.
My point is that a lot of this is scenario-dependent. IF the dollar or the pound or both enter soon their death-throes, for example, than a lot of things you might want to do now might look foolish, post-fact.
So explaining in detail is indeed political suicide - most people simply don't think in scenarios.
the "game" is played in NY and London, everybody else is reacting (including China and their hoard of USTs).
I repeat myself: the EUR is a preventative, defensive structure designed to weather a storm over King Dollar. One of the key ingredients for it's success in this envisioned role is size. The others are industrial policies and the Fiscal Compact. And it is as such expendable, for a political price.
we'll see what happens
This "freely elected" Bundestag is directly defying the people they have been elected to represent. Over half of Germans want the dMark back, 2/3rds wanted no more bailouts for Europe after the first Greek bailout. Yet these things keep passing. How about we put something like this up for a referendum. ?
you start your sentence with a hyphenated "freely elected"
is it freely elected or not in your opinion? there is not much leeway in this, I'd say
"over half of Germans want the DEM back" - do they vote for parties that want the DEM back? there are some, btw, though most parties acknoledge the fact that Germany as a polity made a deal with France and Italy and gave the DEM for political/diplomatical support for the German ReUnification. do you eat your word for breakfast?
"two thirds wanted no more bailouts" - yup, this might be or not be correct, but it's not a referendum, it's an act of parliament made by 400 persons you denigrated in the thread before
instead of asking here in this English-speaking blog for a referendum, why don't you get out and inform you how to organize a "Volksbegehren", instead? Or get politically active for a party in the next German general elections in 2013? Just hinting
politics is a market, too - you have to offer something in order to get something
this is something many don't understand, they think there is a free lunch (in politics). well, sorry, there isn't
Apparently the only country in recent memory whose politicians actually serve the people, is Iceland.
Iceland?
Markets not moving frontrun the whole thing and BANKIA is down 23%
Yes, 5 2 7 months, before the elections or they will cook the books.
very great , so $EURUSD will hit daily trend line res http://stks.co/jFgx
Finally Greece is safe ^^
Smokem if ya gottem.
greeks bend over, more debt for you while they cut your income and drop kick your standard of living,, time for burning some cars and smashing windows, while letting your pols eat caviar and drink crystal.
And one might have hoped some time ago Germany was approaching a rational solution...
Germany is an integral part of the scam much like any other country. The fact that it's still better-off seems to be a pure coincidence, a historical legacy. Sadly, there is no any prevailing reasonable out-of-crisis driver left in Europe. Germany will little by little join the rest of debasing European economies and dilute all its wealth. Great disappointment... welcome to the largest psychiatric hospital aka 'the modern world society'.
In america we freed the insane from hospital with the advent of modern psychotropics..unfortunately we elected them.
welcome to the largest psychiatric hospital aka 'the modern world society'.
___________________________
This is an 'american' world.
Speak for yourself, with a little tweeking, the dutch could control the whole world with reason itself. Since we in the USA have no reasonable peoples to debates, we wage word wars, in the name of money and national reason. They have no leg to stand on, nor teeth to defend themselves with, so it's cheese, chocolate, and wine to finish what our elders started or bust.
Well I for one, say bust it.
"But...but...you're thinking of this all wrong, like we have the money back in a safe. The money's not here, why your money's in Merkel’s house, that's right next to yours, and the Draghi house, and the Monti house, and a hundred others.”
The faucet is open and will not stop period. Western World swimming in pools of debt and no way out. Great Plan folks.
Oh wow.....REALLY?!
Yeah.....again.
The German people's masochism meets the German bankers' greed- "Thank you Sir, May I have another?"
It's almost like everyone is somehow related to Kevin Bacon. It's almost spooky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ
the great oligarchy family are now closing ranks to kick the can.
Even Abu Dhabi is now joining the Euro aid program by buying Portuguese debt.
Not sure why they keep calling these Greek bailouts when it is really just a euro bank bailout who were stupid enough to lend to Greeks. It's not as if Greece itself or the Greek people are getting bailed out. Ridiculous.
I would seriously doubt that Germany is not merely playing the role of 'foil' to the this great Banker endgame. German financial interests in London are far too important to allow Soverigns to collapse., besides which the Euro/dollar is holding up unsurprisingly well - euro devaluation means there's plenty of room to make German industry more competitive. Greece HAS failed, Government Spending is the crucifix around all our necks,..like Dictators with credit-cards, it's happened in greece and now it will happen everywhere else - new credit chasing old debt - the bankers are just going to continue the slaughter of the middle-class: that will be how history records the UK, US and their legacy of (and committment to,) Western Democracy.
Germany could never 'unify' Europe, Europe doesn't work that way, the financial rescue agenda is based on an impossibility - everyone knows it. Bankers, for the good of society, don't need to give a damn what people think, or how many go hungry, or who're homeless...The globe has made what kind of progess over the last two decades, more farmers in Debt, stagnant real incomes, higher costs to education, - the Saving grace has been the Internet....so what again, is so vitally important about the Banks?
What do you want to bet that Greeks are voting with their feet? Everyone there with anything to lose and the means to walk away must either be doing it or planning to, so watch out as the debt per capita explodes.
I can´t believe these decisions....there has to be something under the table that we are not privy to on the outside to make these votes......they just seem wrong....way wrong
its all in the semantics
as Tyler points out they are not so much bailouts of Greece as they are bailouts of otherwise insolvent European banks
makes perfect sense when you get past the bullshit
expect lots more of the same - should get interesting if the commoners figure it out
which is really better the incompetent hillbillys and white trash that constitute the us government or the sophisticated con-men thar staff the eu government
hillbillys have the edge at the moment
Anyone remember earlier in the year when many thought Germany would draw the line and refuse to sacrifice her economy to the madness that was engulfing the Eurozone bank cartel?
God forbid we get just one politician who says "fuck this shit" and actually throws off the yoke of his oligarch masters...
And.............. the Germans just surrendered to the Greeks!
A 3rd bailout for Greece was an easy call to make over the summer:
http://dareconomics.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/germany-tests-the-waters-fo...
Unfortunately for Merkel, a fourth bailout will be necessary well before German elections.
Why has there been no commentary on the coming renewal of the FEDS CONTRACT WHICH ENDS IN 2013,NEXT YEAR?
Is this a non-event? Priced in? Foregone conclusion? Congress gonna hold their noses and pass it at midnight on a Friday night after putting Rohypnol in the media scrums punchbowl?
Links anyone?