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4th Amendment Over: Public Buses Adding Microphones To Record Conversations

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Believe it or not the article itself is actually a lot worse than even the title implies.  These microphones are in many cases being coupled with cameras in order to gain an even greater level of surveillance.  All with grants from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).  Now honestly, does anyone really think this is for Al Qaeda?  This is a great follow up to my piece from last week titled:  Coming to Your Car: Mandatory Black Boxes That Record Everything.

From Wired:

Transit authorities in cities across the country are quietly installing microphone-enabled surveillance systems on public buses that would give them the ability to record and store private conversations, according to documents obtained by a news outlet.


The systems are being installed in San Francisco, Baltimore, and other cities with funding from the Department of Homeland Security in some cases, according to the Daily, which obtained copies of contracts, procurement requests, specs and other documents.


The systems use cables or WiFi to pair audio conversations with camera images in order to produce synchronous recordings. Audio and video can be monitored in real-time.


In Eugene, Oregon, the Daily found, transit officials requested microphones that would be capable of “distilling clear conversations from the background noise of other voices, wind, traffic, windshields wipers and engines” and also wanted at least five audio channels spread across each bus that would be “paired with one or more camera images and recorded synchronously with the video for simultaneous playback.”

The 4th Amendment is dead.  I repeat, the terrorists won.


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Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:31 | 3059366 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Agreed, the terrorists won...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:37 | 3059396 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Not like we need more reasons for not riding in a public bus...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:38 | 3059404 john39
john39's picture

skynet going on line....  for your protection of course.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:51 | 3059458 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"The 4th amendment is dead"

No - It is America that is DEAD!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:59 | 3059529 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

What's the big deal? 

"I've done nothing wrong so I've got nothing to hide." 

Or how about this gem?

"As long as it makes me feel safer, I don't care what they do!"

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:05 | 3059553 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

"I've heard things that will blow your mind"


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:51 | 3060961 trav777
trav777's picture

you think it's bad now?

Obama wants to equalize punishment rates for different races of kids in schools.  Disparate impact and all of that.  Surely, criminal prosecution rates are next for adjustment.

If you're asian, don't ever open your mouth, anywhere, ever.  You imagine how many asian kids they will have to suspend for chewing gum or dropping a pencil to get things all leveled out?

There's some ordinance that you are violating right now and don't even know it...everyone is.  And these bus cameras won't be used to hear racial epithets in these cities where gangs of worldstarhiphoppers beat up people without color...that will just be "random violence."  It'll eventually have to be used against the people who CARE about getting sent to prison but who aren't doing the marxists the favor of committing crimes at the same rates as protected classes.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:51 | 3061075 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That's all well and good, but can you please explain for me how Negro stupidity results in American-brewed beer being so bland and lousy?

It'd be far more relevant.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:08 | 3059563 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:36 | 3059744 HardwoodAg
HardwoodAg's picture

You could say that again.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:23 | 3059942 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

After face recognition software, voice recognition software needs to remove some kinks. for your safety.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:49 | 3060030 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:11 | 3060097 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

If you put infrared LEDs into a baseball hat all those cameras can see is a brightness where your face belongs.  

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:14 | 3060109 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

It used to be. Now software put a dot on the source of IR-LED to block the glare.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:42 | 3060201 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

My next suggestion would be to assume the veil of a Saudi woman.  

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:05 | 3060586 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Now software put a dot on the source of IR-LED to block the glare.

Yeah? So what happens when you light your fucking head on fire? They have to ID you with a fucking dentist - that's what.

Make 'em work for it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:18 | 3060628 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

We're all terrorists now, so therefore who has really won?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:49 | 3060955 Drachma
Drachma's picture

Don't forget gait recognition software. All put together, that's some biometric signature. For your safety of course.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:08 | 3059565 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:10 | 3059577 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Before we all die off, we ought to tell the younger generation that the police motto used to be "To Protect and Serve" -- how quaint that was.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:29 | 3059705 kralizec
kralizec's picture

To Punish and Enslave

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:41 | 3059776 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

All that $ to eavesdrop on Obama-loving hippies riding public transit in Eugene, OR. Un-fucking-believeable.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:13 | 3059905 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

911 has flipped all the rules and the term "homeland security" is a cool Orwellian trick. The very thing that should be recorded, government transactions re: waterboards, corporate boards, and oil hoards are now protected from disclosure. Private conversations and anything inside the home is now fair game   

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:14 | 3060107 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Yes.  When do you suppose they will start rounding up ter ro rist s?  Do you suppose they will let us bring a toothbrush?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:39 | 3060480 MonsterBox
MonsterBox's picture

Sure. How else are we to clean their toilets?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:06 | 3061268 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

Speaking of toilets...  I used to be halfway paranoid about urinals with autoflush sensors for detecting presence of bodies.  Thinking was along the lines of, "How hard would it be to install in those sensors minicams for recording my impressive hawg when it's out of its cage?"  I mean, who wouldn't want to see it and have a recording for posterity?  Now I have to worry about public transportation as well?  Good grief..  Just hope my BMW convertible doesn't break down.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:30 | 3059960 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Where I'm at, the jokes on them, as the buses are EMPTY!!

The idiots they hire to design the routes couldn't produce a coherent one if their life depended on it. Whether this is all due to them, or the political directives they follow, it's hard to tell.

They don't even run the buses both directions on ANY route, so it is impossible to go somewhere and return without riding the entire route. At least they got smart enough to approve advertising on the buses, so now you can't see that it is empty, as they've covered the windows with silk-screening.

But hey, other than spending (and losing) millions per year, how else could I have this valuable public service of rolling, polluting billboards?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:42 | 3060004 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Fill in the blanks.


Congradulations to all fellow americans for making this country a ------------ country.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:17 | 3060118 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

"To Serve and Protect" has become "To Harass and Collect" if you ask me.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:00 | 3060295 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

to observe and collect

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:48 | 3060024 midtowng
midtowng's picture

America might be dead, but its body has been reanimated and is now walking around eating brains.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:25 | 3060896 ajax
ajax's picture



America was finished when "buses" became acceptable English:


It's "busses" and always shall be.  Oh how Ajax fusses !!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:48 | 3059470 IllusionOfChoice
IllusionOfChoice's picture

Building Skynet can save our crumbling economy, I just know it!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:52 | 3059486 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

having ridden public busses, i can assure you there is very little conversation to begin with, and such conversation as there is, is either mindless drivel, or concerns seating


the only thing i can think of that is worse than recording bus conversation , is listening to bus conversation

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:00 | 3059532 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

No human will listen to it, unless "keywords" are detected.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:37 | 3059985 Joe A
Joe A's picture

They don't really have any other purpose than creating a panopticon. Terrorist don't ride on busses except for putting explosives on them and I doubt that they will talk about it while on the bus.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:10 | 3060090 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"Hi! My name is Mahmood. I'm from Eugene, Oregon. Mind if I put this C4 under your seat?"


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:16 | 3060377 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Government funded research studies show that 9.39% of terrorists prefer to plot their campaigns of mass destruction while riding public busses.  The remainder seem to prefer public restrooms.  Cameras and microphones coming to a toilet near you soon.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:25 | 3063395 mkkby
mkkby's picture

That's right. Which is why no eavsdropping technology will ever work.  The terrorists use their own code words like "deliver the cake".  All anyone will hear is normal sounding conversation.  It's all just a huge waste of money, except to the defense contractors who are milking us dry.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:01 | 3059537 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Not an excuse!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:11 | 3059591 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

This country is a joke.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:00 | 3059852 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

You have a point, but the big picture is we are being increasingly watched and listened to. Those that seek this ubiquitous, big-brother BS, are now and have been for some time, working toward a constant surveillance of those they seek to keep enslaved and they will continue until we don't even have privacy inside our own minds.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:28 | 3059954 spinone
spinone's picture

Agreed, buses must be a low priority for surveillance. So if they are finally getting down the list to buses, imagine what they are already monitoring.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:36 | 3059981 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Without discounting your point, I see this designed more as creating an acceptable avenue for "free money" flow. All municipalities are gearing up to become federal welfare queens. Transit systems have long been at the top of this list as it provides a shiny facade of "helping the poor," even though the services provided never live up to the hype. The real purpose though?

As always, Rent Seeking 101.

OPM? Gimme!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:20 | 3060111 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

around our house we call it "The Trough" or simply "Government Cheese".

911 changed everything.

(rubs hands together like a fly)

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:03 | 3060318 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

spinone finally got where i was going with it


by the time they are bugging busses its because the only other place to eaves drop is on themselves

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:36 | 3059983 Boiling Frogs
Boiling Frogs's picture

...and the frog gets a little warmer.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:17 | 3059637 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

IMHO, 9/11 was an inside job that would allow the .gov to easily overrule the 4th Ammendment under the banner of "terrorism".





Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:33 | 3059729 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

It's kind of interesting TPTB feel the need to gin up excuses to emasculate the Constitution and Bill of Rights.  Why not just steam-roller it like Lincoln did.  Perhaps their position is far more precarious than one might think. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:08 | 3059877 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

considering the Patriot Act is over 1000 pages and was ready days after the event, I think you're on to something.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:05 | 3060324 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

davey jones said "considering the Patriot Act is over 1000 pages and was ready days after the event, I think you're on to something"


considering the Patriot Act is over 1000 pages and was ready years before the event, I think you're on to something


fixed it for ya

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:14 | 3060870 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

good point. there was the officially ready and the unofficial

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:41 | 3061353 drexlraw
drexlraw's picture

1989 omnibus crime bill? ;)

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:51 | 3061728 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Basic digging reveals the unit's maker:

This particular model supports up to 12 cameras.

For the technically inclined:

Default interface is: /

It sports a web-panel administration page hosted on, with the default of admin/admin.

Even more amusingly, the cameras have the default password of Admin/1234.

It will accept GPS input as well as a connection for cell radio communications.


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:18 | 3061902 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

All they had to do was dust off the anth*ax

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:32 | 3059970 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

"any man who finds himself on a bus at the age of 26 can account himself a failure"

Margret Thatcher

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:38 | 3059992 Boiling Frogs
Boiling Frogs's picture

Or his parent's insurance.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:09 | 3060607 Agent P
Agent P's picture

"My mother always told me, 'There's always one weirdo on every bus'...but I could never find him."

Emo Phillips

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:36 | 3059400 saturn
saturn's picture

Find a way to fight them.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:56 | 3059514 max2205
max2205's picture

They won because HS and Iran and Afganastain bankrupted us

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:36 | 3061703 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

SAVAK, KHAD, Shabiha, mukhabarat --all for your own good.

Until it isn't.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:53 | 3059812 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Naturally this will be only to investigate terist threats. Until the DEA drug warriors want to data mine it. And then the divorce and child support lawyers will want transcripts.

Sound like time for some street theater. Maybe a Animal Liberation Front boom plot paid for with drugs by Mexican Islamists and financed by Nigerian Cave Gnomes.

Edit: Given the state of maintenance on public busses, I wouldn't expect them to last very long.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:19 | 3059925 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

If it's WIFI, then it can be cracked remotely.  Bus signs on WIFI were similarly altered in this way. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:24 | 3061027 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Paint cans - to cover

Fly spray + BIC lighter = flame thrower.

Shit I'm now on the "official" watch list

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:45 | 3059402 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Please don't tell me your definition of 'the terrorists' are towelheads hiding in caves... Let me guess ~ an Israeli based firm got the contract for installing these listening devices (which are utterly redundant anyway because with smartphones &/or car GPS systems, &/or credit cards, drivers licenses, etc. ANYTHING can be tracked at will)...

But yeah ~ If I'm going to be a 'terrorist' ~ I'm going to jump on a city bus and have open conversations about my clandestine activities... (rolls eyes)...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:08 | 3059570 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Right on Mr Sawyer-The terrorist are the CIA, DHS, MIC and the Bankers..............

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:25 | 3059683 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

Let's not forget the TSA, who seem to making a power grab for control of the US Interstate Highway system (see link below)

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:11 | 3060618 Agent P
Agent P's picture

If there's one thing the TSA is good at, it's grabbing things.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:10 | 3060094 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

You left out NUMBER 1= M O S S A D 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:44 | 3059780 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

the true terrorists are the ones installing this spyware

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:34 | 3060917 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

yup...and using torture in quantanomo, stocking up on millions of hollow point amo and throwing their unquestioned allegience to Israel.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:40 | 3059417 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

If by using the word terrorists you refer to the elite banksters and their puppets in government who false flag events then yes. I agree with you. If by using the word terrorist to describe a man in the middle east who straps a bomb on himself to rid his country of western war mongers (not an indictment of the soldier) then no. He has not won. He is dead and his country is still occupied.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:42 | 3059431 mercenaryomics
mercenaryomics's picture

Yet if I film a police officer, even in public, I can go to prison. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:57 | 3059519 CunnyFunt
Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:37 | 3059751 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

The Soviet State of IL recently was told IT IS legal to film an on-duty cop by the courts.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:45 | 3060010 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Welcome to USSA.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:47 | 3059464 Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

who cares.  only statists and savages use public transportation

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:06 | 3059555 Fire Cat
Fire Cat's picture

It's like "Fahrenheit 451" & "1984" had an illegitimate child and named it Amerika.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:12 | 3059891 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Reflexive +1

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:48 | 3060019 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Hey toss in a little Ipad and Dancing with the Stars souma, don't leave out Aldous!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:12 | 3059590 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

The terrorists won when we reacted the way we did after 9/11.  There were plenty of voices questioning those reactions back then, for these very reasons--and they were ridiculed.  

The U.S. has the power structure it asked for, and which it so richly deserves.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:17 | 3059638 odatruf
odatruf's picture

The terrorists didn't win then or now. Those elected and appointed to work for us have done this on their own, and we've allowed it.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:49 | 3059803 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

No, they have been in office for a while now.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:06 | 3060087 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

If you think you have nothing to hide so why worry about survelance keep this in mind:

You dont get to decide what is considered threatening or dangerous speech.  That decision is left up to the people listening to you.  You may not think you have anything to hide, but TPTB might disagree with you and if they do, youre kinda fucked.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:22 | 3060403 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The people "elected" one in 2008/2012 - well it was rigged but whatever.  All of TV and Hollywood love our mullah.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:23 | 3060891 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

What terrorists?? OH you must mean the biggest terrorist the U.S government and its cronies in Al-CIAda

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:32 | 3059370 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Avoid the fiscal cliff.  Eliminate Homeland Security!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:47 | 3059466 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Department of Homeland Security = SHELL CORPORATION to funnel taxpayer dollars to Israeli based security & tech surveillance interests...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:34 | 3059379 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

can they hear this -"FUCK YOU DHS,TSA,NSA,CIA,FBI,ET AL"

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:48 | 3059467 toady
toady's picture

My cousin is all crazy about this stuff. Every time I say I hate obama he's all 'quiet, they'll hear you! '

He has a list of acronyms you can't say, won't talk on the phone, spends most of his time in the woods, etc....

I can't go that far yet, but I'm almost there...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:56 | 3059510 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

its almost time to grow a beard, disappear, get wierd and move up into the mountains

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:00 | 3059535 centerline
centerline's picture

Drones love wierd people with beards.  And no one will hear the "booooooom!" when one delivers a housewarming gift up in the mountains.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:48 | 3060018 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I did that pretty much in the 70s but got bored and came back out in the 80s.  I knew it was all going bad then but was off on the timing.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:57 | 3060810 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

I'm good to go...just as soon as I find that elusive manual typewriter.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:57 | 3059515 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

It's much more liberating to just say "Fuck you" to the system, and continue on with your day.

Fuck living in fear.  

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:17 | 3059642 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

I bet they can read this......


I can’t think of anything more patriotic than violating the patriot act.

Author unknown

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:34 | 3059382 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

well if they really wanted my grandma's recipe for chicken and dumplings they should'a just asked! 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:52 | 3059491 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What about her Beans & Franks recipe?...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:59 | 3059528 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

1/2 lb. franks, cut in quarters

1/3 c. chopped onions

1 tbsp. butter

1 (16 oz.) can pork and beans

2 tbsp. catsup

1 tbsp. brown sugar or 1 Equal

1 tbsp. prepared mustard

1 1/2 tsp. Worcestershire sauce

Saute franks and onion in butter in skillet until franks are lightly browned. Add remaining ingredients, stir gently. Cook over medium heat about 10 minutes or until thoroughly heated, stirring often.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:02 | 3059539 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

bet you wouldnt dare say that on a bus though

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:38 | 3059703 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You can eat your dinner

eat your pork & beans

I eat more chicken any man's ever seen...


Edit: Actually, the recipe sounds good... But ~ the [16 oz. can of pork & beans] ingredient... That one made me laugh... It's like those HAMBURGER HELPER ads on TV... So yeah ~ you get some wannabe 'haute cuisine' chef who 'PERSONALIZES' a fucking batch of ground beef & hamburger helper by chopping in an onion or bell pepper...

Fucking Wolfgang Puck on a budget... Next thing you know, someone will be adding a few cubes of Velveeta into their powdered Mac&Cheese delicacy & serving it atop a piece of kale for presentation...


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:17 | 3060119 Bob
Bob's picture

Sautee the franks in butter I thought rich in a certain mangled charm. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:32 | 3059725 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

Or eat that before getting on a bus

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:53 | 3059824 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

You should name that recipe Cropdusting Fuel ;-)

If I had to ride a public bus (none where I live), I'd be stirring often myself. 

Last bus I was on was about 25 years ago.  The bus caught on fire and I wound up walking home anyhow.  Sans bus fare refund.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:22 | 3060407 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I'll make sure to eat that before boarding a bus. They can record me farting loudly. Too bad they couldn't record the smell. Cocksuckers.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:33 | 3059383 CPL
CPL's picture


Another sloppy monitoring system to use and capture evidence broadcast over the air.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:34 | 3059384 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

isnt it for our own safety?    


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:59 | 3059847 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You know the story, you can never be too safe and if it will save one life, it's worth it. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:01 | 3060818 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

This will be used to kill thousands, perhaps millions, but if they save one precious little white girl pimp her to all the talk shows, the sheeple will eat it up.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:36 | 3059385 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Actually, don't hate on me (I don't make the "rules"), but public buses are...."public," and under a critical mass of stare decisis, there's absolutely no reasonable expectation of privacy in any public space (there may be an exception to this black letter rule of law that I'm not aware of, but if so, it's the exception, and please remind me or inform me of it) under the 4th Amendment or any other consituonal "area."

The general rule of thumb, in layman's terms, is to never expect that you're not being photographed, recorded or otherwise identified or monitored in any public space in modern day America, if you are in a public space.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:38 | 3059403 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I believe under the letter of the law, you are correct. "Public" means public.

Most people now are more than happy to have everybody in earshot hear their telephone conversations, so I don't see the problem here.

Have you ever heard how people speak into their telephones when they are taking public transportation? It's as though they finally got their close-up with Mr. Demille.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:50 | 3059481 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Tsar Pointless

You are so totally right.  Everyone preening for their 15 minutes at the watercooler, bank teller line, etc.  In other news, the CALM law goes into effect today, so big brother is going to protect our ears from loud commercials, too.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:58 | 3059522 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

they are only turning down the commercials so they can hear your conversations better


people just dont talk during the show, and they need to be able to hear your conversations to properly tailor the advertising to your needs


<no sarc>

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:20 | 3060122 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

It's not just public, it's private too.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:27 | 3060143 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

"Most people now are more than happy to have everybody in earshot hear their telephone conversations, so I don't see the problem here"

I do.  Privacy is privacy, regardless of what the majority thinks or how the majority behaves. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:39 | 3059414 Cursive
Cursive's picture


I think there's a reasonable expectation that if you are alone on a bus and you let out a gigantic buritto fart, then no one should be listening.  I hope this makes you chuckle and realize the constant, creeping unnecessary nosiness of big bother.  There's no excusing it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:42 | 3059427 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Cursive no one lets out a gigantic burrito fart while they sit there. They wait till there stop and rip it on the way out. That is known as "cropdusting" and it cannot be caught by microphone or on tape.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:00 | 3059850 HobbyFarmer
HobbyFarmer's picture

God, I love this site.  One moment I'm paranoid and the next I'm laughing at the hilarity of the whole thing.

First site I check in the morning and last one before computer is turned off.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:46 | 3059433 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Peeps, I never said I liked it, but was just stating the law as interpretred repeatedly & consistently by the wise elders of our beloved Supreme Court (Marbury v. Madison, bitchez).

If I'm technically wrong in my interpretation, you'll never find a person more humble (I hope) and wanting to be corrected, so I'll take no offense.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:46 | 3059456 john39
john39's picture

two points... first, when those court decisions where handed down... no one was thinking about nationwide surveilance systems, tracking people in real time through supercomputers... didn't exist.  second, the legal system is corrupt and has been for a long time...   the constitution was destroyed through the commerce clause, which has bascially been interpreted to allow the federal government to regulate anything and everything...  just for starters. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:00 | 3059506 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I respect your opinions, and I'm not being condescending, but there are very current rulings from federal courts, all consistent with everything I've stated. In fact, there are relatively current rulings reiterating these principles from the SCOTUS itself.

Again, I'm not stating this is as it should be, nor consistent with the intent of the framers, but it's the modern reality until the highest court in the land decides to do a 180.

Anyone who thinks that they have an expectation of privacy to be respected under the province of our constitution that prevents their movements or voice from being monitored and recorded has never walked down a Manhattan street.

There are even fewer "privacy rights" that extend to people within airports, subway stations, etc.


p.s. - There was a recent case where a citizen suspected of drug trafficking had a GPS tracking device place on his motor vehicle, that was parked in his driveway, sans warrant, and was subsequently arrested for said drug trafficking. He challenged the arrest on grounds that the placing of the GPS tracking device on his vehicle without a warrant invalidated the action of law enforcement, since his driveway, essentially, was not a "public space," and won. I think that he would have lost had he chose to park on the adjacent city street (but that's speculation).

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:05 | 3059549 john39
john39's picture

court decisions are simply a judge or a panel or judges' interpretation of the constitution....  they say that this orwellian insanity is constitutional...   why they are where they are after all...  I say they are wrong... that having a nationwide network or cameras and microphones hooked into supercomputers is an unreasonable invasion of privacy.   that said, i hardly expect the court system to fix this, by now that should be obvious to just about everyone.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:12 | 3059573 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You're getting into the realm of legal theory/philosophy and what should be.

I'm speaking in terms of legal mechanics and what presently "is."

You're being thoughtful, contemplative and ebbing towards the ideal.

I'm sticking to the straight yellow line on the two lane highway of present reality (for purposes of this topic).

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:28 | 3059695 john39
john39's picture

ok, but we all know what is going on...   so what?  i could summarize it in a word.... fascism.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:01 | 3059724 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I certaintly am about as opposed as one could be to the mission creep and ever expanding intrusion of, but IMO, it's wise to know the rules by which the game is played.

I'm under the impression that it's been turned into a game of "gaming," with severe stakes hanging in the balance.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:58 | 3059841 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

They are not Judges they are Administrators of the court , we have had no Judges in America since 1871.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:49 | 3059472 Cursive
Cursive's picture


No offense, brother.  And fonzanoon has also enlightened me on the finer aspects of close proximity cropdusting.  I appreciate your legal review of the situation.  I don't doubt that "they" will find any and all reasons to do whatever they please to trample on our hard-won liberties and I don't doubt that we are united in our disgust and willingness to resist.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:53 | 3059496 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

The fact that this is a public bus doesn't mean there isn't a "reasonable expectation of privacy."  But you allude to the very purpose of this:  to further restrict the "reasonable expectation of privacy" such that it isn't reasonable anywhere.

Previously, it would have been reasonable for us to speak together on a public bus and expect our conversation to be private.  It isn't so much that we are on a public bus, but that we are merely speaking privately together.  What's next?  X-ray scanners that can see through everyone on the bus and identify everything that is on (or in) a person's body?  Downloading all information off everyone's cell phone who gets on the bus?  DNA samples stored along with pictures?

In a world where people elect as "Person of the Year" an evil dictator who tortures and kills by the thousands, nothing should surprise us anymore.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:06 | 3059557 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

He was elected man of the year for the lols.  Off topic, but did you hear that Skrillex died last night?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:12 | 3059892 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Nonetheless, there was a time in this country when someone a bit too preoccupied with minding my business, rather than their own, was met with a rap on the beak and a heartfelt admonition to get the hell outta here before I permanently rearrange your face.......

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:45 | 3059449 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

In my backyard:

It is illegal to record the voice of a private citizen in my state without their consent and it can't be inferred. The court did rule however, one can record a "public official" while in the performance of their duties.

Of course these days, usurping The United States Constitution and the Rule of Law in general is no longer big deal.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:48 | 3059473 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

First, the law on a private citizen recording another person varies from state to state, and isn't "on all fours," legally speaking, with this subject matter.

The government can and does set up CCTV, sound recorders and other monitoring equipment that captures images and noises that emanate from public spaces all day, every day, in public spaces, and it's perfectly legal/constitutional according to the Supreme Court.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:11 | 3059584 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Images are good all day long, not so for audio.

From The U.S. Supreme Court, Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967):

"first that a person have exhibited an actual (subjective) expectation of privacy; and second, that the expectation be one that society is prepared to recognize as 'reasonable.'"

The Supreme Court has, for the most part, not addressed the issue of whether or not the Katz standard is applicable to wiretaps that are undertaken for national security, as opposed to criminal prosecution, purposes.

Looks like it's going to be tested.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:15 | 3059624 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The facts presented in that case are wholly different than what's being discussed in this thread, though.

A wiretap instituted by law enforcement in an area that is being (apparently) argued not to be a public space, under the alleged claim of "national intelligence," is a different ball of wax.

It's an interesting case, though.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:34 | 3059386 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The last time I was on a public bus there was some batshit crazy guy one there rambling about everything. This guy would have sent TPTB on 50 wild goose chases.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:40 | 3059418 jayman21
jayman21's picture

Let the games begin

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:35 | 3059387 resurger
resurger's picture

Fuck you Obamma!

Record that bitch!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:53 | 3060045 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

I am still confuse. Who are you guys talking about, Osama or Obama, Saddam Hussein or Barack hussein, ehud burak or barak hussain.


or we got Burak Saddam Osama in the white house?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:35 | 3059389 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

they have chips in the new cars too

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:40 | 3059424 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'm holding out for the brain implants.

<Hold still. This won't hurt a bit.>

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:05 | 3059558 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Come to think of it, if they just give everyone a lobotomy instead of a brain implant, there would be no need to track anyone.

Actually, that's probably in the health care bill.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:21 | 3059666 odatruf
odatruf's picture

You'd have to read it to know...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:06 | 3059871 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The MSM has been giving non-surgical lobotomies for decades.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:03 | 3059545 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

All the more reason to NOT buy something that loses thousands of value the second you drive the bitch off the lot.....that and the majority of them are shit.

I'm sure I will get junked by some fat ass Michigan union thugs who decided to troll today instead of protest.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 12:06 | 3059560 centerline
centerline's picture

Most newer cars already have event data recorders (black boxes).  They may not record "everything" but can be used in the event of an accident.  Of course, they are not flawless either.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 13:18 | 3059920 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

your own car can testify against you in court. brilliant!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:36 | 3059391 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

when the last days of fiat currency fun are in sight, you dance all night while the music still plays

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:36 | 3059397 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Never saw this coming. Not in a million years.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 11:36 | 3059398 AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

Soon in your home!

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