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Greece 'Selective Default' And Geithner's 'Selective Memory'

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Mark J. Grant, author of Out of the Box,

Late last night S&P placed Greece into “Selective Default” again. This is not the first time that Athens has been placed in the jailhouse and perhaps it seems like one more ho-hum event but perhaps not. The old bonds that were restructured were governed under Greek law but this second re-structuring is governed under British law. There may be challenges in the British courts as to the legality of “reliance” and “fairness” and it may be that the legal complaints mire the entire process in the courts for some period of time. This could then stop the next round of the Troika funding and cause all kinds of rancor in Europe. Then a “Selective Default” raises the issues, once again, of the $90 billion in Greek derivatives, the Greek bank bonds guaranteed by the country and now at the ECB, some central banks and some commercial banks where some clause may get triggered. Various clauses in repos, inter-bank lending contracts and guarantees by Athens of various corporate entities could also get triggered as the time it could take to drag through the British courts invalidates any repatriation sections of some contracts. The second and multiple times denied PSI during the first go-round may not prove to be such a slam dunk as thought by many and so I bring it to your attention.
 
In the meantime the European mandated austerity measures for Greece have driven their unemployment rate to over 26% as they replace Spain as having the highest unemployment rate on the Continent. The youth unemployment rate rose to 57% in Greece last month as I expect, any day, for Europe to outlaw the calculation of unemployment as hazardous to goals of the European Union. You may well laugh or snicker but who knows what these people could do these days. If they don’t like it; they don’t count it. If the ratings agencies opine negatively then they must be admonished and minimized. One can almost hear Rehn or Barroso invoking the rights of a united Europe to not be marginalized by these type of calculations.
 
In the meantime, because Americans hate to be left out of anything, we continue to behave like fools. The raising of the tax rate on the wealthy will operate the country for about eight days and it seems like the savants in Washington have forgotten that there are three hundred and forty-eight days left in the year. There has not been one proposal from Obama that has addressed the social policies of the nation that cannot be afforded. Secretary Geithner’s ,“We are prepared to go over the fiscal cliff,” has all of the dramatics of some bluff on World Wide Poker. The focus on redistribution of wealth is a secondary consideration when you cannot pay your bills. The debt ceiling debate is no better as all we are doing is adding more debt to a total that cannot be afforded now as the Fed grinds out more money, more Quantitative Easing and more highly questionable policies for the future of our nation. I propose that unhappy Americans unite, buy the Abaco islands from the Bahamas, they need the money, and begin our own island nation and let the 46.5 million on food stamps fend for themselves. I honestly feel that way some days as the idiocy in Washington D.C. seems to recognize no boundaries.

“America’s abundance was created not by public sacrifices to “the common good,” but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America’s industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance—and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way.”
 
                 -Ayn Rand

 

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Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:34 | 3039052 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"all potentially seeing triggers"

NOT GONNA HAPPEN in the iron-fisted globo-centrally-controlled system.  Nothing to see here...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:46 | 3039085 KidHorn
KidHorn's picture

I agree. No triggers will be allowed. Greece will never technically default.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:50 | 3039094 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Obama is turning America into a whining ghetto slum where too many people will now sit around and get even fatter and take even more food stamps, obamaphones and EBT cards from the productive folks in society! Americans should be fucking ashamed of themselves for voting this narcissistic amateur community organizer into the presidency of the United States! You will certainly reap what you sow this time!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:54 | 3039362 semperfi
semperfi's picture

His goal is to completely destroy the private sector and do govt takeovers of key companies 1-by-1 ala GM.  I'm really surprised he didn't take over Hostess and dole out ObamaHoHo's - I guess Michelle ix-nay'd that one.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:56 | 3039363 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Way to nail it drunken leprechaun, cause those poor people sure suck up your beer money. Funny, I don't see you complaining about the $16 TRILLION bankers got from the FED for free and the continued free money they get everyday

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:51 | 3039534 Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

more like 30 trillion according to levy institute as of 12/31/2011 not including further qe since then, lack of prosecutions, zirp (for investment banking at least) and so on and so forth

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:12 | 3039417 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

All i see are people fooled by the Duopoly -
I'm a firm believer that Obama is a corporatist that never met a predatory oligarch he didnt want to give the keys of the kingdom to.
But lets remember that shrub bush did his share to destroy middle class America.

And I will say Quit blaming Poor People for christ sakes - last I checked the Poor had no political representation in congress or the white house.
Just as it wasnt Poor peoples house that crashed the goddamn economy - thats been proven when the fed has bailed out the banksters for 200% of what it would have cost to pay off Every Single Mortgage in America - from the poor to the millionaires.

The scam of the Duopoly is Completely Successful when one blames the dims over the rethugs - or Vise Versa - its a scam of the duopoly and We the People are the mark - unless of course you are a .01% -
In that case build your fucking army and build your fema camps because We are coming for you sooner or later!
You can choose a high tax - I'm happy with a 91% tax on incomes over 5 million a year - as many that got that excess wealth did so by Capturing the government and thru the gov Capturing our Economy and shifting all new income into their slimy little paws.
Or WE can choose the nearest petro lamppost for you ala mussillini.
Build your Fema camps bitchez -

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:49 | 3039526 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Well said, the folks who lay all this on one (more) loser president don't understand history, math, energy or human nature 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 13:17 | 3039615 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Yeah, i got hit with the "daddy, why are we shooting moving targets, if they're too fat to run??"

 

Fuck, IDK.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:35 | 3039054 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

The 46.5 million on food stamps is a national disgrace and the true measure of the failure of our political and economic leaders.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:42 | 3039070 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Or is a cynically designed way to pay for votes with no need for jobs

 

The ultimate revolution, let the rich work for the poor

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:06 | 3039190 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

It's getting (or, has gotten) to the point where more people vote for a living than work for a living.  Interesting times ahead!  

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:57 | 3039375 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

-- Alexis de Tocqueville

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:16 | 3039432 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

“ We the Corporations of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect marketplace, establish Profits, insure workforce instability, provide for the common defense of corporate handouts, promote the general Welfare of the Wealthy, and secure the Blessings of Greed to ourselves and our subsidiaries, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of Corporations.

In Greed we Trust"

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:48 | 3039098 KidHorn
KidHorn's picture

I don't blame anyone other than those on foodstamps. The politicians and economic leaders are powerless to stop the current trends.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:21 | 3039249 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

I disagree.

The politicians and economic leaders can stop current trends but choose not to, for political reasons.

Rah, rah red versus blue.  Lets commit national suicide instead of fixing problems.

Its bullshit.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:53 | 3039128 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

Not when they are guaranteed to vote for and keep you in power. They have succeeded.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:08 | 3039199 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Exactly. All we hear about is how dismal the country's infrastructure is but yet the government pays people to stay home and sit on their asses instead of paying them to rebuild infrastructure.  But we all know deep down that the mere mention of working for their benefits will cause rioting in the streets.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:35 | 3039056 youngman
youngman's picture

I am having many days just like this....you see markets hitting highs....but so are unemployed people...you hear the Buffet saying taxes do not make a decision..then you see 180 corporations rushing their dividends this year....capital gains selling by Lucasfilms etc....I will be one of the first Plymouth Rockers if someone does buy it....

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:36 | 3039058 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They did not starve the people to pay for America’s industrialization.

The fuck they didn't.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:34 | 3039490 skipjack
skipjack's picture

You miss the difference between the government and the private sector - the government has a monopoly on "legal" force; the private sector does not.  If any private company caused anyone to die of starvation, look for the government guns behind the action.  They're there.  There are no monopolies on jobs so long as the government doesn't create the monopoly or enforce it.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:37 | 3039060 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That which cannot be sustained, won't be.  Nothing in the world will change until the fraud is prosecuted, the bad debt is cleared, and there are real consequences for bad behavior at all levels of society.  No excuses, anyone who seeks large sums of compensation had better be performing a real service or providing something of real value to society.  Unfortunately, such endeavors require real work and not bullshit paper-pushing.  And guess which part of society has captured government and the regulators? The reset can't come fast enough for some of us.

Stupid fucking sheep.

All ya'll be productive today, gotta run.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:36 | 3039305 Element
Element's picture

 

 

and there are real consequences for bad behavior at all levels of society.

 

Fine, but just remember that there's a large majority of people at the bottom who think its high time to do bad payback type stuff to the crims at the very top, quite a lot of it in fact, before they'll be interested in themselves being held to legal account. They are over the whole unjust circumstance of the "little-people" getting punished hugely for doing little inconsequential stuff, and the big-people being punished almost not ever for doing really super-damaging stuff. Like it or not, there's going to be a strong persistent demand to re-balance that grand injustice in a big way.

Thus the socialist populist politician like O'bum just loves to milk this sentiment that the rich must pay $$$, as opposed to pay for their criminality, in a prison yard, without parole. It's so tedious trying to prosecute rich mobile people with real lawyers. Much easier to pay-off the disenfranchised and make them complicit in the added taxation on the parasitic and predator class.

So then the big-crims can flourish in freedum, and the Govt simply takes its cut from them, for the non-prison-term free crooks continue to operate in the open. And the supplicants of the resulting Govt handouts allow it all to continue, due to their own 'little-crim' corruption off taking their cut of the dole.  And that's exactly what is happening ... well, for 99 weeks it works ... then you end up in a real pickle, and start to protest and say you want the crooks actually in jail now. 

Well now, your socialist Govt is not going to do that and upset its' cash-cow, so the little guy, now past 99 weeks gets crushed under the jackboot of "national socialism" and the rule-of-law farce.

Thus the politicians are playing off the biggies against the smallies, until all are besmirched with their own irresponsibility and complicity, within this degenerating fascist system of corruption and injustice. So when this system finally fails and boils-over, it's then going to be even more insoluble and bereft of all moral dignity and righteousness (for want of a better word), with which to reform and re-organise itself.

Chaos is then more likely, and massive real state violence against the people to try and suppress that. 

Is this a great system, or what?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:55 | 3039364 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So what you are saying is that "life is hard and unfair".  "Shocker", suck it the fuck up.  Only one thing is ever certain, chance will favor the prepared and responsible.  Even in chaos.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:40 | 3040402 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

I think what he is trying to say is that class warfare is being held up as "the solution" by the PTB.

That way the people versus the banks fight will once again be overlooked.

It is too dangerous to start WW3 with all those Nukes on the loose, so the new "bad guys" are going to be those in the 1%.

 

Of course the very top puppet-masters aren't technically in any "group" so as usual they will just keep laughing all the way through the reset, and class warfare, to the next financial system.

Where they will once again take their rightful place...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:39 | 3039064 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"There has not been one proposal from Obama that has addressed the social policies of the nation that cannot be afforded."

UM, FIXING THE DEBT PROBLEM IS NOT HIS GOAL - HIS GOAL IS THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA "AS-IS", "AS-FOUNDED", CUZ HE THINKS ITS EVIL, AND THAT WE'VE RAPED THE REST OF THE WORLD TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE.  HIS GOAL IS TO BRING THE U.S. "DOWN TO SIZE".  AND I WILL ADMIT, HE'S DOING A BANG-UP JOB!!! 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:43 | 3039077 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Nothing quite like a mind reading marine with a stuck caps lock key.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:57 | 3039114 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You are correct sir and I don't care what the republicans offer it won't be enough. He knows damn good and well that they won't give him what he wants ( in my view they should ) and he knows either option severly weakens  the country. Remember his goal is to fundamentaly transform America.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:04 | 3039177 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

You guys give this man waaaaaaay too much credit. Do you really think that TPTB were going to turn over the keys to any sort of radical transformation? His candidacy was contrived and created by them. It could have been taken down at any moment during the campaign in 2007/8. He has done nothing in office that deviates from the path we have been on for generations. Nothing. His healthcare plan was first proposed by Richard Nixon and is nothing but a transfer payment to big insurance, not the poor. The security state is expanding on the same trajectory. Ditto foreign policy, advancement of the MIC (same thing), destruction of civil liberties, etc etc etc. The mythology being created merely allows for the smooth pendulum swing at some point in the future. It won't be real, mind you, but people will pretend that it is.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:09 | 3039208 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I agree with you he was groomed for this role,  but I also believe that this man is evil to the core. There is nothing we know about him and nobody seems to interested in finding out who he is.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:04 | 3039399 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

They are all "evil to the core".  They are all sociopaths.  They are wired differently than you and I.  They don't have the same internal compass regarding right vs. wrong.  

And we know plenty about him.  We really do.  In fact, I would suggest we know all there is to know.  He's the same kind of machurian candidate as the man before him, and the one before him.  

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 16:13 | 3040291 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Politics has raised the sociopath to high office.  It has evolved to be the nature of the beast, so to speak.  Who else would want a job like that?  The original concept of the citizen serving in the role for a period, and then going back to his real life, has morphed into a "profession" that is worthy of contempt.  Preservation of the office and garnering whatever power the office-holder can is now the goal, not the journey.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 13:00 | 3039553 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Have to side with Krid. Please demonstrate how he is more evil than say....Dick Cheney. The reason we are SO FAR down the line at this point is utlimately all our responsibility. The evidence is right in our face. The corruption is naked, many systems are collapsing and it is literally threatening our safety and our children.   

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:54 | 3039127 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

He serves the exact same interests as the presidents before him, dating back at least as far as JFK. You are partly correct in that these interests have no interest in "America", but this mythology that this single evil man is hellbent on the destruction of America is a silly distraction meant to keep people away from the truth. Stop being a pawn.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:03 | 3039394 semperfi
semperfi's picture

You are right, its not a single man - its 90% of the Democratic party and their communist/marxist constituents & followers.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:08 | 3039410 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Sean hannity, is that you? Tool.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:07 | 3039195 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"HE THINKS ITS EVIL, AND THAT WE'VE RAPED THE REST OF THE WORLD TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE."

Not to defend The Anointed One, but we (meaning the US Government and those who control it) surely have raped the rest of the world. And our world, too:

http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/articulos/articlesFilt.asp?fiidarticulo=194

What was started in 1913 and completed in 1971, in other words, sent the world over the fiscal cliff in 2008. Trillion upon trillions of "stimulus" later, we are now getting all of 8 cents of GDP for every additional dollar of debt -- http://www.garynorth.com/public/10347.cfm -- heading to zero GDP and then economic freefall.

God help us all. No wait . . .

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:01 | 3039390 semperfi
semperfi's picture

I call Bullshit - what was started in 1913 was a war on America by the Old World - other way around DB: THE USA WAS RAPED.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 20:40 | 3041151 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Well, it was a war on America alright, but the rest of the world has felt the brunt of it, at least until now. So call it "Old World" if you like; the point is that The Creature from Jekyll Island -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k -- has laid waste to society as we know it.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 18:09 | 3040695 Goner
Goner's picture

I think some are missing the most important point in this piece.

How much are the Abaco islands going for and where can we sign up and donate to become members of the Zerohedge Micronation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation

I could use a fast track second passport

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:41 | 3039072 gould's fisker
gould's fisker's picture

"Selective" is the new normal.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:05 | 3039074 Mercury
Mercury's picture

We propose that unhappy Americans unite, buy the Abaco islands from the Bahamas, they need the money, and begin our own island nation and let the 46.5 million on food stamps fend for themselves. We honestly feel that way some days as the idiocy in Washington D.C. seems to recognize no boundaries.

 

Close...but no.  Allow me to once again trot out my proposal to form a well capitalized private equity consortium for a tender offer for Cuba. A Sovereign turnaround play basically.

An appeal to shareholders (Cuban citizens) to accept and approve new management for X number of years, a new constitution (with explicit rights against the state/management), dividend terms and a business plan - perhaps not too unlike post-war Singapore. 

The centerpiece of the business plan would be a medical services industry that would essentially be an "Offshore-Med" catering to the many aging, Obamacare-strapped yet still relatively wealthy Americans domiciled as close as a couple hundred miles away.  Cuba already has a high literacy rate and a high concentration of people with advanced medical training.

A sugar-based ethenol industry like Brazil's maybe, tourism, discretionary financial services for nervous foreigners...so many ways to win.

Hell, after a few years you might even be able to jet back (private of course) to see family and friends for the weekend every now and again.

Strip away the dregs of the Castro regime and you have a civilized country in an affluent neighborhood (FL) full of people not afraid to work and looking for a quality of life upgrade. I'm surprised Goldman hasn't tabled a plan already.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:47 | 3039087 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Better offer them gold for the islands.

Nobody wants the dollar no more,no more.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:02 | 3039163 toady
toady's picture

Not true!

In fact, now may be your last chance to unload dollars! Buy islands, drones, &AK's with dollars while you still can!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:49 | 3039099 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

First act should be declare war against Israel.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:21 | 3039441 Vigilante
Vigilante's picture

I was worrying Israel wasn't going to come up at some point...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:50 | 3039107 madcuban
madcuban's picture

The Abaco Islands are great.  Let's buy the one with the old small shipwreck that was turned into a small bar. 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:02 | 3039166 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I'm coming. I want to be Norm.

NORM!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:11 | 3039211 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

I wonder if Mexico would be interested in selling a chunk of land to form a new country?  Maybe some kind of 1,000 year lease with annual payments.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:51 | 3039117 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

"The raising of the tax rate on the wealthy will operate the country for about eight days."

That's no reason to not adjust the tax rates so the rich pay their fair share.  Time to pay up and stop whining.  But at the same time, dramatic cuts must be made in entitlements. Everybody needs to put on their big girl panties and stop bitching.  Papa John will continue to make shitty pizza even if pays $.10 per pie to pay for the Affordabale HealthCare Act requirements.  Another whiner.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:51 | 3039349 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

There is no such fucking thing as "fair share" of taxes.  Fair does not happen at the point of a gun.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:13 | 3039423 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

What does the average pizza cost?  Lets say $14

Papa Johns has 3883 restaurants in 33 countries at the end of FY11

Of those, 628 were company owned, with an average annual turnover per store of $897,000 or 64,000 PIZZA EQUIVILENT UNITS

The average turnover in the FRANCHISE stores is actually lower (and the bulk of the business)

With an aveage of 20-25 Employees per store the MINIMUM cost of implementing Obamacare (paying the fine instead of providing insurance) would be  $60,000-75,000 per store  (without adding in the costs attributable to General Corporate, Marketing and Distribution Operations (PJFS Inc) - over 2000 more employees/$6M OpEx)  - and that cost is NOT DEDUCTIBLE, and since Papa Johns paid 31% corporate taxes on 2011 earnings, that bring pre-tax income equivilent to $78,600 to $98,250 per store. 

So the minimum cost increase at each of the high turnover, company owned stores is $1.23-$1.54 per PIZZA EQUIVILENT UNIT, not your 10 cent figure

And this still negects added cost share of  the centalized and distribution arms, the fact that Papa Johns raw materials SUPPLIERS may raise their costs as a result of implementation, as well as the fact that the cost per  PIZZA EQUIVILENT UNIT at the lower volume SMALL BUSINESS OWNED FRANCHISES is higher.  If the franchise's operating margin is less than 10.2%-12.8% using even the simplified model then THE FRANCHISE WILL BE OPERATING AT A LOSS.

So one of two things is going to happen -

1) YOU ARE GOING TO PAY A FUCK-TON MORE FOR YOUR PIZZA 

2) PAPA JOHNS WILL NO LONGER OFFER TO SELL YOU PIZZA 

Obamacare was supposed to increase access to health insurance and lower costs.  The effects are exactly opposite of that as costs are driven up and incentive is provided to drop coverage or cut back hours.

http://ir.papajohns.com/annuals.cfm

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 13:59 | 3039715 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Like I said, time to stop whining, put on the big girl panties and figure it out. Obamacare will not bankrupt businesses. We run a 100 employee business and Obama care will require a slight adjustment in how we handle this, and yes it may cost us a bit more, but nothing earth-shattering.  That's it. The rest of this is Faux-News hysterical over-exaggeration. 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:53 | 3039126 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Not sure what to think about this article. Time for this old man to leave the world of high finance, economics and political science.

  • The technology Ayn Rand spoke of makes it possible for 0.9% percent of the population to feed the entire world, not just those on US food stamps.
  • The technology Ayn Rand spoke of allows JP morgan to administer the food stamps program.
  • The technology Ayn Rand spoke of allows the US MIC to be able to kill millions of people per day, with conventional weapons.
  • The technology Ayn Rand spoke of allows a crew of 10 guys to erect a McMansion anywhere in the USA in less than a month.

Yet, the technology Ayn Rand mentioned  (Turbo tax) can not make an honest treasury secretary out of Tim Geithner.

“America’s abundance was created not by public sacrifices to “the common good,” but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America’s industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance—and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way.”
 
                 -Ayn Rand

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:27 | 3039231 Democratic koolaid
Democratic koolaid's picture

technological advance has put more people out of work and more money in the pockets of the booogy man. To be fair it also has dont some great things for human kind in healthcare(standard of living) and education etc.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:30 | 3039294 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The first part, I am ironically, okay with. Because the most important job in the world (for those that have them) is the proper raising of children. Parents that have the time to raise children properly costs the tax payer less than a poorly raised one.

But that takes us to the second part... as you mentioned.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:26 | 3039455 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

America's abundance was caused by a plethora of natural resources, and the labor of slaves and working people.  Fuck yes they starved the people, whenever possible.  

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 14:23 | 3039814 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

And nevermind the genocide of the Indians, Chinese slave labour (already) and what not. 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 10:54 | 3039131 toady
toady's picture

Admittedly, I'm not one of the 'best & brightest', but I don't see the value of derivatives if they can never be triggered.

I guess they'll just make TPTB feel like they are owed something after the house of cards falls.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:00 | 3039156 Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

all this talk about redistribution is ridiculous considering the real redistribution, courtesy of the fed- the only entity that has any actual influence, is actually widening the income/wealth gap between those at the top and everyone else.  any chart will tell that much.  also, regarding food stamps, nearly 75 percent of SNAP participants are in families with children; more than one-quarter of participants are in households with seniors or people with disabilities. SNAP lifted 1.3 million children above 50 percent of the poverty line in 2010, more than any other benefit program. more than half of food stamp recipients are children (47%), elderly/disabled (17%).  Close to half of all participants are children, and over half of all nonelderly adult participants live with children. 

 

those damn leeching children

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:32 | 3039306 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Some of those food stamps are like $15 a month. A rounding error for government pensions and military equipment that they just throw on the scrap heap after a year.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:01 | 3039161 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

You're acting as if there was a connection between the price discovery of gold on Intrade.com, the SecTreas decision last week to exclude swaps from Dodd-Frank and the gangnam style swap lines opened up between the Chinese and South Korea that were just announced.  Preposterous.  Intrade has been shut down for U.S. citizens because it turned predictions into commodities and you can't trade those without a license... everybody knows that - even your local tarot card reader is a licensed commodity - no? However, there are "certain interested parties" that will receive a no action letter from the CFTC as standard procedure.  Oh, about that lack of harmonization resulting in regulatory arbitrage? We'll get back with you on that post-cliff dive landing.

By the way, is it technically a prisoner's dilemma when one prisoner has the steering wheel in their hands and the other is simply a passenger?

www.tradewithdave.com

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:09 | 3039205 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

(Picture Banzai's Van Rompuy "trainwreck" piece here)

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:03 | 3039173 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Anybody who takes Ayn Rand seriously  loses all credibility in my book.  The woman - like most theorists - had no grasp on basic physics, and how energy drives productivity.  Philosophy that still fails to grasp this relationship, and people who subscribe to such foolishness, deserve what they're getting - screwed.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:07 | 3039193 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

The raising of the tax rate on the wealthy will operate the country for about eight days and it seems like the savants in Washington have forgotten that there are three hundred and forty-eight days left in the year.

 

365 - 8 = ?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:20 | 3039246 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Very year is  a leap year by executive order by the One.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:29 | 3039289 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Deflation. Time is money, ya know.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:29 | 3039291 Democratic koolaid
Democratic koolaid's picture

Plus there are off shore bank accounts and other Countrys to work from.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:09 | 3039196 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Bailouts for all.

There will be no credit events...Ever.

We will HAARP the approching shitstorm away.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:23 | 3039256 Democratic koolaid
Democratic koolaid's picture

A jesse ventura FAN!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:21 | 3039252 Democratic koolaid
Democratic koolaid's picture

Respectfully Ayn rand had progressive ideals I will say but un-american for when she introduced them in the mid 50s. This is in terms of America being more Human then that of the bolsheviks and overt-socialism.

As someone who can understand social darwinism and the whole survival of the fittest I would think Ayn Rand being from the u.s.s.r. would not have aproved of this display.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8UbgSopD4

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:24 | 3039261 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The youth unemployment rate rose to 57%...

At least we won't see those kind of numbers come out of China which puts kids of 12 years old to work in sweatshops.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:26 | 3039277 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

They care about their kids and want them to get experience actually producing and making something.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:12 | 3039419 uno
uno's picture

cutting edge of sweatshops have moved to Cambodia and Vietnam

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:24 | 3039269 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Kinda doubt the Bahamas would want a bunch of Americans waddling in. You'd have to buy a million dollar business first. Not an affirmative action business or government contracting business, but a real business during the global slowdown.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:49 | 3039342 Eddy Vluggen
Eddy Vluggen's picture

"and let the 46.5 million on food stamps fend for themselves."

As long as you do not seek any help from the rest of the world, that'd be a deal.

Aah, yes, it "must" be the fact that you feed the hungry that all is going wrong. Food must be expensive, those lazy basterds are parasites, yes? Those TBTF-banks, they didn't cost aything. Defense-budget? Extremely low, compared to the cost of the foodstamps.

And no, we don't want progressive taxation like in the nineties; the rich got there by hard work, and government shouldn't be "stealing" their profits. The global financial crisis is built on greed, fraud and ingorance.

Giving food to an unemployed ex-banker is not "communist", but "human". Letting him die of hunger would be a waste of the investment (we paid his schooling after all), and a human without food will quickly become a criminal element. (Biological programmed, the will to live)

You complain about the unfortunate still being alive. I complain that you're wielding something more dangerous than a sword, shouting that we are rubber, and you are glue.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 11:59 | 3039377 Bahamas
Bahamas's picture

very easy to survive in the Bahamas...plenty of fish, water land and freedom...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:24 | 3039451 ableman28
ableman28's picture

I read and seldom comment but to folks not blinding by glib prejudice (Fox News, eg) here is the reality about Food Stamps. Over half of all recipients of Food Stamps are WHITE.  The remaining half are about 25% black and 20% hispanic (the rest a mix, Asian, Indian, etc).  Over half of all recipients are under the age of 18.  The average benefit is $287.....A MONTH!  Woo Hoo.  

Food Stamp enrollment rises and falls in DIRECT PROPORTION to rise or fall of un-employment.  Food Stamp enrollment is NOT A CAUSE OF UNEMPLOYMENT it is a RESULT.  The vast increase in Food Stamp recipients in the last 10 years has been a result of people losing their jobs and consequently their income goes down and they become eligible.  For sure there is long term dependency particularly in the black community and among white people in poorer parts of the rural south and Appalachia. But in terms of overall numbers its about the same for both ethnic groups and during periods of low unemployment people leave the FS program as they are able to find jobs and return to work.

Social support programs like FS are necessary to avoid inevitable social disorder that accompanies the boom/bust business cycle endemic to semi capitalist societies like the US.  It has proven difficult to manage these boom/bust cycles in part because blunting the dynamic requires methods that limits the freedom of capital to optimize return (make a buck) which few feel would be a good alternative.

If you want to find out what it was like to live in post 1990 Yugoslavia or like now in Syria then push everyone off social support programs.  The market place does not automatically respond to people desperate to feed their families by creating new jobs.  The result would be an escalation in social disorder and violence that is only entertaining in "prepper fiction novels".

Managing society is the only option to the disintegration of civilization.  Ayn Rand was a fool.  She lived in a world where the benevolent winners created good as a result of competitive greed and the losers never suffered.  The real Ayn Rand world would ultimately be populated by a few, well protected overlords, besieged by everyone else.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:33 | 3039484 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

You don't get out much, do you?  

Apparently you are under the impression that the unemployed and working poor who get food stamps are happy people? 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 13:06 | 3039498 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

sadly, since 1913 the american 'can do' was the epitome of a imperialist quasi-fascist statism[istic] government gone [ terribly wrong] wild!

our foreign policy [cfr] raped and sacked south america placating democracies with corporate despots and dictators,... all in the name of the 'boogie-man'-- meet mr. communism?

we then realized that our aggression was only natural being the new-world-order, roman empire's zeitgeist du`jour!  but, as its turned out, our, one big mistake was greed for just a few! whereas, the roman's weren't brutal dictators as history had painted them-- how else could a ?ancient?, backwards?empire have lasted approx. twelve-fifteen centuries. the roman's secret?  once sovereigns were conquered, most if not all were assimilated into the whole to proliferate and enhance their semi-democratic culture and ideologies.

their civil war didn't come until the twilight of the empire whereas ours had come in the near beginning.

the world has wised up to our unadulterated aggression in the name of 'freedom', and the horrible things we have done to our peaceful neighbors throughout the globe! always enhancing our personal wealth and never giving back, nor having the slightest of consciousness... not even a subtle queasy feeling of guilt nor a semblance of thought regarding the myriad of bridges we've burned.

the puppeteer leadership that america has installed, and backed with an iron-fist cia [ america's gestapo/ss to the nth degree] is worse than communism? it is pure-totalitarianism-- the mortal sin of mankind's oligarchy nesting in america's 500 most powerful [corporate-globalization/american politics/media-propaganda/ mic's military crusaders/, etc., etc.,..] families!

sadly, throughout the 'wired enslaved world', that's finding a pulse... thank GOD!-- has now caught onto america's message of freedom encompassing passive slavery for even their own. the ire of these known-unknown revelations have given the 99.9% of the truly american patriot, but one choice?!

we don't need a fucking president, period! it's an outdated imperialistic fallacy. times have changed. go back to the u.s. house of rep's in each state and let them choose their us senators as it was in the beginning.  no more lifetime tenure for supreme's! twenty years max,... your out!

Ps. sorry for the rant... btw;  obama's wh spent ~$1.4bn. 2012...

and spent ~ $1.3 bn 2011--- perhaps we should start counting prior years?

thankyou tyler

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 12:48 | 3039516 skipjack
skipjack's picture

"Over half of all recipients of Food Stamps are WHITE.  The remaining half are about 25% black and 20% hispanic (the rest a mix, Asian, Indian, etc).  Over half of all recipients are under the age of 18.  The average benefit is $287.....A MONTH!"

 

Gee - only 11% of the population is black, and about 16% is Hispanic, while the white population remains over 50%.  Your point is ?  It seems to me that blacks and Hispanics are disproportionally represented, as tho you think whites don't lose their jobs.  Believe me, there's a lot of poor white trash in this country too.

 

Secondly, if eating real, not over-processed sugar-food, an adult can easily eat for about $5 a day, IF you know how to cook.   It costs even less for kids.  Rice, good vegetables, 2 oz of meat per serving, oatmeal and fruit for breakfast, peanut butter sandwiches, etc etc is so much more nutritions, cheap and healthy.  Of course, you might have to actually exert some effort to put it together and chop it up for cooking, maybe a 30 minute investment of time from raw to cooked, instead of just opening a box and nuking it for 4 minutes.  But no, some jackass thinks that every American has a right to overprocessed GMO shitfood on the dime of others.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 15:12 | 3040039 Revjack36
Revjack36's picture

How about the letter going out to those who are getting unemployment extentions that states no more payments to anyone after Dec 29th O's 2012? Had a family member show me that no one will get any extentions after that day due to the "Fiscal Cliff" talk not producing anything to stop the increases. I guess come Jan 1st 2013 there is going to be millions in all states all of a sudden without any source of cash. Just in time for O's Hawaii vacation.

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