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Wal-Mart Stores Sell Out Of Guns

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Yesterday, when we described the unprecedented surge in gun sales in the aftermath of the Newtown massacre, we said that "what is most ironic, is that it is precisely the fear of forced, unilateral rejection, by either or all three branches of government, of the original constitution and its various amendments that has Americans scrambling into gun stores. And thus the closed loop nature of the problem: by threatening to take away America's guns, the government is only exacerbating a problem that is steeped in 200+ years of history and is engrained deep in American psychology." It took about 24 hours to demonstrate just how counterproductive government intervention always is: as of this moment, Bloomberg reports, Wal-Mart, the biggest retailer in the US and the world, has stores in at least five states where guns are now completely out of stock.

With President Barack Obama endorsing sweeping gun restrictions in the wake of the school shootings in Newtown, Connecticut, prices for handgun magazines are surging on EBay (EBAY) and semi-automatic rifles are sold out at many Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) locations.

 

Wal-Mart, the world’s largest retailer, said yesterday that it would continue to sell guns, including rifles like the one used at Newtown, where 26 people, most of them children, were killed on Dec. 14. By contrast, Dick’s Sporting Goods Inc. (DKS) suspended sales of similar guns at its more than 500 stores.

 

Searches of five kinds of semi-automatic rifles on Wal- Mart’s website showed them to be out of stock at stores in five states, including Pennsylvania, Kansas and Alabama. Wal-Mart doesn’t sell guns online, instead asking customers to input a zip code to see if their local store carries a specific weapon.

 

“We remain dedicated to the safe and responsible sale of firearms in areas of the country where they are sold,” David Tovar, a spokesman for Wal-Mart, said yesterday. He didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment on this story.

 

Wal-Mart has about 10 modern sporting rifles, the gun industry’s term for firearms that look like an M-16 military rifle, listed on its website. The retailer removed a description and picture of the Bushmaster AR-15, which was the model used in Newtown, after the shootings.

Who benefits from the government's pseudo intervention? None other than the uber-wealthy Walton family.

The move may have helped as U.S. Wal-Mart stores posted their first gain in same-store sales in more than two years in October 2011. Wal-Mart doesn’t disclose how many guns it sells, though at an analysts’ meeting in October it said gun revenue gained 76 percent in the first half of this fiscal year. The chain advertised a Sig Sauer M400 as one of its Black Friday doorbusters last month, offering the rifle for $50 off at $867.

It gets worse: now that guns are transforming from a commoditized to a niche, collectible product, whose future is unclear due to what the government may or may not do, the supply, demand dynamics have shifted massively in favor of the side that pushes the equilibrium price higher (just so even central-planning economists understand this).

On EBay Inc.'s auction website, shoppers have recently bid up gun magazines. The current bid for four Glock handgun magazines, ammunition for one of the guns used at Newtown, is $118.37 compared with $45 on the day before the shooting. The bid for seven Glock magazines hit $201 on Dec. 17 from $71.01 before the massacre.

 

Gun buyers have flooded other firearms retailers too. The Hyatt Gun Shop in Charlotte, North Carolina, racked up more than $1 million in sales yesterday for the best single-day performance since the store opened in 1959, according to Justin Anderson, director of online sales. At the top of shoppers’ lists was the Bushmaster AR-15, the model of rifle used at Newtown that sells for as much as $4,000 and had almost sold out, he said.

 

Revenue at one of the largest U.S. gun stores surpassed even the spike just after Obama was elected president in 2008, Anderson said in a telephone interview. Sales weren’t as robust when Obama was re-elected last month because the president hadn’t backed major new gun laws, he said.

While we have no interest in pursuing any of the ethical sides of this argument, we do know that the more the government intervenes, even if it is with the noblest intentions, the greater the adverse and negative fallout will be. And, in typical government fashion, the more it pushes to get its way (or the highway) the greater the tragic consequences result in a country which - by dint of simply what it is - has over 300 million weapons. Good luck and godspeed with any hopes of "controlling" them.

 

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Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:58 | 3080372 drink or die
drink or die's picture

So ignorance then...got it.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:00 | 3080383 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

He must be 17 and play a lot of COD...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:10 | 3080421 maxmad
maxmad's picture

or a marine vet that has shot most military grade guns..

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:22 | 3080486 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

they dont jam as much when you take em off full auto once in a while

the m16a4 doesnt jam near as much as the older ones

dont seem to bolt over ride at all

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:50 | 3080580 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

@maxmad:

While I don't mind an AK-47 (or AK-74), and they're definitely reliable, you are definitely exaggerating the "jamming" of the AR (I will admit ARs eat where they shit, so regular & thorough cleaning and running them wet is ideal-- learn to field strip them blindfolded). They have many advantages over AKs, including inherently better accuracy, way better ergonomics, and much better sights. The 5.56x45mm is a better round than the 7.62x39mm, ballistically speaking.

About that "jamming every second round" thing; nuh-uh:

S.W.A.T. MAGAZINE – FILTHY 14

 

@johnqpublic: The M4 and M16A4 (as well as the prior version) went to three round burst or semiautomatic mode, and did away with full automatic fire (as it wastes ammunition and is difficult to direct accurately, even in a relatively small caliber).

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:05 | 3080658 new game
new game's picture

just sold mycolt m4 a3 (sp6920)last week for $1015(b/4 shooting); i am not kidding; had it for over a year and was totally fed up with cleaning it and decided to sell it on armslist.  had to tell you all to do the opposite of whatever i do- un fucking believable :(

anyways, my son has shot the ak47 underwater at my range and it didn't hurt it- another unfucking believable truth.

anyways gun are selling like crazy everywhere - never in my 40 years of gun enthusiam have i seen anything like it.

gun fucking bubble BITCHEEZ

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:51 | 3081390 booboo
booboo's picture

LWRC has the answer to the direct impingment issue.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:25 | 3080732 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hopefully that c*ck Robert McNamara is burning in hell with LBJ.   They rush the M-16 into production and issued them with no cleaning kits.  Loads of kids died trying to clean them.

The AR platform got better but it "ain't" prefect.   There is a guy on Youtube doing a Bushmaster video.  He says he owns quite a few.  He has one that he has done minimal cleaning as a test and says it is fine.  ??? 

AKs are more reliable and are easier to field strip.  AKs are not as accurate and 150 yards out they are not very good.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:31 | 3081333 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Even the M16s that were being used in Army basic training a decade ago were essentially knockoffs that jammed all the time.  That said, the good stuff ARs today offer better value because they're so much more accurate than the AKs.  Today's about precision and accuracy, areas where today's high-quality AR platforms excel.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:58 | 3082755 Freddie
Freddie's picture

There was supposedly a Canadian company that made very good AR 15s. I forget the company's name.  The newish Ruger AR 15 uses a piston driven operating system that is supposedly more reliable.

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr556/index.html

I will say one thing for Rugers - they are as reliable as rain.  The US Govt especially LBJ and McNamara should burn in hell for pushing the unreliable M-16 so rapidly into service.   They should have allowed many to keep the M-14.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:44 | 3081635 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Never mind the laquer build up on the breech of any gun that fires that nail polish steel. Talk about action glue.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:41 | 3080790 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

A second amendment bashing "marine"?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:12 | 3081104 perchprism
perchprism's picture

 

 

You lying cocksucker.  Say what you want, but don't say you're a marine vet.   Cocksucker.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:31 | 3080950 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

An AK is heavy compaired to an AR , but AK's ALWAYS work. you see AR are made for the  average American  shoots and then cleans for about two hours, the AK you just shoot because it does not need to be clean to work . I have both and yes the AR jams , but remember don't use steel case round they jam and dont use laquerd rounds they jam , dont shoot 556 in a 223 , but you can use 223 in a 556 , don't forget your sights they are extra on a AR. Besides all that you can enjoy a full day of shooting befor they jam.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:04 | 3081246 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Newbie Bearing has put +/- 800 rounds through his AK, not even one jam.  A friend of mine (with more experience) had his AR jam-up at the range, he had to have one of the range's employees come over and get the cartridge out.  

Hey, just one anecdotal data point.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:56 | 3080362 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

You obviously haven't shot much...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:40 | 3080563 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

I have personnally fired over 1,200 rounds through an M-4 (AR type weapon) in a single day with no intermitant cleaning and without a single jam.

There is a reason that on the back market in the middle-east AK's go for $300 while AR type weapons sell for $1,200 - $1,500.

The reputation for unreliability stemmed from early combat use in Vietnam. The problem was traced to the propellent in the ammunition, not the weapon.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:28 | 3080741 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The problem was traced to the propellent in the ammunition, not the weapon.

LBJ and McNamara - burn in hell for that.  They should have transitioned slower.  They also should not have had a war who's only real goal was mainly to make LBJ a LOT richer.   All of his businesses and holdings in TX companies.  Evil F. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:48 | 3080806 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Wasn't he also the guy who said, " we'll have those niggers voting democrat for the next 500 years."  , with his "great society"? 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:42 | 3080794 centerline
centerline's picture

Just do a google youtube search on the twinkie test.  Ever seen how many springs and parts go into an AR versus an AK?  I have had very simple (and modern) AR rifles give problems with cheap ammo, bad springs, and just grit.  Push it hard and the gun winds up useless.  In order to really get a solid AR variant that is uber reliable in the same sense as an AK (with the advantages of an AR), you need to spend alot of money.

Vietnam M16's had a load of problems dealing with the environment (need to keep the gun clean as a whistle).

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:30 | 3081150 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

It really was not an environmental problem. It was a propellent problem that caused fouling and gumming that necessitated the constant cleaning.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:25 | 3080730 chump666
chump666's picture

Double feeds jams.  Disgraceful.  A nation obsessed with guns, only well trained individuals should own guns. Well designed weapons, not the fast food style ARs stuff they are churning out.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:12 | 3081095 GCT
GCT's picture

Ahh now max it all depends on what type of AR you buy.  Gas inpingement or gas piston like the AK.

 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 23:59 | 3081555 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

Except for microsoft products...??

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:02 | 3081566 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

mm, only someone who has owned both styles would really understand your comments. and i agree.....don't know why anyone would down<- you for such truthful comments.......the gas Stoner (why anyone would buy a gun designed by a guy with this name behooves me) is overly designed and complicated.....much like the USofA. the AK is simple and straight forward. the KISS principle usually prevails.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:53 | 3080348 Overfed
Overfed's picture

The Colt H-Bar that I used to have (before I sold it for fear of confiscation) never jammed. Any mag, any ammo. Much more effective than my AK (that I also sold on the same day) for putting a large concentration of lead on a target rapidly.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:06 | 3081570 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

i prefer the AKs simlicity, however, in the US, the AR designed weapons have more parts and ammo available. i had both designs, however, i had an unfortunate boating accident where they were both lost....along with a spare upper, misc parts and all my PMs.....it was a very bad day.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:54 | 3080354 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

You obviously haven't shot much.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:26 | 3080508 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

All of my AR platforms performed quite well, before I sold them to this guy "Eric."

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:27 | 3080515 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Say that to the guy with the AK at my last range time who jammed once per mag at least. I use p-mags now.. no FTF's , no FTE's.. nothing but silk baby.. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:37 | 3080556 kill switch
kill switch's picture

AK 47 is a piece of shit compared with the M16 for accuracy, I don't give a fuck about the power if you can't hit anything, just ask Lee Ermy... he will set your shit straight. Watching the AK in slow motion shows the barrel wiggle..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VRrc2n0NXg

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:32 | 3080758 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I saw that video before. Hilarious. 

It is a shame that R. Lee Emry is a prick who voted for our mullah.   Maybe he deserved to get greased by Private Pyle in FMJ.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:03 | 3080861 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

I heard the Gunny specifically slam "dear leader the god king" at some rally.  I don't think he voted for him.  

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:06 | 3082818 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I think he slammed him and then caught hell.  He then came out and said he voted for him.  I was like WTF?!?

I like the guy but if he did vote for him he is scum.

Private Pyle - Vincent D'Ofornio is a big lib so I am sure he did.

"Are you listening to me Pyle?!"

Gunny is pretty hilarious testing the AK versus AR.  The field stripping was embarassing.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 23:48 | 3085506 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

no shit.   That is truly fucked up if it is true.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:38 | 3080557 Jeepers Creepers
Jeepers Creepers's picture

If your AR is jamming you're either shooting crap ammo or you're not keeping it clean.

I have both an AR and AK, the AK has had plenty of problems, you have to get one made in the right country to get a decent one.

If I could only grab one rifle, I'd take the AR over my AK hands down.  FAR more accurate at range. 

Sure an AK is simper, but so is a knife.

 

 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:17 | 3080695 new game
new game's picture

the romance of the black gun lives on...

i've been there and I am back to the basics

s and w revolver

bolt action rifles

and pump shotguns

these fuckers will NEVER, I REPEAT will NEVER LET ME DOWN.

and glock in a pear tree...

nothin against your black guns- had tons of fun shotin 1000's a rds at everything imaginable from a 40 year old junk pile on my property...

all good times do come to an end...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:23 | 3080724 new game
new game's picture

most fun was ar colt carbine sporter in 7.62x39 (had two)-these rocked with the 30 rd'ers; shooting shit hanging from old oaks..

180 rd bursts(six clips) of all out shooting when 1000 rds of wolf could be had for $99; bot it by the 5k increments and went up on friday after work and shot till it was gone-just sayin!!!!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:37 | 3081169 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

Agreed! If you demand absolute reliability with a pistol, go for a revolver. If you need it with a rifle, go for a bolt-action. Even pumps can jam up (feed problems).

The AR is nice because the .223 lacks recoil, so it's easy to keep on target after a shot. You cannot do that with any bolt-action. And if you are in close combat, a bolt action absolutely sucks. You will get killed.

This is the essence of the control debate. Gun controllers (who do not want comprehensive unversal bans) want to decrease the rate of fire. It gives people the opportunity to run away or attack the attacker.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:54 | 3080831 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

I had an AK47, Romanian made.  Jammed every other shot.  Sell your commie crap somewhere else.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:36 | 3080963 praxis
praxis's picture

WASR's suck.  Norinco's Kick Ass.  Quality AK's are from Russian, China, Poland, Finland and Bulgaria.  Even the Egytpian Maadi is excellent.  You got stuck with a WASR.  Have a gander at some of the other's listed and you'll come to respect the power of these weapons.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:33 | 3081269 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

My (Russian-American) Saiga AK has gone through 800 or so rounds (I am a newbie), without even one jam.  "A guy" at a gun show told me to avoid the Romanian and Chinese ones.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:46 | 3081639 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Aresenal FTW, look for the dimpled mag well.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:48 | 3080322 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Yes sir..

You either support and defend the constitution.

Or you do not.

There will be no gun seizure in Texas.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:02 | 3080388 busted by the b...
busted by the bailout's picture

Nor anywhere else; that was just a dream some of you had.

But you will need them more there, after the secession.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:03 | 3080396 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Exactly. This is about RIGHTS, not guns.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:10 | 3081274 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:18 | 3080462 kito
kito's picture

Govt doesn't want your guns......they don't want your gold......THEY WANT YOUR 401K/IRA/RETIREMENT ACCOUNT!!!!!! They need cash!!!!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:21 | 3080482 ATM
ATM's picture

They can print all the cash they wish. No they want to disarm us so we don't get any silly ideas.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:33 | 3080534 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That's one of those things I've heard my entire life. I'm 41. How can it be that this imminent threat never results in any meaningful change?

I'm certainly not buying it, but if folks need to work themselves about up something, this will do as well as any.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:52 | 3080817 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

The normalcy bias is strong with you.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:36 | 3080964 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Naw, it's not that.  I don't think the Feds have the POWER to do anything about the guns we own.  There just aren't enough Feds, and people don't respect them.  Even when the Brady bill ban was in effect, I could've bought a pre-ban weapon or accessory any day of the week.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 23:59 | 3081552 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Thats a tough call. I recently ran across a petition whos signatories pledge not to relinquish their arms. What if, hypothetically, this list is used as an example. Say they cross reference this list with internet posts to find the most devout 'I wont give up my guns' person and have a news crew follow the swat raid live on every network and cable channel. As soon as the person opens the door they are riddled with a 1000 bullets. The next day 'Collection centers' open up and have lines around the block to voluntarily turn in their weapons. Im guessing this tactic would be rather effective with the sheeple and would net 95% of the guns immediately. The rest would be a cake walk to gather.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 15:44 | 3083790 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Well I'm not going to brainstorm tactics to do something they should never consider in the first place, but I think the really compelling evidence is obvious...

Look at how effective they've been at preventing drunk driving. Look at how effectively they've eliminated drugs from the streets. Look at how much "terror" is occurring today vs the period in the early '80s when Reagan first started the "war on terror."

I'm sure there are big success stories. Some specific thing the Feds decided would be a good thing to do and then they went and ACHIEVED it. But I'll be damned if I can think of one.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 23:40 | 3085486 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

True, but the war on drugs and terror are going EXACTLY according to plan so those are poor examples.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:35 | 3080543 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

If they need cash NOW, they should call JG Wentworth...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 07:16 | 3081996 Ain't No Sunshine
Ain&#039;t No Sunshine's picture

877 CASH NOW

 

Bitchez!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:18 | 3080702 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It isn't the government so much as it's the government's owners.

FYI, we are not the government's owners.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:18 | 3080706 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It isn't the government so much as it's the government's owners.

FYI, we are not the government's owners.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:19 | 3080473 Vashta Nerada
Vashta Nerada's picture

Also, guns are a store of value like gold, but with added benefits.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:29 | 3080518 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Right. You can't shoot gold...........

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:56 | 3080617 kito
kito's picture

Sure you can shoot gold..... Even a 9mm bullet will tear a gold eagle to shreds........

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:58 | 3080629 IllusionOfChoice
IllusionOfChoice's picture

You need to watch more Bond movies.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:48 | 3080807 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Guns and gold are filthy relics.  Charlie Munger even said so.  ;-)

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:44 | 3080993 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Very true; got a couple of ARs in 2012. Prudent moves, I guess.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:49 | 3080334 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Went to a couple of our local gun stores over the weekend.  Looked like they were having a "Black Friday" sale.  Places were packed and the registers were ringing.  Thankfully, we still have more gun stores than Starbucks around here.

I bought ten additional standard thirty round magazines for my battle rifles.

The hoplophobics are out in full force this time, think about donating a little ammo to the NRA, Gunowners of America or any other pro-gun group.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:24 | 3080500 JohnG
JohnG's picture

We here are a pro gun group....

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:15 | 3080901 Overfed
Overfed's picture

GOA!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:19 | 3081295 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Update here in PHX...no AR's or AK's available in retail.  The backpage market is almost nonexistent.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:14 | 3080437 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

I'm with this guy:

"He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully." -- Mahatma Gandhi, as quoted in "Gun Control: The Big Picture," http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-12-17/gun-control-big-picture

And as always, the state can kiss my ass.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:24 | 3080493 Bob
Bob's picture

Not just for guys!  It goes for moms, too:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/mother-of-sandy-hook-g...

Everybody needs to get their heads out of their asses with their kids . . . including gun lovers.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:55 | 3080833 Freddie
Freddie's picture

BELFAST Telegraph telling us about people being killed.  Oh the irony. 

Here is just one example:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/12/15864233-state-collusion-i...

The state colluding in killing a lawyer in belfast.  Belfast would be a poster child for why citizenry needed guns to protect themselves against the IRA, Provos and British Army.

Hillary in Belfast.

Hey Hillary is in Belfast today too. What about that gun running in Mexico, Libya, Egypt, Syroia, Yemen?  And the mass murder.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/07/15749806-clinton-condemns-...

 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:42 | 3080788 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture
Life: Some Courage Is Required

Be brave my friends. No one ever said this would be easy. No one ever promised a life free of worry or challenge. We get this one chance to live here and it's up to each of us how we spend our allotted time. In spite of all that has been done to us and what we see and fear that is just over the horizon our fates are still in our hands.

We are neither murderers nor criminals. We are not responsible for anything more than the desire to protect ourselves, the ones we love and indeed society as a whole. To exercise our God given liberties and to pursue Life, Liberty and Happiness as we see fit. There is no need nor place for guilt. We haven't committed evil nor have we embraced it. We have lived our lives as well as we can and ask for no more than the chance to live as free people.

We shed tears when we see evil committed but we also bear the burdens of our knowledge, intelligence, experience and what wisdom each of us carries. That means sometimes we must see reality for what it is and our our countrymen for what they are. We must be courageous enough to recognize the fight and not flinch no matter how afraid we are or how badly we want things to return to the usual and comfortable. Tears are expected and honorable but they must never blind us.

We aren't in love with our tools no matter what some may say. The fear mongers are among us and they will do or say anything to convince us to surrender and that we must never do. There can be no doubt that our very liberties are under attack and the future of our children at stake. To that there can only ever be one answer.

No.

I could not agree more, Thanks Six

Read the rest here

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:06 | 3081573 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

PLUS a bunch +++++++++++++++++

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:55 | 3080836 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

I'm too afraid to own a gun.

I fear my angry wife would blow my brains out.

But what's to stop her from pushing me out the window?

I see both points of view.

http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2012/12/yesterday-dragon-lady-served-beef-and.html

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:34 | 3081163 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

I fear my angry wife would blow my brains out.

Sounds to me like you have too much life insurance. You need to make sure you are worth more alive than dead, and make sure your wife knows!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:13 | 3081281 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If she knows Tae Kwon Do, she needs no gun...

;)

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:02 | 3080857 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

What the evil Psycopaths have planned for slaves in the near future.  Coming soon to a town or city near you.

Prototype Quadrotor with Machine Gun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SNPJMk2fgJU

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 23:18 | 3081455 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

If the Second Amendment can be ignored so can the 16th.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:40 | 3082168 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

"As we say in Texas, come and take it!"

 

Oh they will...

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/humiliating-cavity-search-traffic-...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:40 | 3080283 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Vote of NO CONFIDENCE.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:41 | 3080287 Frastric
Frastric's picture

Need... Moar... Weaponry!

Cos there's crazy people out there y'know....

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:44 | 3080299 PGR88
PGR88's picture

Watching the unctuous Chuck Schumer crawl out of the woodwork when any PR opportunity presents itself to advance himself and his statist ideas, and I know who the "crazy" people are.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:30 | 3080436 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Speaking of stats, did anyone see this? That ought to shut up the ignorant UK bitches that want to bullshit us about the benefits of gun free living......

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Euro...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:38 | 3080551 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

DM is a shit rag but it's great seeing them trash the NHS and their gov't as it's great for throwing back at my Lefty relatives swooning after O'Care and gun control. Although their fawning over Obama can be a bit much.   And not to mention they have all the beach pics of hot women going for them.

On a side note, a cousin in CA was pestering me about how to get her hubby's gun shipped out there from the East Coast...hmmm.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:07 | 3080668 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Yeah, I almost put a disclaimer in there. Nonetheless, the facts are the facts wherever they lay........

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:32 | 3081334 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Suck it Piers!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:17 | 3080452 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Obamaphone!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:43 | 3080293 busted by the b...
busted by the bailout's picture

Which sold out fastest, AR-15s or Twinkies?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:49 | 3080327 cossack55
cossack55's picture

One can put Twinkies on their EBT card.  Ammo is a close second.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:58 | 3080377 chunga
chunga's picture

You can put Twinkies in your AK and they still work fine.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:05 | 3080406 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Twinkies in Alaska just bring in the hungry polar bears (hehe).

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:43 | 3080296 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

this is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:22 | 3080491 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Everybody hates me, Joker. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:43 | 3080297 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

When the COMEX defaults coin shops will sell out of gold/silver and platinum even faster. Funny how human psychology works. If it's expensive and you can't get it then everyone wants it. If it's affordable and available people don't care. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:45 | 3080302 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

+1

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:04 | 3080399 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Did you see the availablity of silver on APMEX a couple of days ago when paper silver took a 4% hit? Sold out of most US silver coin rolls.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:39 | 3080555 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

If it's affordable and available people don't care.  

Just like if Wal-Mart runs out of food, then things get real interesting real fast. 

 

Item 6

Purchase the items on the following shopping list to outfit your home.

· 5,000 rounds ammo for training; $2,500.

· Purchase and install Door Jamb Armor and dead bolts on all your exterior doors; $1,000 for 4 doors.

· A bullet proof vest; $500.

· Install a professional alarm system, or better if you live in the country get a big dog and have you both protection trained; $50/month.

· 12 months of food storage (2,400 cal/day) with > 20 year shelf life ;$4,500.

· If you have well water get a SimplePump. If you rely on city/municipal water, and there is not a swimming pool in your backyard, then get at least one waterbed; $1,000.

· A hand-crank emergency radio and a couple of hand-crank flashlights; $50.

· Purchase and store several cases of liquor; $500.

· If it gets cold where you live, then purchase

o A mummy style sleeping bag like a Wiggies; $250.

o At least one set of heavy wool pants and wool parka, such as Columbia's Gallatin Range ; $350.

o A pair of warm boots, wool socks, warm gloves, and a wool hat; $350.

o Two sets of Patagonia long underwear; $120.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-19-10/fear-we-are-returning-time-history-where-it-common-occurrence-fight-ones-life

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:38 | 3080781 flattrader
flattrader's picture

$1,000+ for a cold weather rated sleeping bag and wool clothes?  Ridiculous.

Good quaility bag can be had from REI and you get a divvie as a co-op member.

All wool clothes can be had from thrift stores at a fraction of the cost.  High quality too.

Might want new boots, but not necessary.  Got me a pair of Sorel's used for under $20.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:01 | 3080854 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+10 million

Crank up radio?  For propaganda?  I would included those small CB radios too.

One thing that is real important like you said is water to drink and for your toilet.

If the power grid goes down and there is no water and sewers.  Good luck with that.  Cholera or worse.   People start dying off because they are diabetics, fat or old.  It exponentially gets worse.

This Patriot Nurse lady on YouTube is awesome.

Who Will Die First when SHTF: A WARNING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J42CLa5iATM

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:29 | 3082132 flattrader
flattrader's picture

If the power grid goes down in a Carrington Event which will also fry electronic circuity, we're all dead and the entire continent is contaminated in a matter of days or weeks.  Idiots in Congress have made no provisions to make certain Nuke Power Plants can shut down and cool their reactors and spent fuel pools.  It takes years.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/7301-400-chernobyls-solar-flares-electrom...

Patirot Nurse will be awsomely dead too.

Oh, and we're about due for another Carrington-style Event.

 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:47 | 3080591 kill switch
kill switch's picture

That's been the model in retail for years,,,,High price desire....I'm the first in the city with this expensive #$%^%^*^&@ thing

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:42 | 3081184 Sockeye
Sockeye's picture

Hey! Who junked TD?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 23:29 | 3081479 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Surely the Zero did it.  Troll.  Suspend his account!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:46 | 3080311 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

I hope to see that day. Everyone here on ZH has plenty of PM's right? Just checkin'...

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:49 | 3080330 fuu
fuu's picture

Nope, but I do have lots of SCUBA gear.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:47 | 3080314 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

supply and demand - demand and supply

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:08 | 3080415 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

My mechanic / gun dealer ordered 150 AR-15s in early '09.  Almost all were paid for before they arrived.  He wanted people to have them because he saw Obama as a clear and present danger...  $900.   In an Army town people know the oath is to the Constitution, not to the dictator in DC.  This is what scares Obama. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:32 | 3081336 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Oathkeepers.

Not all those in uniform are jackboots.  Some will refuse to turn against us if the SHTF.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:16 | 3081598 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

most, especially career officers, already have contingency plans for turning over 'arms' to states in case of an emergency. they know their true duty and this is the reason Amerika is still holding together.

if this sentiment ever changed......dum, dum, dummm.....

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:35 | 3080544 Bob
Bob's picture

Tulips were a good example of that once.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:44 | 3080298 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The politicians in DC should go find another country to run into the dirt and get the hell out of the US.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:47 | 3080319 Critical Path
Critical Path's picture

The dirt isn't enough, they're going for the bed rock

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:45 | 3080300 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-FVQgLkbLjQ

Why Piers Morgan the Limey bastard sucks.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:43 | 3080576 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

He was no different in school.

I know,I was there.

Once an arsehole, always one.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 01:16 | 3081699 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

I doubt that any 'good' that can come of out of such a terrible incident but I am hoping that at least we can have the complete removal of Piers Morgan from our TV screens. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:45 | 3080303 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

gun lovers are truly unique - oh and stupid as a sack of nails

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:49 | 3080325 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

If you don't think you have the right to defend yourself why don't you just roll over and die already. It would do us all a favor.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:53 | 3080351 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Please do tell us what you are soooo afraid of then - just wondering why all the fear all the time - people are so fucking predictable - continue watching the propoganda on tv and live your life in a constant state of fear my friend cause god knows the boogie man is everywhere - BOO - oops don't shoot your foot.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:59 | 3080378 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Well I did experience an attempted break in today. But as much as that got my adrenaline pumping, I'm most afraid of nut-jobs like you. That is, people who try to deny our ability to defend ourselves. Why do I need an "assault" rifle? To defend against lunatics like you trying to take my handgun with your government thugs.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:05 | 3080653 object_orient
object_orient's picture

The reason you have guns, is to protect yourself from people taking your guns? Are you dizzy from running in circles?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:30 | 3080942 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

The Founding Fathers (and others) spoke very clearly about what they intended:

   "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
       -- Thomas Jefferson

   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
       -- Benjamin Franklin

   "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."
       -- Thomas Jefferson

   "Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater."
       -- Peter Venetoklis

   "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
       -- John F. Kennedy

   “What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.”
       -- Thomas Jefferson

   "To disarm the people...was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
       -- George Mason

   ”Let us hope our weapons are never needed -- but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
       -- Edward Abbey

   "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
       -- George Washington

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
       -- Thomas Jefferson, 1764

    
    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
       -- Thomas Jefferson

    
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn’t."
       -- Ben Franklin

    "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
       -–Thomas Paine

    
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
       -– George Washington

    
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
       -- Patrick Henry

    
    "Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
       -- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

    
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."
       -– Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

    
    "The right of the people to keep and bear…arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country…"
       -– James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

    
    "(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
       -- James Madison

    
    "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government…"
       -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28) .

    
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
       -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

    
    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
       -- George Mason

    
    "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."
       -- Noah Webster, “An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (1787) in Pamplets on the Constitution of the United States (P.Ford, 1888)

    
    "[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
       -- Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:38 | 3080967 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

for fuck sake the founding fathers have been dead for over 200 years and frankly they were a little out of their league

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 21:25 | 3081139 GCT
GCT's picture

Dam Zero I was thinking the same thing about you!

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:29 | 3081327 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Define "league", troll, and then we can start debating.

By the way, if you're going to look for attention the easy way by pretending to be a troll, understand that there's an art to it.  MDB and RobotTrader are good examples of commenters who go against the grain of most of the ZH'ers here, but do so in a tete-a-tete fashion.  A conversational dance, if you will, with their conservative opponents.  They've somewhat become accepted into the club - trolls as they are - but for their entertainment value.

You?  You're trying to hard to poke people in the eye.  It'll work in the short term, but eventually people will tire of it and simply pass over your future comments.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:08 | 3081581 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

poke - you keep coming back

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:10 | 3081588 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

poke

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 22:54 | 3081388 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

You have the general idea.

And you have muscles to keep animals and/or other people from taking your muscles [eating you].

Anymore questions great philosopher?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:02 | 3080390 Overfed
Overfed's picture

During the 20th century, more people died at the hands of their governments than in all of the wars of history combined.

 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:30 | 3080520 ATM
ATM's picture

And that is the answer. We arm ourselves because we wish to be free from tyranny and have the ability to make it so.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:10 | 3080414 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

You sound like the kind of person I'd love to run into if and when the SHTF.

 

If you aren't American, then shut up and go pay your taxes and live off your government. 

 

If you are American, then please forfeit your 1st amendment right before you go telling people to forfeit their 2nd amendment rights.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:22 | 3080484 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Is that you, Piers?

Go suck one.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:22 | 3080488 Aloha
Aloha's picture

Bull crap. Notice who's pushing the fear-porn "propaganda on tv". Who couldn't wait 10 F'in minutes to start the lefty 'take the guns away from American's because they're all going to shoot little children' mantra?  ABC, NBC, CBS and all the cable ho's jumped on it before the little ones were even cold. The only discussion of gun confiscation is coming from the lefty's, fearing they might miss to seize the moment and once again add more restrictions to American's lives. It's like clockwork, happens evertime some nut goes on a rampage. If it was done out of compassion it might be different but we all damn well know better. You're the chicken shits.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:26 | 3080504 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

your chewin' tawbacky is drippin

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:35 | 3080540 Aloha
Aloha's picture

And your manhood is non-existant.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:35 | 3080533 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Yeah really. Before they got all the bodies counted the gun control loons in the legacy media were out pushing their agenda. At least Obama had the courtesy to shed fake tears. Most of those morons didn't bother.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:53 | 3080607 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

And to claim the children as his own, like any good sociopath would do.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:53 | 3080604 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

This is true of ALL political special interest groups, regardless of side.

Never let a crisis go to waste. (I learned this lesson back in the day, when the gays suddenly considered orange juice to be an abomination.)

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:36 | 3080770 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Maybe I'm fearful of some maniac kid with mental disabilities on psychotropic drugs killing my kids with stolen firearms.... Naw, you're right, that would never happen.

You sir, are full of epic douchery.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 00:40 | 3081628 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Your kids have a much better chance of being killed driving to school.  Your phobia clouds your reasoning.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 20:43 | 3080990 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

You are right. People have nothing to fear. The government is an all loving and all knowing entity that the people should unquestionably trust. Citizens of NAZI Germany gave up their rights and their guns in the 1930's and everything was great, The wonderful leader Adolf Hitler graciously took away guns so the people could depend on him for safety. This was a wonderful time for the people of Germany. 

Joseph Stalin once said "We don't let them have ideas. Why would we let them have guns." Government is our savior, our protector, our friend. 

/obvious sarc/

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 23:26 | 3081470 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Most anti-gun people picture gun people practicing attack formations. In over 50 years of shooting I have only heard guys discuss defence...how to protect the family, home and land.

The Feds will likely 'settle ' for a cosmetic 'fix' but in my book an inch as good as a mile. 

I called Harry reid to ask if we could count on the Second Amendment support he promised when he was sucking up to us in 2010. His staff in DC first put me on eternal hold, then took my message...but not my name...Harry will fold like the wet cardboard box he is. 

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:50 | 3080332 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Shoot at targets or become one. The stupid ones will be looking into the wrong end of a scope.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:55 | 3080358 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

We've got a code blue in isle 4 - redneck alert

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:00 | 3080384 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

You really are shit-for-brains.

"Squeeze 'em if ya' got them"

Wrong story, damn, I thought this was about breasts. 

Honest mistake when talking to a pussy.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 18:05 | 3080401 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Got a code pink in aisle 6 - fag alert

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 19:00 | 3080633 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

I guess that makes me a blackneck?

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 17:57 | 3080368 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey buddy....

You spelled your name bacwards...kinda.

I mean ya gotta switch up te hero, and the Zero.

 

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