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Newtown, CT Elementary School Shooting Tally Rises To 27 Dead, Of Whom 20 Children - Live Video

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Update 4: the NYT has released a brief biopic on Lanza's, who it turns out had Asperger's Syndrome:

He carried a black briefcase to his 10th-grade honors English class, and sat near the door so he could readily slip in and out. When called upon, he was intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.

 

Pale, tall and scrawny, Adam Lanza walked through high school in Newtown, Conn., with his hands glued to his sides, the pens in the pocket of his short-sleeve, button-down shirts among the few things that his classmates recalled about him.

 

He did all he could to avoid attention, it seemed.

 

Until Friday.

 

The authorities said Mr. Lanza, 20, wearing combat gear, carried out one of the deadliest mass shootings in the nation’s history. He killed 20 children and six adults at the elementary school where his mother worked, they said. He then apparently turned his gun on himself. The police said he also earlier killed his mother.

 

In his brief adulthood, Mr. Lanza had left few footprints, electronic or otherwise. He apparently had no Facebook page, unlike his older brother, Ryan, a Hoboken, N.J., resident who for several hours on Friday was misidentified in news reports as the perpetrator of the massacre.

 

Adam Lanza did not even appear in his high school yearbook, that of the class of 2010. His spot on the page said, “Camera shy.” Others who graduated that year said they did not believe he had finished school.

 

Matt Baier, now a junior at the University of Connecticut, and other high school classmates recalled how deeply uncomfortable Mr. Lanza was in social situations.

 

Several said in separate interviews that it was their understanding that he had a developmental disorder. They said they had been told that the disorder was Asperger syndrome, which is considered to be a high functioning form of autism.

 

“It’s not like people picked on him for it,” Mr. Baier said. “From what I saw, people just let him be and that was that.”

 

One former classmate who said he was familiar with the disorder described Mr. Lanza as having “very flat affect,” adding, “If you looked at him, you couldn’t see any emotions going through his head.”

 

Others said Mr. Lanza’s evident discomfort prompted giggles from those who did not understand him.

 

Law enforcement officials said Friday that they were closely examining whether Mr. Lanza had such a disorder.

More here. Indeed, there is a statistical predisposition, at least anecdotally, for those with Asperger's toward both murder and violence.  In other words, watch as the debate rages over the traditional bogeyman of gun control, in a country with over three hundred million weapons, when we may well simply be talking about a mentally ill young adult.

As for the misidentified Ryan, who for a few brief hours was presented by law enforcement as the suspected shoorter, we learn from the WSJ:

Israel raids Palestinian NGO officesKatie Colaneri, a 24-year-old resident of Hoboken, N.J., described herself as a friend of Ryan, the suspect’s brother who for hours Friday was incorrectly identified as the alleged gunman. “He [is] a little shy, but very nice and sweet,” said Ms. Colaneri, who has known Ryan for over a year.

 

She said Ryan is a gentle guy who was  devoted to his job at the Ernst & Young accounting firm. A representative for Ernst & Young would not comment on his employment status.

 

A law-enforcement official briefed on the investigation told the Associated Press that Ryan has been “extremely co-operative” and is not under arrest, although he was still being question late Friday.

 

The official said Ryan’s computers and phone records were being searched but only “in an abundance of caution.” Ryan told authorities he had not been in touch with his brother Adam in recent years, and the official said he isn’t believed to have any connection to the school killings.

 

In Hoboken, Ryan lives in a newer building that was hard-hit by superstorm Sandy, Ms. Colaneri said. He lost power for a number of days following the storm.

 

The last time she saw him, about a month ago, Ms. Colaneri recalled that Ryan ran up to her and gave her a hug.  ”I’m really shocked,” she said. “As the details unfolded, I was totally devastated.”

Update 3: ABC has released a picture of the real shooter, Adam Lanza, taken in 2005 when he was ~13 years old.

Update 2 : NY Post now refuting CNN's initial report, and stating that the shooter's real name is Adam Lanza, not Ryan Lanza, who is instead brother of the latter. At this point there appears to be a ridiculous amount of confusion who did what, so it perhaps would be prudent on behalf of the authorities to double check this information before releasing it to the media. And just out from AP:

The AP confirms this further here:

The suspect in the Connecticut school shootings is Adam Lanza, 20, the son of a teacher at the school where the shootings occurred, a law enforcement official said Friday. A second law enforcement official says the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, is presumed dead.

 

Adam Lanza's older brother, Ryan, 24, of Hoboken, N.J., is being questioned by police, said the first official. Earlier, a law enforcement official mistakenly transposed the brothers' first names.

 

Both officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record about the developing criminal investigation.

 

The first official said Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

 

According to the second official, the suspect drove to the scene of the shootings in his mother's car. Three guns were found at the scene — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols — and a .223-caliber rifle. The rifle was recovered from the back of a car at the school. The two pistols were recovered from inside the school.

 

The official also said Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey.

 

Meanwhile, former Jersey Journal staff writer Brett Wilshe said he has spoken with Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, who told Wilshe the shooter may have had Ryan Lanza's identification.

 

Ryan Lanza has a Facebook page that posted updates Friday afternoon that read that "it wasn't me" and "I was at work."

Update: According to CNN the shooter's name is Ryan Lanza, out of New Jersey. Based on a White Pages reverse lookup there is an 18-24 year old Ryan Lanza living in Hoboken, NJ whose FaceBook profile lists Newtown, CT as his home city. Whether it is the same person remains to be confirmed officially.

 

* * *

Sadly, increasingly it appears that not a day, and certainly not a week can pass, in the US without news of some mass killing somewhere. Several days ago its was a mall in Oregon, and today it is a shooting rampage at the Sandy Hook Elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. Here is what is known: the shooter, who CBS reports is a 20 year old from New Jersey, is reported to be dead. A second shooting suspect, a 24 year old man with a bulletproof vest and 4 guns has been apprehended in custody (this has subsequently been not confirmed). According to CBS 27 people are dead, of whom 18, Connecticut Post 27 people are dead, of whom 20 tragically, children. Among the dead are the principal and the school psychologist. The AP has already dubbed it "the worst school tragedy in American history."

Live webcast via NBC:

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Clips:

Pictures from the scene via Reuters

* * *

Live streaming updates on everything Newtown related can be found on the Reuters website here.

More from Reuters:

 At least 27 people, including 18 children, were killed on Friday when at least one shooter opened fire at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, CBS News reported, citing unnamed officials.

 

If confirmed, it would be one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history. The holiday season tragedy follows a series of shooting rampages in the United States this year that have killed multiple victims, and it was certain to revive a debate about U.S. gun laws.

 

The principal and school psychologist were among the dead, CNN said. Witnesses reported hearing dozens of shots with some saying as many as 100 were fired.

 

The suspected shooter, 24, was armed with four weapons and wearing a bullet-proof vest, WABC reported.

 

There were unconfirmed reports of a second shooter.

 

Another person was being held in police custody after he was detained in the woods near the school wearing camouflage pants, CBS reported.

 

Sandy Hook Elementary School teaches children from kindergarten through fourth grade - roughly ages 5 to 10.

 

"It was horrendous," said parent Brenda Lebinski, who rushed to the school where her daughter is in the third grade. "Everyone was in hysterics - parents, students. There were kids coming out of the school bloodied. I don't know if they were shot, but they were bloodied."

 

Television images showed police and ambulances at the scene, and parents rushing toward the school. Parents were seen reuniting with their children and taking them home.

 

"This is going to be bad," a state official told Reuters, requesting anonymity because the scope of the tragedy remained uncertain.

 

President Barack Obama was notified and would receive regular updates throughout the day, White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

 

"We're still waiting for more information about the incident in Connecticut," Carney said when asked about the president's reaction to it.

 

Carney called the event "tragic" and said there would be time later for a discussion of policy implications.

 

Obama remains committed to trying to renew a ban on assault weapons, Carney said.

 

All Newtown schools were placed in lockdown after the shooting, the Newtown Public School District said.

 

Lebinski said a mother who was at the school during the shooting told her a "masked man" entered the principal's office and may have shot the principal. Lebinski, who is friends with the mother who was at the school, said the principal was "severely injured."

 

Lebinski's daughter's teacher "immediately locked the door to the classroom and put all the kids in the corner of the room."

 

Danbury Hospital, about 11 miles (18 km) west of the school, had received three patients from the scene, a hospital spokeswoman told NBC Connecticut. The mayor of Danbury, Mark Boughton, told MSNBC: "They are very serious injuries."

An early report from CBS:

A shooting at a Connecticut elementary school Friday left several children and the gunman dead, law enforcement sources tell CBS News. At least one teacher was wounded in the shooting that sent frightened pupils into the parking lot.

 

It is unclear if there was more than one gunman at the school.

 

Law enforcement sources told CBS News senior correspondent John Miller that preliminary and unconfirmed information indicates that the shooter was the father of a student.

 

The shooter was killed and apparently had two guns, a person with knowledge of the shooting told The Associated Press. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still under way.

 

It wasn't clear how many people were injured at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown. CBS Hartford affiliate WFSB-TV reports around 600 students attend the school.

 

Connecticut State Police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance described the situation to CBS New York station WCBS-AM as a "very serious school shooting."

 

A dispatcher at the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps said a teacher had been shot in the foot and taken to Danbury Hospital.

 

Stephen Delgiadice said his 8-year-old daughter heard two big bangs and teachers told her to get in a corner. His daughter was fine.

 

"It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he said.

 

Lisa Bailey, a Newtown resident with three children in Newtown schools, told CBSNewYork.com, "Newtown is a quiet town. I'd never expect this to happen here. It's so scary. Your kids are not safe anywhere."

 

The superintendent's office said the district had locked down schools in Newtown, about 60 miles northeast of New York City. Schools in neighboring towns also were locked down as a precaution.

 

State police said Newtown police called them around 9:40 a.m.

 


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Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

That you're giddy at all today is offensive.  There's no point in arguing the gun issue with people like you who do not subscribe to logic or facts.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

You have a difficult time deciphering passages longer than four words, eh mayhem_korner?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Yes, that's me. TP.  At the low end of the IQ pool.  You smoked me out.  What am I to say in the face of such words as "decipher" and "four"?

Get back to me when you have something of substance to say, s'il vous plait.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Let it go Mayhem, not all people can be reached and not our job to do so. 

Anything other than absolute grief right now is overkill.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:05 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Good counsel, my friend.  Thx.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hey kito...it''s good to see you're still around. Fonz and I thought you may have taken the juicy steak and slid back into the matrix. Either that or the black helicopters came and swooped you up.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

(I thought helicopters)

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

ha ha, come on helicopters??? i love amerika.. er...uh...america!!!!

just took a break...getting wrapped up in this wears you down...makes you forget there ARE wonderful aspects to life in america, and that we should live them thoroughly while there still is a country ;)

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

.............and then shit like this today happens.

Everybody has to take a break from ZH, maybe it's my turn.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

Fuck me. This brought me back. What does that say?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:05 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Smart move. don't be a stranger though. it scares the rest of us.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:09 | Link to Comment unrulian
unrulian's picture

+ 100

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 09:04 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Please don't use the Orwellian phrase "gun control" unless you are referring to a good grip and smooth trigger pull.

Force the gun grabbers to use "anti gun rights" or other more accurate but less palatable labels.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 09:06 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

I thought I was replying to Kito?  Oh, well.  I must have been distracted by my unhealthy lust for cold, blue steel.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

holy fuck...as a father of young kids this brings tears to my eyes

besides the dead and their families, how many lives are ruined? how many wont be able to sleep? how many nightmares will these innocent kids have for the rest of their days?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

I'm going to give my kids an extra-long and extra-tight hug tonight, as I imagine many other parents will do. This is simply tragic.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

agreed...cant wait to see my little guys later

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 18:27 | Link to Comment forexskin
forexskin's picture

just got mine. the 11 year old asked if i'd heard, but i'm putting this off until mom is home too. just listening to them on the way home, i heard the words kill or dead 50 times or more.

mainly i just want them to know their mom and i will take care of them in the best way possible.

i just can't imagine how 20+ families are going to get through tonight...

this just so sux.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture

These types of "events" would be much more common if the terrorists were real / here in the US.

Unfortunately this will be politicized.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I hesitate in writing this for fear of adding grief to those whose lives have been ruined but in the wake of the latest SCOTUS decision, how can one not think MK ULTRA.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is the end of it. You think you lived in a police state before? END. OF. IT. People are going to beg to have their neighbors arrested for owning weapons and their conversations bugged and there won't be enough drones to make people feel safe.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment NevadaMirage
NevadaMirage's picture

This is it, this will be what brings about a new Federal gun ban. When you get kids involved, emotion trumps all.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I refuse to be held accountable for the individual acts of a psychopath. Why is it that no one attempts to take my drivers license away when a drunk kills a family of six on the fucking highway? (which happens with much more frequency)

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment dynomutt
dynomutt's picture

Breathalyzers in cars.  Yes, the scumbags have thought of just about everything.

 

The scumbags are breaking eggs for the NWO omelette.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

If there is a push for a gun ban, why not?  I'm actually all for it, total disarmament.  Think of what an awesome world we would live in with no guns, of course we need to start the disarmament with the military and cops as they are responsible for most of the gun violence and we work our way down from there.  Then think of the military cost savings if we no longer need to spend money on weapons.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Ban the manufacture of any and all weapons of mass destruction.

Knives and rocks may kill people - that is true. But you can't kill anybody from very far away with either.

Unless you drop them from a mult-story building onto somebody. That would work, but it also requires effort.

Pulling a trigger or pushing a button from long range doesn't require much effort.

Make killing somebody personal again. This impersonal slaughter makes it easier to accept as a culture.

Did I use the word "culture"? I'm sorry. I shouldn't have. Using that word in reference to a society would actually infer that there is indeed culture to be found amongst its masses. Here, in the Fascist States of Amerikkka, there is no culture.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment unrulian
unrulian's picture

ever seen a machette massacre?...perhaps somalia is more cultured in your books

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

You can outrun somebody wielding a machete, far better than you can outrun somebody wielding a firearm.

Try again.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

Nevertheless, the nutcases in China and in Japan run into classrooms with knives

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I'd rather confront a knife nut than a gun nut hell-bent on wanton slaughter.

Would you not?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Apparently you aren't familiar (enough) with the likes of Delta Force and Navy Seals...maybe try reading a few Vince Flynn novels.  Assuming you can read, that is.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Of course, those little kids would of been able to fight back if he had just had a knife...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

"You better run, better run, faster than my bullets..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDTZ7iX4vTQ

Fuck pop culture. Fuck the media for sensationalizing these animals. Fuck anyone who could use this tragedy to further a personal agenda.

God bless the families that are suffering.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I'd rather confront a knife nut than a gun nut hell-bent on wanton slaughter.

Would you not?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:26 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

...echoing a familiar argument that with a gun you can confront the criminal with a gun *who would have had the gun despite any bans, just reminding you that in some parts of your country the law enforcement already has given up or is being downsized and has to leave insecurity and security to the private citizen.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:20 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

THE DAY THE WORLDS MILITARIES AND POLICE DISARM, IS THE DAY THE CITIZENS CAN DISARM.....UNTIL THEN THE 2ND AMENDMENT ALLOWS FOR CHECKS AND BALANCES TO PROTECT CITIZENS FROM NOT ONLY OTHER CITZENS, BUT FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS ALLEGEDLY SUPPOSED BE OF THE PEOPLE. ....FUNNY HOW THE GUN CONTROL ADVOCATES DONT DISCUSS THE TRAGEDY OF OPPRESSED SOCIETIES AROUND THE WORLD.....SOCIETIES WHERE THE CITIZENS ARE COMPLETELY HELPLESS AS THEIR GOVERNMENTS TORTURE/RAPE/KILL AT WILL.................OR PERHAPS WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THE TRAGEDIES IN SOCIETIES WHO ARE HELPLESS AS GUERRILLAS OR REBEL GROUPS ROAM THE COUNTRY RAPING AND PILLAGING AT WILL......NAAAHH, BETTER TO GIVE UP MORE FREEDOM TO THE GOVERNMENT, LET THEM CONTROL EVERYTHING, RESTRICT EVERYTHING TO MAKE US ALL "SAFER"........YES, LETS TRADE THE PRINCIPLES OF THIS COUNTRY FOR MORE SAFETY......SEEMS LIKE A FAIR TRADE-OFF................

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

The guy with a knife can always get the jump on you in a million ways dumbass.

Banning guns only makes you feel safer, for a little while.

Then, if you arent dumb as a fucking rock like you seem to be, the growing awareness of what little you can do to defend yourself agains a small gang of people makes you realize that you will then be much less safe.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:47 | Link to Comment Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

7 meters, or so. Anyone inside that circle should be evaluated.

Edit: Actually, everyone should be evaluated as a possible threat. Have a nice day.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:06 | Link to Comment dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

Between 500,000 and a million died in Rwanda during the genocide.  Most were hacked to death with machetes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

Damn right, ban it all!  All items that can be used as a weapon, including stones.  For those Bible believers out there, first murder was with a stone, clearly a tool for evil.  Hell fists could be used to kill people, we need a total hand ban!

Though as to making it up close and person, seems Rome and all cultures in the past were remarkably cool with up close and personal killing.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Are you enjoying your little foray into Logical Fallacy land, riding along that Slippery Slope?

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/slippery-slope/

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

TP...just a note: ats of 13:52, you had not up-arrowed yourself.  Pretty much all of your other posts have one lonely green arrow, which earns you a failing grade for subtlety.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

It is hilarious that TP improperly cites the slippery slope argument to refute the logic that guns should not be banned, but then below, actually employs the logical fallacy himself by suggesting that everyone should be armed at birth.

There is no need to argue with this idiot--it is enough to watch him self destruct all on his own.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Do you mean personal like this?

 

Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China

 

 

 

http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment DeadFinks
DeadFinks's picture

You may as well make killing somebody illegal again.  How it's done doesn't make much difference.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:04 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

unless you're a banker

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

Were it to happen, the only change would be that the headline would read:  Madman kills children with baseball bat, or some such.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yeah, but then there would be a surge in sword and knife sales.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Clearly, if all of these young children had only been armed, this terrible tragedy could have been averted.

Guns for everybody at birth! Then, instead of sending them to school when they are five, line them up at a firing range to begin to learn to shoot them.

Instead of food and water, all we need is ammo for our guns.

Guns and sports. That's all this society is about.

We don't need no education.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

That this happened in a "Gun Free School Zone" is too ironic for you to contemplate - eh, Pointless?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Oooh! A sign is going to stop a whack job from taking a gun into a building!

Why did I not think of that?

Guns don't kill people - signs do.

I see that now.

Thank you, docj.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

Well, yeah - that was kind of my point. Which, apparently, sailed right over your head.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Sorry. The only point I see is the one on your otherwise flat head.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment moroots
moroots's picture

"A sign is going to stop a whack job from taking a gun into a building!"

Just like a law is going to stop a whack job from acquiring a gun in the first place.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:23 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

You're wasting your time.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

No. Not a waste of time.

See, if you outlaw the manufacture of WMD (of which, I include guns and bullets), then one would have to craft their own firearm and bullets.

It starts at the top. No more militaries. No more bombs, grenades, or anything of the sort. None.

John Lennon asked us to imagine such a world. Someday, I'd like to quit imagining, open my eyes, and actually see it come to be reality.

Perhaps I'm a dreamer. But I doubt I'm the only one.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

Sure. I'll give up mine right after the gov't, cops, criminals, and gangbangers turn theirs in.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:01 | Link to Comment JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Not me; I am not a lemming.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Because there weren't wars and weapons of mass destruction before modern weaponary? Read much history?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

docj...no, she's wasting your time.  and mine.  and pretty much everyone else's.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:19 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the "gun free zone" signs are usually there for when a gun toter enters the zone, the laws get ramped up.

like "drug free zones" - they don't keep drugs out, just allow for steeper law-enforced penalties. . .

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 10:40 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

How many shooters have been successfully prosecuted using those trivialities? (hint: most never see a trial jury)

Do not mistake the sloganeering bullshit of modern so-called democracy for actual meaningful policy.

If we want to make a new law to prevent tragedies like this, how about: if a crime is committed with your registered weapon, you are by definition an accessory due to your implied neglicence in the management of your firearm.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They won't take away your right to bear arms but the comprehensive exam will be called the "Carlin Test". You have to be psychologically stable enough to not be a harm to your environment and not smart enough to understand who the real threat really is.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

Carlin died in 2008 right before the collapse. George got off the Titanic before it went down...

Our loss.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Carlin had a lot of opinions that don't necessarily get aired here. . .

NRA

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 10:42 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sweet. When can Congress take the test?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment dynomutt
dynomutt's picture

I learned to shoot a .22 rimfire rifle in high school....

...

 

There was a firing range in the basement, and it was a gym elective class.

EDIT:

In an inner-ring suburb of NEW YORK CITY.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

Hey dynomutt,

 

 

Wayland Mass no less,  we had a gun club 22 rifle and would bring them to school on the bus....

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:06 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

does ZH forum contribute more to reactionary paranoia or to simple sorrow, in front of recurrent tragedy?

This thread should tell us more on that. 

Primary school...just imagine the unimaginable. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

Not to cast aspersions on your progressive paranoia, but this sadly has happened before, in Scotland/The Uk if i remember correctly.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Reactionary paranoia, hands-down.  I'm shocked you'd even CONSIDER asking that.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I can't hardly stop crying. I was a teacher. My kids are in school right now.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

with respect, as someone who looks out for your posts. . .

"was a teacher" + "My kids are in school right now" - maybe consider bringing them home to be taught in a better environment. . .

and your neighbours kids could add to the mix, safety in community.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I am thinking about it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I was a teacher and I didn't think about it I did it. My kids never saw the inside of a classroom. My daughter is now in college at 16 (acing her finals including English and Biology, we're very prowd) and my 12 yo son was recently honored by the YMCA as a young leader. He is a fine man, for his age.

It can work.

The country needs it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

good, because you'd make a better teacher than any school could provide, and you'd be doing your children the favour of removing them from the cultural morass that is inevitable in schoolrooms.

as Cougar's post adds, kids can learn far more, with depth of interests, when removed from the distractions of learning how to fit into society, vs following where the imagination leads. . .

upvotes for you both, not that it matters, except to me.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Nothing umimaginable about it. Remember Beslan?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

What is it about our society that we have degenerated to this? The pressures of the economy, the bullcr%p spewed out via videogames/movies/tv, the lack of will to deal with mentally ill people to protect the rest of us, the endless 'anything goes' permissiveness, the emptiness of mindless consumerism, what? When do us normal people get fed up with all of this and say enough is enough?      God rest the souls of these innocents.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture

The pharmaceuticals IMO

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:53 | Link to Comment uncle_vito
uncle_vito's picture

This has gone on ever since mankind  (killing of children).   In the past, you just never heard of it.   Not excusing it, just putting it in perspective.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 17:23 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

In OT Times, people would sacrifice kids to Molech (Ba'al) on a fire.

They would then seek the demon's favor by burying the ashes under their huts.

There supposedly is a group of these people still alive today, they go by different names. Perhaps we should look there.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

wtf why?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

 Why schools and malls and movie theaters? If these assholes would start shooting the people coming out of black SUVs at least they would be doing society a favor.

I loath violence but anything would be better than school kids.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

These are the signs of a nation that is deeply disturbed about its identity, its laws, its morals, its finances, its vision and its opportunities.

The guns are not the cause but simply the means by which a disturbed nation cries out.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Kinda what I said. I totally agree. We need to find a way to change the course we are currently on. I have a child in school. This hits to close to home. I have to convince her that it's ok to go to a movie and/or ride the subway, and now this? I don't know what this asshole pos used, but do we really need to posess rapid fire weapons for personal use?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It sucks, but, yes, we do, as a last-ditch effort against an illegal government.

The Second Amendment is a true Doomsday or Dead Man's Switch option.

After 60 years, I have found 2 things to be true:

"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An unarmed man, a subject."

"When Guns are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns."

**************************

When I was LE academy way back, we were told an Officer has NO constitutional duty to run around trying to protect 100s of citizens. Your service weapon is to protect your life.

I always tell people to arm up, and practice.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Thank you for a serious reply. I am torn by this in that I really do not know what the answer is. I have friends that shoot. Three people in my family in law enforcement at one time or another. I know that it is not the gun but the idiot behind it. That's the whole crux. How do you keep guns in the right hands and out of the hands of the timebomb?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

This is another of those things that falls into a catch-22.  This is no good answer.  Lakecity is right though in his analysis of the failsafe.

Ultimately, we are destined to travel a rather bumpy and upsetting road on our journey into our maturity as a species - or demise.  

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:21 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

You may live in a state where background checks are required, and psychological analysis, and you come through clean. But six months later your wife is brutally murdered by a knife wielding man and you no longer would pass that psychological test......Ya can't cover everything,, the price of freedom can sometimes be high, but I will always opt for it..

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Essential Nexus
Essential Nexus's picture

I wouldn't say that the actions of 3 disturbed individuals out of 300 million necessarily reflect on the national identity.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The actions of three disturbed individuals on their own may not necessarily reflect on the national identity, but the massive buying of guns and ammo by private and governmental people is surely a statement about how secure everyone is feeling and that insecurity stems from the growing realization that the nation has unresolved issues.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

This is about as fucking sad a story i've seen in a while...

 

 

why cant one of these crazy fucks walk into the Fed building, Goldman or JPM!

What the fuck!

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

 Careful - the folks at the Utah data center don't like that kind of talk. You a terrorist?

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I wonder how long it will be before they build another centre to keep an eye on the Utah Data Centre.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 03:37 | Link to Comment 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Celine's 1st law.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

All I'm saying is if you're the type where voices in your head are telling you to kill, at least pick a deserving target.

Those fuckers in Utah are probably reading this and saying, "Fuck yeah!"

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 17:43 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

The news is reporting that he went there to kill his mother. If that's true, let's see just how good that data center is at harvesting the info they collect. Surely there's something they COULD have intercepted to prevent this right? I mean since this is for our protection & all. /sark

Go back to 1969, Whitman a VN vet. He'd tried to get mental health help after the horrors of war & was ignored as so many were. Killed his wife & daughter b4 going to the tower @ UT.

Racial integration bussing started in my state in 1974. In 1975 a kid at the high school was killed to a single shot in the head and it's NEVER stopped since.

I don't think this can be attributed to any single factor. If his mother was his target, it's obvious the breakdown of the family unit was a contributing factor.

TV violence has been studied since the 1950's. It does desenitize & probably contributes.

Financial terrorism for the past 30yrs is more than likely another factor.

Roid rage? Psycotropics?

I pray for these families. They'll never be the same. There is no "new normal" after you lose your child. Their grief will be overwhelming & literally paralyzing.  

There's a nagging feeling in my gut that this is going to get exponentially worse. Protect yourselves.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The FED, Goldman and JP only do what they are allowed to get away with. The problem lies in another building.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Because that's not part of the plan....they only go to places where people can't shoot back.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep. "Gun Free" zone signs are an advertisement for MKUltra shooters and other NGO criminals.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I was off on a tirade this morning about that very issue before this tragedy even happened. Those laws actually prevent me from defending my Constitutional right to the rights to Life and Liberty, as they tell me that I must allow another (deranged) individual to take my life without due process should he be inclined to do so, simply because I happen to be in a bank, school ,government building, airport, and the list keeps growing. It's unbelievable really.......

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:21 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Yep. Can't do it at a Federal Reserve bank ... they have their own ARMED police force.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:32 | Link to Comment August
August's picture

If you can get to them, they're not the ones you're looking for.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 17:19 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Hmmmm, they are probably with the group who programs some of these killers. Unlikely they would shoot their programmers.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

i'm watiching CBS coverage right now / first thing they talked about was "the guns".   CBS has the dialogue & the lingo & the anti-gun verbage going on really good.   i have no trust in the MSM anymore; who the hell knows what's real & what's not.   all i know is that no one kills kids...the most horrific of the horrific.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:25 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

" all i know is that no one kills kids..."

Except O-Phone and his Drones.

Drone Kills.

Coming to the USA soon!

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

drones have drone pilots.

someOne is manning the joy-sticks, and it's not the prezzydent.

know what you blame/target.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

O-Phone has a kill list he selects targets from... even the Red Media reports it.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

dude, drones are not "O's" fault/project/invention - whatever - he's the current figurehead is all - stop distracting yourself and others with repetitive mis-directs.

drones are military inventions brought home, and they are piloted by joy-stick boys trained to kill without any mental interference.

amrkns need to get sharp on this subject as it ramps up.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Never the less; the buck stops with Hopey.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 21:41 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

We have no disagreement.

It's just he is at the top of the visible pyramid.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment vintageyz
vintageyz's picture

Unbelievably sad.  My sympathies to the families and friends, plus the concerns it creates on a national scale.  With a number of relatives who are teachers, the fear for them and their students is escalating.  What is making these young people (20 years old, Portland 21 years old, Denver 24 years old) snap?!

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment ToddGak
ToddGak's picture

My guess is feelings of powerlessness and despair, transformed into anger and revenge fantasies.  Couple it with videogames that teach you how to shoot people and you have a recipe for disaster.  This guy was obviously angry with his mother and wanted to teach her a lesson by killing her and her students.  I'm sure we'll find out more about this guy's history;  maybe a paranoid schizophrenic like the Batman shooter.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment nufio
nufio's picture

unintended consequences of fed money printing.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

You don't know how right you are.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

Newton, Ct can be described as rural area. Must kids are bus in. Principal and an administrator are dead. All local schools are on lock down including Danbury Hospital.

Two shooters. It appears that one guy was taken in handcuff. Unclear if he is the shooter.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment unrulian
unrulian's picture

Be it he still alive so he gets what he deserves...for a long time

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

$SWHC.....being that this is a financial website, look at that price action...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment demsco
demsco's picture

Before everyone blames the gun, let's take a deep breathe. Look, if mental records were hooked into the background check much of this would have been avoided. This is the states and ATF's fault. The facts remain that you are far more likely to get hit by a drunk driver and then then beaten to a pulp by a gang versus getting shot, period. Less than 10,000 people die from gun wounds, many suicides, versus tens of thousands killed by cars and drunk drivers.

 

So, fix the background system before trying to take guns away. After all, you don't see this non-drinker trying to ban alcohol even though 2.3 MILLION people are critically injured from alcohol abuse annually... do you?

 

Now, this guy if he is alive should be tortured. If you are going on a rampage leave the damn kids alone, come on! This is an aweful event and almost brought me to tears as I am a parent of 2 similar age cids.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 01:26 | Link to Comment WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

Looks like you were wrong on this. Guns were not his. I know, shocker, right? Criminal got his hands on a gun.

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 02:38 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Right, if only giant databases had been put to work, in combination, to stop this nutball from getting hold of someone else's guns, handguns in this case, which, ah, no one under 21 can legally buy under current federal law.

 

FAIL.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

It used to be that cowards who took their own lives did just that - take their OWN lives.  Not in this uber-coward, first-person-shoot-em-up, zombie-head-shot culture... 

 

It's time to organize 'Parents Against Victim-zones'.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment inevitablecollapse
inevitablecollapse's picture

as a father of a three year old, this makes me absolutely cringe - who the fuck shoots little kids?  we are moving into very dark times and i really feel these types of things will become more and more frequent.  i definitely seeing a gun control play as a result of this, which doesn't address the true nature of what's going on here.  i saw the post by ZH on twitter last night regarding a man stabbing 22 kids in China.  if some sick bastard wants to do damage, it will be done by powder, steel, rocks, etc.  

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:28 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

I agree. We are in and moving further into dark times. It is not the gun, but the mentallity of a pos who wants to make everyone else hurt as he does. Back in the 70's, we closed most longterm inpatient mental hospitals and literally dumped the residents in the streets. I know, I saw it on Long Island. These people would be found sleeping on your lawn, etc. Eventually, most migrated towards the urban core and became what we call "the homeless". Nowadays, "homeless" consists of all sorts of misfits and people down on there luck. Like you said, this guy could have done this with other weapons. We have to change our culture to take away the anger and lack of impulse control that is driving this crap.   Again, God rest the souls of those who died.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Yes. And thank Ronnie RayGun for that.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

.

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 I'm sure the scumbag showed no previous signs of mental illness.

 Out of the blue.

 We are not willing to pacify the obviously FUCKED, so these things will happen .

 

 

 

 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:22 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Another MKUltra assassin.

I bet w/o reading the story yet there is a report of a "second gunman."

I bet this second gunman "got away."

The "second gunman" will disappear from the inital news reports.

"Raymond, it's time for a game of Solitaire."

 

The Manchurian Candidate. Coming to a school near you.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:55 | Link to Comment catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

It was reported that a second individual was taken out of the woods in handcuffs wearing a black sweatshirt and camo pants yelling "I didn't do it" to the parents nearby.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment cabtrom
cabtrom's picture

Bodies are not even cold and the parisite class "congress" is already writing new gun legislation! Yes please save us almighty king!

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture

They have been written and waiting for the right time.

See Patriot Act

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

K-4 school. About 540 students.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:22 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

What is getting worse is people jumping to a conclusion...lets wait for the facts...the names..the forensics...the details...and learn from that....

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:31 | Link to Comment sosoome
sosoome's picture

One need not await forensics to know this happens too too much.  Learn from that...

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

Lets' see. A rash of shocking shooting rampages right after a large number of gun-control setbacks and a President who is just dying to get the political capital for a major gun ban. Coincidence? I think not.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:22 | Link to Comment BloodPigOnFeces
BloodPigOnFeces's picture

Since we suffered this tragedy, could you at least take the time to spell the name of our town correctly?

 

- thanks Tyler

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

God comfort all involved in the tragedy.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:25 | Link to Comment PUD
PUD's picture

Hate to point out the obvious but "god" was a little absent.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:30 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Well, then again, if God truly sees all, he must have been watching on with full approval of the incident.

Otherwise, then, it wouldn't have happened. Right?

All things from God, after all.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Tsar, you truly are pointless.

Why don't you log off and go home and think about what's important.

You're sinking deeper after every post.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

You obliviously don't understand the reason God created humans and why we have 'free will'.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:32 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

They obviously were worshipping the wrong god. Only 25 more to go.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

That really sucks.  I can only imagine that he was really mad about something else and took it out on poor innocent kids.  It's almost impossible to fathom.

Perhaps he woke up to the realization of all the lies that were imbued into his psyche during his schooling so that FedGov could have it's way with him and the general populace.  I don't know, but he couldn't have picked a worse way to channel his anger.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

I suspect he was just mad, as in insane.

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

Now if this were Afghanistan and a guy went on a shooting rampage killing 17 children how would the US handle it

easy pay the relatives cold hard cash that is to say $46,000 for each dead relative and $10,000 for each injured

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17503733

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:25 | Link to Comment linrom
linrom's picture

Another psychotic twenty year-old with a gun. Image the future when this generation grows up? The profile of these guys is rather straightforward:

1. white

2. brought up with guns

3. middle to upper class

4. parents are business professionals

5. parents instill predatory attitudes and demean others

6. ONLY THEIR FAMILY MATTERS, everybody else is RAOADKILL

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Ban white middle class business professionals. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

You are a low life troll. 

Fri, 12/14/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Future CEO's that can't get a job right now, so they crack.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!