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Guest Post: Let's Have A Depression Now

Tyler Durden's picture


Originally posted at Monty Pelerin's World,

The United States is more than four years into its form of economic purgatory. The government pronounced the recession over in June of 2009. That announcement does not conform with reality or even subsequent government suspect data. Even the Administration-friendly New York Times knows better:

Between June 2009, when the recession officially ended, and June 2011, inflation-adjusted median household income fell 6.7 percent, to $49,909, according to a study by two former Census Bureau officials. During the recession — from December 2007 to June 2009 — household income fell 3.2 percent.

To believe the recession ended requires a bizarro interpretation of economics where bad is actually good and good is actually bad.

21st Century politics sees no need for truth. When government believes itself to be responsible for the economy and convinces the people of that, it has put itself into a box. In a world where government claims credit for good things, bad things ultimately become their responsibility as well. Recessions are bad things which government should not have allowed to happen or should fix quickly.

The reality is that government does not create wealth or economic abundance. (They can create poverty, however.) When recessions occur, they threaten the myth of all powerful government. The first reaction of government is to do something regardless of whether something makes sense or not. The second phase is to declare the problem solved (in this case, claim the recession ended).

This kind of politics is dangerous on two counts. First, government risks what little credibility it has left (which I might say is not necessarily a bad thing). Second, it causes government to pursue policies which reinforce its lies. It is these policies which created the current economic crisis in the first place.

The country’s economic problems began decades ago. In trying to cover them up with economic interventions (stimuli), government actions prevented the economy from correcting the imbalances that caused slow growth. From a political standpoint, economic policies encouraged institutions and people to use debt to live beyond their means. The massive debt buildup in both the economy and the government hid the underlying problems and allowed them to grow ever larger and more malignant out of sight.

After decades of such interventions, the economy no longer is able to function efficiently. In order to remedy the problems, massive liquidations of debt and misallocated assets are necessary. There is no other way to achieve an economic cleansing. It may be possible to continue this economic charade with additional interventions, but there is a limit to how far it can be continued. Japan has achieved zombie existence for over two decades by refusing to face up to the imbalances in their economy. Our government has chosen the same course of “extend and pretend.” There is no hope for a recovery until something like another Great Depression liquidates the built-up imbalances.

No politician wants to be in office when that event occurs. Thus, they make matters worse for the country by continuing to spend money we don’t have to prop up an economy that cannot and should not be saved. Their goal is not to repair the economy but to ensure the most favorable terms for their own re-election. As a result they continue to savage the future of the country in order to protect their own present.

People will eventually regain control of their government. They always do. Unfortunately the process of history is slow and sometimes ugly. Multiple generations around the world have never known freedom. China and the Soviet Union are two examples that are just now transitioning toward freedom. Are we to enter some institutional dark ages where our grandchildren and their grandchildren do not experience freedom? It is possible because all governments prefer more power for themselves and less liberty for their citizens.

The required change is so great as to be analogous to an addict trying to break his habit. Most addicts have to hit rock-bottom before reality intrudes. In the case of the US, we are going to hit rock-bottom when the economy collapses. That is likely to be within the next ten years and could be at the front end of that estimate. This world-changing event may (at least temporarily) drive a stake through the heart of big, oppressive welfare-state governments.

There is no guarantee that government will shrink when this happens. Civil unrest is a likely outcome. Statists may attempt to use the crisis to further expand government. Martial law and other restraints are likely. Hitler used a similar situation to rise to power. Parts of the Constitution were emasculated under New Deal policies that “had to be done” to pull us out of the Depression. Of course, we never got out of the Depression until after the end of WWII.

Economic pain and suffering will be great. Yet the economic calamity is unavoidable. It was pre-ordained by years of government interventions. Mathematical and economic laws will not be avoided. As stated by Ludwig von Mises:

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

We are coming off the biggest boom in the history of the world. If Mises was correct, and I believe he was, then Keynes was wrong (and I believe he was). Thus far all the Keynesian dollars expended have had little effect other than to make this country poorer. We are set up to have a Depression greater than the one in the 1930s.

A Depression is not a good thing. Yet in this case, it may be the one event that can prevent a chapter in future history books entitled “The Demise of the Great American Empire.” Unless citizens and politicians return to their senses, we will be both impoverished and living under tyranny.

A reaction opposite that of the 1930s is a hopeful outcome. Despite the recent election, government is increasingly seen to be the problem. It is no longer viewed reliable, trustworthy or as a solution. Freedom is deeply ingrained in the American culture and most of us recognize how much we have already lost. The resurgence of books such as “The Road to Serfdom,” “Atlas Shrugged” and others similar indicate the public is interested. Historically low poll numbers for all politicians and the rise of the Tea Party movement are further indicators. The economic trauma may provide the catalyst to return to the founders’ concept of government.

Totalitarianism needs the military. More than any other segment of society, the military respects and supports the Constitution. If push comes to shove, they are likely to defend the Constitution rather than the government.

Government has reduced itself to little more than an insolvent zombie, staggering around awaiting the coup de grace that will end its misery. The coming economic collapse is that executioner. When collapse happens, efforts to increase government are will occur. They must be resisted strongly. The love of freedom and the experience with big government should overcome decades-long madness. No matter how things evolve, in the history books of the far future, there can be no better title to describe our current situation than “The Myth of Government.”

If we must have a Depression, let it begin today. It will be hard and dangerous, but it may be the last chance to get our country back. When it happens, we must all think and behave like Founding Fathers. To paraphrase Rahm Emanuel, this crisis will be too important to waste.

The “greatest generation” handed us a gift and we fumbled it away by allowing government to run wild. We cannot turn this mess over to future generations. We must take our country back and remedy the problems.


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Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:49 | 3025300 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

I'm in.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:52 | 3025308 Thecomingcollapse
Thecomingcollapse's picture

Me too!! Let's get on with this thing all ready!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:17 | 3025377 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Then just cut your consumption in half..   That will vaporize TBTF..

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:29 | 3025404 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Totalitarianism needs the military. More than any other segment of society, the military respects and supports the Constitution. If push comes to shove, they are likely to defend the Constitution rather than the government.


Hitler had the Gestapo.  Big O is amassing his own private Gestapo and furnishing them with billions of rounds of ammunition that various agencies supposedly purchased for themselves but couldn't possibly need.  This is something we need to watch.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:45 | 3025442 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The individuals in the military may respect and support the Constitution. Individuals in the military may even have taken an oath to defend the Constitution. At the end of the day, however, the military serves the Commander-in-Chief.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:35 | 3025529 saturn
saturn's picture

Hey Indians, it is time to kick the once-european bison murderers and gold diggers descendants' assssss! Take america back! Yay!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:52 | 3025563 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

We already are in a depression.

History will mock the morons who thought otherwise.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:34 | 3025850 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Agreed, back out the government debt - which is an out and out fraud as it will never be paid back and was never intended to be paid back when it was borrowed - and the economy is more than 10% off peak and getting worse, not better.


For lulz check out the DNS registration date for

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 02:02 | 3025989 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Focus on this, if you do now or in the future find yourself believe it to be true (or more "truer" than not, at least):


No government agency or business association spokesperson is ever going to speak of the truth of how bad things are in the present, unless they have no choice because incontrovertible proof has already been released to the masses that would otherwise and obviously demonstrate their insincerity.

As long as "official datum" as published by the various governmental and quasi-governmental agencies/bodies allow governmental and business association spokespeople to understate the severity of our real economic crisis, they will, whether Democrats, Republicans or the chief economist for The National Association of Realtors.

No governmental employee (and especially no politician) will voluntarily relay how dire things may be (again, given a backdrop of "official" statistical datum that is inaccurate and relatively misleading they can fall back on) because they wouldn't want to upset the apple cart, cause further distress or even panic amongst the populace or within the "markets," and no business association spokesperson, whose very jobs entail, at least in significant part, a public confidence building role, will do anything to further dampen the confidence that their industry hope remains amongst potential consumers of their products (e.g. would a spokesperson for the NAR really come out and say that existing homes are selling quickly because inventory is being artificially constrained by GSEs and federal reserve policy and also due to federal reserve monetary policy that has a huge % of listed homes being purchase by investors for cash in an attempt to produce yields in a yield-starved economy - BECAUSE of federal reserve monetary policy? What impact would that have on the confidence of conventional, prospective existing home purchasers, who might then realize there is no true present price discovery and that another leg down is more than possible?).

In other words, they lie because our economy is dependent, in quite a large degree, on an illusion that is often referred to as the "confidence fairy."

If those people who still have the means to purchase a particular service or good feel confident about the security of their own jobs and the current & likely future state of the economy, they're more apt to go ahead and dig themselves into more debt or pay cash to purchase that service or good, regardless of the accuracy (and realism) of their "confidence level."

Conversely, if they don't feel confident about the security of their own employment situation and/or the current and likely future state of the economy, they're more apt to refrain from purchasing that good or service, and save instead, in preparation for what may lay ahead.

And this is why, without exception, throughout history, the masses do not understand there is a crisis until well after it has already begun, and they've already committed to many purchases, indebtedness and other forms of dis-saving, that they wouldn't have committed to had they known accurate information sooner.

Hence, the "confidence fairy," which governmental employees, politicians and business spokespeople all actively perpetuate in their own methods and by various tactices, is a serial and mass killer of efficient markets and rational economic behavior (as it severely distorts essential economic information that is relied upon by economic and market participants).

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 09:52 | 3026215 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

But, but, buy...productivity could surge again, like it always did before, making the confidence justified, as it always has been in the past, so there.   All will be noit just well, it will be great, like the Jetsuns, with a Costco on every corner, every woman beautiful with three big boobs not just two, perfect health eating miracle ice cream all day, and so on.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:43 | 3027456 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Very well stated.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 15:10 | 3030362 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Rule of propanganda: The more people being employed to tell you something, the greater the likelihood that something is false.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 14:41 | 3026555 derekiz
derekiz's picture

The friggin' Greatest Generation. My Ass! When do you think the great socialist experiment started.

It was during FDRs administration and then follow that up with the Great Society Social programs of LBJ. Baby Booomers as entitled and self absorbed as you think they are weren't born or were just beginning to vote when these disasters we perpetrated by the "Greatest Generation". The gifts they are leaving us are the gigantic medicare bills they run up for any little thing that bothers them in their remaining years.  I have three sets of "Greatest Generation parents still alive and their ability to look the other way and pull money out of the generational till is unbelievable. Then add social Security and the smallish amounts they invested in comparison to the vast amount they took out. The Greatest Generation is a fairytale. They are leaving everyone else after them holding the bag. Some gift! Some Generation!

P.S. Talk to them about it and watch them rationalize, prevaricate, ignore, and attack.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 15:13 | 3026590 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Wilson came before FDR, and was a huge fan of The State .  He was an academic and wrote a book praising the state and excoriating the constitution.   Standard issue central planner philosopher king that one, peddling utopia.   He experimented with some pretty fascist stuff domestically, and world government too (League of Nations, 14 points etc).

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:52 | 3025872 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

history will be written by the winners.

we are out of the recession.  this is the new normal until the next leg down.

a failed economy cannot exist without a police state.

those who joined the army are not aware of reality, and so will gladly protect their president from the domestic terror.

an act of congress to instill sound money requires years of infiltration by persons of integrity.  we do not have the luxury of time and any political dissent will be addressed through increasing authoritarian measures.

how much longer do we have?  i don't have that answer, but the can will be kicked so long as the current benefactors believe they can squeeze the populus further.


Sat, 12/01/2012 - 09:47 | 3026212 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

There is no integrity in banking. Never was, never will be.

As soon as that actually sinks in, one can realize that fiat is simply fraud by another name.  So is leverage (all of it).


Sat, 12/01/2012 - 09:53 | 3026217 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

You mean banking with fractional reserve lending.   Fixed it for you.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:31 | 3025643 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

There is a thing in the military which is called an "improper order". You are never required to obey one. Essentially, it is meant to prevent anyone in the military from participating in massacre's and the like.

It is unlikely the military would fire on civilians, particularly the Federal/National military. I doubt National Guard would either as they come from and work in their own communities.

The only way it could be done on a wholesale level is to "fool" the military or do it by degrees. I do think there are bad apples and political loyalists in the military but not enough to have a wholesale suppression of the public.

I would guess it is easier to get government police forces, local and federal to do the bulk of the oppression. The challenge would be to keep the U.S. Military on the sidelines and out of the picture.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:48 | 3025868 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

I agree. The US military guys would be shocked if they were ordered to fire on US soil, at US citizens. Most would refuse.

The cops...most would relish it.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:59 | 3026011 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Love those who serve, but sorry.

Plenty under orders would be rocking away on a .50 cal into the "insurrectionists" yelling "GET SOME!".

Don't doubt it.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 02:10 | 3026023 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Nothing happened at Kent State.  Move along.  Nothing to see.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 16:21 | 3026690 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Don't make Kent State something it was not. It was a confused and unfortunate situation. It was not a wholesale gunning down of the public or a roundup of the civilian population for deporation to work camps or reeducation camps.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 07:42 | 3026162 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Kent St
Waco, TX

Besides, the Sargents and Captains in the Police are the domestic standing army. Don't get between them and their pensions.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 09:55 | 3026223 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Don't forget the public school teachers' unions.   There are a lot more of those.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 11:42 | 3026345 EINSILVERGUY

Kent St was not clear cut. the National Guardsmen firing on the protesters was a confused situation and will always be in dispute The guard should never have been asked to do police action at the university. Personally I never had a lot of sympathy for the "protesters" at Kent St.

Waco on the other hand was a clear cut case of Police state suppression, murder and coverup.  Watch "Rules of Engagement". 

I was living in Austin at the time and that event is what changed my view of the government. Janet Reno is a criminal as are the ATF and FBI officers in charge of the operation.

In my lifetime that was when I decided that the government was becoming Fascist.  911 gave them the excuse to carry it forward.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 13:28 | 3028155 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Well, that is the point.  It is always confusing. Always an excuse.

National guard, locals, fired on protesters.  It is wishful thinking to suppose US soldiers will not fire on civilians.  There is always smoke, noise, confusion.  Plan accordingly.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:24 | 3025736 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

My fear is the local police force that worships the union rank and politicians that sign their paychecks.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:36 | 3025857 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

JSOC already mutated to SS. No such a thing like "constitution". JSOCs + Blackwater/DynaCorp/TrippleCanopy & offsprings have more men then US armed forces who r sworn to a former "constitution", wich died AFAIK on December, 31th 2011. Burried by Barry bin GoldmanSux . Amen !

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:55 | 3025565 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

Hitler had the Gestapo.  Big O is amassing his own private Gestapo and furnishing them with billions of rounds of ammunition that various agencies supposedly purchased for themselves but couldn't possibly need.  This is something we need to watch.  


This is true BUT, Germany did not have 117 million (11/6/2012) of gun owners who, no matter what stroke of any pen, are not going to give up their guns no matter the purported penalties. That number has gone hockey stick since then.

Black Friday was a record day for gun background checks. Something in the 160,000 range. Anyone who gets as far as a BG Check is not a looker but a buyer. When someone drops several Benjamins for guns and ammo, they are not going to freely relinquish them, laws be damned. The very reason for the increased purchases are because peeps are afraid those very laws will be implemented.

The only thing the form 4473 reveals to uncle sugar is who the buyer is and how many of either rifle, shotguns or pistols wanted to be purchased at a particular FFL dealer. Sure, they know you applied but nothing else. Now, there being about 130,000 FFL dealers who hold the actual paperwork on a purchase, the numbers are too overwhelming for the Feds to check each owners papers for the last 7 years.

As for Barky O's Gestapo, there ain't enough of them. When folks start getting shot up for owning guns, folks is gonna start shooting back. No matter the propaganda press, word will get out. Military is only about 2 million, another 3-4 million LEO's ain't no match for 150+ Million gun owners who see their local LEO forces decimated daily. They know they need the guns for protection against the criminal types and they'll keep em. Lots of LEO's will say "screw this, I ain't dying because some idjit says his version of the Constitution is the right version and want me to confiscate guns from otherwise law abiding citizens." There will be the odd man out with a small dick and big ego that may try but, those numbers will rapidly decline, imho. It ain't going to get any better either for the .gov types. I don't think Barky's Gestapo will mean much.

As for me, I know longer own any guns myself. Bought one with a 4473 last year but the thought of that vile, evil piece of plastic and steel in my house made me ill at times. I sold it to some fellow over yonder, around the mountain. lol

By  the way, for ya'll down Houston, TX way, There's a new store open and having a Grand opening on Dec 8 in yer neck of the woods. with door prizes, drawings and such. I'm told their reloads are most excellent but never having shot one, as I sold my gun a few months after getting her, are quite reliable and occasionally priced most excellently. Freedom Munitions.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:57 | 3025582 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture

I wish what you predict were true, but I see it as unlikely. Most military and LEOs will obey the ones who cut their checks. All the government must do is threaten them with being fired or courtmartialed and they'll fall right in line.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 11:50 | 3026360 EINSILVERGUY

There is some truth to this but we have a great deal of honorable men serving in the military.  The political class might follow the CIC but I believe that many of the officer corp (especially those from the South )  would not turn arms against their brothers and sisters.  More likely you would have many in the military refusing to follow orders. I can' believe that men from the Citadel, VTech Texas A&M (more military commissions outside of the service academies) would turn their weapons on their family and friends. Maybe Im naive but there is still a great deal of southern honor in our men and women who stand the wall.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:07 | 3025602 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Why do you expect TPTB to even consider getting involved with a localised, but heavily-armed population? All they need to do is "arrange" a "catastrophic" chemical tanker "accident" - road or rail - and ther problem will be conveniently solved without a shot being fired.

The advantage of this strategy is that the dumbed-down will be fully on-board when the "Safety Review" (costing a few hunhdred million $$s) implements further restrictions on what you can and cannot do, which will (surprise, surprise) include posession of "hazardous materials" in the home - things like fuel supplies, ammunition, LPG, - all the things you will NEED in order to have any degree of preparedness. If you are regarded by the masses as a "dangerous hoarder of flammable / explosive materials", which will of course be illegal post-catastrophe, the strategy will be social isolation and reliance on "informers".

Worked just fine in Russia and in Germany. Don't suppose for an instant that it'll NOT work just as well in the USSA, especially if the informers are "adequately compensated".


Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:08 | 3025802 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

Why do you expect TPTB to even consider getting involved with a localised, but heavily-armed population? All they need to do is "arrange" a "catastrophic" chemical tanker "accident" - road or rail - and ther problem will be conveniently solved without a shot being fired.

The advantage of this strategy is that the dumbed-down will be fully on-board when the "Safety Review" (costing a few hunhdred million $$s) implements further restrictions on what you can and cannot do, which will (surprise, surprise) include posession of "hazardous materials" in the home - things like fuel supplies, ammunition, LPG, - all the things you will NEED in order to have any degree of preparedness. If you are regarded by the masses as a "dangerous hoarder of flammable / explosive materials", which will of course be illegal post-catastrophe, the strategy will be social isolation and reliance on "informers".

Worked just fine in Russia and in Germany. Don't suppose for an instant that it'll NOT work just as well in the USSA, especially if the informers are "adequately compensated".

Geography buddy, the only way to stifle gun ownership is to kill everyone in the fuckin place. They could go there but doubtful.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:44 | 3025670 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I think the better way to look at Hitler and similar situations is to realize that large parts of the population supported Hitler, especially the sociopathic elitist "intellectuals". He was man of the year for Time magazine. Hitler started with just the Jews and worked outward from there. Oppressing the Jews was pitched as good for Germans and Germany. This is the proper way to do it. Take power to oppress a smaller unpopular group. Once the legal basis for authoritarianism is set you can then apply those rules to anyone else who gets in your way. Then the establishment, especially police forces end up working for the dictator...legally. A population trained in civil obedience and order will follow along rather willingly. They will go along with their own imprisonment.

What is sad and should not be doubted in any country is how many of your fellow countrymen are willing to oppress their fellow man. Some will do it enthusiastically and others will cop out with "I was just doing my job. What could I do? I had to think about myself and my family." In some ways I hate these milktoast bastards more than anyone else.

In the West, we have pluralistic societies so it takes longer unless there are major crises like depressions, hyperinflation or war. The Left is always in waiting and going through specific steps to achieve their collectivist state. Teh main thing that has to be done is to corrupt the entire society through the tenents of collectivism. It must become tolerable if not morally superior to steal from one group to give to another. It must also become socially desireable to sanction one group to the benefit of another. This is done through the regulatory state and government "investments" which direct money to favored industries, contributors and support groups like Krupps (German), unions, ACORN, etc. Then there is the time of that last little leap to totalitarianism. The night of long knives has to happen in the midst of large public support. People are suckers for this kind of stuff as long as you promise some future utopia or a check.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:45 | 3025864 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Srry, Hitler started killing communists, social democrats, unionists, liberals, intellectuals , SA ( brownshirts ), then Jews and Gypsies .... with a little help from Uncle Sam. 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:05 | 3025953 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

I think ironically the best hope for liberty in America may rest with the military; a charismatic patriotic group of generals and mid-level captains might actually uphold the Constitution better than SCOTUS.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 05:06 | 3026109 cossack55
cossack55's picture

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

Dr. Sam Johnson

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:55 | 3025691 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Sold it huh?  I lost 10 of my guns in a boating accident.  Wink, wink. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:13 | 3025815 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

Yup, evil damn plastic/metal gun.

Sorry about your loss. You probably lost some precious metals as well. My sorrows to you.

I found a couple of links to help you with your sorrow/depression from you loss. I thought I might get rid of them by passing them on. There are occasionally some deals.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 05:10 | 3026112 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I am afraid you are fighting the last war, my friend.  Drones can/will follow orders from 10,000 feet.  I'd wager 10% of the military is into the whole "love to kill" psycho thing. Plenty of operators, until the drones go autonomous.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 08:31 | 3026175 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

The "right" and practice of owning guns just creates the illusion that the populace has an ace-in-the-hole against a totalitarian government.

That may have been true a hundred years ago but in the age of drones and the NSA watching the blogs for signs of organized opposition, and in the age where Hollywood and the MSM coordinate the perception of reality which most people (even gun owners) operate under, the right to bear arms may actually be keeping people from noticing that the temperature of the boiling pot is rising...

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 09:09 | 3026201 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

Don't forget about the UN Small Arms Treaty. 

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:00 | 3026228 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Guns are terrible.   Let's all get on record here for the bots saying so, deploring we ever had any, in the bad evil past,

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:35 | 3025854 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Actually most of that ammo was purchased for running to jihadis so they could overthrow some governments for us and destabilize countries.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:36 | 3025855 hairball48
hairball48's picture

It's called "Homeland Security"

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:48 | 3025994 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I have met far too military people who support the flag, not the constitution, and are unclear that there's a difference.

That's where the skin meets the pavement.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 07:32 | 3026155 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

It would be interesting to see who (of the generals) has been retired early, or careers cut short because of scandal ????? * I suspect there is quite a large group of senior people in the military who want to defend the constitution, and bring down the 'complex'.

* or is that good guys bringing down puppets?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:02 | 3026230 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Or they support the administrative state and all of its goodies(entitlements) and not the constitution the administrative states makes a laughingstock of.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 04:36 | 3026098 Joe A
Joe A's picture

That is right. The Gestapo and more the SS kept the German army at bay and far away from home by having them fight wars. The ancient Romans did the same thing. The armies were spread over Europe and no army was allowed to cross the river Rubicon. An army doing that was considered to revolt against Rome.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 15:20 | 3030404 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 14:31 | 3026537 PGR88
PGR88's picture

The military is only relevant outside the USA

Within the USA, we now have so many para-military police, the military won't need to lift a finger.  Even the EPA has its own police-force now.  Our little town just bought (or was given) a massive tank-like armored car, courtesy of a "grant" from the Dept. of Homeland Security.  All I could think is "WHY?"

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:34 | 3026280 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Cutting consumption in half has already been taken care of-

Compliance with the forthcoming Obamacare regulations on private businesses in the US will lead to a massive reduction in energy consumption, and hence real GDP, in the next 24 months.

The impotent can diddle with tax rates all they like, but the ratio of government spending to tax receipts will EXPLODE, regardless of the FED's efforts to inflate away the State's debt problems.

Tinkering with statistics and money supply can only obfuscate so much reality, stupidity and failed education education system can only forestall the recognition of reality so long, then there is DEPRESSION.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:57 | 3025314 CH1
CH1's picture

Agreed, but I don't want to "take back government."

Government is organized force, devoted to perpetual robbery. It is immoral in its essence.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:04 | 3025340 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"People will eventually regain control of their government. They always do."

Yet another fuckin' stupid-ass Hopium junkie. Dangerously stupid.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:17 | 3025505 Umh
Umh's picture

He didn't say in which century; he just said eventually.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:42 | 3025764 Incubus
Incubus's picture

they never do;


the average dog thinks he owns his yard, too.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 07:34 | 3026156 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

they can't do nothing if they dont have your tax dollars.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:22 | 3025389 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I dont want to take back anything that wasnt mine to begin with.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:08 | 3025708 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Say, that just gave me a thought....

Did you notice the old-timey propoganda graphic used with this story?  American rolling up his sleeves and getting to work on some monumental task for the good of the country.

What would today's propoganda graphic look like?  Morbidly obese guy laying on the couch drinking beer and chugging Cheetos with a remote in one hand and his EBT card in the other, bong on the floor next to his couch.

Oh, that's just wrong.  I really went too far this time.  I pre-apologize.  Don't know how my mouse ever made it to the "save" button to actually put that comment up.  Yet somehow it did. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:35 | 3025753 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Hey, me just gettin my suave Irish inspired korean face out of bed each day is good for America.  Vote sucession while you still can. Gov of one plus family and friends.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:29 | 3025401 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

So anarchy is the solution then? What happens if someone disagrees with the anarchy and starts a government that gains power? Stop them with force? You couldn't because that would be against your own principles.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:32 | 3025405 CH1
CH1's picture

What happens if someone disagrees with the anarchy and starts a government that gains power? Stop them with force?

Nope, they can do whatever the hell they want - smart or stupid. They just can't force us to live their way.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:50 | 3025995 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Anarchy doesn't have the kind of rules described here.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:51 | 3025451 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

CH1, I disagree.


If a government can be restrained to simply enforce justice between individuals in society, and in turn protect that society from outside aggression, then government will have fulfilled its noble purposes.


Those purposes do exist, and have demand. 

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:42 | 3025544 CH1
CH1's picture

Hi NE Pat, a few comments:


1. Guv can never really be retstrained. It's a monopoly on force, and Acton was correct that power corrupts. In the end, we always end up with corrupt force. And, as I said above, the operation is immoral by nature. Evil seeds bear evil fruit.

2. Outside agression is pretty much the same as inside agression. Boss A versus Boss B. Government is geo-stationary conquest. The changeovers can be horrid, but that's also a function of governement: People may fight from time to time, but states fight non-stop. Of 200 states, 20-30 are always actively fighting. Compare that to your neighbors.

3. I agree that being safe from agression is a good purpose, but hiring an agressor to prevent agression is not, IMO, a good strategy.


Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:24 | 3026265 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture



Good thoughts, but a few counter points.


The use of force is sometimes moral. Government that properly understands where and when force is moral can be a successful agent of the natural law. I am in favor of this. There is such a thing as good government. The problem is that human beings are inevitably fallible, and will tend to seek power for themselves in the form of corruption. 


A good government needs to be restrained by a constitution of some kind, with clearly enumerated powers. Our Constitution here in the United States is a good example of that. Once again, the problem is when the government "jumps the shark" and seeks to expand its powers outside the boundaries of its lawful mandate.


I don't want to come across here as saying that we're in danger of getting government right here on Earth any time in the near term. Really, our best bet is to deny government as much power as we can, while still enabling it to perform the moral act of protecting the truly oppressed through the use of force. 


And remember, aggression against an aggressor is not immoral in the least.


Until Christ returns, I don't hold out much hope for government. Periodically, we will need to revolutionize governments when they get too far out of balance with real justice.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:59 | 3025324 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The faster we get it over with. The faster we can rebuild.


"Avoid the five most common gold and silver mistakes. Know when to sell."

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:05 | 3025344 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"We" have little say in the matter. To believe so, is to empower the criminals bent on destruction.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:10 | 3025360 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

The sooner we do this, the smaller my liver will be.

Sun, 12/02/2012 - 06:42 | 3027713 e-recep
e-recep's picture

it would be the easy way out. naah, it wont happen, rome didnt fall in one day. it will be the hard way, the middle class will rot to the core for many years to come.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:01 | 3025335 prains
prains's picture

The “greatest generation” handed us a gift and we fumbled it away by allowing government to run wild.


but you make the mistake that the govt is controlled by politicians and not the 0.1% which CALL ALL THE SHOTS, you need to go one floor higher in your search for BLAME>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FORWARD, next floor please.......ding

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:51 | 3026000 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Then look for the door with no sign on it.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:08 | 3025352 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

We should have had a depression four years ago when people were not as angry, worn down, depressed and penniless as they are today. A depression is now out of the question. Chaos is unfortunately a more likely outcome and will manifest tself with riots, wars, intrusive government and more circuses than ever.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:24 | 3025514 Umh
Umh's picture

They were to busy not wasting a crisis.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:40 | 3025762 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

Well sir, one having seen the destiny that confronts, one should make provisions to minimize the dangers perceived, real or imagined, by acting accordingly to minimize such dangers to oneself and family.

I send blessings to those that do so. The rest of the herd, deserves what they get as Darwin always wins.


Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:53 | 3026002 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture


We should have had a depression four years ago when people were not as angry, worn down, depressed and penniless as they are today. A depression is now out of the question.

Are you saying we're too depressed to have a depression? Then I say, hand out Prozac all around and lets get the party started.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:06 | 3026239 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yay circuses!    These are the times that entertain men's souls.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:24 | 3025392 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

Keynesian thought leaders Krugman and Delong won't allow a Depression.  They would rather we spend money until everywhere looks like Detroit.

This is worth the click.  It's not about golf.

Pulitzer Prize Winning Reporter Golfs The Dying Streets Of Detroit

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:07 | 3025491 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Amusing & good look at the city but kind of a thinly-disguised ad for higher taxes for more public employees...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:53 | 3025310 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Off-topic, big gold heist in Curacao

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:03 | 3025339 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Shipping 11 million worth of Gold by fishing boat? I don't think so.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:10 | 3025362 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

And your take JLee ?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:45 | 3025440 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Insurance scam? Hiding assets from the ex in a divorce? I don't know. But if I had 11 million in Gold, I sure as heck wouldn't put it on a small 50 year old vessel in poor condition and then tell the enough people what was on board so I would be robbed by a specially-dressed-for-the-occassion and prepared Gang. Inside scam of some kind.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:37 | 3025535 Esso
Esso's picture

Gold lost in a boating misadventure? I wonder which ZH poster it was.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:39 | 3025660 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Is that where they make that blue triple-sec stuff?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:55 | 3025316 Itch
Itch's picture

Sell your soul for a sausage roll.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:57 | 3025322 kengland
kengland's picture

So long as that ends the central banking concept. My fear would be CB's would survive a dep

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:00 | 3025330 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Narrow in scope, disjointed, and pointless.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:26 | 3025834 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

"The “greatest generation” handed us a gift and we fumbled it away by allowing government to run wild."


BULL-FUCKING-SHIT! The "greatest" generation laid the groundwork for this mess. Big government, nanny state, Great Society, Squids, affirmative action, medicare, social security.  The greatest generation? WTFUUUCK?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:03 | 3025332 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

We have been in a depression since 2008. Look at bond prices, and interest rates. A ZIRP economy, with endless $ printing is like Hugo Chavez saying he is cancer free!

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:10 | 3025361 Oquities
Oquities's picture

contained depression (due to social spending), corralled deflation (in real estate and interest rates exclusively so far), and inflationary monetarism (soon to explode).

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:40 | 3025545 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Well said.  Our tyrant leaders don't understand that their financial perversions are cumulative.  The longer this lasts, the greater the dislocations when things snap back to reality.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:06 | 3025348 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

The “greatest generation” handed us a gift and we fumbled it away by allowing government to run wild.

Never truer words written ...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:11 | 3025368 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Yeah - by killing all those fucking Germans!

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:09 | 3026244 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

and fucking nips ?

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:14 | 3026252 knukles
knukles's picture

I've never had an asian girl....
Is it true their snortches go sideways?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:12 | 3025370 prains
prains's picture

you need to aim higher

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:19 | 3025379 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Government ALWAYS runs wild. Take a look back at any time period, and you will see how it has always functioned as a predator.

The only difference about "this time," is your front-row seat.

Lincoln DESTROYED the voluntary union.

Wilson DESTROYED the peaceful republic.

FDR... well, what didn't he destroy?

It's all about incrementalism. You're born into one environment that ALWAYS decays before disappearing before your eyes (if one bothers to look).

Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Our lives are at stake here.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:52 | 3025460 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

"The “greatest generation” handed us a gift" is another propaganda lie.

We were handed a polluted world run by a few psychopathic banking families.  The "greatest generation" did not have the nuts to call the banksters out and end the charade. They are sheeples, cowards and cover their asses with all manners of lies.

I will not pass the world on to my kid(s) in the current state of confusion and despair.  I am busy cleaning up the "greatest generations" messes.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:35 | 3025652 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

THANK YOU.  Great reply.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:45 | 3025554 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

If by "gift" the author meant "ticking bomb", then sure- they are the ones that sowed the dragons teeth of government gone nuts then died as they sprouted.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 02:25 | 3026034 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

If we did not have the internet available, we'd not know much of what was hidden from "the great generation."  

Without a news source that informs the people of an accurate sequence of events and the people who are involved (investigative unbiased journalism), it is hopeless to expect anything but what we have today.  Last minute news, when it is too late to contact your representatives to object to life-changing legislature being passed, is the best I have seen coming out of MSM. 

Boycotting the media may work but half the citizens do not even watch the news:


On a typical day...

  • 57% of Americans watch TV news
  • 54% watch their local news
  • 34% watch cable news channels
  • 28% watch the nightly network news
  • 23% watch the morning news programs (The Today Show, Good Morning America, etc.)
  • 40% of Americans read a newspaper
  • 36% of Americans listen to news on the radio
  • 23 % of Americans get news online
  • 18% visit news aggregators (Google News, Yahoo! News, AOL News, etc.)
  • 14% visit national TV networks' sites (,,, etc.)
  • 14% visit newspaper Web sites
  • 4% visit news blogs
  • 3% visit online news magazines (,, etc.)
  • (2006)

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:08 | 3025350 Jugdish
    Jugdish's picture

    We won't be so lucky. The Golden Age of America 1946-2001 is over. Bit by bit your lot in life will become shittier and shittier. Incrementally and tightly controlled so as not to arouse your anger. The Matrix has you. You will not escape. Do your time on this spinning rock and pass on. No golden age awaits you here. Look around. The vast majority love the game, the theft, the lies, the deciet, the freakshow media and hollywood, the casino-gulag. If you don't the lie you are in a very small minority and your fantasy of a new way of life are just that - fantasy. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:18 | 3025376 HelluvaEngineer
    HelluvaEngineer's picture

    The future of America depends on small groups of strong-willed people who are able to keep their fucking mouths shut.

    Just IMO.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:24 | 3025634 NidStyles
    NidStyles's picture

    What Engineer said, it should be something everyone understands already. Just shut your trap and do what you need to do. No one needs to know what goes on when you are not around them.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:08 | 3025355 sschu
    sschu's picture

    It is naive to think that a depression or economic collapse will result in smaller government and more freedoms.  History points in quite the opposite direction.  

    The love of freedom and the experience with big government should overcome decades-long madness.

    Anyone who believes this gibberish is a fool.  More and bigger government with freedom-limiting rules and regulations will be the result of our folly.

    Power is the ultimate elixir, government provides this power to those who seek it.  Warnings have been forthcoming for a long time, too bad we did not heed them.



    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:24 | 3025394 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    Worse yet, this guy uses Hayek and Mises as his role models.

    I would make a guess that he's making a disingenuous effort to smear the two, but sadly, the incoherence of statists provides all the motivation needed to explain his brain fog.

    Statism, enslaving mankind via violence in order to create Utopia. Yep, that's a great fuckin' gift all right.

    Thankfully it's almost beer-thirty.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:14 | 3025889 Anusocracy
    Anusocracy's picture

    I prefer to use the word control rather than power. Power is a bit of a euphemism, whereas control explains exactly what government does.

    Control is a powerful survival adaptation in nature and in human organizations.


    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:51 | 3025375 Yen Cross
    Yen Cross's picture

     All those desperate,so called technicians keep talking about how cheap the SPX is at just over $10 multiples... Look at volume and net outflows!

      The fiscal cliff is a joke! Demand isn't there to support the kinds of multiples that these clowns are looking for. The fiscal cliff is a lose/lose scenario. Either way revenue is going to get taken out of the economy. 

      The SNAP Card /Entitlement economy, needs to be trimmed! The monkeys in Washington know how out of control things are.... They're just spineless puppets!

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:26 | 3025383 blindman
    blindman's picture

    did someone mention the math of debt as money
    at interest in a fractional reserve setting,
    all controlled by a private central bank makes
    everyone a slave to the bankers? it is getting
    old and obvious? no?
    oh right, it is the government that need be
    demonized. the idea of it, the meaning of it
    destroyed. ok, government as enabler of the overriding
    financial concern should be destroyed and humiliated
    for the prostitute that it may become but the idea
    and potential of government must be differentiated
    from this model or conceptual system. we the people
    does not translate in any equivalency to "we the
    fucking central banks" ! cia ( read the bankers )...
    Guns and Butter
    Friday November 30 9:00am
    1 hour
    keywords: financial concern vs commons. public
    vs private. underwriting. "creamin' it".(the artist
    taxi driver). war for profit, ongoing.
    regarding the existence , or not, of the devil.
    Tom Waits - Heart Attack and Vine
    it starts out ..." liar, liar with your pants on fire .."
    and just goes to ,
    gets to the point from there.
    " ...bonnie's high on china white
    shorty found a punk
    don't you know there ain't no devil
    there's just god when he's drunk
    this stuff will probably kill you
    let's do another line
    you'll probably see someone you know
    on heart attack and vine ",, ....t.w.
    stop me if you've heard this one before....
    these simple words lead to a world, inexorably
    and forever recurring yet gone for better or worse.
    so, there ya go. left with a lyric from a song, a play
    from a tired room, an argument tied to a paycheck
    or a horse in a race where the jockeys have been drugged.
    speaking of jockeys ....
    Screamin` Jay Hawkins - Heart Attack & Vine
    Tom Waits - Heartattack and Vine ( the original version )
    iv'e found this last version does not get old, odd.
    Jockey Full of Bourbon
    and to tie it together, the lead scientist sighted by
    the "authorities" supporting the notion that vaccines
    are not associated with autism happens to be on the
    most wanted list for committing financial fraud of some
    sort. i'm shocked. don't know about u
    Gary Null - The Natural Living Show
    Friday November 30 12:00pm
    1 hour

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:21 | 3025384 hannah
    hannah's picture

    cant tell you how many times i have been told that the 'greatest generation' ceated the world. cant tell you how many times i have been told by a person that age that tells me they are owed somthing...greatest generation of entitled spoiled 'i got mine'.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:15 | 3025617 Parrotile
    Parrotile's picture

    In Australia, they are the "I've got RIGHTS Mate!" generation - a phrase I hear every day at work in Secondary Healthcare.

    Seems the "Rights come with RESPONSIBILITIES TOO" message has been conveniently forgotten . . . . . Responsibilities nowadays are firmly in the "Someone else's problem" basket.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:41 | 3025923 Anusocracy
    Anusocracy's picture

    The Lucky Country imported too many socialists from Europe and third world countries.


    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:24 | 3025393 DaveA
    DaveA's picture

    There's a right time and a wrong time to have an economic collapse. If you're over 85 and taking dozens of pills just to stay alive, die happy, you had a good run. If you're under 50 and in good health, fight your way through the chaos and build a new life on the other side.

    If the collapse hits just after you retire, you're screwed. All the savings and pensions you worked so hard to earn are gone. Stake out a good dumpster and defend it to the death.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:52 | 3025685 Things that go bump
    Things that go bump's picture

    And death won't be long in coming, because that is the age when the bill comes due for the all the deadly sins you have indulged in during your ill-spent life.  

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:26 | 3025396 Dasa Slooofoot
    Dasa Slooofoot's picture

    More than any other segment of society, the military respects and supports the Constitution. If push comes to shove, they are likely to defend the Constitution rather than the government.



    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:32 | 3025414 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    And even if it were to be true, those kids will all be too busy chasing down brown people in some far off land.

    Well, except for all of foreigners serving in order to get a green card. They'll keep them around here in sufficient numbers. Even the failed General Washington understood that when he ordered the "Whiskey Rebellion" suppressed.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:31 | 3025410 MedicalQuack
    MedicalQuack's picture

    We also need to put a stop to dirty code and algorithms, like the banks use that CEOs can't understand and those algorithms seem to keep losing their (our) money. 

    Quotes from the video: “with software you can do anything but not so in real life”…”you become so isolated from the real world”…”making money is like a drug”…”you are just so much better than anyone else”…” I used to be a computer programmer at a major player  on Wall Street that is no longer among us for obvious reasons”…”I did the plumbing, not the model itself but the infrastructure surrounding the model”…”I could do it sleeping”…”why I decided to stay off camera and anonymous”…”we sold the software to all the investment banks”…”I left in 2000 and after that it went nuts”…”CEOs are actually fantastic instruments when they slice and dice”…”I have to apologize to the planet (said the quant)”..”I have the ability to see patterns and abstract mathematical symbols”…(most programmers do)…”the managers just have to believe the quants”…”if it’s a hedge fund they are taking a percentage of the money even if you go bankrupt, they don’t lose money it’s the client’s money that is lost”…”wait a minute (developer) these guys are out of control (Wall Street)”…”because I was a technologist I did not fully understand what was going on”…”you have to have some kind of responsibility”…”If people don’t complain now, it serves them right (quant)”…

    ”people that are in the business now refuse to talk to the press as they would probably be fired”…”you have to be perfect and you have to be right all the time, if the software fails you lose millions and billions”…”it’s a lot of stress”…(that goes for almost any software development, healthcare included)…”you wake up and you don’t know what day it is”…”banking has completely lost touch with it’s purpose”…”sometimes the real world is just dirty (quant)”…'”Quant back to the drawing board and re-do your numbers change the math and make it look less risky”….”hide the risk”…”once you have too much mathematics, it’s difficult to see where the mistakes are”…”banking has become so enormous it has outstripped all other businesses when it should be supporting”…”hedge funds get the black boxes as close as they can to the exchange”…”a black box has a secret or a formula inside, stock prices, etc. that tells you what to trade”…”Google search, trading on what people are searching for”…”people say Goldman itself is a black box, we don’t know how it makes all it’s money”…

    Only video of it's kind...

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:36 | 3025422 divide_by_zero
    divide_by_zero's picture

    Far from handing us a gift, the "greatest generation" had a heavy hand in this shitshow.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:51 | 3025457 TimmyB
    TimmyB's picture

    The author doesn't know what he is writing about.  The term recession has a technical meaning.  GNP isn't currently decreasing, so the "recession" as that term is defined has ended.  However, as we can all see, the recovery from that recession isn't very strong. 

    BTW this quote is complete nonsense:

    The “greatest generation” handed us a gift and we fumbled it away by allowing government to run wild. We cannot turn this mess over to future generations. We must take our country back and remedy the problems.

    If you don't think that "government ran wild" during WWII, when the government had complete control of the entire economy, when there were tens of millions of Americans serving in the military and when high taxes and huge government deficits to fund that war were the order of the day, then you don't know shit about history.  Keynesian spending was the order of the day, and when the author argues it doesn't work, but ends by claiming that its results were a great gift to us, he is arguing against himself.  

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:07 | 3025599 Umh
    Umh's picture

    You are right, but they started using the term recession because FDR was trying to avoid saying depression. I actually see many parrallels between FDR and Obama. Mostly I see that the people like being told it's going to be fixed by taxing someone else AND without costing them anything.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:06 | 3025799 DirkDiggler11
    DirkDiggler11's picture

    Perhaps the "gift" he is Referring to is the fact that half of the globe is not speaking German and the other half Japanese ?

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 12:17 | 3026395 pfairley
    pfairley's picture

    Somewhat true. Paul Krugman made this argument that WW2 shows that even ill spent stimulus is good. That needs so much qualification it seems seriously in error. UK had a War stimulus and did not do as well as USA,struggling after WW2... a 1970's IMF bailout, and still struggling even with North Sea oil windfall. USA had huge exports in the 1940's to Russia. UK and other allies, making USA similar to China today except for the govt debt. USA exports with todays debt, & deficits paint a very different situation than the 1940's.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:09 | 3025493 Bansters-in-my-...
    Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

    " More than any other segment of society, the military respects and supports the Constitution. If push comes to shove, they are likely to "

    Too funny.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:12 | 3025497 oddjob
    oddjob's picture

    Lets just bypass any sort of accountibility or justice and proceed right to arranged public suffering. You are beneath weak, a spineless fiat apologist.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:24 | 3025515 negative rates
    negative rates's picture

    That debt hangover, combined with the bender he went on with Amanda, is enough to have anyone cryin uncle.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:27 | 3025516 woggie
    woggie's picture

    man, is this right on. whether it's cultural rot, rampant socialism/marism, debt induced economic implosion or combo (probably) the dye is cast. i hope the real money realizes the reformation leverage is depression; it's been known to get heads straight real quick.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:40 | 3025661 newengland
    newengland's picture

    And the irony is that those with most to lose are willing to pay the most, for the return of the Republic of the USA.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:42 | 3025548 honestann
    honestann's picture

    The military will not defend the constitution against the predators-DBA-government.  Those predators have blatantly violated the constitution for decades, and nobody in the military has done anything I can see.

    All this optimism about people standing against tyranny is laughable.  People have not stood against tyranny in any significant way, and they won't, outside a few rare and isolated cases.

    What people don't understand, but the predators-class does, is that modern technology makes permanent tyranny quite possible, and at this point in time, almost certain.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:18 | 3025657 newengland
    newengland's picture


    You are defeatist, a worthy wage and tax slave.

    My beloved reminds me that people like you and politicians can do whatever you like...until your dystopia arrives in our privately owned lane...and then he will blow your heads clean off.

    The USA is a Republic, not a kowtowing snivelling back stabbling socialist, communist, monarchist, corporatist bully boy girl. I pity your sort. Stay out of our way.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:34 | 3025817 honestann
    honestann's picture

    No, I am not.  I left the USSA 3 years ago, and with great effort and expense created an almost entirely self-sufficient existence in the extremely remote boonies elsewhere on this planet.  I did my part, warning against tyranny, not supporting or sanctioning tyranny, and avoiding every last bit I could without being overtly suicidal.

    In all those decades I hearn virtually nothing but sanctions, defenses, apologies and justifications for tyrannny, authoritarianism, predators-DBA-government, predators-DBA-corporations and endless other fictitious entities claiming authority over everyone.

    I did not participate in the fads and stupidities that virtually everyone suckered for.  I never borrowed a cent, I avoided all debt, I always lived frugally, I worked 100 hours per week for decade after decade designing, developing and implementing new products and generally staying productive.

    In short, I stayed honest, stayed productive, worked my butt off, spent as little as possible, and saved as much as I could (in physical metals, which was just part of being honest and not supporting the fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve predators that virtually everyone else supports indirectly, if not directly).

    And when I saw that the vast majority of regular folks would rather defend, support and sanction tyranny, I explored the planet, found the best places in the most remote, extreme boonies, and chose the one most suitable to me.  And I moved.  And I took my savings and created a self-sufficient place, utterly disconnected from any corporate or government system.  And, in fact, invisible for practical purposes.

    The USSA is a republic only in theory.  In FACT it has been utterly taken over by predators who utterly ignore the constitution and even their own laws.  The USSA is pure tyranny of elitists, no matter what you choose to call it.

    And you are the problem.  All you who imagine mere words mean something, but the reality around you is irrelevant.  Well, indeed, on paper, in theory, the USA gives some lip service to all the right things.  However, in fact, in physical fact, and in actions, the USSA is pure, unadulterated tyranny.  And those of you who imagine words on some piece of paper will save your butt... are doomed, utterly doomed.

    I lived my life consistent with honesty, liberty, productivity and benevolence when nobody else around me did --- at least not consistently.  I earned my liberty at great cost, effort, expense and denial of the "easy life", and others around me did not.  I earned the better life that I will enjoy for the rest of my years.  Most others did not bother, and they will suffer the consequences.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:46 | 3025931 newengland
    newengland's picture


    You ran away, rather than stood your ground and defend the Republic. The slaves you employ will plot your demise.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 23:29 | 3026081 honestann
    honestann's picture

    You need to learn to SEE... and READ.

    There IS no republic.  If you believe there is one, you are terminally insane.

    Also, I would have been happy to remain and defend the liberty of people who value liberty and were willing to defend their liberty themselves --- no matter where in the universe they happen to live.  However, there seemed to be fewer than 10 people willing and able to do the same, rather than just talk about it.

    Where do you get your drivel from, anyway?  I don't employ anyone, and the only people trying to plot my demise are predators and people like you, who I have effectively escaped.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:44 | 3025671 woggie
    woggie's picture

    let's speculate:

    if obama declared tomorrow he was unilaterally terminating the Constitution, where would the Congress and Joint Chief of Staffs stand? and, if they declined to support the Constitution, what and how many citizens would mount an opposition?


    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:28 | 3025836 honestann
    honestann's picture

    Very few, if you mean real physical opposition.  Would many people moan, groan, write blogs and generally complain?  Certainly, just like everyone does already, about a great many issues.

    The fact is, the entire administration, congress and court system decline to support the constitution at least 5 days every week (RonPaul being the only exception).  They will continue to take an oath to the constitution, then royally and fatally destroy it every day.

    However, they will not openly say "we hereby discard the constitution".  Why would they?  They pass endless laws that blatantly violate the constitution.  The TSA, for example, is a 100% blatant offense against the constitution (4th amendment).

    Every single scumbag in congress and administration that the only honest, lawful, legal, legitimate, constitutional way the 4th amendment or any other provision in the constitution can be ignored... is to pass a constitutional ammendment.  They explicitly did not, they passed a stupid law that is 100% invalid, and they know that, and they have it enforced anyway... on tens or hundreds of millions of people every year.

    That is willful tyranny.  That is willfully discarding the constitution and their oaths of office.  They are predators.  Period.  The fiction that is called the USSA is pure predatory tyranny.

    And the final nail in the coffin is this.  The predators can do anything they want, and nobody will do a damn thing about it, as long as the predators do not say "we are masters and you are slaves".  Thus the sheeple have enshrined the predators by their silence and sanction and often willing support of tyranny.

    What matters is reality, not words!  Why does nobody understand this?

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:44 | 3025929 newengland
    newengland's picture

    Good luck to you and yours, ann.

    The Republic is made of sterner stuff, the 3%. My land, my neighbors. Our values.

    'The cynic knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.' (Oscar Wilde)

    When you are surrounded by slaves who want to kill you,  ask yourself why you put money above values.

    Mon, 12/03/2012 - 02:16 | 3027598 honestann
    honestann's picture

    I treat my neighbors honorably, and get along with them vastly better than any westerners (or easterners) I've ever met.  They'd rather take a bullet than risk someone harms me, and I feel the same way about them.  Of course, when I say "neighbors", you need to understand how low the population density is in the areas I considered - typically 1000s to 10000s of square kilometers per human being.

    PS:  You do not read (or else comprehend) what I write.  I spent most of my money in order to establish my independence and self-sufficiency.  If I loved money so much, I would have kept saving it.  And if you consider "federal reserve [debt] notes" to be money, you should have noticed that virtually 100% of my savings were physical gold, silver, platinum (that is, "real stuff", not what you likely consider "money").

    What I have now is worth more than money: liberty, safety, security, self-sufficiency, and honorable neighbors.  Oh, and my own dinky little 650 pound (dry), 75mpg high-tech aircraft that can take me anywhere I want to go, when I want to go (even 4000+ km non-stop), including across artificial, fictional borders (which I do often, and always without approval, paperwork or predators involved).  I have more liberty in my little finger than anyone who talks about any so-called "republic".

    Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:35 | 3027603 honestann
    honestann's picture

    It is you who live where the slaves want to kill you... very slowly though, as they bleed everything they can from you.  You live in the predator-parasite controlled nation, where they bleed producers dry... producers who stand for it because some fool on some media channel calls it a "republic".

    If you're a producer, how sad for you.  If you're a predator or parasite, you live in paradise.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:01 | 3025948 Anusocracy
    Anusocracy's picture

    Because there is no room for reality in most people's heads.

    There is mentalist cognition and mechanist cognition and your brain is mechanist while most other's are mentalist.

    Mentalism and Mechanism - the twin modes of human cognition by Christopher Badcock

    btw, which continent did you move to?

    Sun, 12/02/2012 - 02:10 | 3026093 honestann
    honestann's picture

    there is no room for reality in most people's heads.

    Yeah, no kidding.  And apparently a huge majority of the population is utterly unaware they are almost entirely controlled by mental content that they absorbed without significant consideration.  So now they're controlled by a near-random accumulation of predator-crafted soundbites, and incapable of making coherent sense of anything.  For someone who focuses on reality, modern humans are stunning in their ability to almost completely detach from reality, and be manipulated by [almost entirely baseless] abstractions and sound-bites.

    I don't say where I went for privacy and security reasons, but I have posted discussions of the places I seriously considered, and my judgements about the most appropriate bases to consider locations.  You can probably find some of these past ZH messages, some of which I'm fairly certain were within the past 3 months.

    Note that some conclusions I came to are very counter-intuitive, but very much "reality oriented" rather than "theory oriented".  For example, some of the best place to relocate have horrible "government" - in theory.

    In these cases the "rulers" are so petty and small-minded, they pretty much only squabble with other political-minded dimwits, and only in/near the capital city.  When such a country is large or "scattered" (like dozens to hundreds of outlying islands), and the government is run like a bunch of keystone cops (and only in/near the capital city/island), the outlying locations are often virtually government-free (in practice), and therefore wonderful places to live (in practice).

    A few places I seriously considered moving to include: South America (the high andes and deserts in argentina, chile. ecuador, peru), south pacific islands (some outlying islands in inhabited island groups like fiji and others, several uninhabited islands), nepal, iceland, mongolia... and a few other places.  I really didn't give africa a fair shake... just ran out of time to explore further.

    Perhaps the most important principle is this:  Never live where you are citizen!  Pretty much every government today considers every citizen as their slave, but considers tourists more like "welcome if not honored guests" who they expect to spend outside money into their economy.  Never live where you are citizen!

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 14:50 | 3026562 NuYawkFrankie
    NuYawkFrankie's picture

    Agreed . "The Military" doesn't give a rats about The Constitution. Probably can't even spell it.


    If it did, why would "The Military" be fighting UCONSTITUTIONAL & ILLEGAL Wars Of Aggression on phoney pretexts ? 

    Wars which are prosecutable - for targeting defenseless populations - under the Nuremberg Trials rules - drawn up largely by non other than the USA ?


    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:53 | 3025557 lakecity55
    lakecity55's picture

    Stay positive. Once the reptiles rip off their masks, they will be easy targets. We need some of those glasses the guy had in that movie what revealed their disguise.

    But, hyperinflation ruined the Weimar, brought O'Twinkies' dad into power, they had a Police State, they got destroyed in a war, and only after all of that did they get to rebuild, and then the Red Shield Clan moved back in.

    Weird Reptile Karma, baby.

    You can't make this up. Earth vs. Reptilian gold hoarders.

    They Live:

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:33 | 3025649 newengland
    newengland's picture

    Ace article. And remember this: only 3% fought in the War of Indpendence. Others made supply lines or stayed out of the fray.

    The Republic is NOT a democracy, despite the re-writing of history post WWII by crypto-monarchists and crypto-communists. They are corporatists, wedded to the idea of big government, big banks and the chosen few big companies, served by brat academics shilling for them, eg Krugman and the New York Times.


    The USA was built on the concept of real community, one for all, all for one; no one takes more than they give. Everyone gives more than they take.

    That is the Republic of the United States of America. Home to all who support the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, and distant friend of other countries who sadly choose monarchy, despots and corporatists ... the corporatists who are trying to own the Republic under the scam of 'democracy'.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 01:10 | 3025956 Anusocracy
    Anusocracy's picture

    I recommend for you to read No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 21:54 | 3025690 topspinslicer
    topspinslicer's picture


    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:13 | 3025717 grunk
    grunk's picture

    Go to the Wahington Post comment sections.

    Nothing bu government dependency.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 22:16 | 3025725 CheapBastard
    CheapBastard's picture

    The 'recession' ended for MSM when Bankers were handed Billion dollar bonuses (via TARP, etc) by the Fed.  Check out the record high bonuses again this year at GS.

    Fri, 11/30/2012 - 23:53 | 3025862 steve from virginia
    steve from virginia's picture


    More bilge from the Ayn Rand-von Mises crowd, it never ends with these fools:


    The country’s economic problems began decades ago.


    Indeed they did, over-consumption began during the 1950s aided by television advertising, the most effective vehicle for propaganda ... ever!


    In trying to cover them (problems) up with economic interventions (stimuli), government actions prevented the economy from correcting the imbalances that caused slow growth.


    This is factually incorrect. Keynesianism has worked. The growth since 1950 was enabled by non-stop stimuli -- 'military-industrial complex' plus trillion$ in auto-highway-development related subsidies and debt guarantees:

     - Nuclear arms race,

     - Interstate highway system,

     - Revenue sharing for highway construction for non-interstate roads and other projects,

     - Tax write-offs and depletion allowances for oil/coal industry,

     - Direct subsidy of nuclear power industry including acceptance of all liabilities, provision of fuel for reactors, and over-ride of local ordinances,

     - Direct subidies for tract-house builders including tax expenditures, mortgage interest deduction, accelerated capital gains, subsidized mortgage origination (FHA, VA, FMHA, then Fannie-Freddie), guarantees for banks and favorable zoning models,

     - Direct subsidies for auto industries including purchases, military contracts, credit and tax advantages,

     - Direct subsidies to finance and insurance industries including access to Federal Reserve discount window,

     - Direct subsidies to airline industries, including 'free' airports and use of airspace; quashing of US railroad system,

     - Subsidized advertising (sweetheart deals for networks, collusion on airways then permitted monopolies), end of Fairness Doctrine, leading to the sale of government/elections to media,

     - Sale of government to insiders such as Koch brothers and Warren Buffett, TBTF banks and overseas finance such as UBS  leading to dominion by Goldman-Sachs, Citi and JP Morgan-Chase. All of the above financed with hundreds of billions/trillions of debt.

    What's there not to like? Take away the handouts to well-connected insiders and there is no growth at all ... starting in 1950!


    Keep in mind, the public sector deficit is the private sector's surplus. The private sector cannot run perpetual deficits needed to service the private sector debts only the public sector can run perpetual deficits: the public sector is servicing the private sector. Don't believe me just watch what happens with the public is less able to run deficits: the private sector will collapse. The reason for the private sector debt is because no industrial enterprise can pay its own way. If it could it would: there would be no debts at all.

    'Slow growth' is happening NOW b/c the world has literally 'run out of gas (cheap petroleum).'


    From a political standpoint, economic policies encouraged institutions and people to use debt to live beyond their means. The massive debt buildup in both the economy and the government hid the underlying problems and allowed them to grow ever larger and more malignant out of sight.


    Finally, something sensible.


    After decades of such interventions, the economy no longer is able to function efficiently. In order to remedy the problems, massive liquidations of debt and misallocated assets are necessary. There is no other way to achieve an economic cleansing.


    What is this, a car wash? What is this 'cleansing' all about? What do you want: virtue or more consumption? Debt isn't the problem as much as the absence of productive enterprise ... there is no such thing.


    Keep in mind, if all the debt was somehow forgiven in its entirety by Monday ... new debt in the same amounts would be required by Wednesday to restart the precious machines.


    No politician wants to be in office when that (cleansing) event occurs. Thus, they make matters worse for the country by continuing to spend money we don’t have to prop up an economy that cannot and should not be saved. Their goal is not to repair the economy ...


    Make up your minds: either destroy the economy or repair it, you cannot do both at the same time. The real problem is Peak Oil: the cost of crude together with the cost of credit cannot be met by 'use' of the crude. The dumb Austrians believe the wasted fuel can be retrieved and that credit comes from a vacuum-cleaner bag. Forget it, the capital business needs to run its shit is gone, Baby, gone!


    People will eventually regain control of their government.


    You have to be kidding? The government is irrelevant. Nobody here on Zero Hedge would tolerate responsible government b/c the first step would be to GET RID OF THE GODDAMNED CARS.


    Are we to enter some institutional dark ages where our grandchildren and their grandchildren do not experience freedom?


    What kind of freedom? Freedom has MEANT living beyone all means. That is now obsolete. The 'entrepreneurs' and 'innovators' have proven themselves to be clever thieves. They have exhausted their capital and cannot regain any more either by dieting or gluttony: modernity is an empty sack.


    Tell me what is this freedom? Freedom from advertising? Freedom to eat non-poisonous food? Freedom to use the public streets without having to dodge automobiles? Or ... freedom to buy ... to buy more Chinese shit at Walmart? Coke or Pepsi?


    Just a lot of empty words, scoundrels wrapping themselves with the flag.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 02:00 | 3026013 TheObsoleteMan
    TheObsoleteMan's picture

    Steve, I believe you are a bit confused. It wasn't Keynesianism that was responsible for the post WW2 American boom, it was the fact that we were the only country left on the planet after the world war that had more industrial capacity after the war than before! Everyone else was in ruins. The Brits were hopelessly in debt. Besides the US, only Sweden and Switzerland were better off in 1946 than they were than in 1939. An argument could be made that the USSR was better off, but at the cost of tens of millions of it's people? I think not.

    Sat, 12/01/2012 - 02:32 | 3026047 newengland
    newengland's picture

    Steve writes like a typical blowhard indulged child.

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!