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Gold-to-Silver Ratio Soars By Most In 2012

Tyler Durden's picture


From the open of the US equity market day-session, gold and silver have diverged aggressively. Gold is notably outperforming silver - in fact today is the biggest jump in the Gold/Silver ratio of the year. The Gold/Silver ratio has also retraced upwards to its 50DMA. It seems there is overall pressure on precious metals post-Bernanke but the relative preference is for Gold so far.


From the start of the US equity day-session, gold and silver have diverged...


Gold/Silver ratio jumps by most in 2012 to catch up to its 50DMA...


Charts: Bloomberg


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Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:36 | 3060144 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture

STACKING MORE! THANKS JAMIE! On the first day of Christmas Blythe gave to me...a "In debt and death we trust" silver bullet silver shiield one oz round.

Can't wait to see what Blythe brings tomorrow!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:44 | 3060209 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Gold is heading significantly lowe, I'm afraid. Yesterday's trading action was nothing short of dismal, and paints a bleak outlook for gold and silver. The dreams of goldbugs are about to shattered into tiny pieces by the coming collapse of the gold bubble. The crash is long overdue - I can't say whether it will be next week, or next month, but it's coming. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:45 | 3060218 Chump
Chump's picture

Man I hope so.  A sale like that would have me grabbing coins hand over fist.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:46 | 3060228 redpill
redpill's picture

Voters re-elected 90% of incumbents in Congress this year.


And people wonder why nothing changes...


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:49 | 3060237 Chump
Chump's picture

Hey man, it's not my Congresscritters that are the problem.  It's yours.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:55 | 3060268 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I know. His guy kind of smells. Like decaying old person smell.

Mine is as fresh as a summers eve.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:53 | 3060544 Chump
Chump's picture

Douche and Turd.  It's always a contest between Douche and Turd.  +1

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:27 | 3061160 trav777
trav777's picture

It is as if millions of silverbug doomer goons cried out in terror and were suddenly blowtorched

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:12 | 3061285 Oquities
Oquities's picture

swapped $2,375 in green paper today for 400 pre-1965 US quarters = 72 oz. silver - felt very good about it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:21 | 3061304 Oquities
Oquities's picture

on the way home from the coin dealer, stopped at dunham sports for 2 boxes each 38 special and 12 ga. buckshot - true shit, yippee!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:04 | 3061425 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Both good investments for an uncertain future.  I highly recommend the pre-65 quarters.  They can usually be bought around spot and are a perfect denomination (current value around 6 FRNs).

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:45 | 3061530 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

The Gold / Silver ratio commonly diverges as hyperinflation kicks in. The big dogs are getting out of Silver in to Gold.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:20 | 3061303 akak
akak's picture

It's as if millions of blacks in "logical', 'scientific' gas chambers cried out in terror at the moment of their death --- and Trav smiled.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:44 | 3061926 Pascal1967
Pascal1967's picture

Incumbents get voted in by higher and higher percentages every election. It is a game BOTH parties play when rigging the congressional districts. they vote for the new districts to protect each other. The "percentage by which incumbents win" is going UP and UP, election aft election.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:05 | 3060322 SILVERGEDDON

I have to poop.  Paper sucks, you Wall Street fucks! I'll see you vampires in the sun, with my loaded silver gun. Yer goin' down in flames, from Lower Manhattan to the Thames. Your paper is I know not where, I'd rather shit my underwear!  For, be there bull, or be there bear, silver is the suit I wear!

(With gratitude, and apologies to Dr. Seuss.)


The only paper I own is the stuff I wipe my ass with. Market paper is worthless, because I cannot do a good job of wiping my ass with it. Gold was worth $28.00 an ounce when I was a kid. Silver was worth whatever was printed on the coin you spent. Any one think those days are coming back? All of the lying bum fucking aristocracy of the Age Of Paper Power can burn in their paper suits soonest. I won't even bother pissing on them to put out the flames.

I collect gold, silver, lead, copper, real dry powder, food, tools, diesel fuel, and other useful commodities. There is a community of folks all doing the same, so skill sets and extra eyes and hands can guard each others sixes. I'll bank on that first. 

HFT ain't good for me. 

Credit defaults far as the eye can see.


CDS's gonna make some messes. 

Boo hoo hoo as thieves confesses. 

TBTF gonna fall off a cliff - REAL NEAT. Wall Street is a bunch of fucking dead meat.


Banks used to be so overleveraged bold.

Now, they're layin' bankrupt,dead and cold. Gonna be nothing but prepper people,

all the rest gonna be surprised fucked up Sheeple. God bless this mess. I must confess.

I'm a fucking poet,


and didn't even know it.



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:25 | 3060414 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Nice commentary on the undervalued asset, silver, by Andy Hoffman:

My new post SHTF skill to work on next year is to perfect the making of "hard" cider from apples.  We have plenty of apple trees around here, and I think hard cider would be a great barter item.  I understand with the right equipment it is fairly easy to make.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:33 | 3060461 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Amen! In times like these yeast excrement can be very useful.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:39 | 3060723 Orly
Orly's picture

Am I just discovering that all you gold-bug types are also anally fixated?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:51 | 3060778 akak
akak's picture

If so, it is only due to being forced to use so much paper to wipe away all the crap.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:03 | 3060983 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

you know Orly and I are the same person don't you?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:07 | 3060988 akak
akak's picture

The realization has been dawning for some time.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:25 | 3061032 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

she' one of my poorest creations

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:51 | 3061228 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture


We understand she doesn't own any gold or silver,

but she is perfecting her beet recipes

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:03 | 3061759 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey Oral=y How about a round for the boys.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:22 | 3060655 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

It's extremely easy to make and it tastes great.  You can perfect this in January and work on other skills the rest of the year.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:18 | 3060873 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Thanks for the link.  Here is how to add the "hard" to the cider:

Much of my Spring freetime will be dedicated to my garden and planting more apple trees.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:50 | 3061545 perchprism
perchprism's picture


I have 5 apple trees now.   I bought an antique press in Gatlinburg, TN this past October---like about $100.  Works fine. 

But the deal with hard cider is, you have to save some of it to make vinegar.  Vinegar at 5% acid is what you need for pickling and cheese-making, as well canning lots of stuff.  So try to make some vinegar from your cider.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:21 | 3060889 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

How about some nice smooth appleshine!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:27 | 3061491 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Oh Yeah, Calvados bitchez..

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:22 | 3060400 Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

I buy my goddaughter Silver coins every Birthday and Xmas.  She's only 11, but dammit, I'm responsible for her spiritual health.  This year I'm also buying her a little chest (converted jewellery box) to keep her "treasure" in.

My point is, Silver and Gold coins make for great gifts, and when given to children, teaches them the importance of savings and security.  The monkey-hammering PMs are taking recently is like a Black Friday sale on Gold and Silver. I love it.

And I find the best way to convert people to the idea of buying PMs is to show them a coin, let them hold it, let them think about how much they would like one too.  I never tell people how big my stack is, but I usually walk around with a gold coin in my pocket, just for evangelistic purposes. People love to see it and hold it... "my god, it's so heavy"  "Yes my friend, that weight you're feeling there is value.  Now pick up a half dollar or a loonie or a pound coin... feels cheap, doesn't it?  That's coz it is."

Carrying coins and showing your friends, buying them as gifts for your loved ones are the best things we can do for the price of PMs.  Grassroots, bitchez.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:49 | 3060523 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Very good story and great advice. Mine is similar; my wife is one of fourteen siblings in her family, no they're not Catholic, lol. When we got married Christmas was chaos, we would bring home dozens of ridiculous and useless gifts every year and then throw them away weeks or days later.  Ten years ago I started giving tenth ounce gold coins to all of the kids instead of toys, now I give silver eagles. For a few years now all of the aunts and uncles give them out as well, my kids have quite a stack already and they love, understand and appreciate it very much. We also draw names for a secret Santa gift of one toy for each child jsut for the fun of it. But the kids are accumulating wealth and learning the value of real money. It is a great lesson indeed and everyone seems to love it! This year I am giving out Chinese 41 gram bars, "meet the new boss..."

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:17 | 3060636 Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

And there's one sure-fire way to the hearts of the kidlets.

Yes I'm talking about Burl Ives:

Silver and gold
Silver and gold
Silver and gold
Ev'ryone wishes
For silver and gold
How do you measure
It's worth?
Just by the pleasure it
Gives here on Earth
Silver and gold
Silver and gold
Mean so much more
When I see
And gold decorations
On ev'ry Christmas tree
Silver, silver and gold
Silver, silver and gold
Silver and gold

Silver and gold
Silver and gold
Wise men brought gifts
To the mange I'm told
Mary was humble to see
Shepherds and kings
There on bended knees
It's silver and gold
Silver and gold
Feeling the world
With their lives
Silver and gold
How they shimmer
On ev'ry Christmas night
On ev'ry Christmas night

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:54 | 3060550 villainvomit
villainvomit's picture

I have been giving silver morgans as gifts to the loved ones for a while.  Either that or a blade that I made. 

"Every Southern gentleman should always carry a knife"  who said that ?  Yeah, I prolly mangled it, but it's true.



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:01 | 3060573 Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

Thanks for sharing your stories too, Ookspay and Villain.

I haven't been doing this as long as you Ooks, but you're telling me I'm on the right path.  PMs can go viral at the family level, they don't need the internet.  And then those kids friends starting asking and then so on and so on like the old shampoo ad.

I know my little one's older brothers are already jealous of her treasure, and that's a good thing.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:30 | 3061168 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Atta Boy Solon! It's a healthy addiction.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:13 | 3061113 Smicer
Smicer's picture

Careful Villian. They will both be soon illegal to possess.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:25 | 3061653 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

And a handkerchief and a flashlight.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:30 | 3061166 trav777
trav777's picture

in a few years from now, when you silverbugz are all broke, I'll be buying your daughter a "big chest."

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:56 | 3061201 akak
akak's picture

Go tell it to the soon-to-be bagholders in overpriced equities and bubblelicious bonds.

Your continued specious misportrayal of ALL silver investors as "bagholders", pumpers and gullible fools only highlights what a dishonest, disingenuous, malicious piece of shit you truly are.  Your racism is only the icing on the cake.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:53 | 3061237 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I knew you wasn't a player.

If you had the juice, you'd make her buy her own set!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:02 | 3061422 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

yep - awesome. I keep buying PMs but give most away as gifts these days...ever since that bad boating accident anyway.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:37 | 3060474 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

There is a sale going on where I live.  They take green paper for gold and silver.  Can you dig it?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:01 | 3060826 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Hey, that's some crazy shit, brother. I can get behind that. Paper for Gold and Silver, eh? 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:23 | 3061142 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Has it ever occurred to anyone here that if PMs were going to sky rocket to infinintum like some PM bugs would hope for, that these PM companies wouldn't be selling to you? Wouldn't they be hoarding it themselves. Yea, I know they have to make a living and they have a markup over the spot price. But even then, wouldn't they increase their markup? For example, you can easily get silver with a 15% markup over spot. You can get gold at 5% over spot.


I do see a huge financial calamity coming, as most of us do. However, I think it plays out differently and thus I take a contrarian view. And yes, I do hold a small portion of my assets in PMs. I am asking you to think logically. Put yourself in the shoes of a PM company that sells retail to the public. If you had such strong opinion of the PM market, why would you sell at such a low margin?


On another note, as I posted yesterday on Flakmeister, we see oil going down again. Or basically as most things, not moving much relative to everything else. In other words a brief period of limbo where the markets are clearifying the fundamentals. I add this comment because it also relates to PMs. With all the massive printing, why aren't prices of PMs and oil much higher? That is the market telling you something. The hidden message between the lines that most investors/speculators miss and why most of them lose money.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:29 | 3061167 akak
akak's picture


With all the massive printing, why aren't prices of PMs and oil much higher? That is the market telling you something.

Actually, I think yesterday's little waterfall plunge is more likely Goldman Sachs, the LBMA, the Fed and the PPT trying to tell us something.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:47 | 3061196 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

But that doesn't answer my question. You are talking about one day. I am talking about the market overall.


Do I have to cite you all the money that has been printed? Do I have to mention all the various stimulus programs by various departments? Even here, many of us focus on the TRITE $16 trillion in debt when in fact that debt worldwide is likely closer to $100 trillion (I admit that much of that debt I just stated is future obligation so it is questionable - I am an honest debator). But I also did some research and even corrected Tyler that the FED created an addtional $16 trillion in debt (financial support) worldwide in just 5 years.  And if you combine what the FED has done, what the ECB has done and other various central banks like Japan and China, you could easily caculate printing to counteract that $100 trillion in debt.


So I pose my question to you again, since you responded. If worldwide, we have upwards of $100 trillion in printing, why aren't such commodities much higher. I have answered this in many post and I am pushing others to debate my position in a logical fashion.

So far, the markets and my investments have told me I am right.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:53 | 3061230 akak
akak's picture

I will freely admit that I do not know why all the governmental debt monetization has not sent the prices of gold and silver even higher than they have --- yet.

However, focusing on the bigger and longer-term picture, as you wisely admonish, I note that their prices are still in a decade-long upward trend, not a falling one as all the deflationary crackpots would have had us expecting four years ago. 

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:45 | 3065713 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

There's an endless black hole of debt in every nation.

Why expect the cash to come back out of the event horizon? It can't. What can happen is refusal to put it INTO the event horizon, yet still to print. That day will come.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:56 | 3061239 Confused
Confused's picture

Why aren't they higher? Manipulation. 


Think its far fetched? One word........LIBOR.


why are they selling it to us? 


Because the mass still believes in paper.......until it doesn't. 

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 00:43 | 3065711 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Clearly large amounts of printed cash (electrons included) are dedicated to specific bond purchases & rehypothecation - it's a solvency issue. Promises were made to put the cash there first so that's where it is. Not gold, not oil, not commodities, though profits FROM the activities is extra and THAT can (did) go into commodities, yielding profits for some, price increases over-all & some nice volatility.

Don't knock the volatility, that's what let's traders trade. Options, HFT's, I don't care as long as it's legal & I'm allowed to do what they do OR they (HFT's, HF's) are dumb enough to indicate in advance what they'll do so I can move ahead of that.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:37 | 3065621 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I fully expect this event to happen - but you'll first see "out of inventory" even if it's not true before some places are willing to admit they will sell for a higher price. They're shit-scared of it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:46 | 3060225 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

I started reading this and then saw it was the troll known as MDB!


Carry on troll.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:47 | 3060231 redpill
redpill's picture

It was one of his subtler efforts.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:49 | 3060235 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

 "I can't say whether it will be next week, or next month, but it's coming."


Yep, just like in the 80's when it boomed and busted.. If you can't eat it, dump it and buy farmland and learn animal husbandry or be one of the unlcky ones the bible talks about.


Ezekiel 7:19



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:57 | 3060287 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

"animal husbandry"-as long as I am the husband and not the wife-bahhhhhhhhhh

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:23 | 3060409 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Get a place in Montana where they are beef fed and sheep bred.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:34 | 3060457 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yeah, I'm not really to up-to-the minute on the "Animal Husbandry" thing; but it sounds kinda kinky to me. My high school counselor was kind of confused after he got done administering all his tests to me; finally he said; well you can be a great success in anything you choose; except farming. I asked him why not farming? He said, because you'll be bored to death. But seriously, folks; The only thing I can say in response to this Silver price is BUY THE FUCKIN SHIT OUT OF SILVER. I had to do it; the devil made me do it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:50 | 3060239 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

While I look at the gold:silver ratio, at this point it is not too relevant to me.  Gold is what I prefer, although I own silver too.  The ratio itself implies what others think as well (even though they ARE paper PM prices).

I read from time-to-time that many say that "at some point" they will turn their silver into gold, especially if/when the GSR drops.

And yet, I NEVER read that people will turn their gold into silver.  Not even once.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:09 | 3060337 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Good point. I think that is partly because gold is generally the leader of the two and silver or "poor mans gold" generally follows.

If gold start to climb, silver usually lags so the GSR widens. Then silver catches up. If and when a peak is hit; it is likely that gold would drop first while silver leveled off. This would drop the GSR.

I think most of those talking of turning silver to gold are thinking about this. I would likely trade some silver if the GSR hit 20; but only for phys gold, not paper.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:27 | 3060430 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"If and when a peak is hit..."

I don't think there will be a so called "peak" in dollar terms like there was in the 1980's.  There isn't going to be a Volker moment where they raise interest rates back into positive territory.  If hyperinflation sets in, are you going to cash out into dollars?  There could be a short term peak, if they let the Dow drop 50% for sure, and gold could get a big haircut, but so will food and fuel.  I'm not worried.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:53 | 3060762 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I think there will be a peak; and it will be difficult to decide what to do with it. If it is really the pre-lude to hyper-inflation; then you want to ignore it; because actual hyper-inflation is a short term thing; the whole process in Germany was over in 14 months, or something; it should be much faster nowadays what with the dollar being the reserve currency and all the fiats being non-redeemable; the people in germany who ignored the peak and just held on to the gold coins did just fine because of course they could use them to buy "Rentenmarks"; which replaced the old mark. If it's not the pre-lude to actual hyperinflation than you would want to sell into it. All markets throw peaks; or go exponential; it's kind of built in. You'll have to figure out based on the general tone of the times whether people are actually going to repudiate the dollar. A lot of people in Mexico sold their Silver coins into what looked like a peak in the Peso Price; but it was caused by insider knowledge of the coming official de-valuation; so they ended up with huge losses. they got a "high price" in old Pesos; but it was worth shit in "new pesos"; So, you'll have to make a decision. At the present moment I'm predjudiced against selling into a peak because it could be followed by a "new dollar" or a "world credit unit" or whatever; that left you with egg on your face. In the event of an actual de-valuation; a new dollar, or whatever; the actual purchasing price of silver will be so high for so many months, or years, that you won't have lost a lot by being safe and not selling into the peak. In other words the exchange value of silver and gold will be quite high even in the new currency; because of the "shock and awe" of the de-valuation. Faith and credibility once squandered is difficult to recover, and that is what holds up the buying power of the dollar.  I believe it would be safer/ less speculative to ignore the peak; or only selling into it as necessary to maintain your budget if you;re funding your retirement from your metals holdings, for instance.  There won't be any big downside; after the peak. the 1980's had a clear cut cause and effect and we know this will not repeat; also; and I mean this very seriously, in depth; this is not 1980.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:52 | 3060785 DosZap
DosZap's picture

what with the dollar being the reserve currency

NOT everywhere anymore, and that is going to ultimately break the back of BeenybuX.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 20:09 | 3061274 delacroix
delacroix's picture

 In nicaragua today I had a hiking guide look at my dollars, like they were wooden nickels. he wanted to be paid in cordobas. probably because they can be spent without the need to be exchanged. I am well off the beaten path. so the issue was probably convenience.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:20 | 3061018 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:40 | 3060490 laozi
laozi's picture

I turned half my gold into silver 12 month ago. My bet is on silver. That is where the real potential is to be found IMO.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:00 | 3060563 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Before it's all over, you should be able to trade a portion of it and get some gold for free if you want to.

I see a GSR touching 10:1

At least I am planning for such an event. As a hedge, you can own both and trade the other direction if the GSR flirts with it's top again. I'd love to see 100:1 again and dump some "yellow" for something better and later swap back.

Hold one or hold both, but by all means hold something

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:57 | 3061242 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

For the serious stacker (vice speculator), I would think that silver might present certain storage and logistical problems. The weight and volume - even if we were to see 16:1 again - might make a compelling argument for gold.

Just guessing though. Had a few coins once but seem to have misplaced them.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:58 | 3060562 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I've heard that there arithmetic is good for comparing things. If you divide the present price of gold by the low in 2001; and then do the same for Silver; you'll find that silver goes up more in percentage price than gold. Silver is in very, very, short supply. The total silver market is very small; small markets respond with higher price rises than large markets to similar changes in demand. And finally; human psychology. Is it easier to raise the price of gas if it's 2$/ gallon, or $10/gallon? Assuming the same percentage increase in price. Every retailer knows the answer to this question. $50/oz. Silver "Looks" cheaper to Billy Joe Bob, than $2,000/oz gold; so more buying pressure is exerted on the "lower priced" article. And so forth, and so on. There really isn't any counterargument; except the propaganda that Silver is an Industrial Metal. LOL. If you believe that one; well, good luck.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 21:43 | 3061529 zelator
zelator's picture

"And so forth, and so on."

Marc, is that you?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:34 | 3062703 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

This myth is busted.

This is what really happens to both prices at the same time:

2011 dec 27 gold 07 | 10 years gold vs silver scatterplot

2012 06 24 scatterplot gold vs silver 10yr 03 | goldpricemodel

2011 dec 27 gold 08 | goldpricemodel | silver gold scatterplot

Pardon my mis-spelling: the date is locked on the upload & the image has the word 'scatterplog' burned into it pixel by pixel. Oh well, fuck it. I prefer my predictive uploads to show the date so that others can't say I just went backwards & didn't actually snag it ahead of the real price action. It is what it is.

2400 GOLD BY 2013 September

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:57 | 3060554 s2man
s2man's picture

I already turned my gold into silver when I realized gold would be useless in bartertown.  Sure, gold is a good preserver of wealth, but you'll need someone verify/assay it in order to sell or trade it.  Every Joe knows recognizes a 90% silver coin for what it is...

Now you have heard it, Do Chen  :)

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:30 | 3062695 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no less reason to assay silver than gold. Plus some fools might think anything shiny & not colored is silver. I wouldn't be some are fools. Nothing on Earth looks like gold. It's an easier choice for me. It's simply worth so much for a tiny quantity that barter becomes challenging unless you cut very small pieces. However for large / expensive services gold is deal for bartertown.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:09 | 3060603 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I already turned my gold in for Silver; a long time ago; let's see; roughly about twenty two years ago. Okay; now you've heard it once. But the real fun for me was trying to convince people to buy silver at $4.35/oz. I picked middle aged white men with money to save and protect; who were semi-sophisticated; they all had stock market accounts, two of them had small businesses; one of them was an active day trader in the stock market. Guess what? No deal. I was told to go away and stop bothering them with my crazy ideas about $20/0z. Silver, and stock market crashes, and all the rest of out of consensus BS I wanted to tell them about. Nothing will convince a human being more certainly that something is a bad investment than a low price. If the price is low, it means "everybody" knows it's no good; so there. Thinking finished. Miller Time. Problem? Everybody is almost always wrong. Only the 1% of the people who are willing to check up on a few background facts and do their own thnking are ever right; and in on the beginning of the big bull markets. Everybody else is busy being comfortable believing what everybody else believes; Silver! Why, that's useless; you can do nothin with it; it don't pay no dividend; you're a crazy feller, get out of here. Very interesting experience.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:52 | 3060895 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

There is 170,000 tons of gold (known) floating around there.   (various sources) 

Known WORLD Reserves of silver are only at about 530,000 tons.  That's everything ever mined, minted or even detected in the ground.

I'll keep buying silver.  



Gold information -

EDITED: Updated for 2012 data 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:13 | 3061623 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

I will turn some of my gold into silver (again) if the GSR goes back up to 57.48 and vice versa at 48.36.

There you go.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:27 | 3062678 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

fiat for gold, fiat for silver. Trading out gold for silver is an emergency move and/or a post-currency move. By all means when gold & silver are the standard accepted coinage of the realm(s) I'll trade one for the other. For the time being PAPER is what should go, I'll adjust how much excess of gold or silver I take in based on a combination of conditions.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:50 | 3060245 Buzzworthy
Buzzworthy's picture

MDB is actually telling us the truth here.  There will likely be a severe drop in precious metals before an exponential move higher.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:07 | 3060328 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Bingo, I've got my hand on the shift lever ready to put the truck in reverse....

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:22 | 3060656 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Well make sure you get the tailgate lined up with the loading dock before Joe and Jane Baby Boomer start pulling the 375Billion dollars they put into Bond Funds in the last 90 days out of there; due to failure to perform; because as sure as chickens have two wings, they aren't going to buying any more stocks with that money; and some of it is going to be lined up right there beside you on the loading dock.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:18 | 3062623 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

2400 GOLD BY 2013 September

Down to the last 4 weeks, likely, so I'd say it's time to start averaging into 1600/oz and watch it pop. After all, 1696 now, 1600 4 weeks from now, do you really want to wait when March is 2000, 2100, September is 2400 ? Is that a reason to just sit and wait?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:10 | 3060347 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

I'm afraid worse that gold going down is yield on the 10 & 30 year going up after Fed announcement. Much scarier. The dreams of xxx are abut to <be> shattered into tiny pieces by the collapse of the xxx  bubble. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:17 | 3060632 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

That's right; there was a long discussion about the direction of the thirty year here yesterday. It's now become clear, to those who have eyes, as it says somewhere in some famous book, that we're pumping up the dollar bubble itself; and not just the housing bubble or the stock market bubble; notice today alongside the anouncement of the fall in price of the long term treasuries; the anouncement of the new "dollar swaps"; in my humble opinion this is not a co-incidence; and the "need" to "help out" our European Friends with their Banking Problems has a lot more to do with this sudden decision to print billions of dollars of new money than Ben's "feeling your pain" about your job. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:56 | 3060804 Orly
Orly's picture

They've been doing that for months.  Why do you think the Euro has been so resilient in the face of certain chaos?  Check out the increase in the Fed's "Other Holdings" over the past several months and you'll come to the conclusion that these are Greek and Spanish Government bonds.

Alan Grayson asked what happened to the half-trillion dollars way back in the beginning of this mess.

Same thing.

On steroids.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:20 | 3060883 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yes, dear, I understand this is an on-going process. I don't think that makes my attempt to comment on the present, sudden, significant, jump in money printing useless or pointless, however. You need to remember that some people actually believe Ben is doing this so they can get a job.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:10 | 3060997 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

" the conclusion that these are Greek and Spanish Government bonds". Are you sure there aren't German and Dutch and others in the mix?

Which means the FED is for the first time accumulating FX reserves.

No wonder the Cities pushed so strongly for EuroBonds.

No wonder the eurozone is pushing back.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:48 | 3060510 ozzz169
ozzz169's picture

Your missing the point here, the point is not the bubble in gold, but the bubble in leverage (caused by years of artificially low interest rates), what will cause deflation when it pops, yes the fed control p is inflationary, but we are overleveraged by 20-30 Trillion, (350% of GDP compared to 150% GDP historical standard, which seems to be the natural sustainable level of leverage).  So the problem is they are just bubbling up everything making the problem worse, by not letting the bubble pop and taking the medicine quick.  we are going to see a 20 year period of deleveraging with slow to no growth.  which is not bullish for gold, rather its bearish.  the bottom line is over the last 30-40 years we should have massive deflation due to decreases in scarcity and increases in productivity, but instead we have had massive inflation already, so that malinvestment must be taken out of the economy, and deflation will happen. 

The saddest thing is that instead of just doing it like a bandaid and moving getting a recovery the fed is dooming us to 20+ years of pain.  Fed caused the problem, fed made it worse (the treasury bubble is another result of this as well as the deficit, if rates were real the government could not overspend like they are they cost of the debt would be much too high. thanks alan/ben etc)

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:25 | 3060665 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

BUBBLE IN GOLD. Let's have this discussion at around $5,500/oz. I don't want to hear no shit about bubbles in gold at this point.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:44 | 3060750 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Buy AAPL and USTbills. Our guru MillionDollarBonus_ says so!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:17 | 3060879 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I don’t get upset anymore at the continued attempts to push silver south.   I just buy the dips.   

Silver is a LONG term play.   The propaganda, the manipulations will all continue to work and they will keep the price low.  
This will work, right up until it doesn’t. At which point the price will DETONATE .....  

If silver  goes to $500 (hypothetical), would you rather it make a steady slow creep or just explode one day?   Since I am not anywhere finished buying, I’ll be happy with the non-skyrocketing price.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:07 | 3061944 San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

MDB is correct, from a purely trading aspect, the metals are very week and headed lower.  Buy phys when you can, but for traders a print of low $1600's is expected.  The Boyz will take advantage of this weakness, just like last December..check the chart, they will pound the prices.  Buy this dip if we get it.  This dip will be the last at these prices.

Merry Christmas


Fri, 12/14/2012 - 10:56 | 3062552 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

2400 GOLD BY 2013 September

merely discount pricing in the next 4 weeks before the sharp rise to 2000 and higher.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:47 | 3060227 SILVERGEDDON


Fucking morons.

How can you have any gold if you don't eat your paper fiat ?

Million Dollar Bonus strikes again. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:52 | 3060261 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it. For it was the stumbling block of their iniquity.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:54 | 3060266 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD.


NOT there yet bro...............................

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:00 | 3060297 SILVERGEDDON

News flash there religion boy. Paper investment will have you burning in hell long before metals holders get warmed up by you going up in flames.

Long on Burning Man shares........................ bitchez. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:39 | 3060483 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

was it Fred Flintstone or Barney Rubble that said that?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:02 | 3060312 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Comes like a thief in the night,, just saying.. do you KNOW the day the thief comes?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:16 | 3060367 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Comes like a thief in the night,, just saying.. do you KNOW the day the thief comes?

NO one knows the times son, you know that.

BUT certain things have to happen before the DAY you speak of.THat are in motion as we type, but NOT quite yet,'Now if your talikng the Catching Away, total diff ballgame from the Day of The LORD.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:30 | 3060445 Relentless
Relentless's picture

Any thief comes in the night near me and mine is going to be met with lead and steel

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:41 | 3060489 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Roger that. 25-06 with handloads; got ATT beat all to shit for "reaching out and touching someone". 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:40 | 3060488 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

The cuckold?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:00 | 3061586 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Armageddon already happened and we are the lucky descendents of those that survived. The fire and brimstone memories seem to have been burnt into our DNA....

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:57 | 3060284 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I would imagine that if the metals are exposed to radiation, they might be too hot to handle. Then tossing them in the streets really just makes the problem worse.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:38 | 3060479 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Well, I'd rather stumble on my iniquity, (whatever that means), than do a face plant and take a dirt nap forever because I followed your advice. But, whatever.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:44 | 3060508 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

FUCK THE WRATH OF THE LORD. Yeah, just like that; FUCK YOU GOD. Now come down here and do something about it, you non-existent brain fart.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:17 | 3061012 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

atheist or agnosticist?
i guess you agree FUCK RELIGION

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:27 | 3061035 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Sounds like a great guy.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:01 | 3060303 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Has no one seen the folly? Everyone here STILL measures g and s in ratio to fiat. When/if tshtf the day fiat dies,will anyone in their right mind take some shiny trinket in exchange for a hard asset? THINK about it.


Cash out now and BUY something tangible while the fiat still buys something.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:08 | 3060342 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Gold and silver are not tangible?

Get.The.Fuck.Out you retard...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:14 | 3060366 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Now yes.. but when/if the golden horde roams the country side it wont be worth anything unless melted down and made into bullets.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:50 | 3060529 laozi
laozi's picture

I welcome your fresh view on things. I admit that I am not prepared for a Mad Max scenario, but even there I doubt some gang leader would turn down a pile of gold.

In a slightly less critical situation, world trade would probably continue, and gold could probably be used as payment. This will hold demand up.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:16 | 3060878 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

LOL. How is having your head in the sand on currency destruction a "fresh view"?

This guy has no idea about gold and silver when it comes to a store of value. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:14 | 3060363 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

yes, they will take the shiny trinket just like has been done for 5,000 YEARS....

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:15 | 3060375 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Sorry, but the bible and I disagree

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:23 | 3060406 akak
akak's picture

I was not aware that the Bible encompasses all of human history.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:28 | 3060431 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Humans future is more important than the past. Want to know tomorrows headlines? Open the bible and take a peak. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:50 | 3060532 zuuma
zuuma's picture

I'll be handing out shiney, copper-colored, valuable trinkets to all the Golden Horders that come my way.

... 147gr each @ 2850 fps.


I know they'll be in a hurry, that's why I'll be handing 'em out fast.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:27 | 3060901 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I'm a firm believer in gun control. It's important to use both hands.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:31 | 3060910 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Everyone has a plan until you shoot them in the face.


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 18:49 | 3061071 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

OK, this new troll is not oe of mine, I wouldn't abuse the Bible to give credibility to my screename

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:26 | 3060422 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

the biblical passages you recite do not mean literally gold and silver.  It is a message to greedy money changing maggots (read bankers) that made peoples lives a living hell on earth....

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:35 | 3060465 Freddie
Freddie's picture

??  Is there a part in the Bible that teaches us how to make Claymores?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:52 | 3060541 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Of course.  It's in the Book of Armaments, a few passages after the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:10 | 3060612 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

haha - good one

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:53 | 3060788 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

The number of thee counting shall be... three no less nor more.  I'd feel better if we had Tim on our side.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:29 | 3060906 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I'd feel better if Monty Python was president.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:27 | 3060426 Freddie
Freddie's picture

5,000 years ago they were not able to lay down suppression fire with NATO 5.56x45 and NATO 7.62.  Bring it. 

Great avatar picture.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:15 | 3060373 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

I could measure PM's in terms of .223 and .308 rds, but

A: few dealers sell in those terms, and

B: Im not really willing to give up any ammo.

Now this silly green paper however; I have plenty of and there are still suckers willing to trade for it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:20 | 3060389 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

If you are totally set and have everything in place that is needed for the shtf, then by all means stack. BUT I suggest that is about the last thing on a survivalist list... If you have to flee the storm..whats it gona be? Guns ammo food water.. or  g/s? THINK about it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:27 | 3060428 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You're right..........I'm going to need some Sherpas to carry all of my PM's.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 19:26 | 3061146 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

That is an easy answer, which is the better value per weight to carry? You cant exactly be mobile carrying your wealth around in guns, lead, or brass. One ounce of gold will easily purchase you a gun and some ammo... and more.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:24 | 3060393 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Gold may be the only thing that will keep you out of the fema camp. 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:32 | 3060912 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

30-06 is pretty good at doing that too.  


Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:30 | 3060150 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Looks like normal free market action. I hope Blythe likes my christmas gift for her - a 1 year subscription to the debilitating disease of the month club.


Guess it's time to buy more (as it would be if it went up, or down).

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:30 | 3060152 AL_SWEARENGEN

Central bank cocksuckerz know Silver represents insolvency and death to them.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:32 | 3060154 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Both will be cheaper next week.  Wait to add to your stacks.  The PM Santa will be coming.  



Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:34 | 3060168 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

phyz prices still above $35. But that is if someone actually wanted to own it.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:50 | 3060247 DosZap
DosZap's picture

phyz prices still above $35. But that is if someone actually wanted to own it.

Where is it that high?,should be able to get it for $33.50+/-

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:55 | 3060270 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

depends on quantity. The big online sites I checked before posting were over $35. The place I buy from was as well. If someone sees it cheaper, good stuff.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:56 | 3060280 sharky2003
sharky2003's picture

ASE's are still around $35

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:59 | 3060298 PenchantForHoarding
PenchantForHoarding's picture

Grabbed a 100oz bar from Gainesville for low 33's a z.  If you avoid the "numismatic" stuff, it's still under a buck premiums.

We're not collecting Star Wars action figures... it's a commodity.  Who cares what it looks like if it's the .999...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 17:34 | 3060921 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

We're not collecting Star Wars action figures."  Yes, that's an interesting aspect isn't it. People get attached to the pretty picture on the their money thingy. I can just see it now; "no, no, don't sell that dairy cow to him, look my money thingy has a prettier picture on it".  Somehow, I don't think that's going to work; but who knows.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:17 | 3060374 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

APMEX Silver Eagles 2013...  $35-37 depending on quantity or method of payment....

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:57 | 3060555 DosZap
DosZap's picture

APMEX Silver Eagles 2013... $35-37 depending on quantity or method of payment....


IF you do not mind the $$$$$$ going downstairs to JPM(which is their bank).

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:46 | 3060226 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

You should be accumulating instead of bottom picking. The smart money is. The real bargains in the miners and they are your leveraged trade not the rigged options markets and ETF

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 14:49 | 3060242 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hear you man. My point is, if you want the real thing, it's not actually on sale as much as the paper instrument tells you it is.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:12 | 3060355 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I wonder if a phys gold dealer might not take some of his inventory off the shelves if he knows the prices are being temporarily smacked down.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 16:12 | 3060619 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

That would be my silver dealer you're talking 'bout... Delaying delivery for three weeks in a row now as prices are constantly monkeyhammered. Fukker! But this is EUSSR and there's no coin shops around...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 15:51 | 3060531 Boston
Boston's picture

Don't forget the caveat offered by Hugh Hendry---the more the prices of PM's soar, the greater the risk of nationalization of mining assets, and therefore impairment of cash flows

Hendry was long the metals, but short the miners.

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