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Guest Post: Drones In America? They are Already Here...

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is one of the most important organizations we have in America today.  While most of the country lays fast asleep to the dangers of the encroaching surveillance state, the EFF is always vigilantly at work on the front lines.  In their latest article, they show that military drones are already flying all over these United States and, using information received from a FOIA lawsuit they provide important details on what is flying and where.  You may be shocked at some of their conclusions.  From the EFF:

These records, received as a result of EFF’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), come from state and local law enforcement agencies, universities and—for the first time—three branches of the U.S. military: the Air Force, Marine Corps, and DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency).

 

The records show that the Air Force has been testing out a bunch of different drone types, from the smaller, hand-launched Raven, Puma and Wasp drones designed by Aerovironment in Southern California, to the much larger Predator and Reaper drones responsible for civilian and foreign military deaths abroad. The Marine Corps is also testing drones, though it chose to redact so much of the text from its records that we still don’t know much about its programs.

 

Perhaps the scariest is the technology carried by a Reaper drone the Air Force is flying near Lincoln, Nevada and in areas of California and Utah. This drone uses “Gorgon Stare” technology, which Wikipedia defines as “a spherical array of nine cameras attached to an aerial drone . . . capable of capturing motion imagery of an entire city.” This imagery “can then be analyzed by humans or an artificial intelligence, such as the Mind’s Eye project” being developed by DARPA. If true, this technology takes surveillance to a whole new level.

 

While LIDAR can be used to create high-resolution images of the earth’s surface, it is also used in high tech police speed guns—begging the question of whether drones will soon be used for minor traffic violations.

 

However, once again, the records do not show that the FAA had any concerns about drone flights’ impact on privacy and civil liberties. This is especially problematic when drone programs like Otter Tail’s appear on first glance to be benign but later turn out to support the same problematic law enforcement uses that EFF has been increasingly concerned about.

 

It’s been over a year and a half since we first filed our FOIA request with the FAA, and we’re still waiting for more than half of the agency’s drone records. This is unacceptable.

Like with any new technology, drones can be put to good use or to evil use.  Just like nuclear power can harness energy or destroy humanity altogether, drones could do a lot of good, but the problem is that the government is clearly moving more and more towards a surveillance state so we must be extra careful.  Stay vigilant.

Full article here.

 


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Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Good use?

Evil Use?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:38 | Link to Comment The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

Oh, these anti-semites...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Evil, evil, evil motherfuckers

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:53 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Some stupid assed mother fucker deleted the post I had on Max Keiser's damn wiki site that showed that I thought of the "Crash JPM - Buy Silver" movement.  Damn it Tyler Durden, Mike Krieger, can't you recognize a real Don when you see one?

Tell that mother fucker Max Keiser to give the damn reigns up.  Don't you fuckers realize what I would do to the financial system if you fucking publsihed what I wrote?  Don't you know what would happen if you let the Rainmaker make the rain? 

WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS DROUGHT, BITCHEZ!

Mon, 12/10/2012 - 00:57 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

I think this is just the usual milking of tax dollars by the MIC.  Prove to me that a drone can invade my privacy.  I don't believe it.

If you are in a heavily populated area you are hiding in plain sight.  There is no way to distinguish your movements from background movements of the "hive".  On the other hand, if you are standing out in a barren desert or wide open field, you can be seen and recognized at long distance.

Imagine using binoculars from an airplane window.  You couldn't spy on jack.  It's a fucking joke and gigantic waste of taxes.  I'm not scared one bit.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:54 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Can't wait to shoot one down. It'll be hard not to post it to Youtube.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 07:55 | Link to Comment Confused
Confused's picture

Until Youtube starts censoring what it allows.

 

We are all Winston Smith now. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:06 | Link to Comment exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Until?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Confused
Confused's picture

Fair point.

 

So obviously no "how-to" videos on shooting down drones.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 07:04 | Link to Comment smart girl
smart girl's picture

nice use of italics - I meant it for the guy who said evil, evil, ......... And we all know the opposite of evil is Live, right?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Don't know if the intent of the gubmint is good or evil at this time.  But I am certain of which direction on the evil-o-meter the nature of the gubmint's intent in use of drones will move over time... 

Gubmints invariably rot until they are replaced.  Gubmint is a cancer, feeding on its host the citizenry, until it kills it or is excised.  Politicians the metastatic agents.  Gubmint is also analagous to cancer treatment - you only want the absolute bare minimum, no more.

Gubmint under Obama is a very aggressive form of cancer.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

With Iran parading a disabled reported U.S. Drone apparently our government views Americans in the same class as Iranians, Syrians, Libyans, Russians, or Chinese...

We are now all classified as enemies of the(ir) State.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:15 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

You are not enemies of the state you are enemies of the corptocracies that control the state. If you are a free thinker and do not submit to the will of the 1% you are a terrorist in training and need to be monitored.

The "state" has been bought and paid for, you must obey.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:50 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

thanks for the junk Cheney/Rumsfeld Corp it is a badge of hono(u)r that you have blessed me so

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:47 | Link to Comment Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

Coming Soon - Drones Will Be Able to Kill WITHOUT Human Assisatance.

It's all in this story.

Ready, Set, Drone: Feds Prepare To Unleash 30,000 Spy Drones Over America
Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Everytime I see DebtBro, I just want to turn up the jam!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4nOHdUntyM

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

They have been here for quite some time. They are going to become mainstream unless people stand up against it. It is one more step in the police state.

 

http://jimrickards.blogspot.ca/

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:24 | Link to Comment Raynja
Raynja's picture

I was watching drones flying laterals over my city in the beginning of this year. I'm sure they will tell everyone they are flying around right before they start prosecuting (assassinating) people.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:14 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

americanspirit said:

 

"Good use?

Evil Use?"

Um...right.

Government mandated yearly enemas administered by Nurse Ratched would be a "good use" of medical technology?

How about them apples?  Deal?  You first.

Jee...start thinking.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 07:36 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

The Disney Junior cable network has a cartoon program about "Special Agent Oso," who looks roughtly like a panda bear in yellow and green instead of black and white.  In that show, a surveillance drone called "Shutterbug," shaped like a ladybug, flies around looking for kids who need help, and beams the images back to headquarters, where Oso is dispatched to help them.

So stop worrying.  It's all for good.  Oso will help you.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Teaching the children that drones are our friends.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

Conditioning, bitchez!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

William"s "I have a drone" comes to mind!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - "I have a dream."

Barack Hussein Obama - "I have a drone."

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:00 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Yoda - "Begun, this drone war has."

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:50 | Link to Comment old naughty
old naughty's picture

A very faint "hummmmm".

Yoda is shaking his head, no?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:33 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Or as Martin Luther King Jr said,"guided missles in the hands of misguided men."

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"the problem is that the government is clearly moving more and more towards a surveillance state...."

That's like saying there may be an earthquake in Fukishima soon, and a hurricane on the U.S. East Coast that may cause some damage in the future.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:02 | Link to Comment chebetts
chebetts's picture

Funny, or tragic, but a 7.3 magnitude Earthquake just hit the eastern coast of Japan.....what else do you have in that magic ball of yours???

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

all of that human effort and ingenuity, all the investment and time spent to create drones to spy on people.  What a complete waste.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

not from their point of view.  when they pull they plug, the police state is ready

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:57 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

There's a Drone Caucus in DC because the companies building drones know that their .mil customers have been pretty much exploited to the max as far as future orders are concerned.  They're looking for the next big market and that is domestic law enforcement, which is always the second step for all military technology, regardless of whether it is really a good idea or not.  And no, they don't give a shit about ethics or liberty or anything, no more than the companies like L3 care about us when they sell the government those stupid-ass invasive airport body scanners that may or may not cause cancer.  To the corporate mind, it's all about the ends justifying the means--regular people exist to be exploited in whatever way they can be. 

I recall that the companies selling those awful stoplight cameras just a few years ago aren't doing so well--that whole thing pretty much died because regular people pushed back hard.  So it isn't like it is a hopeless effort to fight the drone invasion, it just takes hitting the right nerve--like explaining to the public that they're going to get more speeding tickets and other forms of automated harassment will be devised, for example.  Or more sensationally, like explaining that drones will be watching them at church, or while having sex or even while they're taking a shit. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:30 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

It's simple, either their R&D and manufacturing programs continue to expand or their stocks will collapse, so you just keep pretending you're protecting everyone from baddies, and thus keep sucking the life out of public finances, in order to save your stock price and bonus. It's the exact same reason why your police are decked out like Darth Vader, someone need to prop their production and stock, and bought off politicians to argue that such stupidity is necessary.

There was a time in earlier centuries when Corporations were created for a purpose, fullfilled their purpose, and then were disbanded simpy to stop that sort of waste and corruption from taking place.

It's the same insane logic for why the USSA built a 27,000 standing nuke arsenal by 1967, and still has 4 major air forces; USAF, USN Aviation, USMC Attack Jets, and Air National Guard.  That's what happens when no one wants to stop making what's no longer needed.

Fortunately the Chinese only do it with unoccupied cities ... thus far.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:10 | Link to Comment Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Welcome to your future...

PS Add a shortwave radio to the usual prep items.....

/John Connor

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

shortwave....good idea

how about a neon flagpole too?

nothing like beaming out a nice signal someone can triangulate on though

 

 

want a good prep item?

bubblewrap

lotsa bubblewrap

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:38 | Link to Comment viahj
viahj's picture

you could always just lay on the ground with a paper bag over your head, not that it would help.

i have a shortwave receiver in my preps

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's a little late for vigilance you stupid ass. They are already here. They are going to put them everywhere. I do not see anything in the way of their publicly stated goal................

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:53 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

"Hacked" drone kills Ron Paul and three hundred fifty six others during freedom rally at local park. 97 others severly wounded. No one has claimed responsibility for this attack but it is surely the work of those pesky fucking (insert brown people of choice here).

 

If you are not worried you are terminally naive.........

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

First of all, who goes to rallies? 

 

Second, not even the deadliest drones in research carry enough ammo to kill 350 people. The types of drones deployed in the states will be small, fast, and surveillance based. They want to track us not remotely bomb us, they have plenty of armed thugs to do the dirty work.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

You are running on assumptions.

Check your reality gauge.

It IS empty.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They can easily carry a device as large as the one used in the Bali night club bombing in 2002.  Modern plutonium pits are not large and they're plentiful.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment earnulf
earnulf's picture

There are still folks who assemble peacefully.

Second, doesn't take much sarin to eliminate a WHOLE LOT MORE than 350 people.    Drones can also be used for spraying whatever over a populated area, a.k.a. outbreak.

Read a little Sci-Fi and you quickly understand that TSHTF in more ways than we can imagine.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Actually, blame ANONYMOUS.

 

No, really, that's the plot line of Black Ops 2. ($1 bil sales so far).

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:11 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Drone versus Anti-Drone. Come soon to a theater/road/home near you.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:43 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Krieger is good people.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment csmith
csmith's picture

"Stay vigilant."

 

Why? WTF can we do about a drone at 10K feet that can see in our window anyway?

Give it the finger?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Naw. Just be sure your O 2012 sticker is visible.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Wear a really large brim hat and never look up!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Well, if you've got a Hawk Missle battery at your command ...

Or start applying American ingenutiy to the problem... it isn't really about the doing part, more about the finding it in the sky part. Then again, it has to take off and land somewhere, and when it does it is close to the ground ....

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:03 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

You wouldn't be a fellow HAWKer, would you? I was 5921 and 5926, oh, another lifetime ago. Man, we had a blast. Our motto: If it flies, it dies. lol

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:53 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Sorry. Aviation fuel pumper here. We did have two Stinger guys assigned to us, the division commander's helicopter never got their IFF right, so they liked to shoot it down. lol

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:38 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

lol

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 07:45 | Link to Comment beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

csmith, 

 

Drones are made, flown and maintained by people.

 

People just happen to be made of meat.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

It's all just a by product of the police state formula, that 9-11 ushered in!!

Dept of Homeland Security, TSA, drones, Patriot Act I & II, Gitmo, and god knows what else!! The problem with all this is, the government and the police state assume everyone is a criminal that just needs to caught doing something, NOT everyone is innocent until proven guilty!!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And no poltician will ever resist the temptation to impliment the most robust defence known (or unknown) to man if for no other reason that they do not want to be shown lacking in the defence of their constituancy.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

Their constituancy...you are refering to Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex, right?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

No, I'm talking about the fearful voting public. Remember how Bush was attacked for not adequately preventing 9-11? How the patriot act came to be? Politicians can defend just about anything except doing nothing and the more impossible the implied  threat, the more extreme the reaction, even if it means outlawing nail clippers. Of course it never hurts if you can butter your buddy's bread along the way.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:59 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

All the more reason to expose 9/11 to the wider public for the fraud that it is.

 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:36 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

politicians work for somebody just not YOU. make sure not to forget who to really look for, the guy in the (red or blue) tie is a paid employee, much like the walmart greeter but with an expense account.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:38 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

We're ALL Perps now. And so long as we live, we will remain perps.

And the sub-human game is kept alive by ever-more beer and TV.

Most people don't really want to be human. They want to be pampered pets.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:47 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

as long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.  right?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Guys a convicted felon, can;t own guns. Time for jail. Don't to the crime if you can't do the time. And keep your mouth shut smart asss.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Anyone can own a gun.

Just do not allow yourself to be caught, again.

Research Australia's crime rate after all firearms were confiscated.

Who has and uses the weapons...? 

CRIMINALS, and lots of them.

 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I have seen two stories in as many days in which probable cause was triggered by a distrust of the government or a dislike for Obama, based on anonymous tips, which then led to a prosecutable offense. I'm sure there are more cases such as this, and certain that this will be the M.O. of the justice department in the future..........

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:43 | Link to Comment overbet
overbet's picture

ANONYMOUS = SURVEILLANCE

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Don't to the crime if you can't do the time.

The Law is an Idol, worshiped and corrupt.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:57 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Our laws are set up to protect criminals.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:16 | Link to Comment Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

"...to protect well-connected white-collar criminals."

 

Fixed it for you.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:00 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The law is an ass... built to carry a heavy load.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

."As long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about."  <-- I can't count the number of times I've seen that lately in popular culture. Let's test the assertion by seeing how it works at, say, a major international airport.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Ask a cop for his name and badge number. When he invariably gets all pissy, remind him, "As long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about." This will reassure him and make your meeting much more pleasant.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

I once asked a local police officer for an opinion on whether he preferred the Crown Vic to the Chevy Caprice. He got indignant, said that there's no comparison, and that he had calls to go on.

 

He never actually gave me an answer.

 

He was making the rounds at a public swimming pool at the time.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:41 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

at a public swimming pool?!

Reminds me of a recent visit to a DC titty bar.  One of DC's finest entered, in uniform, took his time walking through the joint conducting, you know, an inspection....

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Tax dollars at work.

 

That SOB probably gets free lap dances too.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:26 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Tell him you want to look at everything in his wallet. Or you want to wander around through his house. After all if he hasn't done anything wrong, he has nothing to hide. 

Privacy is not about wrongdoing.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:49 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Ask him if he is wearing his wife's pink thong!!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

When the SHTF and the government decides that they don't like the church they see you going to and then they decide to pick you up to have a little talk about it....you see where this can go?  Can you say FEMA camp?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:05 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

TPTB love (most) religion - it's another tool of control

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:43 | Link to Comment DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

"as long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.  right?"

Trouble with that is, you never know the actual definition of "wrong".

"Wrong" is whatever they say it is, whenever they say it.

 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:46 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Considering how many laws there are, we're all guilty of doing something wrong/illegal. It makes their job easier if they know we're guilty of something.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Depends on how They define "doing nothing wrong".

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:05 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Yes, indeed, and it's 'They' who get to define it, not us.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:20 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I think jomama is being sarcastic....... if not i pity the fool.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 If the moronic douchbags that build and buy these this flying parasites, put as much effort into looking outward as they do into spying on every inch of Earth, they would have already found another planet to pillage...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

The nice thing about surveillance is that it works both ways. 

Did I say that?  I don't know what I'm talking about.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Yes, but it is still an unequal relationship. The police for example, have arrest powers. How many time have you heard of someone being arrested and after sitting in jail for a couple days the charges were dropped? 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Yen Cross,

 

Would not that disprove their facade of authoritative reality.

 

OOoohhh Nooo Mr. BiLLLL !!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Well the gazillions spent on drones has sure put the kibosh on suicide bombers in Afghanistan.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:07 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

You want to really put the kibosh on suicide bombers in Afghanistan?

Pull out ISAF.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

<-----drones are to protect our freedom

<-----drones are to spy on the populace

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

How can you protect freedom without watching everybody ever second?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

That wasn't a comment, it was an IQ test.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:20 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Only through the monopoly right to initiate force, can we protect you from those who might choose to initiate force against you.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:50 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

to protect our freedom

And what freedoms might those be? Everything we do is controlled by the overseers and all deviations are punished. 

Americans wouldn't know freedom if it hit them in the head. And if they did, they'd run from it in horror.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:15 | Link to Comment edifice
edifice's picture

Freedom implies responsibility which, unfortunately, has been bred out of most of the population.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

It's O.K ,soon the drones cameras won't be able to see through the chemtrails they are getting so thick these days....

Or maybe the chem-jets are drones too...

I have not seen the sun for a long time now....

How about you...???

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

It seems the Police State is perfecting all it's cutting edge control devices for future use on the US population. These drones would be of immense use in any future public unrest. The US public could become uneasy under a number of possible scenarios. A deep depression with a currnecy crisis. A real mass casualty terror attack on US soil, this is a real possibility given the number of enemies the US has created with it's wars and drone bombing campaigns around the world.

My best guess is that the Power That Be are preparing to defend the elites and the police state forces against civic unrest associated with a financial collapse of epic proportions. We who read ZH know the potential for a currency crisis, we know the government is broke, we know money printing is all that keeps the USA afloat.

The elite knows better than us what could happen. They plan on being locked and loaded. I bet any Americas who did get out of line in an economic depression and currency crisis would be squashed like bugs! Just my guess, they aren't builiding these drones because they like to fly model planes. The local police across the USA have been armed for a major war. This points to a fearful elite wishing to have maximum forces to call upon for protection should the economy collapse.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

I just hope they do a better job of monitoring the intraday action in precious metals. That just reeks of Al Qaeda.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The constant "wars" in the middle east are the perfect proving ground in which to develop that technology.....

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

<Vote: Proud/glad to have the goons come for me, hopefully first

<Vote: Frightened that the goons will come for me

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Since everything is going 'remote control,' I assume that instead of coming for us when they view an infraction, they will simply turn off our bank account, cards and drivers license.

Then we can all stay home in a state of perfect freedom. Or we can turn ourselves in to once again be rehabilitated back into the system.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I'm sure you saw this.......

 


Verizon patents DVR that tracks your actions

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

...rehabilitated back into the system...  thoughts of Soylent Green

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:24 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
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After all, China rehabilitated its last emperor into a gardener.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:53 | Link to Comment NeedtoSecede
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Doc Sandi, that is scary as hell but your vision for our future seems eerily possible.

Give me the Hellfire Missiles for $800 Alex... Just kill me quick and get it over with.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment GottaBKiddn
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Regarless how you vote, they are coming for you. They truly believe that their well-being depends on you being eliminated. You are their Agenda.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

The ones controlling the damn joystick are the problem.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:48 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

And they are kept in tight units, they are told swelling tales of loyalty, they watch a never-ending stream of TV shows worshiping them, and they are taken to political events where "important people" praise them in ever-grander ways.

The thought that they could possibly be doing anything that wasn't magically righteous is beyond them.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

Yeah, like The Last Starfighter train them on video games and then give 'em a job!

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

I, for one, welcome our heavenly overlords in their vigilant quest to keep America safe.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment zerozulu
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I feel like a very wise leader some 40 years ago said, "I have a drone". some thing similar like this but not sure.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:07 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I seem to remember some long distance shooting involved with his story as well.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Lots of surveillance in that case as well...

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

"Like with any new technology, drones can be put to good use or to evil use."

Right. How 'bout we pay some attention to who owns and operates these drones (and more specifically, who uses them towards very specific imperial aims), and then we'll have a better idea of exactly whom the technology benefits.

This idea that technology is neutral is the biggest myth the world has ever seen.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

 

 

"This idea that technology is neutral is the biggest myth the world has ever seen."

Do you attribute negative intention to a rock?  A spear?  A drone is just another tool.  Our interest should be on the values and beliefs of the controllers. Domestic drone surveillance was not a plank in the election.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Ginsengbull
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Evil is not a quality that an inanimate object can possess.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 00:25 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
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A rock has no intention, as far as I can tell. But we are not talking about rocks.

I will say it in another way, since you seem to be a bit dense: technology is NOT neutral. The owners decide how it is to be used.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 01:48 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

I'm still waiting for my rifle to hop off the rack and start shooting..  until then, it looks pretty fucking neutral to me. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:10 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Then you are not paying attention UGrev. I thought you were were one of of the smarter folk here, but maybe I was mistaken...

Ask yourself: who benefits from advanced technologies of every sort?

Do you think I-Pads are an advancement of the human race?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:55 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

I don't think you think what you think you're talking about is really what you think it is.  If you give me a gun which is obviously a tool that CAN cause harm, it's power is not in the fact that it exists. It's power is in the fact that an intelligent life form can actively participate in employing that power.  

You're trying to equate intention of use with the actual existence of a tech. While there are tech's that are OBVIOUSLY designed for bad things, ultimately, it's the operator that actualizes that effect. The mere creation of such a thing is just that.. a creation. Unless used or threatened to be used, it does nothing. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:34 | Link to Comment Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

If your next door neighbor builds a machine the sole purpose of which, and the sole possible use of which, is to bind your wife down to the ground and then mechanically rape her until her pussy is a bloody pulp, then I would assume that you would be benign about the existence of such a machiine, because it is an inanimate object...just a creation that maybe never will be used.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:56 | Link to Comment Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

To play devils advocate. What if i told you it could be repurposed as a Juicer.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 05:49 | Link to Comment Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

I'm with the lady on this one.Your not taking into account certain tools are useless to certain people and invaluable to others. In the case of millitary tech what do you think is more user freindly to the average soldier the M16 or the F-16. How much money and training is needed for a suicide bomber? How much for a nuclear bomb?

Its not the same as a soldering iron or a hammer. Weaponry exists with an implicit threat to other human beings. There is no implicit "threat to woodwork" by carrying around carpenter tools. Look at the nature of the drones from all angles. Who is it designed to threaten? Who is it designed to spy on? How much resources must be invested into it and how much returns do you get. How hard is it to put together. How much training is needed to use it. Rough calculations and you end up with something like 100 guys able to peep on 100,000. At the same time its cheaper to build, run and operate than an F-16 making it less of a natural "elite" weapon.By elite weapon I mean something that would be excessively difficult for a small organization to acquire and use.For surveillance they're good for the elite, for violence they are very very dangerous to the elite. These things can go wild Herat or the Hamptons.  To be honest it seems like its a serious miscalculation on the part of the government to let these weapons proliferate. The millitary is having a hard fucking time dealing with IED's sooner or later someone will figure out a way of using these weapons effectively and things are going to get worse for the government. On one hand it makes easier to run a police state with usefull idiots on the other hand its more dangerous to the elite because its cheap.

 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:51 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

I don't think you guys get it. The EXISTENCE of ANYTHING is moot unless there is some intelligence behind it. Without intelligence, there is no intent and where there is no intent, there is only neutrality.  If my neighbor did build the Pussy Destructor, the intent is destruction, but if I use it as a display piece over his dead body, then it does nothing but make me money as people walk buy and admire my art. 

Sun, 12/09/2012 - 01:07 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

The intention to use a technology follows from its existence. Don't you agree? For example, it's pointless to talk about transporter beams and their ethical implications when they don't exist.

I have often mentioned Chekhov's quote that goes along the lines that 'if there is a gun on the table in Act I, it will be used in Act III.' But I'm not worried about guns, it's other kinds of technologies that worry me.

I think it would be very interesting to sit face-to-face instead of through this "anonymous" electronic medium. I think I could make a very convincing argument that technology is not all it is sold to be. But sitting behind the electronic barrier between you and me, it's easy to give a down vote, without ever making a substantive agument in defense of your position. You are essentially arguing that the makers of technology bear no responsibility for how that technology is used, and here I could not disagree more. Even before I took a class in ethics for engineers, I knew that some things should not be done. Why is this such a hard idea for so many (men?) people to understand?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:28 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

according to gun grabbers, that is just what they do. i handcuffed mine to a bedframe.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:05 | Link to Comment Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

I must be dense, too.  If the owners decide how technology is used, then technology is, indeed, very neutral.  It's the owners that aren't neutral.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:23 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

You *are* dense.

I don't think many people even here comprehend the real role of technology in our culture and the ways technological constraints will shape our future.

But if you are going to make the argument that technology is "neutral", I will argue strenuously in opposition. It is not possible to separate a technology from the people who pay for it.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 02:58 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

If the totality of your argument is that "we are dense", then I'm afraid your point won't go anywhere. You might try to enlighten us on your POV a bit more. Perhaps there is an interesting twist, perhaps not. 

The knives in my drawer are still in the same spot... 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

That's not my argument. Why don't you get to the real point?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 03:22 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

you said: " The owners decide how it is to be used."

Ok.. sure.. I create a keyboard. Its purpose is to allow me to click a key and send information to .... and out on my screen I see characters. 

I create a widget designed to create infinite amounts of energy... 

I create a hand held computing device that allows me access to vast amounts of information...

 

If you're saying that there is a goal behind every technology, then you are correct. By the virtue of the intended use of the technology. This is obvious. But you are not connecting that unless the tech is "self-aware" (or maybe you are if "self-aware" is your fore-sight) that there still needs to be an intelligent, driving force, behind that tool.  My old phone on my shelf hasn't seen the light of day for 3 years.. there is no power going to it. It isn't doing anything at all. It's purpose is not being actualized because I am not actively participating in using it. 

The Intent of a technology and the intent of the individual(s) who wield(s) it aren't necessarily the same.. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 09:22 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Let me have a shot at this.

We all know about the neutrality theory of money, right? So new money coming into an economy gets spread out, prices go up, price levels reach a new equilibrium. No change... in theory.

Now think of it in terms of the Cantillon Effect. Central bank-induced monetary inflation pricipally benefits only a small class of people... at everyone else's expense.

The same with military technology - the people these things are being developed for are, by definition, evil. It's true that the technology itself  is neutral, but that's beside the point - these drones won't be left in the cutlery cupboard alongside your bread knives, they'll be deployed, and the people who have the greatest wherewithal to deploy them have evil intent. We KNOW this - we've seen what they do, the people they kill.

I'm sure there will be some upside - the drone spotted my missing labrador and we rescued it from drowning! - kind of thing. But it will be vastly outweighed by the bad, because the technology was built specifically for evil use.

Sun, 12/09/2012 - 01:17 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

"It's true that the technology itself is neutral, but that's beside the point ..."

It's not true, it's just a cultural myth. And it's not besides the point. It's the whole point.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 04:13 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

Geekgrrl: We seem to be paraphrasing each other, so my density puts me in good company.

Small wonder that "Technocrats" squeal when anyone threatens 'their' intellectual property.

Some children never stop playing King of the Castle.

Sun, 12/09/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I don't think we are saying the same thing, but I might be misunderstanding your point.

I've seen first-hand how technologies are used for a purpose. That purpose comes from a person(s). They are not in any way neutral, and as I said, this is the biggest myth of our culture.

My thoughts on this topic would take a lot of words, but suffice it to say that although I was also indoctrinated with the myth that technology is neutral, over the years I have come to the conclusion that this is a meme that is engineered to pacify people with respect to the real damage done by a wide range of technologies.

Cui bono? That's always the question.

I have to say, it's humorous to to me to see how many people cling to their technology in a kind of sacrilegious way. Either I have some haters following me around, or there was a lot of knee-jerk responses to unexamined assumptions and ideas about technology. Either way, I think it says much more about the junkers than the junkee.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Spinelli
Spinelli's picture

Technology IS nuetral.

Fixed it for ya :)

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 08:25 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Let's find out where these drones hang out off duty and adjust their attitude with a Louisville Slugger.

Sun, 12/09/2012 - 01:37 | Link to Comment geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

:-)

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment Nimby
Nimby's picture

So what you're saying is that if the zombies don't kill us, SkyNet will.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Never pack heat in your blouse only upskirt.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

will a kilt do?

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

'can then be analyzed by .... an artificial intelligence'

i told them fellas back on the farm that if they started that artyfacial incementation stuff, itta lead to no good.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

Mission creep.

This will not end well.

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:23 | Link to Comment praxis
praxis's picture

The very premise of drones flying over us is unconstititutional.  There is no probable cause.  It's kinda like sobriety check points...everyone is considered guilty. 

I think Krauthammer is correct the first person to shoot one down will become a folk hero.  I'm with the guys who perfected the drone that infects all the other ones with a virus.  Now that is a drone used for good...and as such there will be those among us who will perfect and start flying THESE drones as a defense against the evil ones...unless they accept the Constitution and ABIDE by it.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 06:59 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

Methinks something might be done with a $20 arduino board for the controller, a DSP to listen to mobile phone signal bounces to detect the drone and some plastic parts printed in a 3D printer for flight control.

I'm thinking a 1st stage rocket powered, 2nd stage propeller, last stage projectile. Drone are not fast - they're mostly propeller planes designed for endurance rather than speed.

Put the plans on the Internet so that anybody can copy them.

I'm surprised recipes for homemade low high-tech weapons are not all over the Net yet: the necessary processing power in a small package is out there (and cheap) and there are lots of people with the necessary hardware and software knowledge to to design the hardward-software mix which goes into modern target control and the like. Then there are all kinds of unusual solutions that work in urban environments (using the mobile phone radio wave bounces to detect flying objects being one example of those) even if they would be near useless in a real war.

 

Thu, 12/06/2012 - 23:24 | Link to Comment post turtle saver
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long Stingers

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