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Marc Faber: "Paul Krugman Should Go And Live In North Korea"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

If there is one thing better than Marc Faber providing a free, must-watch (and listen) 50 minute lecture on virtually everything that has transpired in the end days of modern capitalism, starting with who caused it, adjustable rate mortgages, leverage, why did the Fed let Lehman fail, why was AIG bailed out, quantitative easing, Operation Twist, where the interest on the debt is going, which bubbles he is most concerned about, a discussion of gold and silver, and culminating with his views on a world reserve currency, is him saying the following: "The views of the Keynesians like Mr. Krugman is that the fiscal deficits are far too small. One of the problems of the crisis is that it was caused by government intervention with fiscal and monetary measures. Now they tells us we didn't intervene enough. If they really believe that they should go and live in North Korea where you have a communist system. There the government intervenes into every aspect of the economy. And look at the economic performance of North Korea." Priceless.

50 minutes of Faberian bliss:

Courtesy of TheBubbleFilm

 

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Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:24 | 3061655 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

When

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:30 | 3061669 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I like it!  Matching avatar and screen name.  You have a perfect balance.

Just for the fun of it -- the graphic of the week:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/graphiccc.png

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:31 | 3061681 Western
Western's picture

Marc Faber is a great human being. Krugman is a fuckin cro-mag.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:41 | 3061709 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Dec 13th.  Happy 54th Ben!  May your wildest dreams come true.   

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:54 | 3061741 ratso
ratso's picture

Marc faber is a moron.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:04 | 3061763 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

What's you net worth?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:49 | 3061858 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I Krugman = $5 trillion

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:12 | 3061882 flacon
flacon's picture

"modern capitalism" -> Phew... I am glad we found the culprit for our woes. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:38 | 3061899 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This is one my more substantive posts on the fraud that is Paul Krugman, and I wish ZH would do a headline article on the matter.

Krugman is out tonight with an op/ed claiming that there is no debt crisis because the demand for U.S. Treasuries is high, therefore indicating that the U.S. has the full confidence of investors who are buying its debt at record low (or nearly so) yields.

Really, Paul Krugman? You're a complete and total fraud, intentionally so. There's no way that you could possibly not know the % of U.S. Treasuries that are being outright purchased from Primary Dealers, who know that the Fed will purchase these from them and pay them a commission while they're at it.

In other words, Paul Krugman, demand is "so strong" for U.S. Treasuries at historically low yields that the Fed has been forced to step in as a huge buyer of said treasuries in order to try to prevent the yield from spiking.

How can anyone with an I.Q. above 100 not see Krugman for a complete and total fraud?

Krugman: The G.O.P.’s Existential Crisis

By Published: December 13, 2012

We are not having a debt crisis.

 

It’s important to make this point, because I keep seeing articles about the “fiscal cliff” that do, in fact, describe it — often in the headline — as a debt crisis. But it isn’t. The U.S. government is having no trouble borrowing to cover its deficit. In fact, its borrowing costs are near historic lows. And even the confrontation over the debt ceiling that looms a few months from now if we do somehow manage to avoid going over the fiscal cliff isn’t really about debt.

 

Now, calling Krugman out should be a trap for him to fall into. Don't go further than this.

He'll inevitably respond that corporate bonds and other sovereign bonds are low, also, so that these "competitors" to U.S. Treasuries also indicate further support for his claim that demand is strong across the board for debt.

What he won't admit, apparently, is that things are as they are because of the Fed's unprecendented purchasing of U.S. Treasuries, which the Fed itself announced as primary means of driving interest rates lower, and which other central banks around the globe soon emulated, thus creating an atmosphere whereby the yields on competing debt instruments, such as corporate bonds, could sink lower, also.

In other words, the low yield environment on U.S. Treasuries, foreign sovereign bonds, and corporate debt, is primarily a result of a Fed and central bank rigged market, and the Fed and other central reserve banks themselves announced this manipulation of the market as a monetary policy goal for years now, yet Krugman claims it's the result of efficient market forces, essentially.

I don't know of a bigger liar and fraud than Krugman. I doubt one exists.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:42 | 3061924 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Krugman = Baghdad Bob + a Nobel (LOL) Prize. Only difference is, Ol' Bob at least had a sense of style.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:27 | 3061954 knukles
knukles's picture

Bob had a sense of humor, too.
One of the last times the real Dr.K was here rambling on about some shit he got real mad at me and wouldn't answer questions.

When he does visit these sacred halls, have ya'll ever noticed it's very late at night, his ramblings make little sense are sorta disjointed, he evades direct commentary, attempts to convince everybody that we're on the same wavelength, fighting the same good fights, yet treats us as children?

Perhaps utilizing this audience as an escape wherein dreams of influence and grandeur seek reinforcement?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:40 | 3062046 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Marc Faber and Krugman both tell truths.

 

US had faked productivity growth and now deserve currency devaluation.

 

 

Marc Faber doesn't want banksters using victims to protect their cartel by getting bailed out in the name of homeowners and jobs for middle class.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 05:24 | 3062069 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Faber recognizes it is a cartel and doesn't mind calling a spade a spade.  At least you concede it exists.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:52 | 3062133 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

I don't care who you are.....that's some funny crap there!

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 09:11 | 3062229 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

OK, so do we take up the collection to send Krugman to North Korea, or do we just strap him to one of Kim Jong Un's rockets so that the two of them can smoke together?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 05:20 | 3062065 zhandax
zhandax's picture

How can anyone with an I.Q. above 100 not see Krugman for a complete and total fraud?

TIS, you are still measuring IQ on the gold standard.  I suspect grading has been commandeered by BLS.  Probably handed over in the 'No Child Left Behind' initiative.  Look around...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 08:30 | 3062159 Acet
Acet's picture

It's not even a real Nobel prize.

There is no such thing as a Nobel Prize for Economics, all there is is a Prize in honor of Alfred Nobel which is given by the Swedish Central Bank.

Alfred Nobel never set up a prize for Economics, probably because he thought it was not a real Science.

A bunch of economists set up a prize for Economics, misnamed it to be confused with a real Nobel Prize and proceeded to give it to each other. Kinda shows you just how honest they are, doesn't it!?

Krugman's prize is about as worthy as a (in the honor of Alfred) Nobel Prize for Sewage Treatment Technology or Astrology.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 08:34 | 3062165 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 Alfred Nobel hated economists

Though it might also have something to do with his wife the tryst she had with an economist, if my memory is not failing me

OT @Acet: here a comment I'd like to know your mind about

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 09:13 | 3062234 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Nobel never got married. As a mathematician I've heard the story a thousand times...that this is the reason there is no Nobel in math. But the man never married.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:49 | 3061930 fourchan
fourchan's picture

the fed is the only buyer.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:33 | 3062044 HD
HD's picture

Not yet - but damn close. Should be the number one story on the news every night...but not a word.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:40 | 3062047 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

fed is always the buyer...buyer of last resort...that's their job.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 10:15 | 3062403 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Yes currently. That was not their original mandate. It has changed over the years as liberalism has grown and infected all parts of government and culture. And you don't see that this is the problem which is why you get such negative thumbs down on most of your posts. The FRB stepping in, in my opinion and I would surmise the opinion of the vast majority here, disrupts and manipulates the free market system with horrid effects, such as creating bubbles in various sectors.

But go ahead and maintain your liberal view and I'll continue to tear it apart as I've done many times. The solution is not the FRB, not the Fed Government, but the people itself.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:05 | 3061943 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Its hard to believe he's as stupid as he talks. I think he is merely a political creature wrapped up as an "economist". Most of the crap he says is only believable if you are ignorant of economic history.

How many people know the Fed has been buying 70% of Treasuries? And that its now going to increase to 90%. He relies on people's ignorance. Sadly, there's no shortage of that among the sheep.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:52 | 3061970 Hapa
Hapa's picture

hard to imagine that Krugman is either that stupid, or so completely in the pocket of TPTB. Which is it?  It boggles the mind to ponder how people can be so clueless, yet promote themselves as experts....and for other to take their B.S. as meaningful.  I suppose the ability to delude oneself knows no bounds...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:05 | 3061978 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you all really want to get physically ill, go and read the comments from Krugman's literally cult-like fans/followers that flow in response to ANYTHING he writes, no matter how  massive a factual and logical fail it may be.

That is what a cult of personality looks like.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:24 | 3062041 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

actually North Korea has it right.

when they had a currency default, they shot the central banker.

then tried to pay off polish debt with ginseng root.

 

 

Krugman doesn't realize good intentions are not always enough. unfortunately, bailing out homeowners also means bailing out banker bonuses and punishing savers.

Faber wants pain now and get it over with.

Krugman wants to smooth out the pain but going to drag things out.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 08:55 | 3062187 unrulian
unrulian's picture

+1 for shooting the CB

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:54 | 3062006 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

As I recall the story, most of the townspeople were praising the Emperor's new suit of clothes.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:10 | 3062102 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Or perhaps the oft abused Occam's razor should be turned on its head.  The simplest explanation is that there's a conspiracy.

http://www.brotherjohnf.com/

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:15 | 3061986 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

No Paul, we have an idiot crisis.  When we started putting warning lables on the bleach to idiot proof the world, shit went down hill.  We have idiot proofed the world and now it is full of idiots.  Due to sheer number of idiots, some of them were bound to end up in charge, so here we are.

Doomed to forever be told by clueless hack "economists" that the .gov will save us all, so long as we spend enough of other people's money.  And when that runs out, we'll just print more of it.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:28 | 3062043 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

military super power + reserve currency = US government plays the role of world police....

 

when bankers make mistakes --> print bernanke bucks for US government --> military adventure --> put commodity producers in their place.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 12:08 | 3062813 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Give Deepskyy a gold star!!!

With only 7% of Detroit's 8th graders being grade proficient in reading, and 4% in math, there will be no economic "recovery". Instead there will be a HUGE dependent population (about 93% of the population and growing) in about 5 years in MI.

Overall, MI has only 32% proficiency in reading and 31% in math.

"Right to work?" I'd think that the MI teachers first need to be presented with dictionaries that mark the page and highlight the definition of the word "WORK" as they obviously have NO idea that they are supposed to be DOING something for the exorbitant salaries and benefits they get. (NOT "earn"!!!)

MI needs an educational "reset." FIRE THEM ALL, and just hand out vouchers to private schools. Even with massive fraud and theft of the vouchers, the outcomes CAN'T be worse!!! (And give cash-equivalent vouchers to parents who home school.)

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 08:18 | 3062153 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Seemingly in every conflict there are traitors who turn against their own people for personal gain.

Two possibilities:

1. Paul Krugman is a traitor to the human race

2. Paul Krugman is not a traitor to the human race

    a) he is not human

    b) there is something larger and non-obvious going on that he and only a very few people know about

    c) he is a mind control subject

I reject completely any arguement that he is too stupid to understand that what he is saying is a bunch of trash and false logic.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:01 | 3062562 Element
Element's picture

Well Krug-baby is tribal, it is what they do TiS.  ;\

Think it's reasonanble to suggest he's got a job to do.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 13:24 | 3062718 nofluer
nofluer's picture

I think I'll start referring to myself as an "economist." If Krugman can get away with saying that you can deal with deficit spending (debt creation) by borrowing (more debt creation), then anyone can be an economist.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:26 | 3061807 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

What a conundrum..

Will the "morons" exert more pressure to bring truth to its knees and resolution,

or will intelligent minds such as yours continue to jerkoff in circle style,

'til you win?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:38 | 3061837 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Anyone else fed up with the pop-up ads here, recently???

One Doge ad knocked me off the page....blank screen!

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:44 | 3061849 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Never seen one, though I've come across similar complaints by just a tiny minority, on rare occasions.

Are you using Chrome, by any chance?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:01 | 3061878 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Popup ads are here all the time. It is how ZH makes money. You can try adblock, it works for me but Tyler won't make anything from  your visit.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:45 | 3061927 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Been running the web through regular ol' Firefox with all the 'block ads' options I could find enabled - haven't seen a popup here or anywhere else in months.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:54 | 3061971 Hapa
Hapa's picture

adblock works, quick, easy to install

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:54 | 3061972 Hapa
Hapa's picture

adblock works, quick, easy to install

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:51 | 3062054 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Whats an ad? Learn how your computer works and you also will have no ads.

Then people wonder why we are in the mess we are in?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 08:58 | 3062194 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Internet settings...check pop-up blocker...fixed

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 12:12 | 3062824 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Pop ups? Never saw one. Also don't see most other ads. Delete Flash and block pop ups (in Firefox).

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:03 | 3061879 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Shhh. He came first third and fifth in the contest

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:24 | 3061909 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

Down arrows mean you're a fucking idiot.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 10:08 | 3062383 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

A moron like ratso has to call others a moron because a moron like ratso, can't understand logic and truth. Yea, a personal attack. Bring on your liberalism. I've dealt with it before on this website as others have seen. And I don't even agree with all of Faber's views. But I'll take the risk. I see easy game.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:13 | 3061778 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

The Cro-Mags don't deserve that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7eIQBCii_E

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:38 | 3062001 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

If they really believe that they should go and live in North Korea where you have a communist system. There the government intervenes into every aspect of the economy. And look at the economic performance of North Korea." Priceless.

Faber is the man!

One of the quotes of 2012 and probably 2013.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:33 | 3061687 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Courtesy of the one and only William Banzai: "QE BaSiC PRoCeSSeS: THe RoLE oF "PRiMaRY DeaLeRs""

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:40 | 3061708 realtick
realtick's picture

WB7 is on fire lately:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/expd/

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:04 | 3061761 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Lately? Banzai is always on fire. His imagination burns so hot he needs the embers of hell to cool him down.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:20 | 3061904 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

Banzai doesn't use sun screen. The sun uses Banzai screen.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:29 | 3061912 erg
erg's picture

Sir William Banzai dwells beneath Hell itself. Tartarus is his domain.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:46 | 3061716 A_S
A_S's picture

I like you tyler

i don't say that often, although, i'm drunk now

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:39 | 3061841 metastar
metastar's picture

Love man. Dude, there's so much love here on ZH.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:55 | 3061869 redpill
redpill's picture

Rule #69 of fight club: always double wrap when doing other members of fight club

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:49 | 3061723 old naughty
old naughty's picture

"Gulag Koreapelago" !!!

I beat Amerika.

By increasing to 1 in 2 (all) Koreans. Hehehe.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:57 | 3061937 fourchan
fourchan's picture

that chart is gold

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:01 | 3061753 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Has Ritholtz ever had an original thought?....just asking.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:06 | 3061766 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Why don't you go to his site and ask him.  What's that got to do with anything?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:22 | 3061797 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Why would I waste my time on his web site when I can get everything he pilfers from the original authors?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:08 | 3062101 resurger
resurger's picture

How come he didnt visit ZH yet

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:35 | 3061918 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

RockyRacoon why the fuck would anyone down vote you for pinning a graphic that is pretty darn accurate?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:31 | 3061957 knukles
knukles's picture

Some people got no taste

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:53 | 3061969 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Fight Club rules I guess.  Somebody got a cob up his ass.  Humor seems to be at a premium.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 06:26 | 3062082 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

They could replace college economic texts with that graphic and be done with Econ 101.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:29 | 3061670 So Close
So Close's picture

Love Marc, tell it like it is, Faber.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:51 | 3061729 old naughty
old naughty's picture

He always does, no.

Doom, gloom, and soon BOOM !

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:24 | 3061801 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Except that Krugman should go and die in North Korea.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:36 | 3061695 Orly
Orly's picture

Love the nick!  Literally laughed out loud!

Clueless Nobel Prize-winning Economist...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 09:50 | 3062327 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

Anybody that knows exactly WHEN, can become a billionarie.  But of course, that is the really hard part.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 12:58 | 3062994 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Tyler, the next time Faber quotes me .... I want a credit line .... jeeez ?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:25 | 3061657 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Please  so tired of his bullshit ....the central banks hold all the cards...

 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:31 | 3061679 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

52 jokers don't exactly allow for a strong hand.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:42 | 3061846 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

It does when you can conjure from the ether 5,000,000,000,000 aces at will.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:52 | 3061737 chump666
chump666's picture

No. They are dumb, the last of the deterministic, archaic, bizarre mad scientists.

Funniest thing I heard Faber say once, is that he wouldn't even let Bernanke mow his lawn.

hahahahahaha

ah f*ck yeah...more humor please.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:17 | 3061988 littleguy
littleguy's picture

what, what is this heretical post? You mean it's impossible to predict with absolute certainty the outcome of central planning interventions?? You are a fool, a mad man Sir. 

Krugman and co. know best. They have PhDs from MIT AND HARVARD!!!! oooooooh

 

fuck the lot of them.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:33 | 3061823 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The central banks can continue their machinations until they can't.

And can't may be sooner than they think.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 09:03 | 3062207 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Please so tired of his bullshit ....the central banks hold all the cards...

baaaaaa.....baaaaaaaa

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:26 | 3061658 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

thank you for posting this.   i'm a real Dr. Faber fan.   he is the man.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:31 | 3061683 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Good to see you lynnybee.  Hang in there momma.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:33 | 3061690 Orly
Orly's picture

I got to ask him a question via email on CNBCWorld once.  That was really cool.

Of course, it was three years ago and the question was something like whether it were possible for the Fed to take away the punch-bowl after the party.  He laughed and said, "Very good question."

That was cool.

:D

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:32 | 3061684 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Central Planning = communism

CentralBanks of the world are working together...

Do you think we are still a free market capitalist society?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:34 | 3061693 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Um, no.  What do I win?

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:42 | 3061844 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

A date with Miss Michigan?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:35 | 3061961 knukles
knukles's picture

A free all expenses paid 6 day 7 night holiday at The Colonic Club in beautiful Fresno, California complete with 3 enemas a day provided along with all meals, beverages and vegetable snacks.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:33 | 3061685 Esso
Esso's picture

Hell, I think I want to go live in NK. I just found out that smoking inside isn't a felony like here, and I'll betcha smokes aren't 5-10 bucks a pack.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:34 | 3061697 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Soylent Green 100s.  The smoke of the proletariat.  Literally.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:13 | 3061984 littleguy
littleguy's picture

If you don't work at Goldman, you're a prol.

 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:48 | 3061722 chump666
chump666's picture

lol

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:51 | 3061734 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

You tell 'em Marc Faber! Here is his long standing quote of fame.

"They will print and print and print, then they will take us to war. Against whom you ask? America will always find someone to go to war with!"

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:01 | 3061752 hairball48
hairball48's picture

"They will print and print and print, then they will take us to war. Against whom you ask? America will always find someone to go to war with!"

I suspect he'll be proven correct in the not too distant future.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:36 | 3061962 knukles
knukles's picture

Like it has to be reproven, again?
We're already there....

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:11 | 3061891 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

W. Churchill said of America (USA) that, "when all else fails, America does the right thing."

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:52 | 3061735 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Steve Forbes & Biderman: U.S. Tax Hike Worse Than No Fiscal Deal. New Year Could See Immediate Recession At Worst, Slower Growth At Best!

http://investmentwatchblog.com/steve-forbes-biderman-u-s-tax-hike-worse-than-no-fiscal-deal-new-year-could-see-immediate-recession-at-worst-slower-growth-at-best/

 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:55 | 3061743 chump666
chump666's picture

Add also, which is locked in, energy, food and insurance spikes for 2013.  No matter what those morons come up with, pain will be felt.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 22:55 | 3061744 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The fiscal cliff is a hoax. Anyone tell me how we sustain America if we do not CUT SPENDING and INCREASE REVENUE.

We can not always spend more than we take in. The fiscal cliff is, in reality, the only sensible course. If that takes America into recession, then it proves that money printing, borrowing and government overspending are all that keeps this American economy afloat.

That is not an economy, it is a communist economy.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:23 | 3061773 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It kills me how they make a big deal out of it. So let me get this straight .......If we hit the fiscal cliff we get higher taxes and spending cuts....but their solution is going to be ...drum roll please....higher taxes and spending cuts....fucking idiots.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:36 | 3061831 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Its actually a false economy in other words a great big Facade

 a false, superficial, or artificial appearance or effect

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/10-signs-we-live-in-false-economy.html

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:25 | 3062596 Element
Element's picture

MMT Jack ... you're soaking it it ... hmm ... pretty green ...

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:05 | 3061762 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

I say you arrest Krugman, Bernanke and all his fans and you deport them to NKorea.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:05 | 3061765 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

Marc Farber sounds like Dr. Evil.

I wonder if he moved to Thailand for the girls.

Lots of old men with funny accents live in that country.

He fits right in.

Peace.

http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2012/12/yesterday-dragon-lady-cooked-barbecue.html

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:17 | 3061787 AssFire
AssFire's picture

NO. Take him to Detroit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDDYQlmq0w

 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:30 | 3061815 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I hereby volunteer to pack Krugman's parachute

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 09:58 | 3062345 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Well make sure you fill it with the worst coke you can find.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:30 | 3061816 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

OK. I'm gonna go and throw this regardless of the expected down arrows.

 

I think the reason why the Bernank has hooked his printer to Employment and Inflation targets is a way for him to say "fuck you, sincerely" to Congress. In other words, knowing there is no exit strategy from his policies, he's trying to create a personal exit strategy to save his legacy by tying his policy to something that Congress, the Fiscal Cliff and Businesses in general can share the blamed for: "I didn't print that, someone else made me do it".

 

Of course, most probably, there might be more reasons than one:

 

1 - Create an equity and bonds supportive environment where badder news is gooder news (good strategy if news are expected (to be allowed) to get worse)

2 - Help the Obam' get his way and to put a floor under equities if we go over the Cliff (going over cliff > worse fundamentals expected > go to step 1)

3 - Good strategy if goalseeked unemployment rate waterboarding has come to its useful limit (inflation rates are much easier to manipulate)

4 - Create a managed crisis period (~ 3 mos) where all the problems (fiscal cliff, unemployment, ...) can be superfecially defined, brought under flickering light and optically dealt with and resolved once and for all so that the sky is the limit afterwards (for the DOW) - think Europe since last crisis.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:58 | 3061873 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

"I think the reason why the Bernank has hooked his printer to Employment and Inflation targets is a way for him to say "fuck you, sincerely" to Congress. In other words, knowing there is no exit strategy from his policies, he's trying to create a personal exit strategy to save his legacy by tying his policy to something that Congress, the Fiscal Cliff and Businesses in general can share the blamed for: "I didn't print that, someone else made me do it"."

Let's imagine for the moment Bernanke knows and understands that he cannot win by printing forever - that having seen Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe and recent Argentina times X he has come to realize the truth. Let us further imagine he realizes that he cannot escape blame if the economy craters, the inflation rates shoot to the moon and the currency collapses. What else could he do?

The truth may be that he now sees himself as a victim - running a fiat currency when an out-of-control Congress and Administration spend endlessly, leaving him awash in endless debt that he must securitize in order to keep the Ponzi going. Further, the eat-the-rich policies of this Administration (combined with crony capitalism, which creates few jobs and few opportunities for growth) lead inexorably to debt-driven failure and societal collapse. What can he do?

Bernanke deserves whatever happens to him, and I'm thinking dark alleys and days of torture at best, with being "vanished" along with his family and friends and never seen again at worst. But if he took this job thinking he was dealing with sane, arguable people who could be persuaded to act rationally in logical argument along real world supply-and-demand economics lines, he was lied to and used.

We are screwed; those in power are not in control, and are finding that out. Once the really bad effects of overspending and budget deficits hit, it's not going to get better. Best to admit defeat, cut government spending until it matches real revenues, and take the pain now - delay will not reduce it, and ignoring it will not make it go away.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 06:43 | 3062091 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah ~ Poor little ol innocent 'Shalom', stuck between a rock & a hard place & surrounded by evil out of control wrongdoers lurking at every corner...

I see a Spielberg movie in the making... You know ~ to get the story RIGHT... For history & all...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:17 | 3062109 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Bernanke does what the puppet masters tell him, and is paid handsomely to do so.  I doubt he gives a flying fork what anyone thinks, and he won't vanish because the people who wish him harm don't know where he lives.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:32 | 3061819 wisefool
wisefool's picture

This is an old interview, talking about the election in the future tense.  (mark roughly 30:00) Something I think is timely, is this week on abc MSM mary matalin and james carvill were on broadacast T.V. and she handed krugman the hat in the only way you can do to a guy with a phd in keynesianism and a nobel peace price (sic)

regarding the fiscal cliff "Are you a potelemist, or an economist?"

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:37 | 3061829 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

government intervention with fiscal and monetary measures

Funny, I don't seem to remember any part of the US's 11 carrier groups postured or positioned to influence the FED.

 

Along with not using the word BUY when it comes to the FEDs QE4EVA initiatives, lets please also stop talking about how the government intervenes with monetary anything.

No, I am not trashing Faber, BTW, just the lingo.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:39 | 3061840 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Krugman should go pitch a tent on the "Diaoyu Islands", and hand out twinkies to the Chinese and Japanese patrol boats that pass by...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:13 | 3062603 Element
Element's picture

He could pull a new moon out of his arse and they'd both a have enough sterile rock to enjoy.

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:41 | 3061845 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Lets take a look at Japan

Japan's debt, fiscal deficit not sustainable: IMF(AFP) – Feb 8, 2011 

"A rapidly aging population, entrenched deflation and a feeble economy have made it hard for lawmakers to curb borrowing, with years of pump priming creating a debt load that is well on course to exceed 200 percent of GDP"

That was a year ago with no end in sight I am sure it will end well SARC

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:15 | 3062605 Element
Element's picture

Complete this sentence:

 

"Don't under-estimate the power of ..."

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:45 | 3061851 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I want to know how North Korea is "communist".

Do you mean to tell me that the ruling elite of North Korea share the same income and way of life as do the ordinary citizens of that country? Because THAT is what true communism entails.

The same with China. The same with the old Soviet Union. Explain to me - a political science major and economic theory wonk - how these countries ever were or are communist.

Hint: YOU CAN'T.

A country/party can call itself whatever it wants to. It doesn't make it so just because it does. The Republican Party isn't for a "republican" form of government, any more than the Democrat Party is for a "democratic" form of government.

They're labels. Self-ascribed labels. Which makes them suspect from the beginning.

You ask: Then what is the best form of government? I reply: One without political parties.

Stick that in your Founding Fathers hat and smoke it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:16 | 3061898 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

You mean like when people say that the system we got in the western world is capitalism?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:22 | 3061905 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Precisely.

Because it isn't. It's corporatism, i.e., fascism. The same as it has been since the 1870s.

Did I just pop some minds there? I truly hope so.

Oh, but you say we fought fascist regimes early in the 20th century? Tell me - who fared the best after those wars: The people, or the corporations?

Hint: It wasn't the people.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 06:48 | 3062093 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Everything is just glorified serfdom in one form or another...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:10 | 3061983 littleguy
littleguy's picture

J. H Christ. Communism is a myth. It's the practice that actually matters. And this entails that the 'tards in charge take the piss. The prols are an unfortunate waste of space.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 06:50 | 3062094 smacker
smacker's picture

Thanks for exposing the deep duplicity within communism.

Communism never was a model of equality, fairness, justice or anything like that. That was (and still is) just claptrap & pap to fool the masses. It was only ever a model where one gang of power-crazed, despotic thugs seize control of all other groups of thugs, slaughtering them as necessary to eliminate dissent. The educated and intelligent are always the greatest risk to the commie thugs, so they become the first targets for elimination.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 10:05 | 3062374 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Capitalism never was a model of competition, efficiency, or anything like that. That was (and still is) just claptrap & pap to fool the masses. It was only ever a model where one gang of power-crazed, despotic thugs seize control of all other groups of thugs, leveraging them as necessary to eliminate competition. The educated and intelligent are always the greatest risk to the capitalists, so they become the first targets for assimilation.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:25 | 3062665 smacker
smacker's picture

Wrong. You're conflating open free market capitalism which is none of those things -vs- the crony capitalism that is now widely practiced across the world. Directly due to corrupt political elites and their central bank puppets becoming involved and creating what really amounts to state-corporate capitalism, ie fascism.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 10:02 | 3062355 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Some animals have always been more equal than others.

 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:46 | 3061854 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Faber summarized everything the average hedgetard here knows and has been saying for 3 years. Maybe he posts here? "Dr. Engali" perhaps? Or "akak"? 

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:52 | 3061862 magpie
magpie's picture

Won, bitchez

Thu, 12/13/2012 - 23:59 | 3061875 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

They'd love North Korea. I heard they have they're own version of the Clown buck there. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:08 | 3061887 smiler03
Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:25 | 3061910 A Dollar Short
A Dollar Short's picture

What a crock of Krug, man.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:47 | 3061928 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Krugman makes a good socialist. He would have comfortable in the north Korean system. A government like that could polish his ego by giving him awards all the time.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 00:50 | 3061932 Undecided
Undecided's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEYQ46gH08

 

Hey Tyler here is a documentary you might like on the economies of the Balkens

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:08 | 3061982 Induced Coma
Induced Coma's picture

So so sad. Why do people allow this kind of interference and corruption. Fucked up world we live in.

IC

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:39 | 3062045 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Its good to be king? Bad to not be?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 01:54 | 3061967 newengland
newengland's picture

So suddenly, North Korea is the focus of attention. Interesting...

Faber is a rootless cosmopolitan, not to be trusted by any Republic. His sort bankrupted the West, and now he wants an easy exit.

A man ought to be judged by his loyalty to the Republic,  not his bank balance, a transient thing of no lasting consequence.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:08 | 3061980 littleguy
littleguy's picture

wrong, haha

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:36 | 3062708 Element
Element's picture

You figured out you're on the internet yet? This ain't the 'Republic' of Kansas any more statist dupe.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:00 | 3061975 q99x2
q99x2's picture

That was really nice. I liked the beginning. It gave me the feeling of one of the last people on earth telling the story of how it ended.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 02:17 | 3061989 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

As stated various times, strange faces will begin surfacing out of nowhere. After the gantlet of Hollyweird figureheads goes dry, newfangled shadowy characters will enter the stage. Dispatch will be the same, appearances will become changed.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 03:55 | 3062032 Quarky Gluon
Quarky Gluon's picture

Mr Faber should realize that much of North Korea's economic malaise can be traced to the fact that the country has very little arable land and also that it is not a true communist state but rather it is a tyrannical monarchy where everything must be sacrificed not for the sake of the community but rather for the sake of the emperor.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:13 | 3062103 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Oh, yes, if only it were a 'true' Communist state, then it would be prospering.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 11:20 | 3062639 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

“Under the guidance of our leader, Comrade Napoleon, I have laid five eggs in six days”

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:12 | 3062036 Pareto
Pareto's picture

After I listened to Bernanke's double speak yesterday and his followup willingness to throw all caution to the wind with, pinning his hopes on the Phillips curve (which was thrown out long ago, since shit...i can't even remember), it was the creepiest moment ever.  He basically front ran everybody (especially Japan) by claiming a sort of victory in getting to the front of the currency devaluation line.  "ha ha, we were here first fuckers."  Its not even a fucking line in the sand.  Its absolute wreckelss abandonment of all economic and moral principles.  Like a batshit crazy fucking monkey banging pots and pans and shitting all over the place.  Its fucking goofy.  i'm going to close out every long.  Fuck it.  Because the longer I remain in, the more I feel a party to it, or implicitly endorse the insanity. Ha.  I know there will be some ZH's saying, "thats it everybody, back the truck up!"  Regardless, I feel the the expected value of loss just got incredibly larger.  I don't feel as though any forward gains are going to be even remotely attractive enough to compensate for 4 standard deviation correction that must inevitably occur, not because I think the world is going to end, but, because you can't keep a chimp in charge of shit and expect that everything is going to be ok.

So, I don't think I can play along side the little fucker because sooner or later I know he's going to throw his own shit in my face.  When I least expect it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:34 | 3062118 DollarDive
DollarDive's picture

My sentiments exactly..... I left in 2008

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 04:58 | 3062055 liszt
liszt's picture

The crisis is not due to keynesians, who are in fact the people who do the only thing that can be done to save the economy (what else ?). The crisis is due to Van Mises, Friedman and all neo-conservative idiots, and by the way the crisis started since 1973 : since this date we have no full employement. I wonder how on ZH you can go so wrong, you don't have any clue, nor any understanding either.

Ah yeah, and tomorrow morning we will have hyperinflation isn't it Mr Tyler Durden ? Sure... this was such one of your great view upon economics Mr Tyler ! Such a genius. And greetings to Ron Paul ! Certainly another genius.

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:43 | 3062125 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

There are a lot of predictions made here on ZH, many times a day.  Occasionally, one of them proves correct.  I suppose if you predict everything, you can't be wrong.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 05:01 | 3062058 liszt
liszt's picture

Some people here comes frome the time of McCarthyism.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 07:16 | 3062105 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Others from the time of a 19th century drunkard son of a Jewish rabbi.

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