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Gun-Control Today; Fat-Control Tomorrow?
Leaving the highly sensitive topic of "gun-control" aside for the time being, one can't help but wonder if it isn't time that the US government, seemingly hell-bent on regulating virtually everything in its quest to prove (to itself?) that America's population can no longer be trusted with making any responsible decisions on it own (and in the process becoming even bigger), shouldn't be more focused on "fat-control" instead. Why? Because while guns may or may not kill people, the bottom line is that of the 32K or so death attributed to firearms, roughly 20K, or two thirds were suicides, meaning firearm-based homicides were 11,015 in 2010. Putting this number in perspective, every year some 935,000 Americans suffer a heart attack, and 600,000 people die from some form heart disease: 1 in every 4 deaths. Net result to society: the cost of coronary heart disease borne by everyone is $108.9 billion each year. And of all proximal factors contributing to heart disease, obesity and overweight is the main one. But of course one can't make a media spectacle out of 600,000 hospital wards where people quietly pass away, in many cases due to a lifetime of ill decisions relating primarily to food consumption. In fact, some estimate that obesity now accounts for one fifth of the total US health-care bill (the part of the budget which no amount of tax increase can offset). Which is why if the topic of gun-control has managed to promptly tear the country into two (or three, or more), just wait until fat-control (far more than the recent tepid overtures into this field such as Bloomberg's NYC sugary soda ban) rears its ugly head and sends the already polarized (and weaponized) US society into a state of agitated hyperflux.
Some useful observations on this topic from The Economist:
IN 1937 George Orwell suggested that “changes of diet” might be more important than “changes of dynasty or even of religion”. Now he is being proved right in a way he might not have expected. Having spent millennia worrying about not having enough food, mankind’s main concern is now eating too much (see our special report on obesity).
The story of human health in the past few decades is a broadly encouraging one. Life expectancy has increased—globally, by 12 years for women and 11 years for men from 1970 to 2010. But greater longevity means that people spend more years chronically ill (see article). Obesity makes things worse by raising the risk of diabetes, heart disease, strokes and some cancers. In much of the world, being too fat is now the single largest driver of sickness.
In 2008 obesity rates were nearly double those of 1980. One in three adults was overweight, with a body-mass index (BMI) of 25 or more (at least 77kg for a man 175cm tall); 12% were obese, with a BMI of at least 30. In America, ever the world leader, about two-thirds of adults were overweight in 2008. But Britain lumbered close behind, with six in ten too fat. The problem is not confined to rich countries. Thanks to economic growth, people around the world are eating more food. Workers burn fewer calories at their desks than in the fields. Even in China, one in four adults was too fat in 2008. In Brazil more than half were. Obesity rates in Mexico, Venezuela and South Africa matched those of America. The Pacific islands and Gulf states are home to some of the world’s fattest people.
For those (like this newspaper) who believe that the state should generally keep its nose out of people’s private affairs, obesity presents a quandary. “A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits,” Orwell pointed out; “an unemployed man doesn’t…You want to eat something a little bit tasty.” If people get great pleasure from eating more than is good for them, should they not be allowed to indulge themselves? After all, individuals bear the bulk of the costs of obesity, quite literally. They suffer at work, too: their wages are often lower and, in America, some employers also make fat workers pay more for health insurance.
Yet in most countries the state covers some or most of the costs of health care, so fat people raise costs for everyone. In America, for instance, a recent paper estimated that obesity was responsible for a fifth of the total health-care bill, of which nearly half is paid by the federal government. And there are broader social costs. The Pentagon says that obesity is shrinking its pool of soldiers. Obesity lowers labour productivity. And state intervention is justified where it saves people from great harm at little cost to themselves. Only zealots see seat-belt laws as an affront to personal liberty. Anti-smoking policies, controversial at first, are generally viewed as a success.
So which is it: state intervention? Or, as the Economist correctly asserts for once: individual liberties where people have no choice but to experience the consequences of one or more of their own wrong decisions? But what happens when the entire state is already broke from pre-funding generations of precisely these bad decisions, and there is nothing left in the state's piggy bank for those who wish to behave prudently and sensibly? The Economist has some further thoughts:
In the absence of a single big solution to obesity, the state must try many small measures. Governments, some of which already intervene a lot in the first few months of people’s lives, should ensure that parents are warned of the dangers of overfeeding their babies. Schools should serve nutritious lunches, teach children how to eat healthily and give them time to run around. Urban planners should make streets and pavements friendlier to cyclists and pedestrians. Taxing sugary fizzy drinks—which unlike fatty foods have no nutritional value—and limiting the size of the containers in which they can be sold may work. Philadelphia and New York, for example, have implemented a range of such policies, and have seen child-obesity rates dip ever so slightly.
There is a limit, however, to what the state can or should do. In the end, the responsibility and power to change lie primarily with individuals. Whether people go on eating till they pop, or whether they opt for the healthier, slimmer life, will have a bigger effect on the future of the species than most of the weighty decisions that governments make.
Just like in the sensitive issue of gun-control, there is no easy, or definitive answer when it comes to the world's most overweight nation. Perhaps, however, the best clue to what should happen comes from the WSJ's interview with the 107 year old Irving Khan, one of Wall Street's oldest investors and Ben Graham's research assistant, who made the following remark on unwholesome lifestyles: "Millions of people die every year of something they could cure themselves: lack of wisdom and lack of ability to control their impulses."
And that's really it. Sadly, the government, in its encroaching desire to become the world's nanny state par excellence, already believes it can offset everything else, including human stupidity and impulse control. That it can't will become very apparent in time, but only when everyone finally wakes up from the 150 year old dream that started with Bismarck's 'Welfare State' utopia, and sadly ends in bloodshed. With or without gun control.
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Some Germans are Braun people.
Trav, your every post simply proves how wise Tyler was in banning you in the first place ---and how unwise he/they were in allowing you back in here.
My solution? Well, since I don't think and look at problems with the racist, group-identity bent that you do, I can only say that there IS no "solution" as you think of it. In your racist, collectivist mindset, you are naturally looking for some one-size-fits-all, blunt-force, sweeping program (or is it "pogrom"?) that will "deal with the problem". I can only hold that we deal with individuals AS individuals, and ignore the simplistic and racist, hateful, intellectually dead-end thinking that you apparently hold so dear.
so you fucking PUNT?
What a TOTAL piece of shit you are.
Groups ARE NOT individuals, IDIOT. In places where SIGNIFICANT numbers of individuals from a particular CLASS are, the attributes of the CLASS matter. It's a simple issue of POPULATION DYNAMICS.
You are too fucking chickenshit to come out from under the umbrella of social approval. Yeah, let individuals deal with it...that's been working BONZER so far, hasn't it?
Either WE CHOOSE or NATURE WILL. You gonna fuckin argue with Bartlett now, too? I said "LOW IQ." I did not say RACE.
Stupid motherfucker. The reason you hate me is because I expose you for what you are: vacuous.
No, you lying bastard, I am not "punting", any more than those who have always defended the right to gun ownership are "punting" for refusing to give in to the emotion-driven, muddle-headed bromides of the gun-control crowd. Really, why do you invariably allow your collectivist hatred to override your intellect?
Keep going, you vile piece of racist trash, and get banned again here --- as you deserve, and have always deserved.
Am wondering if a lawsuit was used to get back in as a commenter. Just an observation. I don't care one way or another. I can mentally filter out the outlier comments without getting all worked up about it.
Hey, waitaminute...I LIKE Trav's honesty as a hateful fuck. It's just such simple proof that proud racism is alive and well. We might forget this if we didn't have such pefrect examples. Is there really banning and such around here? Someone knows for sure.
wow...pointing out the TRUTH about crime demographics is racism?
fuck, you are just ... stupid.
Why is it that you "freethinkers" cannot see how conditioned you are? This shit is STRAIGHT out of Orwell! They have REDEFINED portions of the TRUTH as RACISM and you avoid them assiduously. War really is peace, I guess.
wow...pointing out the TRUTH about crime demographics is racism?
Is that really what you think I said? And you call ME stupid?
Overlay homicidal behavior and poverty, irrespective of color, and notice the stronger correlation, shitwit.
It's useless effing idiots like you that make these problems insoluble because you cannot figure out what CAUSES poverty in the first place.
The same things cause poverty as cause crime.
This ought to have been obvious to all of you superbright "freethinkers" around here. But it's not because you don't want it to be. You INSIST on believing in FAIRY TALES.
You ACTUALLY believe that violent homicide is explicable as a matter of net worth? How about RAPE? You think that a woman in africa is more likely to be raped than graduate high school because of...poverty?
This is why idiots like you throw trillions of dollars into solving something nature didn't want solved...stupidity.
A woman in Africa is a victim of broken politics, in no small part due to European intervention in the region for centuries, but also as a matter of fucked up African culture.
You do know that Mississippi isn't Africa though, right Trav?
Poverty is caused by poor academic achievement is caused by poor parenting is caused by lack of time is caused by having to work to survive at shit jobs, also know as CODA
I believe violent homicide is a solution chosen by people with few other good ones, for the most part (white homicidal semi-auto rifle nuts aside).
As for violent homicide and net worth...try putting the horse in front of the cart, dumbass.
I must agree with you here Trav. My brother regularly travels to India and Sri Lanka and often tells me of the poverty he encounters. Poverty no American could remotely fathom . Yet, to his and my fascination, there is low rates of violent crime dispite horrendous living conditions of a majority of people. In America we correlate poverty with crime but I've come to the conclusion it can't be causal. Frankly I don't know what truly causes it. Perhaps the homogeneous society or caste system imparts stability in these countries. Or maybe the belief one should follow rules. Interesting points...thanks.
Miffed:-)
Why is the murder rate in rural West Virginia so much lower than Detroit? Those hillbillies don't even have plumbing, obama phones, spinner rims, or cable TV.
Because the people in West Virginia are all related. When you're inbred everybody's family.
In the extreme case where the state was 'coming after you,' individual arms wouldn't save you. Despite the fantasies of survivalists, protection against such intrusion comes from organizing with others, not owning or having access to individual firearms. The state has the overwhelming monoply on force and they're not the ones plopped in front of the boob tube eating greasy potato chips while being 'entertained'.
Guns for hunting and sport are fine but there is room for legislation on this issue.
Bleeding Fart , the right to bare arms shall NOT be infringed . I do not hunt or use guns much but i do own them , WHY , because in the not to distant future the Government will start killing it's own people , like they have done in all of history . If you look at the Government now they are doing what all the other dictators have done in the past , but they are insane so they think this time it will be different . FEMA camps 1.2 billion hollow point 12,000 guillotines in storage at Fort Hood ,indefinite detention and re-education camps . So go ahead give them your life but I will die not as a slave but as a sovereign , this Government is De Facto it is nothing more than a Corperation that you are in contract with , they only understand violance now is the time to stop them.
Do you have info or a source for the guillotines? googled it but the only info I could find was from crazies.
Definition of a "crazy":
One who does not believe, for example, the government's explanation concerning 9/11.
Haha I was thinking about being more clear in my post but decided to be lazy. If it were true the government agents that exist to discredit those rumors would censor the legit looking sources and leave the most rediculous ones. Of course, if it was totally made up then there'd only be sources from crazy people anyway. Game theory!
"the right to bare arms shall NOT be infringed"
Holy shit, is someone closing the beach? Where are my guns!
Take the blue Thorazine!
Can you tell us why this is necessary? What exactly do you believe the govt is preparing for, wise guy? And be specific. Because we would all like to know why the country is collapsing into its footprint. Rounding up irate Iranians? Irate Palestinians? Annoying OWS members? World of Warcraft members? Why would all of this PREPARATION FOR VIOLENCE be necessary, hmmm?
Thank you. I await your response.
Sec. 3. Mission and Function of the Council and Steering Committee. (a) The Council shall, consistent with guidance from the Steering Committee:
(i) advise the Chair and Steering Committee members on priorities, challenges, and opportunities for local partnerships to support homeland security priorities, as well as regularly report to the Steering Committee on the Council's efforts; (ii) promote homeland security priorities and opportunities for collaboration between Federal Government field offices and State, local, tribal, and territorial stakeholders; (iii) advise and confer with State, local, tribal, and territorial stakeholders and agencies interested in expanding or building local homeland security partnerships; (iv) raise awareness of local partnership best practices that can support homeland security priorities; (v) as appropriate, conduct outreach to representatives of the private sector, nongovernmental organizations, foundations, community-based organizations, and State, local, tribal, and territorial government and law enforcement entities with relevant expertise for local homeland security partnerships, and collaborate with other Federal Government bodies; and (vi) convene an annual meeting to exchange key findings, progress, and best practices.http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/10/26/executive-order-establishing-white-house-homeland-security-partnership-c
Fine, try the red!
"...boob tube eating greasy potato chips while being 'entertained'" - Bleeding Fart.
Well I, for one, am not in that catagory... you keep trusting them. Enjoy your time in the FEMA camp scrapping over the last tin of cat food.
FOOL, you're on the wrong site. Go back to huffpost with the rest of the useful idiots.
If you'd actually read my comment, you'd know I was not talking about whether or not I 'trusted' them. Then you made a assumption about which websites I read.
I know thinking critically is difficult, but I was saying that in the case that they actually wanted to go after you, owning or having access to arms as an INDIVIDUAL would not deter the government since it has an overwhelming monoply on force. Like I said above, there are times this has actually happened. Case in point, the social conventions that prevent the state in the UK from seizing Assange.
Please continue living in an idealized romantic world where your individual arms are a bulwark against tyranny.
In my 24 year military career, I never knew a single door kicker who wasn't deeply concerned about what would be pointing at them upon crossing the threshold. You might not see it on "Cops", but door kickers get shot too.
Are you implying "door kickers" are pro-gun control?
Military breaching teams acting under lawful orders in a combat zone are always concerned about the weapons pointed at them. They are not "pro-gun control" (whatever that means), they simply understand that a well armed opposition force should be respected. The implication is that any government entity from any nation that acts to abuse the rights of its own citizenry should likewise be concerned.
Thanks for responding. I would have given you an up arrow for the second para has I completley agree with you. But the third I cannot. Thinking critically is not difficult however you also need to take into account the lesson that history can give you.
Individual arms ARE a bulwark against state tyranny. Ask the white russians, pre-WW2 germans, Soviets, Chinese, Cambodians, countless Africans, the list could go on and on. Ironically, in more recent times the Iraqis, with their AK's in every home (I exaggerate) did a stirling job of fucking up the occupation by the finest military machine the world has ever seen. In WW2 Hitler's generals did not invade Switzerland as it was not worth the treasure. Would have been a perpetual and costly slaughter for his own troops to occupy this country due the terrain and that fact that every adult male was armed. They would have gone 'Mosul' on his arse.
All I ask is that you consider and think about this. At this point in time you are free to hold your own opinion.
Best wishes for xmas - I mean that!
That's the dumbest explanation of Swiss collusion I have ever fucking seen.
That is very funny, but you've probably done it at too abstract a level--it wouldn't play in Peoria.
It's only dumb to ignorant shitheads like you
Thinking critically is difficult and as you displayed, you haven't mastered yet.
Let's take some facts to dispute your post. America's LARGEST armed force is its citizens. The point of the 2nd Amendment has nothing do to with hunting. Quite frankly, it has nothing to do with protecting myself against criminals breaking in to my home. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH PROTECTING MYSELF AGAINST A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. And that is the extreme case. The organization of others can come with or without arms. The difference is whether I have the arms or I have to import those arms from some foriegn entity like other freedom loving people. Look at your overwhelming down arrows and see you are in the minority with your liberal erroneous thought.
This is why President I-ME-MY-Obama ALWAYS refers to firearms in relation to hunting and NEVER to citizens protecting their rights against tyrants (like him).
If he had been raised as a real American, instead of a mohammedan in bum-fuck Indonesia, he would understand the main reason for the 2nd Amendment.
When one organizes with others one does not have the opportunity to unilaterally declare guns off limits. You're a wannabe dictator not a proponent of social interaction.
Did I say I wanted 'guns off limits'? No, you just made that assumption.
You said:
That same government demands that schools be designated "Gun Free Zones." You seem to be either supportive of that government or in fear of it and so it seems only appropriate that you should have to live by the same rules which are forced upon others due to the craven complicity of people like you.
Like Mark Levin said, It's not about gun control, it's about citizen control.
I've enjoyed reading your bloviations as I load 30 rd magazines. You should remind the savages in Iraq that what they did is not possible. Smalls arms and some IED's kept the US busy for some time. That was not in our soldiers hometowns. By the way the wielders of that force do not come in large majority from your side of the tracks BF, they come from mine. We had a gun control discussion, your side lost as Lying Billy Bob above stated with his support of the NRA position. You keep bloviating, make yourself feel good and stay out of my way.
I wasn't talking about wars in foreign lands which require popular support. I was talking about the scenario where the government was after an individual in a domestic civil liberties setting.
I've not even said much anything on gun control, if you can actually read.
People can have guns in America, that's the law/tradition. What I'm saying is that it's not a 'well-armed populace' which is a deterrent against tyranny because the modern state will always have more firepower/legitimacy than an armed individual.
So you missed the "militia" part of the Second Amendment? It's right there in black and white.
They step on their dicks & tongues everytime...lol.
The entirety of the Bill of Rights consists of restrictions on what the federal government cannot do.
Not the People cannot do. Its right there...in black & white.
You mean the dependent clause that you still can't manage to parse correctly after 237 years of explanation?
No, I mean the dependent clause which you still can't manage to parse correctly. The Second Amendment says that the right of individuals to bear arms will not be constrained as it is necessary for those individuals to be well versed in the use of arms should it ever be necessary for them to help defend their community against aggression of any kind.
You apparently missed the part where I stated the soldiers come from my part of town/country. You think they will come for me, no they'll come for you. Be careful, so careful what you wish for you may get it.
It is completely ignored by northeastern and left coast urban types that the military is NOT homogenous- combat soldiers only rarely come from their areas. 2010 DOD report on who makes up the military:
http://prhome.defense.gov/RFM/MPP/ACCESSION%20POLICY/PopRep2010/summary/summary.html
Section II Active component- Look at recruitment rates by region and individual state in Figures 16 and 17. The South is about 30% of the US population but 42-3% of the military, and the majority of other high producing states are the rest of flyover country. The northeast produces a very small portion of the military and the California recruitment rate is also very low. Figure 18 is also very informative; the overwhelming majority of the population is urban but look how low the percentages are compared to rural and small town America.
Another very telling bit of reality is under Appendix B Active Component, Table B-21 which gives the racial breakdown of actual fighting troops. There is a popular myth among urban types that non-whites are the bulk of combat troops, this is a complete lie. The percentage of whites in the Army and Marines in combat roles is far higher than any other group as a percentage of total whites enlisted, blacks are far lower than any other group as a percentage of total blacks enlisted. It is also interesting to see that a hugely disproportionate percentage of blacks are in adminstrative jobs. Given that only 12% of all blacks in the Army and Marines are in combat jobs and the total percentage of blacks in the military is in the low teens, hmmm 12% of 15% is... what percentage of the land fighting capability of the US?
Anyone who argues that white non urban males are not the overwhelming majority of US land combat strength is a fucking idiot and should be treated with comtempt as they watch too much TV.
The bottom line is that the actual fighting troops are flyover country types- white guys who come from rural areas and small towns who are generally looked down on by the urban pseudo-sophisticates. As the above poster noted- if things go bad, they aren't coming for their parents, siblings, and lifelong friends, they are coming for you and most of flyover country won't give a shit.
BF "What I'm saying is that it's not a 'well-armed populace' which is a deterrent against tyranny because the modern state will always have more firepower/legitimacy than an armed individual." Obviously if your argument is only individuals would defy a corrupt government your dumb argument should die a quiet deat now... Otherwise how are the Syrians doing against Assad or the Iranians against the Shah.
Please just admit you want a monopoly on Government force because it makes you feel better, Sure we can have our bb guns and such for target shooting maybe even check a shotgun and three rounds out of the Government safes once a year and go hunting but real force, the force that semi-auto 5.56 - .308 rifles have, no, too scary for serfs to control. Lick the hand that feeds you and provides temporary fleeting security, you are not my brother.
"you are not my brother".
Harsh.But so very true.
Long 30-06, 45acp, 5.56mm.
Brother.
Bleeding Fart": "What I'm saying is that it's not a 'well-armed populace' which is a deterrent against tyranny because the modern state will always have more firepower/legitimacy than an armed individual."
If that were true, then every regime toppled (such as happening in various muslim nations), would refute and prove your statement wrong.
got this in an email once. sure seems like more regulation is required:
* Pythagorean theorem:……………………………………………..24 words.
** Lord’s prayer:………………………………………………………….66 words.
** Archimedes’ Principle:………………………………………………67 words.
** 10 Commandments:……………………………………………….179 words.
** Gettysburg address:……………………………………………… 286 words.
** Declaration of Independence :……………………………….1,300 words.
** US Constitution with all 27 Amendments:………………..7,818 words.
** US Government regulations on sale of cabbage…………………. .26,911 words.
PROGRESS!
FORWARD!
SI SE PUEDE!
It's funny that you imply that 'government' cannot be resisted given the fact that the 'world's only super power' has remained in it's longest war (over 10 years) against goat herders armed only with RPGs and AK-47s.
If you believe that giving a monopoly on guns to 'the police' will keep you safe then you do not understand the genocidal history of uniformed mobs.
It's funny that you imply that 'government' cannot be resisted given the fact that the 'world's only super power' has remained in it's longest war (over 10 years) against goat herders armed only with RPGs and AK-47s.
If you believe that giving a monopoly on guns to 'the police' will keep you safe then you do not understand the genocidal history of uniformed mobs.
The "Guns Gold & Ammo" brigade that dominate ZH blog responses are really going to have to wake up to the unfortunate fact that the USA spends 25% of the WORLD'S military spending for a reason.
The US Military have access to some pretty sophisticated and effective antipersonnel weaponry - some of which is almost straight out of a Sci Fi film.
Consider also that if TPTB feel that their grip on the population is at all threatened, they WILL respond in what will be to them "sufficient force", and that force may well include nuclear (particularly enhanced-radiation) weapons, chemical, or biological weaponry.
Consider also that Chem / Bioweapons have advanced a VERY long way since the end of WW2, as have their delivery systems.
The Geneva and other Conventions on warfare will mean nothing should the "need arise for population management by force"
The more important question is who makes up the military, and who has their fingers on the actual triggers?
It is the brothers, cousins, and friends of the Guns & Ammo types. It ain't guys like you.
Once the bio/chem weapons are unleashed, all it will take to put an end to it are a couple of generals or admirals to launch nukes on DC. Do you really think the military will allow the politicians unleash these chem/bio weapons on their familes and friends? Every officer in the military has family and friends who will be killed by the weapons. Do you think they kill their own little Johnny or Janie just because Obama or Biden or Romney told them to do it?
Advocates of overwhelming .gov force never mention that. The Lt's, Mrjors and Colonels that command those bio/chem/Mlrs units have families and homes here.. That is why it would have to be an outside force then things get really messy.
Sure there are bastards like Gen Wesley Clark that would certainly push the button. But it will be the loyalty of everyone else that they will have to worry about.
Pretty understandable why Stalin had to periodically purge every fucker to make sure he could rule by fear and just churn the clowns over and over again. I always reflect on this as such fitting end to this piece of scum Laverintiy Beria (sorry it's from Wiki but this is well understood) when the time was there those in power just pounced:
Beria and all the other defendants were sentenced to death. When the death sentence was passed, according to Moskalenko's later account,[citation needed] Beria pleaded on his knees for mercy[31] before collapsing to the floor and wailing and crying energetically, but to no avail: the other six defendants were executed by firing squad on 23 December 1953, the same day as the trial,[32] while Beria was fatally shot through the forehead by General Batitsky after the latter stuffed a rag into Beria's mouth to silence his bawling. The body of Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria was subsequently cremated and buried around Moscow's forest.
Not too mention most of the trigger-pullers/sharp end of the spear guys are way way way politically conservative. Most of the minority libs/progressives in the military are clustered in medical, law, intel and non-ops specialties. In other words, not the peoplle given an order to drop 2,000 lb iron bombs on American citizens or to open up with an M-40 on a crowd. If you thought fragging was a problem in Vietnam, this scenario would end up with everyone at the Brigade level and below going off the reservation.
Which is why the DHS, FBI, ATF, CIA and TSA will be the ones pulling the triggers. They are not the same animal as the military rank and file.
Don't need to go into what affect overconsuming 'adult beverages' does to the family, workplace, driving (Dui related injuries and death), health, whatever.
In some countries just ONE DUI results in your driving privileges being revoked for LIFE.
Now that's a way to reduce the 'Carbon Footprint'.
guns don't kill people. people kill people who do not have guns.
The two common themes among all 'American massacres', is that the shooters have been on psychotropic drugs, and the victims have not been armed in order to protect themselves. Yet, the State ignores the pharmaceutical companies, and attacks the armaments of law-abiding citizens; can you recognize tyranny when you see it?
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with no permit of any kind: some say it’s crazy. However, four out of five US murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who’s crazy?” – Andrew Ford
"A government that intended to protect the liberty of the people would not disarm them. A government planning the opposite most certainly and logically would disarm them. And so it has been in this century. Check out the history of Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, China and Cambodia." -Charley Reese, syndicated columnist
"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." - Walter Mondale, U.S. Ambassador to Japan
It's the massive and sudden bloodloss, in the end.
Lack of oxygen to the brain, usually.
I also find it interesting that they seem to come from very comfortable upper middle to upper class homes where dear ol' Dad was busy with his career and little mentally ill junior was left to his own devices.
We need to ban out-of-control governments, out-of-control governments kill people...
The Amish have no cars and plenty of them are pretty chubby...the women, anyway.
I'm not for gun-control.
But should people with autism be allowed to carry semi-automatic rifles?
Should those with Down's Syndrome be given bazookas?
I have no answers.
Just food for thought.
http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2012/12/yesterday-i-walked-five-miles-to-my.html
Dude, if you ever "illegally" stop an autistic with a Bushmaster or a Downer with a bazooka, I'll testify for your law-breakin' ass.
.
It's not that we have too much food. It's that the USA has SHITTY food.
The crap in GMO foods is lethal to humans and animals long term.
BZZZZT, WRONG. Guns owners, like car drivers, need to be licensed, carry registration and have proof of insurance on their person at all times. This is a perfect Free Market solution predicated on individual responsibility, so every sane ZH user will doubtlessly embrace it.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/breakingviews/2012/12/18/congress_should_push...
Gays have a 500% higher rate of AIDS than heterosexuals, so they should be registered and have proof of insurance on themselves at all times. This is a perfect socialist solution predicated on overbearing government intrusion into personal liberty, so every sane liberal will doubtlessly embrace it.
Ban forks and spoons.
And ban buffets. Problem solved...bitchez.
Mayor Boobberg has determined that spoons make people fat: ban spoons.
AP - BLOOMBERG: FAT PEOPLE TO BE SHOT AFTER THEIR GUNS ARE CONFISCATED
Please, not Honey boo boo.....pleaseeeee
They could give ONE rats arse about the deaths, it's all about the $$$$$.
Truth
We need to review medication. Almost 25% of people in this country are on some kind of psychiatric medication (including Adam Lanza, who STOLE those guns).
AND, a strong link between those meds and violence.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201101/psychiatric-drugs-and-violence-review-fda-data-finds-link
But we blame the guns.
But psychiatrists have already proclaimed that they rule the world, and who can stop them?
Indeed.
They do have the power to declare anyone mentally incompetent or deranged. How hard is it to keep guns from citizens once they are deemed to have any one of the litany of "mental illnesses"?
Is it any wonder that we are coming up with new mental illnesses every year?
The new edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, which is the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals in the United States, and acceptable in courts of law, defines every single last human emotion as a psychiatric disorder.
Go figure....
Yes, use that imagination.
You cried and are therefore ill, made a nasty politically incorrect comment so your guns are confiscated and your ass is renditioned off to Bulgaria, legally, without trial, for interrogation.
Go fucking figure
T4 much?
Scarily true Knuks... Psychiatry, why not Scientology. Different branchies of Orwellian pseudo-science that have always been part of the plan.
I'm suprised that there is still any ammunition / guns left in the whole country after the last week.
If the sensible people of the USA give up the 2nd amendment then all the rest of us round the world are completely fucked - It's that important for you all and the rest of us.
.... this will not end well.
I agree with you. If America falls, we all fall. ::gulp:: Moral support provided to the good people of the USA 24/7!
Review? There will be MOAR medication. If you walk into a doctor's office and tell him that you're frustrated, the world is closing in on you, people are angry and stressed, there's less and less opportunity in the world, etc., etc., out comes the perscription pad and some SSRI variant becomes life's little helper. That way, when someone puts a list of 75 statistics that prove America is up shit creek, you'll just shrug your shoulders and render yourself free of the emotion and drive to do anything about it.
If you are one of the tiny number of unfortunate users who wing-out on the meds (see Lanza, et al) that's OK too. That situation will be turned around to further the cause of the destroyers of America. Sometime soon item 76 will read "from 300 million guns to less than 1 million, all in the hands of government" and not only will you not even notice, but nobody will be able to do anything about it anyway.
All part of the plan.
Watch what happens when your medical records are digitized and are available by simply entering your SS # and birthday.
In my county, the local hospital has been buying up all the independant doctor's offices, imaging centers, specialty practices, etc. and in an effort to "improve efficiency" (i.e. profitability) moved everyone's records to their own database. It is one small step to get that info into a national database. If you don't like it, you can go to another hospital - in another county.
donethat
Watch what happens when your info is available on an rfid device implanted on your body as mandated by law, and available from the multiple transponder scanning devices installed throughout our society...
That will NOT happen.
You promise?
For me and mine, yes. What you choose to do who knows, I'll die first.
Me too...or cut it out and stick in a deer ;-)
There is no credible evidence that Adam Lanza stole any guns or shot anyone.
It appears more likely that Lanza was brought along in a drugged stupor by the real (professional killer) perpetrators as the patsy and then suicided. It also appears that the motive was a political one.
Last week the "Big Bang Deniers" emerged at the Hedge, now this...
You are one fucking paranoid dude...
You increase your carbon footprint with every snarky comment. There oughta be a tax for that.
We will never know but MK Ultra does spring to mind. Afterall they have done it before.....
Yes, and MK Ultra was a long time ago (early 1950s onward)...if they haven't improved their methods about 1,000 x since then, just like everything else in the spook and military business has "improved", then I'll be a monkey's uncle.
They would collect more if they imposed a "stupid tax" on him. We could all call it a penalty
The Big Bang is now in syndicated re-runs. How can anyone be stupid enouigh to deny that ???
Penny......Penny.......
Why is it that EVERY gun grabber insults people?
Without a coherent argument, that's all they have.
It's the gun grabbers insistence that little children must die because it's better to pretend that someday guns will vanish from the face of the earth rather than to allow responsible citizens to protect schools, theaters and malls that really pisses me off.
nobody was stopping you from being in CT that day, idiot. Where the fuck were you?
http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail_page.asp?date_ID=CBC7CBCBCC83CDC9CC
DHS:
...HSEEP Training Course will briefly cover other DHS initiatives. As such, it is recommended that participants complete the following IS courses:
IS-130, Exercise Evaluation and Improvement Planning
IS-139, Exercise Design
IS-700, NIMS, An Introduction
IS-800.B, National Response Framework, An Introduction
The course will be held at the Sandy Hook Fire Department, address below.Location: 18 Riverside Road, Sandy Hook CT
This event is 37 miles from you (06106).
__________________
https://twitter.com/JillianLouise25/status/279617091932409856
Twitter sent approximately 1 hour prior to event, asking for help finding sister as a shooting had taken place at the school.
Also, see "media not allowed on crime scene" which is among the hundreds of "fishy" pieces of information.
These are the types of throwaway no thought statements that really define you Trav. You get your blood up and then you toss out garbage two liners liberally sprinkled with invective that adds nothing. If you could stick to the facts you could change some minds about offering incentives and disincentives to fundamentally transform segments of society.
If you think I am a "gun grabber" you've been blinded by your own stupidity...
I don't give a fuck about your guns...
You Zionist ADLers seem to be lining up on the gun confiscation and the no independent investigation of these terror attacks side pretty convincingly. Why is that? Are you afraid you'll be outnumbered when TSHTF?
Why don't you advocate taking the guns away from the Zionist Jew settlers on Palestinian land?
What the fuck are you talking about...
You've gone all but in-fucking-coherent of late...
FWIW, from Veterans Today: Israeli death squads involved in Sandy Hook bloodbath: Intelligence analyst
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/19/super-viral-israeli-death-squads...
Perhaps Mossad planted that story to make anyone who criticizes actual Israeli violence sound like a nut. If they didn't they should have.
yeah, um, this is such a stretch as to be incomprehensible, especially given that there are surviving witnesses to the attack.
Pretty much...no reports of yarmulke wearing Goths running around...just one fucked up little psycho Goth who had just shot his mom in the face.
How do you know he shot his mom in the face? Any credible evidence?
Nancy Lanza was shot four times in the head, my assumption is, she wasn't lying in bed face down...most people would suffocate sleeping that way.
Does the autopsy report work for you?
"The autopsy report for Nancy Lanza, the mother of Sandy Hook Elementary School’s gunman Adam Lanza, states that she was found in her bed and in her pajamas in her large colonial Newport, Conn. home and had been shot in the head four times. The exact time of her death has still not been revealed according to details revealed today."
http://www.examiner.com/article/autopsy-adam-lanza-s-mom-shot-4-times-the-head
Did the autopsy report say Adam Lanza shot her? How do you know it wasn't someone else like perhaps the professionals that needed her kid for a patsy?
Dead men (and women) tell no tales.
You've got to be fucking kidding me...autopsy reports deal with CAUSE of death but there were wounded survivors who identified Adam Lanza as the school shooter.
So now you're gonna say these wounded christians are in cohoots with Mossad or what? Get a hold of yourself.
I noticed you're not challenging the fact his mom was shot in the face like I said...it was Adam Lanza dude, get over it. And a VP of GE (Peter, his dad) who works with corporate taxation (not LIBOR) is pretty thin gruel as well...Crockett already chased that rabbit back into it's hole.
I'm sure if cops and gummit has access to everyone's medical and medicinal history, this senseless violence will be ...like... a lot less.
Or maybe just post it all on Facebook!
Who is this "we" who is going to review the medicaton (Big Pharma? The Federal Government? The AMA?) and who's going to pay for it? Taxpayers?
I suggest the NRA and its acolytes pay for their own suggested solutions instead of asking Obama Claus for more free money.
NWO needs that.
The PTB only want control of one thing: the mind. Everything is is just "fluff a nutter for your peanut butter." Is it just me again or is their an "epic fail" of that right around the corner...AGAIN...as well?
pass a law that says red pill or blue pill already
.
take our guns and give us a living constitution were fucking crazy boi
What you have to understand is that Amerika is always making "war" on something and always trying to "save" everything. Interesting dichotomy, isn't it?
It's why we can simultaneously bomb people to smithereens to get oil to power our SUVs and yet get all worked up about a random kid in Africa. It's completely inconsistent.
So we will attempt to ban all manner of foodstuffs that may or may not contribute to obesity. But while we are doing this, we will of course try to save all the obese people in the ambulances and hospitals. And they will be valued, "Precious" style, and you better not say anything bad about them, then you are a Nazi.
This country is insane.
Your Hegelian Dialectic at Work.
Smile, you're on bigbros camera.
educ ate our children too
Eric Blair aka Goerge Orwell...a great visionary.Often derided but the joke seems increasingly be on his detractors.
However - guncontrol and control of calories may be more related than you think , at first glance.It seems we are always discussing slightly different things - at the same time and confusing action and result. Having lived in the U.S. , Europe and Asia I have had the opportunity to experience foodstuff quality. My take is that the general quality of foodstuffs in the U.S. is quite poor. You can without problem consume same amounts of calories per day in let´s say France without the side effects experienced in the U.S.If you lead a sedentary life and consume even more calories with a high amount of fats (wonderful cheeses - and such) rounded off with liberal lashings of red wine you actually end up loosing weight and feeling better.Not so stateside.
Now on the slightly different topic - control of calories.I have this gnawing feeling that in a couple of years time you will see a drop in calories consumed in parity with surging gun control.It will be interesting.Not pretty - but interesting.
Thats all we need; some pissed off fattys locked and loaded
That may not be what you get.More of a scenario of long train coming...rounding up the not-so-happy part of the population.The Government will not be the first to run out of bullets.And the camps will cure the obesity problem.Maybe it will be something akin to Germany 1930.Work brigades you know.Those folks were shovel-ready.Take a look at youtube.Old UFA film reels show slim men by the thousands - in brigade formations , shirt off,and the shovel carried as a gun on parade ground.
T4
maybe the ayatolla of cokeacola will put scales at the toll boths and charge by the lb
At the end of this decade there will be kids in Beijing and New Delhi sipping their 32 oz sodas asking why children in the USA are starving
"Just like in the sensitive issue of gun-control, there is no easy, or definitive answer when it comes to the world's most overweight nation. Perhaps, however, the best clue to what should happen comes from the WSJ's interview with the 107 year old Irving Khan, one of Wall Street's oldest investors and Ben Graham's research assistant, who made the following remark on unwholesome lifestyles: "Millions of people die every year of something they could cure themselves: lack of wisdom and lack of ability to control their impulses.""
This issue is not like gun control in that the unseen hand of the corporations in this country manipulate food data and studies to make their products seem less harmful than they truly are. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms carry warning labels out the ass, Where's the one on Coca-cola where it says " This product contains GMO corn, a substance known to the Surgeon General to cause cancer, IR, Diabetes, High Cholesterol, etc."
We are litterally being fed boxes of lies, and without informed consumerism, the nanny state will only regulate you into what the corporations decide is good for you this year. I support your right to eat as much as you can afford to of whatever if you so choose, but I want you to know the truth about what you're eating and pay your OWN medical bills, and let me worry about mine.
Not a lof of corn syrup in boef bourguignon,camemebert and bordeaux red wine.Just sayin
They'll have to peel my red wine from my cold dead hands.
Wow, finally a comment on fat control.
As long as we're going full tilt socialist, and there's no turning back -- I propose a 35 hour work week limit, with a mandatory 6 weeks vacation. And no loopholes for part timers or contractors. A big part of the obesity epidemic is stress. Time off to exercise would take care of both at once.
Plus a shorter work week requires more employees to get the same work done. There, I just solved the unemployment problem too. Obama, are you listening? If it's good enough for socialist France, it's good enough for 'Merica.
Dissolve the dept of agriculture.
They already did. It's only there to handle bribe money.
We don't have to worry with crack agencies like ATF all over this!
Just look how effective they have been!
Ruby Ridge, WACO and of course F&F.
According to Ron Paul, all those agencies are unconstitutional. Unless it's interstate commerce, the military or foreign relations -- the power belongs to the states or the people.
The map also serves another useful purpose; knowing where the highest concentration of thin chicks are...
Arizona here I come!
It's a map of heart disease, not obesity. Trust me, while AZ isn't Mississippi-level obese, we haven't been left behind.
Just ban everything.
What's the caloric content of Soylent Green? Just wondering.
To calculate that, one must first know whether the livestock comes from the aisles of WalMart or Whole Foods.
If it's 'Merkin, it's the fattier kind. Like bacon chips.
Can we talk about the crap food being an issue yet?
We have done a 180,if you look at the foods that were consumed in the 1900's - 1960's, they were the least expensive, and the most healthy for us.
NOW, the prices of the same foods, are 10x's higher than the junk food people consume,try buying HEALTHY foods, and you will see quickly that most of the obesity is caused from being too poor to afford the OLD days cheap food, now OFF the charts.
Folks on food progs that are Gvt sponsored, two come to mind that are UNreal in their effects on obesity.
Pure Butter, and Peanut butter.They do not give the poor the expensive healthy foods.
Is it a bad thing to hope that karma intercedes & ALL the food fascists contract e-coli from bean sprouts & arugula?
Mother Nature taking care Her way.
Heart disease, etc., are the fat man's Sickle Cell
And no, may they all die painful self absorbed deaths from food poisoning.