This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Eric Sprott: Why Are Investors Buying 50 Times More Physical Silver Than Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

By Eric Sprott

Why are (Smart) Investors Buying 50 Times More Physical Silver than Gold?

As long-time students of precious metals investing, there are certain things we understand. One is that, historically, the availability ratio of silver to gold has had a direct influence on the price of the metals. The current availability ratio of physical silver to gold for investment purposes is approximately 3:1. So, why is it that investors are allocating their dollars to silver at a much higher ratio? What is it that these “smart” investors understand? Let’s have a look at the numbers and see if it’s time for investors to do as a wise man once said and “follow the money.”

Average annual gold mine production is approximately 80 million ounces, which together with an estimated average 50 million ounces of annual recycled gold, totals around 130 million ounces available per year. In comparison, annual mined silver production has averaged around 750 million ounces, while recycled silver is estimated at 250 million ounces per year, which adds up to approximately 1 billion ounces. Using this data, there is roughly 8 times more silver available to buy than there is gold. However, not all gold and silver is available for investment purposes, due to their use in industrial applications. It is estimated that for investment purposes (jewelry, bars and coins), the annual availability of gold is roughly 120 million ounces, and of silver it is 350 million ounces. Therefore, the ratio of physical silver availability to gold availability is 350/120, or ~3:1.1

Now, let’s examine how investors are allocating their investments between gold and silver. The data below is from the US Mint showing gold and silver sales in ounces:

Table1.gif
Source: US Mint (www.usmint.gov)

As you can see, investors are choosing to buy silver at a ratio to gold that is well above what is available. This uptrend doesn’t show any signs of slowing either. The ratio of the physical silver to gold is both rising and extraordinarily above the availability ratio of 3:1.

We can also use other data such as the most recent issues of the Sprott Physical Gold and Silver Trusts. The last Gold Trust issue in September 2012 raised US$393 million and the last Silver Trust issue raised US$310 million. On the basis of prices for each metal at the time of issue, we could purchase ~213 thousand ounces of gold and ~9.1 million ounces of silver. This represents a purchase ratio of 43:1.

If we examine ETF holdings in both gold and silver, we note that in the period from 2007 to 2012, the increase in silver holdings amounted to 12,000 tonnes, compared to 1,200 tonnes of gold – meaning, investors purchased ten times more silver than gold.

These are only three factual data points to consider, but there are other indications that silver investment demand is way out of line with availability. Our favourite question to the bullion dealers we meet, is to ask the ratio of their dollar sales in gold versus silver. The answer is that dollar sales are equal, which means that physical silver sales relative to gold are greater than 50:1.

A recent news headline on Mineweb read, “Silver Sales to Outshine Gold in India.2” It went on to quote a bullion dealer that “investors and jewelry lovers prefer silver jewelry these days.” As the largest importer of gold in the world, it would be impossible for India to purchase an equivalent amount of silver, as it would require more than one billion ounces, essentially more than the current annual mine production.

While these last two confirmations of silver demand are anecdotal, the statistics from the US Mint, the ETFs, and our Physical Trust issues, are factual.

For the time being, the silver price is essentially set in the paper market where the daily average trade on the Comex is approximately 300 million ounces. An outrageous number when you compare it to the daily mine production of about 2 million ounces. As Bart Chilton, Commissioner of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission stated on October 26, 2010, “I believe there have been repeated attempts to influence prices in silver markets. There have been fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control that price. Based on what I have been told and reviewed in publicly available documents, I believe violations to the Commodity Exchange Act have taken place in the silver market and any such violation of the law in this regard should be prosecuted.”3

Which brings us back to the phrase “Follow the money.” In our view, it is almost inconceivable that investors would allocate as many dollars to silver as they would to gold, but that is what the data shows.

The silver investment market is very small. While the dollar value of gold in the world approaches $9 trillion, the value of silver in the forms of jewelry, coins, bars and silverware is estimated at around $150 billion (5 billion ounces at $30 per ounce). This is a ratio of 60:1 in dollar terms.4

How long can investors continue to buy silver at the current ratios when the availability for investment is only 3:1? We are surprised that the price of silver has remained at such a depressed level compared to gold. Historically, the price ratio between gold and silver has been 16:1, when both were currencies. Today the ratio is 55:1, so what are the numbers telling us? We believe this is one of those times when smart investors will be well rewarded to “Follow the money.”

On behalf of all of us at Sprott, I wish you safe and happy Holidays and a prosperous New Year.

P.S. – US Mint Sold Out of Silver Eagle Bullion Coins Until January 7, 2013
The Mint recently informed authorized purchasers that all remaining inventories of 2012-dated Silver Eagle bullion coins had sold out and no additional coins would be struck. Since the 2013-dated coins will not be available to order until January 7, 2013, this leaves a three week void for the Mint’s most popular bullion offering.

1 Sources: Gold data is from World Gold Council www.gold.org, and silver data is from Silver Institute, http://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/
2 Source: Mineweb.com
3 Source: Bloomberg: http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-26/silver-market-faced-fraudulent-efforts-to-control-price-chilton-says.html
4 Sources: Gold data is from World Gold Council, silver data is from United States Geological Survey (USGS) and Silver Institute.
 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:41 | 3093724 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Silver, bitchez.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:46 | 3093736 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

Argento, Trojazze!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:10 | 3093776 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Silver, Bitchez. I was just thinking about that last night and how it is perhaps a better slogan for Zerohedge than "Gold, bitchez." More of an "I told you so fuckers." More to gain, more to break the back.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:41 | 3093799 margaris
margaris's picture

AΣHMI, PE MALAKEΣ!!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:47 | 3093818 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

That's easy for you to say...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:57 | 3093833 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Argent, chiennez!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:59 | 3093837 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

ribbit

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:55 | 3093905 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

The Coinage Act of 1792 establishes one dollar as 371 grains of pure silver.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792

Someone should challenge the Fed on issuing dollar denominated "Federal Reserve Notes" ( a note being a promise to pay) with no intention or ability to pay those dollars and with dollars that they conjure out of thin air by the trillions.  I am sure there is a legal term for that.

Note that the Wikipedia entry says there is no legal definition of "dollar" to be found in U.S. statute.  If that is the case, it would seem that the original definition should still stand unless specifically superseded.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 21:42 | 3094017 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Not content stealing Trillions, they are now printing and s-t-e-a-l-i-n-g $Quadrillions...

QUADFUCKINGDRILLIONS

and the sheeple are watching Charlie Sheen and drinking budwieser

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 00:08 | 3094175 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

I'm reading zh and drinking brandy. Is that better or worse?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 03:45 | 3094334 strannick
strannick's picture

Eric Sprott is a financial terrorist. God bless and keep him.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:23 | 3094396 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

We would have closed Gitmo......but it turns out we may still need it.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 15:07 | 3095002 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

A perfect place - Gitmo!

For who?

Every crooked Wall streeter and corrupt politician.

Will it ever happen?

Not a chance in hell!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:46 | 3095174 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Gitmo ain't nearly big enough... unless you divide it up into 3X7 foot plots.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 09:35 | 3095941 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

No kidding.  Breaking the strangle hold of the big banks, exposing the lies of central bankers, letting the average guy buy pms for his retirement account and becoming a billionaire in the process. 

 

Rather clever I'd say.  I hope he has a good security system and body guards. 

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 00:58 | 3094222 quadcap
quadcap's picture

You seem to think that the "laws" matter.  They don't any more, it's all about naked power now...  The sooner you grasp this, the better.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 06:38 | 3094373 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

Srebro, kurwa!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:37 | 3093971 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

.  

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 02:03 | 3094285 Matt
Matt's picture

"Why Are Investors Buying 50 Times More Physical Silver Than Gold?"

Is it because it is 50 times cheaper, and they buy equal $ worth of each?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 06:30 | 3094371 new game
new game's picture

or we are hedging one against the other. as silver ratio improves gold will be rotated to.

win fucking win stategy...

smack down has been a very merry x-mas present indeed. history repeating to the day!

but ah, colt to silver-thanks prez>you may even get my vote next time!

you are waking many sheeple from their slumber-thanx for that too.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 06:45 | 3094375 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

right, but there isn't 50 times more silver available in the earth's crust or for investment out of current production and recycling.  there is less, somewhere between 16 and 3 to 1.

a comment above about the definition of a dollar in silver as 371 grains or about .85 of an ounce, around $25.  have prices of labor, land, commodities, etc. increased more than 25 times since 1792?  if so, perhaps silver is a buy.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:38 | 3094400 Thomas
Thomas's picture

And the above ground stash of silver is near parity with gold. Silver could go totally nuts at some point.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:48 | 3095180 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Silver could go totally nuts but for the blatant manipulation of prices.

From the article:

"How long can investors continue to buy silver at the current ratios when the availability for investment is only 3:1? We are surprised that the price of silver has remained at such a depressed level compared to gold."

They are "surprised".  Right.  Sure they are.  Just too limp-wristed to jump into the conspiracy fray.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 09:38 | 3095944 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

I'm all for the manipulation.  I'm in the accumulation phase. 

 

I'm not a wealthy man, so the more silver I can get at fire sale prices, the better. 

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 11:41 | 3096196 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

"I'm not a wealthy man..."

 

You will be.....you will be.... Yoda

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 13:06 | 3094758 Matt
Matt's picture

I'm betting if the price ratio was 16:1 the article would be titled "Why are investors buying 16X as much silver as gold?"

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 10:42 | 3096041 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

I'm betting you only read the title, and not the content of the article that shows in previous years investors were buying less silver vs. gold as compared to today even when the GSR was higher than it is now. I'm also betting you are on the payroll.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:19 | 3095113 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

I've made it a habit to buy 50% of each often at the same time. I would buy more silver if it wasn't partly dependant on industrial use.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:43 | 3095166 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Eric Sprott is one of the greatest Gold and Silver Vigilantes of our time. A true patriot.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.ca/

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 09:39 | 3095947 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

But he's Canadian... It that possible?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:44 | 3095451 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

:-(  Doesn't work .

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:23 | 3093873 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

This is where I'll be spending my holiday cheer too!!

http://gunshowtrader.com/gun-shows/las-vegas-gun-show-crossroads/

Sadly, the NRA will be probably be slowly neutered this coming year so I expect this to be incredibily packed with everyone and their brother in law to make the pilgrimage from California here.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 00:23 | 3094193 Room 101
Room 101's picture

The NRA was neutered long ago.  It's a gun rights marketing organization, not a gun rights organization. The smaller, more active organizations like the Second Amendment Foundation, GOA, and VCDL are where the action is.

Attention thoughtcriminals! The guards, interrogators, and pain delivery specialists at the Ministry of Love wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas!  

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 02:07 | 3094289 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

The AWB hits Jan 28th with no warning. you heard it here first.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 04:54 | 3094347 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

This is just classic Shock Doctrine effect.  Ratched up the fear and then watch the sales hit the roof. 

Gun manufacturers love it when these mass shootings happen.  Great for profits.   

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 23:44 | 3094161 swanpoint
swanpoint's picture

Trav777 WHERE ARE YOU? .. I think Trav777 started that +2 years ago..

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:25 | 3094397 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

It's all funny until the blowtorch backfires.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:06 | 3094413 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

It only costs five bucks to dig it out of the fucking ground, right?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 00:56 | 3094220 qqqqtrader
qqqqtrader's picture

Yearly Home Prices...

in Gold & Silver

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 10:20 | 3094501 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

There's ALWAYS a SILVER Lining!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:46 | 3093738 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Silver Eagle production will NOT recontinue on January 7. 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:58 | 3093763 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Why? Does something happen between now and then?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:05 | 3093773 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Signs of a severe silver shortage. Yes, you can buy 100 or 1000 ounces. Now go buy a million and demand delivery before Jan 1. You can't.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:43 | 3093812 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Figures in the article are wrong, I believe - much more silver in the world - about 50 billion ounces, not 5 billion ounces - 5 billion is about the amount of gold in the world (160,000 metric tonnes, each tonne about 32,000 troy ounces) ...

The amount of silver that exists in the world is about 10:1 versus gold, thus interesting the price ratio has often been set at around 15:1

At $30 US fiatscos per ounce, that makes about $1.5 trillion Bernanke Bux price for silver in the world ...

But as it reads now, Sprott writes:

« The silver investment market is very small. While the dollar value of gold in the world approaches $9 trillion, the value of silver in the forms of jewelry, coins, bars and silverware is estimated at around $150 billion (5 billion ounces at $30 per ounce). »

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:39 | 3093903 tmosley
tmosley's picture

50 billion ounces?  The 1950's called, they want their above ground silver statistics back.

Also, the article is talking about flow, rather than stock.  Both, of course, are important to the price.  Both are also extraordinarily bullish.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:03 | 3093917 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Industry estimates indicate about 30 billion oz. of silver mined throughout history.

Most of that is in garbage dumps now.

The 5 billion oz. is an estimate of silver that is intact above ground.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 21:14 | 3094005 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

"Most of that is in garbage dumps now.

The 5 billion oz. is an estimate of silver that is intact above ground."

 

You, sir, are correct.

There is a reason the world's silver stockpile from the 70's has disappeared: industry. Silver has many industrial uses, which typically use the metal up in a nonrecoverable form. It isn't just photography. Solar panels, dentistry, optics, and especially medicine. Silver is toxic to many forms of bacteria, viruses, fubgi, etc. It is a natural germicide (like most heavy metals). Unlike Mercury, however, it is not toxic to humans. Once silver gets put into most medical forms (i.e. - catheters, socks, etc) those get thrown out and ARE NOT RECOVERED. Silver, as an industrial metal, is not typically recovered.

This is why the above ground silver supply no longer matches the amount historically mined (unlike gold).

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 02:21 | 3094297 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

A significant percentage of the silver that is uneconomic to recover at current CRIMEX spot prices (illegally suppressed by the US government via JPM etc.) would be recoverable at an un-supressed free matket price.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:42 | 3094403 Thomas
Thomas's picture

That's not really true (I think). At some point the energy alone will prevent recovery of the silver. Analogy is helium. Once helium ends up in the air, it's gone.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:59 | 3094463 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

Example of each:

Uneconomic to recover at any price = anti-microbial silver in medical disposables.

Uneconomic to recover at $30/oz, but economic to recover at $1000/oz, silver in cellphones.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 14:52 | 3094969 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Silver is also uneconomic to recover from the LBMA and the COMEX because there is almost none there compared to the hundreds of claims per oz. on the unallocated accounts.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 10:45 | 3096048 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

I'd like to see somebody estimate how high the price of silver would have to go for it to be profitable to dig through landfills for cell phones and break them down. By the time it does become profitable to do so the minimum wage will probably be double what it is now to boot.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 11:51 | 3094652 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Big difference.  Helium LEAVES THE PLANET.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:50 | 3095461 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

String instruments - strings & frets . Lot of silver dumped ....

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:50 | 3093915 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There may be 10 times as much silver as gold in the ground naturally, but silver gets used up; gold doesn't.  There is not 10 times as much silver above ground as gold.  There's probably about the same.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:11 | 3093853 Freddie
Freddie's picture

There is a severe .223 ammo and PMag shortage for AR's.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:12 | 3094046 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

You can still get em - just have to pay (at least) 4X as much.  Price gouging laws don't apply to us filthy gun nuts.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:34 | 3094398 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yeah....but that was last week. There is nothing out there now. While the politicians were playing....America was quietly arming herself.

 

Lead tiimes for 5.56 FMJ's are now late March....but only girls use that crap.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:57 | 3095184 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

CheaperThanDirt doubled the prices of 30rnd .223 mags.

So much for cheaper than dirt.  I'm not buying there any more.

Renaming the place GreedierThanShit.  Yeah, I know.  Free markets and all that.  They would have made their nut on the stock on hand, and sold out quickly.  That's fine.  ProMag put out a notice that they were NOT increasing the prices on any of their products.  Gouging the customers on existing inventory is simple greed.  I've had about enough of that.  All they had to do was put a limit, say three, for existing customers.  Easy stuff.  

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:21 | 3096495 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

I'm not so upset with CTD for raising prices.  That's one way to ration scarce goods and higher prices encourages higher production.  I don't like the higher prices, but higher prices do serve a useful function.

Pulling their firearms is a different matter.  THAT really demonstrates their character (or lack thereof) in my book.  CTD will need to work pretty hard to get any of my future business.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 02:16 | 3094295 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

normal yearly transition between 2012-2013 minages shutdown. Changes strike plates, maintenace of facilities, etc...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:42 | 3093907 James
James's picture

"Silver Eagle production will NOT recontinue on January 7"

 

 

 

Is'nt that just the discontinue of production @ San Francisco Mint?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:02 | 3093935 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

that would be strange, didn't they only just start minting ASEs in SF in 2011?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:41 | 3093978 James
James's picture

aphlaque-Went to look on this and I was wrong.

S.F. just stopped production of 2012 silver Eagles early.

They will be producing 2013.

My bad.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:18 | 3094054 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

Anything, link, whatever to back up this. Proof? If this is true I would go Wed and buy a couple more boxes at the price it's at today and give myself a nice Christmas gift

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:01 | 3094032 eXMachina
eXMachina's picture

Tungsten, bitchez?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:47 | 3094093 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

The problem with silver is that it has industrial use.

So if the economy slows, the price can go down.

If you insist on holding metal, gold is still your best bet.

http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2012/12/yesterday-i-hiked-five-miles-...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 23:11 | 3094123 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

another prob with silver is, when the spot price gets to $50 every cunt on the planet. including Mr. " it should be 16:1 ratio " sprott . Sells their fucking stack

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 06:08 | 3094365 Western
Western's picture

To more buyers, idiot.

 

Unless you're claiming there's going to be "so many sellers" that the market goes "bidless".

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:54 | 3094456 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

well thats exactlly what happened back at $50, it went bidless and fell back to $26.

 

and the more buyers where being sucked into buying on claims " to the moon and over $100 " when the econ gets moving is the time to buy. silver is still more industrial than investment.

theres less platinum than gold to, WTF is that doing under the price of gold? and it dont get hoared so there is fuck all  left in stock piles! to the fucken moon i say.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 04:19 | 3101066 Western
Western's picture

of course the market was bidless when someone is looking to unload 10% of the world's yearly mined supply AT THE FUCKING CRACK OF MIDNIGHT WHEN NOBODY IS TRADING.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:54 | 3094457 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

well thats exactlly what happened back at $50, it went bidless and fell back to $26.

 

and the more buyers where being sucked into buying on claims " to the moon and over $100 " when the econ gets moving is the time to buy. silver is still more industrial than investment.

theres less platinum than gold to, WTF is that doing under the price of gold? and it dont get hoared so there is fuck all  left in stock piles! to the fucken moon i say.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:55 | 3094459 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

oh yeah idiot.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 10:55 | 3096057 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Considering gold and more so silver are the most manipulated markets in the entire world, if silver does break the old high of $50 it will be because the central planners lost control, in which case their debt based monetary system will be going the way of the dinosaur. Anybody with a clue knows they won't let $50 be breached if they can help it since it would wake too many people up, and there is no resistance above that mark. Feel free to sell into a hyperinflating failing currency, calling other people idiots as you crash and burn.

If silver were fair value today strictly based on supply and demand, and gold price did not budge, silver would be well over $200/oz. It doesn't matter what the paper price says. We can buy on the cheap until they deplete the supply. After that it's a new ball game.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:13 | 3095422 elementary
elementary's picture

Glad I got mine at $4.50 per ounce. Nuf said.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 10:51 | 3096068 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

Junk silver, bitches

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:42 | 3093726 Jason T
Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:51 | 3093752 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

I remember that abominable snowman scared the shit out of me when i was a kid. He was one scary fucker.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me4a6dTZB71rf1v32o1_1280.jpg

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:57 | 3093760 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

Nice.  My wife laughs at me because of this whenever we watch this with the kids.  My favorite song!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 03:30 | 3094327 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

My favorite gift, giving and receiving.

If my coin shop was up on marketing, they would loop that video and play it through out the year.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:44 | 3093730 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

Silver Bells, Silver Bells

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:44 | 3093732 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Price?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:46 | 3093734 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

$500 - If you want it.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:12 | 3093780 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

I don't care what the spot price is now, if anyone wants mine at the moment be prepared to pay $100 per troy ounce out of my stash.

Otherwise it aint going to leave my house.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:42 | 3093810 mwarden
mwarden's picture

hey, then i have a great deal for you. i will sell you silver for just $90/oz, which is a full 10% discount to what you value it

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:04 | 3093937 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Why would someone buy silver from you at that price, when there are legions of fools willing to sell it for less than that?

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:07 | 3094042 mwarden
mwarden's picture

um, yes. exactly. please re-read my comment with sarcastic mockery in mind.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:56 | 3093925 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

You might want to think about losing it in a boating accident before you go shooting your mouth off.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:46 | 3093733 Banjo
Banjo's picture

SILVER BITCHEZ !!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:47 | 3093741 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

Plata, Cavron!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:52 | 3093822 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Silver, Hyndor!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:53 | 3093920 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Zilver, teefjes!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 23:52 | 3094165 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Revlis, Zehctib.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 07:46 | 3094389 inzider84
inzider84's picture

Sølv, Kællinger!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 13:26 | 3094791 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Fidda, Charmout !!!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:49 | 3093739 Silver_K-9
Silver_K-9's picture

No offer for mine!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:47 | 3093740 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

The ratio actually reached 75 oz of silver sold by the Mint for every ounce of gold for several consecutive months this summer.
Alasdair Macleod states that the silver demand is about to come to an aprupt head, as he says a COMEX silver default is likely to occur soon.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/alasdair-macleod-we-are-quite-likely-to-hav...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:14 | 3093782 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

meaning what exactly?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:39 | 3093803 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Likely the implosion of the silver derivative market. And when one derivatives market goes... well... they all do.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:34 | 3093895 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

please go on, when it implodes, then what?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:05 | 3093939 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Paper silver goes bust. Real silver skyrockets.

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:20 | 3093956 seek
seek's picture

We get true price discovery.

The paper metals market and derivatives are used to actively interfere with price discover of silver (and also gold). Silver is much more overexposed and manipulated via these mechanism, and the presumption is when actual price discover happens, we'll see silver's price rise significantly. Some of the figures proposed are difficult to believe outside of a full dollar collapse ($500+/oz), but for it to double or more from where it is today would be trivial (indeed, if it adjusted to the historical 17:1 pricing with gold, silver would be roughly $100/oz, or basically triple the current price.)

The discovered price could be more or less, but the key is it'd be a true, unmanipulated price on physical. We don't have that now. This is why everyone here keeps saying silver's on sale.

When this does happen, however, we'll likely see at least one major bank (JPM) require some sort of extraordinary support. Probably covert support in this case.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:55 | 3093993 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I really like reading anything that seek writes.  I would urge everyone here at ZH to study his comments too.

 

+ a million (?)

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:33 | 3093893 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

When Comex silver implodes, so does the paper market for silver.

That means those holding paper certificates instead of actual silver will be cashed out at the cash price of their holdings at the time of the crash. Then trading in silver will be halted for awhile while the world figures out the REAL price of REAL silver.

You won't be able to buy silver from the usual markets until the dust settles. And when said dust has found a resting place, silver will be priced much higher. That's because the price will be based on the actual amount of silver metal in circulation, rather than the inflated amount of silver paper that has suddenly been turned into paper money instead.

There will be a worldwide sucking sound as the value of money shrinks when compared to the value of silver metal.

Whether this will be a big enough vortex to suck in the fake gold as the same time is anybody's guess. As a silver holder, I'm hoping silver goes first. Then I can use the greatly impoved Gold:Silver ratio to swap some of my silver for gold. After that, one can sit smugly and wait for the inevitible gold crash.

But with my luck, they'll rip open at the same time. Still, it's nice to be able to fondle large amounts of real silver. It's real wealth, not a promise of real wealth.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:35 | 3093897 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Thank you!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 12:23 | 3094694 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Good comments, but the squid bankers know all that and so they call in some favors from their pals in DC and make it so that the serfs need to turn in all their precious metals...for the children. I mean it's only fair. 

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 19:27 | 3095370 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Just like a banker, I have confidence that there is a way around any confiscation laws. You just have to be willing to be creative, with the cooperation of other creative people.

Not only have I been known to break the law by driving a little too fast, but I have also been known to not come to a complete stop at some stop signs when nobody's looking.

Da Boyz can pass laws to confiscate any or all of our stuff. I don't see any reason to pick specifically on PMs, now that they're not backing the currency. Better to confiscate real estate, which is much harder to lose in a boating accident.

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:48 | 3093742 stant
stant's picture

silver and ar 15 for xmas

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:48 | 3093745 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

BUY GOLD & SILVER.

Merry Christmas to all my fellow ZHers!

Peace and Aloha...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:52 | 3093990 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

To you too, Bay!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 16:11 | 3095067 yabyum
yabyum's picture

DO&BAY MERRY CHRISMAS to both of you, Hedgeless, whats for dinner ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:48 | 3093746 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

1700/55 = 30.9

1700/16 = 106.25

bitchez

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:37 | 3093900 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Like I said above, you can't have mine for less than $100 :) Ill buy at $30 all day long

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:46 | 3093986 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

10000/10 = 1000, which is the minumum that gold, silver, and the gold/silver ratio will go to when the bond/credit/fiat/housing/service sector/government/entitlement bubble bursts.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:50 | 3093751 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

AR-15 + Silver Bullets = death to vampire banksters

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:53 | 3093754 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

The fraud that has priced silver continues. It should be a criminal act to trade futures well beyond the available supply.

When are we going to demand that the CFTC be prosecuted for failing to do their job? Or does this shit just continue ad infinitum? Just like fractional lending and our insolvent banking structure...when it implodes will the American taxpayer be asked to bail the bullion banks out too?

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:57 | 3093762 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

It's gonna blow up one day regardless, then Blythe the Wicked Witch of the West, and Jamie "Making Markets" Dimon will be left holding the (empty) bag. Until then, be glad we're getting it at a discount.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:58 | 3093996 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

At which time the scapegoating will begin. Can you say "blame it on capitalists who might crawl out from under a rock and slime you with their greed?" Those greedy speculators. Better leave it to government to straight up steal from the rich because people don't deserve to keep what they earn. Then we really get to see what it's like to live in a world in which creating wealth is punished  and destroying wealth is celebrated.

Riots at home coordinated by central planners, war overseas coordinated by central planners, all so the collapse of the worldwide fiat monetary ponzi is anybody else's fault other than the central planners' who created and perpetuated the ponzi.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:17 | 3094052 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Wealth is a relative thing.  Billionaires rarely retire.  Fabulous wealth is even more fabulous if you can reduce the wealth of other people.  So this becomes their new mission, and is why most of them are Democrats.  Of course, they love to frequent charity balls also, to prove to the world their unselfishness.     

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:38 | 3094080 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

You seem to think like one of those Democrats (or Republicans, I guess, because today they're pretty much the same thing now). I say this because socialists tend to think that wealth cannot be created or destroyed, it just is. And your saying that it's not about the absolute, but about the relative. Poor people today have much more wealth than most rich people 3000 years ago.

If you are "wealthy," than you have control of more resources than most others. However, wealth is absolute. Wealth is how many resources you have control over. Period. Therefore, the only way to gain a truly ridiculous amount of wealth is not only to control of a large share of resources in the world, but to also grow the wealth pie of the world.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 03:25 | 3094324 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

I used to think that also, until i lived in a second world country.  For example, the poverty level in the US for a family of 4 is around $23,000.  People living below this level feel poor, oppressed, downtrodden, and in general are not happy about their situation.  The World Bank defines MODERATE poverty, worldwide as around $700 per year.  In some places, there is a lot of envy towards people making $7,000 per year, and some of those big spenders feel pretty smug about their situation.  I think wealth, in the minds of those who dovote their lives to it, is relative, not absolute.  It's all about having more than your neighbor. 

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 13:21 | 3094783 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The fact that people are basically idiots and tend to be happier if they are wealthier than their neighbor is pretty well known. But this is not all that matters and it's definitely not what it's all about. The stupidity of some gives no excuse to not advocate improving the world.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 11:58 | 3094657 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     Wealth is how many resources you have control over. Period. Therefore, the only way to gain a truly ridiculous amount of wealth is not only to control of a large share of resources in the world, but to also grow the wealth pie of the world.

If that's the case, what part of the current "wealth pie" can be attributed to Warren Buffet, George Soros, and the Walton family?

How much of "the world's resources" would not exist if not for those guys' actions?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 17:07 | 3095200 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That depends upon how you define "resource" I suppose.   Silver and oil are resources.  Are iCrap and plastic Christmas trees?  Resources, chattel, junk, whatever. 

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 21:39 | 3095518 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I think technically it's an argument with a missing middle.  I'd say the assertion that the "only way" to be wealthy is to "produce" resources is so obviously false it needn't be disproven, but I was hoping he might try to support that claim somehow.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:18 | 3093861 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

Um, demand how?  Plenty of e-mails/calls to the CFTC, congresscritters, TWH, all to the sound of <crickets>.   The media sings a chorus of <crickets> on this too.

We live in a "Democracy", which apparently means we get to go through the motions of "voting" for one offered evil or another, people who then, "represent" us by doing what they want when they want to whomever they want. 

Our system has 0 recourse, and 0 accountability.   Demanding is akin to wishing in terms of its effectiveness...

 

As for criminal standard (what is right as defined by the State), how about just using a moral standard (what is right as defined by individuals)?  I think it is immoral to sell/lend something you don't own.  Period.  So get rid of shorting and fractional reserve banking.   If farmers/producers still need to mitigate risk, then *they* can sell options on their crops/production on the likely chance of them coming in.  The finance wiz-kid has no need to do the same.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:24 | 3093960 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

 "The finance wiz-kid has no need to do the same."

Not true It is the only thing they can do. That's where the Wiz come in.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 11:01 | 3094580 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

If all the wiz-kid can do is sell what he does not have, then he should stop acting like a criminal and get a real job.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 03:55 | 3094310 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

When are we going to demand that the CFTC be prosecuted for failing to do their job? "... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Vote with your wallet. Buy and Hold Physical Silver.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 10:24 | 3094513 auric1234
auric1234's picture

when it implodes will the American taxpayer be asked to bail the bullion banks out too?

No, this bailout is actually impossible.Taxpayers can't be forced to produce silver out of thin air. If there ain't enough metal, there ain't enough metal.

Ah, the beauty of honest money.

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:58 | 3093764 therealmonty
therealmonty's picture

Don't Corzine me bro!!

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 17:59 | 3093766 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

I have just recently noticed certain "silver eagles" are not obtainable until Jan 17th. Not sure I have seen that in the last 6 months. WTF

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 10:27 | 3094516 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I just took delivery of my monthly stash yesterday and it included some silver eagles.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:02 | 3093769 devo
devo's picture

My allocation is more dollars in gold, more oz in silver.

I think this is smart. We'll see.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 20:58 | 3093995 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

My holdings are similar.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 21:53 | 3094029 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Approx. 1:10 weight-wise here

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 11:06 | 3094593 sampo
sampo's picture

Approx. 1:4000 weight - wise here, and holding way over an ounce of gold..

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 13:51 | 3094841 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Exacly 1:17,815057283 weight-wise here

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:08 | 3094043 seataka
seataka's picture

Many Vietnamese escaped the fall of Saigon to come to America only because they had gold, after the currency became worthless...

The proper gold to silver ratio for a realist is determined by the SHTF definition of wealth, which is what you can carry on your back at a dead run...

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:05 | 3093772 Silversinner
Silversinner's picture

Artificially low prices drives up physical demand.

Me calling coin shop and order silver ounces

after big cartel raid.econ 101.

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:11 | 3093777 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Silver is a smoking good deal right now! Down just over 13% from the start of December. I'm buying and averaging in.

 This is a great time for people do do some catch up on both Gold & Silver. Even if the Fiscal Cliff issues deteriorate further, I'll just continue to add. XAU weekly chart is at the 50% Fibi. of the move [1,526.927-1,795.851] 100 week M/A comes in around 1594.oo.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:12 | 3093779 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

I get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I see a silver eagle or gold eagle with that word "liberty" and that "one dollar" and the soaring eagle and all.

 

I know the goverment that represents "the people" and is paid to do so "by the people" has "the peoples (sheeples) best interest in mind.

 

Why would ones own goverment that is supposed to help ones own citizens,instead continuely decieve its people by putting the word "one dollar" on a silver eagle and "fifty dollars" on an gold eagle...when they are worth considerably more....?

Some how I get the feeling"the goverment is not your friend".

Oh ya....hows that silver manipulation investingation thingy going...????...to yous CFTC readers of the hedge.

Ya thats what I thought.

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:31 | 3093795 margaris
margaris's picture

well government will never admit that inflation exists...

that's why they still calculate with the $ price from 1.5 centuries ago.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 19:49 | 3093912 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Understandable. But just in case they do something funny, you can always melt it and sell it as a commodity.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 22:14 | 3094048 seataka
seataka's picture

 Days before the Continental Army attacked the hired german mercenaries at Valley Forge, most of the men's enlistments had expired, they wanted to go home, tend their farms, be with their family, and it was dreadfully cold outside... they were preparing to leave and then a wagon arrived from Philadelphia, with a chest full of gold coin to pay the Continental Army their agreed upon wages.

1 chest of gold coin saved the American Revolution.

 

 

 

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 14:04 | 3094878 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"I get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I see a silver eagle or gold eagle with that word "liberty" and...."

 

A comming collectors item? - Freedom...and its gone

 

"Freedom are now just a thing of the past ... Children just aren't going to know what freedom is," he said"

"David Parker, at the Hadley Centre for Freedom Prediction and Research in Berkshire, says ultimately, British children could have only virtual experience of Freedom. Via the internet, they might wonder at Freedom scenes - or eventually "feel" virtual Freedom"

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-...

 

 

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:14 | 3093783 jeff314
jeff314's picture

Argent salope

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:21 | 3093789 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

got some silver and gold buried somewhere on this property, just can't remember what I did with that map!MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:17 | 3094393 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Me too. Plus a decent number of .223 in shrink wrap bags.

Mon, 12/24/2012 - 18:26 | 3093792 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The poor man's gold is living up to its reputation.

Hopefully its a sign that the sheeple are waking up ,and buying what they can afford.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!