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Meanwhile In Lansing, Michigan...

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Hours ago, the US labor union movement was dealt another crushing blow (the most recent being the recent liquidation of Hostess which left thousands of workers cold and unemployed just in time for Thanksgiving) when the Michigan legislature gave final approval to "right-to-work" restrictions on public sector unions in a state considered a stronghold of organized labor. In the meantime, over 10,000 protesters had gathered outside the legislature, chanted in the gallery, and generally expressed their displeasure quite vocally with this development that further set back labor in its endless fight against capital. As Reuters reports, "the House passed the measure making membership and payment of union dues voluntary for public sector employees such as teachers by a 58-51 vote.  The only government workers excluded would be police and fire unions. The Senate approved the same bill last week so it will now go to Republican Governor Rick Snyder, who has promised to sign it into law."

Incidentally, these same workers would be better advised to direct their anger at Chairman Bernanke who has done everything in his power in the past several years to shift the balance of power far more in benefit of capital courtesy of ZIRP and zero cost of capital, which allows companies to cut as many workers as needed in order to pursue the almight bottom line dollar, while extracting unprecedented productivity gains out of those still employed, as workers no longer can fall back on savings and are forced to accept any labor conditions in a New Normal world in which living paycheck to paycheck is becoming the norm for most, and thus giving employers all the leverage.

But that is a philosophical debate for a different place. But for now, here are two short clips to serve as a harbinger of what may and most likely will happen in the US as labor unions are stripped of even more power in the coming months and years, showcasing their reluctance to go gentle into that good night. This is how close the US is from violence at any one moment.

Luckily, nobody was seriously hurt this time.

Has the Syntagma riotcam finally crossed the Atlantic?

 

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Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:21 | 3053155 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture

 

yes...stay close to the exit with ur back against the wall. All is well.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:25 | 3053168 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Whoever starts the killing first will be first in line to control the new system.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:40 | 3052951 Zombie Investor
Zombie Investor's picture

Just following orders:

"“There will be blood,” Representative Douglas Geiss, a Democrat from Taylor, said in debate."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-11/thousands-come-to-michigan-c...


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:45 | 3052983 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Blood from papercuts as the lawsuits fly.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:45 | 3052988 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

By who, that weak little fat fucking mangina?  With his whole crew of hard OG legislators? 

Well, he needs to be up at the front of the picket with his jimmy stick and show everyone how it's done.  Bat Fucking Masterson himself.  Old Hickory.

Douche.

Is this the Fire at last?  I feel pleasantly warmed. Giddy, almost.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:30 | 3053202 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Found Waldo, left of the jackboots.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:40 | 3052957 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

anti-unionists are payed for by the CEO's, don't fall for it folks (on either side), listen to Webster Tarpley WCR

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:44 | 3052966 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Tarpley is an avowed Socialist. I think I would rather just think for myself than listen to what some chimp socialist says.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:48 | 3053008 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

You may learn some of the classic employed tactics in the anti gangster capitalist struggle either way, he predicted this would happen exactly.

http://tarpley.net/world-crisis-radio/

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:56 | 3053040 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

I didn't go because if I ran into any of you anti union fucks, I will beat your ass into the fucking ground, then shit in your mouth.

Fucking repuke morons. Blaming the union of middle class amerika thinking if you don't have it, then no body should, while the asshioles bail out out all the absolute useless banksters and thier paid politicians.

Can't wait when you get yours.

My wife teaches all your asshole special ed kids. Maybe you assholes should do everbody the favor and just shoot these poor little fuckups.  

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:02 | 3053069 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Maybe you wife should "edumacate" you in logic and art of presenting your point of you without the brown shirt threats and thuggery.  Sounds like she would have trouble as you certainly are a "special ed problem".

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:03 | 3053073 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

You didnt go because your a pussy!  Go stir shit up internet tough guy and take your worthless whore wife with you.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:03 | 3053074 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Relax ruffcut,  violence will be addressed with violence.  If you don't think there are professionals in this area, you have not been paying attention to the way America has been conducting itself over the last 100 or so years.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:05 | 3053079 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

you fat fuck, you didn't go because you break a sweat lifting fritos corn chips past your chins to your cockholster.

So I tell you what.  You just sit there for a bit longer.  We all know you're good for that, especially now, after this recent show of chivalrous discretion.  You and your stinkin bubble assed straw haired sandals and sweatpants wearing harpy of a wife just keep the widescreen lit.

Things will come to you before it's over.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:12 | 3053114 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

LOL

"Internets, Serious Business!"

Did you ever consider NOT choosing evil, rather than an evil you personally profit from?

Your anger is NOTHING but an elite tool used against you. Every "ass you beat" is one they don't have to. Get that?

Divide and conquer, my friend, divide and conquer.

Perhaps you should step away from the keyboard for a while? (so that you might regain control of yourself, rather than to remain THEIR tool)

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:13 | 3053120 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Well bring yee ass on down. I'm right at the front door. I weigh 350lbs, bring yee god damn ass on down, I'm right at the front door, my names Jim. Make sure you kick the cow shit off ur boots fuk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdahyxsHwrg

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:17 | 3053133 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Are you fat too?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:18 | 3053141 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I will be bluntly honest with you. I prefer to speak rationally and work my issues out with words and thought. However that should not make you assume that I am weak or unwilling to defend myself. I am a medically-retired US Army Infantryman. I will have no emotional qualms about shooting you in the face if you attack me.

 

You have been made aware of our standing, if you chose to remain civil, you will remain alive.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:53 | 3053296 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i fukked yer wife in her toofless mouf lulz suk it lulz

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:59 | 3053325 James
James's picture

AWWW Ruffcut-You havin' a bad day?

Well this ones for you!

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHIj_Kyl5M

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:02 | 3053507 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Wow, your wife is one of those that spoon out the state mandated pablum? Does she have enough critical thinking skills to see that the retirement she was promised is nothing but a whisp of smoke?

 

Probably not.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:22 | 3053570 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

So your wife teaches Special Ed? Are you one of her former students? From what I can see, Michigan is like Mississippi without the nice weather and the proud history.

In the standoff between jewish capital and organized labor, I find it impossible to identify with either side.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:41 | 3052958 mjorden
mjorden's picture

How can one logically think, with or without all the computer or brain power in the world, that printing Trillions of these things called 'dollars' won't have drastic 'unattended' consequences? especially when individuals only make 0.000000001875% of it ... 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:40 | 3052959 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Statists are violent. The statist know's no other way.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:49 | 3053011 redpill
redpill's picture

When your very philosophy requires that you compel people to obey at the point of a government gun in nearly every aspect of life from the start, there aren't many scruples left.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:06 | 3053085 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

When all you have is a hammer and sickle, all your problems look like kulaks.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:21 | 3053152 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

That's a good one. FORWARD!!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:24 | 3053162 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Good luck trying to explain that to the public though. I think the prosperity some were so willing to steal in the past has made a large number of people intellectually lazy and put that whole survival of the fittest thing out of whack.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:43 | 3052964 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

You will have this in fascism.

Q: What do Ben Bernanke, Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, and all of the other Wall Street corruptocrats have in common?

A: Regardless of party affiliation, all will be tucked snugly in their gated communites and penthouse suites, safe and sound from the rioting masses.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:09 | 3053097 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Yeah..  well..  a nice temporary jail compound it will be..  Tell me..  What do Ben, Jamie, and Lloyd do when suddenly their power goes out because some "little guy", who used to work for the utility company, just chopped down the power pole feeding their gated community?

 

The truth of the matter is that the "rich" are much more dependent on the middle class then the middle class is of them.. This generation of unskilled "rich" whom have inherited that wealth have no practical skills to save their own lives..

 

They're fucked..  totally.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:35 | 3053221 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

"we guard you while you sleep."

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:42 | 3052969 LikeClockwork
LikeClockwork's picture

America: Greece with guns

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:43 | 3052972 TraderMark
TraderMark's picture

Original intent of unions was good.  Problem is unions have become like any large organization - fat and lazy, top heavy.  There has to be a happy medium as in Germany where public companies are 1/3rd shareholder, 1/3rd managment, and 1/3rd labor on the board.  All they did was assimilate a backwards East Germany, become the world's superpower of high end exporting, and create a world of hard workers, who still get nice benefits, vacations, and healthcare.  Who would want that - damn socialists.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:58 | 3053050 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

I agree with the right of association. I agree with the union saying to the boss, "Unless you give us a raise, we all quit."

 

But do you agree with letting the boss call your bluff and hiring replacements? Or do you think scabs should be threatened with violence and the government should force the boss to negotiate?

 

Do you believe in force or freedom? Unions or right-to-work? Take your pick.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:26 | 3053181 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Right to Work, your employment should be based on merit. If you have an issue with that, then start a business yourself.

 

That is my standard reply to all Union supporters. I have nothing against Unions, but I hate when they try to make me pay for something I will never use, because I have no qualms if I get terminated from my job for being a turd.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:20 | 3054070 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Nothing to belittle your comment but of the 17 years I worked in right-to-work states (of many years working), I rarely saw a turd get fired (if he was known to tow the corporate line without question) but I did see plenty of honest, hard working get fired .... honesty became their primary character flaw (use honesty wisely young jedi).  The 'Employment based on merit' meme is a lie used in promoting these 'right-to-work' agenda's by 'Business Roundtable' types, there is nothing in non-right-to-work states to stop an employer from firing someone.  What the right-to-work thing does is enables companies to fire people wrongfully and not have to pay unemployment compensation ... that what supporting it promotes and I have seen it happen to good people and not 'turds' so much.  In the smaller companies they can pick off employees thru these laws when they want to downsize some and don't want to pay the cost of a layoff.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:44 | 3052977 batz
batz's picture

 

 

 

Unions protect workers from better ones.

Pubic sector unions are the reason we have a government debt crisis. There are lots of political arguments, but when you ask where all that fiat money went, it went to the salaries, pensions and benefits of public union members. 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:07 | 3053090 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

The patron saint of democratic lefties, one FDR vehiemently opposed "government" unions as he knew the consumers of government had no other choice.  If non-public unions want to commit suicide let them do it, no problem, but fuck public unions.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:21 | 3053157 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Not to dismiss your point, but there are plenty of non-unionized government "workers" doing everything in their power to destroy society.

just sayin'

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:33 | 3053834 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

government sachs?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:45 | 3052985 Hondo
Hondo's picture

Yes, the world is still populated with morons..........

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:14 | 3053119 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

This will get fixed soon, I'm thinking.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:28 | 3053186 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I wish it would happen sooner, this wait is killing me.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:49 | 3052991 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

I do not know why, I happen to be a small millionaire (coming from farmer background) but I love to see the workers kick the ass of this young prick. Brings a warm feeling inside.  It is time to restore true capitalism where the real capitalists are rewarded to be prudent instead of borrowing to pay dividend and expect a bailout when they have no cash in hand and there is a contraction. Can this system end soon please. I do not know who enjoys it except the psychopath at the very top.

Private Banks have the right to cartelize the banking system and the entire economy and the workers would not have a right to try to cartelize ? What are those pricks on the very top expecting ? That they fuck everyone and those guys are going to say thank you? A good punch in the face is what they will get if they want a face to face contact.

 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:30 | 3053192 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Thuggery is not justifiable no matter the reasoning. Unions are just as less capitalized versions of the corporations they leech off of.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:36 | 3053234 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

"It is time to restore true capitalism where the real capitalists are rewarded to be prudent instead of borrowing to pay dividend and expect a bailout when they have no cash in hand and there is a contraction"

 

How the fuck is this any different than D-Ill. Gov Quinn, days before an election, promising raises and layoff freezes to to the SEIU for 2 years (just days after the SEIU donated $100K to his campaign) while the State of Illinois completely broke and is borrowing money to pay vendors for past services?  Not to mention the billions in unfunded union pension liabilities promised by Democrats to the unions who were elected with the very funds taken (stolen) from union workers.

 

BTW - if you 'made' your money by inheriting/working farmland, you can thank those pesky capitalist and the Fed printing for your windfall.  The historic rise in cost of arable acreage isn't coming from the demand of those union workers.  But you seem to be the kind of guy that would sell me land at $500/acre instead of the going price of $10,000/acre because you're a 'good guy', right?

 

 


 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:56 | 3053313 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

You got that wrong, I did not inherit actually.But I benefitted from the printing clearly, shall I apologize? Should you apologize if you fare way better off than you neighbor because you see what is coming?

I am just putting myself in the shoes of those guys. You make promises to them, they are probably not driving a luxury car, they probably have families with kids and they fight for what they were promised. What is right to promise them something, I am not sure. I can just see those guys stressed like hell and trying to make a stand and trying to defend what they have. If they get cut, their family suffers, they fight for their own interest, I am not blaming them, I am not rationalizing further.

I just love to see a guy who looks ~educated~ and ~civilized~ trying to rationalize angry workers in a period of hardship get pummeled, ok maybe that s weird, alright I ll give you that.

Long story short, you fuck the lower classes with fiat system you get blow back. I just hope Buffet ends up with on a pique, as for me, I am outside of OECD countries a long time ago.

 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:47 | 3052997 marathonman
marathonman's picture

The union guys seeking to live for free for twenty years after leaving the workforce seems to be the issue.  If they would just save money and fend for themselves after leaving the company then the companies could still survive.  But carrying the weight of generations of non-workers cripples any enterprise and will cause its collapse.  In anything.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:52 | 3053020 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@marathonman

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I would add that rent-seekers, i.e. bankers, are more of a drag because they create nothing and are incapable of creating anything.  At least a teamster can drive a truck.  A banker?  They control the money supply, denominating the value of everything in dollars and then siphoning off those dollars for themselves.  The rent seekers, i.e. bankers, are the real leaches, the generations of non-workers that cripple our economy.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:03 | 3053058 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

The banksters created synthetic CDO's-squared..............at least thats something

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:03 | 3053072 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

I think warlocks are worse than werewolves too.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:20 | 3053148 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Opinionated Ass

The worst thing I can think of is that America has allowed a certain group of people to create an economy that is, for lack of a better description, based on the Monopoly board game.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:31 | 3053204 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I thought that was the point of those Anti-Trust suits back in the day. Didn't some hick Neo-Con get elected for being a "Trust Buster"?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:47 | 3053278 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

Monopolies only exist with government approval.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:51 | 3053290 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

monopolies thrives after they have successfully captured or neutralized any response from society, including governmental intervention

fixed for you

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:17 | 3053368 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

How do you "neutralize any response from society" without government on your side? Could the bankers have a monopoly on counterfeiting money without the Federal Reserve Act?

Oops, I see your avatar is a fiat currency symbol. Sorry if I offend with my example.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:33 | 3053425 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you have it backward. first you have to convince society that you are doing great things. then you can capture society's governmental arm that could stop you, and then you eliminate or incorporate all competitors

worked this way for the Robber Barons and their ilk since ages - look at the history of railways, for example

banks? the same. first you have great returns for the masses. then you have a scare in 1907. then you convince society that you are the good wizards of that dangerous stuff. then you band together with those who think the world ought not to belong to europeans alone

then you destroy the balance between states and federation, with directly elected senators

then, and only then you set up the FED, a benign institution at first, with gold backed money

then you partecipate in a world war and finally you are the top dog of the world with an unlimited credit card, as long as you are willing to wage eternal war, though

should you have too little war abroad you can of course wage war "on something else"

anyway, my point is that you have to convince society first, or you can't coopt "the government"

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:49 | 3053476 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

If government did not have a monopoly on the use of violence within a given territory...what would be the point of coopting it?

I see you did conceed that government (after being coopted) is indeed required for monopolies to exist. Thank you.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:59 | 3053501 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

too dogmatic and too focused on "government". too much simplistic propaganda in it

it's society that allows you to do what you do, in good or bad, but particularly in all "big"

look at Egypt. the prez is the government. but society is undecided about it

and the "monopoly on violence" is mostly standing on the side, both army and police

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:18 | 3053555 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

"it's society that allows you to do what you do" ...as in "you didn't build that, society did it"? I think I'm starting to get you Fiatman.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:23 | 3053575 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

urgh... reversal to simple electoral memes? I'm actually talking about "do" things like monopolies

but yes, you are bound by what your society thinks is taboo or not

prove the opposite, if you can

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:18 | 3053769 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Well, let's see....the unions and the government jointly operate the education system.  How many generations with this set-up do you think it would take before "society" started to think like those two groups?  Do you want to know how to turn an entire society into "sheep?"  There you go.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:37 | 3053446 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

my avatar? well, it's about how fiat money should be - it's a long story and it boils down to gold and paper being both useful as currencies - depending how you use them

you can nail people on crosses of gold or you can burn them in paper hells but you can also avoid those two extremes with reasonable policies

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:53 | 3053488 akak
akak's picture

 

my avatar? well, it's about how fiat money should be

Then you would be much better served by this one:

RIP

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:07 | 3053520 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

nah, only a few scratches, yet

and no loss of Ireland or Greece, yet, and who would have thought so by reading in ZH?

the fun begins when the central banks have to reverse gear, and we are not there, yet

and of course the crack-up booms, but this is again a different story

btw did you notice that the FED is stashing FX? for the first time since the British Pound ruled?

what is FX for a CB? ammo

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:19 | 3053563 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

Gold = ammo, FX = toilet paper.

 

There, fixed it for you.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:26 | 3053593 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

don't tell the Chinese! what would happen if they would sell their FX stash?

but yes, eventually it might escalate to gold, agreed. it usually does

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:04 | 3053735 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

Ghordius, you seem dazzled by the bright colors of fiat paper and "special FX"...let's walk through this: China sells USD and buys Euros, China sells Yen and buys USD...pick any FX transaction you like. Even if they dump every single FX reserve and buy gold, this would simply increase the amount of fiat toilet paper needed to buy one ounce of real money.

How does any of this change the value of gold exactly?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 07:27 | 3055109 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

let's put it this way: I save. In gold. physical and non-leveraged

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:00 | 3053499 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

How about this: let people be free to use paper currency if they want,  and let them be free to use gold currency if they want.

Fiat currency involves forcing people to use paper. You don't agree with initiating violence, do you? Oh wait, yes you do: you believe in democracy aka mob rule, where the winners get to force the losers to obey their laws.

My preference is a world with strong private property rights and for-profit arbitration courts to settle disputes. Government is fine provided they also submit to the decisions of these private courts and obeying government edicts is completely voluntary for the people.

I'm afraid democracy, that you like so much, has been a sham foisted on the people who didn't like monarchy and its dual standard of law for the king vs his subjects. We still have a dual standard of law. Democractically elected public officials are allowed to do what you or I would go to jail for doing -- with public courts deciding if what public officials do is ok or not. Try holding up a rich guy at gunpoint and handing out the loot to the homeless to test this duality for yourself.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:19 | 3053558 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

my problem with your statement is that it flows from a US perspective we continental europeans simply don't have

we had real, hard-ass dictatorships and world wars on our territory but we did not have a "gold confiscation", for example

our fascist governments of old took a lot of freedoms, but never imposed a currency

in fact, if you research you'll find that we have a couple of private currencies in the eurozone (and Switzerland) that would be forbidden in the US

we also have a different appreciation of "democracy" and "peace" because we have stark memories of how life is without them

further, our legal system is seriously different from yours and the Brit's and so also our understanding of "government"

and we had much, much more revolutions - something that makes our governments more gentle and considerate vs us

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:27 | 3053595 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

How gentle is your government when you pay your taxes in something other than Euros? Are they gentle when they come and evict you and your family from your house? Soft truncheons like the riot police in Spain use? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDcRpCHfRgs

Just curious.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 07:31 | 3055112 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you can't compare the whole issue of taxes and tax-tokens (aka fiat money) with those scenes.

look more closely, they were isolating and grabbing stone-throwers out of the crowd

the whole demonstration has to be seen in context

"gentler" would be more exact. acet has written it better than me

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:07 | 3053746 Acet
Acet's picture

I would say that the experience of revolution and of dictatorship doesn't directly makes the governments more gentle, rather it makes the people more alert to abuses by governments and more prone to squash them.

Here's an example:

- In the UK I once saw a pamphlet from the police saying for people to report to the police if they saw their neighbours put suspicious things in their trash cans. Also, the other day a judge forbid the showing of a program on the BBC which showed the London riots in a fair light (from the point of view of all sides, including the rioters).

Neither of these things would ever happen in Portugal: both are far too close to the kind of things that were done during the time of the Fascist dictatorship to keep people down (i.e. neighbours reporting on neigbhours and censorship of anything that didn't follow party lines). Politicians would be the targets of rotten eggs in the face and huge demonstrations if they tried any of these. In the UK: not a whimper was heard.

The difference, I believe, is because the UK has not been under occupation or a dictatorship for centuries now.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:25 | 3054100 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

and they have gotten that approval

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:46 | 3053276 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

So you think democracy is a sham too. Cheers.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:39 | 3053451 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

every democracy in any country in any age? no

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:28 | 3053416 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

Cursive. You wrote "non-workers that cripple our economy".

 

How do you feel about entrepreneurs that take risks with their savings starting a widget factory...and paying their workers up front before the first widget is sold? Are entrepreneurs "non-workers"? DISCLAIMER: Yes, this is my "are you a commie?" test.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:45 | 3054198 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

the bulk of widget makers are in china and india and a plethora of other countries in southeast asia ...  just saying.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:33 | 3053201 HoaX
HoaX's picture

Divide and conquer would sure be what the guys at the top would love to happen.

At least Unions still have the balls to go on the street instead of preaching revolution from their comfy armchair like most prepper-pricks on this site. No one should be forced to join them but as much as is wrong with them that alone makes it worth it imho.

Now bring it with your downvotes bitchez.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:36 | 3053229 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Being a violent thug is not a revolution. Revolutions imply a change taking place. Replacing one band of criminal thugs with another band of criminal thugs is not a change.

 

Being a Non-Aggressor of others and understanding economics is a change from the status quo. Hence the Prepper-Pricks that you seem to despise so on this site being the actual revolutionaries you wish you were.

 

Some day you armchair revolutionaries will learn to use a dictionary too. Maybe after that you will learn to use that mass in your skull too.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:43 | 3053261 HoaX
HoaX's picture

What do dictionaries have to do with it? Besides being heavy objects perfectly suitable to throw at someones face?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:03 | 3053341 seek
seek's picture

Particularly in this case. The union is not fighting for revolution -- they're fighting to maintain the status quo. e.g. continued forced paid membership.

There is not enough money to sustain this status quo, there will be a reset.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:53 | 3054239 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

the status quo like what used to be the American Dream ... I agree except the reset has been ongoing for some time and is a process .. not an event in the future.  That event in the future is a currency/debt/whatever collapse of some sort.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:19 | 3054973 Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

Pensions are not about a desire to "live for free," and they are not bonuses or perks.  They are negotiated as future compensation in exchange for lower wages.  In essence, it's asking the employer to do the saving for them.  But more importantly, they are part of the entire compensation package, and it's to the benefit of management when people forget this.  Is it unreasonable to expect to receive your pension after accepting the lower wages?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 16:04 | 3057030 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Except that they don't actually receive lower compensation.  Public union employees are paid more than comparable private sector employees due to their conspiring with politicians against the taxpayers.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 12:16 | 3066300 Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

I meant lower compared to what they would otherwise get.  That unionized employees are paid better than non-union employees is evidence of the leverage provided by collective bargaining.  Why should it be OK for the companies to organize and create a united front in labor negotiations, but employees must go it alone?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 18:41 | 3057593 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

In the USA, I think it's "unreasonable" to expect anyone to ever treat you fairly or negotiate a contract in good faith.

That sorta shit just doesn't happen here.  The "square deal" was replaced with the "worthless promise" quite awhile ago.

Now if you'll please just sign here, we can give you all the gold in the kingdom...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:48 | 3053001 Cursive
Cursive's picture

 

 

Incidentally, these same workers would be better advised to direct their anger at Chairman Bernanke who has done everything in his power in the past several years to shift the balance of power far more in benefit of capital courtesy of ZIRP and zero cost of capital, which allows companies to cut as many workers as needed in order to pursue the almight bottom line dollar, while extracting unprecedented productivity gains out of those still employed, as workers no longer can fall back on savings and are forced to accept any labor conditions in a New Normal world in which living paycheck to paycheck is becoming the norm for most, and thus giving employers all the leverage.

But that is a philosophical debate for a different place. 

 

 

 

Preach it, TD!  This is THE problem for anyone who cares.  Sadly, most people cannot grasp this concept.  The rent seekers (bankers) are the filthy squatters on our economy.  They create nothing, but have usurped the wealth of this nation.  The unions want something different?  Have them tell Obama to arrest the bankers.  Yeah, I know, I'm laughing as I type that, knowing that it ain't gonna happen.

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:53 | 3053301 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Good efforts on this thread, Cursive.

But I'll tell ya, if it isn't already obvious....

Divided and Conquered... like taking candy from a baby.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:54 | 3053309 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

The concept that can't be grasped(it seems)  is that when the union "thugs" don't roll over and "beg" for the priviledge to suck banker cock then the statist thugs(former and current mil-police-fire- the ones being paid by the banker/gvt scum to protect same) are called on to enforce the laws which were written to protect the statist loving banker/thugs and their leach fuck toadies.

 

Blood will be needed and blood it shall be.

 

Let's Roll , bitchez!

 

For the short-bus crowd, when one takes on any level of gvt they are taking on the bernank and his ilk.

 

 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:12 | 3053363 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

curtsy....................

Nothing comes from the top down in the manner you wish , are you just a shill for some banker/cunt?

 

The only way anything like you SAY you want gets done is when some banker fears violence is coming his way and biz maybe hurt.

 

If you are waiting for gvt to move out of some sense of fairness or morality then you do not understand anything about the history of this country.

 

Fear is a great motivator for change both at the bottom and the top!

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:07 | 3054305 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I beg to differ to coin a silly phrase .. the bankers create bullshit unpayable debts, they bribe politicians to commit economic treason against their own nation, they finance wars and make huge profits from it and float over to the winners side to destroy their nation over time,  just think of all the monetary inflation they hid behind the offshoring of productive industry in the country under the guise of 'cheap products'  ... so they do create stuff ... like suffering, bankruptcy, death, taxes, infrastructure decay and decay of the pride, joy and hopes of entire nations' workforce.. but I'm repeating myself

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:49 | 3053004 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

The domestic marxist insurrection, fomented by the likes of Andrew Stern, Richard Trumka, and Frank Marshall Davis, Jr. should be put down with force.

The MI governor should be ready to immediate activiate the MI national guard, the citizens' militia, and be ready to counter marxist violence with overwhelming militia force.

Marxists are primitives. Force is the only language they understand. Make them pay.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:54 | 3053032 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Hella Yea

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:39 | 3053244 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I think that stopping the welfare flowing would do more good. No need to be violent with them, just stop paying them and watch them do what happened in LA. They tore apart their own communities, not someone else's.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:31 | 3053421 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Well, they started it. An eye for an eye.  Folks tend to forget that collectivism *is* violence. That's the only point of it.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:57 | 3053319 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Nothing worth having is gotten without force , it only differs in the method.

 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:17 | 3054345 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

national guard to put down those damned workers and bankers laugh their asses off .. riiight

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:48 | 3053005 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Union bosses are just as corrupt and bribeabe as any coporate exec and washington douchebag.  When you worship at the altar of Hoffa.... Well really what else needs to be said.  No one is killing a union they are just not forcing someone to join a union.  If unions are so great everyone would want to join them and they won't die off.  They operate as if it's still the 1920's and never evolved.  I'm from a family of union folks and the way they got screwed by their union bosses and yet continued to do as they were told and just took it was mind boggling.  The nepotism in the unions were maybe the most disgusting.  So when is a union not a union.  Well when the union is led by thieves and crooks that look out for themselves and not their members meanwhile brainwashing their members into believing they are working in their best interest.  

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:49 | 3053007 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

and so....what was the point of having an election? None, other than a show to placate the peasantry. 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:03 | 3053337 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"elections" create "voters" - that's the point.

and voters take sides, and ignore facts to cheer their side winning - that's the point.

and side-takers divide their whole worlds into "my side/their side" while missing the point of the GAME.

that's the point.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:01 | 3053013 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I'm sure most still believe their lord and savior Barry O is doing all he can....

The good news is SOME of these folks will begin to wake the fuck up. 

"But there's a reason for this... because the owners, the REAL owners, the business interests, own you........ they got you by the balls, they aren't interested in you, they want OBEDIENT workers, with lower pay, vanishing pensions....... the game is rigged.... Good honest hardworking people continue to elect rich cock-suckers who don't give a fuck about them, they don't give a fuck about you, THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU, they don't care about you, at all, at all, AT ALL!"

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:49 | 3053014 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Bernank should be the target for the anger. But in general if any of the NWO elite are arrested and prosecuted as financial terrorists it will be a turning point. And quickly. They can walk away now pretty easily. But time changes things. Entropy will not stop. I don't know why.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:52 | 3053026 surf0766
surf0766's picture

All the communists are coming out. They can't control themselves now.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:55 | 3053035 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Tears well up in my eyes as I watch the moronic Ryukans fighting for the status quo.

 

It's the beginning of the end of this once great country.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:55 | 3053036 cabtrom
cabtrom's picture

Pethetic, fighting over peanuts like little pets.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 16:57 | 3053051 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Henry Ford fucked this for everyone when he had the shit beat out of union organizers.

Set the "them and us" precedent.

Fat cat union heads with no regard for the workers is what you end up with, just like government. 

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:44 | 3053462 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Henry Ford paid his workers better than anyone at the time.  He also tried to educate them through his paper about the threat of international jewry and banksters.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:26 | 3054978 Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

You give Henry Ford too much credit.  The steel mills hired the Pinkertons, the 19th century's version of Blackwater, to bust their unions.  And they weren't breaking any new ground themselves.  The powerful have been using force to subdue the powerless since god was a boy.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:00 | 3053056 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Union Klan in action.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:01 | 3053057 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

A very poor choice of location for Walmart to hold an AFP sale. What's an AFP, anyway?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:06 | 3053084 Opinionated Ass
Opinionated Ass's picture

American Freedom Pansies. (He didn't fight back too well, just sayin')

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:46 | 3053466 mumcard
mumcard's picture

He didn't look particularly worse for wear after 3 or 4 punches either.  If I hit someone 3 or 4 times and they're just standing there with their arms up then I wouldn't be bragging.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:10 | 3053101 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

I've got to freaking back it down a notch.  I read this as AFV and the first thing I thought was "I sure could use an old M113 or a Saracen". 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:03 | 3053076 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

hahaha.....we need more class warfare to show how amerikwans really do love each other.

like watching small children fight over toys

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:47 | 3053468 mumcard
mumcard's picture

No worries, you are leading the charge to educate the masses with your snarky comments on a web forum.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:05 | 3054505 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Yeah, I'm sure that's never happened before here

...idiot

Where did you think you were at?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:59 | 3054782 mumcard
mumcard's picture

Blow me moron.  You sounded so pious, does it get lonely at the top of Olympus?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:04 | 3053080 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Divide and conquer, continued. Cut this fucking snake off at the head.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:07 | 3053088 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

"This is how close the US is from violence at any one moment"

 

you mean like Occupy Wall Street? yea I dont remember them either. 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:20 | 3053149 XitSam
XitSam's picture

This ain't violence, wait until the EBT cards stop, that'll be violence.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:09 | 3053093 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Fox correspondent gets a lesson in why inciting crowds may be counterproductive?

Definitely not a good sign.  Glad it's going to get airplay, sad it's going to be through Fox.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:09 | 3053099 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Meanwhile the AP is reporting Sarah Jessica Parker is congratulating the EU for winning the Noble Prize and stating it is a blueprint for America.  "These last two elections in the US have been very hurtful to our nation"  WTF.  I suppose she wants to do away with elections all together and didn't realize that the US already has a single currency, one central banker and actually has a single federal government.  I wish she would just go back to TV and portray some whore as if it were a good thing and keep her stupid uninformed horseface shut.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:13 | 3053113 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

but... with celebrity comes great wisdom!

It's the new norm.

sigh.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:25 | 3053173 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

JAP

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:40 | 3053256 NitneLiun
NitneLiun's picture

Well, she was right about the last two elections being very hurtful to the U.S. But that probably isn't what she meant.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:26 | 3053415 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Yes, But she kicks ass on Tim Burtons Ed Wood. Throwing the pan at Johnny Depp's head is classic

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:10 | 3053102 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

This is another example of what our public education system is producing. No wonder much of our society has morally deteriorated to what it is today.  These idiots need to take a class on the Federal Reserve System and the effects of government market manipulation.  This is exactly what Obamma and his merry band of socialist pigs wants to see happen. 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:11 | 3053105 nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

that's the most work those good old boy have done in along time and without triple time, impressive

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:10 | 3053106 tongue.stan
tongue.stan's picture

Gotta admit it looks like great fun, kicking ass, taking names. I mean who wouldn't enjoy grabbing some pencil-necked geek by the collar and beating his brains out? Smart ass had it coming to him.

That being said, workers should have a choice about whether they want union dues taken out of their checks. Being forced to contribute to something is just plain wrong.

Wait, what's this FICA thing on my check? Ok, that's it, it's on motherfuckers!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:11 | 3053109 mademesmile
mademesmile's picture

The union members are protesting because they would be required to extend benefits to all employees regardless if they pay dues.

When it comes to "their" money, liberals quickly turn consertative.

 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:40 | 3053249 tongue.stan
tongue.stan's picture

The right-to-work measure prohibits requiring employees to join a union or to pay fees comparable to union dues to be employed.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:15 | 3053125 deus x machina
deus x machina's picture

why did it only take three of them to tear down a tentl.  when under union rules it takes 5 to change a light bulb?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:15 | 3053129 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

such a wide variety of ways to say 'power corrupts'.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:18 | 3053137 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Damn, I should have made popcorn for this one...

Just remember what Niemöller said...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:26 | 3053594 Shigure
Shigure's picture

...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:22 | 3053144 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Most of these people barely made it through high school.  Now, barely making it through life.  They know not what the cause for their dissatisfaction is, but BY GOD they'll sure fight to keep things the way they were. 

 

Things are NEVER going to be the same again.  Who or Whatever is running the Universal Simulation Program has turned the knobs for Chaos and Destruction up to '9'. 

 

Time has been sped up, as well.  Everything is breaking down at an ever increasing rate.  This really IS an ancestor simulation.

 

It appears we are rapidly approaching the point where it all 'went wrong', the point the algos are trying to decipher and (change?).

 

We are so fucked.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 18:13 | 3053370 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

you touch on a subject that rarely gets acknowledged here.

once upon a time, a man could get a job without even a "high school" education, and some of those jobs paid well via unions.  the complaint is that "illegals/women/whatever" have taken "all our jawbs" - when in fact, the great un-educated masses are not cost-effective going forward.  someone else took yer jawbs, and it isn't who you're told to believe.

no more jobs for the boys.

the finger pointing still there tho'

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:19 | 3053146 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Everybody please bust your asses for $ 7.25 an hour without beneifts and with the right to work for less!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:20 | 3053147 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Now I now what FORWARD means.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:24 | 3053169 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Yes, we were FOREWARNED as well.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:21 | 3053156 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Fucking great strip clubs in Lansing.  Wonder why that is?  HAHAHA

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:59 | 3053326 akhutch
akhutch's picture

Union strippers??

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:21 | 3053158 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

The only thing surprising to me is that some people are surprised by this.

 

PartysOver, the bar ran out of booze and the Entitlement Drunks are getting mad and violent.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:24 | 3053164 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Banksters rob from the top.

Unions rob from the bottom.

I have no appreciation for either.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:31 | 3053206 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I thought it was from the right and from the left. If its also. The top and bottom , well no fucking surprised that the walls, floor and ceiling have boxed the middle class in. Check mate !

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:24 | 3053171 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Poor, Poor, spoiled brats...........

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:26 | 3053177 Hal n back
Hal n back's picture

I heard there was a state vote on this and even only 41% of union workers wanted right to work state status--does the presidents mandate just work when convienent for his story line?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 17:27 | 3053180 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

"as workers no longer can fall back on savings"

 

since when could US workers fall back on savings? 40 years ago?  

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