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2012's Mass Shootings And Some "Gun Control" Observations
With the resurgence of gun control politics storming to stage center over the past 72 hours, and providing yet another fulcrum point of social division precisely at the time when the nation is already hopelessly divided on other key political talking points which look set to push the Fiscal Cliff debate unresolved into 2013, below we provide two useful benchmarks to frame the "gun debate." The first, courtesy of WaPo, is an interactive chart of all mass shootings, including all the relevant details, taking place in 2012. The second, is a dispassionate and fact-based observation courtesy of BusinessWeek of the realities and challenges facing politicians, and the broader society, as America grapples with 200+ years of Second amendment history on one hand, and a society that is ever more "troubled", and increasingly prone to violence and murder on the other.
First, click on the chart below for a jump to the WaPo's succinct and interactive chart showing all 2012 mass murders.
Second, we recommend everyone read the following narrative from BusinessWeek's Paul Barrett, titled "A Post-Newtown Guide to the Gun Control Policy Debate", in which without any attempt to score political brownie points (a rare occurrence these days), the author "reviews some of the proposals that politicians and others will talk about in coming weeks."
From BusinessWeek:
Demonization A couple of weeks before Newtown, our premier sports broadcaster used his Sunday Night Football halftime soapbox to issue a heartfelt appeal for reducing the prevalence of handguns. Responding to the Kansas City Chiefs’ Jovan Belcher murder-suicide, Bob Costas said, said: “Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.” Similar pained cries have echoed in the wake of the Connecticut disaster —for example, this column by the New Yorker‘s Adam Gopnik, entitled, “Newtown and the Madness of Guns.”
The emotionalism is understandable. Yet railing against guns in general gets us nowhere. What are Costas and Gopnik suggesting? Confiscating some, most, or all of the 300 million firearms already in private hands? The Second Amendment, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, says that’s not happening. Our democratically grounded political system says that’s not happening. The United States, for better or worse, is a gun culture. Nearly half of American households have one or more guns, according to Gallup. Publicly mourning the degree to which firearms are woven into the fabric of our society only plays into the hands of those who contend that any discussion about regulating guns is a pretext for prohibition. The hard truth for gun foes is that the firearms are out there, and they’re not going away.
Assault weapons President Barack Obama supports a reinstatement of the assault weapons ban, according to White House aides. After asserting this position during his 2008 campaign, Obama dropped it, fearing a politically costly fight with the National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress. The Newtown shooting revives the issue because the killer used an assault weapon—more precisely, a semiautomatic military-style rifle—to kill most, and possibly all, his victims, according to the Connecticut medical examiner.
We tried an assault weapons ban from 1994 to 2004. It didn’t work. To avoid the restrictions of a poorly written law, gun manufacturers simply made cosmetic design changes and then enjoyed a sales boom. American gun enthusiasts reliably buy more of any make or model opponents want to deny them. Moreover, while black matte military-style rifles may look especially ominous to the uninitiated, they’re not more lethal, shot-for-shot, than grandpa’s wooden-stock deer hunting rifle (which is derived from an earlier generation of military weapons). Fully automatic machine guns—capable of firing a stream of bullets as long as the trigger is depressed—are already unavailable, unless you have a special permit. And finally, any proposal to ban the manufacture and sale of new assault weapons would do nothing about the many millions lawfully owned by private citizens. Democrats are not going to propose impounding rifles already in private gun racks.
Large-capacity magazines The coming proposals to limit the size of magazines, the spring-loaded boxes that contain ammunition, are more relevant, if no less controversial, than assault weapons “bans.” In a mass killing, the lethality of a semiautomatic rifle (or pistol) relates to how quickly and often the shooter can fire before reloading. Law enforcement officials said Sunday that the Newtown shooter used multiple 30-round magazines with his rifle, firing something on the order of 100 rounds in a very short period.
It’s not difficult to buy a 50-round “drum” magazine. Banning civilians from owning such magazines, it seems to me, would not infringe on anyone’s Second Amendment rights. Perhaps the same could be said for 30-round magazines, or 20-round magazines. Choosing the cap is necessarily arbitrary. The assault weapons ban of 1994-2004 prohibited the manufacture and sale of new magazines exceeding 10 rounds. In theory, we could reinstitute that rule.
The problem with restricting magazine capacity is that to make such a limitation meaningful, Congress would have to ban the possession of large magazines, not just the sale of new ones. Otherwise, the millions of big magazines already on the market will provide an ample supply to future mass killers. As a matter of political and law enforcement reality, are lawmakers prepared to send sheriffs and police out to take away all privately owned magazines exceeding 10 rounds? In the 1990s, the answer was no. Has that changed? I doubt it.
Background checks Here is where there’s room for achievable, meaningful improvement. The existing computerized background-check system screens out felons, minors, and other prohibited categories. The system has gaps, however. It covers only sales by federally licensed firearm dealers. “Private collectors” are allowed to sell guns without background checks. By some estimates, 40 percent of all sales slip through this gaping loophole. It ought to be closed. Nonlicensed sellers could be required to conduct their transactions via a licensed dealer, who would receive a small fee.
Improving the background-check system would make it more difficult for some significant number of shady characters to obtain guns. (They could still acquire them illegally, of course.) The Newtown shooter tried to buy a rifle at a local store shortly before his rampage and was turned away when he wouldn’t submit to a background check.
However, an improved background-check system would not have stopped the Newtown killer from doing what he did: scooping up his mother’s legally acquired guns before shooting her and all those teachers and children. Mass killers tend to be young men who, despite deranged minds and evil hearts, prepare carefully. Some have clean records before going berserk. Others obtain their weaponry from relatives or friends. Fixing background checks is worth doing. It won’t stop the next Newtown.
Mental illness Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Congress and executive branch agencies at the federal and state level can do more to make sure that disparate and often disorganized records of individuals who’ve been found to have serious mental health problems find their way into the background-check system. The law already prohibits people who’ve been adjudicated mentally ill from buying firearms. We need to do a better job of collecting and disseminating the relevant information.
Many who are dangerously mentally ill escape treatment that would prevent them from harming themselves and others. Short of mass murder, hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people commit crimes and end up in prison without adequate antipsychotic medication. It’s too difficult for relatives, friends, teachers, and others to civilly commit dangerously mentally ill individuals before they do harm.
Taking steps well short of incarceration—our current de facto policy for warehousing the dangerously mentally ill—would be a humane alternative for all concerned, and it could prevent school shootings. This is not gun control, per se, yet it deserves urgent attention.
Personal responsibility People who own guns need to keep them away from children and psychologically troubled members of their households. With the right to own firearms comes great responsibility. We don’t yet know all the details about the Newtown killer and his deceased mother. Yet it’s hard to imagine what she was thinking: a disturbed, antisocial, 20-year-old son and a half-dozen guns?
The most important gun control can’t be legislated. It’s common sense.
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Wow, Tyler, no end to the red meat being thrown to the HedgeHogs....
8 "non-white" kids were killed in a shoot-out related to crack cocaine this past weekend but no one puts that shit on the front pages.
Oh look, another 15 "non-white" kids were killed in another shoot-out related to prostitiution and crack cocaine.
Where the fuck is the crack reporting on that shit?
how many kids got shredded by drones this week? oh wait, that's just 'collateral damage' in the banker wars.
178 Children Murdered.. but the Zionist Owned Media is NOT! telling the Sheep to be sad about that! Genocide is OK! when the Zionists are doing it!
Go Team Bolsheviks!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkKJmPsV4Tc
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-greenwald/us-drone-strikes-are-caus_b_2224627.html
Better to train the People of Palestine Young!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_34sE8ND3-M
and meanwhile, while the MSM whips the U.S. population into an emotion frenzy over the murder of these schoolchildren... the military buildup in Turkey and Jordan continues at increasing pace... the mass slaughter that will soon follow will be of such a scale that most cannot even comprehend... carried out by the puppets that cry on cue for press conference. the level of depravity of those in control is beyond measure.
DISARMAMENT IS A PRELUDE TO GENOCIDE!
The people calling for banning guns are Racists.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords -Benjamin Franklin
Now that the elections are over, I watch The Sportsman Channel HD instead of mainstream media TV news.
500,000 fully automatic weapons in Swiss homes. That's FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUNS. Somehow they don't seem to have a big problem with gun violence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS4vadyYmds
An armed society is a polite society.
South Korea has very few guns and much less violent crime per capita. Most people are pretty polite, they just kill themselves rather than others.
Yeah, and do you know what the penalties are for any unaccounted ammo?
LOL.
as a swiss i can say you that every male in Switzerland doesnt have only a full auto rifle at home. he has also 50 5.56mm rounds.
yeh exactly. we do not use our weapons to solve personal conflicts. i think it's pretty normal.
Here's the essence of my argument, "If you try to take my guns, I will kill you."
A couple of points to ponder.
High capacity magazines? What 20 or 30 rounds?How about a belt fed machine gun like an MG-42.
Of course our right to have those unimpeded has already been abridged.
I want a 105mm pocket howitzer....but that's off the table too.
Slowly, over time gun rights are being eroded.The end point of this is genocide.We already torture,have a kill list, and can detain ANYONE forever at any time.
When an evil event occurs to respond with a proposal that paves the way for more evil is idiotic.
Pray for the many, many victims to come.Here and abroad.The insanity and power madness of our .gov quarantees it will only get worse.
Because no one is standing up to our government....and they are killing worldwide like champions.
Maybe we should try to rein them in......
I don't know much about the "level of depravity" in those in control, I've never met anyone in control, so I can't judge them, some how it seems to me, that, unless the shooters are part of some one elses agenda, ( you know, just doing what they have been trained and conditioned to do), than they are on the Wrong medications, if you are troubled by the news you are also taking the `Wrong`medication, when properly medicated, you will go through your day and remember nothing when you return home at night, every day is like every other day, you have neither joy or sadness nor the capacity for independent thought, you follow the program, as laid down for you, ideally you will be as unremarkable as any other Ant in the Ant hill. (This is the way to get along in the future!)
Hogwash to this article and the "voice of reason".
No coincidence that Sunday Night football two weeks ago took up the gun control issue and last night Sunday Night football featured Obama spewing the same rhetoric? C'mon. Who owns the media?
Nothing about war and killing the innocents in Afghan and Paki?
Many who are dangerously mentally ill escape treatment
No discussion of the common thread in the mass murders being psychotropic pharmaceuticals?
Lone gunman theory even though in Columbine and this tragedy, second / additional gunmen were earlier reported?
The writing is on the wall for those who can bear to look.
These agenda driven overlords know what's best for us and the end justifies the means. A well armed populace is a problem for them.
http://naturalsociety.com/connecticut-shooter-adam-lanza-on-hardcore-psy...
Who is Nick Meli ?
More to the question, what did he prevent in Clackamas ?
Some asshat doesn't know or care who Nick Meli is?
You, sir or madame are a genuine ASSHOLE.
Clackamas Town Center shooting: Man (Nick Meli) said he trained gun on Jacob Roberts ...https://www.google.com/search?q=Nick+Meli+Clackamas&oq=Nick+Meli+Clackam...
Dude, you don't need to get all upset over a down arrow. Just describe, or give us the link to, your point. Which you did do, upon retort.
Most of your post looks like white-space. For those of us who aren't contributors I'm pretty sure embedded pictures & video show up as blanks.
Regular URL's are fine: Portland Mall Shooter Stopped by CCW holder, Media lies by omission
These Fascist understand, know and are aware the jig is up. The American People understand the whole Global Criminal Synicate of Govenmemts and officials are GUILTY!
Their whole economic system is based on Criminal CIA/Intelligence Fraud, Espionage, Bribery, Extortion, Racketering, False Flags and Murder. The Criminals are running scared. The goal is to disarm The American People and institute the NWO of a Global Fascist Corporate Bankster Authoritarian Police State World Government.
The PsyOp and murder of children needed to have the maximum psychological effect on The American People. Make no mistake, the psycopath evil doers are preying on The American Peoples fear, anger and sympathy which creates division. Divide and conquer is The Globalist game.
Beg to differ with you. The American population does not understand the scenario you describe. More may be aware of some of the sanctioned illegal activity than 5 years ago but most still do not understand and will reject any conspiracy ideas.
I just attended a Liberty related party where the focus had been supporting Ron Paul and identifying the worst of the crony Republicans in Massachusetts. Maybe 10% attending had a grasp on the total picture. As committed as these folks were to getting good people into gov. and ending the Fed. they didn't understand the rest. A number of them thought the only way to fix the system was to get as many Democrats as possible defeated in the next election.
Don't assume what you think is true is what the majority thinks is true. The fictitious world that has been created for us has had several generations indoctrinated. It takes more than a few years of increasing expose' to alter the mind control that is entrenched.
Goat fucker lyind again.
"Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered, but never before have I watched as soldiers enticed children like mice into a trap and murdered them for sport."
Christopher Hedges, Pulitzer Prize Winning American Journalist, on assignment in Gaza
wow I'm already tired of the effing crocodile tears and phony concern from TPTB and MSM that I could puke. The most shameless exploitation of human tragedy I can remember....that a-hole POTUS should be ashamed, I don't care who you are.
Take your bully pulpit somewhere else dikhed.
...and don't forget those cunts, Gov. Malloy and Sen. Blumenthal of CT
They are a bunch of fucking vampires. Sickening.
" All bullets should cost $ 5,000. You know why ? Because if a bullet cost $ 5,000, there'd be no mo innocent bystanders ".
Chris Rock
Does the TSA get a discount on the 1.6 billion hollow point bullets to be used domestically they recently purchased?
No, the national debt will have to be increased by $8 trllion. Bullish!
Did We Just Kill A Kid?' — The Six Words That Ended A US Drone Pilot's Career
http://www.businessinsider.com/did-we-just-kill-a-kid-nicola-abe-der-spi...
An excellent example of the cancer that infests the nation. One group of child murderers are given medals and called heroes, the other are called monsters. You expect a retarded kid to be able to differentiate? Son of a bitch thought he was going to be a hero like all the other child killers he saw paraded on TV.
i dont really think that he killed 27 people for medals, you're totally wrong
what did the Crazyhorse pilots say after they "serviced" a civilian van that they KNEW contained children, with 20mm cannon fire? "shouldn't bring your kids to a battle."
They did not care that they just blew apart 2 children (so they believed). Somehow, miraculously, the kids escaped mostly unharmed, no thanks to our brave aviators. The holes in the windshield were gigantic, and our pilots did not intend to miss.
@almost solvent
it only matters who DOES the shooting; if it's a white person, it's news. If it's not, then it isn't, no matter who and how many they kill.
Chicago gets dozens per weekend; that's just ONE big, demographically-challenged city among many.
The news admittedly censors crime reports to govern possibility that people will associate crime with one or the other group (irrespective of whether this is in fact warranted) and they overplay news related to typically non-implicated groups. Dog bites man versus man bites dog.
My tweak would be to say that ALL THAT MATTERS is what news story (the shit that is REALLY gonna fuck you up) is being covered up & hidden when the emotional reporting of the headline crime takes up the whole front page...
From this comment, I guess you can say that the media (and perhaps society too) values white life in suburban Connecticut higher black children in Chicago or whereever else. Perhaps these 6 year olds were seen to contribute more to society than their darker-skinned counterparts.
What if the Newtown shooting was another false-flag event? There is a lot of weirdness about this story coming out, that is similar to the Aurora shootings. Namely the initial reports of multiple shooters that suddenly disappeared into the memory hole.
like my cousing says. there is a big difference between flu and ebola.
you're comparing little angels with shit. and that's not the case.
speaking of the 168 kids that were killed this year by USA drones is the case
As it should be. There is no end to the attacks against the second amendment and our few remaining " freedoms".
Yawn...
When the risk of anyone getting their guns confiscated becomes remotely possible I'll pay attention....
Just because people think someone is after them doesn't make it so...
you mean like in CA and other states where they used registration rolls to go door-to-door and demand weapons?
As far as your asinine condescension, the left wing is ON RECORD as desirous of total disarmament. I think you have confused motive with opportunity.
I really don't give a fuck about your guns or anybody elses, only my own....
Finally!... a somewhat sensible comment...
First they came for the automatic weapons, and I said nothing, because I didn't own any.
Then they came for the semi-automatics, and I said nothing, becuase I didn't own any.
Then they came for the bolt-action rifles, and I was fucked.
Well, some points need to be made.
Assault weapons in the wrong hands, is a diaster.
But, having the right to defense from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC is where this whole clusterfuck debate is going.
I looked at getting an AK, but decided I am tired of thinking of more possible bullshit for defense. But, my 12G riot gun and 357 may be pee shooters.
The democraps will be bitchin, repunks hiding... fun times for XXXXmas.
"All your guns are belong to us"
-Obama
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=215013
Karl Denninger correlates the shootings to giving young people drugs. A stretch but a definite possibility.
Denninger had 3 good posts on the Newtown shootings. All are worth reading.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=214954
A solutions post...
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=214983
And the final one the previous poster posted:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=215013
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Denigger is so full of himself, being a 1+ percenter.
Go waste you time on those who think they can fix with a pot of ponzi gotten money, soon to evaporate.
I'd rather play with my dog's shit that read the market divel.
In time, maybe you will figure it out, but I doubt it.
by one percenter you mean a lying douche, because he's not a 1% wealth. He's a liar and a blowhard.
Oh yeah? how many mass-murderers since Columbine haven't been on psyco-active, prescription drugs?
I don't expect to hear this detail, though I would not hesitate to bet you are absolutely right. The Statist media is already spinning the narrative that the mother was a "prepper." Disregarding that she was in fact the first, and perhaps the elemental, victim; the MSM wants us to understand that the old-fashioned liberty-obsessed American way of thinking is the cause of mass murder. Momma was too rigid in her fears of economic collapse and junior, who possesses no moral or mental agency for the purposes of THIS narrative, was perverted by mom's Romney-like thinking. The big O is choked up, and wants to ride to the rescue, so he shows up and consoles the inconsolable with a little celebrity fix-up (and probably signs an autograph or two). For what a person who has just lost his child to murder needs is that political asshole farting around faking shared pathos, then back to the target list and covering up Benghazi while entertaining race-baiters like his own good reverends. I am getting roundly sick of everything being a cynical self-serving lie.
Well ~ first we need to see if the '2nd shooter' was on drugs or not...
~~~
http://www.naturalnews.com/038352_school_shooting_lone_gunman_media_cover-up.html
~~~
& in the words of [quote] "SPRICTURE" (Here's Obama doing his best John Boner imitation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZRjY1dpVJ8
If gun control worked, Chicago would be one of the safest cities in the US.
Not to dispute your observation, but you should look up the concepts of "closed" and "open systems"....
I understand your point, but a number of drugs/substances are completely illegal/banned yet still find their way into the country, so I am led to believe that guns would find a way in too.
Humanity is an open system you fucking moron. You can't erase the idea of "gun" from every person in the world. If you ban their legal sale, people will manufacture them illegally. Then the only people with guns will be criminals. What genius our universities produce these days...
You are taking yourself far too seriously....
And the only JoTSC that would buy your twisted flawed argument would likely be Thomas...
At least use a good argument, there are better ones that are not strawmen....
You have no serious counter argument. Mainly you're just full of academic definitions which you don't understand or barely comprehend. Don't take it too hard though. It's only some of your fault. Such is the state of the "higher" education system.
You are so fucking thick that you don't even realize when someone is trying to help you....
Don;t flatter yourself, I don;t give a flying fuck about your guns...
So I take it you're not serious and hiding behind your "irony" today?
I howl about the twisted flawed logic that is flying fast and furious since the shooting trying to justify gun ownership...
If the asshats here had to argue any gun related case before the SCOTUS they would lose...
And I *really* don't care about yours or anybody elses guns, I have my own to worry about....
Reason and moral argument usually does lose before SCOTUS. Who your friends are and your prejudices are the ticket to winning there. If you don't know this already, check out the majority's Obamacare decision last June. As Roberts would have it, we are a raw democracy and it's winner take all no matter the process. Nice precedent that, mob rule.
You're batshit crazy.
And re-reading the thread leads me to believe that you have zero reading comprehension....
Finally take your meds and ready for a sane conversation?
That should be our new anthem!!
Can't blame guns in chi town alone. Rahm (the asshole supreme) emanual is mayor there.
My (our) dear Marla sets the record straight on Switzerland which has been dragged through the mud these few days past: http://finemrespice.com/node/120
If that's Marla Singer from the early days of ZH, do you know if there is a place where we can find her spinning?
It is Marla Singer from the early days, I confirmed it as well as I could back in July or so. I wasn't able to find any evidence of her DJing online still, sadly.
Thanks for the info, seek.
Swiss have shooting range in every village, it's almost their national sport and they only own long-range precision rifle. You will not found one Psycho Gun Nut in Switzerland.
Get serious. I buy p6's and Sig P220's for enjoyment.
I wouldn't call the sturmgewehr 90 a long-range rifle. The 5.6mm cartridge is an improvement on the NATO 5.56mm, but it is still a varmit round. However, qualification is at 300m (std. distance at Swiss rifle ranges) and many of the ranges here have "difficult" wind conditions, so shooters are precise with they rifles they possess.
I wasn't around for Marla, however that was a very nicely argued / researched piece - it didn't address why you can't compare EU countries with American ones [be it N, C, S], but was getting there.
Is that her permanent blog, or merely a guest spot? [Bookmarked if permanent]
Bill Hicks - "the right to bear arms is almost as stupid as the right to arm bears".
Since this tragic shooting there has reportedly been a massive rise in gun sales. A clamour to invest further in the very thing causing the problem.
"But but but....its part of the constituuuuution!"
Sadly, there aren't enough Americans like Hicks and I fear most will never learn
remind me, how did it work out for the Russians after the civilians got disarmed following the communist take over? oh yeah, that could never happen here...
You are on a roll....
Don't stop now...
Hey zhole this zero hedge, not zero brain.
You are lost so get back there and get lost.
I have been here for nigh on three years and have chewed up and spat out the likes of you so many times I have lost count...
Why don't you run along, find a quiet little corner and go fist yourself...
I concur. Don't stop Flakmeister, you are on your perpetual roll with down arrows.
he has done an excellent job, exposing himself.
You value the up arrows over the down arrows?
Do you go to bed at night thinking today was a good day because... He liked me, he really liked me...
Hee, hee, hee...
The Flakmeister troll likes the down arrows. Better negative attention than no attention. Which is why he's here... again... spamming another thread with shit posts... misbehaving to try and get mommy's attention.
Sorry if I interrupted your circle jerk...
Oh dear. John.. there are no "commies" pushing for gun control because they are hell bent on taking over America.
Strike 1 to the NRA for their successful paranoia campaign.
The only commies that will take over the USA will be the Chinese, and in fairness, they have friggin well earned it. You bought their garbage... now you owe *shrug*. You could always make lots of cheap Chairman Mao memorablia and sell it back to them for a few decades?
Then in the year 2050 when they become fat, lazy, ignorant, paranoid and unproductive enough... some other country can strike while the iron is hot!
You should try reading about the issues in China and realize they're not going to be taking over anything for an extended period of time. Their government might carry a big stick but it's for beating down millions of 'Chinese' that want to escape from the tyranny of their government. Google nail houses and start there.
Their societal and economic issues are as wide and deep as they are in America, it just doesn't make for good news while rattling our sabres against the evil commies.
And you're right, there are no commies trying to take over America, they're fascists, and from your posts I'm guessing you're a Eurozone pussy that thinks all the socialistic reforms taking place on that side of the pond are for your own good. Must not have taken a trip to the PIIGS recently to see your handiwork.
Shake N Bake!!
That just happened!!
It didn't work out too well for the starving people of Russia. It sucks when you can't fight back after your guns are confiscated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dV1aYxCzepI
The Holodomor.
Odd, I learned nothing of it in public school.
Dumbass; yes, we will take away your guns and rights and be very happy and staisfied to do it. Asshole.
check this out, http://youtu.be/08U5w_89EeM , clearing stores right out of guns before various mags & models are banned
Bill Hicks - "the right to bear arms is almost as stupid as the right to arm bears".
With apologies to Al Sharpton et al, just because it rhymes doesn't mean it's true.
Here is the REAL Wild Bill > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q9UJGdHo8Q < not your PUSSY Bill
Bill Hicks was truly a visionary. He began as a comedian, but toward the end of his life he was more of a prophet. He sought to tell us the truth and he knew they would kill him for it.
I know exactly what Bill Hicks has said about guns. I believe in the spirit of Bill's message regarding guns and violence; I dis-like violence as well. But what do you think Bill would do in the face of a tyrannical government beating down the door, demanding you go with them to a FEMA camp? What do you think Bill would do if they came to take his family, his property, or his freedom unjustly?
Are we to just give in to evil?
Answers:
Make a funny face with his mouth.
Try and tell a joke but get pistolwhipped before he gets to the punch line.
No.
"Since this tragic shooting there has reportedly been a massive rise in gun sales."
Was a flippin zoo at the gun counter at Walmart yesterday. Some of the folks seemed to be in a panic and alot of ammo and weapons were sold out.. It was an eye opener I am telling you, not to mention the amount of women buying black rifles as well.
Last time they banned regular capacity mags (i.e. 30 rounders for AR's) they doubled and trippled in price almost overnight.
I'm going to start a new ETF for re-hypothecated magazines if anyone is interested.
Brownell's still had PMAGs in stock for regular price Saturday. Not all colors but that's kind of normal.
Edit: On the other hand, this just ran on my news feed.
You forgot to add infinitum.
The most rational statement I read on the issue said
Give mental health professionals more power? One of the problems we have are general practioners giving young people drugs like prozac and other SSRI's like its candy! Most people who get this shit don't even see a real phycologist or phyciatrist.
And a data base of the severly mentally ill? Wow, I can see abuses there for sure. Like, if you bellieve in the Constitution of the United States, you could be mentally ill!
More power to detain those that pose risks. Under current guidelines, unless the person actually commits a crime, they cannot be forced into treatment/therapy/sectioned off from society.
"Under current guidelines, unless the person actually commits a crime, they cannot be forced into treatment/therapy/sectioned off from society."
And the problem with that is... what?
I sure as hell don't want to live in a place where individuals can be "sectioned off" who don't comform to society - by the judgement of that society.
Then you won't like Obamacare. How many articles are there all laying the groundwork to "prove" that an attachment to old fashioned liberty ideas are mental disorders?
....and this should extend to our police forces and all protection agencies correct?
They already undergo psych evaluations, so in a sense, they already do.
http://www.policemisconduct.net
These massacres are not merely about mentally disturbed loners or lax gun control laws. They are the logical outcome of an increasingly militarized culture that glorifies violence -- whose leaders publicly tout their "kill lists" and readiness to use armed force to further the "national interest." We are a gangster nation -- we should expect the occasional drive-by massacre.
When I saw the picture of Barack Obama, the mass murderer of Muslim children, weeping a bitter tear over the deaths of these children I could not believe the cognitive dissonance.
We as a country practice moral disengagement, like concentration camp commanders who could kill thousands in the day and come home to a loving family in the evening.
As long as psychopaths are included on the crazy list, I can identify at leat 536 psychopaths in D.C. that should be on that list
Your last bullet point got a down arrow from me.
The term "loophole" is a marketing device.
The idea came from the same group that makes crappy laws. There's no such thing as a loophole in legislation because as someone pointed out quite brilliantly, humanity is an open system.
Loopholes make them sound like a geological formation, an Act of God, that came out of nowhere. That's not true.
Obama only orders the Murder of American Citizens when he is wearing his Nobel Peace Prize.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guwllF2t5oI
The problem of the school shootings goes far beyond guns. This country has an ethos of violence, and every institution, from politics to media to entertainment, is responsible. We have a president who kills children daily with his drone program, and who has given himself the right to assassinate any US citizen he simply thinks might be anti-American (no trial by jury or presumption of innocence allowed).
On top of that, we have an entertainment industry that makes billions off the violence it assaults our senses with daily, a “defense” industry that is the biggest money pit in history, and politicians who stand in front of the entire world and lie just to get us into more useless and unnecessary wars. In light of the death and destruction of families, lives and property that this country has wreaked throughout the world, do we really expect to evade the consequences of our violence?
Cynthia: "This country has an ethos of violence, and every institution, from politics to media to entertainment, is responsible." "On top of that, we have an entertainment industry that makes billions off the violence it assaults our senses with daily, a “defense” industry that is the biggest money pit in history, and politicians who stand in front of the entire world and lie just to get us into more useless and unnecessary wars. In light of the death and destruction of families, lives and property that this country has wreaked throughout the world, do we really expect to evade the consequences of our violence?"
And who is responsible and has control over those items you specified? The people, the population. I point out like those that thought they were being cute by bringing up video game violence that the poster was not addressing the real problem. Even if video game violence or violence in movies is PROVEN to have have an effect - it is not the cause. No one forces one to watch a violent movie or play violent games. I hardly watch movies (or TV) at all. I don't waste my time with video games. In other words, I don't have that need - I have more important things in my life to fill that void.
Do you post on Facebook?
It is starting to sound like you are a dangerous loner like the Sandy Hook Killer because you do not conform to social norms.
I'd be interested in reading an analysis of the shooters and their employment status. It seems to me that they tend to be unemployed and "lost". I cringe when I think of all of the young men graduating from high school who are unemployed, not participating in productive activity, and have perhaps given up on their future. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.
I wonder what Suzanne Collins thinks - the occulist/satanist that wrote the 'Hunger Games' series....
You know...the trilogy about kids killing kids in a Dystopia, post-apocolyptic world...
.
Symbolic or coincidence?
.
Collins resides in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, with her husband and their two children.[5] She is a Roman Catholic.[17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Collins
I think the stranger coincidence is that the nutjob from CO and CONN's dads were involved in the LIBOR scandal at a high level. And the CONN kid's mom was preparing for a "financial crisis"-who better than the wife of a GE tax attorney would know better than anyone that the S might HTF. there are no such things as coincidences
According to Max Keiser, Otto, that story is a hoax:
http://maxkeiser.com/2012/12/17/mass-shootings-connected-to-libor-scandal/
Yeah ~ Max Keiser is the ultimate authority on the validity (or not), of all hoaxes worldwide...
Also debunked here:
http://occupycorporatism.com/no-viable-connection-between-peter-lanza-us...
I want to live beside Frank Herbert and Kim Stanley Robinson
Foreshadowing of the plot by the Illuminati? Terrence McKenna's Time Wave Zero? Random coincidence?
From 1:58 in the Batman Dark Knight movie. Only words legible on the map are "Sandy Hook"
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/kn50ce384e.jpg
Or for more fun from the past along those lines. Here is Neo's passport from the Matrix which expired on 9/11/2001
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Matrix-1999-Ne...
"The most important gun control can’t be legislated. It’s common sense."
Uh, there's the rub....that is in short supply.
omg! mainstream media addressed the mental illness correlation to gun violence. next thing you know they will cite the research that shows a 1% side effect of violence and/or suicides caused by ssri drugs. does businessweek want to go out of business for not towing the line?
Every mass shooting proves that the government can not protect you.
See the way the Israelis shepherd their classes around - with 2-4 armed people.
and yet the zionists in the U.S. government are the biggest proponents of gun control over the American population...
I see Hillary junked you
I think most people have junked john39. It's just about as bad as Flake meister. john 39 is an insult to the bible.
big chunks of the bible are an insult to God. wtfu.
Since going out this winter looks dangerous.. here is a nice reading list.
Project On Government Oversight
Here it is -- 10 Books That Matter: POGO's Winter Reading List. Have you read any of these? Do you have recommendations of your own? http://www.pogo.org/about/books/2013winter/2013-winter-books.html
enough of the crazy killers. they are obvious and predictable. let's address the child killer in chief.
killing little brown babies abroad doesn't count
We need new gear in the ZH store, stuff that reflects the slide into main stream mediocrity.
Maybe a ZH iPhone case.
Or maybe just change the tag line, "On a long enough timeline every site becomes the MSM."
I am sure that WaPo, Gallup, Business Week, The New Yorker, CNN, and the LA Times appreciate the traffic.
ZH needs an app.
What's the difference between an assault weapon and your basic gun..??
Seems you could assault anyone with a functioning plain old gun and a few bullets.
of course, but to the sheople, "assualt weapon ban" sounds logical and reasonable... because they don't understand the scope of what is being proposed.
TEX G
What's the difference between an assault weapon and your basic gun..??
Plenty, the true definition of an assault weapon, is a centerfire rifle of NOT full powered RIFLE amunition(intermediate powered cartridges), and is capable of Semi, and FULLY AUTOMATIC FIRE).
If it does not meet these two criteria, then it is not, never will be an ASSAULT WEAPON.....................
Seems you could assault anyone with a functioning plain old gun and a few bullets.
Yes, correct, you can ASSAULT anyone with your hand, fist,or knife ,fork, posicle stick,etc,etc.
Are there any fully automatic rifles for sale in the US? And if so, what make/model? I thought those were banned.
There are thousands and thousands of them, but there have been none added to the NFA register (a prerequisite for private transfer) since the NWO Fascist HW Bushy was running things.
Funny how none of those weapons ever get used in a crime...
There is no difference between an assault weapon and any other kind of weapon.
The term "assault weapon" is a marketing device used by the government to make firearms on a list they created seem scarier and more dangerous than weapons not on the list.
Don't be glamored by terms from the progressive, fascist, "go big or go home" government dickholes. They are very good, the best, at using words and images to get you to respond emotionally.
Respond intellectually.
I know, it's hard to think, but if thinking were easy, it'd be your mom!
Martin Niemoller, a German WW1 submarine captain, who, after the war, became a pastor and theologian, spoke about the inactivity of the German people following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. He spent 4 years in concentration camps for speaking the truth as he saw it, and narrowly escaped being assassinated by the SS guards.
So lets's look at his words and apply them today in the context of the American administration's 2012 purchase of 450 million rounds of hollow point ammunition:
First they will come for the 'terrorists',
And we will not speak out because we are not terrorists.
Then they will come for for the 'demonstrators',
And we will not speak out because we do not demonstrate.
Then they will come for the 'objectors',
And we will not speak out because we only object silently.
Then they will come for you;
And, it's likely that no one will speak out for you, because the powers that be will arrive in force and pick off the opposition one at a time! As individuals you will be vastly outnumbered!
If it happens, this is how it will be.
francis_sawyer is at the DEMONSTRATOR phase [by virtue of speaking out on ZH where the one of the principal problems exists]...
~~~
Luckily [for the rest of you ZH-ers] you have people like VAST-DOM [playing the part of the SS] to keep me silent...
Edit: Vast-Dom also appears to have patented a francis_sawyer seeking AUTO JUNK app for his kewl I-Phone for all you peeps that REALLY want to fit in with the NWO crowd... [Only .99 joobux at the app store ~ go & get one]...