2012 - 'Year Of Living Dangerously' In Review

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform blog,

On January 8 of this year I posted my annual prediction article for this year – 2012 – The Year of Living Dangerously. Now it’s time to assess my complete and utter cluelessness when it comes to predicting things within a given time frame. Despite the fact that myself and everyone else acting like they know what lays ahead are proven wrong time and time again, we continue to make predictions about the future. It makes us feel like we have some control, when we don’t. The world is too complex, too big, too corrupt, too lost in theories and delusions, and too dependent upon too many leaders with too few brains to be able to predict what will happen next. This is the time of year when all the “experts” will be making their 2013 predictions. I haven’t seen too many of these experts going back and honestly assessing their 2012 predictions, which didn’t happen.

What I’ve learned is that “experts” usually have an agenda. Their predictions are designed to convince you to buy the stocks they recommend or purchase their newsletter. Many of these “experts” work for Wall Street, the corporate MSM, a political party or corporate interest. Half of the “experts” represent the status quo and want the masses to think everything is just fine and will steadily improve. The other half are fear mongers that want to scare you into buying their products with predictions of impending collapse at any moment. I like to read the predictions of a wide variety of pundits, bloggers, and so called journalists, while understanding they probably have an agenda.

Personally, I try to make my predictions based on the facts I observe and try to gather. My agenda is to prepare my family for whatever these facts tell me is likely to happen. My website is just a place for me to post my thoughts. I don’t depend upon it for a living and I have nothing to sell. That doesn’t mean that my biases, hopes, and desires do not color my predictions. As I reread my article yesterday, I found myself thinking, “when is this long winded gasbag going to actually make some predictions?” My article was supposed to make 2012 predictions but ended up trying to tie 2012 into the Fourth Turning Crisis paradigm. When I eventually got to the predictions, I realized that a monkey throwing darts could have done just as well. If I was one of those “experts”, I’d say that I wasn’t wrong, I was just early. Of course, that is a cop-out. Being early is the same as being wrong.

I’m more interested in why I was wrong. It seems I always underestimate the ability of sociopathic central bankers and their willingness to destroy the lives of hundreds of millions to benefit their oligarch masters. I always underestimate the rampant corruption that permeates Washington DC and the executive suites in mega-corporations across the land. And I always overestimate the intelligence, civic mindedness, and ability to understand math of the ignorant masses that pass for citizens in this country. It seems that issuing trillions of new debt to pay off trillions of bad debt, government sanctioned accounting fraud, mainstream media propaganda, government data manipulation and a populace blinded by mass delusion can stave off the inevitable consequences of an unsustainable economic system. But enough excuses. Let’s see how wrong I was:

  • All the episodes which will occur in 2012 will have at their core one of the three elements described by Strauss & Howe in 1997: Debt, Civic Decay, or Global Disorder.

This was a generic prediction. Those are a lot easier to take credit for as being right. Considering the country is about to go over the fiscal cliff, I’d say that debt has had a major impact in 2012. The disgusting political campaign, the anger over efforts to ban guns, urban violence, 20% of nation on food stamps, and real unemployment rate of 20% certainly prove that civic decay is accelerating. Uprisings in Egypt, Syria and across the Middle East intensified. Israel and Iran got closer to inevitable war. Japan and China are on the verge of conflict. The U.S. is still bogged down in Afghanistan and has failed miserably in efforts to democratize the Middle East. I’d say we have had a bit of global disorder.

  • At best, the excessive levels of sovereign debt will slow economic growth to zero or below in 2012. At worst, interest rates will soar as counties attempt to rollover their debt and rolling defaults across Europe will plunge the continent into a depression.

The best case scenario for European bankers and politicians came to pass in 2012. The GDP for the European Union went negative in the 3rd quarter of 2012. The southern European nations are experiencing depression level conditions with soaring unemployment, social unrest, and higher interest rates. But even Germany is experiencing a dramatic slowdown. The bankers continue to call the shots, with various debt schemes designed to keep the bankers whole, while throwing the people to the wolves. They have postponed the day of reckoning, but it is coming. They do not have a liquidity problem. They have a solvency problem. You cannot resolve a debt problem by creating more debt.

  • The truth that no one wants to acknowledge is the standard of living for every person in Europe, the United States and Japan will decline. The choice is whether the decline happens rapidly by accepting debt default and restructuring or methodically through central bank created inflation that devours the wealth of the middle class. Debt default would result in rich bankers losing vast sums of wealth and politicians accepting the consequences of their phony promises. Bankers and politicians will choose inflation.

This was an easy one. Bankers and politicians will never choose pain for themselves when they can shift it to the people. Bernanke and the rest of the world’s central bankers, in cooperation with their captured politicians, have chosen to inflate the debt away by printing money. They trust in the shallowness and ignorance of the masses to not notice as their standard of living steadily declines.

Controlling the distribution of data allows the oligarchs to falsify the true level of inflation and the corporate MSM dutifully spews the propaganda to the masses.

  • The European Union will not survive 2012 in its current form. Countries are already preparing for the dissolution. Politicians and bankers will lie and print until the day they pull the plug on the doomed Euro experiment.

I was 100% wrong in this assessment. The politicians and bankers are most certainly lying, but they have succeeded in keeping the EU intact. The dissolution would imperil too many bankers. Whether they can keep it intact through 2013 is another question.

  • The National Debt will be $16.5 trillion when the next president takes office in January 2013.

Barack Obama will be inaugurated on January 20, 2013. As of December 26, 2012 the National Debt stood at $16.34 trillion and according to Turbo Tax Timmy will hit the debt limit of $16.4 trillion on December 31. He will use accounting gimmicks and not fund government pensions to not exceed the limit, but the debt will continue to accumulate at a rate of $3.5 billion per day. The National Debt will be at approximately $16.47 trillion when Obama starts his 2nd term. Close enough for government work.

  • As debt servicing grows by the day, the economy losses steam. The excessive and increasing debt levels will lead to a renewed recession in 2012.

Despite the fact that the government and corporate media continue to report economic growth and a barely positive GDP, a recession did begin this past summer. Using a true level of inflation, GDP has been negative since 2006.

The horrific Christmas retail sales and declining corporate profits reveal the truth. Fourth quarter GDP will be negative and the government will eventually adjust the prior quarters lower. Excel spreadsheet models, fake inflation figures and seasonal adjustments cannot deny reality or the facts.

  • As foreclosures rise a self-reinforcing loop will develop. Home prices will fall as banks dump houses at lower prices, pushing millions more into a negative equity position. Home prices will fall another 5% to 10% in 2012, with a couple years to go before bottoming. 

Another 100% wrong prediction. I again underestimated the willingness of corrupt Wall Street bankers, in cahoots with the Federal government, to fraudulently boost home prices by withholding foreclosures from the market and creating a fake housing shortage. The Feds have willingly used Fannie, Freddie and the FHA to guarantee more bad mortgage loans and put the taxpayer further on the hook for the billions of bad debt. Bennie has swooped in and bought up billions of toxic mortgage debt from the criminal Wall Street banks, while driving mortgage rates to record low levels. With this massive intervention, they have managed to increase home prices by 4% and increase home sales to levels 60% below the peak. Job well done.

  • The working age population will increase by 1.7 million, the number of people employed will go up by 1 million, but the official unemployment rate will drop to 7% as the BLS reveals that 10 million people decided to relax and leave the workforce. Surely I jest. The government manipulated unemployment rate will rise above 9%, while the real rate will surpass 25%.

I made what I thought was an outrageous prediction as an attempt at humor, but my outrageous prediction was closer to the truth. The working age population has grown by 3.7 million people, the number of employed people has gone up by only 2.7 million, 2.4 million people decided to kick back and leave the workforce, resulting in the unemployment rate “plunging” from 8.7% to 7.7%.

Measuring unemployment on par with the method used during the 1930s would put the level at 23% today. But you should trust the BLS. Why would they lie?

  • Ben Bernanke, Wall Street shysters and Barack Obama want you to be drawn in by the allure of short-term gains based on hopes of QE3. The stock market will be volatile in 2012 with stocks falling 20% when it becomes evident the country is going back into recession. Ben will try to ride to the rescue with QE3 as he buys up more toxic mortgage debt. Wall Street will do their usual touchdown dance celebration, but the bloom will fall off this rose fast, as quantitative easing has proven to be a failure in stimulating economic growth.Gridlock in Washington D.C., chaotic national conventions, and the implosion of Europe will contribute to the market finishing down by at least 15% for the year.

I hope you didn’t follow my stock market advice as it looks like I missed by only 25% or 30% with this prediction. It is amazing what zero interest rates for Wall Street banks, QE to infinity, high frequency trading supercomputers, and fake Wall Street earnings can do for a stock market. Since the recession has not been acknowledged and rigged corporate profits still sit near their peak, the stock market has continued to rise. I applaud the oligarchs for their ability to extract every last dime from the pockets of the middle class in their avaricious plundering of America. Bernie Madoff is proudly admiring their work from his prison cell.

  • The average price of oil will exceed $100 during 2012 resulting in the highest average gas price in history for American drivers. These high prices, along with various weather related issues will keep food prices elevated, with 5% or higher increases likely. This should spur a few more peasant revolutions around the globe.

I nailed this prediction. Americans paid the highest average price for a gallon of gasoline in history during 2012. Agricultural commodities like corn, wheat and soybeans soared by 7% to 20%, as the high oil prices and drought drove food prices higher. Meat prices will rise in 2013 as herds had to be thinned in 2012 because of the high feed costs. But don’t worry. The BLS will just adjust the food inflation away as they assume you switch from hamburger to cat food.

  • Gold will finish the year higher. As always, it will be volatile and manipulated by the powers that be. A drop below $1,500 in the beginning of the year is possible, but when Ben announces QE3, it will be off to the races. I expect gold to reach $1,900 by year end. Silver will be more volatile, but will likely reach $40 by year end.

Gold will finish the year higher for the twelfth consecutive year. It was volatile, with a high of $1,796 and a low of $1,527. It will finish the year in the mid $1,600s. Silver was equally volatile, but also up for the year. It ranged between $37.50 and $26. It will finish the year in the $30 range. The powers that be know that rising gold and silver prices reveal their deceitful inflationary master plan, so they use all of their market manipulative powers to suppress the prices of these metals. The higher our debt, the higher their prices will go. When the confidence game is revealed to be a Ponzi scheme, the prices of gold and silver will be unleashed.

  • Old line mall based retailers like Sears and J.C. Penney die a slow agonizing death as they stagger into the sunset like Montgomery Ward, Circuit City and thousands before them. 

I was wrong about JC Penney. They are dying a fast agonizing death as the idiot savant from Apple has driven them straight into the ground, with sales plunging by 26% versus last year. It isn’t a matter of if, but when this employer of 159,000 declares bankruptcy. The “brilliant” (Jim Cramer says so) Eddie Lampert has Sears on a glide path to liquidation. This Christmas season will reveal these CEOs to be frauds.

  • The Occupy Movement will become more extreme with more disruptions of the economic system with less warning so the authorities don’t have time to prepare. I expect more cyber hacking into Wall Street, government, and media computer networks, causing disarray and uncertainty regarding financial information. I expect the Democratic and Republican presidential conventions to be overrun by protestors. The authorities will respond with excessive force, resulting in further violent protests in other cities.  

Another 100% miss. The Occupy Movement splintered and petered out after being brutally dismantled by the armed mercenaries of the status quo. There were some cyber-attacks, but they caused minimal disruption. The masses are satiated with their techno-gadgets and reality TV shows. No one protested. No one cared.

  • The Federal government grows ever more panicked by the knowledge that its Ponzi scheme economy is going to collapse. This is why passage of the NDAA and the future passage of SOPA are so important to them. Imprisonment of citizens without charge and shutting down the only remaining means of truth – the Internet – are essential to retaining their power and control over the masses. At the same time, gun sales are at record levels. Critical thinking Americans can see the writing on the wall and no longer trust corrupt politicians of either party. Arming yourself and buying physical gold and silver is a prudent act in today’s world.

The outrage over SOPA, led by the alternative online media, stopped it from being passed. The tyrants continue their efforts to suppress free speech on the internet, as Facebook shuts down pages that do not conform to the corporate fascist government agenda. Gun sales are off the charts, as critical thinking people no longer trust the corrupt government. Physical gold and silver sales are soaring as critical thinking people no longer trust our corrupt economic system.

  • The ruling elite hand selected puppets for the 2012 presidential election are Obama and Romney. They are virtually interchangeable and both are acceptable to the Wall Street oligarchs. The monkey wrench in the gears is Ron Paul. He will run as a 3rd Party candidate and focus a light on the crony capitalism that passes for free markets in America today. He will be vilified by both parties and their media mouthpieces, but if he gains traction I fear an unfortunate accident will befall him. Either way, he will have a dramatic impact on the debate and the outcome of the 2012 election.

With this prediction I allowed my hope to overcome reason. The oligarchs are too powerful. Ron Paul’s grassroots campaign made the oligarchs extremely uncomfortable. He drew huge crowds of young people on college campuses across the country. His message of liberty and freedom resonated with millions, but he was no match for the billionaires that call the shots in this country. He was silenced by the Republican establishment and chose not to run as a 3rd party candidate. The puppet on the left won the election. The puppet on the right retreated to one of his six mansions. Ron Paul rode off into the sunset knowing he gave it his best shot.

  • It seems more likely by the day that someone will do something stupid in or around Iran and the Persian Gulf will explode into a virtual hell on earth. The unintended consequences of such a development will far outweigh the intended consequences. The revolutions, protests, and brewing civil wars in Egypt, Syria, Libya and Iraq will flare up even if Iran doesn’t explode into a shooting war. The tensions in the Middle East will keep oil prices above $100, despite a world plunging into recession.

The showdown between Israel and Iran did not happen in 2012, despite increasingly angry rhetoric. The stealth war with Iran began, as economic sanctions and cyber warfare have begun to destroy their economy and impoverish their people. Revolutions, riots, protests and civil war spread across the Middle East throughout 2012 resulting in high oil prices and a worldwide economic contraction which is picking up speed as 2012 comes to a conclusion.

  • China’s hard landing will arrive in 2012. Keynesianism on steroids has failed as they’ve built more than enough vacant malls, vacant cities, vacant condo towers, and bridges to nowhere. Property prices will plunge, exports will decline, and peasants will revolt as food and energy prices push them over the edge.

China has come in for a hard landing. With a government more corrupt than even ours, their reported economic data would make a BLS drone blush with pride. Property prices are falling. Exports are falling. But somehow they report economic growth of 7%. And the MSM dutifully reports this gibberish as truth. Unrest and protests are a daily occurrence in China, but they are immediately crushed. The Chinese authorities continue to clamp down on the internet and media. China’s economic system is a rotting Keynesian nightmare.

I also raised the generic possibilities of earthquakes, hurricanes, pandemics and terrorist attacks. I noted that a terrorist attack in a public venue might cause a government over-reaction. Even though the slaughter of young school children by a deranged mental defective doesn’t constitute a terrorist attack, the reaction by government officials and their liberal control freak allies in the mainstream media are exactly what I feared. Every tragedy is used to gain more control over our lives and take away our Constitutional rights in the name of safety and security. The ignorant masses willingly give up their freedom and liberty, believing their Orwellian government protectors will look out for them. As we enter 2013, time grows shorter. The power hungry psychopaths continue to pillage and plunder. Our unsustainable economic system struggles under the weight of debt, despair and delusion as the endgame approaches. The willfully ignorant populace is lost in their techno-narcissistic dream world.

Will 2013 be the year it all collapses in a flaming heap of rubble? I don’t know. Maybe you should ask an “expert”.

It guarantees to be an interesting year. I’ll be hiring Bonzo chimp to help me make my 2013 predictions in the next week or so.

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DavidPierre's picture

Banned for calling you out as a LIAR and for exposing you posting comments under aliases.

Your previous webmaster dumped you sorry fat ass a few years ago.



nmewn's picture

Well, I have to say, he is consistent as a nattering nabob of iron & aluminum oxides equating to nano-thermite in just destroyed buildings...which is the same as crying eureka in finding salt in sea water...lol...but I still marvel at how he can remain silent (on ZH) for hours or days on end...until you throw up a post.

The timing is uncanny.

Jim Quinn's picture

I agree.

He is certifiably crazy.

He is incapable of an intelligent dialogue. He appears to have pre-prepared copy and paste posts ready to go at the drop of a hat.

I generally ignore his gibberish, but when I'm in the mood I goad him on, to reveal his utter stupidity.

nmewn's picture

Well, I'll just leave it this way and move on to bigger & better things for myself...(on-line)...the one called DP certainly is obsessive...lol.

Escapeclaws's picture

More likely multiple personality disorder. These two must share the same computer at the same time. It was this post of Quinn's that made me suspect this may be what is going on. It sounds exactly like what you would encounter with this type of schizophrenia.

laurie's picture

Christ, some of you people are fucking nuts.

Your entire lives are consumed by conspiracy theories.

You nutjobs really need to get laid.

Element's picture

Don't think its a sex issue, reading the thread I was thinking some people are smoking waaaaaaaaay too much pot.

Unfortunately conspiracies are actually real, what's the big deal with admitting that? Is denial really that much better?

Never been a fan of it.

ZeroAvatar's picture

I'm going to state for the record that the 'truther' movement is a pile of crap.  I don't know why it's so hard for people to wrap their head's around the fact that we got punked by 19 mother-fuckvn towelheads.  Pure and simple.


On a further note, the 9/11 denial rhetoric has helped me to understand the mind of other people around me.  Never in my wildest dreams did I suspect the level of paranoia, mis-information and drug-abuse abounding in the world.  Just about every other person seems to have some type of mental defect, neurosis, cognitive-dissonance.......drug-induced low I.Q., it's just, well......insane.


I've been researching the left/brain right/brain theory re:  Liberals vs Conservative left/right up/down dichotomy so prevalent in the minds of our society today.  I'm trying to get at the actual root cause of all the dissention.



nmewn's picture

Be careful there, the Aurora theater shooter was into the study of neuroscience himself, while seeing a university shrink on the sly...lol...so far, no fiscal conservatives or libertarians with orange hair have ever shot down people for simply watching a movie.

Now, I don't know about ooops wires to scalps at Berkeley but I can I can tell you from experience that "progressives" are driven by pure emotion more than conservatives.

The destination arrived at, by these emotional drives within the "progessive" mind, are very different than the deductive reasoning of the conservative/libertarian mind.

Thats just a hard cold fact, with zero emotion attached ;-)

Yes_Questions's picture
When you say orange hair, do you mean dyed? Cause, many o' Indonesian called my ancestors orange haired and that was attempted genocide. and, we're all driven by emotion.  Labeled human mandates this truth.
nmewn's picture

Maybe I should have said "led" by emotion(s).

I think we can all agree, we appreciate the world around us, from hunger to obesity, fortune to poverty, the thing that tugs at us (emotion) should never overcome our common sense.

How did the person become obese or poverty stricken (to pick the negatives). Likewise, how did they become fortunate or well fed (to pick the positives).

Let me put it this way, I have as much disdain for the person who will not voluntarily right themselves as the one who voluntarily stole from someone else.

They both chose their path in life, if it doesn't conflict with mine, there is no emotion...when it does, theres hell to pay from me...with maybe a little emotion involved ;-)

Element's picture

Yes but emoshenally-aware peepole ar also interlectureally superia!


I can't deny 9-11 was an inside job nmewn, I tried hard for years to beat-off that conclusion, but the evidence for, was everywhere (and a lot is pure nonsense of course) and some of it you can not discount, nor write-off, it's authenticity and quantitative continuity is compelling, and can't be explained away frivolously. Well, it can be, if you don't want to know. Couldn't really blame you. But if you're going to insist it didn't happen, that then becomes a different matter.


Read these forum thread links:


Pinned: It Is Conclusive - 9/11 Aircraft Airborne Well After Crash


Pinned: Acars Confirmed - 9/11 Aircraft Airborne Long After Cras


Pinned: Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757


Pinned: Simulator Recreation Demonstrates Pentagon Attack Impossibility


I wish it were possible to discount that stuff, as it would make life so much simpler.

nmewn's picture

Because its from you, I'll look at it.

But I can tell you the one that hit the Pentagon was seen to hit the Pentagon by over a hundred eyewitnesses. And it was described (by them) as a passenger jet.


The ones that hit the towers were seen to hit the towers, by millions.

I have no doubt of some peoples sincerity in what they believe (or would like to believe) happened.

But facts are some cold hard things.

I have nevr and never will, ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by simple incompetence, regarding it's investigtion...formal or informal.

Element's picture

We both agree there, verifiable material facts are sufficient. All of them though.

Those links are a bit on the techy side, but the facts they reveal I haven't been able to dismiss.

(BTW, I saw the planes hit the towers via tube, I think we can agree those were large jets, so kind of surprised you feel a need to state something like that at all. I also don't follow the malice remark, for if something 'rigged' and staged happened here, only then are motives and suspects valid)



nmewn's picture

My point on the malice remark was a nod toward those who say the formal investigation was less than stellar and likewise the informal investigations ie rust & paint pigment binder (iron & aluminum oxides) equaling, somehow, nano-thermite. I intended no offense.

Looking at your offering now...

Element's picture

No problem, I realized you were referring to something else. I found this discussion was a fairly good starting point.


Part 1


Part 2


nmewn's picture

These were interesting.

I'm not a pilot but if I'm interpreting the ACARS data presented correctly (along with them) and understand the communications system described, they seem to be speculating that UA93 and UA175 were mixed up in Pennsylvania?

I don't know how that winds up happening when all the hijacked planes transponders were either shut off or the code to identify them at all was changed, as was the case with UA175.

Traffic controlers have testified they saw UA175's transponder go off, then on, then change to another code (twice) not assigned for any aircraft scheduled to fly that day. Warning...enormous pdf...page 13, transponder code changed to 3020...then to 3321...


What is more troubling to me is the ACARS data is said to have come via a FOIA request. How can they say UA175's transponder was turned off, then the code changed twice, then through this FOIA say UA175 is over Pa?

Something doesn't smell right here. Perhaps a pilot could weigh in...

Element's picture

nmewn - Best as I can deduce it's not that the ACARS data is indicating the jets were confused with each other.

But rather it's indicating that the aircraft had simply continued en-route, as though nothing was wrong, because nothing was wrong, they had not been hijacked, at that point. But instead, it appears they were supplanted by other aircraft, pretending to be the reported passenger jets, but it was the supplanting aircraft that flew into the towers.

These data seem to eliminate another possibility.

There are a bunch of well-writen and credible pinned-posts and comment-threads on that 911 pilots forum, and those and the videos in them paint a pretty damning picture of official misrepresentation, lies and cover-up, which is so compelling it demands direct explanations, and a fresh inquiry into all of what's really happened to these aircraft, from the data, so that material conclusions can be drawn, from ALL the available facts, and go from there. But I'd recommend you (and everyone else) have a close look at what that forum has uncovered.

I'm not saying jump to a conclusion nmewn, I'm just saying keep your mind open about this, don't jump in the other direction, reserve judgement, there's much more to come from this set of facts and observations I suspect.


nmewn's picture

Believe it or not...I have kept an open mind about it.

But at every turn, it seems I have been able to debunk what was put forward, easily. I won't tell you what blind alley's, as you already know them well from GW threads. It's simple science, logic and a little tech.

I have no overriding interest in debunking them (I sometimes wish it to be true, for my own suspicions) but without proof & truth, I can't sign off on it in good faith to myself or others.

They said the transponder was turned off, then on, then switched to two different freqs (and corroborated that in multiple evidence) then allowed a FOIA request showing something different?...thats weird, but not an indictment. 

Element, what I always try to do is, take what I think real & correct and try to disprove it with all my might.

What is left...is truth.

Element's picture

Well I wouldn't have expected less of you.

The transponder code change is interesting as well, because to set it you have to actually dial in the code and then hit the IDENT button to actuate the change in the code. Which would tend to suggest the code changes were dialed-in and IDENT pressed entirely deliberately. It's basically not possible to do that by accident. In which case, perhaps one could speculate it potentially acts as a signal to confirm certain things had taken place, or were in motion.  Who knows, but it is an interesting observation, for sure.

(I do realize there are specific transponder codes for quietly signalling to ATC that a hijack is in progress)


EDIT: interesting .mp3 audio discussion from one of the pilots for 911.


Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired commercial airline captain with 27 years experience. Aircraft flown: Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100. Retired fighter pilot. Attended U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School (Topgun) twice. 20-year Navy career. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, and Grumman F-14 Tomcat. 23,000+ total hours flown.



nmewn's picture

Well, we both know this is somewhat speculative.

What we know is not speculation is UA175 had been in communication with Boston (ZBW) since it took off and on radar, which is important. And when it entered NY controller airspace (ZNY) the pilots advised ZNY they had heard what sounded like an open mike transmission by an unknown voice for people to "stay in their seats".

This open mike transmission was presumed to have come from Flight 11 which had already been hijacked.

The pilots voice is the same voice that took off with the plane (UA175) reporting they heard something weird (again, presumably, from 11) because he (175) wasn't hijacked yet and of course cabin communications don't transmit outside of the plane...for instance a stewardess saying we have a problem back here.

Flight path, altitude & radar plots are in the attached...


One of my points all along is it all has to mesh. This would be a large operation with many people involved. It's chances of doing the damage inflicted are 100%. It's chances of those involved compartmentalized and thus going undetected are practically zero...because of it's size & scope.

I'm asked to believe that UA175 (and the other two) were landed somewhere (Pennsylvania?) and the passengers taken away and killed. I can't, someone woul see. These things (large jets) landing don't go unnoticed and the runway has to be of sufficient length, so it looks to me the only one compatible would be over around Pittsburgh, the Air Force Reserve's 911th Airlift Wing.

A passenger jet landing there would raise more than a few eyebrows among the enlisted, very traceable and confirmable. Likewise, at a civilian airport. There would be zero chance passengers disembarking would go quitely along with boarding busses in some remote corner there...and again, the air traffic controllers would know of their presence...more loose ends.

Again, the civilian controllers never lost radar contact with any of them, only communications with the pilots. And we know 93 went where it went by the passenger list, debris & personal effects found there.


I did like the pilots song in the intro, I listened to it this morning before going to work. Tonight I just wanted to circle back around and give you my honest opinion, I've always respected your knowledge and forthrightness.

Anyways, Happy New Year Element! We won't agree on this but its one of the few things we don't.

Element's picture

No problem, I do appreciate your input and assessment, and the linked materials. Certainly it would be a practical challenge to do something of that sort suspected. I would add a couple of provisional considerations and thought though;


Given the ACARS data and several other confounding matters made clear via the links in the pilots for 9-11 'stickys', where many things remain unexplained and outstanding observations. Plus the supplied official flight data are proven, via multiple detailed experiments, discussed in great detail by pilots for 9-11, to not be consistent or physically viable, nor reported flight geometries viable, nor structural loadings, and nor the performance limitations viable, for the jets involved.

Basically an --> enormous <-- number of things still don't 'mesh' within the data that is available, even if we do presume the accepted official story is correct. That's the general problem with the standard reports of the events, and why it has been so problematic and the subject of endless research.

So then, lateral thinking is required to attempt to account for ALL of the observations - a few ideas;

(1) The recorded open-microphone comments need not be presumed to be the result of a hijack of the sort aserted that lead to aircraft hitting the towers.

(2) There is a body of material and claims that suggest those were not the specific aircraft that hit the towers.

(3) If there was in fact a managed-intervention of the flight of the sort indicated may have occurred within the video link I supplied above, then I think we'd have to admit that there's at least one more potential interpretation of the voice recording and radar and transponder information available.

(4) Many may suggest that these jets were being taken over and flown on, and that this actually didn't go undetected. That it indeed was observed, and that substantive evidence to support that view does exist, and has been supplied. And thus that these jets potentially weren't the aircraft that hit the towers. What you have said there doesn’t affect that possibility. Obviously you're mostly just voicing doubts, but they are not definitive in a reasonable way to lead to rejection of the premise.

(5) These jets had enough fuel to fly right cross the entire US continent non-stop, and to have the mandated minimum of 45 mins flight time fuel reserve at the planned flight range.  So those jets could fly all the way out over the pacific, or to South America, even to Alaska. So nominating a potential destination to land is not reasonable.

(6) But it's also not even necessary to land as Flight 93 amply demonstrated. There's no rational need to be faced with any of the issues you proposed could be generated. If you're ruthless enough to do any of this why would you ever allow them off the jet alive? Obviously you wouldn’t.

(7) For instance, the passengers and aircrew do not have to be conscious, nor even alive. Indeed, it would be far better if they were rendered dead, and communications blocked immediately. But how? Well, it's extremely simple to do within a pressurised jet flying at 31k feet. Prosaic non-pressurised cabin induced hypoxia can achieve that very rapidly and very quietly, as any pilot can tell you. All you'd have to do is to disable the cabin pressure alarm and not permit the vents that pressurize the cabin to open as the jet climbs out to altitude. Or else, close them once up there, and every one will fairly quickly get drowsy, euphoric, happy, uncaring, and then go to sleep and never awaken. So yes the cabin crew might briefly report a problem in the cabin, and yes, the flight crew may fumble with the microphone (or even the transponder) before succumbing. There's a ~9.5 minute gap in the voice transcript record in the .pdf you supplied, in between the last pilot acknowledgment to ATC contact, and the first non-response to the next ATC radio call to the aircrew. I'm sure you can see there's another potential interpretation for non response. And other explanations are also possible, but the point is, it remains an open question.

We won't understand the full real data set(s) available, and won't via ignoring or discounting any of it, nor by sticking to the standard story, which is clear is inconsistent with the full set of data that we have in front of us. You know as well as I do that we must not and can not ignore evidence. The 'meshing' of a story is certainly not as important as accounting for all of the data that we have. The Occam's razor principle requires the simplest explanation that accounts for ALL of the data available.

(8) Phones can be jammed, thus all comms can stop.

(9) At which point it's possible to take remote-control of the electronic systems of the jet, and use the FMS and autopilot fly it to a preset location thousands of km away. Lets speculate; over a deep-ocean trench to the east of the Caribbean sea. So you set it into a GPS autopilot glide-slope at low-speed with wheels-up, on to water. It crash-lands at near stall speed, and right beside awaiting vessels who knew exactly where it was going to 'land'. Vents are opened to flood the cabin and the wings, and the vessel collects any debris. The jet sinks like a stone into 5 to 6 km deep water. Then you use an RV to pump pelagic marine sediment mud, covering it over and immobilizing it, thus hiding it permanently.  You'd not see it, nor the bodies again. Keep black-ops vessel with helicopter and advanced sensors in the area to look for any wreckage that may have escaped the aircraft.


You and I both know such things could easily be done, and operation Northwoods showed that this was the sort of thing being actually contemplated 50 years ago. All that has happened since is that it's even more possible and viable to do this, and with a lot less people or effort involved. Plus we do know the control which the media and govt exert (and you surely must be aware of counter-info efforts that are occurring and on-going and have been detected regarding prior dishonest 9-11 debunking proposals and explanations?).

Thus the objections you have raised don't seem a realistic way of approaching the problem of the date, and possibilities of the things that actually don’t 'mesh', and aren't in themselves compelling reasons or evidence to discount the general premise that arises from the several disturbing matters, like the ACARS data transmissions and electronic receipts.

So let's not be too hasty to make a judgement call about what can or can't occur, and what does or doesn't 'mesh'.  ;)

There's lot's of other stuff that also didn't mesh that day:




But best wishes to you and your family nmewn, I do hope you have a great 2013 and all goes well in your local world.

DavidPierre's picture

Everything you ever wanted to know about the 9/11 conspiracy theory in under 5 minutes.


PhilofOz's picture

It's called denial, and I must admit I thought of ZH as being composed of 90% logical, level-headed, clued up citizens of the USA. with a small percent of mindless robotic fools otherwise. The down arrows coming your way have me reconsidering my thoughts on this. 

Cathartes Aura's picture

the package doesn't always live up to the labeling.

plenty of herd-thinking on this site, hidden behind common language that people upvote emotionally - about 5 key words would be easy to troll here and get "best friend" status amongst the regulars. . . and of course, the reverse can earn you grouped attacks - mostly anonymous, of course.

it's really that easy.

BigDuke6's picture

Is it just me or are the gold nuts (yes me) going down on this site..

and the guns and ammo brigade on the up?

Cycles i know

but the bikini model on the thread doesn't help - why not put a AR-15 'platform' with a rocket launcher tucked in her pants Tyler?

is that just to draw in nmwen?

Cathartes Aura's picture

on second thought, *edit* and I'll just leave with the last line, as it was sincere. . .

hope your time in the "sticks" was re-invigorating, yet peaceful - and hope to see you around in the "new" year!

BigDuke6's picture


Yes, out in the boonies - seeing the ring of the milky way at night (love that) - helped me clear my head, amazing how the 'grind' can remove the ability to think.

All the best for 2013 to you.

i'll be reading more than posting here for a while...

Cathartes Aura's picture

ahh yes, the night sky sans "civilisation" lights - does make it easier to drop the background noise and simply relax.

another couple months, I'm there. . .

nmewn's picture

There was a bikini model on this thread?

Was she bearing her arms? ;-)


BigDuke6's picture


Now i want an honest answer...

How many folks watching that link - here on ZH - are thinking

"Wouldn't it be great to be stuck in a bunker with those girls and 1000 tins of beef jerky after the nuclear holocaust..."

Cheers bud, be good.


Cathartes Aura's picture


you both appear to have been ran-dumb-ly splattered in Quinn downvotes, let me even things out. . .

and I'll pass on the jerky link, *cough*

nmewn's picture

lol...meh, it happens.

Never been much on allowing everyone the privilege to vote anyways ;-)

BigDuke6's picture

The meaning of that link is that the MIC works in mysterious ways.

And the lowest common denominator is the preferred choice these days for TPTB.

Yes_Questions's picture



You could have stopped at sentence one, but no.


The Joker's picture

I don't know why it's so hard for people to wrap their head around the fact that planes can't just vaporize into thin air. 

Find one photo of a plane crash, in the history of mankind, where there is nothing remaining of the plane or contents therein.  If you can do that I, for one, may reconsider my position. 

Cathartes Aura's picture

and not one, but two "planes" - magicked out of existence, including passengers. . .

seriously, it's just not that hard to realise, unless ones mind is determined NOT to go there.

and if that's the case, why on earth give the denier any credible space on other opinions offered?

Diogenes's picture

If you can show me how to burn through a 17" steel I beam  with a kerosene flame I'll buy you a new car.

francis_sawyer's picture

@JQ ~ "Spamming every post with his 9/11 copy and paste gibberish... At least he's consistent..."


I'm not trying to side against you here because I, at minimum, do appreciate the time & effort you put into making a post [whether or not I believe the material is relevant ~ which is irrelevant in of itself because it's just one person's opinion about another person's opinion]... Frankly ~ when I make a comment, I try to insert either humor or irony as a way to be thought provoking and/or provide some entertainment value to it... I'm not unique in that manner... There are MANY posters on ZH whose comments regularly have that quality [whether they do it on purpose, or not]... I know this because after a couple of years, I find my 'speed reading eyes' constantly scanning for their icons...

Anyway ~ My real point is that I can understand where DP is coming from... His basic... 'CONSISTENT' stance is that he's become hardwired to have little intellectual respect for 9/11 Truth deniers [whether they are casual or active in their denial]... I must admit that I pretty much feel the same way... I'm not going to pick through all the comments, but if my memory serves me, the most prevalent link that DP uses to make the case is the one which basically puts the period at the end of the sentence by saying that with the overwhelming evidence that has been churned up, over time, in the aftermath of 9/11, you really have to call into question the mental state of anyone who still believes the "pre-packaged" explanation [basically ~ the 9/11 Commission story]... I agree with that whole heartedly... If somebody is that stupid, lazy, blind, or outright 'bribed' to not be interested in finding out the truth, then it's hard to make a case for having any relation with that person whatsoever because the discussion goes right to the core of existence...

If you don't believe you are being lied to about 9/11... Then you are OK with living a lie... & since I'm not OK with living a lie... we'd have a problem... [to deny that point would be a lie in of itself, as 'conflicts' have a way of always coming to bear & play out on the stage of reality, eventually]...


Regularly ~ Here at ZH... francis_sawyer is regularly involved in the same kind of conflict... In my case [as everyone who reads this blog probably knows], it's always francis_sawyer vs. those evil joos... I admit that I insert them into the discussion with [what OTHERS probably consider] annoying regularity... Most probably think I'm diverting the subject, but instead I believe I'm FOCUSING the subject...

In Law, when the evidence is circumstantial, the most important element required to reach a guilty verdict is MOTIVE... I'm not going to revisit every comment I've made in the past on the subject, but it's more than clear to me that there are substantial instances [throughout history] of MOTIVE [which is based on longstanding & documented behavioral patterns]...

Just like with 9/11... It seems too 'UNCOMFORTABLE' for people to face up to reality... They blindly look past the extrordinarily mathematical & statistical anomaly that a subset that represents less than 1% of the worlds population have wormed their way into more than 75% holding positions of ownership, advisory, or power in the 3 most powerful nodes of population & civic control:

- banking (the 'economic' branch)

- MSM (the 'mind control' branch)

- political lobby (the 'legislative power' branch... Not to mention the 'legal profession' itself...

It's as if you flipped a coin 5 times & it landed on its side each time...

All of the above would NOT be a problem if all that were true & the world happened to be a peaceful & equitable place for all mankind... But the problem is, the world is a MESS... Hell ~ one could argue that the world would even be 'messier' if NOBODY was in control & we lived in a sort of DARK AGES... But most who study history know that the DARK AGES themselves had a different villain 'THE CHURCH', to keep them oppressed & mind controlled... Throughout history, it seems the narrative never changes...

- One pharaoh ~ many slaves

- One Emperor ~ legions of soldiers

- One Pope ~ many sheep

- One King ~ many subjects

- One Lord ~ many serfs

- One plantation owner ~ many slaves

It would be hard to argue AGAINST the idea that a small collection of jews basically run the show in the modern day... The only reason it's not so identifiable [TO SOME], is because the narrative is not fully completed... There's more consolidation yet to occur... Secondly ~ technology has been utilized, essentially, to dumb people down & provide enough distraction... It's the old story about the turkey who gets fed every day of his life until he becomes Thanksgiving dinner...

Whatever ~ I get 'junked' all the time [for pointing these things out]... Maybe what I don't realize is that people PREFER to be serfs & slaves [at the behest of others]...

But in the end, my 'longwinded' point here is to say that I can relate to DP's exasperation with 9/11 Truth deniers [because, figuratively, it is the same exasperation that I have with folks who line up willingly to be fleeced]...


The Joker's picture

Well said francis.  I second that notion.  Non-truthers ust aren't honest with themselves, they prefer the lie.

DavidPierre's picture

For SmokeyQuinn it is all about his EGO.

He is afraid of the scientific facts.

A  Quinn Quote off of his blog today...

Administrator says:

You should see the ass kicking I’ve been giving David Pierre and his conspiracy butt buddies on Zero Hedge.

That site really attracts nutjobs. They actually think I’m David Pierre. You can’t teach crazy.

9/11 Facts are important.

His ego, and mine for that matter, be damned.

Cathartes Aura's picture

like the ripple effect, awareness radiates outward and informs those around us - if there is denial, or lack of awareness, then those around you will reflect this.

likewise, if more awareness is applied to circumstances, then the effects of increasing awareness will spread. . .

I'd have to agree with you that "nine eleven" is an important litmus test, and anyone who isn't aware by now can't really be taken seriously for other "opinions" offered.

Jim Quinn's picture

You're a psycho nutjob.

What a pitiful life you must be leading to troll websites reading everything I write.

Imbreeding sure has devastating results.

Cathartes Aura's picture

anonymous junking, that's so convincing.

your mocking of ZH posters on your own site is a great idea. . .

the whole truths, or GTFO.


Jim Quinn's picture

Fuck you nutjob. I only mock assholes like yourself and Pepe Le Pew.

Thanks for proving my point.