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Gold And Silver "Paulson'd" Again?

Tyler Durden's picture


Another day, another precious metals' dumpfest. Many have argued that this could not be a sophisticated hedge fund as they would surely 'trade' their position down, as opposed to hit the street with it all at once? Well, it appears whoever keeps doing this 'dumping' does not have the greatest price-sensitivity...


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Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:53 | 3082219 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

All we can do is stand by and watch. (and stack phys)

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:56 | 3082241 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



No metal was actually harmed in the paper pump job.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:02 | 3082279 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i have noticed over the last couple years pricing on ebay lags paper pricing, with that being said eagles are still bringing 39 + same with 1 oz bars...with lots of bids...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082298 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



They should totally outlaw premiums.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:11 | 3082329 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

BEWARE E-BAY unless you have dealt with the dealer and know they are legit.


I've had a few bad silver eagles off E-Bay and that's all it takes. Alot of sellers are not frauds on purpose, they are uneduated and will generally take it back. The sellers with NO RETURNS are the ones you DON'T want to buy from.


Stay away from E-Bay unless you know the seller!! 



Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:15 | 3082359 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Would you mind defining "bad silver eagle" for a neophyte?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:21 | 3082386 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

One that looks legit but upon closer inspection is not produced by the US Mint.

The first one leapt out becasue of the weight, the second because the rays of sunshine weren't right and the LIBERTY lettering was close, but not right either.


In both cases I was able to return and the sellers were not a dealer in either case. I didn't report to E-Bay becasue the sellers took them back, and they were both selling misc. stuff, not lots of coins, so I didn't think they were trying to defraud, just people not knowing what they were doing.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:24 | 3082399 slyhill
slyhill's picture

So you bought two fake ASEs on ebay? How many total ASEs have you purchased on ebay?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:31 | 3082423 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

At the time, I had purchased maybe 10-15 total.

I was listing the open auctions by time ending, to bid on auctions that were about to end so that I could have a better chance of getting the item without lots of bidding. I wasn't paying much attention to the seller's other auctions (I did look at their rating, but unless it's a dealer with lots of completed auctions, ratings don't mean much).

In any event, I stopped on E-Bay after the second and moved onto legit dealers such as Gainsville Coins, APMEX and others.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:44 | 3082463 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

You might know that APMEX has an EBay 'storefront'.They have a nice selection of coins and bars,

and a reasonable shipping charge -  ($4.95 first item, $1.50 each after, in same order).

I too use EBay to monitor prices vs the 'market'.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:30 | 3082612 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Everyone's dumping gold to load up on AR-15s.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:44 | 3082464 trav777
trav777's picture

silverbug lemming and his money are soon parted

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:50 | 3082481 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Don't move.....or the Sheriff gets it.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:56 | 3082506 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

"trav777: silverbug lemming and his money are soon parted" 

Dumb and ass will never be parted in your case, eternal loser.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:56 | 3082507 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LMFAO!!  Wake me when it's back down around $8 an ounce.  That's where my dollar cost average is.  Until then I will sleep fine.  And after that, I will still actually have plenty of physical purchasing power.  The monkey hammering is a prerequisite for the printing.  Who you gonna believe Trav? The MSM pushing paper promises that everything is okay or your own lying eyes?  You crack me up.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:16 | 3082564 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Its all good!

Rock, scissors... PAPER WINS!

Dollar down. Euro up. NYSE now sold to ICE to be known as NICE?

As in "naughty or nice"? Yup. Its all good now.

Sell your physical gold and silver - buy govt bonds - buy APPL - just buy paper...

Sarcasm - the ability to insult idiots without them realizing it!  

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:26 | 3082600 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I suppose Tulving being SOLD OUT on 10 of their 23 gold items means nothing either? And five of their silver products are SOLD OUT and four others are delayed for several weeks to deliver.

Watch supplies disappear quickly from the LCS's and bigger retailers as the prices are pushed down. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:12 | 3082550 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Says the long platinum short gold guy.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:49 | 3082714 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i think what maybe going on with the smash downs are some bigger players started to enter the building betting on black ,if the cb's allow this, others would certainly enter, than control is lost.......... so  they will  make sure these deep pocket players "end of years" land on red...also making damn sure they and their friends  understand that a bottomless pit beats deep pockets .....

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:39 | 3082985 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

"Gold And Silver "Paulson'd" Again?"

More like Gold And Silver "JPMorgan'd" Again!


Jesse:  Gold and Silver Smackdown: Same Time Last Year 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:53 | 3082491 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture


Fake Silver Eagle made in China! How to identify...


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:18 | 3082371 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

This smells like Bulshit to me.  "Bad Silver Eagles".  Well ya don't buy from the person with a (0) rating. Thanks Sherlock ! 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:22 | 3082389 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

You're welcome. I was a noob 2 years ago and got burned twice. That's why I'm trying to help others avoid E-Bay if they don't know the seller.



Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:31 | 3082416 USS Bernanke
USS Bernanke's picture

Fed announces 40$ billion extra a month in Exotic Monetary Policy known as Quantative Easing.

Silver & Gold go down for 7 consecutive days after.



Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:53 | 3083074 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture


though really

""" Fed announces 40$ billion ( X 20 ) extra a month in Exotic Monetary Policy """

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:32 | 3082422 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

First off their are much cheaper places to buy with less premium then ebay.  But if you trust eBay they have these rating systems.  Buy from someone who is reputable seller which a rating over 100 with a 100% positive success ratio.  Don't buy from someone who has under 20 rating.  

It's not rocket sciene.  But I would rather buy from Kitco or Apmex, Or Gainsville Coins etc.  much better premiums.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:34 | 3082431 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

If you didn't catch the NOOB part, I started on E-Bay becasue I didn't know any better.


As I state above, APMEX & Gainsville for all my buys the last 2 years.


Thanks for helping NOOBS avoid my mistake.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:34 | 3082433 edb5s
edb5s's picture

I prefer Provident Metals to APMEX.  Much better website and prices are usually better.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:41 | 3082678 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Your local coin shop!!! See it feel it smell it buy it!!

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:56 | 3082752 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Don't discount the advantage of supporting a local small business, and the conversation that can be had! Sure the premium is a bit higher than online dealers, but my coin guy will let me know the supply and demand changes he's seeing. Whether he's getting a lot of pre-64 silver moving, or bullion. Are the major suppliers flush or tight? Helps me understand the ground level market better than any online price quote! In about three monthly DCA trips you too can become a regular as long as you're willing to pay in cash and listen at least as much as you talk.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:32 | 3082953 Jeepers Creepers
Jeepers Creepers's picture

I actually bought an older "fake" American Gold Eagle that was actually made out of solid gold.  I brought it in to a coin dealer I trust, and he said there were a lot of fakes made when gold was especially cheap.


It seemed really odd to make a counterfeit coin out of real gold, but they're out there.


The pawn shop I bought it from took it back with a full refund, it was still worth an ounce of gold, I just wasn't sure of the exact purity so i didn't want to risk it.


My advice is buy from a real local coin dealer that's established.  Most aren't going to throw away their reputation and livelihood trying to move fake coins.  My experience with Ebay is the premiums are usually too high because of all the fees involved.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 18:02 | 3084220 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

GetZeeGold: ''They should totally outlaw premiums."


Until you want to sell, eh? Horrid logic. You should be a banker.

In fact, why don't you take your logic to its final conclusion. Let's ban profits and tax every company and person at 100%, until of course it is time when you might benefit from such a premium. By the way, that premium is called profit - A nasty capitalistic idea.

This is a perfect example of someone abandoning free market principles because one is tied, married to a specific investment. No principle - no values - just like our politicians. Yea, I know I might get some PM bugs that will dispute my post. But then I would say, "why on earth are you investing in PM's unless you hope to profit (with premiums)?"

And by the way, I remind you that I do hold some PM's as a small portion of my portfolio for emergencies. I actually like premiums and profit. That is the reason I bought them for potential profit and safety.

Fri, 12/21/2012 - 10:02 | 3086390 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Interesting. Two down arrows but they are too cowardly to post. What's the matter? Can't you make a logical argument to debate my comment?

Come on you whimps, I am am calling you out. If you have an opposing position, STATE IT, instead of being a COWARD.


Quite frankly, I am sick of people that desire our politicians be moral and make ethical decisions but then then those people are THEMSELVES UNMORAL AND UNETHICAL. GetZeeGold illustrates that. We have the unethical, unprincipled government because the voters themselves are such. In other words, the failing government is only a reflection of the failing voters and its culture. And the best evidence I have given to ZH is when I present a logical argument and no one presents a logical argument to refute it. And at the displeasure of others, I will continue to do that.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:15 | 3082355 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah, I don't understand people on eBay anymore.  I know there's always going to be premiums, shipping, handling, fees, etc.. but bidding up common date junk silver coins and bars 25% over spot?  Name me one place in the world where it is that expensive for APMEX or others to ship to?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:32 | 3082374 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Those ebay prices are like weekly option plays where niggas got caught over bidding when suddenly spot prices fall..   you can't really lower your offer once your the high bidder... you have to eat it... but any way looks like GLD wants 135ish.. not to say that phyz has to get there.. not sure but all in a longer term bull market.  Those of you that are over levered or can't see past the next week good luck...


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:35 | 3082437 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

If you use Bid Robot you can put your high bid on and if you change your mind you can take it off or reduce it and nobody ever knows. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:47 | 3082471 Pareto
Pareto's picture

$25 - $35 silver; $1500 - $1700 gold; who cares.  its like FB fluctuating between $24 and $29, or, WTIC between $85 and $100.  those that can buy more , will.  its an opportunity for many, but, should not be a surprise to most.  its a currency hedge for me.  and if the price of either goes to zero, well then its a world you really don't want to be around in anyhow.  By the way, i think Ebay, rather than spot is what you want to watch.  cheers 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:20 | 3082382 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

The common folk trusts Ebay.  They don't know how to find a reputable bullion seller so they buy where they know and trust.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 18:03 | 3084261 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Why are you or anyone else complaining about premiums on Ebay? WHO CARES. No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy PMs on Ebay.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082283 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Rationalize it all you want,  the price is still down.  This will continue 'til perpetuity until the miners grow a set of balls and refuse to sell at these paper bullied prices.   Shareholders need to throttle the necks of management at the miners and demand they sell only what they need to cover costs and stockpile the rest, refusing to sell less than '00s above these manipulated spot prices.  

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:06 | 3082302 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



 Rationalize it all you want


To the tune of about 20 trillion.....and counting.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:15 | 3082354 malikai
malikai's picture

Some people might consider such "hoarding" "unfair" and respond inappropriately.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:28 | 3082408 caconhma
caconhma's picture


You are 100% right. These blatant gold price manipulations could not take place without gold-mining companies full and actively participation. They are playing this game and deliberately destroying regular shareholders values and their investments.

These gold-mining companies will end up by their assets being nationalized in many socialist-controlled countries.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:34 | 3082432 chdwlch1
chdwlch1's picture

Have you considered that the owners of the mining firms are also the owners of the banks and the exchanges?  I don't think that's the case with the juniors, but Rio Tinto, I believe, is controlled by the Rothschilds....

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:19 | 3082573 viahj
viahj's picture

so that's who fucked over David99, the wonder he went into repetitve posting the other day. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:43 | 3082458 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Oh, right, I get it, it's OK if the miners manipulate the market by withholding supplies. But it's not OK if the CBs manipulate the market by selling to force the price down. Right, I get it. We're not talking any sort of morality here, just naked self-interest.

BTW all prices fluctuate for all commodities all the time. Don't like it? Stop participating. Anyway, I agree with the other comments, I call this end of year tape painting.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:00 | 3082524 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Tape painting? That's what you call this? Seriously? 

Naked self interest? LOL. What happens when the mines go down (bankrupt) and there are massive shortages?

You know the cost for silver producers is close to $30 an ounce now? Gold is around $1200-1300.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 16:32 | 3084007 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Bay of Pigs - I have read your posts for nearly 5 years, first on Mish, then here. I rate you as a genuine honest commenter. So I am actually on your side. Perhaps "tape painting" is the wrong way to express my thoughts. What I mean is that I think the POG is being suppressed with the objective that the price of gold is either down or unch over the calendar year 2012. I don't agree with it, but that is what I think is happening. I hate hypocrosy and the poster I was criticising seemed to be advocating manipulation of the POG (upwards) by the miners. I do not think that manipulation upwards is moral, and manipulation downwards is immoral. I vote for free markets and true price discovery. To answer your questipon, if the mines go down (bankrupt) because the POG has been manipulated downwards then  the POG will tend to rise, unless it is suppressed by the CBs. But that answer doesn't invalidate my hypothesis. I think the tape is being painted. I think the POG is being artificially suppressed. I think that is a bad thing, not because I think the POG should be higher or lower than it actually is, but because I hate manipulation of supposedly free markets. I hate this because I believe in the dicta of Adam Smith. I think that the proper function of a marketplace is price discovery, so that correct signals are sent to producers and consumers. What I absolutely hate and detest about the world I am living in is that marketplaces are no longer capable of fulfilling their proper function and the reason for this is that they are being manipulated. We will all suffer from the consequences. In a way, this is Tyler's original thesis, and it is right. My post referred to the hypocrisy of favouring manipulation in one direction (POG manipulated upwards) in response to the evident manipulation downwards. What I say is that all manipulation is wrong. It's immoral and it destroys the proper function of marketplaces.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:17 | 3082556 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

For me, the situation looks quite transparent and logical and it has a lot to do with psychological perception of PMs. The Fed et al have noticed the longer-term increasing interest in the metals supported by 11 years of profitability in a row. Gold and silver are gradually gaining back their almost lost status of sound money/safe haven among bigger number of investors and even ordinary people. Since the inflation prospects remain unchanged and, in fact, are boosted it is necessary to smash the sentiment towards the metals and beat down the growing monetary status perception as much as possible. This will certainly scare many investors to such an extent they'll be not able to reasonably comprise positive fundamentals into their analyses, at least for a while. I find it logical; if the Fed did nothing the popularity of PMs would frighteningly continue growing among even more people and, by constant delivery of (pro gold & silver) positive fundamentals, the prices would soon soar to the Moon. However, once smashed, it gives the Fed additional room for its lousy policy for certain period until the PMs recover again. I see it a pure psychological gimmick.

However, in my opinion, the Fed is walking on a very thin ice. Once investors don't get tricked by this cabaret, the effect may be gone sooner than expected.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:15 | 3082865 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 for the sensible, unemotional comment

meanwhile the other national banks are either on board with the FED, stay on the sidelines or are just taking those prices as a wonderful opportunity to stack some dozen tons more

it's a currency war, gentlefolk, choose your sides

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 16:40 | 3084025 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Bill Cara thinks the CBs will announce co-ordinated QE after Christmas. I think all the CBs are backstopping each other at the moment, all rivalries forgotten in the common endeavour to survive. It's that bad and that dangerous now. Survival is the name of the game. So I don't think it's a currency war between different currencies (except perhaps the Yen v. the world); I think it's a currency war between paper and the PMs. Perhaps that is what Ghordius is saying. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 13:12 | 3082339 caconhma
caconhma's picture

The same time and the same memo. It appears that central Banksters are shaking the tree (or weak hands).

All these discussions about recovery and PUBLIC banking bailouts are BS since the goal is quite different: the goal is to destroy the middle class in the USA and EU and to consolidate the banksters’ mafia power.

If banks bailouts were the issue, FED and ECB could do it back in 2008 or 2009 just printing all necessary money then but they did not do it. No this was not an issue. The issue was to get public money, destroy the middle class, and to grab a totalitarian power.

Who are today these super rich? These super-rich are the Banking Mafia and their agents. The "poor" and criminal mob are the other beneficiaries of the FED and ECB. This is a typical Class War imposed 100 years ago by the World Banking Mafia and their Bolsheviks emissaries in Russia. Now, it is the America and EU turn.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:54 | 3082222 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

BTFD, a.k.a. CTFK (Catch That Falling Knife)?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:44 | 3082460 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Lemme guess - you want us to invest in "solid" picks like APPL, FB, GM..


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:54 | 3082225 superbroker1
superbroker1's picture

buy silver?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:01 | 3082270 tetsujin
tetsujin's picture

not yet

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:09 | 3082315 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

The best time would be when the GSR > 57 but it is a good time to start dollar cost averaging cause we are now below the 200 DMA.
Gold is good too for the same reason.

These are good prices Bros.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:19 | 3082373 tetsujin
tetsujin's picture

You're on it. I'm buying everymonth regardless of price but under 200DMA is sweet action. looks like it could go furher if we get a good close under 50 WMA

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:21 | 3082388 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

Sweet it is.

Happy stacking everyone.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:49 | 3082477 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Still shiny.  +1

Trade only if you enjoy being the odd man out watching Paulson and Soros play Pong.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:01 | 3082227 tallen
tallen's picture

Only have to read the comments now to realise we're near the bottom. All the investors who thought silver/gold would make them rich/millionaires are getting really mad, shouting about manipulation. Capitulation, they're thinking if I'd invested in the ES i'd be up x%. Time to back up the truck! I'm thinking we bottom just below 1650. I wouldn't be surprised if Paulson is trading off this information by selling heaps of gold futures. Look at paulson's Net worth on wiki, if he put 10% of that to work selling gold futures he could account for 1/2 this week's trading volume in gold futures.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:06 | 3082307 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

Once Speaker Boehner 'folds like a lawn chair' for the prez, these good deals on phys PM are gone.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:40 | 3082451 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Nah, you have not seen anything yet. Watch the market take a couple thousand point dives and then tell me what the POG is

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:46 | 3083026 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Indeed.  Alcoa earnings 1/8/13 will be the start of a pretty epic crush (or continuation).  Bad stock market + continued, unsterilized easing = healthy conditions for gold priced in USD.  

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:08 | 3082544 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

In other news, Paulson got as rich as he is by his savvy form of investing - an example of which is exiting massive positions in under 5 minutes.


LMAO. Either way, back up alarm engaged.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:00 | 3082767 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

The bottom won't be in until the CME hikes PM margins "to protect investors" ;o)

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:55 | 3082230 aleph0
aleph0's picture

All we can do is stand Buy and laugh. (and stack phys)
Better ?!

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:55 | 3082231 AndrewJackson
AndrewJackson's picture

Bring it on. Every gold/silver sell is a godsend to pm bugs.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:55 | 3082233 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

It's the fucking corrupt Federal Reserve and Treasury (goobermint) ... Just fucking SAY IT!!!!!

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:55 | 3082234 unununium
unununium's picture

Every atom of gold and silver, and every other element heavier than iron, came from a supernova somewhere in our galaxy.

Apropos of nothing.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:56 | 3082237 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

The Queen strikes again!~

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:11 | 3082247 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



She had to act......Gordon Brown is retired. She has the job for however long she lives.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:55 | 3082238 Pharming
Pharming's picture

How much money does it take to cause a drop like that?


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:58 | 3082255 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



It's more in terms of numbers of printers.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:11 | 3082328 gdogus erectus
gdogus erectus's picture

Exactly. When you are a PD and are directed to manipulate, you have access to unlimited fiat. Just a digital entry away.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:18 | 3082367 Pharming
Pharming's picture

So with drops like that...are we talking $200,000,000 pesos or....sorry....dollars?....Almost same thing.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:59 | 3082240 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Criminal manipulation is the norm in US free markets.

Welcome to the usual morning drone strike on silver and gold.  

There is no longer any pretense of fair markets in the US - our corruption is complete.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:13 | 3082337 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



If there's a couple more drops of blood in that turnip.....they'll find it.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:57 | 3082246 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Repeat of last years December pm dumpfest

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:57 | 3082248 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Wonderful timing!

For me ;-)

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082293 BandGap
BandGap's picture

No shit, fourth time I'll be buying in the past two months....

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:57 | 3082249 agent default
agent default's picture

No this is price suppression.  Go do that to the S&P 500 and the FBI will raid you the same day.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:57 | 3082251 Itch
Itch's picture

Excellent timing Tyler, as usual (muttley snigger).

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:56 | 3082344 agent default
agent default's picture

I detect a hint of sarcasm from Tyler on this subject lately.  Which makes me suspect that he is  on to something big on this issue and he is about to expose it. I wonder what Nanex will have to say about this week in the PM markets.  Then again I could be wrong.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:41 | 3082997's picture

+1 for Muttley. And may I add, "I't's the woolf! It's the woolf!"

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 17:47 | 3084207 smiler03
smiler03's picture


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:58 | 3082252 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Why don’t these clowns sell gold and silver down $0 ?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:01 | 3082267 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I know what you mean.....even I'd go for that. No way China will let that happen though.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:13 | 3082558 Acet
Acet's picture

Are you kidding!?

China is probably the biggest winner of all in this: they're getting their physical Gold far cheaper than they would without this suppression. In fact, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they were the ones pushing the price down in the paper markets:

- With the amount of leverage allowed in the paper markets and with the vast majority of contracts settled in cash rather than through delivery, the paper gold markets are the proverbial tail that wags the dog and if you're out to get some cheap physical and have a bit of capital, you can short-sell a lot of paper gold with leverage and buy the physical from the suckers that sell physical at these artificially lowered paper prices.

- Even better, such an action would ultimatelly decouple the paper market from the physical market, which would mean the collapse of existing, US-based paper PM markets, just at a time when China is starting their own.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:18 | 3082570 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Hold on.....tell us more.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:00 | 3082776 Haole
Haole's picture

China is participating in the manipulation and taking delivery of metal.

It seems there is some kind of arrangement between the East and West in this great transfer of wealth.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:21 | 3082891 WarPony
WarPony's picture

after BIS talks, planned implosion ahead.  World domination in 3..2...1..

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:13 | 3082341 malikai
malikai's picture

I'd ride that train.. Right to the coinshop.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:18 | 3082366 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They will.  Or rather, everyone will lose faith in the pricing mechanism of the market and withdraw from it, sending the price to zero.

This will happen when people are no longer able to secure physical delivery from the COMEX.  It is then that the industrial panic begins.  The only defense we have is to continue to accumulate for so long as physical is available.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:22 | 3082387 malikai
malikai's picture

Fortunately, nothing brings on more supply like margin hikes.

So far..

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:54 | 3082500 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Right, because as we all know, the simple act of raising margins for Crimex contracts cause real elemental metal to mysteriously percolate from beneath the deep dark earth and emerge in front of us refined, pure, assayed, minted, and good for delivery.

I'm making a grimace like the Queen of England passing upon a dreadfully shabby collection of bullion bars.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 13:21 | 3082949 Haole
Haole's picture

The problem is there are still many people/commentators/etc. in the PM community, let's just call them PM bugs for simplicity, that trade futures.  Even Turd Furgeson was trading until lately, some of his followers still trade given the comments on his front page.  McGuire selling into the market if it suits, Dan Dontrose (sp?) from TFV continuously shorting silver if it looks like a good trade, Celente was in there heavy until he got Corzined...  How many self-described fans of PM fundamentals and hard money are still actively part of the problem participating in this casino of fraud and manipulation?


Anyone who participates in the paper PM markets is part of the problem, it's that simple.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:57 | 3082253 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Well, it appears whoever keeps doing this 'dumping' does not have the greatest price-sensitivity..."

I wonder who that might be?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:16 | 3082342 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture

Early this morning while i was attempting to attatch the ol' wig infront of the lobby mirror my own reflection slapped me and said:

"Listen wiseguy,don't be all sensitive and sentimental, jus' short gold and silver and go long the $Euro and Bank Of America ya dumbass"


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:24 | 3082592 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Your reflection is backwards.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:58 | 3082256 casaananda
casaananda's picture

Yeah, and the dollar is falling, too. Makes no godamn sense. Very depressing.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082294 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Did you think the end of the world's reserve currency was going to go down without a fight? This is war baby!. The day you wake up and gold is up $400/oz and you are jumping up and down you may be surprised to see how depressing things get after that.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:35 | 3082434 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Word! It's a muthafugin war!

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:09 | 3082318 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Makes no godamn sense. Very depressing."

Then "it" is working. In a con game all that matters is the confidence of the mark(s). Since you oppose the confidence game your confidence must be shattered. This is why the phrase "Don't fight the Fed" has so much merit........until it doesn't. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:12 | 3082335 reload
reload's picture

possibly painting the tape for year end?

Silver was $27.80 odd on Jan 1st - helps preserve `confidence` if it underperforms the R2000 etc by a big fat margin.

Obviously the fundamentals for metals look as sound as ever, physical holders are unlikely to be ovrly worried. Leveraged players not so relaxed, but so what.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:20 | 3082381 Michelle
Michelle's picture

Can't believe people believe in fundamentals when the banksters are in charge. I will repeat again what I've been saying for months - pm's are manipulated just like every other asset class and fundamentals will not prevail. Everyone here seems to believe in manipulated markets EXCEPT for pm's? Give me a break.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:48 | 3082474 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I suspect it is more along the lines that many believe PMs will best survive the manipulated markets, including the manipulated PM market.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:59 | 3082257 Stuart
Stuart's picture

The Chinese are loving Western stupidity! Dumb round eyes. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:02 | 3082281 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



A few billion idiots don't scare us in Jersey.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:12 | 3082333 Stuart
Stuart's picture

I guess not.  Snooki is scary enough to de-sensitize all of you. 

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:00 | 3082258 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:35 | 3082439 ShorTed
ShorTed's picture

you keep using that word...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:59 | 3082259 Racer
Racer's picture

Either someone needs cash in a hurry or has to be concerted effort to discourage holding gold.

So what, just thank them for giving you a better price to get in for the long hold. Gold will never go out of fashion or be used as toilet paper

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:00 | 3082260 unrulian
unrulian's picture


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:00 | 3082264 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Monetary Cliff?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:00 | 3082265 tetsujin
tetsujin's picture

silver getting HAMMEREDDDD

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:01 | 3082277 Solid Gold Bubble
Solid Gold Bubble's picture

Hi Blythe

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:02 | 3082278 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

My wife ordered me to buy MOAR this morning.

Thanks Ben.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082287 There ya go again.
There ya go again.'s picture

They don't want people running to PM's when we go over the knock ém down now......

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:05 | 3082304 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

OR......Kleptocrats trying to create an entry for themselves(?)

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 11:38 | 3082655 viahj
viahj's picture

exactly, they can print as much as they want to slam the price to pick up physical for less.  China loves it also and is also a large client of JPM's Blythe.  have we had one report of any central bank selling gold for fiat?  i thought that they were all accumilating or trying to reclaim what they think is theirs from foreign hands.  fuck, even the Queen herself felt the need to visually inspect the stash.  fiat is dying, everyone knows this.  gold will be the foundation of the next go around.  that's why the IMF is the 2nd largest hoarder, they expect to be the maker of the new system but think that China will have a say.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082289 east paris trader
east paris trader's picture

It's year-end window dressing by the Fed/JPM.  Can't let gold look to shiny in all the Y-Y return comparisons.   This will continue into next week.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:03 | 3082295 mdtrader
mdtrader's picture

Gold bulls need to step to the plate here, otherwise $1520 is going to be a realistic target.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:07 | 3082312 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

who gives a shit? 1600....1500...1400...if there is any point at which you would sell you might as well sell right here. Or just go for a walk or go to work. This may take a while...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:08 | 3082313 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



So how much can we put you down for?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:10 | 3082324 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I am heading for some silver soon. That's for sure.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:29 | 3082411 new game
new game's picture

sub 30 is soon, but briefly- in a historical sense...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:05 | 3082301 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

The move lower is disturbing nonetheless.  Weak handed longs reacting to three handle GDP, well....So odd to see falling USD/Gold. Umm deflation? Umm growth? Bumfucked criminals??? That's it.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:05 | 3082303 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

If there was a fundamental reason for the price of gold to be THIS high, then they would not be closing gold mines in South Africa. However, we will only know that the scam has run its course when the "Cash for Gold" stores start closing.

I still suspect that we have been completely lied to and gold is NOT a rare commodity. Just as diamonds are not rare at all.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:14 | 3082343 Sheeple Shepard
Sheeple Shepard's picture

Compared to paper and electronic tickets, Gold and Silver are practically extinct Mario.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 16:33 | 3084011 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey mario... You forgot the word stupid between REAL and mario,don't forget to use upper case.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:06 | 3082309 nevket240
nevket240's picture

Makes sense when you understand that 'someone' is no longer buying arsepaper, but is buying Gold, real stuff. If the value of that real suff is of lesser value, maybe 'someone' can be concinced to buy some arsepaper.

Dogfuckers at it again.

regards from Bangers.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:08 | 3082310 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm just pissed because there hasn't been a good setup on the way down since silver/gold at the beginning of the month.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:08 | 3082314 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

It's 9AM do you know where your physical bars are ?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:09 | 3082317 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



It had better be in the damn sock drawer where I left it......or no one in this room is leaving.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:32 | 3082420 new game
new game's picture

hope you keep the glock in the underwear drawer

would want to see you lose it all...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:33 | 3082426 new game
new game's picture

sorry; "wouldn't" want you to lose it all

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 12:14 | 3082852 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

"It's 9AM do you know where your physical bars are ?"

Yup. Thing is I went fishing and didn't want to leave it behind at the house...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:09 | 3082319 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

This does not bode well for paper holdings. On the other hand, Santa is really coming through for those who like shiney lake bottom ornaments...

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:09 | 3082320 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

Can they do this forever?  They want the world to see the manipulation as a warning don't touch gold and silver stick with our fiat papers.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:16 | 3082360 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

The PM market can remain irrational longer than you can remain sane.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:26 | 3082403 Stuart
Stuart's picture

until miners start withholding their gold from the exchanges, yes they can.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:10 | 3082323 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

Perhaps the confiscation orders come on Monday and someone got advance notice?

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:11 | 3082326 Smuckers
Smuckers's picture

They're trying to do to silver what they are successfully doing to the USD.  Debase, hammer down, weaken.


Lets print billions each month, and make a physical, valuable, and finite resource cheaper in the process.

Someone needs to cuff Ben upside the head with a gold bar.


Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:11 | 3082327 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

No no no no, this is about confidence in governments around the world being restored. (eyes rolling)

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:16 | 3082330 MeanReversion
MeanReversion's picture

Gold dumped after the upward revision to GDP.  Stops were blown at the 200DMA leading to further losses.  Doesn't help that trading is thin today.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:12 | 3082331 mdtrader
mdtrader's picture

Potential for a key day reversal today if we can get some upside momentum. Only a small trading range yesterday to take out.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:12 | 3082332 jomama
jomama's picture

at this rate, i'm gonna be rich, bitchez!!!!

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:16 | 3082334 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture


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