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Is The US Killing The Global Economy?

Tyler Durden's picture


Originally posted at Armstrong Economics,

The United States is the ONLY country that taxes American citizens even if they have never lived in the United States at any time. Once born American, you owe taxes as an economic slave even when you receive nothing and have never lived in the USA. This law passed last December that authorizes the confiscation of any firm’s assets if they do not report what an American citizen does overseas has been devastating. Americans have been thrown out of banks everywhere. In Switzerland, you have to fill out papers to open and account swearing you are not an American citizen even if you are Swiss. Americans are being thrown out of public funds and just about everything anywhere right down to safety deposit boxes. The balance of trade will continue to collapse as foreign goods can be sold to Americans but Americans cannot open businesses overseas unless you are part of the big multinational corporations. This alone has sent the velocity of money spiraling downward. However, what is going on now is just off the wall.

The US government is now hunting down people who may have had one parent as an American yet they have lived outside the USA all their lives. The IRS has been hunting lineage of Canadians who had one American parent and are sending them letters informing them that by US law they should have been paying taxes their whole life to America in addition to Canada. This is sending countless Canadians running for lawyers all because the USA is broke.

How Americans are being treated by their own country is not as a free individual, but as economic property to pay revenue to the government regardless of where they live. NO OTHER NATION DOES THIS BUT THE USA. We are in such serious trouble with this Sovereign Debt Crisis that all liberty is being lost. Virtually every other major nation does not tax worldwide income if earned outside the country under the simple theory you pay taxes to use state services. If you are not there, you do not pay. American are owned by the government no different than the days of slavery. If your parents were slaves, you were the moment you were born. We perhaps ended private ownership of people, but we did not end state ownership of people. You must work and pay taxes and it has nothing to do with paying your “fair share” since there is nothing owed to a citizen by the state.

The desperate need for revenue to pay the bond holders has destroyed everything the constitution was intended to secure.


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Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:53 | 3069043 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Sounds like a model the French need.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:01 | 3069061 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:02 | 3069063 negative rates
negative rates's picture

At least you did it, your way!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:36 | 3069142 macholatte
macholatte's picture



Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
Frederick Douglass


The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.
Barack Obama


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:51 | 3069169 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

"Is The US Killing The Global Economy?"....that's a Big (Fucking Huge) 10-4 Good Buddy!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:50 | 3069701 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

It's time to cede from the Union....right after I finish every show on my DVR.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 23:31 | 3070102 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'Welcome, to the real world..."

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 05:41 | 3070553 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Every $Trillion that the U.S. prints and spends is a Trillion dollars worth of wealth that flows back to the Bankers. If this keeps up at this pace, there will be only a black hole left where the earth was in a hundred years.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:53 | 3069304 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

It will be amusing to watch the US military try to draft people living in other countries.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 22:37 | 3069981 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Is the US killing the economy? They're killing everything else

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:34 | 3070233 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Hay buddy, a news for you. Whole Al-caeda is working you US.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 22:46 | 3070006 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Until I read this article I had no real idea of just how fucked you folk really have my sympathy.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:21 | 3069241 max2205
max2205's picture

Fine, but I'll be happiest when they go after google ge apple ect tax dodges

Your next fuckers

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:46 | 3069289 trav777
trav777's picture

that money gets taxed when the people it's distributed to declare it as income, idiot

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:11 | 3069459 Super Broccoli
Super Broccoli's picture

only if it's distributed to americans my dear ;-)

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 02:50 | 3070443 From Germany Wi...
From Germany With Love's picture

But what if we're all Americans now?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 03:05 | 3070455 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

And why should someone who isn't a US citizen or resident pay US taxes for owning shares in a US company?

Should US citizens and residents pay foreign income taxes on the foreign stocks they own?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:04 | 3070179 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

Wow. That's.quite.Evil.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:55 | 3069045 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

Doh?! They are not called the great satan for nothing in 95% of the world. Gunboat Economics.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:17 | 3069095 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Their is a secret war and agenda going on against every good person on this planet.


In the US and abroad...every nation has been inflitrated and hijacked.



Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:34 | 3069130 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

Yeah the USD based empire possibly shot it's own foot, or is moving to asia, or going full transnational. I think theres a war on between the factions in the last two options.


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:45 | 3069161 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Foreign countries are being protected.

That's why overseas Americans are being taxed - they're paying for protection.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:53 | 3069182 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Ahh...but Mark Rich laughes himself to sleep every night!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:41 | 3069276 ajax
ajax's picture




It's Marc Rich - and no he doesn't or if he does it hasn't anything to do with being a target of the USA's supreme hypocrisy vis a vis who owes "taxes". 

Read the book: "The Secret Lives of Marc Rich: The King of Oil" by Daniel Ammann, Business Editor of Switzerland's  "Die Weltwoche".

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:59 | 3069564 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

No it´s Mark Rich, a very shrewed ex-pat who turns all his leftover fiat into Phyzz, out of the banking system, and laughs himself to sleep every night.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:03 | 3069183 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Fear not BLOTTO, Gen-Y is on the case, they'll save us. <SARC/OFF>

They have co-engineered a generation least capable of clear, rational, and critical thought under pressure. Gen-Y are the proverbial 'Lambs To The Slaughter'.....and there isn't anything any of you can do about it.

Look around you; who do you think will be keeping themselves and others together when the lights go out?!.....Smith & Wesson.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:36 | 3070236 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

US has gone postal.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:49 | 3069173 Freddie
Freddie's picture

But the Europeans love B Hussein Mugabe.  He is leading them to pverty with currency wars and his shills downgrading every european country.  Including Warner Buffer's Moodys.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:12 | 3069461 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

ALL of our countries are stink now, Freddie.  Europe, yes.  But ours too.  OUR country re-elected him despite the worst presiding over ANY economic recovery on record.  That is because 51% + of our people now just want their Free Shit from Santa Claus.

America will not get out of this hole for a long time.  Best prepare, folks.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 05:59 | 3070563 4exNinja
4exNinja's picture

It didn't help that Romney never presented a plan showing off how he'd make it better...and of course his racist rethoric during the primaries didn't help either, and neither did his anti-women bullshit. He shot himself in the foot with that stuff. 

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:56 | 3069048 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Damn that US citizenism ... good not to be a part of it

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:59 | 3069203 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Do not underestimate the measures the EU Parliiment will go to for more cash when one EU nation after the next explodes.  There are a lot of socialists out there watching the rich hit the high road with their wealth while they are left with the millions of poor and ever decreasing revenues to pay for them. 

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:47 | 3069417 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

The power to tax is national, the EU is not going to get that.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:13 | 3069464 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well you are European, and are likely to be right.

But, we'll see.  Central governments like to grab and grab...

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:14 | 3069465 Super Broccoli
Super Broccoli's picture

the first european tax are being set up at the moment :-) now they don't look very big at first (like any tax) but they'll grow don't worry !

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 03:13 | 3070461 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Fee, Tax- what's the difference?

While the current methods are examples of indirect control, it's not like any of the vassal states of Brussels wouldn't have to pay if they decided to cut their domestic VAT to stimulate the economy.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 02:52 | 3070446 From Germany Wi...
From Germany With Love's picture

Indeed. Latest rumors from Germany:

'...there was even speculation about radical measures such as Lastenausgleichsgesetz (enforced taxation of housing and equities), prohibition of ownership of gold and government-enforced maximum interest rates.'


Source (German):

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 01:41 | 3070377 dunce
dunce's picture

Both legal and illegal aliens evade our taxes and claim many taxpayer funded benefits yet are "never " prosecuted for tax evasion. The Mexican drug cartels operate in every US state but pay no taxes on their huge profits.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:57 | 3069050 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

capital controls are next-the govt. has almost got the fence around the reservation completed-at least if you are a legal US citizen and want to get yourself and your money OUT.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:57 | 3069055 Zombie Investor
Zombie Investor's picture

I'm just thankful that my 401K is safe.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:01 | 3069060 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

I assume that is sarcasm.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:03 | 3069067 Apeman
Apeman's picture

No, he's serious.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:20 | 3069107 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Well, MY 401k is safe. It is completely invested in Canadian metals, securities, and funds. 

Uh, it is safe, isn't it? Right?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:18 | 3069234 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Canada is a puppet banker state like the US with a lot of treaties between the two countries to handle people like those that frequent ZH. In this day and age safety is an illusion. At the stroke of pen we are all criminals.


Good luck with your investments though. And merry Christmas.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:24 | 3069376 lesterbegood
lesterbegood's picture


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:41 | 3070246 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

in a sense, yes. his 401k will be worth same as today in 10 years time when loaf of bread will be $300 a piece.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:01 | 3069193 e-recep
e-recep's picture

no, he is a muppet.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:57 | 3069054 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Maybe The Bernank has switched from a helicopter to a drone.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 15:59 | 3069057 Martin Silenus
Martin Silenus's picture

Glad to be 100% Canadian, eh?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:07 | 3069080 duo
duo's picture

You watch, just having a beer with an American will send the IRS calling.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:19 | 3069103 chubbyjjfong
chubbyjjfong's picture

Chur, and glad to be 100% Kiwi, bro?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:01 | 3069058 booboo
booboo's picture

and then they mock the poor bastards overseas by continuing to pile up the debt. I used to wonder why a guy holed up in a abandon house would yell out "came on and get me coppers". I don't any longer, some folks prefer death (with a pound of extracted flesh) over perpetual slavery.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:42 | 3069406 Banjo
Banjo's picture

@booboo there are more people in bondage and slavery today than any time in history. The fact that you spout such nonsense as above shows you live in your coddled bubble world shows and how ignorant you are of human nature. Oh yeah the on in ten or a hundred thousand goes down fighting thats going to be you right? LOL

You will take your slavery and love it. In fact Im guessing you don't have many choices today and sit around jabber jawing about freedom and liberty.


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:11 | 3069591 booboo
booboo's picture

The fact that you basically admit that you would not "go down fighting" causes me no concern, at least I know you will be soiling your Batman Underoos at the edge of the ditch instead of getting in the way. It's a win win for freedom either way. 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:16 | 3103228 Banjo
Banjo's picture


Don't worry about me clown. I was talking about you and your moronic drivel jabber jawing nonsense.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:00 | 3069059 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Actually, I believe North Korea also taxes its citizens in the same fashion.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:46 | 3069416 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Like 47% of Americans they don't earn enought taxable income. It's all tax FREE.

Coming soon to YOUR jurisdiction.



Sun, 12/16/2012 - 21:14 | 3069768 Cull Morgan
Cull Morgan's picture

Correct. As does Eritrea. I believe communist East Germany also used to belong to this exclusive club.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:02 | 3069062 Apeman
Apeman's picture

Glad I didn't buy that American dream BS. Wheeeeew.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:03 | 3069064 laomei
laomei's picture

Yea, here's what you do: ignore it.

Oh no, you're a legal citizen of another country and have zero interest in the US to the point of not even having a US passport.  Ok, so they claim you owe them money.  And to this you tell them to fuck off.


Note to all expats out there: STOP BEING SUCH A FUCKING BOYSCOUT! If the IRS has no direct knowledge of your income, you don't fucking report it.  Period, end of story.  Married overseas with a foreign spouse? File as single.  The IRS has no right or need to know about your personal life.  In reality, I pull a mid-6 figures a year.  As far as the IRS knows, I have nothing but operating-loss years over and over again, being supported by friends.  Yep, I'm a total failure and they have zero way to prove otherwise.  As such, I am not even a target.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:25 | 3069114 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Hey, even the losers get lucky sometimes!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:27 | 3069117 CH1
CH1's picture

If the IRS has no direct knowledge of your income, you don't fucking report it.

Remember that world-wide surveillance the US Beast has built?

Ever wonder why they built it?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:47 | 3069167 laomei
laomei's picture

I get paid using routes which are 100% untracable to me personally.  And as long as I pay my taxes on it here in China, China does not care.  Surveil all you want US, I'm untouchable.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:10 | 3069218 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

Wouldn't put too much faith in the Chinese to go out of their way to protect your property from their main debtor. Also wouldn't go mouthing off about it on a website.  If i was a sneaky IRS fucker looking for people that evade high taxes I might go look at a forum where people come to complain about paying high taxes.

It really depends on the money. How much would it cost to pay some jack ass to monitor traffic and trace back ISP and make a list of people talking shit about IRS? The budget for these sorts of projects must exist since they admitted to having shills and trolls on the pay role. Factor all that watch word software that brings stuff to their attention. This is way more lucrative applied to that than for Drug Dealers, kiddy fiddlers and suicide bombers.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:40 | 3069497 laomei
laomei's picture

And trace it back to what exactly? A foreign ISP that gives no shit what the IRS wants?  Trace it back to a proxy account on a system with none of my details and no logs?  Good luck IRS I guess.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:17 | 3069232 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Of the Chinese you know and deal with, any idea how many are stackers?  What are there attitudes to physical gold and silver?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:53 | 3069306 ajax
ajax's picture



"What are there attitudes to physical gold and silver?"

You mean: "What are THEIR attitudes toward physical gold and silver?"  ???





Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:41 | 3069503 laomei
laomei's picture

Chinese like gold and silver.  Go scope out the chaos at the gold markets if you have any doubt.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:13 | 3070204 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

This actually touches on a topic I've been wondering about ever since FATCA was enacted..  Let's say you're an American expat living in Switzerland, and you transact with a financial institution that has no U.S. footprint.  And let's also say you conduct your all personal (financial) affairs as if you were a Swiss citizen, save having actually undergone the extortion of renouncing your U.S. citizenship.  You don't file a 1040 or incur any other brain damage associated with federal and state income taxes.  You don't set foot on U.S. soil or have any legacy assets there.

Now.  What exactly is the means by with the IRS can get to you?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 04:01 | 3070493 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The IRS has rather limited means (at the moment).  One authority they do have, but do not currently exercise, is dumping names into the OFAC database.

The Departments of State and Justice have other options (which is ironic since they are run by Cuntlery Clinton and Marc Rich's personal White House Nigger).  You should read the extradition treaty.

It all comes down to how badly they want someone (or their assets).  If you are poor, then the state is less likely to allocate the human resources required.  Then again, the poverty line here is above the median household income in the US, and they are going after Canadians...

Hedge accordingly.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:02 | 3069065 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The US needs a consumption tax. nearly every 1st world nation has it. Trying to generate revenues without it is evil. openes the door to all the social engineering, which backfires in everyway possible. 

Blows my mind that people think a consumption tax restrics freedom but  an 80,000 page tax code does not.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:08 | 3069082 booboo
booboo's picture

Sales tax is a consumption tax and since our entire economy is based on consooooming it would stifle CONsumption. They would never get rid of the 80,000 page LoopHolyBook regardless.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:15 | 3069091 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I dont think it would stiffle consumption in the long term. most places in the USA already have state and local sales taxes. people gotta eat, buy tools, gadgets etc.

you made me laugh out loud with the LoopHolyBook. Agreed. If Satan wanted to take control of people without them knowing it, or having any ability to stop him, it could be best done with something just like the US tax code.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:52 | 3070269 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

One way to kill the beast is to starve him. So stop consuming. No consumption no tax no beast.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:17 | 3069099 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

jeez Barack-don't you have anything else to do today? like working on fake crying or something?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:42 | 3069155 wisefool
wisefool's picture

What is it about a consumption tax that you dont like? usually those opposed fall into these categories

1) Tax industry professional

2) People who get tax windfalls, from mitt romney down to the mexican immigrants who claim 40 kids and get $100,000 back. Neither can be prosecuted, but the guy who failed to report $300 worth of income can be thrown in jail. or the other situations in Tyler's article. IRS admits this. 

3) People who are tax neutral. you might have a tax free pension, or you might have chosen a life path where you dont earn any more than the ceiling you chose. There are many "levels" of participation in our economy. choose however many you want from the following (EITC, EBT, SS credits, Food stamps, avoid child support) and I will tell you how hard, where and why to work a job.

4) People who are tax dependant. This includes pretty much every 501c3, NGO, charity, MSM News network, and the MIC.  All of these people are essentially government workers. so wouldn't you write the tax code to keep the foot soldiers happy?

5) High end retailers in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc who get massive revenue from foriegners buying luxury goods on currency arbitrage vacations.

6) People who like being controlled. People who have to be told to buy a house by the mortgage interest deduction. oltherwise they would just live in a box their whole lives. People who neeed to be told to donate to an approved lobby, while somebody else is donating to an opposed lobby. People who need to deduct their spouse and kids, cause we want more spouses and kids (not working well in the USA). etc.

1-6 is not the basis of prosperous nation. It limits free will. It encourages gaming the system. It can absorb all war weariness. It disincentivises llegitimate hard working high earners, and placates rent seekers at all wealth levels. The most important thing, again. It limits free will.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:14 | 3069225 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

The US does not need more taxes .  It needs to pass balance budget amendments within each state and at the federal level and start managing the money the way it should be done.  Don´t give the fiscal meth addicts more fiscal meth.  It´s just going to go up in smoke.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:28 | 3069255 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The tax code is basically a derivates market on revenue. Theoretically the .gov could be running a surplus of the code was implemented. Realistically the few people who pay honest taxation are getting in the tax scam game or going galt.

This is why we have not even bothered to pass a budget in 4 years. none of it matters. If you implemented simple, fair taxation, the government would be FORCED to pass budjets, or the markets would punish them.

Fiat ponzi (monetary policy) requires commensurably incompentent taxation to pull off profligrate pork and patronage spending. Nobody wants to have a fair system. Their livelyhoods depend on it staying as it is now.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:40 | 3069316 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

While I think a flat consumption tax might very well be a step in the right direction, I'm really for the Federal Tax the country's freedom was founded upon, ZERO %.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:55 | 3069188 seek
seek's picture

I'm sure we'll have one shortly -- the accounting system to implement it was part of the original Obamacare package that got deleted.

However, it will join the 80,000 page tax code, not replace it. Nor will it be deductible, nor will it supplant local and state sales taxes.

They won't be satisfied until the tax rate is over 100%, since they need to suck in existing assets to keep things going as well.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:20 | 3069474 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's my big problem with a Consumption Tax, they won't get rid of the Income Tax, they'll just keep upping the tax burdens on us as much as they can.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 21:07 | 3069751 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Bingo. While a consumption tax is in fact a just tax (as it is legally avoidable), the only way one can support it is if the income tax is simultaneously abolished, as that is a thoroughly unjust tax that is utterly incompatible with the founding principles of this country, namely, Life, Liberty, and Property.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 21:07 | 3069752 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Got to have a constitutional ammendment that phases out other taxes as sales tax comes onboard.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:36 | 3069492 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yeah, just throw that consumption tax up there on the back of the truck with the other taxes. Nobody's going to notice.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:03 | 3069066 suteibu
suteibu's picture

America practicing hegemony at home and abroad.  But, don't worry, Americans are still do what they are told.  Reagan might have beaten the Soviets into submission, but the American people lost the Cold War.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:32 | 3069135 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Choose you enemy well because you will become just like them.


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:58 | 3069318 ajax
ajax's picture



Reagan had nothing to do with it - ask Nancy.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:07 | 3069580 Seer
Seer's picture

Of course he didn't do it.  BAD SYSTEMS FAIL!  The Soviets were always going to crash big time.  Regan just happened to be the sitting POTUS when it happened: and Gorbachev did what happens very rarely in human history: as a leader he helped dismantle the very system he'd resided over.  Shit always happens because of INTERNAL tensions; external shit is merely a distraction; when everyone in the USSR realized how dysfunctional things were there was no way of keeping the game going.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:58 | 3069724 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

... yow, shit in the Bush ....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:56 | 3070277 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

A smart loser learns quickly how to beat the winner.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:09 | 3069068 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the french never copy, they like to go beyond the curve into never-never wave; then they howl when the micro oven gets turned on! 

Coming back to the US, its in unchartered territory, as its destroyed  by its own exuberant hubris its own fundamental ethic. And that is like the Republic bending to Caesar, or the POPE going viral into "indulgence" without restraint, the ORIGNAL wave of derivative products; (no GS nor LAdy Blythe did not invent that!).  

When you go renegade to your OWN basic civilization meme you are in trouble. Ask Pericles, ask Caracalla, ask Paul III the Pope who got his ass kicked by reform and "free-will".  Rome became dead end. 

USA's pax americana is now having to look itself in the mirror and say : I'm not LAdy Shalott, that was Queen Victoria! 

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:03 | 3069069 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr&#039;s 2nd Shot's picture

The need to gather as much "revenue" as possible would be understandable if there was some noble cause upon which the funds would be spent. Keeping a Ponzi afloat is not noble, it just destroys the concept of money.

Oh, and the whole world already pays for the US overspending via the price of food. Involving the IRS is just overkill.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:52 | 3069179 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

A wrong and a right doesn't equal a right.

Government can never have a noble cause.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:38 | 3069494 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I'm waiting for a noble CURE. And I suspect it won't be created by any level of government.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:04 | 3069073 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

As many other have before him; I wonder if O has any thought of his preconceived violation of oath to defend the US Constitution on January 20.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:08 | 3069078 hwwesq3
hwwesq3's picture

WHAT?  Why doesn't everyone just incorporate themselves where they live?  Have your pay go to your corporation, run it through Ireland, Belgium, then the Cayman Islands, then to you.  Bingo!  No taxes!

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:30 | 3069127 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Not that I would do such a thing.

Belizean International Business Corp. would be the way ,if so inclined.

As a holding company for your avoidance scheme.

If my corporations ever made a profit, that's how I would go.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:58 | 3069565 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

why would you ever show a profit??  by all means funnel some excess into hookers or something

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:49 | 3069172 CH1
CH1's picture

Why doesn't everyone just incorporate themselves where they live?

Again, note the US-built world-wide surveillance state.

People already have everything they need to avoid taxation: Cash, Bitcoin, PMs, encrytion, etc. They just don't have the balls to use them.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:59 | 3069566 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

barter with time banks as well.. no currency, just exchange of services

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:26 | 3069635 Seer
Seer's picture

Technically "exchange of services" is STILL a transaction that is taxable.  The IRS has missed nothing!

Folks that wish to minimize tax payments can do so by earning and consuming little.  But, as is usually the case, most are just hypocrites and will want MORE for free...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 07:45 | 3070656 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

aye, that is the rub, dear seer.   to scale up a time bank in efficiency & participation would be an invitation to scrutiny by the Minions due to the need for technology to really make it sticky.     always thought however, that it might work if it is based upon the concept of gifting.    Baudrillard wrote about this in his early work, where he noted that "Capitalism" was not only the form of symbolic exchange and that if labor did not choose to call itself "labor", then it could sidestep it.

but in order for this to work, folks would have to let go of their traditionalexpectations of being "paid" for an hour of labor and learn to trust that by giving, they will eventually get.   unfortunately, that's quite a hard pattern for break for most.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 07:20 | 3070625 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

we really should pushing this meme much more, thanks for keeping it alive.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:09 | 3069081 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Guess that makes the US population over a Billion

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:12 | 3069085 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

They should do this with Corporations headquartered in the US.  All Money overseas earned and held overseas gets taxed.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:19 | 3069102 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

that'll happen about as soon as Feinstein joins the NRA.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:23 | 3069111 booboo
booboo's picture

Jeffery Imelt and General Electric Asia, General Electric Europe and General Electric South America laugh in your General Direction.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:17 | 3069093 Currency is Debt
Currency is Debt's picture

Gold bitchez Gold Chart 1971-2012

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:16 | 3069094 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Citizenship should have liabilities . You failed to mention key facts, our tax treaties recognize dual citizenship, most people that have foreign assets also have foreign citizenship and don't pay federal taxes on foreign asset. We could fix this by not recognizing dual citizenship for tax purposes. 

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:35 | 3069140 Seer
Seer's picture

Fiddling while Rome burns.  In the grand scheme of things this is meaningless.  People are just too caught up looking for others to bash.  Whine or do something!

And anyone who thinks that spending energies to get the System to reform is going to be fruitful, well...

Mother Nature is going to take care of all of this.  When people are hungry they're not going to give a fuck about all this tax shit.  It's really about how the "rich" react, and, frankly, they're operating a sinking ship, so I could really give a fuck about them (they'll do what they have always done- buy their way out of trouble; until, that is, those who took payments no longer hang around for fear of their lives).

When resource shortages appear (which will now be terminal) pressures always mount.  But... we can never talk about this because those whom you're trying to get to pay more "taxes" (which they just loop-hole over with something else, or have someone write special laws for them to evade) will not allow the conversation (instead we'll be doing more of this trivial/meaningless talk).

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:00 | 3069204 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

That statement is so "last year". Now all foreign taxes are subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 02:55 | 3070448 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Bullshit.  Cite the treaty text exempts US citizens with dual citizenship from taxation of foreign income.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 03:17 | 3070463 Max in St Moritz
Max in St Moritz's picture

You are correct, Mr. RedNeck

I'm a US citizen, but live in Switzerland, Doha and Hong Kong so I'm very familiar with the laws regarding "wordwide income" and dual citizenships. 


Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:19 | 3069100 Currency is Debt
Currency is Debt's picture

Walmart hasn't done badly. Wages have. See a correlation.

Walmart Chart, 1975-2012

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:19 | 3069101 Zola
Zola's picture

Relax, China will tell USSA to suck a giant **** and not comply with their BS laws. Just realize that both will swap places in history. One is becomin the capitalist leader , the other is lurching towards communism, iron curtain , propaganda etc... Change takes time but the course is set and so far no apparent change is forthcoming. The mindless monkeys in the US rejected Ron Paul, they will reap the consequences.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:21 | 3069108 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think it's the other way around-the Chinese may soon find that all of that US Treasury paper would be more valuable wiping their asses with

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:44 | 3069158 laomei
laomei's picture

Due to the structure of the banking industry in China, it's impossible to "comply" and it's impossible to have any meaningful sanctions and they are exempt from FATCA anyways... and also telling the US to go get fucked.

International transactions are not direct bank-to-bank.  They all go through clearing at SAFE, which is People's Bank of China. PBoC shed all retail and commercial branches years back due to pushing from the US.  And that's where the Big-4 originated.  Because I guess having everything all at a single bank was too simple and easy, so thanks to that moment of idiocy, all the banks have different policies on transaction fees, offerings, etc.  It's kinda dumb to be honest, it was better when there was a single bank to deal with.


Anyways, back to the point at hand.  SAFE is the one conducting all actual transactions internationally, not the banks.  Incoming transfers hit SAFE and are then reviewed and sent to the instructed branch.  Outgoing transfers hit SAFE, are reviewed and then sent out overseas.  PBoC is a GOVERNMENT BANK, as such, it is exempt from any US fuckery.  Go ahead, sanction the domestic banks, but it won't work, because they are firewalled by SAFE.  Ditto goes for every single other bank in China, despite the name.  They are seperate legal entities from everything outside of China.  Foreign branches are also seperate legal entities, so again, it doesn't matter.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 04:43 | 3070508 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

de facto not de jure

Technically, if SAFE does not comply with FATCA, then the US can withhold (read write-down) 30% the US debt owned by China (among other transactions).

FATCA doesn't attempt to regulate foreign owned banks directly, it simply imposes a 30% withholding tax for non-compliance withUS hegemony, and specifically includes pass through payments (see Sec. 1471 (b) (1) (D) (i)).

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 12:43 | 3071282 laomei
laomei's picture

However, it's a government bank.  Government banks are exempt.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 14:23 | 3071617 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Where does it say that in the text of FATCA?

Sun, 12/23/2012 - 23:29 | 3092242 laomei
laomei's picture

The exemption for foreign governments is available for any “integral part” of a foreign government and entities
that are (directly or indirectly) wholly owned and controlled by one or more foreign governments. Unlike
Section 892, the exemption from FATCA withholding for a wholly owned government entity applies regardless of
whether the entity is engaged in, or the income is derived from, the conduct of commercial activities. Thus, a
“sovereign wealth fund” generally is not required to enter into an FFI Agreement. The exemption, however, does
not apply to a wholly owned entity that is a financial institution engaged in a banking or custodial business.

The rules described above do not apply to any payment beneficially owned by (1) any corporation that is a member of an expanded affiliated group that includes a publicly traded corporation; (2) any foreign government (or political subdivision, wholly owned agency or instrumentality); (3) any international organization (or wholly owned agency or instrumentality); (4) any foreign central bank of issue; or (5) any other class of persons identified by the Treasury secretary. Further, under new section 1471(d)(1)(b), a foreign financial institution is not required to disclose account information if the account holder is an individual whose aggregate value of depository accounts held (in whole or in part) and maintained by the same financial institution which maintains such account does not exceed $50,000.

Simple really. PBoC is exempt, period. And PBoC is the only outwards facing institution in China, so it firewalls everything else.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:58 | 3069435 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

I think the best way to gauge which way the wind is blowin here in the Middle Kingdom is to review the story of financial behemoth and leader in the credit card field ....right?

Wrong. China Union Pay is the biggest processor of bank cards in the world now...VISA helped the PBOC set up the bank card network in China, and processed all card payments. foreign and domestic...till, in 2007, the CUP started processing it's own cards and even offering RMB denominated bank cards to other countries...though VISA screamed blue murder to the WTO, there was little of substance they could do about it...

Union Payhas  a 29% market share vs Visa's 28%, numbers which will only widen going bank alone, ICBC, is now the 4th largest credit card issuer in the world, trailing only JP Morgan Chase & Co, Bank of America Corp and Citigroup(not for long!)

Of the many eye openers  that I've had during my Far Eastern tour, finding out that my VISA cards were pretty much useless for retail transactions in China was probably the biggest...that and walking into a bank to see a large selection of gold coins and bars on display...FOR SALE! Must be tough being in the jewelry trade here...

I plan on migrating out of VISA and into CUP over the next couple of's just the way the world is goin...

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:43 | 3069509 laomei
laomei's picture

CUP also has really really really low fees.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:24 | 3069109 Vegetius
Vegetius's picture

The Ponzi needs bodies to keep going in the USA and in Europe so we will see the Elite strip away rights in the name of progress, protecting you and economics till there is nothing left and then you get a revolution. One interesting thing is here in Europe is the downplaying of physical force revolution side of things; it’s easy to big up those things in the good days and makes believe that you would be leading the Sans-culottes to victory. The worm turns when you are afraid of the same Sans-culottes.

“Little by little, the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him.”
  -Jennifer Donnelly



Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:24 | 3069112 Seer
Seer's picture

More meaningless (in the long-run) anti-tax rantings... Do the idiots who write this shit not realize the the rest of the world is fucked because they over-spent, not because the US taxes it's "citizens" (who may have never lived in the U.S.).

How many were spending this much energy at the height of the bubble era?  Be honest!  I doubt very much that most were saying shit.  It's all good when things are flowing, when there are ample resources.  But when things tighten up (which happens when any Ponzi runs its course- perpetual growth on a finite planet will put the brakes on ALL), THEN folks come crawling out of the woodwork complaining (usually about the most stupid shit; yeah, there's a SLIGHT connection, but in the bigger picture it's meaningless).

Given that there are some 4+ billion on the planet who earn $3/day or less do people really think that these folks are going to be taxed to death? (can't get blood out of a turnip)

In conclusion, I'd be perfectly fine to side with folks who state that because there are resources shortages and that we're starting in a terminal decline that taxes have to be reduced in order to keep pace with the decline.  Otherwise, it sounds like it always has sounded: a bunch of rich fuckers whining that they should have MORE (again, refer to what it's like for 4+ billion humans, the bulk who had the misfortune of being born elsewhere [and if reincarnation would occur then perhaps people might not feel so self-righteous]).

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:29 | 3069119 indio007
indio007's picture

"there is nothing owed to a citizen by the state."


This is incorrect. There is a duty of protection.


" a dual and reciprocal tie, because just as the subject is bound in obedience to the king, so the king is bound to the protection of the subject; and therefore allegiance is properly so called from ligando (tying) because it contains within itself a two-way tie."

Calvin’s Case, or the Case of the Postnati. 1 - Sir Edward Coke, Selected Writings of Sir Edward Coke, vol. I[1600]

However, the USA specifically disclaims this duty.

Therefore there is no state and there are no citizens.

People are simply duped in to believing they are citizens

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:51 | 3069177 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

When is the last time you were referred to as a "citizen"? Didn't you know you are just consumers who pay all the taxes?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 18:23 | 3069364 ajax
ajax's picture



"When is the last time you were referred to as a "citizen"?"

In Europe, the answer is always.

In the USA never.

Americans can't even write the word "people" any longer, it's always "folks". "Folks", because Americans are oh so simple and just down home ordinary and regular... because "folks" dream "The American Dream" but "people" (citizens) have rights and require equitable treatment from their elected officials. "Folks" make perfect victims. "Folks" is a joke played on American Assholes by G.W. Bush.

Keep it up "folks" - you're losing

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:46 | 3069515 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture


Consumers who need consumers,

Are the luckiest consumers in the world.


(With apologies to Bob Merrill but not Barbra Streisand)

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:29 | 3069120 besnook
besnook's picture

well the lawyers should be breathing a little easier since they are only in the background on this crisis. "KILL ALL BANKERS!"

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:31 | 3069134 besnook
besnook's picture

this is just another indication that unbridled self interest leads to self destruction. the banks have been given carte blanche by .gov to save themselves so they will destroy everyone and everything if that is what it takes to save them from themselves, which they will fail at anyway.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:41 | 3069152 Seer
Seer's picture

The "carte blanche" was given by the System, well before the modern State.  When perpetual growth on a finite planet -THE BIG LIE- is the accepted norm then ANYTHING goes.  It's one big buy-in to the most reckless Ponzi we could ever undertake.  Bankers are merely a product of this System: yes, they are big components/players, but, they don't contain the codes/rules that make up the Ponzi.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:47 | 3069168 besnook
besnook's picture

the banksters are/were the designers of the system. even greenspan had the epiphany that they will destroy anything and everyone including themselves in their quest to perpetuate the ponzi scheme.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:47 | 3069691 Seer
Seer's picture

"Go forth and multiply."  Still think it was the "bankers?"

No, the "bankers" are just big-time hucksters who, with the aid of "money" are the tops in milking it: that is, they took this and RAN with it... (is there any better way of achieving exponential growth than via "interest?". I kind of liked the Phoenicians with their cattle hauling and all; seemed so innocent...)

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:35 | 3069138 Jason T
Jason T's picture

I am so in line with  this Man's way of thinking.  Armstrong is the real deal.  

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:39 | 3069148 PUD
PUD's picture






Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:40 | 3069150 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

This is why marijuana should be taxed and legalized.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:43 | 3069157 inevitablecollapse
inevitablecollapse's picture

does this mean that illegals born in the USA are also been hunted down so that they can give their 'fair share'?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:00 | 3069202 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Seriously, you can be illegal in the US and yet pay taxes to the IRS because if there is one thing that is as bad as the IRS it's the ICE.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:12 | 3069222 inevitablecollapse
inevitablecollapse's picture

how are undocumented, seasonal illegal immigrants tracked down?  aren't most of these folks paid in cash?

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 19:48 | 3069523 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I would certainly hope so.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:48 | 3069695 Seer
Seer's picture

Um, not always.  Fake IDs.  And with those fake IDs come REAL taxes: think most are going to see any SS? no, not at all (and they pretty much know that); it's one additional way of propping up SS (and the politicians know it!).

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:44 | 3069162 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The US can have everyoe convert to Roth IRS's and then seize them.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:56 | 3069195 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

That is exactly the first step in their plan to confiscate everything you have.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:55 | 3069190 JR
JR's picture

Ironically, the fourth item of the ten measures in the Marx-Engels Communist Manifesto to revolutionize the “mode of production” demands that citizens be the "economic property" of the state. It calls for:

“Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.”

 Emigrants - persons who leave their own country to settle permanently in another -- would refer to expatriates, to all persons who live outside their native country.

The Manifesto relates that these inroads on the rights of property. i.e., “to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to establish democracy,” must be “done over the bourgeois objections to Communism” until "all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation" -- a prelude to banker-controlled world governance.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 16:59 | 3069200 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

Uncle Sam has got his his meat hooks deeply set into Canadian economics. Across the board from our fisheries, hydroelectricity, potash, ranching, fresh water, real-estate, (luckily we're selling our oil to the Chinese WTF?!) trade controls, politics, even the Canadian dollar is intwined with their trash. Americans may well be slaves to their debt, but Canadians are set up to be slaves to America. Not that anyone in this country gives two shits, they'll be robbed blind and securely chained to the American dream before they'll even have a frank discussion regarding political/economic structure. Tsk tsk....

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 20:51 | 3069704 Seer
Seer's picture

Have to agree with your assessment.  It's been a great trick to convince everyone else of the need to become just like the US.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 01:07 | 3070297 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Sad thing is that next generation will find word "freedom" in Wikipedia only.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:05 | 3069207 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Yes! The Fiscal and Military policies of the United States , government is hurting US/ We need to focus on our own resources and needs, as opposed to playing games in far off lands/

 I'll tell ya a secret/ Some bad ass Z/H posters opened my eyes, and I'm eternally thankful. I won't mention any handles/avatars...

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 17:04 | 3069210 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Whats the rule on USA corperations that operate outside USA boundries, are they not people to?

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