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Job Quality Vs Quantity: Number Of Jobs vs Average Hourly Earnings

Tyler Durden's picture


In light of the composition of today's NFP pickup, driven by retail, waste and administrative and hospitality and leisure, all low-wage jobs, even as Construction jobs posted their first decline in many months on the "housing recovery" and on Hurricane Sandy rebuilding, we refreshed the chart showing that there is a quality not just quantity component to the jobs number. Sadly, the quality, in the form of Y/Y change of average hourly earnings, continues to be non-existent.


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Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:13 | 3042345 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Crap, we're getting poor.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:16 | 3042353 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Prosperity is just around the corner.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:17 | 3042375 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Can we have the chart indexed to Shadow Stats inflation estimate?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:48 | 3042504 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

really? i dont want to cry so early in the day

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 18:22 | 3044122 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Job "Quality" = easiest job function per dollar unearned.


ibanking for 90hours /week for mere $200k total comp where 3/4 goes to rent seekers and uncle sam is not "quality"



Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:48 | 3042505 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

The Central Bankers are laughing at us groveling for slavehood where we earn an inflation adjusted 5 cents per hour and pay 4 cents an hour in taxes.

 But don't end the Fed, nooooo, that would be bad


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:51 | 3043228 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



How about Gallup will that help?

U.S. Unadjusted Unemployment Shoots Back Up


Corporate profits hit record as wages get squeezed

I have an ear mite I keep hearing that Giant sucking sound 

From Good Jobs To Bad Jobs To No Jobs - The Tragic Downfall Of The American Worker


No not good enough well then here's some shadow stats though not on inflation

CHART SHOCK: The REAL Unemployment Rate Is 22%


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 17:26 | 3043971 dicktator
dicktator's picture

moreover, as it was posted on ZH earlier, the jobs were essentially added in the age bracket 55-69... so, well experienced, senior executive MacJobs

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:18 | 3042378 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

For whom?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:19 | 3042384 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

For all.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:43 | 3042457 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

McJobs are all the rage. What a relief that Big Mac assembly was not reclassified to a manufacturing job as originally and seriously proprosed.

The New American Normal will (very) soon be a 30 hour workweek (to technically avoid payment of benefits/health care, as "employees" are rolled on to Obamacare-- whose "mandatory" premiums & co-pays will consume 15% to 20% of take home pay-- by the dozens of millions), a median hourly wage that's near 19/hour and that declines in real terms by 1.5% per annum, and 1 actually "employed" worker for every 3 retirees + SNAP/EBT-UI-xUI/SSI recipients, whowill  pay an average of 45% in federal, state and local taxes (ranging up to a top marginal tax rate of 65%+ for "the wealthy").

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:45 | 3042500 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Seems to me that a "30 hour workweek" would leave a lot of free time for mischief.

Let me say it again, go long black markets and personal security firms.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:09 | 3042514 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Even the New York Times, the best cheerleader a Krugman-loved POTUS could ever hope for, is reporting U6 now, even if not prominently (and even if U6 significantly understates what it purports to state due to laughably incompetent survey methodologies):

U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs


The gain in November was sharper than expected in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, but the Labor Department report also revised previous job gains for September and October downward.

By the widest measure of joblessness, unemployment also eased slightly: After factoring in people looking for work as well as those forced to take part-time positions because full-time work wasn’t available, the unemployment rate fell to 14.4 percent in November from 14.6 percent in October.


So, just a SWAG, but U6 is most likely in excess of 20%. Wooo Hoo bitchez!

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:15 | 3042355 max2205
max2205's picture

but, hey, everybody who wants a 30 hr job for $10 per hr can get else do you want

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:27 | 3042427 toady
toady's picture

That was my dilemma before I gave up.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:49 | 3042508 asteroids
asteroids's picture

The chart is clear, on average you are making less. Divide that number by the ever increasing debt. You and your grandkids owe moar! Just like Greece the US edges closer to a black hole.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:28 | 3042704 PD Quig
PD Quig's picture

A few years back the media would have been screaming about a "jobless recovery" or "low-wage McJobs."

Now they have their tongues firmly inserted into Obama's rectum and cannot get to their word processor software right now.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:13 | 3042347 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Seats don't matter. Aggregate income does.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:13 | 3042349 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

chart that in burgers flipped per minute...

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:25 | 3042420 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Good idea, but I want a second metric in pounds of burgers flipped per minute since everything is more filler and less killer these days.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:15 | 3042356 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

That seems bearish ¡

Divergence between german Bund at 145.70 yield 1,30% and DAX  7.500 AWESOME





Fiscal Cliff Alert

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:17 | 3042374 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Say that again...."No more QE"

Then consider if you mean it seriously.

If so then check into a mental hospital immeditaly. Don't drive there, have a neighbor take you. Be careful. Our thoughts are with you.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:12 | 3043081 Ballin D
Ballin D's picture

Things always happen the same until they dont anymore.  If the plug is going to get pulled during this presidency, it would probably be now, when he no longer needs to worry about reelection but before he's dug us all any deeper in the hole.


It wont happen though.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:47 | 3042361 azengrcat
azengrcat's picture

Obamacare burger flipper reshuffle

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:48 | 3042366 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Proof positive that general wage stagflation has been going on for at least 15 years.

Globalisation has A LOT to answer for.


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:17 | 3042373 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:33 | 3042448 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

or a V shaped recovery.

/sarc off

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:17 | 3042376 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Here is Table 1 of the Employment Situation Report for November 2012:

Focus only on the "Not seasonally adjusted" datum. Look at the participation rate (down to 63.5%, second-lowest in history, only behind April 2012) and the number of people considered to not be in the labor force (up over a million month-on-month). And look at the number employed (down 500k from October). And persons who currently want a job (up 350k from the prior month).

There is your "improvement" in employment.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:19 | 3042383 bullet
bullet's picture

would love to see a similar chart of official jobs number vs. dropped out of workforce monthly comparison....

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:44 | 3042498 chunga
chunga's picture

If everyone permanently drops out of the workforce the unemployment rate will be zero percent.

That's awesome.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:44 | 3042999 sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

that would be 0 divided by 0 which is not equal to 0

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:19 | 3042385 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

those wages will go far to pay off college debt, buy a car, then a house, and then send the kids off to college

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:19 | 3042388 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

All that fucking matters is the jobs headline.  The algos are latched on and it's off to the fucking moon we go.


Recovery!  I hope the BLS shitheads responsible get their arms fucking torn off by a city bus...fuck you assholes!

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:23 | 3042408 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Kind of funny how just yesterday all the 'wisdom' was speaking about a certain -20% market drop to scare into action on fiscal cliff (actually raising taxes) but anyway here we are in direct opposite land.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:26 | 3042423 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Soup Line-you have to stop beating around the bush with how you feel-it's like dealing with the Mrs.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:33 | 3042450 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Sorry otto, I know my thoughts can be convoluted, submissive and abstract.  I'll work on it.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:20 | 3042395 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Quality of jobs' means nothing as long as ObaMao can go out and brag about the unemployment # which is all anyone cares about. Until it all suddenly implodes anyway.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:27 | 3042428 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think (some of) the American public is waking up to the lies- the Interwebs have helped alot.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:28 | 3042430 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Obama (in President) since 2008 means that all blacks go out & buy beemers then default on the payments... So far it's looking pretty swell...

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:21 | 3042400's picture

I can just see a fat rich guy sitting in his leather chair surrounded by his wood lined office, wearing a smug grin, petting his white imported cat knowing only headlines matter and that he will get richer'er and the rest of us will get poorer'er

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:41 | 3042490 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Most of the rich guys I know don't have wood lined offices, they aren't fat, they don't sit with a white imported cat on their lap ever, and they work too hard to be anywhere near smug.

They're American hard work success stories.


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:56 | 3042538 SwimmininNawlins
SwimmininNawlins's picture

They are not the 'rich' guys

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:10 | 3042610 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I think he is confused with TBTF people in the banking/finance sector that have your representation in their hip pocket.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:38 | 3042770 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

If they're working hard, it's probably because they're not actually rich.  Reggie had a pretty good definition, if you have to work for a living (even as a Fortune 500 CEO), you're not rich.  


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:23 | 3042407 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

But our household wealth is back to 2007 levels. How can this be? What they don't say is how that 2012 dollar won't buy you what a 2007 dollar would. We are getting poorer as a nation any way you look at it.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:30 | 3042442 youngman
youngman's picture

That is what Obama wants....he thinks we are a greedy country..use to much to to well and we put the costs on the rest of the world....he wants to take us down to their level....redistribution.....

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:36 | 3042462 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yep and it's working too.

“The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”

Vladimir Lenin

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:30 | 3042737 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

“The way to crush the middle class is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:09 | 3042608 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

This is the same Obama that is taking the $4 million dollar vacation in Hawaii, is that correct?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:41 | 3043185 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

I'm praying for volcanoes and tidal waves.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:40 | 3042780 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Just wanted to remind everyone that Obama doesn't even shit without permission.  What Obama wants has absolutely no bearing on what actually happens.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:43 | 3043196 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

So? The Kenyan Globalist 'Bator (KGB, for short) still deserves our contempt.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:22 | 3042409 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Paging Mark Wilson.  Mark Wilson, you are need in this thread to rebut the "negative spin" of the jobs report.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:27 | 3042424 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Could it be that the Jobs number is going up because people used to have one Full Time Job.  They now have two Part Time Jobs at the same pay or less than their prior Full Time Job.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:30 | 3042440 Racer
Racer's picture

And whilst the debt slaves get ever poorer, the 0.1% get even more steeenking rich on the backs of the poor, sick and old

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:47 | 3042503 edifice
edifice's picture

Welcome to the world, since...Well...The beginning.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:33 | 3042451 granolageek
granolageek's picture

Only at ZH can the editors manage snark at the idea that construction jobs declined in November. What will they say when construction jobs rise again next April?

Get up from the computer in your parent's basement and look out the window.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:44 | 3042495 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

The "snark" was for the obvious contradiction between lower construction employment versus the ongoing so-called 'housing recovery'. The Tylers aren't the dimwits here.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:56 | 3042539 granolageek
granolageek's picture

I neither stated nor implied that the Tylers are dimwits. To the contrary, they're as smart as Roger Ailles, just on a smaller scale.


I did imply, and will state, that they cynically and deliberately post sensationalist distortions of the actual stories they reprint, both pushing an agenda, and seeking eyeballs.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:05 | 3042580 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

exactly. The fox news of financial blogging. And so ironic that the people on this site (who claim to be enlightened and aware of MSM bias and corruption yada yada yada) follow these articles as gospel. Why fact check or think for yourself when whatever the Tyler's post is true? ha. sheep.   


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:19 | 3042661 Spinelli
Spinelli's picture

People here don't see Tyler's posts as gospel... Hence the comments and replies...

Next time you post try to not be wrong? Kthnx idiot :)

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:23 | 3042691 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

"Hence the comments and replies".... that are all in agreement. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:52 | 3042828 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"I did imply, and will state, that they cynically and deliberately post sensationalist distortions of the actual stories they reprint, both pushing an agenda, and seeking eyeballs."

Since you clearly didn't read their policy on conflicts/full disclosure.  Regarding slant, the most likely case is that this blog was started by a former relatively low level insider who (like all insiders) did some shady shit and got thrown to the wolves as a sacrificial lamb when his firm got caught, who is now actively rooting for the destruction of the entire financial system, because the system, in his view, is fundamentally corrupt beyond repair.  He knows his shit pretty well and has consistently embarrassed some very powerful people who have pretty consistently been fucking over "the little guy".  

As somebody who decided on the name "granolageek", and given your fairly obvious progressive/liberal stance, it seems like you should really be rooting for this blog, because at the end of the day, Tyler(s) are primarily interested in exposing corruption.  I'm personally a dude in the Bernie Sanders/Dennis Kucinich camp, and I love this blog.  Regardless of your political views, our country is screwed until we get a handle on the corruption in our economy (both public and private).  

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:20 | 3042676 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

Not all construction trades are equally affected by the weather. Unless the weather is really bad, you can still work on a house, as long as it's been "dried in" - IOW, the roof and rough siding are on. Concrete can be poured as long as it's 38F and rising. You can still run pipe, pull wire and set ductwork.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:34 | 3042455 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

Thank you, Tylers. This is more like it and is much appreciated for its informative content.

I refer here to analysis of goverental job creation statistics that goes beyond mere attacks on credibility. Such attacks are cheap by comparison to attempts to analyze and give meaning to the numbers.

What that analysis shows is that capitalism, in a context of intentionally lowered taxation, that has been the consistent policy for decades (where tax increases are always and forever bad), cannot and does not create good paying jobs.

The main and most worthy conclusion to draw from the analysis of job creation is that capitalism does not provide or create good jobs.

I could have told you that.

But, to its credit, ZH proved it all on its own.

Well done

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:00 | 3042561 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

In case you missed it, it's called Capitalism, not Workerism.

Also, in case you missed the past 160 years of world history, there has been a bit of a tension between capital and labor...

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:37 | 3042769 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Tension is a bit diplomatic...  more like labor got the Mr. Hands treatment.

I'll also add that it's specious at best for OP to mention capitalism solely, without acknowledging all of its counterparts fall prey to the same criticism.  [and, as an aside, economic systems don't create jobs...  individuals do; economic systems merely incentivize or disincentivize this process]

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:08 | 3042884 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Good statement! But what is your stance my friend? Capitalism does what it should, Workerism does not work, we know about history of tension between capital and labor, not only past 160 yr but millenia so what you wanted to say, just nothing? 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:05 | 3042870 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

The main and most worthy conclusion to draw from the analysis of job creation is that capitalism does not provide or create good jobs.

We have had hundreds of years of examples here in America where capitalism has proven the above conclusion wrong. First of all what you see today is not capitalism and it's certainly not free market capitalism. Secondarily, without capital formation there is little job creation nor invention where large job creation can occur. Lastly, when businesses fail they need to go through bankruptcy and not be bailed out.

Don't let the last decade of malfeasance and bailouts create the wrong conclusions on free market capitalism.


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:42 | 3042476 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Like wages matter, sheesh < sarc off > So long as the "casino index" goes up we are all "rich" right?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:43 | 3042493 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

"Here is Table 1 of the Employment Situation Report for November 2012:

Focus only on the "Not seasonally adjusted" datum. Look at the participation rate (down to 63.5%, second-lowest in history, only behind April 2012) and the number of people considered to not be in the labor force (up over a million month-on-month). And look at the number employed (down 500k from October). And persons who currently want a job (up 350k from the prior month).

There is your "improvement" in employment."


Capitalism does not create jobs. The private sector seeks to profit by laying off and by demanding more for less from those who continue to acquiesce.

Small wonder the labor participation is at or near historical lows.

Recall Hostess Bakery (maker of hfcs laden Twinkies). They went bankrupt in November, blaming it all on greedy workers who had the audacity to refuse to accept 30% across the board pay cuts and even more in benefit cuts; and, as to pension, don't even go there.

The quoted post is correct. Capitalism is not working out at all.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:50 | 3042510 FrankThinkTank
FrankThinkTank's picture

You are either fresh out of Academia, Europe, or brain damaged. Most likely all three, as they are mutually inclusive.


Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:51 | 3042520 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Did you read this, jplot?  If not, you should. 

Capitalism is not what is failing here.  Big government is strangling capitalism. 

If you'e ever been an employer you know exactly what is happening.  If not, you are only giving voice to resentment. 

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:58 | 3042845 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"Big government is strangling capitalism. "

I would parse this even a bit more and say that bad government is what is strangling our economy.  Big governments that are relatively more efficient, fair, and uncorrupted actually work pretty well.  I think this mostly has to do with the extent to which "the plebs" are allowed to participate and have a say in policy/administration.  

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:59 | 3042850 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Which isn't to say that big government is actually the answer here, but we also have terrible corruption in the "private" sector as well, especially in the financial system, which is a huge, huge drag on our economy.  

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:02 | 3043052 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

bad government

As if there is any other kind.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 13:00 | 3043047 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You are conflating what we have with the idea of Capitalism. How can something fail, which has yet to exist?

What it NOT working is Government coercion, and slavery.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:45 | 3042497 jsiv95
jsiv95's picture

we all die in 14 days

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:49 | 3042511 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

UK , AUSTRIA, FINLAND DOWNGRADED will be------------------> GERMAN 10yrs 0,75-0,80% yield



Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:51 | 3042515 SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

Ahhh, the ol' Up From Lowered Expectations gambit.

Wasn't Job creation in Oct 171,000

I thing November 146,000 is a down change?

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 10:52 | 3042522 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

And somewhere the Rothschild's, Morgan's, Rockefeller's etc. are smiling broadly.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 11:08 | 3042598 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Send those teasonous bastard corporations out of the country along with their CEOs. I wouldn't work for them anyhow almost no matter how much they offer to pay. Slave camps is what I call them.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:13 | 3042894 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The Age of Serfdom continues.

Imagine if you are a student trying to get an internship; most are unpaid!  But you need them for "experience" on your resume (as in, your employer knows you take it up the ass with a smile).

Unless students refuse to work for free, and workers take these shitty ass jobs, employers will continue to exploit them.  As much as I love "Our Walmart" for standing up to the greedy corporation...a much bigger impact would be to take a page from Ayn Rand's book: Go Galt, and walk away en masse.  Just have a massive quit day where 10K+ ppl just leave the job.  Granted, that takes guuts, and most of those ppl may not find other work.....but you have to hit the plutocrats where it hurts them most.  Not in a courtroom, and not their feelings...but their wallet.

I recall a story of a butler at Buckingham Palace who alledged that he was raped while on the job by a palace staffer....TWICE.

Now if I got raped ONCE...just ONCE.......that's it.  I'm not coming in, not even putting in my two weeks - you can mail me my check.  Hell, keep the damn thing.

But what's the key point here: the butler got raped TWICE.

That's means for his new employer, that means he's good for being raped at least ONCE.

Fri, 12/07/2012 - 12:30 | 3042962 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

This will be revised upward next month once Benny's wage increase from $11 to 11.50/hr is factored in.

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