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The Real Crisis: "People Have Lost Trust In The Government And The Market"

Tyler Durden's picture


The death of the 'cult of equities' was a popular topic this year among both fringe blogs and the best-known institutional asset managers and sell-side strategists. As AP discusses in this excellent article, ordinary Americans - defying decades of investment history - are selling stocks for a fifth year in a row. It's the first time ordinary folks have sold during a sustained bull market since relevant records were first kept during World War II. The answer is both complex and simple but summed up best by a former stock analyst's comment that in order to buy stocks "You have to trust your government. You have to trust other governments. You have to trust Wall Street, and I don't trust any of these." With Fed policy trying to force investors back into stocks (at any cost), a former fund manager notes, presciently that, "When this policy fails, as it will, baby boomers will pay the cost in their 401(k)s." Are we the new 'Depression Babies'? We suspect so.


Investors, as you well know, are leaving the equity markets in droves...

Based on AP's calculations, individuals accounted for 40 percent to 50 percent of money going to U.S. stock ETFs in recent years.


If you assume 50 percent, individual investors have put $194 billion into U.S. stock ETFs since April 2007. But they've also pulled out much more from mutual funds - $580 billion. The difference is $386 billion, the amount individuals have pulled out of stock funds in all.


If you include the sale of stocks by individuals from brokerage accounts, which is not included in the fund data, the outflow could be much higher.

But why are investors not buying the propaganda this time and jumping in with both hands and feet...

"You have to trust your government. You have to trust other governments. You have to trust Wall Street," says Neitlich, 47. "And I don't trust any of these."


Defying decades of investment history, ordinary Americans are selling stocks for a fifth year in a row. The selling has not let up despite unprecedented measures by the Federal Reserve to persuade people to buy and the come-hither allure of a levitating market. Stock prices have doubled from March 2009, their low point during the Great Recession.


It's the first time ordinary folks have sold during a sustained bull market since relevant records were first kept during World War II, an examination by The Associated Press has found.


"People don't trust the market anymore," says financial historian Charles Geisst of Manhattan College. He says a "crisis of confidence" similar to one after the Crash of 1929 will keep people away from stocks for a generation or more.

What is at the core of this mistrust or doubt?

People who think the market will snap back to normal are underestimating how much the Great Recession scared investors, says Ulrike Malmendier, an economist who has studied the effect of the Great Depression on attitudes toward stocks.


She says people are ignoring something called the "experience effect," or the tendency to place great weight on what you most recently went through in deciding how much financial risk to take, even if it runs counter to logic. Extrapolating from her research on "Depression Babies," the title of a 2010 paper (embedded below) she co-wrote, she says many young investors won't fully embrace stocks again for another two decades.


"The Great Recession will have a lasting impact beyond what a standard economic model would predict,"

But it's not just ordinary folks, its professional investors too...

Public pension funds have cut stocks from 71 percent of their holdings before the recession to 66 percent last year, breaking at least 40 years of generally rising stock allocations

as old 'lessons' or myths are dismissed...

And old assumptions about stocks are being tested. One investing gospel is that because stocks generally rise in price, companies don't need to raise their quarterly cash dividends much to attract buyers. But companies are increasing them lately.


Dividends in the S&P 500 rose 11 percent in the 12 months through September, and the number of companies choosing to raise them is the highest in at least 20 years, according to FactSet, a financial data provider. Stocks now throw off more cash in dividends than U.S. government bonds do in interest.


Many on Wall Street think this is an unnatural state that cannot last.

As it seems, for once, a positive lesson is being learned...

"People aren't looking to swing for the fences anymore," says Gary Goldstein, an executive recruiter on Wall Street, referring to the bankers and traders he helps get jobs. "They're getting less greedy."


The lack of greed is remarkable given how much official U.S. policy is designed to stoke it.

But the powers that be are not happy about it...

"Fed policy is trying to suck people into risky assets when they shouldn't be there," says Michael Harrington, 58, a former investment fund manager who says he is largely out of stocks. "When this policy fails, as it will, baby boomers will pay the cost in their 401(k)s."

So, what are 'smart' retail investors doing with their money?

Instead of using extra cash to buy stocks, he is buying houses near his home in Sarasota, Fla., and renting them. He says he prefers real estate because it's local and is something he can "control." He says stocks make up 12 percent his $800,000 investment portfolio, down from nearly 100 percent a few years ago.


After the dot-com crash, it seemed as if "things would turn around. Now, I don't know," Neitlich says. "The risks are bigger than before."


Source: AP

Depression Babies paper embedded below:



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Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:21 | 3100686 NemoDeNovo
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Its about time.....

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:36 | 3100736 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture
Demand Celebrities Go F*ck Themselves [Extended Cut]  
Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:05 | 3100824 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

For those unaware, here is the current situation
- .gov and msm are losing their grasp of popular opinion
- msm serves one primary purpose which is to shape main stream opinion
- msm has complete disregard for the truth, the truth is a nebulous concept theyar

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:08 | 3100832 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

It seems I am getting ddos attacked.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:03 | 3100930 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

ot --

finally, an easy-to-understand video about where money comes from

kopiluwak dollars

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:28 | 3100962 Thomas
Thomas's picture

The article seems to imply that the lack of trust is now unfounded. Maybe I am reading too much into it. I am, however, beyond confident that the government and market currently are unworthy of trust. At some point they may get cleaned up and then the lack of trust will be unwarranted. It's not that your wife can't be trusted; it's that she is banging your neighbor right now.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:47 | 3100982 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is from a group in Cambridge, MA. Would you trust anything out of there?  I would not.  Like trusting Teddy Kennedy to drive you home if you were a pregnant intern named Mary Jo.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:54 | 3100987 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Anecdotal story:

Today, my checks from cashing out all of my retirement cleared. I payed off a huge pile of debts. I have a very stable job and lots of extra cash flow, most of which will go to debts until they are zeroed out.

After that, I will very likely never borrow again. I pay cash, or I do without.

After getting screwed by the "retirement system" twice now, I will never put money into a 401k, IRA, etc ever again. Eventually I may buy some assets, some stocks, some bonds, whatever, but it will NOT be in any sort of retirement account structure.

From now on, my savings is MINE mother fuckers.



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:16 | 3101005 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

the yin and yang of cash and bonds

eternal cycle of life and health

and every year is the year of the dog

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:28 | 3101021 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

oh shit

left out the role of other buyers


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 07:47 | 3101151 strannick
strannick's picture

With regulators like the CFTC, who needs Madoff's...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 03:06 | 3101045 August
August's picture

Wise you are, O Cooter.  I recently cleared out all my retirement accounts... and it feels good. 


It's really not good to have a "partner" in investing who can raise his percentage of ownership any time he feels the need to do so.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:21 | 3101579 CPL
CPL's picture

Weird how people miss that point.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 05:58 | 3101118 Rip van Wrinkle
Rip van Wrinkle's picture

Think yourself lucky, Crazy. In the UK, once your money goes into a pension, that's it. You can't get it out until you're 55 and, even then, only on the basis that at least 75% of the fund goes to buy a pension.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 08:04 | 3101162 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture


Thats only the half of it.Compare the open market annuity rayes to the

only ones you are allowed to buy with that pension 'fund'.

You will puke blood at the difference in income.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 08:41 | 3101195 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



In the UK, once your money goes into a pension, that's it.

Think that's bad?  401k's here will be confiscated completely.  Poof, it's gone.

I tell people cash out their 401k before govt grabs it, and they look at me like I'm crazy.

Fine, I won't say anything about it anymore.  Let 'em get wiped out.  Dumbass sheep.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 06:58 | 3101136 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Had a similar experience two weeks ago. Cashed out my IRA but call me, errr overly cautious, I cashed it on their bank, not mine.

I went in and said I have a check drawn on PNC, they said let me run it through but we don't have the cash on hand, it'll be Friday before we do...I'll put you on the list.

They have a list of people making large cash withdrawls? Interesting. (I said to myself).

I said fine. It cleared, I walked back out with the check & returned Friday.

They counted it out and then asked if I needed someone to walk me out. I replied, all I have to do is make it ten feet to that vehicle right there and I'll be fine...she just smiled.

I'll hold back for taxes & the penalty, the rest will probably wind up lost in another unfortunate boating accident which I seem to be prone to ;-)

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:24 | 3101593 CPL
CPL's picture

Taxes and Penalty > complete and total loss.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:52 | 3101718 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Taxes and Penalty < complete and total loss.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:52 | 3101711 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You'll need to pay estimated taxes at quarter end or face additional penalties...  talk with your accountant about whether you're ahead for the year and you might not face any penalties for failure to pay up before april 15.  Also, something that tends to get a few people is the STATE penalty...  ours is 1%...  everyone focuses on the 10% federal penalty for early withdrawal, but on big sums, every % point matters and tends to translate to a large amount.

[in short, you don't get to "hold back" unless you meet some pretty specific circumstances...  the IRS has closed that loophole (deferral) long ago].

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 09:20 | 3103351 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thanks for the advice/heads-up Macho.

Just spoke to Mrs. nmewn, she's going to run it by her CPA. Sounds like any estimated taxes due would have to be in by January 15.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 14:31 | 3109660 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yep, due at the quarter end...  the thing about estimated taxes also that gets quite a few people is that the quarters aren't all 3 months :-)

(you'd only be able to wait until april 15 if you didn't have to pay anything, sorry for the confusion).

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 12:27 | 3101823 jerry685
jerry685's picture

The banks are doing that to me also....I noticed they seem to want longer and longer to cash any 5 figure check...or larger

It went from 2 days to 5 so far....maybe the boating accident should happen before you pay taxes....just a thought

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:13 | 3100846 CH1
CH1's picture

- .gov and msm are losing their grasp of popular opinion

Apparently they are fighting back....

Their Facebook division just blocked a bunch of pro-freedom sites:

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:59 | 3100990 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

There is a problem when everyone can freely exchange ideas with everyone else. If you want the long timeline version (with billions of deaths between here and there) you can read this:

As recently noted by CHS, most people are kind, gentle creatures. The traditional schemes to control and manipulate them begin to fail in an open environment of information exchange. If the internet does not go down, in total, then really positive changes will be inevitable I think. Going to be a very rough spot in history though.



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:21 | 3101009 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

There's a risk the timeline is such that all of us writing in this thread will live the entire rest of our lives in a period of decline. Even if you have optimism that change will eventually come, it may be too late. Instead of taking a market clearing crash, after which a new start could begin, the old cronies in charge will defer it, creating decades or more of zombie world.

We are not the first here. At the end of various empires, there have been millions people living their entire lives in a dying empire. How did it feel to live in the decline of the Roman empire? How did the citizens of Teotuhican feel before it fell? You feel powerless because there is nothing you can do.

No investment choice can save you. Depending on how the manipulation goes, you may be screwed whatever you invest in, including gold and including not investing at all and holding cash.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:24 | 3101248 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Holy shit, guys. Have some faith. I intend to outrace the reaper for awhile. We are in a Darwinian phase punctuated equilibrium), but there are winners. I hope to be one.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:07 | 3101337 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

I sincerely hope you are right, Thomas.


But some empires literally took centuries to implode.


And you know what they say about timelines and survival rates...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:04 | 3101325 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Rather than invest in imaginary security - invest in real ones such as education for yourself (how do you make biodeisel?  Splint an arm?  Can vegitables?) and in your comminity (support networks, family and friends, not being an anonymous cardboard cutout that has no social consequences if taken from).

Decline doesn't have to equal misery!  I was over in Macedonia in the Army, and the one thing that always stuck in my mind was a group of kids playing.  No shoes, rags for clothes, skinny.  Still, they were laughing and playing like any other kids I've ever seen.  I don't think that it will be all roses, but it ain't roses now either.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:06 | 3101526 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

" thing that always stuck in my mind was a group of kids playing.  No shoes, rags for clothes, skinny. "

Well, that's one way to solve our overweight problem!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:02 | 3102434 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Sounds like Appalachia in the thirties. Not that long ago, or far away. Could be closer than you think, in the future too.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:09 | 3101329 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Period of decline yes, but not forever, kicking the can isn't free, there is a price to be paid.  In this case the price is destruction of the currency, same thing that happened in the Roman empire by the way.

Living on borrowing requires either (a) a productive economy you can keep borrowing from at higher interest rates, or (b) currency printing creating a larger pool of low interest "money" to borrow from. 

Since our economic productivity is shrinking while the govt is borrowing more and more, they're forced into option (b) currency printing with interest rates held artificially low, steadily debasing the currency. 

How long can it go on?  Till other nations say "enough" and start dumping our currency (and govt bonds). 

Bernanke can't control that.  He doesn't know when it will happen, but he knows it will happen, and it's what keeps him awake at night.



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:12 | 3101345 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Good points there, cranky.


But TBTF doesn't just apply to companies, it applies to countries too. This is why China hasn't collapsed the US economy already, the blowback would crush them too.


All countries are complicit in the scam now, the entire global financial system is the evil empire of which I speak.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:33 | 3101410 Cull Morgan
Cull Morgan's picture

Good doctor, your comment is as profound as it is depressing!

After we first wake up and realize how broken the world is, I think we all have a tendency to think things can't possibly continue this way much longer. However, without significant external enemies, a fading empire can last for quite a while.

Assume the best analogy to the history of the British, American and Chinese empires is the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman empires. The US today would then be Byzantium just past it's prime, with fairly good relations with a rising Ottoman empire. The transition of Byzantium from the respected elder of the Ottomans to their prison bitch took many generations. The inevitable end was masterfully delayed by the emperors from the Komnenos family.

My own middle-aged ass would probably be better off with a well-managed decline, but for the next generation I'm hoping for a reboot with better legal and monetary systems.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:48 | 3101464 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Great historical comparison there, CM, and you raise an interesting point regarding what proportion of the population would benefit from decline as opposed to reset.


Personally, I think a very small proportion of the population actually will benefit from decline, but that it is this small proportion that is in charge.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 12:05 | 3101767 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

A better legal system and monetary system is a redundant statement...  our monetary policy is the wellspring from which all other systems flow...  For example, if our monetary policy was different, would wallstreet get a free ride from prosecutors, aka settlements?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:08 | 3101223 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Good for you Cooter.  Hope you stacked some silver with all that money  Hopefully you will have enough to help others make it through the transition;  after all, in the end that's all your taking with you.  Regards.

Silver For The People

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:26 | 3101016 Freddie
Freddie's picture

F TV, Hollywood and the media.  They want to disarm you. 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 08:49 | 3101200 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

MSM liars and cheerleaders , losing their grip on the masses .... sounds like Pravda

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:30 | 3101255 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Related to this realization, you now are seeing the Gov't rapidly speeding up the transition to a police state. The laws stripping us of our constitutional rights are coming "fast and furious" now.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:26 | 3101603 aerojet
aerojet's picture

We just saw that with the massive gun control skirmish that just took place, mostly online--the MSM came out swingin and won some early victories, then the pro-gun crowd stormed the place and shot down all the stupid, re-treaded bullshit arguments against gun ownership.  I know that most people don't believe this, but I think the left is on the ropes in the US.  They look increasingly desperate to me.  The only reason Obama got re-elected is because Romney sucked ass.  The Republican Party is a dead letter, too--there's a massive shift about to take place in politics and it is not more leftward because the left has utterly failed and will be unable to expand their free-shit army any larger because we're at the tipping point where printing more fake money has no effect on anything anymore.  So without the ability to buy off union members and free-shit types, the left is finished.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:15 | 3100851 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

That's what I say.

Who's crazy enough to trust the markets and the government?

Nurse Ratchet for president!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:06 | 3100932 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Do the Muppets really need a 50 page study needed to tell them this shit?

How about just mentioning insider trading, quote stuffing, bid rigging, reverse trades, churning, naked shorting, FASB accounting rules suspended, Comex/LME/LIBOR rigging, ratings agency scams, robosigning and as an added bonus, the watchdogs at the SEC and DOJ are busy watching porn.

This list is far from complete, but should suffice.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:05 | 3101218 duo
duo's picture

Nice little plug at the end for real estate.  TPTB:  If you're not going to have money in the market, then buy overpriced real estate and help the banks.

That will work until the only tenants you can find will be Section 8 vouchers.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:29 | 3101617 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I laughed about the real estate plug.  How is that even remotely a controllable situation?  Renting out houses to dead beats is not, I repeat NOT an easy way to make money.  And housing values continue to plummet in most zip codes.  The best I can say about real estate is you may create a more favorable tax situation for yourself if you arrange things the right way.  But that's not exactly winning.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:52 | 3101715 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I guess people will learn a lesson after you've hit them over the head enough times.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:26 | 3100699 ShortTheUS
ShortTheUS's picture

Why the negativity, T-Dawg?

Don't you know we have to #rise above all this?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:27 | 3100706 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

People have done more than lost trust...........they are fucking pissed.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:01 | 3100813 CH1
CH1's picture

People have done more than lost trust...........they are fucking pissed.

I dunno... I see people who just sit there and take the pain... and do NOTHING.

A few talk... and do NOTHING else.

Why should the elite worry or slow down? No one ACTS, ever.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:10 | 3100834 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

Let's face it -- most are too stupid , err distracted to notice. When does next season of dancing w/ the stars start?

I could call them fucktards just for fun, but I will #riseabove /s



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:06 | 3100933 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Through a long train of abuses of the people by our Federal Government, there is no doubt now that we have a criminal Federal Government running our country and at war with American civilians.

This is why there will be an armed Insurrection against the Federal Government of the United States, removing and replacing it, by the American people.

We need to form a Star Chamber of individuals and military, to decide who in congress needs to be eliminated by force first, taken out JFK style.

David Wilcock & Drake 2012-03-28 1-3 Mass Arrests

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:22 | 3100950 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I've re-introduced the word "Insurrection" into our lexicon. Expect it to be widely used in media next year.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 04:53 | 3101084 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Tell us how your visit from the Feds goes.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 08:58 | 3101207 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Gee thanks.

Glad you're in charge.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:31 | 3101628 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You're being overly dramatic.  Rebellion would just destroy even more wealth.  A better way to rebel is to just have everyone walk away and tell .gov to go fuck itself.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:03 | 3100929 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

They vote them out but that doesn't work anymore cause it's not only rigged at the box, the media polls are rigged.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:05 | 3101524 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Tim McVeigh acted.  Just sayin.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:32 | 3101634 aerojet
aerojet's picture

And it was repugnant.  Which is why you don't do things like that until is is completely necessary.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:09 | 3100836 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Most investors I know simply say they will never send another dime to Wall Street.  They are buying distressed real estate instead.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:28 | 3100882 Spigot
Spigot's picture

People are selling to pay their mortgages while they roll off of long term unemployment. This is not about being smart sellers. People are cutting off an arm to save their lives.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:42 | 3101276 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

The next bubble.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:33 | 3101638 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Buying distressed RE is just as stupid as buying stocks.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:11 | 3100841 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

If you think this looks like lost trust just wait until Nancy and Diane get done with the attempt gun grab.

Yes what are we to think of the leadership of our great nation?

I cannot fathom the PTB wanting a 'civil war' as Matt Drudge called it (ie the possible response to a gun grab). How would that look to the rest of the world? How long will the currency stay stable if the crazies start car bombs and random shots fired (harmless but disruptive.)

I think the government has lost its way...and no I do not encourage or condone said actions, I mention them because I have a very dull imagination and even I could come up with these.

Some say that we could see 'martial law' but that looks even worse. Unless they (those ole PTB folks again) see some way to keep power when the very dollar they pay their stooges with goes to shit I really don't see the plan, nepharious or otherwise. These thoughts lead me to believe they really are as dumb as they seem and not backed by evil bankers , Illuminati or the Ananuki....of course I could be wrong...but I vote for 'dumb and confused'.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:07 | 3101533 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Yep, cuz r ledrs r smrt. Dey no gun cntrol werks.  Jist luk at shicago.,0,5456581.story

That is what you get with gun control....bitchez.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:35 | 3101647 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Based on what has been proposed in the Senate, I'm thinking the gun grab is going exactly nowhere.  I suppose if there is yet another mass shooting at just the right time, they might gain traction, but as it stands right now, what Feinstein wants would immediately cause a civil war if passed.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:39 | 3100889 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

People have done more than lost trust...........they are fucking pissed.

Not only are they pissed, they're scared. Scared of what's coming. The sheeple beginning to see the ugly that could occur.  That is what's fueling this gun/ammo/magazine run. No one wants to be unarmed when it hits the fan. Hell, my libtard DMV neighbor vcame over today to ask me about a good gun to buy. I pointed him to a Mossberg shotty which my BFF has a few in stock with some slugs stashed. Otherwise, his gun shop inventory is empty with no firm shipping dates from suppliers. He's taking two weeks off. Should note we are extremely rural here.

I've been reading lots of "purported" insider whistle blower reports lately. Not much different than those I've heard on occasion in the last 10 years but a lot more in quantity.Given all the loss of liberties in the last ten years, it starts to make sense to me. I wish I'd bought more ammo. lol

I cannot say these are valid but I'll give a few of the latest, for fears sake. Take them for what you will. The more knowledge about these reduces in the public the chances they will occur.

BTW, the mass shootings are not over. We will see more of them, especially little kids as they tug at the heartstrings of all of us. Fast and Furious, here in the US, to justify disarming the population. The PTB have no compunction about killin children. Remember that, when they come for you.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:50 | 3100910 prains
prains's picture

guns don't work against tanks

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:58 | 3100918 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I know several tank drivers. Trust me, the guns are not all going to be pointed our way.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:21 | 3100947 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

The handful of officers I know, think the same way.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:36 | 3100972 Solarman
Solarman's picture

Exactly, I am a former Active duty Marine Corps Officer, and I can say unequivocally that these orders will be refused as not lawful.  Most officers come from fly over country, and disdain the elites.  No way they can count on them.  Forget most cops too.  My dad is retired and old school, no way his brothers will shoot their own.


Besides you don't need to fight the elites with bullets, they need food from the farms in fly over country, and working ralroad tracks to get it there.  Do a little Sun Tzu on them.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:28 | 3101011 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture

Thank you Sir,

unconstitutional orders are not lawful orders and thereby must not be followed.

Semper Fi, Marines

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 03:39 | 3101056 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Well, congress hasn't declared war since 1941, so every service person in battle since WWII is violating the constitution.

What you don't understand is the elite won't say go shoot your neighbors for mouthing off.  They'll say those people are terrorists or traitors, supported by foreign governments to bring down our society.  And you know what, it will work.  It always has.  Viet Nam protester were shot at, and that was what the troops were lead to believe.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 03:50 | 3101058 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Exactly. Plus, look at history. Every single tyrannical government in the history of man has had the support of the cops and military. Why on earth would you believe cops and military would behave differently all of a sudden? A miracle? THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:18 | 3101238 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Some protesters were shot.  That was the tipping point for loss of public support of the war.  When it's discovered that these mass shootings are false flag, there will be backlash.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:14 | 3101559 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It will be more like the Civil War which was totally absurd.  When it first started, people came to watch and had picnics like it was a social outing.    It turned into a senseless nightmare and a war of northern domination and theft of resources, like most wars.  The difference today is everyone is armed with more effective weapons.

They will try to control the communications so no one will know what is going on.  They do it now with sh*t TV and hollywood plus the rest of the lying media.  They will also try to control the food.  Don't be suprised if they use biologicals and other nasties.  You know they will try to use drones too.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:50 | 3101298 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Communists call them "reactionaries."


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 05:20 | 3101103 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Do or die, Marines!


(But only if the orders are lawful.)

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 06:53 | 3101133 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

If you ever gamed against an OPFOR during FX, you can stop a tank.

But, most of my unit's stuff was CI.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 04:59 | 3101089 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

There are rumors that many of them have been sold executive suites in Deep Underground Bunkers. How does that saying go again? "A cave is a grave".

Maybe this IS the transition era from the age of chaos to the new golden age and by collecting a high percentage of schmucks in underground bunkers then destroying them the new age can begin with a fresh start.

By their actions, THEY seem more frightened and desperate than the people.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:14 | 3102199 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



I am a former Active duty Marine Corps Officer, and I can say unequivocally that these orders will be refused as not lawful.

Just one little problem with that thinking.  Military will be kept outside the US while 4+ million federalized domestic LE (mercenaries) point their weapons at Americans, as they do every day now.   Most have little or no comprehension of the Constitution, rights, etc.  Just knuckle-dragging moron mercenaries doing whatever they're told.

So carry on, keep fighting banker wars all over, terrorizing other nations.

Your hypocrisy is so obvious.

If you people really cared, you would have put a stop to this criminal govt a long time ago.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 12:01 | 3101745 aerojet
aerojet's picture

And that isn't the point at all.  The guns allow you to obtain other supplies.  Do I really need to spell it all out for you?  You storm a warehouse where anti-tank weaposn are stored.  Or just take over the depot where the tanks are stored.  How hard is that to understand? 

The Russians fought off German tanks with molotov cocktails.  And while today's tanks are more sophisticated, they are not invincible, which is why armies use combined arms strategies.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:50 | 3100983 Nadaclue
Nadaclue's picture


You really have no idea of the order of battle.Tanks must have infantry support. They are also worth shit against guerrillas.

Go home bud, you know not of what you speak.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:15 | 3101355 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

They aren't called missle magnets for nothing.  Besides, most modern warfare equipment require a pretty hefty supply line or it breaks down quickly.  You may have a tank, but it won't have fuel to operate.  Have fun with the hand cranks to move that turret. Why do you think the US is unchallenged?  Nobody has been able to take out the supply lines.  Yet.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 04:02 | 3101061 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Haka, you really have no idea do you?  Try recalling what happened in Iraq, IEDs, etc.

Unless you are thinking of the rather blunt Russian way?, For example, in the Chechen War, lacking anything 'precise' the Russian Army used tanks to take out the 'terrorists' one house at a time.  That failed, so they rolled in with the Artillery, and leveled whole fuckin' blocks and everything else.  Collateral damage took on a whole new level.

LOL you really think the US Army and the National Guard Units are all just going to follow 'orders' from these cunts if it comes to that?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 05:48 | 3101113 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

What exactly is the retirement package for a subject or slave again?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 09:49 | 3101296 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Random clearing of key politicians will make the rest come to heel.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:16 | 3101361 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Why do you think that hasn't already happened?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:24 | 3101382 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Because they haven't come for our retirement accounts, gold and silver. But they will.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:36 | 3102064 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

They've already got your accounts, so why don't you think they are already gone?  Because they haven't told you yet?  MFG was a dress rehersal on damage control.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:19 | 3101571 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Roman Senate was the problem in Rome.  The army was off on chickenshit nonsense to support the empire while the Senate F over Rome and it's citizens.  Totally corrupt.  Sound like another Senate?  Another Senate that wants to disarm you and who wants your retirement accounts, mags, ammo and precious metals?  

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 03:18 | 3101052 Freddie
Freddie's picture


I do not watch Tv or Hollywood because I loathe those people and they want to disarm us.   I saw on the web that one of them slipped up on MSNBC or CNN and roughly said "we thought after the shooting in Colorado that we could get guns banned but we needed another mass killing for people to finally wake up"   It is like both of therm were engineered - because they were.  A video on youtube on the CO shooting is pretty eye opening. The smirking FBI agent at the newsconference was just one of many disturbing issues.

I agree with you.  These mass shootings will keep happening like clockwork till they get the ban they want.  This was also to change the subject on the Bengazi gun running, ambassador and other CIA agents murdered with our own high tech mortars and our people left to die. They were backing Mo Bro Hood/Al qeada in Egypt, Libya and Syria.  plus the crap economy and rigged election. .

Iordered some ammo a week before the professional hit in CT where the men apprehended outside were released. I was going to order some extra newer gen mags with the ammo but delayed on the mags.  In days, the supply for PMags, Lancers, Troys and others on various (17 to 20) web sites disappeared.   Someone posted here that a small town in the NW central USA with a population of 2,000 sold out of 50 ARs in 2 hours!

Ammo, mags and guns are getting hard to find.  Even hand guns are selling out.  This is after 4 Oba years of an average if 15 million NIC checks or 15 million sales a year for 4 years.  The demand for guns, ammo and mags is still is astronomical and is not letting up.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:10 | 3101545 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture


If your neighbor is a statist POS you should have told him to go fuck himself and call his precious police state representative if he needs protection.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:28 | 3101612 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1 Alternatively, tell him to buy a real POS like a Jennings or something worse that would blow up in his hand.   This is happening all over by the way.  People who never wanted a gun are buying them.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:45 | 3100902 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

i dont think people are pissed - i think it is almost universally recognized that the information to move the market up or down is provided to certain people FIRST - and everyone else is last. Paulson sat down with 5 hedge fund managers in 2008 and asked them leading questions to point them in the right direction - they all knew the score and could bet with impunity....... massively

Plus all banking crimes have been recognized  - end to end  - and absolved and deemed to be irrelevant starting with Mozzillo - but the non enforcement creates a fragile system which the public and everyone else knows will be taken down since there is no reason not to cheat everyone all the time - so we all wait for it to break down

nothing is real - no one believes anything - not justice, not romney or the republicans or obama or rules or democracy - its all systemic bulllshit!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 04:15 | 3101064 mkkby
mkkby's picture

They may be pissed, but only because gas is expensive and they just bought another big SUV.  Or their favorite beer or cigs went up a buck.

I'll believe something has really happened when people change their stupid habits.  Like no longer getting suckered by holiday gift giving of useless crap at shopping malls.  When xmas sales are down 20% year over year, the elite will have a reason to fix what ails us.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:30 | 3100712 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Lots of mattress stuffing until rates go back up.  

There's no profit in investing right now.  Gains are speculative and expenses are guaranteed.  

Who'd want to participate in that ass-rape?  Isn't TSA gate-rape enough?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:31 | 3100714 kito
kito's picture

Perhaps the selling stems from the baby boom generation and their need for cash as they head towards the latter stages of their twilight years?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:41 | 3100752 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Kito are you still going for fundamental analysis with this broken ass market? You know better. Just buy some stawks already.......

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:45 | 3100903 kito
kito's picture

Well my parents are boomers, as are their friends, and they are cashing out with a 25 year time frame. They are the largest and wealthiest demographic group and they are starting to dig into their nest eggs.....thats fact....

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:57 | 3100917 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i was just playing around. the math supports you. we just have never seen that math go up against a money printer before. at least i havent.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 06:40 | 3101127 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

You are correct. Also, the RE market will not recover for decades due to this as well. The number one investment for many boomers is the macmansion in markets like NJ, NY, IL, etc, high taxes, and a huge value plunge. They can't sell them to other boomers, the new gen is drowning in debt for "education" so who is the buyer that supports high prices and can pay the energy bills and taxes?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 11:51 | 3101708 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Sure should be rotating out of stocks into something else once they hit 55.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 12:56 | 3101899 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's the "something else" that is the problem, though.  Nothing pays any interest at all and there is reason to believe that soon negative interest rates will be in play such that the banks will charge you just to store you money there because basically they don't need it or want it. 

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:31 | 3100717 Cdad
Cdad's picture

All you have to do is look at this afternoon's algo induced ramp job to know that the market is simply a laughing stock.  It is broken beyond repair.

Commence tens of thousands of layoffs on Wall Street, already.  Those folks are no longer needed.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:40 | 3100975 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

If the financial sector starts laying off, what happens next?  I don't know what is scarier,  a newly unemployed psychopath, or paying for his subsistence and not knowing what he is occupying his time with? 

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:31 | 3100719 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

I recently lost my EBT privledges, damn right I've lost faith in the Gov.  I never had faith in the market though.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:32 | 3100722 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


Ben Shalom, 

    You got a tool for this, yes?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:58 | 3100807 yogibear
yogibear's picture

He been using his tool a lot the last 4 years on savers. He likes using his tool on savers.

Kinda like Bubba uses his tool on new young inmates.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:33 | 3100724 Rearranging Dec...
Rearranging Deckchairs's picture

Is it possible that in addition to having lost all faith in the system ( its why I won't buy life insurance products) that a large segment of the population is forced to liquidate their stocks to survive on. In other words isn't some of this people using up savings in a wage declining and zirp environment with higher than reported inflation?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:08 | 3100830 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yup. You got it dead right. It's worse than "loss of confidence", which implies that once people wake up they'll be buying stocks hand over fist. It's worse. Simply because most "investors" need the cash to live on, pay debt, deal with sprialing cost of living, working and doing business. When there's a little left over, nobody's in the mood to gamble or hand cash over to thieves. Madoff proved that the head of the NASDAQ can also be in the Mafia. What does that tell ya? 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:11 | 3100842 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

85 bil a month going to the banks to buy bonds and stwaks. We may be on this ride for a while.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:20 | 3100862 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yup. And the thing is, the more they all try to reflate (Ben, Abe and all the other lunatics) in the midst of a depression the more they will cause a biflationary burn of savings and cash reserves. Net net: standard of living will decline, the status pyramid will unravel and we become more like a bannana republic

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 10:15 | 3101353 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

What?  We're NOT a banana republic already?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:34 | 3100728 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

How fucking stupid do you have to be to ever trust government to begin with? They always have and always will look for ways to fleece the people.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:38 | 3100742 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Doc I spent the last week with several people who make upwards of a mil/yr and all of them trust gov't implicitly and find the problem to be that it is too small. These are people across a wide array of professions. They just take for granted that a sound system is in place and is uncorruptable. For real. That is what these people think.

easily the smartest dumb motherfkers I have ever met.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:44 | 3100756 ekm
ekm's picture

Easy explanation. They work in businesses that exist only with gov contracts.

Like working in managment for Boeing or any company providing parts for Boeing.

Boeing can't exist without gov contracts, hence all providers to Boeing wouldn't exist without the gov.


These are the rich that I despise, these ones only. These are extractors, not creators

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:45 | 3100761 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"They work in businesses that exist only with gov contracts."

It's as if you were there EKM. Beautifully put.


Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:50 | 3100773 Intelligence_In...
Intelligence_Insulter's picture

The government does not create jobs.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:52 | 3100782 ekm
ekm's picture

Just pay attention to the words I used:

Extractors vs Creators

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:56 | 3100799 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Rent extraction? You mean investing?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:51 | 3100778 ekm
ekm's picture


What's your field of work?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:00 | 3100809 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

My field is very labor intensive. I have to push paper from one side of the desk to the other. Well techinically now I can scan and email that paper so I don't really have to push it. Which is good because one time I pushed it and almost spilled my coffee. Workplace hazards these days. Without getting too specefic this disaster of a market is my vocation. I'm 35 and I have been in this since 22. I don't know much else. Which is why I fear what I see and almost every one of your posts. Because I think your accuracy is scary, and most others.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:04 | 3100821 ekm
ekm's picture

Ah, you are inside the black box called finance.

Good for you to read. 

My comments are about life experience and logic, not theory.

Each time I talk theoretically, I state it.


But I've learned a lot reading from other's experiences. Your experience during Sandy when the ATM machines were not working, was of great, great, great help.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:09 | 3100833 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

That ATM experience proved Kito right. Cash is king still.

I have extended family in Belarus. They still live your nightmare. They get paid and immediately go buy a toaster or something of tangible value. That is how little they trust their currency. I don't think it is impossible for it to happen here. No one knows which way this shakes out.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:12 | 3100845 ekm
ekm's picture

Oh God help them.

Lukashenko, pheeeeeeeeeew

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:13 | 3100850 ekm
ekm's picture

Due to that story I've got $2000 cash here at home.

Few people I know did the same thing after I told them your story.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:15 | 3100856 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Not a lot of downside to having it and it literally saved my ass.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:18 | 3100860 ekm
ekm's picture

Good to hear. At least the little girl was well fed.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:25 | 3100872 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Nothing else matters to me. Nothing even comes 2nd. I wish everyone on here the best for themselves and their families as well.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:33 | 3100892 ekm
ekm's picture

Well said. True father.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:53 | 3100912 kito
kito's picture

ekm try to accumulate more than is what people will lack by decades end.....cold hard cash will be such a precious commodity.......its everything everybody will want when this all plays dollars are like stars in the sky....trillions of them lighting up every asset...but out of reach....just a dream......

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:00 | 3100921 ekm
ekm's picture

I agree.

I actually carried few thousands back to my original country when on vacation in Sept and told my mother to keep it cash like that, in CAD.

She's got Euros, CAD and USD cash also, for herself plus few napoleon gold coins from my grandfather's former wealth.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 01:59 | 3100988 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture



I am a paper pusher too and sustained a near life-threatening paper cut the other day.  Not to mention almost slipping and falling on the newly polished Florentine marble floors my boss installed. Almost broke my back!

Hazards are pervasive in this line of work. I may apply for w/c or disability next time this happens.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:54 | 3100776 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


Gov. of the last rugs that has yet to be yanked.

Ask a Russian, or most Europeans about trust in the Gvts....Rofl.  The people of The Great Experiment are still so naive.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:51 | 3100777 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Bingo. When it's incredibly profitable to be part of the problem, then why wouldn't you want to make the problem bigger?

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:52 | 3100785 toady
toady's picture

Just about all of them are simple extractors anymore. Maybe a few tech guys are still a little subsidy-free, but nearly everyone else has legislated a government handout.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:45 | 3100760 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's the exact opposite here in Indiana, most people I deal with think the system is coming apart at the seams and that Washington has their head up their collective ass. I guess the further you get away from them the less you have in common with them.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:49 | 3100770 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It's coming apart Doc because these goddam repubs want everyone starving to death and want no social net whatsoever. (paraphrasing).

By the way gold is an an illusion and the dollar represents the greatest rabble rabble rabble in history.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 23:58 | 3100806 ekm
ekm's picture

Gold PERSONAL ownership of up to 20% of your net worth is an insurance, not illusion. Not sure myself about a monetary system based on gold.


Check Japan that introduced welfare for everybody since 1950. It's dying.

Basic welfare is ok, you know few months of unemployment insurance, emergency medical services, but that's it. The rest, one must be on his or her own.

I lived in communism. I know what I'm saying.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:02 | 3100816 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

EKM you lived communism which most people have not. The key is, can you see it coming again? Or are you so happy to have gotten away from it that the idea of living that nightmare twice is incomprehensible?

Don't answer that question. I just wonder if you have contemplated it.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:07 | 3100829 ekm
ekm's picture

Communism or any system does NOT come from the top and it is never imposed.

It comes from the bottom,from the people. The system is held by army and police, but both army and police come from the people.

Freedom is a choice, but slavey is choice too.


In USA the 50% who voted for Obama would love communism. Not enough yet to be fearful of, but it is scary.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:18 | 3100858 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Under any other circumstance I would agree with you about communism coming from the bottom, but the way I see our current fascist state is that they try to blur the lines between communism and capitalism as they legislate us a little closer each day.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:21 | 3100863 ekm
ekm's picture

LEGISLATION works only if people obey.

People obey if they like what the legislation provides, namely some bread, some water, a shelter and shut up.


There are millions and millions of people in former soviet union and eastern europe who would literally love to go back to the same system. Not exaggerating at all, I'm speaking quite literally.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 06:47 | 3101131 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

My wife is from Poland, and we visit at least once a year. You are correct. Esp. the young "have nots", they eat up the redistribution line right away. They suffer from envy, and feel it is better to take from someone else rather than earn your own.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 08:07 | 3101163 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

100% correct. I see this whenever I notice how happy people most people look when they are about being scanned before boarding a plane

I belong to a very small minority who would choose a smoking-permitted flight without security checks

and before you agree with me ask yourself if your family would board it with you without complaining

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:26 | 3100877 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


unfortunately, I think I get ur well spoken words.

We (here at the Hedge) are all screwed....the Obamaphomes will outnumber us a 1000x.  An impenatratable hoard....

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 00:28 | 3100881 ekm
ekm's picture

Not sure yet about it.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 02:40 | 3101033 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

not when the niggas gots guns.. aka police/army/navy/air forces/marine.


Freedom ain't a choice; i was born into this fucked up system and programed like a slave, to only understand the way of the slave... and you say i had a choice; sheeeit... nigga. that's like say'n a niggas a nigga cause he chooses to be a nigga; hads nothing to do withs da ghetto arounds him.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 05:46 | 3101111 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

you give dems waaaay too much credit.

Both parties deserve tossing out of power on their collective asses, never to be entrusted with the public trust again.

It's parties that have usurped the power and the sustenance from the people.  They've grown too big to exist and consider the individual too small to count.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 07:58 | 3101158 CaptainAmerica
CaptainAmerica's picture

fonzannoon you ignorant slut....when will you GET it ??

whenever your type gets lost in thought you blame the republicans or the tea party!

what is wrong with being fiscally responsible? the spend spend mentality is what got us all in this shit hole in the first place!!!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!