This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Total US Debt Hits $16,369,548,799,604.93; Debt Ceiling Just $63 Billion Away

Tyler Durden's picture


And so the US debt ceiling of $16.394 trillion is now just $63 billion away.

Furthermore, once Thursday's Bill auction adds another $26 billion in net debt, the ceiling will be a tiny $40 billion off, or just one week's worth of net debt issuance away, which is why the Treasury just warned the debt ceiling will be breached in a few weeks. At that point, just like in August 2011, the Treasury will have no choice but to start raiding the G-fund, and other sundry government retirement funds, until such time in February or latest March, when the debt ceiling debate, and hike, can be no longer postponed.

Most importantly, since the debt ceiling is still in place, all wishes by Timmy G and other believes in Magic Money Trees notwithstanding, this is the one true deadline to get a joint Fiscal Cliff-cum-debt ceiling deal done. Which also means that despite all hopes to the contrary, it is now a virtual certainty that the US will enter 2013 without a Fiscal deal done, and will delay until the last possible moment, when America will have to once again add $2-3, maybe more, trillion to its debt ceiling, probably taking it as high as $21 trillion, which is where it will be by the time America will be preparing to usher in the next Wall Street pawn also known in polite circles as "president."

Below is a chart of US debt/GDP under the current adnimistration:


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:04 | 3030723 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

180 dollars per US citizen....CASHFLOW BABY!!!!FUCKING A!!!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:07 | 3030735 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

Tylers you will likely need to update the post as we pass the debt ceiling later today

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:11 | 3030754 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Do Americans know more about what Honey Doo Doo and the Khardasian Sluts are up to or our ruinous level of debt?

We are so fecked up!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:12 | 3030759 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

:) hehehehe, you said Doo doo :)

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:18 | 3030780 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

63 Billion?

That's pocket lint (inside that little pocket that's inside the bigger pocket in your jeans), bitchez.


24/7/365 Government Bodega- What'chya' Need, Bitchez?
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:19 | 3030788 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"Debt Ceiling Just $63 Billion Away"

Thats 16 days!

Happy Holidays MoFo's!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:51 | 3030897 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Dick Cheney had it right - "Debt doesn't matter"...

This is a sideshow...

Carry on...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:29 | 3030986 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Obama got his campaign slogan wrong.  It should have been UPWARD!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:51 | 3031241 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

or "LEAN Forward"

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:59 | 3031339 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

we need to go ahead and approve the principle of unlimited debt-ceilingness *NOW*

otherwise, we will be unable to pay when interest on treasurys adjusts to 18%

in that case, congress would have to raise the ceiling every week or day or hour

which would be a terrible waste of time for our elected lawmakers, impeding their ability to get back to work doing the people's business


Tue, 12/04/2012 - 07:16 | 3031862 Popo
Popo's picture

Politicians are just professional spenders.  Does anyone think for a nanosecond that they're going to vote to give up the only power they have?   Please.    At least the Democrats are openly spenders.  It's the supposedly small-government, fiscally conservative Republicans that are the biggest jokes.   

Go ahead and show us whether or not you have any balls, Republicans.    

If they allow us to go over the cliff I'll vote Republican.   Otherwise, they're pathetic spineless weasels who pretend to be conservatives.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:53 | 3031354 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Debt, I can just raise the ceiling at my place too. Ceiling isn't the proper name.

How about Initial Estimate of Debt (I.E.D.)?

That goes well with other famous acronyms such as War of Mis-Direction (W.M.D.) and the European Servitude Mechanism (E.S.M.).

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:30 | 3031104 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

should i drop the ball now.....

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:16 | 3031181 caconhma
caconhma's picture

$16T or $50T, it doesn't matter anymore.

America has crossed the Rubicon a long time ago. What matters? When and under what circumstances a default/ bankruptcy will take place?


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 22:25 | 3031426 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Tantric Economics. That vinegar stroke is a long way off yet.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 02:55 | 3031765 prains
prains's picture


but the colonoscopy with a hairbrush is next

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 06:30 | 3031842 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

And to rid that financial system of its VD, the metal rod umbrella....this is going to be painful.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:09 | 3031159 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

 MDB,  I begrudgingly agree,  at this point 60 million, 60 billion, 600 billion, who cares,  it should never have exceeded 6 trillion to begin with.   never, never, fucking never.

Debt driven Capitalism is and has been the optimal system to promote exponential growth. Resource depletion, over population, environmental degradation, are just a few of the detrimental results. A version of capitalism is what every Country around the world uses to juice growth, even communist China. Silly people think they can control capital, LOL!

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on... or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:55 | 3030907 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I think it will last until December 21st. Mayan Debt Ceiling Apocolypse, bitchez!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:26 | 3031300 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Franceis supposed to be the 'safe' least from homework...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:13 | 3030955 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture


Nothing to see here, tax buffoon Tiny Timmy will just raid the federal employees "G" fund to keep on spending.  If necessary, he'll delay federal payments into the federal employee retirement system.  You see, federal employees are the Beta test site for the upcoming raid on private retirement accounts, aka 401k, etc., and etc.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:45 | 3031338 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I used to think Geithner was just corrupt, stupid and arrogant.  Now you can add submissive asswipe to the list.  That dude has a nose that's browner than my butthole.  I gotta hand to Obama, he gets high level people to fall on grenades for him better than i've ever seen. I wonder what he promises in return?  SecState to Rice? Maybe a job as Dimon's money counter for Geithner?   I'm looking forward to the day he gets turned down.  BTW, does anyone know why Obummer selected Rice to deliver the lies on Benghazi?  Because our UN ambassador had no clue what really went on and was a black female...untouchable from a political standpoint (unless you're Alan West or Herman Caine) and plausible deniability.  This administration might be better than Goebbels at managing propaganda.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:34 | 3030994 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

16 days!  It would be awfully close to the 12/20/2012 Mayan prophecy, isn't it?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 05:34 | 3031826 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

21 december 2012. although its just a calendar date and the start of a new cycle, the mayans believed the world will end in a flood. perhaps they worked out that fed liquidity and space travel have a lot in common when dealing with very large numbers.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:40 | 3031111 yogibear
yogibear's picture

You ain't seen nothing yet! 

Bernanke and the fed buying up all debt with his money from thin air and Obama spending like a drunken sailor.

Devaluing each US dollar as time goes on.

The US will pay back it's debt in worthless dollars. Any international investors in US treasuries or debt are fools.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:28 | 3031204 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Chinese are not strong military yet to initiate an American default now. Chinese are implementing a crash program building their military capabilities.

After all, the time is on their side: China’s economy is growing and American economy is becoming less and less productive and more and more fragile, unstable, and vulnerable to a collapse.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:54 | 3031245 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

"Obama spending like a drunken sailor"  No just a damn minute, I'll not tolerate you badmouthing the sailors of the US Navy.  You can apologize to all sailors, and veteran sailors, or you'll geta keelhauling you will.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 22:10 | 3031397 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

I'm more of a silver guy then gold bug, but this shit is going to get crazy either way, when the global transition to a new reserve currency begins, its going to be VERY chaotic!! Gold and Silver could be up 1000% in swings until it all levels out!! $300 an OZ silver and $12-$15,000 an OZ gold could NOT be out of the question, but realize it will be VERY chaotic, most likely involve multiple global war scenerios or major scares, major hoarding of resourses on a national level and export bans, massive swings in commodity prices, etc etc

Point being, you DONT want to buying on the way up in this deal, the clock is ticking, get fully invested in what your capable of buying right now! I like silver over gold for ONE reason only, and that is, the governments around the world are going to try to offset the panic and flight to gold, with ALL kinds of bans, purchasing limits, bans on transactions, etc etc Silver on the other hand is basically a commodity with corporate and industrial uses first, and then is also used as a monitary use, gold is vice versa and will be easier to attack! But either way, its all going to be up, up, up!


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:10 | 3030756 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

yeah... expenses and all...

but if they agree to do spending cuts in the year 2208, all will be fine and there will be more room to "MANEUVER"...
All it needs is a 500 million conference to talk about it, a 800 million PR campaign and LOT OF COOLAID!!!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:26 | 3030809 walküre
walküre's picture

It's irrelevant. Greece has THE DEAL to reduce their debt to 120% debt/GDP by 2024.

We are not anywhere near 120% yet and can shoot that much higher, then reduce it back in a matter of a decade or two or three.

Who cares? All just fucking ridiculous numbers in a fucking computer on a fucking virtual balance sheet. Has absolutely no more meaning to me and shouldn't bother anyone else either. The numbers are pure entertainment at this point.

The "cliff" is the least of their worries. Keeping up appearances a.k.a. the BIG ILLUSION is much more pressing.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 23:53 | 3031622 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

The  $16 Thrill is nothing compatred to the debt of the states and municiplaities and the unfunded pensions and social care.  Maybe anotha $ 100 Trill..or so.....


Your fucked yankees

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:38 | 3031325 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Ten of those times have occurred since 2001.

It will just continue to be raised. As long as the printing of money out of thin air can continue to kick the can further down the road, It's all BULLSHIT!!!!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:06 | 3030725 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Not high enough.
We need to get to a nice round $1,000 Trillion.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:44 | 3031228 max2205
max2205's picture

A black prezz borrowing beyond his means.... Who would have guessed

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 02:58 | 3031768 prains
prains's picture

you'll need to cut holes in your pillow case to see where you're going

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:05 | 3030727 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:05 | 3030728 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

MOAR auctions!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:06 | 3030729 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

OH well don't worry about that....I'm sure the govt can solve it by 'compromise'...AKA 'BOHICA'.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:06 | 3030731 rguptatx
rguptatx's picture

I see it as being $26 Billion away, not 64 (16.394 less 16.369)! Oh well, that's public school education for ya!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:49 | 3030888 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yeah. I don't know how he does his math.

At the rate of about 3.44 billion a day, the debt ceiling should be hit around December 7...  Geithner will start raiding the pension funds this week-end!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:56 | 3031051 Nostradamus
Nostradamus's picture

Tyler didn't explain this, but a small portion of the total public debt isn't subject to the debt limit.  The amount subject to the limit as of 11/30/2012 was $16,330.9 billion.  That's where he was getting the $63 billion from.  You can see this information here:

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:49 | 3030889 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I wuz edjacated in pulik skool and seems to me that this report sez we r rich!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:07 | 3030734 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

1 month and the accountancy tricks will be needed to pospone the joke of the year to continue into 2013

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:06 | 3030736 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

Nicely written summary. Breif and to the point.

The world is a joke

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:07 | 3030737 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

That fucking Keebler Elf cocksucker Geithner was on TV yesterday telling us what a job they have done cutting spending. I'm sure it will show up next year

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:54 | 3030909 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

What do we have to show for all that debt?

It would be ok to be 16 Trillion in debt IF we were buying something that was worth more than 16 trillion dollars in value that we could then sell, pay of the debt and pocket the cash.

But that whole idea is based on an erroneous assumption:  that the debt was for "us" in the first place.  That debt exists to make "us" poor and a few dicks very very rich.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:08 | 3030741 woggie
woggie's picture

the beast is on the gobble
and all that matters is we're all headed for it's belly

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:34 | 3030999 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



Hey, woggie:

"There's so many people who can talk and talk and talk and just say nothing..."




Tue, 12/04/2012 - 03:15 | 3031774 A Middle Child ...
A Middle Child of History's picture

Hickory dickory dock,
Out slithered Woggie from under his rock
To post anew on an article or two
The same tired and worn out schlock.

Woggie/Woggieford/Will Ling/etc., likes to post the same shit on about half a dozen other sites under multiple aliases. Some of us actually have to earn a living and do not have the luxury of that kind of free time. But I am going to hound this moron wherever he appears until he disappears.

Go slither back under your rock asshole...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:08 | 3030742 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Aw, shucks, I thought we had 'til March...I don't think $63B is going to last that long.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:37 | 3030845 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Dec 15th is another quarterly estamated payment due date as well as a due date for November payroll and withholding taxes for small businesses, so they will get a bump from that. And then again on Jan 15th for the second of those, so I would guess with the inflows and gimmicks, they can make it until March.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:11 | 3030951 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture


Well, I know it's simple-minded and all, but they should really just stop paying our politicians and contributing to the pension fund until this is fixed.  If you hire someone to do a job and they won't do it, they don't have any legit demand for payment.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:09 | 3030749 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Timmah can spend $63B in an afternoon. 

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:55 | 3030914 inevitablecollapse
inevitablecollapse's picture

you know what's crazy?  i don't think a majority of the sheeple out there realize how fucking difficult it is to spend that kind of money (at least in terms of material goods) - when you're talking about 'social programs', that shit goes fast.  fun fact:  63 billion dollars could buy you 5700 nights or so in a $20,000 / night hotel...(if my math is right, which it may not be, but i think you get the idea).

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:59 | 3030922 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Yes, the amounts are loony now.  Where does it all go?  We're propping up the US based on nothing but bs, obviously. 

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:41 | 3031221 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

It is spent at the Grove on hookers and blow.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 00:16 | 3031660 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Actually 63 billion dollars would pay for 8630 years @ $20000 / night.   Better prepay and hope your hotel survives empires changing.   

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:30 | 3030982 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

with 10 billion dollars of CapEx I can create well over 200,000 direct permanent jobs in a developing market, unless I were lazy and concentrated on a few high dollar investments in capital intensive industries

so what is the US getting for $63 billion- not one job created, just a perpetuation of the status quo.

when the US government exercised both the power of the purse and control of the regulations- they spent a 1,000,000 millions of dollars and actually created how many jobs? (Even in the most CapEx intensive US energy sector jobs cost less than $1,000,0000 each)

even the corrupt and inefficient EU Bankster apparatus can retire $20 billion of Greek debt for only $10 billion and have enough left over to grossly enrich themselves in the process (although to be fair they aren't creating any jobs with their "investment" either)

The US really is the most WASTEFUL nation on earth. 


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:26 | 3031196 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

When you put It like that Urban I am inclined to belive we (the US) are headed for some pain and discomfort, the question is when will interest rates go up?

Interest = the force multiplier

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:47 | 3031234 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The US really is the most WASTEFUL nation on earth. 

Ever.  The most wasteful ever.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:37 | 3031105 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Yeah, Well another way to look at it is that it would put up 3,150,000 folks for one night in a $200/night room. You do realize that there are 47 million on food stamps, right? No one really grasps the depth of our problems.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:20 | 3031190 perchprism
perchprism's picture



Your math is a little incorrect.  $63 Billion will buy you 3,150,000 nights in a $20K/night hotel.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:10 | 3030750 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Debt ceiling will be bumped up to $21 trillion at least....which according to my publik skrool maths tells me we presently got a $5 trillion SURPLUS! 


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:14 | 3030770 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I find it quite interesting that the debt ceiling seems to coincide with the amount of "money" created by the Federal Reserve in secret bailouts.  Interesting. Causation/Correlation cuntz!!!!  I mean bitchez.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:11 | 3030751 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Should i still go Christmas shopping or should i hold off?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:17 | 3030782 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Hold off. I've read mark downs of 75% after the holidays.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:59 | 3030926 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Sears might just auger in come early 2013.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:11 | 3030758 pods
pods's picture

Sounds bullish?


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:11 | 3030761 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

At this point in time who really cares, just more political bread and circuses to divert the attention away from the total meltdown of Global society

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:12 | 3030763 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

It is all horse manure
The GOP will cave.
The skin they are worried about is their own

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:15 | 3030771 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

I believe infinity is a perfectly reasonable number for the debt ceiling.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:26 | 3030793 cossack55
cossack55's picture

"Thats a lot of zeroes"

Kung Pow (paraphrase)

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:16 | 3030779 youngman
youngman's picture

Geitner can fudge the numbers for another 100 billion so as not to go over it...he borrowed from Social security last time I think....plays the game..

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:19 | 3030790 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

How is that different from what we usually borrow from the SSTF?  Or is it as Bruce said earler: one is dollars, the other is paper?!?!?!?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:24 | 3030804 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture problem. That payroll tax cut has been eating into any surplus the Social Security Fund may have had going for it in the past. You see math is so fucking hard for Obama and no doubt Timmy knows a little math or he would not have made the proposal to add the debt ceiling change to the Fiscal cliff deal. Tax cheats know how to do the math they just choose not to pay the man.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:21 | 3030796 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

63 billion$ Could Nancy Pelosi have enough to spend with that for a single day?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:26 | 3030808 Joe Davola
Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:26 | 3030812 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

The sky craper has many floors, with on every floor the same arguments. Tomorrow the elevator will be fixed.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:35 | 3030839 akak
akak's picture

God, do I hate sky crappers!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:06 | 3030941 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

No wonder you don't like AnAnus.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:28 | 3030818 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

'the fiscal cliff', 'fiscal cliff', 'the cliff' is mentioned at least once in every two sentences on CNBS these days.  at what point can it be construed as psyops?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:30 | 3030826 walküre
walküre's picture

Waiting for the day they have colors to express the current threat level of fiscal cliff at any given date.

When it's a level RED day, the government can't issue cheques LOL

CNN is running specials already so I'm thinking we're not that far off.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:42 | 3030847 akak
akak's picture

They would have to take the color levels into the gamma-ray region to express the appropriate threat level.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:46 | 3030878 NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR's picture

It is "psyops".  They want to terrify the sheeple so that their austerity plans look benign by comparison. 

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:31 | 3030827 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

it's only clownbux

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:46 | 3030875 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I keep telling everyone that BernaxBux & tnotes are just like Doritos.

Munch  all ya' want, becauseThey'll make more.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:32 | 3030831 walküre
walküre's picture

63 billion left

13 billion per month just to SERVE FUCKING INTEREST TO THE BANKERS

that is where your money is going, BOHNERHEADS!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:32 | 3030835 Satan
Satan's picture

At some point this shit is going to get serious.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:43 | 3030867 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



At some point...or at some print?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:39 | 3030846 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

Wait, Tylers, your assertions concerning the debt ceiling have become too shrill. It was only a short while ago that you cautioned, warned, extrapolated and/or predicted the ceiling was likely to be breached at or before election time, thus assuring that Obama would suffer election defeat and "one term" humiliation.

In the event, Obama creamed Romney and is now stockpiling political ammo such that he's likely to dodge receiving the lion's share of the blame for whatever msm tells the masses about the fiscal cliff deal or lack thereof.

Furthermore, last I checked, there's growing confidence that legislated debt ceiling limitations are unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.

Why not focus on excess defense spending and too many tax breaks for wealthy individuals and for corporations, instead? Those topics are more worthy of ZH fire and brimstone than the freakin' debt ceiling.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:52 | 3030899 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture


... cut defense immensely.  We don't need these bases/forts/ports all over the World

... flat tax, bitchez

... cut out tax breaks for corporations but also reduce corporate tax rates - it just get's passed through to the consumer anywy and the people pay it.

... eliminate public sector unions - set standard rates of pay for every govt. job

... eliminate govt. pension plans - let them contribute to their own retirements like everyone else

... eliminate govt specific healthcare plans - let them pay into a plan like everyone else.

... make all govt. employees pay flat income tax also - they need to feel the pain everone else does

... eliminate all the bullshit entitlement programs - charitible organizations can take care of the people

... set up fair import fees that level the playing field with foreign wages against our own

... shut down all the psuedo govt./private oragnizations (fed', fannie mae, etc.)

the list can go on and on and on

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:07 | 3031064 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Everyone has a plan.  Yours sucks.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 23:28 | 3031570 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, are you one of them gummint worker dronez?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 01:00 | 3031687 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Mike Tyson

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 01:00 | 3031688 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Mike Tyson

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:30 | 3030987 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

strawman du jour.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:24 | 3031097 Rothosen
Rothosen's picture

Last time I checked "Congress shall have borrow money on the credit of the United States." What is so difficult to understsnd there? Unless your proposing no limit but each and every item individually go to Congress.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:37 | 3030848 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



We don't have the value out to more than two decimal places?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:38 | 3030854 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Wake me when it gets to 50% of tax revenues to pay the interest so I can start to buy SPAM by the case (you PM hoarders will like to know that I have already seized on a price of 1 gold coin per SPAM can).  Wake me again at 75% so I can unlock my bunker, fire up my perimeter cams and check my ammo stash...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:40 | 3030860 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Can you put me on your phone tree? Thanks

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:43 | 3030866 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

Dear Neoserf,

May the odds be ever in your favor.

Look out for bow and arrow girl, I hear she's deadly.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:08 | 3030947 seek
seek's picture

I suggest you unlock the bunker and fire up the cams early. This is one party you do not want to be late to.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:40 | 3030863 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Dollar Collapse Update: Fed Buys 90% Of New U.S. Bonds, CHINA Overtaking US As Global Trader, And The Global Economy Has Done A Complete 180, Now It’s The US’ Turn To Be Weak.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:55 | 3030913 chump666
chump666's picture

"CHINA Overtaking US As Global Trader"

Stay off the drugs.  We are all going down the toilet together, China may just blow apart first.

The pain train is coming, best take it...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:07 | 3030944 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture
Global Shipbuilding Outlook – 45% of Shipyards Have No Orders


Sector Consolidation and Restructuring to Continue

 For the small shipyards in Korea, China, and Japan the painful industry restructuring that started in 2010 is expected to continue as shipyards struggle with lack of orders and tight financing. Despite very low ship prices, shipowners expect prices to fall further due to competition among yards as 45% of global shipyards have no orders to work on post-2012. This means finances of small shipyards are likely to deteriorate further and banks might be unwilling to issue refund guarantees to them, starting a negative feedback cycle.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:04 | 3031253 chump666
chump666's picture


Looks like a price collapse in China, with oil inflation sprinkled on-top.  I suspect HK, Nikkei there will be shorts lining up, even Abe's lets print to oblivion...may be just that.  I think China is melting down fast i.e crash.

If commodities collapse significantly and QEInfinity cannot boost them...


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:50 | 3030894 topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

once you jump the shark you can never jump the shark again so party on with obama ghetto economics!!!!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:53 | 3030902 chump666
chump666's picture

Obama is insane in the membrane:

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:01 | 3030932 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

At least 125 billion of that figure is not subject to the debt limit (fed financing bank, some bonds, etc). Not that the 125 B changes anything except the exact timing.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:06 | 3030943 seek
seek's picture

The debt goes up by only $5T ($16T to $21T) in four years? I had no idea Tyler was an optimist! That's the best case number (debt going up by ~5% a year..

No doubt the tax bump will help in 2013, but by 2014 the recession, tax accountants and a mobilized wealthy will erode tax income at the same time the wheels come off as the pace of stimulus increases.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:21 | 3030972 valley chick
valley chick's picture

 At that point, just like in August 2011, the Treasury will have no choice but to start raiding the G-fund, and other sundry government retirement funds, until such time in February or latest March, when the debt ceiling debate, and hike, can be no longer postponed.

Exactly...and history rhymes....the question is did they ever replenish what they took the last time?  Or is this going to be yet another case of vaporized....

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:26 | 3030979 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

And the Rothschilds smile... :o)

Afterall someone is getting interest on all this debt...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:34 | 3031002 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

The Rothschilds are not interested in money, they have all they need. They are smiling because when the bottom drops out priceless things (think art, real estate, jewelry, artifacts ...) things that have not changed ownership in generations, will suddenly be for sale. 

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 22:40 | 3031465 walküre
walküre's picture

yeah, but priced in what? how much bread can you barter for a picasso? the Rothschilds et al are sitting on a shit pile of paper that is about to become worthless.

Best wealth redistribution for all is to pull the plug on the current fractional reserve banking game. The reason it's not happening is so that they don't fall off their thrones.

The day that real assets and real talents matter and get paid accordingly is the day that we are truly free.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:31 | 3030989 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'Double`entendre, vis-a-vis 911 and the greatest Diversion Artist of all... 'Nationalizm'?

and guess who won? -- those who control the 'eyes'!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:38 | 3031016 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Let's just play beers on the wall until somebody refills the ceiling.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:06 | 3031148 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

Sixteen trillion three hundred sixty nine billion five hundred forty eight million seven hundred ninety nine thousand six hundred and four bottles of beer on the wall, sixteen trillion three hundred sixty nine billion five hundred forty eight million seven hundred ninety nine thousand six hundred and four bottles of beer!

Take one down, pass it around, sixteen trillion three hundred ninety five billion five hundred forty eight million seven hundred ninety nine thousand six hundred and three bottles of beer on the wall!

This song works different from how I remember it as a kid...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 07:24 | 3031867 negative rates
negative rates's picture

I was thinking more like 63 billion beers, the way we spend money around here it's about a billion beers a day. Since we have about 63 billion till the ceiling drops out, again, at 1 billion a day, it would only takes 63 days of singing before the SHTF and checks stop arriving. Your systen of checks it would seem, never stop arriving.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:41 | 3031027 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

So the 64 Billion Dollar Question, I know.... No inflation exists. When do we cross the Rubi., uh the abyss?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 18:53 | 3031045 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Gold at $3000 a physcial oz. What  the heck just happened here?

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:44 | 3031120 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Watch it ramp when everyone realizes the US is defaulting by paying back in US chump dollars. 



Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:03 | 3031145 negative rates
negative rates's picture

yea, I think if you are a one career wonder that has lost a job, you could be in that boat. I for one, have enough talents to use when needing money, which is not often.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:11 | 3031074 Blagio
Blagio's picture

"Over the cliff to grandmothers house we go..." Happy Holidays!

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:20 | 3031088 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

One day soon we will all be millionaires, i.e., that will be our share of the government debt.

Full disclosure and fair warning, I'm already planning to default on mine, and you'll never find where I hid the gold. That means you Timmah.



Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:27 | 3031099 yogibear
yogibear's picture

And going much higher. Neither the democrats or GOP are serious about reducing the deficit. Just more money for their supporters.

Let's see if Fitch, Moody's and S&P reflect the non-seriousness of the US politicians with regard to addressing the ever-increasing deficit. See if these credit rating agencies are as corrupt as they are made out to be.

Within the next 2 years the deficit will be over $20 trillion. Obama is all for removing deficit ceilings and going on a spending spree with the reserve currency's credit card with no limit.


Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:40 | 3031112 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

End of 2014 and it starts getting declined.

The narcissists in DC can't see past their UScentric noses.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:06 | 3031149 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I guarantee the ratings agencies will downgrade the US debt. It's just a matter of who takes the blame again this time.

When the US is spending a trillion more than we tax the agencies can no longer ignore that fact. We have a spending problem and leadership in this country is afraid to tell the truth because they know they would not get re-elected.

Ratings agencies will not ignore the truth in the math.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 20:25 | 3031193 Joe moneybags
Joe moneybags's picture

The debt ceiling is as real as the tooth fairy.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:07 | 3031260 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Solve this problem. All those intragovernment holding of debt? Null and void.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 05:20 | 3031820 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

including Fed holdings of Treasuries, Fraudie and Funny? ack Freddie and Fannie I mean.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:24 | 3031297 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Is it a ceiling or a cliff? I haven't been following the news much lately after the election.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 22:57 | 3031497 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

To be able to post here I had to take a Math Quiz.

Someone here cheated.

16,394 - 16369 = 25 Billion

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 23:26 | 3031569 Justlookatit
Justlookatit's picture

what are you saying? being a millionaire isnt cool anymore?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 01:32 | 3031706 bankerbackbacon
bankerbackbacon's picture

Its troubling to see a 100+ year financial treason by international banking terrorists go unpunished.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 04:43 | 3031806 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

Now add the unfunded liabilities that the government likes to ignore to the figure and the debt blows out , according to Gary North, to over $220 Trillion and growing at around $1 Trillion per month...mmm...and interest free ths would cost every working American $200,000 per year for 20 years, when the average income is only $50,000..Houston we have a problem.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 05:03 | 3031812 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Today's government is not liable for things to come or things past, in their mind, of course. And god forbid someone tries to take on the fiscal issues, they will be killed. No one wants to hear that the US is broke and Americans today have no clue about economics matters and finance. Truth hurts and won't get you elected.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:12 | 3031988 dojufitz
dojufitz's picture

There will be no Hyperinflation as long as the Fed buys the bonds.......but eventually it will get to a point when the the USA govt says 'Fuck it'.....all Fed notes to be replace by non debt Govt notes......the Govt doesn't need to borrow thin air currency from a zerox machine at cost plus interest.......

There may be a few murders because of this but it will be in the best interest of the country......a Statesman will always get killed...a politician never....

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 09:24 | 3032011 Yoann
Yoann's picture

i'm tired of all this bullshit

Just break the system already

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 10:11 | 3032204 Sambo
Sambo's picture

Why not get rid of the debt ceiling? TG wants to see it go anyways....

This is all such a joke! An American joke!

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 10:17 | 3032230 dojufitz
dojufitz's picture

A floating Gold price could solve it.....but due to the figures it would have to be massive....and i mean a massive one time devaluation of paper US notes against Gold at the Treasury......then the USA Govt is Solvent.....and the more they print...the higher Gold goes.....

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 03:11 | 3081808 cgagw
cgagw's picture

Your momentum will cause you to continue riding on the new board, The 360 is a great trick on the wave good cheap northface warm enough board, On this trick you need to whip the back wheel around so it is in front and then immediately whip the front wheel (which is now in back) back around to complete the 360.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!