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First Japan, Then India, Now Vietnam; China Unfriending Everyone
Yesterday we noted that India was preparing to send its Navy into the South China Sea - defending its mineral rights from China's increasingly vociferous presence. The Philippines also expressed concern. Today, it's Vietnam's turn as Reuters reports the nation is condemning China's "serious violation of sovereignty" as Chinese boats sabotaged Vietnamese State oil and gas company - PetroVietnam's operations (by severing a seismic cable). The actions stem from China's 'belief' that two Vietnamese-owned archipelagos (Spratly and Paracel Islands) are theirs. While China (who oppose unilateral oil and gas development in disputed waters) argued somewhat comically that "Chinese fishing boats were operating normally," the Vietnamese saw it as "blatant violation of Vietnamese waters," and are deploying marine police and a border force to stop foreign vessels. As one analyst noted, "It's going to lead to friction."
Via Reuters:
Vietnam condemned on Tuesday China's claims to disputed South China Sea islands as a serious violation of its sovereignty after saying it was setting up patrols to protect its fisheries and accusing Chinese boats of sabotage.
...
Claims by an increasingly powerful China over most of the South China Sea have set it directly against U.S. allies Vietnam and the Philippines, while Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also claim parts of the mineral-rich waters.
Vietnam's condemnation came a day after its state oil and gas company, Petrovietnam, accused Chinese boats of sabotaging an exploration operation by cutting a seismic cable being towed behind a Vietnamese boat.
Vietnam's Foreign Ministry spokesman condemned the cable cutting as well as some recent Chinese provincial regulations that identified the disputed Spratly and Paracel islands as Chinese, and a map that did the same thing.
"The actions of the Chinese side have seriously violated Vietnam's sovereignty over the two archipelagos," the spokesman, Luong Thanh Nghi, said in a statement.
...
Earlier, Vietnam said civilian-led patrols, backed by marine police and a border force, would be deployed from January 25 to stop foreign vessels violating fishing laws in Vietnam's waters.
A decree on the Vietnamese patrols was signed on November 29, the day Chinese media announced new rules authorizing police in the southern Chinese province of Hainan to board and seize foreign ships in the South China Sea.
"It's going to lead to friction," Carl Thayer, a Southeast Asia security expert at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said of China's new rules that take effect from January 1 on boarding ships which "illegally enter" waters it claims.
"If it begins to assert these rights and isn't challenged, over time it becomes customary, it becomes practice."
On Monday, Petrovietnam said the seismic vessel had been operating outside the Gulf of Tonkin when the cable was severed on Friday. It had earlier been surveying the Nam Con Son basin further south - an area where Indian state-run explorer Oil and Natural Gas Corp (ONGC) has a stake in a Vietnamese gas field.
...
"The blatant violation of Vietnamese waters by Chinese fishing vessels not only violates the sovereignty ... of Vietnam but also interferes in the normal operations of Vietnamese fishermen and affects the maritime activities of Petrovietnam," Dung was quoted as saying.
...
"Chinese fishing boats were operating in normal fishing activities," Hong said.
COLLISION COURSE?
...
"China opposes unilateral oil and gas development in disputed waters of the South China Sea. We hope that concerned countries respect China's position and rights, and respect efforts made through bilateral talks to resolve disputes."
Singapore, home to the world's second-busiest container port, joined the Philippines on Monday in expressing concern at the prospect of Chinese police boarding ships. The Philippines on Saturday condemned the Chinese plan as illegal.
Estimates for proven and undiscovered oil reserves in the South China Sea range as high as 213 billion barrels of oil, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said in a 2008 report. That would surpass the proven oil reserves of every country except Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, according to the BP Statistical Review.
On Monday, China's National Energy Administration said China aims to produce 15 billion cubic meters of natural gas a year from the South China Sea by 2015.
It said the sea would "form the main part" of China's offshore gas exploration plans.
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They didn't unfriend me :)
@#sexiesthunkwithbigcahonesalive
The dragon is spreading its wings.
I wouldn't be so sure.
This has however the foot prints of our very own State Department all over it. The US needs to exercise some control over China. What better way to do that than turning everyone against China one by one. It worked well against Germany which became a threat to US imperialism and hegemonial status.
The eagle is spreading his wings.
Nah... I just say is ChiComs acting like ChiComs.
ChiComs would still be pissing in their rice cookers if it weren't for our corporates going there and discovering the cheap labor pool. The rest is corruption.
We built them up and now it seems we're starting to take them down. The Yids are in control and they don't give a shit about inflation in China or what happens to China when the American and European consumer is tapped out and can no longer support the manufacturing there. The Yids can't put their banking foot print on China until they decimate the Chinese Politburo and bring in Yiddish banking.
If the Yids can't take China down, their gig is up.
"...they don't give a shit about inflation in China or what happens to China..."
I don´t care much what happens to China. They made their own bed, they can sleep in it.
"This has however the foot prints of our very own State Department all over it."
Didn't take long for the tin foil crowd to jump on this...
Ya know it may just have been an accident, yah and axident i tells ya.....
I know China has an impressive military as evidenced by.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojiXc5OfRb0
anybody got anything on Vietnam military or the phillipines?
oh they may have a navy and some airplanes too not sure never got that far....
nice video +1
Vietnam has expelled everyone including the Chinese through the millenia. I guess this is why we call them Vietnamese. That said, millions could die over this. Oh, empire....
Can someone explain to me why I fought that frigging War in vain. The Vietnamese have a short memory. Wish I could loose mine.
I hate Leaches & mosquitose, the smell of cordite and the smell of any burnt flesh.
Ugh...stop with the video...please...or at least warn me.
Walkure, proof?
Nope, it's a Oil driven pissing contest. Everyone needs an oil patch to sip from regardless of intention. Although it's appearent that the US no longer requires the Pacific for anything anymore to hold the ever shrinking well output (just noticed an article on Lybian oil stating the point of the fuel being pumped which wouldn't run Ottawa on a weekday.)
Ha ha!
- 1 to you, China!
Appears two Chinese Citizenisms didn't appreciate your humor.
At the end of the day, no one is going to do shit. It's all posturing.
You're right it is posturing, but the posturing will may lead to more posturing, and then de facto alliances and actual written alliances...
Exactly.
The tension lies in the adoption of a bilateral vs. multilateral approach to a solution.
Ironically, if it is the Chinese who are aggravating the situation- by agitating all the bilateral participants simultaneously, they are in effect advancing the case for a multilateral resolution mechanism. All of which begs the question as to who exactly is stirring the pot?
The end result is the same- JDA.
Since the US won't be a party to the JDA or a beneficiary, if they are responsible for stirring the pot, then it to draw focus and attention from elsewhere where the US has a conflict with China.
"The actions of the Chinese side have seriously violated Vietnam's SOVEREIGNTY over the two archipelagos"
"China opposes unilateral oil and gas development in DISPUTED waters"
China may start something, but if they do, it will be short-lived. Nations full of one child families do not engage in long wars, as the death of a soldier equals the end of a family line. And nations with two generations of only children get two family lines dead-ending with a single death. Even rabid nationalism cannot overcome that kind of self-interest for long. "Bring the Boys Back Home" would be the Chinese national anthem within a year of the start of hostilities.
You nailed that one TCS. That's the one reason I don't worry too much about the military ambitions of the Chinese Communists.
I recall China's blackeye the last time they had a spat with their smaller neighbor.
An Oriental with a black eye --- how can you tell?
China doesn't have the resources to take on the whole world, or even the whole world ex-Russia. They should be choosing their battles more carefully and taking on nations one at a time. Their current trajectory is to take on the whole rest of Asia, which will bring in, at the minimum, the US, UK and Australia, and they don't have nearly the ability to battle that coalition.
It is looking a bit like Germany's territorial excurions c. 1938... one little adjacent country may be easy to take, two may be possible, three including a big bear or lion is an overreach with fatal consequences.
China thinks everything is their's. They must understand what it takes to become the next superpower.
Very easily, just dump $1 trillion worth of UST's on the open market overnite and watch the US implode to ruble....anytime they feel like it. You think China really gives a fuck? They let 50 million Chinese starve to death in the 1960's and said 'Oh well!'.
Except for the fact that China needs us far more than we need them. We are their best customer. Without us buying their widgets and trinkets they have a billion hungry peasants armed with pitchforks to deal with. China is learning that the customer is always right.
lol you moron
the chinese can just consume the shit they make instead of sending it off to america
Lol moron? Have you ever been to China? 700 million are still waiting for flush toilets! They're 40 years from a robust consumer economy, like ours, LOL!
China doesnt give a shit....us americans imagine they're trying to form a 1950's style Ward and Cleaver society? Dream on.
Chinese citizenism need not frush toilets when loyalist citizenism can squat on roadside and rereive oneself on side or road. Grorious number one Chinese infrastructure ensures all citizneisms utilize roadway ditches for strong communist party crapping.
NOODLE-glorious Chinese citizenism
GUNPOWDERS-glorious Chinese citizneisms
Apples-glorious Chinese citizneisms
Rafable wrestreners and you silly frush toilets
The Chinese Communist Sharty Central Committee salutes you!
yeah! All that rubber dog shit they make they'll just keep at home. That'll learn you bitches.
Psh....5 easy steps that any ruler knows about controlling the mob.
Step 1 - Create Strawmen.
Step 2 - Put Cheese in maze
Step 3 - Wait for cheese in maze to result in crisis.
Step 4 - Blame crisis on Strawmen
Step 5 - Watch rabid mob PRAY for gummint to coerce said Strawmen
Step 6 (optional) - Kruggybear blows his load because of all the jobs created by this gummint "activity."
Works every time. A frightened population is more....pliable.
Reads like a translated stereo manual, with the original written in...
Japanese.
Yeah, China has that weapon, just as they have some nukes - but doing that dump is financial MAD, China would be destroyed in the resulting chaos, while the US would be damaged but not destroyed. They most likely know this.
Benny is a buyer. That's already a done deal with the Pentagon and State Department.
Bernanke would simply immediately buy the $1T in UST's that the Chinese dumped and problem solved. What's the functional difference if the Chinese central bank or US central bank holds that $1T?
QE under Bush - $600B, TARP - $700B, QE1&2 under Obama - $1.2T.
We had printed more money, $2.5T not including Operation Twist and QE to infinity, in the past 4 years than what we owe the Chinese.
Most Americans have no idea we are digging our own grave.
What save us is that the Europeans, Japanese and Chinese are just as stupid as we are.
If the Chinese stay focused south maybe the US. can stay out of it this time. If they look north to Taiwan, Korea, or Japan ...
The dragon has an unquenchable thirst for oil....
China and Vietnam fought as recently as the 1979. China has had border skirmishes with India as recently as the late 1980's.
China can't depend on the tired old argument of historical hegemony, and demand "respect". If China wants something, it should go ahead and try to militarily take it. China will face a steep learning curve in any military conflict with it's neighbors. Please, please, please let China stop acting like a bully, and actually try to be one....
I wouldn't be in a big hurry to fight the Chinese. Sure, they may not have the most technological advanced weapons, but what they have should be good enough. Their tremendous advantage will be sheer population numbers. Take a look at some Chosin reservoir data and plug in today's weapons. Any China opponents better have the air power and will power to burn millions of them.
In modern warfare, large numbers of troops are simply cannon fodder... the days of conquistadors getting exhausted hacking the natives and eventually becoming overwhelmed are long gone.
It would need to be a hell of a big cannon. Even limited nukes wouldn't slow down a few hundred million.
It's a classic go big or stay home situation. India may be able to go big enough, the Russians too.
Everyone else better stay home, unless big brother is standing behind them.
'A few hundred million' Chinese soldiers in the field at one time is the politburo's wet dream; very highly improbable, logistically speaking.
Who said soldiers? All they need is a small army to push a city or twos population toward the front.
In Korea they had one weapon for every three conscripts. They told the ones without weapons to pickup up what they could off the dead. A third of the conscripts didn't have shoes, even in 40 below temperatures. The ones that did have shoes had cheap sneakers that fell apart. Still, they wiped out two marine and one army division with all the wonderful equipment and logistics everyone quotes.
Basically, when the rubber hits the road, numbers matter. 120K will kill 15K. A million will kill 150K The only equalizer will be to burn them with nukes.
It pays to have a navy.
Sun Tzu just hit the crack pipe...
China isn't going to do anything. It's just a little muscle flexing and a distraction for the masses.
Well, we know the Vietnamese know how to fight.
Buncha Ho's
Come on! We all know you really didn't minh that.
Most have forgotten the 1979 "war" between China and Vietnam. A Vietnamese force out numbered 15-1 completely defeated the invading Chinese troops. I doubt China has forgotten that. In a future war, I see China allied with North Korea and Pakistan. The US would have Vietnam {imagine that} South Korea, Japan, The Philippines and Taiwan. The wild card is Russia. The best thing for Russia, would be stay out of the initial fighting, then come in late, like it did with Japan in 1945. That's allot of nuclear powers in a conflict, and I don't see how they wouldn't be deployed, especially once defeat seams inevitable for one of them. I would suspect India-Pakistan would be the first to use them. The US needs to arm Taiwan with nukes NOW.
To further your point. In 1979, the PLA went up against Vietnamese militia, and border patrol units, while the Vietnamese army stayed in Cambodia.
Any open conflict between India and Pakistan (and Bangladesh by proxy), could very quickly go nuclear. I was stationed in New Delhi in 1993, and found out only later how close India and Pakistan were to lobbing nukes at one another.
The Chinese aren't to be underestimated, but they seem to have a history of extreme hubris. India will forever be fighting to overcome corruption and institutionalized tribalism (caste system). However, the Indians will put aside tribal disputes for a Nationalistic cause.
"The US needs to arm Taiwan with nukes NOW"
Yeah, that's a great idea. We could also give nuclear weapons to the Greeks and Turks while we at it.
You may be on to something here. I'd rather give low yield tacticals to MS-13 and the Disciples.
The Mother of all Urban Renewal Projects.
Interesting that all this jockeying is taking place among members of the new Asian Trade Partnership so soon after its signing:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NK27Dj02.html
Nam con son is just one of several disputed areas. When you here that the age of oil is over, don't believe it. Petrochina surpassed Exxon-Mobil as #1 producer this year
BTW, read somewhere (not a crank source but for the life of me can't remember it) that taking lessons from the Russkies (who've supposedly hit Big Oil miles down in the earth out Siberia way... similar to that BP Macanudo find being billed as one of the deepest and largest ever, early on) that they're going Way Deep, pursuing a policy of searching WTF below where dinosaur meat and vegetable rots (fossil fuels) for abiotic oil...
Not the professor, just the messenger, curiosity...
Just sayin'....
Don't get started on abiotic oil, it will get everyone here upset. I won't even mention abiotic silver and gold. Ooops....
Don't you mean Rosneft?
Ah, I do see that Petrochina did pass Exxon earlier this year, but Rosneft passed them both after BP sold off it's TNK-BP stake...
Gulf of Tonkin II, because that first one went so well.
What?
Wasn't China backing Vietnam against the U.S. in the Vietnam war?
I guess since China won it is time to get Vietnam "under heel" as they say?
Communist countries competing for stuff don't get along any better than capitalist countries competing for stuff.
Yeah, China had military incidents with communist Vietnam as well as communist Soviet Union, and also India when it was aggressively socialist.
Guess we know what Obummer was doing over their a week or so ago. Setting up attacks on the Chinese.
It's kind of hard to keep friends when you have 1.3 Billion to feed and keep happy!
Stupid chinks - don't fuck with Vietnam.
It's well known in the energy industry that China's
oil needs willl increasingly met by themselves. In
fact I predict they will be the one of the next
Energy Exporter Superpower. The completion of
the 3rd of 8 massive new pipes from K.stan will
more than meet the local needs for gas with abundant
to liquify and export. The things printed in mainstream
is mostly outdated and way off mark. The entire
energy complex is rapidly changing due to the
new technology's for s. gas/oil. Time to get nasty.
Just last early summer, US Defense Department officials were in Ho Chi Min City at the request of the Vietnamese government. Guess what they ask the US to do? RETURN TO KAM RAHN BAY. The Philippine government wants to re-open Subic. The stage is being set.
Add in the US marines sent to northern Australia and it'll soon be time to pound some arrogant chinese ass into the ground.
Stupid fuckers think all of Asia is their property?
Think again.
China has been ... bumptuous ... in the past. Mao sent an army into North Korea to punish the Americans in 1950:
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/kw-chinter/chinter.htm
The Chinese also punished the Vietnamese during that country's invasion and conquest of Republic of Kampuchea (Cambodia) in 1979:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/prc-vietnam.htm
Both campaigns resulted in heavy losses of men and material, perhaps the Chinese are wiser and restrict the military to being threatening and to beating protestors and Tibetans.
It is possible the Chinese are engaged in a low-level war with Jihadists in Uighur regions of Xinjiang:
http://www.cfr.org/china/uighurs-chinas-xinjiang-region/p16870
American businessmen look forward to an arms-race with China as it would stifle calls to reduce US defense spending.
PRC moving too fast on their five-year plan for SE Asia and Oceana. All that they had to do was wait about two or three more years for the U.S. to go through it's own 1989 USSR collapse redux, and then their would be no real counter to their push for lebensraum. For now, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, the PI, Aussies, and soon enough Indonesia are thinking Uncle Sam has their back. Not for much longer though...
Hey AnAnon!
Don't you remember what happened when you tried bullying the Viets back in the late 70's? They'll whip your ass again! Japs, French, US, we couldn't do it. Neither could you. Now you want to take another swing?
You're gonna get fucked up tough!
luckily for faceberg users, there is a 'who defriended me app' now, so you can see who defriended you!
PRC will fucking make the entire Asia burns if all these garbage fuckers fuck with China.
US. We will make sure you fuckers die with us together if you try to fuck with us!
You probably should seek psychiatric help as quickly as possible.
Obama is too much of a coward to fuck with anyone unless they are republicans.
However, the Indians, Japanese, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Philipinos, South Koreans ...... will fuck with the huge but untested Chinese military.
US will be making a lot of money selling goodies to many new clients in Asia. Long LMT.
So very small.
There is nothing new under the sun. They are following the footsteps of the Empire of Japan, and we all know how that ended.
Like an ashtray.
The oil and gas situation in the South China Sea is a very real source of conflict. This is no mere posturing, and China is clearly trying to muscle in, while at the same time gauging U.S. reaction. What with the war du jour with Iran temporarily on hold as .gov hopes for yet another coup in Iran (because all of the previous U.S. sponsored coups in the Middle East and South America have produced such stalwart and reliable allies in these regions), China wants to measure the U.S. reaction in case things go sour for China in Iran (i.e. a blockade of the Straits or severe production disruptions in Iran as the government falls and is replaced).
You can read the writing on the wall here... continued meddling by the U.S. with China's oil supply will prompt China to lay claim to the South China Sea... yet another headache for a USN and USAF stretched very thin... watching all the canals and global chokepoints, supplying and supporting 2 divisions in Afghanistan, keeping a credible threat on Iran, along with the other 80 or so bases globally that need supplied, CAP, maintained, and so forth. Long LMT.
China is not very far sighted regarding the ongoing territorial disputes. China may get the oil but at the cost of alienating all her neighbors. ASEAN + China economic ring would likely be dead in the water of South China Sea.
Well, I think this developement is good for us. It's good that the Chinese head of state is just as stupid as ours.
Give a fork to every Chinese man an no army can stop them !
Hopefully chineses are a bunch of sissies with no gut, no valid equipment and no combat experience. So chill, China isn't even able to take Taiwan back, it's not like they'll rule the world tommorow ;-)
Hitler thought he could win too, you ain't got a chance
against a free world that loathes you
Nuke 'em while you can still win.
"unfriending"...
I fucking love you guys.