Guest Post: Thought Experiment: Why Obama Wants The Fiscal Cliff

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Submitted by Lance Roberts of Street Talk Live,

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Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:04 | 3036100 becky quick and...
becky quick and her beautiful mouth's picture

and the problem is that that 80% turns out to vote in huge numbers. we should go back to only land owners being allowed to vote.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:09 | 3036117 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

OT: WTF is with this liftathon taking place?

Did BB just fat-finger cntrl-p?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:24 | 3036149 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Don't just mention tax increases; if you're going to throw grandma off the cliff, do it more thusly with lots of thust-ly...

...to wit, there is a movement to revise the CPI again, because....and I swear on all that is holy that this is accurate and there's a serious proposal on the table....

....the current BLS  methodology OVERSTATES INFLATION.

New Inflation Gauge Would Cut Benefits, Hike Taxes : NPR

The inflation measure under consideration is called the Chained Consumer Price Index. On average, the measure shows a lower level of inflation than the more widely used Consumer Price Index.

 

The chained CPI assumes that as prices rise, consumers turn to lower-cost alternatives, reducing the amount of inflation they experience. For example, if the price of beef increases while the price of pork does not, people will buy more pork.

I have a better idea: If you're cold, just sleep outside in the snow, and you'll fall into a warm lull harkening death. That'll cut expenses. Substitute that. If you're hungry, forget substituting pork for beef or tomato paste for tomatoes, and instead of buying and eating those food subsitutions, don't. You'll really save some money that way. Screw medical coverage/treatment and driving. You don't really need to see the doctor & you can walk to wherever you're going - cha-ching, money in the bank. 

Who needs to purchase food or energy, highly volatile & highly discretionary "things" that they are, anyways, am I right?

This tells me (this being this noisy announcement via National Propaganda Radio) that they are floating this to see how much backlash there will be and to prepare the sheeples' minds, B.F. Skinner style, for more, bigger lies and bullshit.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:28 | 3036200 pemdas
pemdas's picture

Romney said, "When I'm elected, I will put Americans back to work," and 51% said, "Fuck That!!"  

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:49 | 3036296 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

And you believed him?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:21 | 3036402 economics9698
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The fiscal cliff is a public relations battle to see which party will get the blame for the recession that is happening now.

Obama does not want an agreement so he can blame Republicans for the recession.

The press will blame Republicans no matter what happens.

It’s another bull shit show, not even interesting.

If the Republicans had a pair they would tell Obama to shove it up his skinny black ass and take an early Christmas break. Meanwhile the real fall out is already happening in Europe and will reach the USA, say, September 2013 or so give or take a few months.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:37 | 3036466 economics9698
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"The negative impacts of rising taxes and sharply reduced government spending will seriously erode economic prosperity.

Lance Roberts another clueless idiot who thinks he understands economics.

Y = C + I – G + NX.

The sooner we get less government the better the economy will be.

 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 16:17 | 3036922 Snoopy the Economist
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Gov't spending is the only thing keeping this crappy economy afloat. So what is Lance's error then? Of course I agree with the theory of smaller gov't must that is only a fantasy at this point.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 16:37 | 3036992 economics9698
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The idea that government spending “helps” the economy is propaganda.  Government borrows (moving money from the left pocket to the right pocket), taxes (moving money from the left pocket to the right pocket), or prints (moving money from the left pocket to the right pocket via inflation).

This involves removing money from the private sector to the public sector where, on average, 55 cents on the dollar disappears.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:55 | 3038199 audiorbit
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Agreed. The private sector just cannot compete with central bank fiat in the age on infinite sovereign debt issues. As more money is printed, more govt bonds are purchased by the central banks, so more and more sectors of the economy will be zombified into inefficient, broken, useless government supported quasi businesses. People will wake up one day once the economy is totally fucked, but by then it will be way too late. Competing with the state will be basically impossible if not illegal.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 05:27 | 3038553 Snoopy the Economist
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OK - I think we all agree on that. I'm sure Lance understands this simple concept as well - so why do you bah Lance.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 17:03 | 3037074 marathonman
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Lance is not a clueless idiot, but he is not a typical ZeroHedge type.  He's a conservative asset advisor with an investing talk radio show on AM in Houston.  His website is streettalklive.com.  He's got good stuff, but he discounts the capacity for economic collapse that is embraced (even welcomed) here on ZeroHedge. 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:36 | 3036469 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

We're all dead by December 22 anyway, so BUCK FARACK.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:18 | 3036662 James-Morrison
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Man-up Republicans, just say,  "We were wrong about the Bush Tax cuts and we will remove them for everyone.   But to combat the impact, a Volt in every garage and an EBT card for every household!"

Stupid is as Stupid does, the rules have changed.

 

 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:00 | 3036580 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

7 down arrows at this point.  Hmm....  Caliing out Romney as a liar does not mean Obummer is a truth teller.  I thought the general ZH community understood this without allucidation.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:24 | 3036690 Flakmeister
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Logic was never a strong suit of some of the denizens here...

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 23:58 | 3038205 audiorbit
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The in-group out-group evolutionary bias has a powerful effect on all members of the species.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:52 | 3036306 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Actually, 51% said, "I don't believe you."

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:57 | 3036320 john39
john39's picture

maybe 51% of the people who bothered to vote...

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:17 | 3036390 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Well, they're the only ones that count.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:19 | 3036396 economics9698
economics9698's picture

 

NWA in the WH.

 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:26 | 3036428 caconhma
caconhma's picture

This article is POS trying to continue an old con game of Republicans vs Democrats.

I thought we have already settled this issue: the both main political Parties in America are no much different from each other  and serve as a smoke screen for imbecile-citizens.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:33 | 3036456 aheady
aheady's picture

Bingo.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:08 | 3036617 robobbob
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True, but there are still factions on both sides who haven't gotten the memo. They still insist on offering legitimate solutions to problems that don't involve enslaving the american people. their idealism will impede the all powerful central state, so at some point they, or at least TPTB created strawman caricatures, must be tarred, feathered, ridiculed, and discredited, and driven out so the people will turn their masters for help instead of seeking alternatives.

Hegalian dialectic needs opposing views to function.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 21:08 | 3037795 AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

Is not who votes that count, is who count the votes.

Stalin

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 21:54 | 3037899 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The only one that count are those who count the votes. Diebold.

....bytchez!

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:13 | 3036378 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Said, "I don't believe you, but I DO trust that blatant fraud."

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:30 | 3036208 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm for sure not an expert on American politics, but isn't it all political theather? honest question

There is no advantage at all for the Dems & the Prez in changing anything and "avoiding the fiscal cliff" that I can see, but of course they have to appear as if willing to compromise - perhaps to a face-saving cosmetic Christmas present

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:51 | 3036238 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“the path towards completing Obama's long term objectives”

Any ass-clown that would advocate for electricity rates to “skyrocket” at any time.. for reasons of social planning.. is contemptuous to American freedom and is intent on “fundamentally transforming” America into a collectivist hell.

But then, that’s only my personal and obviously unenlightened opinion.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:29 | 3036439 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Obama doesn't have long term objectives for the U.S., let's all keep in mind he is merely a puppet.  The real problem with this article is that it doesn't ask what interests are served by "going over the cliff", ie., who stands to benefit from the provisions set to automatically take place, particularly keeping in mind that one false flag invalidates the defense spending cut.  

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:37 | 3036757 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Obama = community activist = ward heeler. He knows as much about running the US government as the janitor knows about running a nuclear power plant.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 16:12 | 3036899 cornedmutton
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Interestingly enough, there probably are at least a couple of people who used to work at running a nuclear power plant that are now janitors in this economy.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:40 | 3036240 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yes. Theater of the highest order, as ordered by those highest, even if the acting truly sucks, the plot is epicly horrendous, and anyone with an IQ above 90 would demand a refund and break some shit on their way out of the theater for being cheated out of time that they could have used to do something else...like take a dump.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:45 | 3036268 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"The use of economic pain to expand governmental control of a nation is not a new concept."

Neither are false flags and wars.  War is/has been a way to control the domestic agenda.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:53 | 3036308 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Theater indeed.  Increasing INCOME taxes won't do squat.  They wealthy don't pay much INCOME tax at all.  Insn't Uncle Warren Buffets salary like $100k/year?  He gets the rest of his "income" from other means.......dividends, stocks, etc.  Taxing couples who make $250k/year is a joke.  And you have to earn $325k/year just to have the same earning power that $250k/year had when the so called Bush tax cuts were enacted.  They don't live like Uncle Warren does.  All you are doing is putting a lid on any upward mobility.  Those wealthy already have the wealth, raising the INCOME tax won't cut into that at all.

And any so called tax increase will just be another excuse to spend EVEN MOAR money!!

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:08 | 3036357 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

50,000+/-  pages of tax code is the key and it's not about fairness.

The whole system has been taken over by those who can buy it.  Nothing new here.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:16 | 3036389 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The "Bush tax cuts" expiry would dramatically increase Capital Gains and Dividend Income rates, though.  The income tax increase isn't nearly as dramatic.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:33 | 3036457 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"would dramatically increase Capital Gains and Dividend Income rates, though."

For those stupid enough to still have onshore assets, sure.  How does that affect the tens of trillions held safely offshore?

Additionally consider whether cap gains would even apply if everyone ends up eating a shit sandwich vis a vie a market drop due to "going over the cliff". 

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:29 | 3036722 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Um.  Huh?

Yeah, I realize shit is fucked up and bullshit, I was just pointing out for Scotty that the real impact of the tax-changes from failing to reach a compromise has a far bigger impact on those other tax-rates, not income tax.

He sounded misinformed on that.  We have a massive entertainment industry dedicated to misinformation, though, so it's not like it's entirely his fault.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:40 | 3036245 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

It's all BS anyway, it really doesn't measure the cost of maintaining a certain standard of living. The dilutions, adjustments and substitutions really just make it a worthless measure IMO. I think John Williams has done a good job of proving that already.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:00 | 3036255 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Please don't talk with your mouth full of iPad2 (or iPad mini).

Thank you.

 

-William Dudley

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 20:37 | 3037731 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Ah, yes but, all governments rule by two things - Fraud and Force.  If you completely unveil the fraud, that only leaves them the Force.  Hence the sheeple always opting for the Big Lie.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:12 | 3036130 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Land owners?  Well, that's only about 200.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:46 | 3036272 holdingontomypants
holdingontomypants's picture

Good timing for me as I just made my last payment on a piece of property I bought last year up in the mountains 1,000 yards from a lake and plenty of elk and deer. Now for the next phase and start my building.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 15:45 | 3036794 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Don't forget defenses. In the middle of nowhere, no one can hear you scream.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 16:15 | 3036913 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Last payment?  No property taxes?  Are you SURE that was your LAST payment?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 00:06 | 3038222 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Land owners in the USA?  There are none.  If you dont pay property tax (erhm I mean rent) what happens to that land you "own"?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:46 | 3036276 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

go back to only land owners being allowed to vote.

 

How bout just those who've paid taxes since the last election WITH an ID?

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 13:54 | 3036312 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

That would rule me out, so no.

Wed, 12/05/2012 - 14:37 | 3036480 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

And why is that a problem?

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