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The Most Popular Rifle in History: An Infographic

Tyler Durden's picture


We have shown the recent surges in both sales and capitalization of several far, far smaller weapons-makers in the US: Smith & Wesson and Sturm, Ruger (along with the world's seemingly inexorable demand for 'bulk ammo'), but one can only wonder whether the market cap. of Kalashnikov (the maker of the world's most popular rifle) would be greater than that of AAPL if the firm had been based in the US and gone public at inception.



Source: Rianovosti


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Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:46 | 3034045 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

If you own a gun you are a terrist.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:57 | 3034086 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

To be honest, this seems out of place for ZH. I mean I've just never seen an article like this before. Do the Tylers sense something? Do I need to ask?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:03 | 3034106 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

This is pretty run of the mill.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:08 | 3034129 Stackers
Stackers's picture

effective range: 800

ROFL. I'd love to see anyone hit anything smaller than the side of a barn past 200 yards with an AK47

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:09 | 3034140 economics9698
economics9698's picture


AK’s are sledge hammers. 


Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:16 | 3034168 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Eh. I can hit from 400 over 60%, but that is aiming without incoming fire.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:12 | 3034348 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Jeezus Hussein Christ on a banana bike with a sissy bar!

That's fucken amazing!

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:29 | 3034400 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's not amazing--it's crude and dangerous.  With a small, home-based machine shop you can do far better.  I was entertained, but I'm not exactly sure what the guy was trying to prove.  I mean, he used most of a parts set that came from some gun factory in a former Comblock country, so it isn't like he had to machine a bolt and trunions and harden those parts.  And actually making a barrel (as opposed to having an un-chambered blank)  is hard work.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:15 | 3034578 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Have kalisnakov... will travel... {or ~ defend home, as the case may be}...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:41 | 3034642 strannick
strannick's picture

What an amazing article. Innovation garage inventing, know how, and doing a thing simply for the doing, is what made America great once upon a time.

In the name of Michael Timofeevich Kalashnikov ... and Flintoid ... and vodka ... you are no longer a shit shovel, you are glorious AK for defense of Motherland!

What a riot... 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:42 | 3034651 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

& Mama cooked the breakfast with no hog...


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 00:00 | 3034691 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"What's the haps on the craps?"- BenKevin

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:54 | 3034717 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If Boris can make a ShoVEPR, he'll be legend.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:29 | 3034401 mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

Thanks for the link. Blacksmithing is a nearly lost art.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 04:49 | 3034920 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

'Dog ate my homework' won't cut it anymore.  Decent rant yesterday on CNBC:

Rick Santelli: 'Barack O-BLAME-A' Shirks Responsibility
Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:29 | 3034404 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Dude that is fucking EPIC.

Good work, Mr. Parmesan.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:41 | 3034444 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

That must be why dirt and mud don't clog them or slow them down like an M-16/AR 15, eh?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:24 | 3034600 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Here is a pic of an AK receiver and Shovel AK receiver. The latter is almost 2.5 times thicker and it feels like a rock. Shit, I tried to pound some dents out of the receiver and the hammer got dented, because in communist mAssachusetts receiver dents you!

I laughed.

I cried.

I sinned (Thou shalt not covet).

Thanks for posting thaat, Gene.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:42 | 3034645 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture


One of the best scrolls, ever!

I don't know what it's called in the abbreviated parlance of our times but I'm teary eyed from fucking laughing.


Got Bridgeport?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:32 | 3034823 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

This was funny and informative, but the application fee to be licensed as a firearms manufacturer in the democratic peoples republic of America is $3000, last time I checked.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:50 | 3034839 Der Heuschrecke...
Der Heuschrecke König's picture

No thats for is for an 09 FFL Manufacturer of Destructive Devices an 07 FFL MFGer of Firearms is 150 every three years. 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:01 | 3034847 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Isn't that only if you intend to sell?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:03 | 3034851 Der Heuschrecke...
Der Heuschrecke König's picture

Yes, aside from a C&R FFL all others are strickly for the purpose of operating a firearms business.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 05:14 | 3034933 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

What he did was completely legal and he doesn't even have to put a serial number on it.   Only one caveat.  He can never transfer ownership to anyone else with that weapon.   

Here's a breakdown on the various FFL's.  All fees are cumulative. 

TYPE: 01/02 FEE $200 Dealer

(01), Including Pawnbroker (02), in Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices (Includes: Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols, Revolvers, Gunsmith activities and National Firearms Act (NFA) Weapons)


TYPE: 06 FEE $30 

Manufacturer of Ammunition for Firearms Other Than Ammunition for Destructive Devices or Armor Piercing Ammunition


TYPE: 07 FEE $150 

Manufacturer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices


TYPE: 08 FEE $150 

Importer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices or Ammunition for Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices, or Ammunition Other Than Armor Piercing Ammunition (NOTE: Importer of handguns and rifles, see instruction #8.)


TYPE: 09 FEE $3000 

Dealer in Destructive Devices


TYPE: 10 FEE $3000 Manufacturer of Destructive Devices, Ammunition for Destructive Devices or Armor Piercing Ammunition


TYPE: 11 FEE $3000 

Importer of Destructive Devices, Ammunition for Destructive Devices or Armor Piercing Ammunition


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:29 | 3034865 Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture


Now THAT is some serious Mad Max shit.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:29 | 3034216 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Perhaps off topic but now reported via DRUDGE:  NSA is watching you, and everyone else.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:37 | 3034248 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Fuck you FBI! FBI fuck you !

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:31 | 3034457 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

US government employees aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the box. Most of the government "jobs", particularly under the Obama regime, are simply contracts awarded to minority companies in the name of "redistribution" and "fairness".

It's rather odd that most Americans are in any way, shape, or form intimidated by the turd brains that occupy most of the civilian side of the USG.

Even the military is being hollowed out by the presence of turd brains in their midst.

Don't be intimidated.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:40 | 3034646 cxl9
cxl9's picture

This is absolutely correct. Government does not attract the best or the brightest people. What it manages to accomplish it does so only because of the vast resources at its disposal, extracted at gunpoint from those under its control. Government is able to overcome its massive internal inefficiencies through, essentially, brute-force expenditure of resources. It can accomplish its goals, not because it makes sensible or economically prudent decisions, but simply because it can throw huge amounts of money at any problem. Government is sort of like a lottery winner: no genius, just some dumb guy with a lot of money (who will soon be broke).


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:02 | 3036336 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

You got it. 

It's been well known, since the 1950s at least, that centralization institutionalizes ignorance. 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:45 | 3034663 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Hey! Spooks! 

Let's have a beer and discuss how them suits are gonna fuck you too!

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:52 | 3034682 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

I've always assumed my personal emails might be monitored/recorded, and as a result I've exercised caution in what I say in my emails. I further assume the emails I send through my employer's email system are recorded forever.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 05:12 | 3034932 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

I further assume the emails I send through my employer's email system are recorded forever.


Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:33 | 3034228 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

I have a Marine buddy who took two AK rounds in the gut in Vietnam and said it was like getting hit full on by a baseball bat. He swears by them.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:05 | 3034324 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Well, it's a bigger round than the .223 AR-15's shoot but one could always move up to the M1A and shoot a .308.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:50 | 3034488 Freddie
Freddie's picture

You could also get an FAL-FN or clone of one which is also in .308 as is the AR-10.   The new KelTec .308 Bullpup is also very cool.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 21:23 | 3037814 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Went to the range Yesterday with my new Keltec RFB....awesome...takes FAL mags...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:53 | 3034500 machinegear
machinegear's picture

To continue your thought; as long as you're willing to carry around another 1.5 to 2.5 pounds of gun the .308 is a good choice. It is much more accurate. What is nice about the AK is that you can fire a thirty caliber round from a 7.5 pound package. 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:21 | 3034857 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

You're also carrying around half as much ammo... hence the whole point of the 5.56mm.  It's about putting holes in as many bad people as possible, not the size of the holes...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:13 | 3034568 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Technically, AR15/M4/M16 are designed for 5.56 NATO.  That is a different round from .223.  Same goes for 7.62 NATO vs. .308.  They are different. The NATO loads have higher pressures and velocities.

For AR15s, one should procure 5.56 mm where possible, Black Hills 77 grain OTM is probably the best ammo on the market right now.  I think that the BH 77 grain is equivalent to the MK262, but I may stand corrected on that at some point.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:29 | 3034621 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

OK i'll bite. Your talking about the difference before the ban. (US) The after ban reciever mods omitted the 3 position selector for burst and full auto function. Easily converted.

US AR's primary change was twist rate.  It's all about the twist rate.

There is no better round for an AR than a .223 (with the right twist rate).


Your welcome.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:21 | 3034815 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Amen on the twist rate. I have a .223 for varmints, with a 1 in 14" twist. Too slow for 55 grain or anything new like 63 grain, but it puts rounds touching at 100 yards with 45 grain or 40 grain projectiles.


It was designed to shoot a light bullet very fast.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:23 | 3034860 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

many SF guys I've talked to run 1-10 twist with 80gr bullets.  They swear by them.  An AR becomes a field effective rifle to 800 in that configuration.  

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:09 | 3036362 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Not at all.

The ammo spec has nothing to do with the rifle itself.  In other words, the 5.56mm and the .223 are different rounds but are generally compatible in the same rifles.

For example, if you procure a Colt Manufacturing Carbine today, say an LE6940, it is specifically designed for 5.56 NATO.  It will still shoot .223, but it's designed to handle the higher pressure, higher velocity 5.56mm round used by military and law enforcement.

The best 5.56mm cartridge, for the rifleman, is generally accepted to be the MK262 - a heavy 77 grain bullet that works with fast twists such as 1/7. The Black Hills 5.56 77 grain OTM is essentially equivalent to MK262, at least as far as I can tell.

If you're procuring .223 for your AR, instead of 5.56, you're getting less bang.  Perhaps not for your buck, but definitely less bang.


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 10:07 | 3035246 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

One would have to use a really light .308 load to drop to NATO specs.

It's backwards from the 556/223 paradigm.

Which actually makes sense to hunters who use a cartridge appropriate to the relative size of their game.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:34 | 3034421 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I prefer the AR-15.

Plus they're sexier.

The ladies love them.

Im getting wood.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:16 | 3034573 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

No doubt about it.

AR15s, particularly when equipped with ACOG optics and loaded with MK262 ammo are exponentially better than any marxist AK wielded by some islamist, proletarian, or vanguard thereof.

When it comes to killing commies, AR15s are the way to go.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 05:26 | 3034938 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

My semi-automatic scoped Sturmgewhr 90 Swiss army rifle is pretty bomb-proof too.

I can (just about;) hit the target at 350yds with (Govt. subsidized) 5.56x63 grain ammo but I haven't tried it on a longer range yet.

In Switzerland, it is $14 for 50 rounds of GP90 ammo and my mate swears it is just as good as his hand-loaded stuff.



Wed, 12/05/2012 - 07:14 | 3034977 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

See right there is the differance between the AR and the AK , in the AR you have to get the right bullets (not seel it dosent like them or laqured , blocks the chamber) but the AK will fire anything. My wife has an AR out of all the years that has misfired a lot (she does not clean it to often)  I have an AK I have never cleaned it in 4 years and it has never misfired , and yes you can easily hit a coke can at 200 yards and a fox at about 400 yards thats all i need .

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:20 | 3034184 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Good for covering fire, or for aiming at groups of enemies, not so much aimed fire after 200 yards.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:33 | 3034415 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

SAIGAs and VEPER models are far more acurate than you seem to think.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:42 | 3034446 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Handloads.  That said my Marlin 30-30 is AR-15 accurate, but with poor ballistics similar to the AK. 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:18 | 3034587 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Just for around the house.

Remmy .308 is the money maker.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 00:16 | 3034724 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

A little birdy told me this one is pretty handy (for EVERYTHING)

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:44 | 3034265 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture


effective range: 800

ROFL. I'd love to see anyone hit anything smaller than the side of a barn past 200 yards with an AK47



I figure if you see 10k Zombies headed your way, does it really matter exactly which one you're hitting at 800 yards?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:38 | 3034429 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Snipers need time to set up and can be overunn.

If you get one of these in 5.56 X 45 you can scavenge ammo from the ovewhelmed SWAT and Police teams, and National Guard if they decide not to defend the Consitution and the Citizens; if one were to choose such a path.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:51 | 3034489 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

I would bet money no one on this site (or anyone in general) could hit anything at 800 yards with an AK. I cry BS!

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:00 | 3034515 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

The bullet will eventually hit the ground. It's more of a spray and prey tactic....

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:16 | 3034584 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Lower than that, say 600.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:49 | 3034838 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

i have used the AKM and the 74.  300 yards is a long ways out with iron sights with incoming lead.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 07:18 | 3034978 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

I could hit anything at 800 yards , as long as it is the size of a car and up.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:54 | 3034294 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Wrong.  See comments below.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:16 | 3034358 dirtyfiles
dirtyfiles's picture


Trust me this riffle is very effective.Back in my young age like 1979 I was in Polish army and AK47 is like Harley Davidson in here.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:57 | 3034518 Freddie
Freddie's picture

General Jarzelski knew the Polish Army would not fire on the Polish people for the USSR and holding the country together.  I think the Egyptian army is the same way and hopefully the Egyptian people chased out Ob's & Hitlerry's Al Qeada/Mus Brohood pals out of Egypt.   Hopefully Americans will grow a pair to ditch our islamic overlord.  

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:24 | 3034383 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

55gal drum @ 200 yds 6 out of 10 consistantly...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:32 | 3034410 aerojet
aerojet's picture

But not 800.  The AK is simply not effective beyond about 300m.  You would just draw fire to your position from people with weapons that can hit at that distance.  May be okay for harassing fire, but that's about it.   

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:23 | 3034598 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

AK was meant for medium range infantry combat. Never intended for long range fire. The battle range designed for was based on World War Two infantry combat, the AK was designed for best performance at typical battle ranges, and high rate of fire.


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:04 | 3034798 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

...And the best with AK, as opposed to M1A, is that you can dig it into a mud pool and leave it there for a few months. It will still work like a clock.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 00:33 | 3034749 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Nowhere near as accurate as my AR10 but if you want a gun that will ALWAYS function.....its whats for dinner.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 08:10 | 3035023 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

I recall seeing a study sometime within the past year where it was noted that the overwhelming majority of engagements take place at a range of approximately 75 yards. If so, then it would seem that the lack of long-range accuracy of the AK really isn't that great a factor in assessing the weapon's actual utility.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 09:24 | 3035117 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Is that yards are meters?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 09:57 | 3035225 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

EFFECTIVE range in Yards/Meters or FEET?


As I stare at a Stgw 90...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:08 | 3034130 economics9698
economics9698's picture

If anyone needs an infantry rifle (cheap $100) get a Mosin Nagant 91/30, fires 7.62x54 rounds, WWII weapon.  Clip hold 5, bolt action, okay sniper rifle.  Ammo is cheap, a great buy.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:12 | 3034149 uncle_vito
uncle_vito's picture

I picked up a Chinese SKS in 7.62x39 for $400.   Also 2000 rounds of bulk ammo.   Semiautomatic rifle holds 10 rounds and has an action based on the AK.  Legal in Calif also.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:32 | 3034169 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Whatever.  I think Kalashnikov based the design off of Siminov.  Either way, it's a great deer rifle.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:35 | 3034242 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Agreed on the SKS and Mosin, the Lee Enfield is another very nice rifle that can often be found for not alot of money. The action is very smooth in comparison to the Russian gun for very little more, its an all time great bolt gun widely available in the US.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:48 | 3034468 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

How much are .303 spam-cans?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:24 | 3034608 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:12 | 3034807 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

The smle is sweet to shoot with 10 rd mag, and smooooth bolt, but the Russian ammo is cheaper.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:23 | 3034605 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

stripper clips?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 07:21 | 3034979 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

The chinese SKS are the ones you can make full auto if you have a vice and a dremmel , it takes about 1 hour from start to finish.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:18 | 3034174 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Stay away from the cheap aluminum scope mounts. They suck.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:35 | 3034243 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Christ.  For an AK you want an Ultimak or a Beryl mount.  Or a side mount if you have provision for one.  Not that I know anything about this shit.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:07 | 3034331 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

He's talkin' Mosin Nagant, but good point.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:58 | 3034307 GCT
GCT's picture

I have one myself economics.  Good rifle with a scope mounted on it.  Ammo is cheap! The only drawback is the ammo is very corrosive.  Clean her up well or she may blow up in your face.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:15 | 3034356 Honey Badger
Honey Badger's picture

I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident. I have not had very good luck with boats.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:44 | 3034453 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Buy brass shells, if possible ... 7.62 X 54 ... the steel shells expand to easily and jam in a hot rifle chamber: rapid fire.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:47 | 3034463 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

The AK's 7.62 X 39 is ok.

The Mosin Nagant's 7.62 X 54 is awesome!

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:18 | 3034175 ShortTheUS
ShortTheUS's picture

I love when the T-Dawg posts infographics like these, but, I agree, this one isn't quite as impactful.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:41 | 3034442 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Agreed.  Silly premise especially considering their manufacture has been copied in China and other places for years.  I think the article assumes all AKs would be manufactured by a single US-based company, which would never have happened, even if they were invented and originally manufactured here.

Their design genius was in how simple (cheap) and reliable they are.  Which also makes them an ideal candidate for copying their manufacture.

Even if you could somehow enforce a patent on the design it would have expired long ago.  Just within the letter of the law, offshore-manufacture of the older (off-patent) designs would still have been going on for decades at this point.  It's a design that has LONG since passed into the public domain.


Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:12 | 3034347 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

That's why we love ZH so much, all sorts of useful information; how to make money and how to protect it. BTW, AK's are inaccurate commie projectile sprayers. IMHO The AR plaltform is far better. May I suggest:


Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:08 | 3034804 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

When in Rome, use Roman guns.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:43 | 3034454 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

THX 1178 said:

"To be honest, this seems out of place for ZH. I mean I've just never seen an article like this before. Do the Tylers sense something? Do I need to ask?"

All sorts of interesting tidbits like this over the years; stay tuned.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 08:13 | 3035026 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

ZH is actually a lot like the Wall Street Journal's editorial page(s) of yore, I think.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 02:16 | 3034856 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

You haven't read Nassim Taleb's new book Antifragility yet have you???

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:14 | 3034156 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

AK are good, reliable weapons for engagement under 300m.

However, when the shit hits the fan and you have to have ONE weapon what would it be?

May I recommend the Ruger 10-22?  You laugh, but you can pack around a LOT more ammo for a 10-22 and a .22 will kill a human, it makes less noise when fired, they are small and somewhat concealable.  You can also use it to hunt if needed.  You might not kill elk with it, but small game and some deer you can.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:22 | 3034188 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Especially for urban environments.  Noise brings trouble.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:37 | 3034252 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

This is an important point.  If I were a terrist I might shoot subsonic off the porch from time to time.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:52 | 3034492 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture


Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:36 | 3034247 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

awsome for 22 caliber therapy

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:07 | 3034332 msamour
msamour's picture

With super-colibri ammo you can probably place 10 rounds into someone before they realise what is going on. You can really reach out and touch someone...

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 09:28 | 3035134 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

There's a video on YouTube making the point that a 22lr will deliver what the us army considers a lethal shot (50? foot pounds? or some such [penetrate a 3/4" pine board, iirc]) out to 400 yards, and possibly further - the people making the video just stopped there, I think. I would not like to be shot with a 22lr, I know that. Some also take the position that a 22lr is a far superior round when the object is to deliver as many hits on target as possible in a short period of time. (less [no?] recoil, etc. by the time you can bring your eagle 50 back down on target, you could have loosed 10 rounds (with practice) of 22lr on target.) I think the author was a fan also of the 32 ? 38 ?, too, for the same reason.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 09:35 | 3035157 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Oh, one other thing. I read a book some ten or 15 years ago telling the story of the Mossad hunting down and killing the terrorists who killed the Israeli (sp?) athletes at the '72(?) Olympics. Interesting book for a variety of reasons, but, in pertinent part, the agents were assigned Baretta 22's, and, the rounds actually had less gunpowder than normal so their muzzle velocity was subsonic (<750 fps?) so that they would be even quieter. The Mossad agents had no trouble killing the terrorists with such weapons.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:11 | 3034344 GoNavy
GoNavy's picture

If you're outfitting a rebel movement, the AK is the only way to go: easily trained, easy to operate, cheap, easily produced in any decent machine / tool & die shop, and you can shoot it all day long after its been caked in a muddy riverbed.


For small unit shoot n' skoot where you're going in and out, or doing a take-down, you probably want an H&K G36.  What you shoot stays shot, you can fire it coming out of the water, and with a 30 round (expandable to up to 150 round) magazine for .45 ammo, Hard to beat.  



Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:19 | 3034591 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Keep the AR and get a .22 LR pistol. Ruger 22/45 with threaded barrel and RMR optic. Something like that.  You need something for a bit of firepower and you need something to keep things quiet. Multiple tools are fine.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:28 | 3034617 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

5 weapons every American needs, Ruger 10/22, Glock 19, AR 15, Remmington 870.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 00:15 | 3034723 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Well, that's only four.  A good start, though. The fifth being the training to wield them effectively against all enemies of liberty, no matter where they may be found.

Personally, I substitued a Ruger 22/45 for the 10/22 and an HK USP for the Glock 19.  All in all, a good set of suggestions, though.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 01:05 | 3034800 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Everyone needs a 17hmr for varmints, and some kind of .223 because brass is plentiful, and various shotguns for flying game, and a large bore rifle for large game, and a good brush gun like .45-70, and concealable weapons like a 1911, but that's just my opinion.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 04:26 | 3034913 vato poco
vato poco's picture

The 10/22's actually a damn good suggestion. Have noticed that when it comes to fireams, everybody wants the big manly boomerthumpen 45-70's or the 50's or the 4-inch long Mosin bullets......but they're loud, heavy, expensive, and a pain in the ass to shoot. They're like a monster dunk in basketball: looks great, crowd goes 'oooooh!', all that.....but I'll beat your 7 awesome monster windmill jams with my 10 old man layups every time. Zap, I suspect you've been around the block a time or two.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:16 | 3034165 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Does that mean the federal government is terrorist?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:20 | 3034593 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

The turd brains of the Obama regime tend to be.  Not the whole of the Federal gov, though.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:20 | 3034183 spankthebernank
spankthebernank's picture

Did you guys hear Bob Costas' rant about guns?  Because some violent, brain addled drug and alcohol addicted football player blows he and his girlfriend away it must be time to render the general populace defenseless in the face of the coming mass oppression.  Who does Bob Costas work for?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:23 | 3034191 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Think about it, if OJ had used a gun instead of a knife he might have saved the taxpayers a lot of money.  

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:25 | 3034197 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Bob Costas works?

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:51 | 3034282 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Bob Costas works?"

Its about time we had a serious discussion about this retard (Costas) and everyone who thinks like him.

When did this global, multi-billion dollar network he works for, give him the "the script" and free air time or approve his script to launch into an editorial attack on our individual rights?

A male and female RIGHT by the way.

At what point in time did a five foot seven inch, mindless, limousine riding twerp, think he had studied this indvidual situation and issue carefully enough to arrive at the conclusion that a A FUCKING MURDERER is the example of a gun owner?

He didn't investigate all the times (daily) a gun is used to defend against rapists, robbers, muggers and MURDERERS?

Bob Costas is a fucking idiot...this fucking MURDERER (Jovan Belcher) shot his girlfriend NINE TIMES and then went and said thanks for the tryouts? His last act wasn't remorse, it was about himself.

He was a loser just like Costas.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:10 | 3034339 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Bob Costas made a name as maybe the first sportscaster adding semi-editorial comments to his work. Mostly it was sensible and harmless. The problem is that he's gotten old and lazy. And, yeah, as a little 5 foot nothing nebbish with a lot of money he'd better hope equalizers are still available or any mid size soccer mom will be able to mug him.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:23 | 3034379 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I would bet any amount of money Bob Costas has an ARMED bodyguard he pays for out of his pocket or at his disposal as a part of his contract with Global MSM...anytime, 24/7/365.

And...chances are...that bodyguard is not shorter or anywhere near as whiney & sniviling a little cretin as him.

Liberty for me but not for thee grandma is his motto.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:11 | 3034345 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Bravo..X 10

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:14 | 3034354 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

"Five foot seven inch" try four foot seven inch.

There fixed.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:14 | 3034355 spankthebernank
spankthebernank's picture

Exactly right.  Costas should be taken off the air for his open attack on the second amendment.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:14 | 3034357 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Fucking brilliant rant nmewn! Bravo.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 23:54 | 3034686 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The people on TV and who watch TV (or Hollywood's shit) are evil morons.  If you watch their brainwashing then you support The Matrix.   Sports crap like ESPN have always been among the worst.  I stopped watching the brainwashing years ago.  F TV and Bob Costas,

Belcher was a piece of sh*t like OJ.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:37 | 3034254 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I missed the douche's rant, but I did see the tv chanels that cover sports talking about it a lot.

Let me say this as a husband of a wife with mental issues, I'd rather she had a gun and knew how to use it. 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:43 | 3034455 spankthebernank
spankthebernank's picture

Not sure about your post GH, but I am laughing my ass off.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:51 | 3034487 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, she had one. They shot together at a range from time to time.

She was ambushed, apparently or didn't believe he'd do it when he pulled it out. She was out with her friends that nght (without him) which some believe started the fight/argument that went on for hours after she got home.

She just had a kid, this guy gets jealous or fucked up in the head thinking she should be home doing the Mom thing (even though her mom was there with the baby) and goes off on her.

The guys a dirt can always walk, chill, come back and say we're done, if he couldn't deal with it. Now the kid is an orphan.

Jovan was the same kind of douchebag Costas is in my opinion...only Costas doesn't have the blood of innocents on his hands...yet.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:24 | 3034201 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I'm a terrorist and a racist. Everyone is.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:39 | 3034244 GoNavy
GoNavy's picture

If you don't own a gun, you have surrendered your freedom to the whim of government officials -- and neither you, nor your children, nor your grand children, nor your great-great-great grandchildren will ever get it back -- irrespective of how corrupt that government is; irrespective of how oppressive it is.


The only way to ensure the future freedom of the republic is to ensure the citizenry is fully armed.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:56 | 3034509 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture
Free people own guns, slaves don't.
Wed, 12/05/2012 - 00:01 | 3034694 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Maybe Americans should emulate the Egyptians who are overthorwing their Islamist terroists rulers while others re-elect them through stolen elections. 

The Egyptian military will support the people.  The U.S. military has idiots like Betrayus chasing muzzie poon tang named "kelly."  The Pentagon and Joint Chiefs are f**king cowards.  Just like the Mormon who was set up to lose in a fake election.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 08:05 | 3035017 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The egyptian people are bug-eyed nuts however.  Over 90% of egytian women had forced clitoridectomies or worse done in their infancy.    And that's not the muslim aspect.   The media over there is full of pathetic victim fantasies about jews (and others) ruining muslims' lives.    Women are treated like animals in the streets.    Oh, and they produce nothing anyone wants, only produce domestically about half of the food needed to feed their basket case population, have seriously dwindled national income(tourism to the pyramids etc), little oil and gas to exploit, and they're desperate.    Good times over there eh?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 10:18 | 3035304 Freddie
Freddie's picture

They are desprate is right.  The Egyptians have a lot more courage in getting in the faces of the Mo BRoHood/Al Queada stooges who stole the election.  They were backed by Hitlerry/Huma/Barry Hussein.    Looks like they are not accepting the fake stolen election.  Meanwhile, American sheep go along with fake Mitt "losing" to the islamist.   As long as dancing with the stars is on or an NFL ball game.   America is pathetic.

The Egyptian military have far more honor than the Pentagon and Joint Chiefs.  They just want islamic poon tang outside of the base gates in Tampa(x) plus a defense manufacturer gig after they retire.   They are traitors, scum and cowards.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 08:17 | 3035028 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

Bear arms or wear chains

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:47 | 3034047 tsx500
tsx500's picture

i've got a chub the size of the Empire State Building right now

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:53 | 3034075 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

easy boy.

think ruger lcp pistol.

don't want any accidents now.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:01 | 3034099 tsx500
tsx500's picture

it's.....too late.......ahhhhhhhhhh

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:08 | 3034131 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

lol.  well i hope you've got a few unspent rounds left if the need arises.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:08 | 3034136 ACP
ACP's picture

Poor kid was just cleaning his gun and it went off.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:34 | 3034236 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

He was cleaning his gun while looking at that cute zombie T-shirt girl that I would die for.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:05 | 3034117 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



Ya ... watch that itchy 'trigger finger' ...

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:48 | 3034049 Confused
Confused's picture

I once read that these are fairly reliable no matter how dirty they get. 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:50 | 3034057 10mm
10mm's picture

You read "Truth".

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:51 | 3034065 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

You should go shoot both "modern" options.  Then, go shoot an FAL.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:02 | 3034102 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

The FN SCAR-H is a helluva battle I have heard.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:18 | 3034120 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Agree. Lighter weight.  If you were lucky enoughh to jump on the days of the $90 FAL parts kit and can lug it, I think the choice is obvious.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 22:13 | 3034351 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

An M1A is a very nice battle rifle as well . . according to what I've read.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:52 | 3034067 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Would you go into combat with a dirty weapon?  Clean your damn guns regularly.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 20:53 | 3034076 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

The "dirty" problems tend to happen DURING combat, not before.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:03 | 3034105 economics9698
economics9698's picture

So you have trigger time? 

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 21:15 | 3034161 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

That's what it told me on Wikipedia and the Discovery channel.

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