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2012's Mass Shootings And Some "Gun Control" Observations

Tyler Durden's picture


With the resurgence of gun control politics storming to stage center over the past 72 hours, and providing yet another fulcrum point of social division precisely at the time when the nation is already hopelessly divided on other key political talking points which look set to push the Fiscal Cliff debate unresolved into 2013, below we provide two useful benchmarks to frame the "gun debate." The first, courtesy of WaPo, is an interactive chart of all mass shootings, including all the relevant details, taking place in 2012. The second, is a dispassionate and fact-based observation courtesy of BusinessWeek of the realities and challenges facing politicians, and the broader society, as America grapples with 200+ years of Second amendment history on one hand, and a society that is ever more "troubled", and increasingly prone to violence and murder on the other.

First, click on the chart below for a jump to the WaPo's succinct and interactive chart showing all 2012 mass murders.

Second, we recommend everyone read the following narrative from BusinessWeek's Paul Barrett, titled "A Post-Newtown Guide to the Gun Control Policy Debate", in which without any attempt to score political brownie points (a rare occurrence these days), the author "reviews some of the proposals that politicians and others will talk about in coming weeks."

From BusinessWeek:

Demonization A couple of weeks before Newtown, our premier sports broadcaster used his Sunday Night Football halftime soapbox to issue a heartfelt appeal for reducing the prevalence of handguns. Responding to the Kansas City Chiefs’ Jovan Belcher murder-suicide, Bob Costas said, said: “Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.” Similar pained cries have echoed in the wake of the Connecticut disaster —for example, this column by the New Yorker‘s Adam Gopnik, entitled, “Newtown and the Madness of Guns.”

The emotionalism is understandable. Yet railing against guns in general gets us nowhere. What are Costas and Gopnik suggesting? Confiscating some, most, or all of the 300 million firearms already in private hands? The Second Amendment, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, says that’s not happening. Our democratically grounded political system says that’s not happening. The United States, for better or worse, is a gun culture. Nearly half of American households have one or more guns, according to Gallup. Publicly mourning the degree to which firearms are woven into the fabric of our society only plays into the hands of those who contend that any discussion about regulating guns is a pretext for prohibition. The hard truth for gun foes is that the firearms are out there, and they’re not going away.

Assault weapons President Barack Obama supports a reinstatement of the assault weapons ban, according to White House aides. After asserting this position during his 2008 campaign, Obama dropped it, fearing a politically costly fight with the National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress. The Newtown shooting revives the issue because the killer used an assault weapon—more precisely, a semiautomatic military-style rifle—to kill most, and possibly all, his victims, according to the Connecticut medical examiner.

We tried an assault weapons ban from 1994 to 2004. It didn’t work. To avoid the restrictions of a poorly written law, gun manufacturers simply made cosmetic design changes and then enjoyed a sales boom. American gun enthusiasts reliably buy more of any make or model opponents want to deny them. Moreover, while black matte military-style rifles may look especially ominous to the uninitiated, they’re not more lethal, shot-for-shot, than grandpa’s wooden-stock deer hunting rifle (which is derived from an earlier generation of military weapons). Fully automatic machine guns—capable of firing a stream of bullets as long as the trigger is depressed—are already unavailable, unless you have a special permit. And finally, any proposal to ban the manufacture and sale of new assault weapons would do nothing about the many millions lawfully owned by private citizens. Democrats are not going to propose impounding rifles already in private gun racks.

Large-capacity magazines The coming proposals to limit the size of magazines, the spring-loaded boxes that contain ammunition, are more relevant, if no less controversial, than assault weapons “bans.” In a mass killing, the lethality of a semiautomatic rifle (or pistol) relates to how quickly and often the shooter can fire before reloading. Law enforcement officials said Sunday that the Newtown shooter used multiple 30-round magazines with his rifle, firing something on the order of 100 rounds in a very short period.

It’s not difficult to buy a 50-round “drum” magazine. Banning civilians from owning such magazines, it seems to me, would not infringe on anyone’s Second Amendment rights. Perhaps the same could be said for 30-round magazines, or 20-round magazines. Choosing the cap is necessarily arbitrary. The assault weapons ban of 1994-2004 prohibited the manufacture and sale of new magazines exceeding 10 rounds. In theory, we could reinstitute that rule.

The problem with restricting magazine capacity is that to make such a limitation meaningful, Congress would have to ban the possession of large magazines, not just the sale of new ones. Otherwise, the millions of big magazines already on the market will provide an ample supply to future mass killers. As a matter of political and law enforcement reality, are lawmakers prepared to send sheriffs and police out to take away all privately owned magazines exceeding 10 rounds? In the 1990s, the answer was no. Has that changed? I doubt it.

Background checks Here is where there’s room for achievable, meaningful improvement. The existing computerized background-check system screens out felons, minors, and other prohibited categories. The system has gaps, however. It covers only sales by federally licensed firearm dealers. “Private collectors” are allowed to sell guns without background checks. By some estimates, 40 percent of all sales slip through this gaping loophole. It ought to be closed. Nonlicensed sellers could be required to conduct their transactions via a licensed dealer, who would receive a small fee.

Improving the background-check system would make it more difficult for some significant number of shady characters to obtain guns. (They could still acquire them illegally, of course.) The Newtown shooter tried to buy a rifle at a local store shortly before his rampage and was turned away when he wouldn’t submit to a background check.

However, an improved background-check system would not have stopped the Newtown killer from doing what he did: scooping up his mother’s legally acquired guns before shooting her and all those teachers and children. Mass killers tend to be young men who, despite deranged minds and evil hearts, prepare carefully. Some have clean records before going berserk. Others obtain their weaponry from relatives or friends. Fixing background checks is worth doing. It won’t stop the next Newtown.

Mental illness Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Congress and executive branch agencies at the federal and state level can do more to make sure that disparate and often disorganized records of individuals who’ve been found to have serious mental health problems find their way into the background-check system. The law already prohibits people who’ve been adjudicated mentally ill from buying firearms. We need to do a better job of collecting and disseminating the relevant information.

Many who are dangerously mentally ill escape treatment that would prevent them from harming themselves and others. Short of mass murder, hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people commit crimes and end up in prison without adequate antipsychotic medication. It’s too difficult for relatives, friends, teachers, and others to civilly commit dangerously mentally ill individuals before they do harm.

Taking steps well short of incarceration—our current de facto policy for warehousing the dangerously mentally ill—would be a humane alternative for all concerned, and it could prevent school shootings. This is not gun control, per se, yet it deserves urgent attention.

Personal responsibility People who own guns need to keep them away from children and psychologically troubled members of their households. With the right to own firearms comes great responsibility. We don’t yet know all the details about the Newtown killer and his deceased mother. Yet it’s hard to imagine what she was thinking: a disturbed, antisocial, 20-year-old son and a half-dozen guns?

The most important gun control can’t be legislated. It’s common sense.


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Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:40 | 3072103 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Wow, Tyler, no end to the red meat being thrown to the HedgeHogs....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:48 | 3072142 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

8 "non-white" kids were killed in a shoot-out related to crack cocaine this past weekend but no one puts that shit on the front pages.


Oh look, another 15 "non-white" kids were killed in another shoot-out related to prostitiution and crack cocaine.

Where the fuck is the crack reporting on that shit?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:48 | 3072163 john39
john39's picture

how many kids got shredded by drones this week?  oh wait, that's just 'collateral damage' in the banker wars.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:00 | 3072194 Goy_Debt_Slave
Goy_Debt_Slave's picture



178 Children Murdered.. but the Zionist Owned Media is NOT! telling the Sheep to be sad about that! Genocide is OK! when the Zionists are doing it!

Go Team Bolsheviks!!


Better to train the People of Palestine Young!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:01 | 3072249 john39
john39's picture

and meanwhile, while the MSM whips the U.S. population into an emotion frenzy over the murder of these schoolchildren... the military buildup in Turkey and Jordan continues at increasing pace...  the mass slaughter that will soon follow will be of such a scale that most cannot even comprehend...  carried out by the puppets that cry on cue for press conference.  the level of depravity of those in control is beyond measure.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:24 | 3072380 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:29 | 3072401 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The people calling for banning guns are Racists.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:45 | 3072486 AnonymousCitizen
AnonymousCitizen's picture

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords -Benjamin Franklin

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:28 | 3072654 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Now that the elections are over, I watch The Sportsman Channel HD instead of mainstream media TV news.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:32 | 3072673 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

500,000 fully automatic weapons in Swiss homes. That's FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUNS. Somehow they don't seem to have a big problem with gun violence.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:38 | 3072697 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

An armed society is a polite society.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 03:19 | 3074051 dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

South Korea has very few guns and much less violent crime per capita. Most people are pretty polite, they just kill themselves rather than others. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:01 | 3072781 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeah, and do you know what the penalties are for any unaccounted ammo?

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 04:21 | 3074075 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture



as a swiss i can say you that every male in Switzerland doesnt have only a full auto rifle at home. he has also 50 5.56mm rounds.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 04:19 | 3074073 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

yeh exactly. we do not use our weapons to solve personal conflicts. i think it's pretty normal.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:29 | 3072656 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

Here's the essence of my argument, "If you try to take my guns, I will kill you."

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:34 | 3073074 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

A couple of points to ponder.

 High capacity magazines? What 20 or 30 rounds?How about a belt fed machine gun like an MG-42.

  Of course our right to have those unimpeded has already been abridged.

 I want a 105mm pocket howitzer....but that's off the table too.

 Slowly, over time gun rights are being eroded.The end point of this is genocide.We already torture,have a kill list, and can detain ANYONE forever at any time.


  When an evil event occurs to respond with a proposal that paves the way for more evil is idiotic.


 Pray for the many, many victims to come.Here and abroad.The insanity and power madness of our .gov quarantees it will only get worse.


 Because no one is standing up to our government....and they are killing worldwide like champions.

       Maybe we should try to rein them in......

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:25 | 3072637 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

I don't know much about the "level of depravity" in those in control, I've never met anyone in control, so I can't judge them, some how it seems to me, that, unless the shooters are part of some one elses agenda, ( you know, just doing what they have been trained and conditioned to do), than they are on the Wrong medications, if you are troubled by the news you are also taking the `Wrong`medication, when properly medicated, you will go through your day and remember nothing when you return home at night, every day is like every other day, you have neither joy or sadness nor the capacity for independent thought, you follow the program, as laid down for you, ideally you will be as unremarkable as any other Ant in the Ant hill. (This is the way to get along in the future!)

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:03 | 3072770 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Hogwash to this article and the "voice of reason".

No coincidence that Sunday Night football two weeks ago took up the gun control issue and last night Sunday Night football featured Obama spewing the same rhetoric? C'mon. Who owns the media?

Nothing about war and killing the innocents in Afghan and Paki?

Many who are dangerously mentally ill escape treatment

No discussion of the common thread in the mass murders being psychotropic pharmaceuticals?

Lone gunman theory even though in Columbine and this tragedy, second / additional gunmen were earlier reported?

The writing is on the wall for those who can bear to look.

These agenda driven overlords know what's best for us and the end justifies the means. A well armed populace is a problem for them.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:47 | 3073263 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

















Who is Nick Meli ?






More to the question, what did he prevent in Clackamas ?













Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:59 | 3073303 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture





Some asshat doesn't know or care who Nick Meli is?

You, sir or madame are a genuine ASSHOLE.



Clackamas Town Center shooting: Man (Nick Meli) said he trained gun on Jacob Roberts ...

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 00:22 | 3073796 Stranded Observer
Stranded Observer's picture

Dude, you don't need to get all upset over a down arrow.  Just describe, or give us the link to, your point.  Which you did do, upon retort.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 02:26 | 3073992 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Most of your post looks like white-space. For those of us who aren't contributors I'm pretty sure embedded pictures & video show up as blanks.

Regular URL's are fine: Portland Mall Shooter Stopped by CCW holder, Media lies by omission

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:02 | 3072422 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

These Fascist understand, know and are aware the jig is up.  The American People understand the whole Global Criminal Synicate of Govenmemts and officials are GUILTY!

Their whole economic system is based on Criminal CIA/Intelligence Fraud, Espionage, Bribery, Extortion, Racketering, False Flags and Murder.  The Criminals are running scared.  The goal is to disarm The American People and institute the NWO of a Global Fascist Corporate Bankster Authoritarian Police State World Government. 

The PsyOp and murder of children needed to have the maximum psychological effect on The American People.  Make no mistake, the psycopath evil doers are preying on The American Peoples fear, anger and sympathy which creates division.   Divide and conquer is The Globalist game. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:06 | 3072568 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Beg to differ with you. The American population does not understand the scenario you describe. More may be aware of some of the sanctioned illegal activity than 5 years ago but most still do not understand and will reject any conspiracy ideas.

I just attended a Liberty related party where the focus had been supporting Ron Paul and identifying the worst of the crony Republicans in Massachusetts. Maybe 10% attending had a grasp on the total picture. As committed as these folks were to getting good people into gov. and ending the Fed. they didn't understand the rest. A number of them thought the only way to fix the system was to get as many Democrats as possible defeated in the next election.

Don't assume what you think is true is what the majority thinks is true. The fictitious world that has been created for us has had several generations indoctrinated. It takes more than a few years of increasing expose' to alter the mind control that is entrenched.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:16 | 3072607 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Goat fucker lyind again.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:32 | 3072901 Laddie
Laddie's picture

"Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered, but never before have I watched as soldiers enticed children like mice into a trap and murdered them for sport."
Christopher Hedges, Pulitzer Prize Winning American Journalist, on assignment in Gaza

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:02 | 3072207 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

wow I'm already tired of the effing crocodile tears and phony concern from TPTB and MSM that I could puke.  The most shameless exploitation of human tragedy I can remember....that a-hole POTUS should be ashamed, I don't care who you are. 


Take your bully pulpit somewhere else dikhed.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:21 | 3072626 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

...and don't forget those cunts, Gov. Malloy and Sen. Blumenthal of CT

They are a bunch of fucking vampires. Sickening.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:02 | 3072256 Rainman
Rainman's picture

" All bullets should cost $ 5,000. You know why ? Because if a bullet cost $ 5,000, there'd be no mo innocent bystanders ".

                                                    Chris Rock



Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:38 | 3072436 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Does the TSA get a discount on the 1.6 billion hollow point bullets to be used domestically they recently purchased?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 21:36 | 3073419 Matt
Matt's picture

No, the national debt will have to be increased by $8 trllion. Bullish!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:16 | 3072343 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

Did We Just Kill A Kid?' — The Six Words That Ended A US Drone Pilot's Career

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:05 | 3072564 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

An excellent example of the cancer that infests the nation. One group of child murderers are given medals and called heroes, the other are called monsters. You expect a retarded kid to be able to differentiate? Son of a bitch thought he was going to be a hero like all the other child killers he saw paraded on TV.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 04:25 | 3074076 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

i dont really think that he killed 27 people for medals, you're totally wrong

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:42 | 3072714 trav777
trav777's picture

what did the Crazyhorse pilots say after they "serviced" a civilian van that they KNEW contained children, with 20mm cannon fire?  "shouldn't bring your kids to a battle."

They did not care that they just blew apart 2 children (so they believed).  Somehow, miraculously, the kids escaped mostly unharmed, no thanks to our brave aviators.  The holes in the windshield were gigantic, and our pilots did not intend to miss.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:45 | 3072485 trav777
trav777's picture

@almost solvent

it only matters who DOES the shooting; if it's a white person, it's news.  If it's not, then it isn't, no matter who and how many they kill.

Chicago gets dozens per weekend;  that's just ONE big, demographically-challenged city among many.

The news admittedly censors crime reports to govern possibility that people will associate crime with one or the other group (irrespective of whether this is in fact warranted) and they overplay news related to typically non-implicated groups.  Dog bites man versus man bites dog.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:03 | 3072554 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

My tweak would be to say that ALL THAT MATTERS is what news story (the shit that is REALLY gonna fuck you up) is being covered up & hidden when the emotional reporting of the headline crime takes up the whole front page...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:58 | 3072516 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

From this comment, I guess you can say that the media (and perhaps society too) values white life in suburban Connecticut higher black children in Chicago or whereever else. Perhaps these 6 year olds were seen to contribute more to society than their darker-skinned counterparts.




Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:26 | 3072643 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

What if the Newtown shooting was another false-flag event? There is a lot of weirdness about this story coming out, that is similar to the Aurora shootings. Namely the initial reports of multiple shooters that suddenly disappeared into the memory hole.


Tue, 12/18/2012 - 04:16 | 3074072 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

like my cousing says. there is a big difference between flu and ebola.


you're comparing little angels with shit. and that's not the case.


speaking of the 168 kids that were killed this year by USA drones is the case

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:50 | 3072180 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

As it should be. There is no end to the attacks against the second amendment and our few remaining " freedoms".

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:27 | 3072389 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


When the risk of anyone getting their guns confiscated becomes remotely possible I'll pay attention....

Just because people think someone is after them doesn't make it so...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:44 | 3072723 trav777
trav777's picture

you mean like in CA and other states where they used registration rolls to go door-to-door and demand weapons?

As far as your asinine condescension, the left wing is ON RECORD as desirous of total disarmament.  I think you have confused motive with opportunity.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:03 | 3072789 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I really don't give a fuck about your guns or anybody elses, only my own....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:47 | 3072945 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Finally!... a somewhat sensible comment...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 21:44 | 3073438 Matt
Matt's picture

First they came for the automatic weapons, and I said nothing, because I didn't own any.

Then they came for the semi-automatics, and I said nothing, becuase I didn't own any.

Then they came for the bolt-action rifles, and I was fucked.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:53 | 3072198 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Well, some points need to be made.

Assault weapons in the wrong hands, is a diaster.

But, having the right to defense from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC is where this whole clusterfuck debate is going.

I looked at getting an AK, but decided I am tired of thinking of more possible bullshit for defense. But, my 12G riot gun and 357 may be pee shooters.

The democraps will be bitchin, repunks hiding... fun times for XXXXmas.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:19 | 3072355 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

"All your guns are belong to us"


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:43 | 3072123 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Karl Denninger correlates the shootings to giving young people drugs. A stretch but a definite possibility.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:54 | 3072197 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture


Denninger had 3 good posts on the Newtown shootings.  All are worth reading.

A solutions post...

And the final one the previous poster posted:

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:50 | 3072508 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Denigger is so full of himself, being a 1+ percenter.

Go waste you time on those who think they can fix with a pot of ponzi gotten money, soon to evaporate.

I'd rather play with my dog's shit that read the market divel.

In time, maybe you will figure it out, but I doubt it.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:45 | 3072730 trav777
trav777's picture

by one percenter you mean a lying douche, because he's not a 1% wealth.  He's a liar and a blowhard.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:55 | 3072210 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Oh yeah? how many mass-murderers since Columbine haven't been on psyco-active, prescription drugs?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:43 | 3072720 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

I don't expect to hear this detail, though I would not hesitate to bet you are absolutely right. The Statist media is already spinning the narrative that the mother was a "prepper." Disregarding that she was in fact the first, and perhaps the elemental, victim; the MSM wants us to understand that the old-fashioned liberty-obsessed American way of thinking is the cause of mass murder. Momma was too rigid in her fears of economic collapse and junior, who possesses no moral or mental agency for the purposes of THIS narrative, was perverted by mom's Romney-like thinking. The big O is choked up, and wants to ride to the rescue, so he shows up and consoles the inconsolable with a little celebrity fix-up (and probably signs an autograph or two). For what a person who has just lost his child to murder needs is that political asshole farting around faking shared pathos, then back to the target list and covering up Benghazi while entertaining race-baiters like his own good reverends. I am getting roundly sick of everything being a cynical self-serving lie. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:08 | 3072809 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Well ~ first we need to see if the '2nd shooter' was on drugs or not...



& in the words of [quote] "SPRICTURE" (Here's Obama doing his best John Boner imitation)

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:45 | 3072135 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

If gun control worked, Chicago would be one of the safest cities in the US.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:52 | 3072186 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not to dispute your observation, but you should look up the concepts of "closed" and "open systems"....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072221 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

I understand your point, but a number of drugs/substances are completely illegal/banned yet still find their way into the country, so I am led to believe that guns would find a way in too.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:59 | 3072234 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Humanity is an open system you fucking moron. You can't erase the idea of "gun" from every person in the world. If you ban their legal sale, people will manufacture them illegally. Then the only people with guns will be criminals. What genius our universities produce these days...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:31 | 3072412 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are taking yourself far too seriously....

And the only JoTSC that would buy your twisted flawed argument would likely be Thomas...

At least use a good argument, there are better ones that are not strawmen....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:01 | 3072543 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

You have no serious counter argument. Mainly you're just full of academic definitions which you don't understand or barely comprehend. Don't take it too hard though. It's only some of your fault. Such is the state of the "higher" education system.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:03 | 3072556 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are so fucking thick that you don't even realize when someone is trying to help you....

Don;t flatter yourself, I don;t give a flying fuck about your guns...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:10 | 3072582 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

So I take it you're not serious and hiding behind your "irony" today?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:36 | 3072688 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I howl about the twisted flawed logic that is flying fast and furious since the shooting trying to justify gun ownership...

If the asshats here had to argue any gun related case before the SCOTUS they would lose...

And I *really* don't care about yours or anybody elses guns, I have my own to worry about....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:47 | 3072741 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Reason and moral argument usually does lose before SCOTUS. Who your friends are and your prejudices are the ticket to winning there. If you don't know this already, check out the majority's Obamacare decision last June. As Roberts would have it, we are a raw democracy and it's winner take all no matter the process. Nice precedent that, mob rule. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:49 | 3072743 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

You're batshit crazy.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 22:18 | 3073523 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And re-reading the thread leads me to believe that you have zero reading comprehension....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 23:10 | 3073632 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Finally take your meds and ready for a sane conversation?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:11 | 3072583 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Humanity is an open system you fucking moron. 

That should be our new anthem!!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:57 | 3072224 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Can't blame guns in chi town alone. Rahm (the asshole supreme) emanual is mayor there.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:48 | 3072136 Mercury
Mercury's picture

My (our) dear Marla sets the record straight on Switzerland which has been dragged through the mud these few days past:


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072233 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

If that's Marla Singer from the early days of ZH, do you know if there is a place where we can find her spinning?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:28 | 3072397 seek
seek's picture

It is Marla Singer from the early days, I confirmed it as well as I could back in July or so. I wasn't able to find any evidence of her DJing online still, sadly.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:44 | 3072482 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Thanks for the info, seek.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:16 | 3072326 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Swiss have shooting range in every village, it's almost their national sport and they only own long-range precision rifle. You will not found one Psycho Gun Nut in Switzerland.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:29 | 3072398 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Get serious.  I buy p6's and Sig P220's for enjoyment.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:18 | 3072852 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I wouldn't call the sturmgewehr 90 a long-range rifle.  The 5.6mm cartridge is an improvement on the NATO 5.56mm, but it is still a varmit round.  However, qualification is at 300m (std. distance at Swiss rifle ranges) and many of the ranges here have "difficult" wind conditions, so shooters are precise with they rifles they possess.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:41 | 3072715 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I wasn't around for Marla, however that was a very nicely argued / researched piece - it didn't address why you can't compare EU countries with American ones [be it N, C, S], but was getting there.


Is that her permanent blog, or merely a guest spot? [Bookmarked if permanent]

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:45 | 3072140 loftgroovv
loftgroovv's picture

Bill Hicks - "the right to bear arms is almost as stupid as the right to arm bears".


Since this tragic shooting there has reportedly been a massive rise in gun sales. A clamour to invest further in the very thing causing the problem.


"But but but....its part of the constituuuuution!"


Sadly, there aren't enough Americans like Hicks and I fear most will never learn

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:49 | 3072173 john39
john39's picture

remind me, how did it work out for the Russians after the civilians got disarmed following the communist take over?  oh yeah, that could never happen here...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:52 | 3072190 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are on a roll....

Don't stop now...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:01 | 3072241 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Hey zhole this zero hedge, not zero brain.

You are lost so get back there and get lost.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:34 | 3072426 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I have been here for nigh on three years and have chewed up and spat out the likes of you so many times I have lost count...

Why don't you run along, find a quiet little corner and go fist yourself...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:01 | 3072253 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I concur. Don't stop Flakmeister, you are on your perpetual roll with down arrows.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:20 | 3072360 john39
john39's picture

he has done an excellent job, exposing himself.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:27 | 3072390 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

You value the up arrows over the down arrows?

Do you go to bed at night thinking today was a good day because... He liked me, he really liked me...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:32 | 3072416 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hee, hee, hee...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:01 | 3072784 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

The Flakmeister troll likes the down arrows.  Better negative attention than no attention.  Which is why he's here... again... spamming another thread with shit posts... misbehaving to try and get mommy's attention.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:05 | 3072797 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sorry if I interrupted your circle jerk...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:00 | 3072227 loftgroovv
loftgroovv's picture

Oh dear. John.. there are no "commies" pushing for gun control because they are hell bent on taking over America.

Strike 1 to the NRA for their successful paranoia campaign.


The only commies that will take over the USA will be the Chinese, and in fairness, they have friggin well earned it. You bought their garbage... now you owe *shrug*. You could always make lots of cheap Chairman Mao memorablia and sell it back to them for a few decades?

Then in the year 2050 when they become fat, lazy, ignorant, paranoid and unproductive enough... some other country can strike while the iron is hot!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:37 | 3072447 harami
harami's picture

You should try reading about the issues in China and realize they're not going to be taking over anything for an extended period of time.  Their government might carry a big stick but it's for beating down millions of 'Chinese' that want to escape from the tyranny of their government.  Google nail houses and start there.

Their societal and economic issues are as wide and deep as they are in America, it just doesn't make for good news while rattling our sabres against the evil commies.

And you're right, there are no commies trying to take over America, they're fascists, and from your posts I'm guessing you're a Eurozone pussy that thinks all the socialistic reforms taking place on that side of the pond are for your own good.  Must not have taken a trip to the PIIGS recently to see your handiwork.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:13 | 3072594 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Shake N Bake!!

That just happened!!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:03 | 3072261 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

It didn't work out too well for the starving people of Russia.  It sucks when you can't fight back after your guns are confiscated.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 22:40 | 3073563 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

The Holodomor.

  Odd, I learned nothing of it in public school.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:20 | 3073034 PeteJE
PeteJE's picture

Dumbass; yes, we will take away your guns and rights and be very happy and staisfied to do it.  Asshole.

Sun, 12/23/2012 - 05:40 | 3091039 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

check this out, , clearing stores right out of guns before various mags & models are banned

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072229 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Bill Hicks - "the right to bear arms is almost as stupid as the right to arm bears".


With apologies to Al Sharpton et al, just because it rhymes doesn't mean it's true.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072232 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Here is the REAL Wild Bill > < not your PUSSY Bill

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:17 | 3072348 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

Bill Hicks was truly a visionary. He began as a comedian, but toward the end of his life he was more of a prophet. He sought to tell us the truth and he knew they would kill him for it.

I know exactly what Bill Hicks has said about guns. I believe in the spirit of Bill's message regarding guns and violence; I dis-like violence as well. But what do you think Bill would do in the face of a tyrannical government beating down the door, demanding you go with them to a FEMA camp? What do you think Bill would do if they came to take his family, his property, or his freedom unjustly?

Are we to just give in to evil?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:15 | 3072605 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture


Make a funny face with his mouth.

Try and tell a joke but get pistolwhipped before he gets to the punch line.


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:58 | 3072410 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

"Since this tragic shooting there has reportedly been a massive rise in gun sales."

Was a flippin zoo at the gun counter at Walmart yesterday. Some of the folks seemed to be in a panic and alot of ammo and weapons were sold out.. It was an eye opener I am telling you, not to mention the amount of women buying black rifles as well.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:15 | 3072597 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Last time they banned regular capacity mags (i.e. 30 rounders for AR's) they doubled and trippled in price almost overnight.

I'm going to start a new ETF for re-hypothecated magazines if anyone is interested.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 00:12 | 3073085 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Brownell's still had PMAGs in stock for regular price Saturday. Not all colors but that's kind of normal.

Edit: On the other hand, this just ran on my news feed.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:45 | 3072143 q99x2
q99x2's picture

You forgot to add infinitum.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:46 | 3072145 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

The most rational statement I read on the issue said

"Be honest with yourself, banning guns in the US isn't happening.  More realistic

  • Gun permits should require training and mental evaluations that the person's expense.
  • Guns are the owners responsibility, along with what is done with it.  Your gun used in a massacre? You're an accessory.  That's right, keep the fucking things locked unless you're carrying it.
  • Give mental health professionals more power.  The severally mentally ill, need to be sectioned if they refuse treatment, they clearly pose a greater threat then your neighborhood pothead.  We're too soft on real threats, and too hard on victimless ones.
  • A database should be created and maintained through a gun tax to indentifity potential crazies and refuse them guns.
  • Close loopholes on gun sales.
Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:53 | 3072199 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Give mental health professionals more power? One of the problems we have are general practioners giving young people drugs like prozac and other SSRI's like its candy! Most people who get this shit don't even see a real phycologist or phyciatrist.


And a data base of the severly mentally ill? Wow, I can see abuses there for sure. Like, if you bellieve in the Constitution of the United States, you could be mentally ill!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:06 | 3072269 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

More power to detain those that pose risks.  Under current guidelines, unless the person actually commits a crime, they cannot be forced into treatment/therapy/sectioned off from society.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:05 | 3072565 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

"Under current guidelines, unless the person actually commits a crime, they cannot be forced into treatment/therapy/sectioned off from society."

And the problem with that is... what?


I sure as hell don't want to live in a place where individuals can be "sectioned off" who don't comform to society - by the judgement of that society.


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:04 | 3072793 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Then you won't like Obamacare. How many articles are there all laying the groundwork to "prove" that an attachment to old fashioned liberty ideas are mental disorders? 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:00 | 3072240 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

....and this should extend to our police forces and all protection agencies correct?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:06 | 3072274 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

They already undergo psych evaluations, so in a sense, they already do.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:41 | 3073100 XitSam
Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:04 | 3072270 Cynthia
Cynthia's picture

These massacres are not merely about mentally disturbed loners or lax gun control laws. They are the logical outcome of an increasingly militarized culture that glorifies violence -- whose leaders publicly tout their "kill lists" and readiness to use armed force to further the "national interest." We are a gangster nation -- we should expect the occasional drive-by massacre.

When I saw the picture of Barack Obama, the mass murderer of Muslim children, weeping a bitter tear over the deaths of these children I could not believe the cognitive dissonance.

We as a country practice moral disengagement, like concentration camp commanders who could kill thousands in the day and come home to a loving family in the evening. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:05 | 3072275 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture
  • People should understand their guns and protect them from theft
  • Tell mental professionals to go fuck themselves and get a real job.
  • A data base should be created to identify crazies? You are proof that it won't work.
Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:22 | 3072371 mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

As long as psychopaths are included on the crazy list,  I can identify at leat 536 psychopaths in D.C. that should be on that list


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:18 | 3072618 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Your last bullet point got a down arrow from me.

The term "loophole" is a marketing device.  

The idea came from the same group that makes crappy laws.  There's no such thing as a loophole in legislation because as someone pointed out quite brilliantly, humanity is an open system.

Loopholes make them sound like a geological formation, an Act of God, that came out of nowhere.  That's not true.


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:46 | 3072151 Goy_Debt_Slave
Goy_Debt_Slave's picture

Obama only orders the Murder of American Citizens when he is wearing his Nobel Peace Prize.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:47 | 3072153 Cynthia
Cynthia's picture

The problem of the school shootings goes far beyond guns. This country has an ethos of violence, and every institution, from politics to media to entertainment, is responsible. We have a president who kills children daily with his drone program, and who has given himself the right to assassinate any US citizen he simply thinks might be anti-American (no trial by jury or presumption of innocence allowed).

On top of that, we have an entertainment industry that makes billions off the violence it assaults our senses with daily, a “defense” industry that is the biggest money pit in history, and politicians who stand in front of the entire world and lie just to get us into more useless and unnecessary wars. In light of the death and destruction of families, lives and property that this country has wreaked throughout the world, do we really expect to evade the consequences of our violence?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:09 | 3072293 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Cynthia:  "This country has an ethos of violence, and every institution, from politics to media to entertainment, is responsible." "On top of that, we have an entertainment industry that makes billions off the violence it assaults our senses with daily, a “defense” industry that is the biggest money pit in history, and politicians who stand in front of the entire world and lie just to get us into more useless and unnecessary wars. In light of the death and destruction of families, lives and property that this country has wreaked throughout the world, do we really expect to evade the consequences of our violence?"


And who is responsible and has control over those items you specified? The people, the population. I point out like those that thought they were being cute by bringing up video game violence that the poster was not addressing the real problem. Even if video game violence or violence in movies is PROVEN to have have an effect - it is not the cause. No one forces one to watch a violent movie or play violent games. I hardly watch movies (or TV) at all. I don't waste my time with video games. In other words, I don't have that need - I have more important things in my life to fill that void.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 22:09 | 3073502 Matt
Matt's picture

Do you post on Facebook?

It is starting to sound like you are a dangerous loner like the Sandy Hook Killer because you do not conform to social norms.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:47 | 3072155 L_Conquistador
L_Conquistador's picture

I'd be interested in reading an analysis of the shooters and their employment status.  It seems to me that they tend to be unemployed and "lost".  I cringe when I think of all of the young men graduating from high school who are unemployed, not participating in productive activity, and have perhaps given up on their future.  Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:49 | 3072158 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

I wonder what Suzanne Collins thinks - the occulist/satanist that wrote the 'Hunger Games' series....

You know...the trilogy about kids killing kids in a Dystopia, post-apocolyptic world...


Symbolic or coincidence?


Collins resides in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, with her husband and their two children.[5] She is a Roman Catholic.[17]

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072222 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think the stranger coincidence is that the nutjob from CO and CONN's dads were involved in the LIBOR scandal at a high level. And the CONN kid's mom was preparing for a "financial crisis"-who better than the wife of a GE tax attorney would know better than anyone that the S might HTF. there are no such things as coincidences

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:54 | 3072518 Cynthia
Cynthia's picture

According to Max Keiser, Otto, that story is a hoax:


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:20 | 3072859 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah ~ Max Keiser is the ultimate authority on the validity (or not), of all hoaxes worldwide...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:10 | 3072300 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

I want to live beside Frank Herbert and Kim Stanley Robinson

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:32 | 3072676 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Foreshadowing of the plot by the Illuminati? Terrence McKenna's Time Wave Zero? Random coincidence?

From 1:58 in the Batman Dark Knight movie.  Only words legible on the map are "Sandy Hook"

Or for more fun from the past along those lines.  Here is Neo's passport from the Matrix which expired on 9/11/2001


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:48 | 3072161 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

"The most important gun control can’t be legislated. It’s common sense."


Uh, there's the rub....that is in short supply.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:48 | 3072165 besnook
besnook's picture

omg! mainstream media addressed the mental illness correlation to gun violence. next thing you know they will cite the research that shows a 1% side effect of violence and/or suicides caused by ssri drugs. does businessweek want to go out of business for not towing the line?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:49 | 3072166 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Every mass shooting proves that the government can not protect you.

See the way the Israelis shepherd their classes around - with 2-4 armed people.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:53 | 3072193 john39
john39's picture

and yet the zionists in the U.S. government are the biggest proponents of gun control over the American population... 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:58 | 3072231 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I see Hillary junked you

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:11 | 3072315 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I think most people have junked john39. It's just about as bad as Flake meister. john 39 is an insult to the bible.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:40 | 3072460 john39
john39's picture

big chunks of the bible are an insult to God.  wtfu.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:51 | 3072169 Goy_Debt_Slave
Goy_Debt_Slave's picture

Since going out this winter looks dangerous.. here is a nice reading list.

Project On Government Oversight

Here it is -- 10 Books That Matter: POGO's Winter Reading List. Have you read any of these? Do you have recommendations of your own?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:50 | 3072176 besnook
besnook's picture

enough of the crazy killers. they are obvious and predictable. let's address the child killer in chief.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:10 | 3072298 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

killing little brown babies abroad doesn't count

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:06 | 3072182 fuu
fuu's picture

We need new gear in the ZH store, stuff that reflects the slide into main stream mediocrity.

Maybe a ZH iPhone case.

Or maybe just change the tag line, "On a long enough timeline every site becomes the MSM."

I am sure that WaPo, Gallup, Business Week, The New Yorker, CNN, and the LA Times appreciate the traffic.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:28 | 3072396 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

ZH needs an app.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:52 | 3072183 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

What's the difference between an assault weapon and your basic gun..??

Seems you could assault anyone with a functioning plain old gun and a few bullets.


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:55 | 3072203 john39
john39's picture

of course, but to the sheople, "assualt weapon ban" sounds logical and reasonable...   because they don't understand the scope of what is being proposed.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:08 | 3072290 DosZap
DosZap's picture


What's the difference between an assault weapon and your basic gun..??

Plenty, the true definition of an assault weapon, is a centerfire rifle of NOT full powered RIFLE amunition(intermediate powered cartridges), and is capable of Semi, and FULLY AUTOMATIC FIRE).

If it does not meet these two criteria, then it is not, never will be an ASSAULT WEAPON.....................

Seems you could assault anyone with a functioning plain old gun and a few bullets.

Yes, correct, you can ASSAULT anyone with your hand, fist,or knife ,fork, posicle stick,etc,etc.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:30 | 3072406 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Are there any fully automatic rifles for sale in the US?  And if so, what make/model?  I thought those were banned.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:30 | 3072895 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

There are thousands and thousands of them, but there have been none added to the NFA register (a prerequisite for private transfer) since the NWO Fascist HW Bushy was running things.

Funny how none of those weapons ever get used in a crime...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:24 | 3072640 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

There is no difference between an assault weapon and any other kind of weapon.  

The term "assault weapon" is a marketing device used by the government to make firearms on a list they created seem scarier and more dangerous than weapons not on the list.

Don't be glamored by terms from the progressive, fascist, "go big or go home" government dickholes.  They are very good, the best, at using words and images to get you to respond emotionally.  

Respond intellectually.  

I know, it's hard to think, but if thinking were easy, it'd be your mom! 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:52 | 3072185 aerofan3
aerofan3's picture

Martin Niemoller, a German WW1 submarine captain, who, after the war, became a pastor and theologian, spoke about the inactivity of the German people following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. He spent 4 years in concentration camps for speaking the truth as he saw it, and narrowly escaped being assassinated by the SS guards.


So lets's look at his words and apply them today in the context of the American administration's 2012 purchase of 450 million rounds of hollow point ammunition:

First they will come for the 'terrorists',
And we will not speak out because we are not terrorists.

Then they will come for for the 'demonstrators',
And we will not speak out because we do not demonstrate.

Then they will come for the 'objectors',
And we will not speak out because we only object silently.

Then they will come for you;
And, it's likely that no one will speak out for you, because the powers that be will arrive in force and pick off the opposition one at a time! As individuals you will be vastly outnumbered! 

If it happens, this is how it will be.


Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:10 | 3072314 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 francis_sawyer is at the DEMONSTRATOR phase [by virtue of speaking out on ZH where the one of the principal problems exists]...


Luckily [for the rest of you ZH-ers] you have people like VAST-DOM [playing the part of the SS] to keep me silent... 

Edit: Vast-Dom also appears to have patented a francis_sawyer seeking AUTO JUNK app for his kewl I-Phone for all you peeps that REALLY want to fit in with the NWO crowd... [Only .99 joobux at the app store ~ go & get one]...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!