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Jimmy Hoffa Warns Of "Civil War" As Michigan Governor Signs "Right-To-Work" Into Law

Tyler Durden's picture


Minutes before Michigan Governor Snyder signed the 'Right-To-Work' bill into law...


... Teamsters head Jimmy Hoffa appeared on CNN, as seen in the clip below, warning that:

"This is just the first round of a battle that's going to divide this state. We're going to have a civil war,"

as the bill to weaken unions' power is passed. If Hoffa is right, look for Michigan GDP to soar: after all it is one of the more Keynesian states in the union.

Via AP: Michigan Gov. Snyder signs right-to-work bills

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder has signed right-to-work legislation, dealing a devastating and once-unthinkable defeat to organized labor in a state that has been a cradle of the movement for generations.


He put his signatures on the bills Tuesday, hours after the state House passed the measures as the chants of thousands of angry pro-union protesters filled the Capitol.


Snyder says a failed ballot proposal to enshrine collective bargaining rights in the constitution triggered the discussion that led to the passage and signing of right-to-work.


During a news conference, he called the protests "an exercise in democracy."

Jim Hoffa, of the International brotherhood of Teamsters explains his perspective:


Via CNN:

Jimmy Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said Tuesday he expects Michigan unions and lawmakers to break out into "civil war" after the state legislature passed right-to-work bills that would weaken unions' power.


"This is just the first round of a battle that's going to divide this state. We're going to have a civil war," Hoffa said on CNN's "Newsroom."


The Republican-controlled state House passed two bills that had already been approved by the GOP-dominated state Senate. Gov. Rick Snyder, also a Republican, is poised to sign the bill, which would allow workers at union-represented employers to forgo paying dues.


As thousands of protestors gathered at the state capitol on Tuesday, Hoffa called the legislation a "tremendous mistake" and "a monumental decision to make" by outgoing lawmakers in a lame duck session.


"What they're doing is basically betraying democracy," he told CNN's Brooke Baldwin. "If there's any question here, let's put it on the ballot and let the people of Michigan decide what's good for Michigan."


Proponents of the legislation say it gives workers more freedom, while opponents say a less robust union presence will negatively affect workers’ rights. Hoffa also argued that those who don't pay union dues will be considered "free riders,” as they’re getting the same benefits from union representation without the cost.


Hoffa pointed to Michigan's recovering auto industry, saying the Wolverine State has bounced back from the recession without being a "right to work" state.


"This is basically a step backward," he argued.


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Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:12 | 3053535 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture

It's over, Jimmy. IT'S OVER!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:17 | 3053546 nc551
nc551's picture

He should make like his ancestor and disappear forever.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:29 | 3053608 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

The police, depended on for safety and security from this decision, belong to a union!

Firemen, teachers, some nurses, grocery workers....

It's definitely NOT over (see Wisconsin).

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:30 | 3053616 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Union fighting a civil war?  LOL.  Can just see it now, "OK guys, we're going to fight a war.  Now don't fight too hard, or get up too early.  And also, staging a protest in January or Feb is just too cold, so go watch NFL at home....."


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:37 | 3053642 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:51 | 3053696 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Let's see... a civil war is two or more gangs fighting for control of an area.

Yep, sounds about right.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:55 | 3053712 greensnacks
greensnacks's picture

If the union is strong enough, they should have no problem soliciting voluntary union dues. If they are weak, no civil war. Either way, no civil war.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:05 | 3053740 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

For the most part unions don't want merit based membership any more than they want merit based employment and salaries.  Thuggery, intimidation and loud mouthed drown outs have become the union way.   Pendulum has swung from one end of the spectrum--that of needing to protect workers from insane conditions--to the other, namely, the need to protect employers (and especially taxpayers!!) from insane demands and payouts.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:53 | 3053922 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Can't believe so many here are falling for this shit.

Union or banker, they are both subject to the same immutable law of human nature:

If we can get away with one, we will.

If reform is required (it is), then reform.

Oh, and lest we forget: The Weekend, brought to you by unions.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:13 | 3054030 margaris
margaris's picture

Not true, weekend brought to you by abrahamic religions!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:17 | 3054060 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Whooo! The one-day weekend!  Be still my beating heart...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:24 | 3054096 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

And don't we all miss the 14 hour workday in the mines?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:32 | 3054141 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep... and getting locked into your sweatshop is so much fun, esp. when the cigarette girl is working the floor...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:12 | 3054327 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Wow, you two should get a room!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:15 | 3054339 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Damned Free Shit Army.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:26 | 3054372 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

They're lucky they have Bronco on their side.

If it was any other group, like Texans declaring civil war, they would end up in a FEMA camp.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:27 | 3054378 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"We're gonna have a civil war! ......No, wait. It's raining. We'll start the war tomorrow."

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:59 | 3054480 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

Stupid union fucks. The worst part is, the general membership has no idea how badly they're getting played. Suckers. The politician in the video had it right -  if these thug  unions have a value proposition, they'll have no problem getting dues. If not, they'll have to evolve. That's what they're so afraid of. Free markets and free association are kryptonite to unions.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:12 | 3054540 fourchan
fourchan's picture

hoffa should have learned from his mob bosses.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:35 | 3054593 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

The Union won the last Civil War.

The union won't win this 'civil war'.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:17 | 3054884 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

p.s. thanks for throwing us some red meat, Tyler(s). 400+ comments - weez obviously hungray! :)

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:37 | 3054373 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The peasants are being told to get back to work.

I hope our new feudal lords are aware that the peasantry traditionally doesn't do jack from December through February, and that Christmas is a weeks-long drunken celebration were the peasants get to demand liquor and other treats from the rich people.


The new social contract is going to be a hoot.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:37 | 3054605 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep... then again a lot of those seeming to support that new contract never knew any better from personal experience. And that is abundantly clear...

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:13 | 3054686 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Screw the unions. They should be subject to market forces just like businesses and workers should be.


Unions are the Mini-Me to government.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:50 | 3054762 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Boss Tweed got to you already I see...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 00:16 | 3058388 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

boss tweed was a democrat

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:31 | 3059966 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So was Fernando Wood....

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:58 | 3054654 Jreb
Jreb's picture

I own a medium size business. I am working tonight after putting 10 hours in already (took a Zero Hedge break). A one day weekend is the norm. 52 to 60 hours a week is the norm. Some ass hat moron holding a wrench in one hand and his dick in the other who puts in 40 hours a week less breaks, lunches etc earns more than I do in salary. The unions can go fuck themselves - they may have served a purpose 100 years ago but their time has passed. If they want to exist they should have to compete for peoples business just like anyone else. If my staff tried to unionize I'd pull the plug on their asses so fast it would make their head spin. I'd liquidate my inventory and retire to some quiet South American kleptocracy. At least the theives there are honest about it.... Jimmy Hoffa and his friends can blow me.


There - that feels better....

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:41 | 3054742 jballz
jballz's picture


yeah we don't need unions because companies today would never put the labor force back to making what they pay all their empoloyees in China.

Because they are Americans, they will get a decent wage just because.

What a bunch of brainwashed dipshits. 

You mad because they make more than your worthless ass go get a fucking union job and earn what they do. 

Divide and conquer bitches, your ass will always belong to the bank.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:06 | 3054788 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Mr. Jballz,.

Don't get me started on the banks tonight. I have enough stress.

The issue isn't about fair wages or even the unions existance. I have no issues with the existance of unions. What I have issues with is the idea that people have no CHOICE as to whether or not they want to belong to them. We are supposed to have a little something called "Freedom of Association". Unions are legitimate only in so far as they do not force others to join them simply because they are associated by employment.

My experience (having been both and employee and an employer) is that unions do not necessarily garauntee better working conditions (depends of course on how you define "conditions" - read on). Many - the Teamsters esspecially - are self serving parasites - whom - if given a choice - would beat anyone who disagrees with them on any issue into a bloody pulp. They are self serving political entities. They are no better than the banking parasites that are sucking our country dry. Some one made a very intellgient post elsewhere here about "value added". I couldn't agree more. There are businesses that are parasitic too. Most of them are chrony businesses - most of the military industrial complex, banks etc fit into this class. So do the big automakers.

They suck money from the public trough like dirty whores and create nothing but msiery and suffering on a gargantuan scale. In the mean time the productive people in the world are stuck trying to pick up the pieces - we struggle to create value - to use capital to make people's lives better.

I employ about 10 people. The average wage in my facility is almost twice the minimum wage - I offer a health insurance/benefits program and vacation time for anyone who sticks around longer than two months. Most of my staff are long term and have been with me since the beginning. I think of them as family - I bonus them when there are profits and give them more flexibility in scheduling than they require. They know that no matter what happens to them in terms of their health and personal lives that I have their back. I car about them. Oddly enough - they seem to care about me too. They see when I am stressed - they insist I take breaks and do things like eat my lunch. They create value for me and I create value for them. The relationship is symbiotic. 

As for getting a union job - my problem - is a conscience. I tried it once (twice actually) and it didn't sit well with me. I cannot take orders from anyone I perceive as being dumber than me (a problem in most unions) and I cannot tolerate sloth, corruption or other general types of craziness (also a problem in both union jobs). Both times I worked in a union environment (when I was much younger) I noticed that most people did not get ahead on merrit but rather on backstabbing and politiking. I have a productive and creative brain. It couldn't handle the diseased environment so I quit and went into business.

And while I have been on this path for some time and still am earning less than most union employees I wouldn't go back for all the rice in China. Life is to short to be miserable. And until unions learn what the concept of freedom of association is all about I will continue to call them what they are "Corrupt Self Serving Parasitic Entities."

I may be poorer but at least I have a clear conscience.

And you can't put a price on that.


Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:02 | 3054852 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Super post Jreb.  I could not agree with you more.  I have dealt with 'Unions' for 20 years and the so called leadership are the abosolute worse lying scum I have ever dealt with.  Ironically, getting resolution with the actual workforce is achievable when all the facts are on the table.  The 'so called' professional unionist will sell their membership down the river for politcal reasons, idology, politics, self promotion and most importantly to keep coverage (membership) and therefore their income.  All the union leaders up the food chain where concerned about was to position themselves for political office and access to the government (salaries, expenses, housing, contacts and mega-pension).  The ultimate prize though is an appointment to the UN International Labour Organisation with a tax free salary, plus expenses and hookers in Switzeland (HQ) or some other location like NY.  The irony of this astounds me from such dedicated 'socialist'.  At home they lobby and promote legislation to extract taxes, impose useless rules and regulations and then take a 'gig' for a well paid, tax free job at the UN.  The ILO is the ultimate, worthless gravy train I have ever seen even more so than the Climate Change crew.

Another interesting tale is that over a beer the rank and file union organisers will confess that they are treated internally like shit.  However, they pay their dues, take the shit dished out to them and, if they survive, hope to make it up the food chain and an apoortunity to get some of the real gravy. Few make it, and those that stay, are really fucking dumb and lazy. Still it pays better than flipping fries at McD's which would be beyond their capability.

Fuck em and let the 'math' do it's work.....

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:14 | 3055017 jballz
jballz's picture


If that were the case, I would be entirely in agreement with you. It's a valid point on the voluntary status. But this is not the debate. There is a full court press on to eviscerate the unions. If you don't believe me watch Fox news coverage of this issue ot bounce around the dumber corners of the web. Hard core assault and I believe it is pure class warfare to get the working class to eat each other. Nobody gives a fuck about Detroit who doesn;'t live in Detroit. You have all the attention turned there and everyonetaking sides, like it is going to affect their lives in the slightest inn California if Detroit gets nuked tomorrow. It's all a distraction so the sheep will keep paying their mortgages to the asshole bankers and scream and yell that the guy turning a wrench should only be making 8 bucks an hour because they are.

You describe union work well. I have worked non-union and had the same experience. It's called a shitty job. 


"I tried it once (twice actually) and it didn't sit well with me. I cannot take orders from anyone I perceive as being dumber than me (a problem in most unions) and I cannot tolerate sloth, corruption or other general types of craziness (also a problem in both union jobs). Both times I worked in a union environment (when I was much younger) I noticed that most people did not get ahead on merrit but rather on backstabbing and politiking. I have a productive and creative brain. It couldn't handle the diseased environment so I quit and went into business."


No difference really at a non-union job, sorry. Different assholes, different neoptism, different corruption, different backstabbing. Less pay and fewer benefits. Some of us just have to be our own boss, and that is the point. You wouldn't do these people's job for the money they make. They ARE doing these jobs for the money they make. They suck at life, most of them. So what. You can't kill them, and they can produce something. What they also suck at is negotiating their worth. Most people do. They need someone to do that, or else the worst negotiators end up with the jobs (working the cheapest for their output). It's judgmental, petty jealous class envy bullshit that says average people shouldn't be able to have agents. Yeah it has problems, no shit. You ignore a huge piece of American history to give credence to the notion we don't need them though. Look at the world outside our borders.... the idea that yankees are just virtuous lucky super-skilled or whatever total fucking delusions held that make one think the middle class just spawned from nowhere and these other shithole countries we share borders with weren't so licky, it's wrong. Kill labor and we will be back in the 19th century fast as JP Morgan can get the 12 year olds back on the chain gang. 




Wed, 12/12/2012 - 11:22 | 3055800 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Mr. Jballz,

The downsizing of unions you are currently seeing (and by the way- I agree they are being dismantled) is a symptom of a greater disease. It is a symptom of our societies inability tol ive within it's means. The unions are being busted because the money they were promised never really existed. The good times are over. Giovernments and big corporations are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy - most are technically insolvent.

Over the past 30 or 40 years we in the workforce and in management have all been guilty of turning a blind eye to and believing in the big lie. We will all suffer the consequences in our own way. For workers -they will see reduced benefits, wages and job loss. For owners - we will experience a lack of profit and bankruptcy.

I have structured my company as best I can to weather the storm - to provide employment without layoffs and keep benefits in tact. I have begged my staff to live within their means and stay out of debt. I can only hope that whatever comes next does not sink me. I've done what I can.

The sooner we all realize a few things the better:

  • Keeping up with the Jones is not important - live within your means
  • Honor your contracts and don't offer more than can actually be provided - be honest
  • Capital and labor are both owners - of their time. They should respect each other
  • Getting out of this mess is not going to be easy

Good luck Mr. Jballz.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 07:53 | 3055127 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

What I have issues with is the idea that people have no CHOICE as to whether or not they want to belong to them. We are supposed to have a little something called "Freedom of Association". Unions are legitimate only in so far as they do not force others to join them simply because they are associated by employment


 When a "workforce" becomes "unionized" it is because the majority of that workforce VOTED to unionize (at that time). If you don't want to join  a unionized workforce you are quite free to work a plethora of non-union (low paying/no benefits/dangerous - unhealthy working conditions, etc) jobs (ie. THE FUTURE). To expect the PROTECTION FROM YOUR EMPLOYERS BULLSHIT the union provides without the responsibilities (membership, voting/attendance at union meetings) is childish/selffish.

 Are (some) unions corrupt? Of course, power corrupts (see the part above about union meeting attendance - most employees don't, makes it easier for corruption to "set in")! However, to destroy the workers ability to unionize, is to help the very oligarchs that are destroying EVERYONES standard of living.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 10:43 | 3055623 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Ah how cute... Who's a good little union lackey?

No one is destroying the workers right to unionize you jackass! The fact that you and your union masters keep repeating this lie just goes to show how bankrupt and antiquated your ideas truly are. Lemme guess, your pro choice for abortion, pro choice for gay marriage but anti choice when it comes to joining a union? Right? It pisses you clowns off that many people just don't believe what you do. You union fucks would make great taliban mohammadans. Forcing people to join a club that is completely out of sync with ones beliefs and forcing them to pay dues is just wrong.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 12:43 | 3056145 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

Ah how cute... Who's a good little union lackey?

Sorry, not a union member (self-employed), though I've worked in both enviroments (preferred the unionized (IT) shop but it was the minority of my work experience). As the union existed prior to my employment in that one instance, I had "no choice".

McWorkers MUST wear a uniform - no choice. So you'd be ok with employers FORCING RULES right?

No one is destroying the workers right to unionize you jackass!

Really? Which employer, pray tell, will hire unionized labour over non(ie cheap/unprotected)-unionized workers given the choice? Your local oligarch won't - race to the bottom of working conditions has commenced.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 00:20 | 3058398 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The owners make the rules you idiot. Unions don't own the business, they have no right telling the employees what to wear.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 10:57 | 3055677 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Democracy is nothing more than a tool for decision making within a given politcal framework. When democracy destroys or trumps the right of individual men and women to choose their own path it is nothing more than tyranny. Hitler had a majority too. Everything he did was "legal" and approved "democratically". If this the logic by which you live you are no better. 50 +1 does not = right.

If you reread my post my post you will see I do not have a problem with the existance of unions.... only with the manner in which they operate.


Wed, 12/12/2012 - 12:45 | 3056156 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

only with the manner in which they operate.

In that, we are agreed.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:54 | 3055009 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

I've never been in a union and always made a decent wage, so there goes your whole theory.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:18 | 3055021 jballz
jballz's picture


yeah you don't need a union to give bloejobs down at the dock do you. What are you making 20 a shot?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 17:31 | 3057387 akak
akak's picture

You seem familiar with the market.  Interesting.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 00:22 | 3058401 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

pissed that your ballz got blasted out the water? you union chimps are pathetic

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 12:13 | 3056007 Obaminator
Obaminator's picture

Jreb - Im with you 100%.

I see we have some Union Sympathizers on this site - claiming that (om my god) we would have no weekends without them, and the workers would all just be slaves locked in sweatshop rooms...HAHA - LABOR Laws have TAKEN CARE OF THAT you friggin fools!

I own a biz too and if they had to unionize and pay the Union wages and fees and pensions and pay for their tampons and fucking whatever else let me tell you what would happen - I wouldnt even need to pull the plug, MY CUSTOMERS would tell ME to go Fuck myself and would BUY FROM Someone else....Oh wait -

Thats whats already happened to HALF of my existing vendors out in California!!!

Unions had their day...For the MINES and the Steel Refineries and the Heavt Rail and Waterway Construction Back in the Day WHEN NO LABOR LAWS EXISTED and companies EXPLOITED people like slaves.

Cant do it anymore, which is good.

Now You Union Fuck-Thugs, claiming Blood...Bring that shit. Really..I have a LOT of Non-Union Folk more than willing to throw down if it comes to that...Yeah some of you Teamsters are some Big Mfokers, but I can assure you, there are a LOT MORE Big MFokin Non-Union Beasts willing to rise to the challenge...your teachers and restaraunt workers wont stand a chance, punk ass sissies!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 18:16 | 3057510 The worst trader
The worst trader's picture

Most of us small business owners have been working seven days a week just to survive. So fuck you

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:13 | 3054332 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Which Weekend?  The one starting next Friday, 12/21/12?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 20:09 | 3057818 John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

"The Weekend, brought to you by unions."

- Some Dumb Cunt

Bullshit. All improvements in working conditions and wages, brought to you by higher marginal productivity due to capital investment. Mob violence and higher unemployment, brought to you by unions.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:44 | 3054193 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

"For the most part unions don't want merit based membership any more than they want merit based employment and salaries."

I've mentioned this  before and will again.  I'm a Union Industrial Painter.  I typically work on hard and dangerous projects.  Bridges,  Overpasses,  Water Towers,  storage tanks,  locks & damns,  refineries,  power plants/stacks   etc.

I work primarily for a company based out of St.Louis,  MO.  I and the majority of the men I work with are go getters.  If not they quickly make their way to top of the lay off / don't call back  list.  We work hard and often in dangerous situations.  I've skipped many breaks and will skip many more.  In comparison with Unions in general Craft Unions there are striking differences.  No doubt places like NYC,  CHI  Detroit,  Boston,  etc. do a fine job of making Craft Unionism look bad.

No doubt my union culture is quite different from that which prevails in most areas.  Sadly within the scope of IUPAT(painters union) the type of culture I'm a part of falls in the minority.  It pretty much comes down what part of the Country.  Modest Midwest here ;) 

I'm currently in New Orleans finishing The Huey P. Long bridge.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:13 | 3054322 buckethead
buckethead's picture

I won't junk a man for talking sense. I was a teamster for about a year. Not by any choice other than accepting employment at a particular company. I had a less than wonderful experience with the union, which I detailed in another thread (thuggish behavior). It seemingly got deleted, but I did drop an F-bomb. Something I see here regularly. Perhaps that has become taboo.


Unions have simply consumed too much from the host. The host is not capital. The host is the economy. (even a micro-economy within a sector) Capital is just as parasitic as labor when it can pull it off. Adding value is what creates wealth. Capital adds value, labor adds value... just don't extract more value than you add... everything works better.

If you speak truthfully, and I believe you do, your union (or at least that portion which you participate) is adding value. Well done.


Teamsters are a 'whole nuther' story.


Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:13 | 3054687 gtb
gtb's picture

I sure as fuck hope Tyler isn't censoring the fucking posts.  That would really fucking blow.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:13 | 3054797 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

You can say FUCK all you want on these threads.....

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:08 | 3054827 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Yep, you can say what the fuck you want on ZH.  It's the NSA, aka, Skynet you need to be concerned about.

/Drone on FORWARD!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 04:58 | 3055011 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

I could get them in trouble with their ad provider, however, so censor yourself if you want to keep the site going.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 10:01 | 3055414 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Thinking back, I menetioned the company, the specific union, and my version of the events which transpired. Maybe there were concerns of libel? I see some pretty inflamatory stuff here... My post seemed mild.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:39 | 3054428 gramps
gramps's picture

You just pointed out the problem with unions like uaw or public sector unions. "I and the majority of the men I work with are go getters.  If not they quickly make their way to top of the lay off / don't call back  list." I work in the motion picture industry and have a union job. Difference is my union doesn't gaurantee me a job. It negotiates my wage and benefits. That's it. When you take away the employers RIGHT to hire and fire as they please, that is when you run into major problems.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:00 | 3054490 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Do you do a better job because you're in a union? Are you safer because you're in a union? Something else better? Truly curious.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:23 | 3054708 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

To your first question I have to answer no. 

Drawing from my own experience and that of which has been shared with me by others who have worked both there is no significant difference.  There are safety orienated as well as those who are not so much within union and non union alike.

I can't speak from personal experience having never worked Industrial Painting for a non union contractor.  Going from guys I know who have there is both good and bad as to be expected.  The Greeks for instance tend to pay prevailing wage all on your paycheck without the benefits.  That can be more of a benefit when it comes to health insurance as well as preparing yourself for the future.  More money up front that one might invest in something such as gold ;).  Considering there can be a significant slowdown evry winter minus any traveling work(which I do a lot of) it is a con being union.  You lose your insurance for having lack of hours or pay an arm and a leg via COBRA. 

I am certainly not against a man who decides to do either.  I am open to such a move myself if the right circumstances arose. 

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:27 | 3054718 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Hey Nikao7, about what percent of a union guy's pay goes to union dues?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 06:16 | 3055059 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

It's about an hour's pay a month or a little more for the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers).  I used to be a member in Texas, a right to work state.  We had a no strike clause in our contract so we couldn't be foolish and try to destroy the company.  Only about half of us were members but the Union did get us better benefits and slightly better wages than we would have had otherwise.  The Union negotiated for pay and benefits for members and non members.  Both sides liked it that way.  I think Hoffa is wrong and only wants more money for himself.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:22 | 3054727 ACP
ACP's picture

There's the rub, you work for a private company. If the employees demand too much from the company (assuming no posible bailouts), the company fails. Some folks realize that, and as we've seen lately with Hostess, some people don't. Not to say the corrupt, incompetent management didn't have a big hand in the company's failure.

It appears the culture of the public unions is to suck the host dry and demand tax increases until the system breaks, like in Vallejo, CA. The police union voted against paycuts, forcing the city to lay off cops with less time in service, instead of taking pay cuts to save jobs. Pure selfishness. Basically, the taxpayers get screwed twice (once by high salaries and another by high crime after bankruptcy). This whole debate focuses on the ability for the govt-public union symbiosis to ruin taxpayer finances. Unionized private workers have a vested interest in not going too far (generally speaking).

Edit: My belief is that the free market will take care of worker's rights now that state and federal laws include so many protections for employees...IF we had a free market. Howard Schultz knew that the best way to keep employees happy and non-union was to offer very basic health benefits (interesting that he's no longer an Obama fan). Walmart will always be fighting because of their "more bodies" approach. I no longer go anywhere near Walmart, after encountering a worker who couldn't speak English, here in the US. Toyota and Honda are examples of corporations that know how to keep their employees happy and non-union. Look at the (relative) success Starbucks, Honda and Toyota have enjoyed without union shops. Edit: Correction, Starbucks is semi-union, but loud noises are nearly non-existent.




Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:09 | 3054795 JeffB
JeffB's picture

I'm from the St. Louis area as well, and what you say matches up with my experience as well. My father-in-law was a union carpenter and I know he's a very hard and competent worker. They got their money's worth when he or his brother were on the job.

His son tells me, however, that when he's contracting jobs in New York, they have to add another 30% or so to the bids because of all the union shenanigans and in-fighting. One union will put in a lot of work and another will tear it all out some evening to prove a point. They just consider it a cost of doing business in New York. Chicago is another crooked area that cost a lot more to get anything done.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:15 | 3053762 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

They want to fight a war against the government and taxpayers, but they want the government to collect their membership dues by law and deduct it directly from paychecks. They know 75% of their brothers wouldn't pay their dues in an honor system format.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:20 | 3053778 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Bring it on little man. I seriously doubt he even knows how to load a gun.

Besides, he does not even lift :)

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:35 | 3053839 economics9698
economics9698's picture

This asshole is seriously slamming the education systems of Mississippi and Alabama while Detroit is certifiably the worst education system in America?

What balls this asshole has.

Oh and economically unions cannot increase living standards.  Only capitalism and producing more stuff increases living standards. 

Unions increase wages at the expense of unemployment, wages of nonunion workers, investment capital, dividends, profits, and other areas.

Economically unions are thieves stealing from the host company sometimes resulting in death.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:48 | 3053899 john39
john39's picture

too bad capitalism is basically purely academic...   it doesn't exist.     this is all about divide and conquer.  The wealth of the United States was stolen...  now they crash and burn the country to hide their tracks.   let the little people fight over scraps and leftovers while the bankers and the big corps feast.....  

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:14 | 3054556 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Don't forget your UNION FAT CAT buddies....

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:53 | 3053923 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

GOVERNMENT Unions...yes. PRIVATE Unions...I would argue no. The interest of say "an electricians union" is to have good electricians...yes? Where else would their dues come from? On the other taxing the shit out Unionized electricians so that they can pay for...million dollar salaries for say...the now suicides Dean of St Johns University who was cavorting with gangsters and the like...I agree there might be some room for "something other than total war" type debate here.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:40 | 3054176 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Even FDR knew that public sector unions should not exist. They are anathema to fair negotiations. Politicians and union bosses determine the pay and benefits while the taxpayers who pay the bill are not at the negotiating table. Politicians give unions sweet deals and unions give politicians votes; an incestuous crooked partnership.

Private sector unions have priced themselves right out of their jobs and companies move oversees. It's too bad we can't outsource all of the bloated and ineffective public sector workers.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:55 | 3053927 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

"Those state who do not have right to work have thrived"

"The ones that do have right to work like Mississippi or Alabama or Texas end up being the last in education, the last in people making having good jobs."

What a lying sack of shit.

Yes no jobs in Texas Jimmy, stay the fuck away.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:12 | 3054538 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

yep Texas sucks , it's hot the food is shit all the women are fat and we don't shower regular stay away..

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:14 | 3054551 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

I forgot we donts reads to goog eather...

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:12 | 3054877 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Tactical, Sounds like your alredy unionized.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:07 | 3053996 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Jimmy should go look for his old man like OJ was gonna look for Nicole's killers.  These people are mobsters - literally.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:10 | 3054014 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Their day is coming.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:25 | 3054105 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:04 | 3054504 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The true killers are hiding in the Nevada State Prison System and OJ is hot on their tail.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:19 | 3054563 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

+1 I saw what you did there! ;)

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:09 | 3054519 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:00 | 3053952 natty light
natty light's picture

"The auto industry is coming back..."

Channel stuffing works until it doesn't.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:32 | 3054586 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Yes.  Like stuffing treasury bonds into the Fed balance sheet "channel"...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:25 | 3053792 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

the dirty little secret let out of the bag by these "brave" politicians who stood up to the union is ; they DO know how to end corruption and other ills caused by unlimited now we are completly aware, that they are completly aware of how to end the corruption in that nasty leaking asshole better known as washington dc....

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 13:37 | 3056350 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

They continue to travel down the road to ruin. Government HAS to change it's ways. Go back to the path of liberty!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:43 | 3054190 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

A union war on calories might be a good place to start.  Is it just me or are most of the union goons we see almost morbidly obese?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:57 | 3054262 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Any cross section of the American public is morbidly obese; it's not strictly relegated to union members.  ;)  You should see the tubbos in my area.  It's ridiculous...I see SUVs parked at the curb of the grocery store to let some 500 pound fat sack out right at the door so they don't have to walk that whole 40 feet across the parking lot.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:03 | 3054663 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Where's Michelle O'Marshall Davis Jr. when her comrades need her?  Probably on a vacay in Spain, I suppose.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:21 | 3054703 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I asked a fat person if they liked carrying around 50 cans of Crisco all the time.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:12 | 3054880 akak
akak's picture

You damned criscoist!

Don't you know that's a hate crime?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:00 | 3054494 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Chrysler "worker" goons go on their local Quickie Mart/7-11 on their lunch break.  It usually consists of a quart of beer or malt liquor and some pot.  Maybe the pot gives em all the munchies.   

People like Hoffa have fine lunchs and dinners. During the day they sit on their fat a*s all day thinking up new scams and new people to shake down.  They are SCUM.  

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:01 | 3054863 Whats that smell
Whats that smell's picture

We all like freedom here right? If they want to have a beer on their Unpaid lunch who the F are you to squawk 'bout it? Do your stupid lard ass middle managers have some drinks at the golf course? Fuck You Moron!!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:57 | 3053717 macholatte
macholatte's picture


Arrest Hoffa!

2010 Michigan Compiled Laws
Act 302 of 1968 - RIOTS AND RELATED CRIMES (752.541 - 752.546)
Section 752.542 - Inciting to riot.


It is unlawful and constitutes incitement to riot for a person or persons, intending to cause or to aid or abet the institution or maintenance of a riot, to do an act or engage in conduct that urges other persons to commit acts of unlawful force or violence, or the unlawful burning or destroying of property, or the unlawful interference with a police officer, peace officer, fireman or a member of the Michigan national guard or any unit of the armed services officially assigned to riot duty in the lawful performance of his duty.



USCTitle 18Part IChapter 102 › § 2101 18 USC § 2101 - Riots

(a) Whoever travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses any facility of interstate or foreign commerce, including, but not limited to, the mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, or television, with intent—

(1) to incite a riot; or (2) to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot; or (3) to commit any act of violence in furtherance of a riot; or (4) to aid or abet any person in inciting or participating in or carrying on a riot or committing any act of violence in furtherance of a riot;
and who either during the course of any such travel or use or thereafter performs or attempts to perform any other overt act for any purpose specified in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D) of this paragraph—  [1]

Shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:30 | 3053820 Jacque Itch
Jacque Itch's picture

NDAA bitchez!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:22 | 3054086 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:55 | 3054241 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

selectively enforced.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 20:26 | 3057863 John Wilmot
John Wilmot's picture

The police have been tolerating union violence for as long as there have been unions. Many of those famous episodes of union-related riots in the 19th century pitted unions against private security firms, not police. Why? Because usually the owners couldn't get the local police to do anything about the workers, either because the police were too afraid or because they were sympathetic.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:16 | 3053763 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

sorry dude...not my labor has to burn...union rules...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:59 | 3054479 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

And I am not allowed to load my own bullets, the guy from the AMOUW must do it for me, but not till after the 10:00 AM coffee break, oh and the guy that pulls the trigger is on vaca this week, at least the new guy who aims the gun is here, but he doesnt have enough hours in to be qualified yet in a true battle, so he is on the bench over there reading up more on proper techniq.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:07 | 3054517 ZeroFreedom
ZeroFreedom's picture

They will not fight a civil war. They have to many work rules and requirements. Probably will find a judge to favor their side.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 13:35 | 3056338 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

We are traveling down a very very scary road. Change has to come.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 18:22 | 3057537 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

How many union members will stand around and watch while one guy "fights" the civil war?

And, will they have to take a 15 minute break each hour, cause its in the contract?

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:33 | 3053625 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

we need a taxpayers union in this country. unite and revolt against these thieving cocksuckers!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:22 | 3054091 margaris
margaris's picture

Also: a home-schooling union, don't let the government eat our childrens brains!


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:56 | 3054257 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Be sure to load up on Genesis as one-size-fits-all science program....

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:57 | 3054649 keesooi
keesooi's picture

I love Genesis!

Peter Gabriel was the bomb in that band, saw them in the 70's, awesome show.  So why all these downvotes?

PS:  The one-size-fits-all schooling refers to the government kiddie prisons schools, I presume?


Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:06 | 3054673 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

LOL, the greatest scientist of all time, Newton, was also a Christian theologian.

Furthermore, almost all of science as we know it originated in a quadrilateral with vertices at London, Paris, Vienna, and Berlin. Christendom, of course.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:54 | 3054769 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And more than a few Jews in there as well...

And Newton was not classic Christian...

You do know the story of Laplace and Napoleon re: Mechanique Celeste?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:17 | 3054887 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

FORWARD Flakmeister.

Really, what the fuck are you doing here, do you also believe in AGW Climate 'Science'.... Krugman 'Economics'... the GUBERMENT nows best, The Prez's 'Noble' peace prize... I could go on.

Adopt a 'Drone'... Dronie needs you more than 'Elmo'

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:30 | 3054895 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I have been here longer than you and will likely be here long after you are gone...

Dealing with pissants like you has never been an issue....

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 03:09 | 3054915 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Fair enough, then I am sure on many things we would agree on.  I'm of view that organised labour, in this context, is also part of the problem.  If, as you say, you have been a member since ZH's early days and intend to stay you will have read enough to be aware of all the issues so I apologize for ranting on the basis of one post.  I'll also be staying as long as this site is allowed to 'exist'.... it is the most single most useful source of information around and the posts are an added bonus, a great source of further information, debate, sarcasm and even entertainment.  Where though is Professor Hammy!

Good luck to ya, we are all gonna need it, wherever you are in the world.


Wed, 12/12/2012 - 05:15 | 3055018 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

You can no longer obey the laws of the United States Government and the God of the Bible. ObamaCare forces you to pay for abortion, murder. If you believe in the Bible, you cannot pay taxes, period. Yeah, the liberals love to quote, "Give to Caesar..." but you do not owe your soul to Caesar, you owe it to God. Daniel refused even when threatened to be thrown in to the lion's den, and into the fire. The US Government will throw you in prison or kill you.

Do. Not. Pay. Taxes.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:46 | 3053660 becky quick and...
becky quick and her beautiful mouth's picture

i live in wisconsin. trust me, it's over. NOBODY here cares about this other than

a) bussed in union thugs from other states

b) maybe 30-40% of the teachers, TOPS

c) maybe 50-60% of cops and firemen, TOPS

the entire rest of the state could give 2 shits about "union rights."

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:52 | 3053701 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Hoffa's blowing hot air. All "sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:36 | 3053847 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

If my travels through the great state of Wisconsin and the "We stand with Scott Walker" signs EVERYWHERE are an indication, that is correct.

I used to do a lot of work with non-union mfg. in Michigan. I also did a fair amount with the "big 3" on shop floors. 

The difference in brainpower and ethic defines my recollection of experience with the two factions. 

The support structure (tooling/mfg) for the big 3 is mostly non-union and the same for energy/aerospace/defense.

I dont' recall the "non's" declaring they had to go "prepare" for break, ever.




Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:29 | 3054126 Freddie
Freddie's picture

What is also sick is these scum stole the election for obama in the swing states.  I know red team blue team and I think the whole thing was a scam and Romney was there to take a dive.

Still WS and MI did not go for the dear Mullah.   The good news is the peopel of WS and MI are standing up to these organized criminals.   Their ilk destroyed Detroit and other Midwest cities.  Gary, IN plus others.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:30 | 3054133 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Still living that fantasy?

Any competent pollster or analyst know what was going to happen in the swing states...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 22:22 | 3054361 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

You've obviously never been to Gary, In!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:10 | 3054529 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well I have read Dante's Inferno.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:28 | 3054581 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

On a clear day I can smell Gary, from the West.

I rode my motorcycle through Gary (proper) once.


Had to get off of I-94 because of a tornado.

Gary makes 7 mile look like Manhattan.

For future refernece, tornado > Gary.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:50 | 3054614 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Ever been to the Indiana Dunes?

Nothing like watching a toxic creek drain into the lake with a nuke on one side and US Steel on the other....

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:54 | 3054647 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Alas, "Common ground".

Don't forget the refineries.

"Swim advisory".



Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:06 | 3054668 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

"Breathe Advisory"

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:18 | 3054699 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

I covered that earlier.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:06 | 3053743 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Police and Firemen are specifically excluded from this law.

(Not that I agree...just reporting facts, which you have failed to properly observe.)

P.S. Go jump off a bridge.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:56 | 3054256 10mm
10mm's picture

I got news for ya dick nuts.Cop's cannot strike and they are not union.What they are no diff than goons in military are saps in uniform who do not realize they are cannon fodder.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:25 | 3054712 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

It's a black ball cap with two big ass WW's on the front.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 07:01 | 3055099 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Who depends on the police for safety and security? Honestly ...

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:29 | 3053610 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Union fighting a civil war?  LOL.  Can just see it now, "OK guys, we're going to fight a war.  Now don't fight too hard, or get up too early.  And also, staging a protest in January or Feb is just too cold, so go watch NFL....."



Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:31 | 3053618 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Not to mention, most of them hate guns with a passion.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:53 | 3053920 CH1
CH1's picture

most of them hate guns with a passion.

I think you are confusing what they say with what they do. I've known lots of union members - they were NOT enemies of guns.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:24 | 3053788 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Its like 8 guys sit around and watch one guy shoot? Good luck with that Teamsters. Wolverines!!!

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:31 | 3054138 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  Feed that fat little gangster shit Hoffa, wearing his leather jacket to hide his gut, to the Wolverines.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:30 | 3053818 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

You miss the humor in the previous post and the one word reply from you just makes his point even more humorous. You can't even make a coherent rebuttal. That would take too much thought and effort. You are most likely one of the guys in your union crew that we, the public, see standing around while others work. You can't muster a thoughtful rebuttal but you are somehow going to muster up a civil war?

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:51 | 3054765 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

In a parallel universe, the Union Army was unionized and the South handily won the War of Southern Secession.

Like in the book, The Probability Broach, by L Neil Smith.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:58 | 3054780 akak
akak's picture

Wow, haven't read a reference to that book in a LONG time!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 01:20 | 3054803 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I bet you got a little stiffy reading it....

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:10 | 3053753 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

In case Jimmy missed the memo:



That is all..

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:49 | 3053902 oldman
oldman's picture


I knew his dad, and never knew a more stand-up guy. If he is half the man his father was there will be a war, except for the fact that real people will come to Hoffa's side.

Jimmy Sr. was murdered because he was a stand-up leader and people would follow him anywhere. He was not murdered for any other reason than the threat that he and his union posed to the powerful fascistic forces---what you refer to as 'tptb'. All of this is a part of my personal history so naturally I become a little defensive in reading an ignorant opinion regarding the type of amerikan who no longer exists---except, HOPEFULLY, his son.

Respectfully                  om


BTW --- several years ago I heard a story from an ex-fed prison dude that Jimmy Hoffa was given a new identity and was being moved through the fed system, a few nights here--a few nights there until ready to relocate. I could never believe this, but hope that it is true----a lot of working people never had the opportunity to thank Jimmy Hoffa.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:38 | 3054163 Freddie
Freddie's picture

He was murdered because he associated with organized crime which could be:

a. His union.

b. Mobsters who control his union

c. The Moe Green types who count the union money

d. The Democrat Party

e. Other politicians

f. Union lawyers

g. Pension plan managers who manage union money like The JP Morgue

h. All of the organized crime members listed above


The correct answer is H or ALL of the above.


BTW - stand up guys do not physically attack their opposition, pull knives and pull down tents on people.  These ***kers are thugs who rip off taxpayers and the rank and file.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:58 | 3054268 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture


.. speaking as one who would not return to his 'home state' with that union BS in place ... 

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 21:53 | 3054233 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Sorry old man but your time has come and gone. You need to rethink who you pay allegiance and loyalty to. JH Sr was a corrupt thug who only cared about money by shaking down business and his "brothers". He was murdered, dismembered and fed to pigs, a practice that is used far too sparingly to deal with his ilk if you ask me.

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 02:27 | 3054896 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Thankfully some sense on the true fate of a workers hero, Mr Hoffa, from the Ministry of Truth.  Welldone Oldman the party is pleased.

/O'Brien (Ingsoc)

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:35 | 3054597 Dixie Rect
Dixie Rect's picture

Less than 11% of the workforce are in a union. Hell, more than 20% are unemployed or under employed. By sheer numbers, it's over for Jimmy and his thugs.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:46 | 3053669 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Did you see the Union "THUGS" in the video - what a bunch of lard asses.  They are no threat whatsoever, blowhard crybabies all.

Just give me an Aluminum baseball BAT and the problem will be solved.

You want a war Mr. Hoffa - bring it.

Check the our taking swings at Steven Crowder.  Mr. Crowder does a wicked female impersonation and is Canadian.  I don't think he is really a scrapper since he swung at the guy at least five times and did not land a punch - like a girl.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:49 | 3053689 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Baseball bat? You don't think they've got guns?


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 19:52 | 3053702 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Union members are good liberals and don't believe in firearms - considering that the are deeply democratic.

The union members know the easiest way to get the cops out is start shooting - this won't go to firearms.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:02 | 3053729 CPL
CPL's picture

The quarterly statements of the very profitable trade of small arms and munitions manufacturing would like you to review that statement.  The largest adopters of small arms with the last four years have been anyone with a bit of common sense that at least having the training to hit the side of a barn and having something on hand to provide a modicum of resistance is needed.

Right now nobody is sure what to think anymore.  Union or not, the 100% failure rate is guarenteed for both the owners and the employees.


They are all getting paid in US dollars.  The best looking horse in the glue factory.  So whether anyone wants to be distracted from the real news of greenbacks flowing back into the US faster than ever before, hey...who cares.


Both parties have proven themselves to be dirt bags that mishandle or misspend everyone's resources, let them tear each other apart.  We'll sell tickets and make bets.  Screw'em, they are part of the side show circus now for the five minutes that people will care.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:12 | 3053756 centerline
centerline's picture

This is all part of the script.  This is in part how blame will be passed onto the people and the masses will tear each other apart.  So easy, a caveman could do it.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 23:30 | 3054583 CPL
CPL's picture

The dance is mind numbingly predictable.  You get a bunch of people like that running a temper, half the people interviewed for left and right broadcasts sound like they want to pick a fight.  It's a recipe for stupid.


Cameras everywhere

A Hoffa playing a fiddle

Factory owners playing a fiddle.

Guys with signs that look like they are for the most part part of an Italian gentleman's club.


Tue, 12/11/2012 - 20:48 | 3053889 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

You sir are an idiot!!!

Wed, 12/12/2012 - 00:35 | 3054726 knukles
knukles's picture

Every single union member in the Great State of Michigan whether auto or any other, makes an annual pilgrimage to hunt at some point during the year.
And they don't do so with spears, rocks and sling shots.
They're big time charley gun hunting people.
And don't start on about the city workers, for in the cities of MI, the Big Urban Cities, everybody owns a handgun for self defence.


(full disclosure; originally from Michigan)

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