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Guest Post: Feinstein's Gun Control Bill Will Trigger The Next American Revolution

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market blog,

All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party - Mao Tse Tung

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military - William Burroughs

Revolution?  Yes, it all sounds rather “extreme”, but the cold hard reality of our era is not going to comfort us with diplomacies and niceties, so honestly, why should I have to sugar coat anything?  We live in extreme times and there is no longer room for prancing around the ultimate consequences of that which is taking place in America today.  This country is increasingly sliding towards the edge of internal conflict.  The Liberty Movement and true Constitutionalists see it, subsections of Republicans and Democrats see it, and most of all, the federal government sees it.  In fact, they may even be counting on it. 

Over the past two years alone, multiple draconian policies have been enacted through executive order by the Obama Administration which build upon the civil liberty crushing actions of George W. Bush and press far beyond.  The Patriot Acts, the FISA domestic spy bill, the bailouts of corrupt international banks, attempts at CISPA and SOPA, actions like the NDAA authorizing the treatment of U.S. citizens as “enemy combatants” without rights to due process; all paint a picture so clear only a one-celled amoeba (or your average suburban yuppie) would not see it.  You and I, and everyone else for that matter, have been designated potential targets of the state.  Our rights have been made forfeit.

There is no ambiguous or muddled separation between the citizenry and the government anymore.  The separation is absolute.  It is undeniable.  It is vast.  It is only a matter of time and momentum, and eventually there will be unbridled oppression, dissent, and conflict.  All that is required is a trigger, and I believe that trigger has arrived…       

Though made to appear “complex”, the gun control debate is actually an incredibly simple issue.  It all boils down to a couple of questions which gun grabbers rarely ask:  How does the 2nd Amendment affect the future?  That is to say, what was the original intent, and should we still value that intent as it applies to tomorrow?  And, what will really happen if it is forcibly removed?  Gun opponents act as though they are unaware of these questions, or maybe they don’t care.  However, it is vital to their safety and the safety of our culture in general that they do finally consider the bigger picture. 

We’ve all heard the prefabricated gun control talking points before.  Some of them so old they predate us.  They are numerous and most of them incredibly thin.  The gist of the anti-gun position, though, could be boiled down to these three points...

Common Anti-Gun Arguments:

1) The 2nd Amendment is “outdated” and no longer relevant in today’s modern society.

2) We do not want to stop you from “defending yourself”, or interfere with the American tradition of hunting, but people do not need “military assault weapons” for either.

3) Your claimed freedom to own guns should not supersede my freedom to live without fear of guns.  We exist in a society, and our society requires us to give up certain freedoms so that it can function.

Again, in response to these arguments, I have to ask, what does the 2nd Amendment mean for the future?  What was its original intent?  Gun control advocates would like to ignore the fact that the Constitution specifically protects a broad application of gun ownership, but when they cannot deny the legality of it, they instead turn to more abstract and existential methods of attack.  They try to twist the original intent of the 2nd Amendment to further their goals.  To respond briefly to each of the above fallacies:   

1) The right to self defense from ANY threat, whether it be an individual, or a criminal government, does not “outdate”.  It is a universal and eternal freedom.  It is a foundational pillar of natural law.  Even if the 2nd Amendment did not exist, I would still have the inborn right to arm and protect myself and those I love, and the best way to do that is to own firearms.  The men who drafted the Constitution were far more intelligent than any pithy gun grabber today, yet, these socialist errand boys seem to believe that they have “surpassed” the wisdom of the Founders.  The amount of ego required to fuel such an attitude boggles the mind…

Gun violence and violence in general will not end simply by banning firearms.  The very idea that any society can remove all weapons from their sight is naïve to begin with.  Criminals always find a way.  Murder, rape, and mayhem will continue until you confront the root problem, which is the human mind, and the human heart.  Only when these two things are balanced in all people will violence end.  Disarming good men and women has never made a society “safer”.  When the power of defense is removed from the people, someone, somewhere, will seek to abuse their weakness.  The most armed entity of the time invariably becomes the subjugator, and usually this is the government.  Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc, all contained disarmed populations.  The guns were gone, and still millions upon millions died.  Modern day Mexico is a perfect example of a disarmed population that is now living in terror because of criminal organizations (which, of course, still have guns).  Disarmament does NOT end gun violence, it only changes the dynamic of who uses that violence, and it makes innocent victims easier to attack.

2) Because the legal argument over the “interpretation” of the 2nd Amendment is essentially over, and the Supreme Court has ruled that gun rights do indeed apply to individuals, and not just collective bodies like the National Guard, gun grabbers are now reverting to the argument that we ARE allowed to defend ourselves with firearms, but the kinds of firearms we are able to use can still be limited.  The goal of this argument is to fool gun owners who only possess conventional firearms (hunting rifles) into believing that they will not be personally affected if they support a ban on military style weapons.  These wishy-washy hunting enthusiasts are often referred to as “Elmer Fudds” because of their gullibility.

All gun confiscation programs start by chipping away at the outer barriers of gun ownership.  Like termites slowly chewing away at the wooden skeleton of a home, anti-gun proponents start small and end by destroying the entire edifice.  Anyone who believes Feinstein’s legislation will begin and end with AR-15’s and AK-47’s is living in fantasy land.  That said, the 2nd Amendment was not established for hunting purposes.  Nowhere in the writings of the Founding Fathers do they mention “hunting” as their primary concern.  Instead, gun rights are protected in order to ensure that the citizenry remains dominant over any centralized government that turns to corruption.  We are supposed to police our own political leaders, and without military style arms, this becomes increasingly difficult. 

Gun grabbers will argue that our government is not the enemy because it is derived through democratic elections.  They will say that we can change it anytime we like in the voting box.  I would point out that regardless of which party is placed in power through elections, nothing in terms of our direction as a country has been changed, and, that both parties support almost identical policies.  For instance, Obama has come out in favor of nearly identical policy initiatives to Bush, and I can almost guarantee that many Republicans will sign onto the gun control efforts of Democrats despite their supposed pro-gun rhetoric.  When the two party system becomes a one party system, voting becomes irrelevant. 

Finally, they will admonish the idea of an armed citizenry keeping the government in check as a “fairy tale”.  They will claim that in the face of modern military might, constitutionalists would be crushed.  For what can an AK-47 do to an F-15?  Apparently, they have never heard of Afghanistan, which has used AK-47’s and 30 year old armaments to repel two technologically advanced armies; the Soviet Union and the U.S.  Of course, the Afghanis did not allow themselves to be disarmed…   

3) Here is where we get into the nonsense of intellectual idiocy.  The only real skill which academics seem to have is jumbling piles of logical fallacies together to make a single argument that sounds “rational”, but, in fact, isn’t.  The third debate point is an extremely collectivist one, and collectivist arguments generally exploit the idea that individuals must sacrifice their personal freedoms in order for the group to function. 

The truth is, the group does not matter.  The perceived collective concerns and fears of a mass of people are not relevant.  All that matters are the concerns of the singular man or woman, and whether or not those concerns are legitimate.  If a person “fears” guns and gun violence, then that is their private problem, not the problem of our entire society.  We as gun owners should not have to relinquish our rights because others are afraid of what MIGHT happen to them.  We should demand that they control THEIR fear, instead of being allowed to control OUR guns.  Just because a portion of our country shares this individual fear does not make that fear any more credible, or any more our problem.      

Do They Know What They Are In For...?

Feinstein’s campaign for gun control is not hers alone; it has been the overall establishment’s work in progress for decades.  I covered the broad based arguments of gun control advocates above because I wanted to illustrate the tangibility of gun ownership.  I want to show you where we stand as constitutionalists, and I can say confidently that our moral and intellectual footing is strong.  To be clear, when defenders of a particular idea are right in their position, they are much more likely to fight and die for that position, and they are much more likely to win.  

In the beginning I asked what the 2nd Amendment means for the future of this country.  Not only if it continues, but if it disappears.  If I was a gun control proponent, I would weigh the aftereffects of my actions carefully, because the penalties will likely be dire…

I have heard it argued that Americans are passive.  We didn’t rise up against the last Assault Weapons Ban. We didn’t rise up against the Patriot Act.  We didn’t rise up against TSA molestation.  We didn’t rise up against warrantless wiretapping, the assassination of U.S. citizens, or even the NDAA.  The people who make this point, though, are not looking at the larger issue.  It is one thing for our government to pass legislation; the wider application of that legislation on our streets and at our doorsteps is another matter. 

Feinstein’s bill is unprecedented in the history of this country, and requires widespread enforcement in every town and hamlet in order to be effective.  The way in which it is designed makes a violent response from the public inevitable.  It reaches far beyond the Assault Weapons Ban of the 1990’s, calling for the creation of a massive database of almost all gun owners in the United States.  This database will require citizens to submit their EXISTING firearms to cataloging, and the owners to be filed and fingerprinted like criminals. 

The bill will ban the outright the sale, manufacture, and transfer of at least 120 models of firearms (which have not yet been named).  It will ban the manufacture and sale of most if not all semi-automatic rifles and the bill specifically targets handguns as well.  Large capacity mags and mag fed weapons will essentially disappear from gun stores.  Though, those guns designated as “hunting rifles” will be exempt (for now).

Feinstein has also openly agreed with NY Governor Andrew Cuomo that government buy back programs (forced selling of firearms at a reduced price) and even physical confiscations are on the table:

To put this bluntly, there are approximately 50 million gun owners (according to official estimates) in the United States.  If only 2% of those gun owners refuse to submit to the Feinstein Database, and the feds attempt confiscation, they will have a massive revolution on their hands.

Many Americans, including myself, will not be strolling into the local Fusion Center to register our weapons.  Why?  Because gun registration reeks of fascism!  Some might call this “cliche”, but let’s just examine the guidelines of the Nazi Gun Registration Program of 1938:

- Classified guns for "sporting purposes"

- All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with the Nazi officials and have a background check.

- Presumed German citizens were hostile and thereby exempted Nazis from the gun control law (meaning officials could have guns, citizens could not).

- Gave Nazis unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.

- The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.

- Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.

You see, we’ve witnessed the Feinstein gun bill before, many times through history.  We know how it ends, so, there is very little incentive for us to go along quietly.

The database itself is truly the crux of it all.  It basically begs to be defied.  When a government has become openly hostile to common people, destructive of their economy, and oppressive of their individual rights, it only follows that gun registration will lead to outright confiscation later down the road or imprisonment for the owner.  Many Americans are simply not going to fall into the same trap that past societies have fallen into.  The eventual refusal of millions of citizens to voluntarily register will lead to a definite federal response. 

The Department Of Homeland Security has obviously taken this into account, at least partly, by stockpiling over 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the span of a year, most of which are used in weapons distributed by the government for domestic enforcement.  Their projected scenario, I believe, involves limited resistance from people like myself; “gun nuts” and “liberty freaks” who are on the “fringe” of the populous.  At least, that’s what the headlines will say.  In the end, who will care if a few “conspiracy theorists” take a bullet in the quest to end gun violence, right?  But then again…

What I see in America is a much harder stance against gun confiscation than at any time in recent memory, and far less compromising than in the 1990’s.  Gun grabbers are, in my view, walking into a hornets nest.  Most average firearms enthusiast may be less aware of the deeper problems at hand, but they know when they are about to be raped, and will react in kind.  We in the Liberty Movement are often accused of “radicalizing” people against government authority, but I have to say, if that is the case, then the Feds are doing a much better job than we ever could.

Simultaneously, the UN (which most gun owners despise) is helping matters along by using the recent Sandy Hook shooting as a springboard for a reintroduction of their failed international Small Arms Treaty:

"European and other U.N. delegates who support the arms trade treaty told Reuters on condition of anonymity they hoped Newtown would boost support for the convention in the United States, where gun control is an explosive political issue."

"Newtown has opened the debate within the United States on weapons controls in ways that it has not been opened in the past," Abramson said, adding that "the conversation within the U.S. will give the (Obama) administration more leeway."

The UN has always claimed that their small arms treaty would NOT restrict private gun ownership in the U.S., and that it only deals with the international trade of illicit arms.  Yet, they try to use gun control actions in the face of Sandy Hook as a rationale for reopening negotiations?  They can't have it both ways.  Either they are trying to tie the treaty to domestic gun ownership in the U.S, or they aren't.  Will our government sign on to an international agreement to restrict private gun ownership on top of Feinstein's gun grab bill?  

To put this in the most basic terms: registration and restriction equals revolution.  Count on it.  It is not a matter of what we "want", it is a matter of what is necessary.  Without a citizenry armed with weapons of military application, we lose our last deterrent to tyranny, and thus, we lose everything.  When backed into a corner, a victim has two options: he can lie down and die, or, he can fight regardless of the odds.  Sadly, this is where we are in America; fear, servitude, subservience, or civil war.

Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws - Edward Abbey


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Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:58 | 3102157 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture


"And once again, I’m ashamed to report to you gentlemen... ...I stood down!"


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:29 | 3102293 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Summing up America in one photo

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:20 | 3102721 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:25 | 3102742 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Yes.I suspect that reality will differ much from rhetoric.There´s been a lot of talk of guns,gold and grub last years.Sad truth is that when they come for the guns - all will be handed over.

Having had two years of military training - light infantry type of activity - I know that it´s hard work.There are different rules of thumb for min. standards for an effective force.One was that you should be able to run (or more jog or trot) with all your gear and do 7 miles under 55 minutes.Another one was that you had to develop outdoors skills.You had to be able to live outdoors for three weeks,sleeping without any shelter - in all kinds of weather and subsisting on what you could carry.And this you would be doing over and over again.I don´t think the guy in the photo will (be able to) put up a lot of resistence.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:03 | 3103416 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

He doesn't need to run around carrying a battle rifle to be effective at aiding some future resistance.  Maybe he works in a federal office and flushes sponges down all the toilets once in a while, or sets off a smoke bomb now and again, or mails baggies of non-descript powder.  Maybe he works in supply and misallocates shipments - or enters poor data - or works at the DHS and acts as an informant.  Maybe he just "slips at work" and goes on disability to avoid paying taxes to the beast.

Lots of opportunities to be a PITA without being Rambo.

Not that I would ever advocate for such actions, but it seems to have been good enough for the CIA in Nicaragua:

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:35 | 3103499 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



The point is not if Fatso Americano could rebel, it is that he will choose not to rebel. 

Hey lard ass, tell us which of your skinny neighbors have illegal guns and you can keep your Church's Chicken, leased Suburban, 24-hour CVS pharmacy, Dancing With The Hasbeens, and 124 ounce caffeinated sugar drinks.  Deal?

What is he going to say?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:53 | 3103612 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I'm guessing that the ratio of Sheep to Sheepdogs, to Wolves is pretty consistant over time.  What percentage of the French were involved in the resistance against the Nazis?  My guess is that as the situation deteriorates here, a movement will grow - as will the oppression.  I think that's inevitable at this point.

Of course it also depends on where you live.  I think country folk tend to stick together more when it comes to outsiders - especially when it's the federales telling them what they can do.

On a happy note, the Seattle Times had a pro-disarmament op ed published the other day (no opposing position, of course) and the comments were more than 95% against any gun bans.  I was very surprised.

I'm very curious how many LEOs would comply with this proposed ban. . .


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 22:02 | 3103930 Edelweiss
Edelweiss's picture

 Over the past week or so I spent time looking for articles on sites considered "left leaning" to see what kinds of comments were made about gun control.  I found a surprising number of pro second amendment posts.  Some were obviously trolls there to stir the pot, as is the case on any site.  Relatively few of the posts were staunchly anti gun.  Even on sites like "mother jones".  Hardly a conservative think tank.  A good number of people see it for what it is, the exploitation of a horrific event to further a statist  agenda.  Feinstein said on NBC's "meet the press", that this bill has been in the works for a year.  Just waiting for the right opportunity to trot out this piece of shit.   

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 11:27 | 3104485 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

We are already in a civil war, it is just a slow boil one, like Venezuela. But civil war is ineviable, because we have made future generations indentured debt slaves. The young will revolt of necessity rather than courage when the full bill comes due.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:43 | 3102083 Redneck Hippy
Redneck Hippy's picture

Would the author really take up arms against U.S. troops?  Does his silly militia expect to stand up to the U.S. Marines? 

This is just testosterone fueled bullshit.

Nobody really needs an assault rifle.  The argument that we need protection from our government would apply as well to suitcase nukes.  

There will be no civil war, just a bunch of disgruntled red necks running their mouths.  If you really must keep your gun, move to Somalia.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:48 | 3102096 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Does his silly militia expect to stand up to the U.S. Marines?

Yeah!  Who does the author think he is?  The Viet Cong?


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:51 | 3102121 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

This guys a Toyota driver, you can tell...

Good god man, the pictures changed...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:01 | 3102164 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



This is just testosterone fueled bullshit.

Nobody really needs an assault rifle. no attention to the woman in the photo defeating U.S. Marines with an assault rifle.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:02 | 3102176 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

She probably married one after that, and went to live in America...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:21 | 3102724 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Or she saw that Communism was complete bullshit, a way for the North to get all the VC killed off during Tet. -- Maybe she saw the light, moved to America, and opened up a restaurant where they serve great Pho.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:52 | 3102842 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

or maybe she is the parent of a child suffering the after effects of being sprayed with Agent Orange,

Beginning in 1961, U.S. and South Vietnamese forces sprayed 20 million gallons of it and other herbicides over vast areas of South Vietnam and parts of Laos and Cambodia. The spraying denuded more than 8,600 square miles of jungle and cropland. The U.S. military stopped using Agent Orange in 1971 after the National Institutes of Health found that it contained a chemical contaminant that caused birth defects in lab animals. By then, hundreds of thousands of U.S. soldiers and millions of Vietnamese civilians had been in contact with the stuff, many of them so oblivious to its dangers that they bathed in water stored in the empty barrels.

[...]the rate of birth defects in Vietnam has quadrupled since the war, and that most of them occur where Agent Orange was sprayed or stored. Vietnamese scientists blame dioxin contamination for a broad range of birth defects, from blood disorders to clubfeet.

and too busy to make yer dinner.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:11 | 3102214 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

not to mention al qaida. someone here the other day mentioned how theyve stymied the us military for ten years with a high school level understanding of chemistry and the afghan equivalent of radio shack

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:32 | 3102312 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

high school level understanding of chemistry


After seeing the latest test scores, this is quite a statment!!  

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:32 | 3102550 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

lol. but that is what makes their effective resistance so remarkable.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:17 | 3102242 mercenaryomics
mercenaryomics's picture

hh, you're one of my zh heroes. 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:51 | 3102126 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

Either you're rather ignorant, or just whore for stiring things up.  Most marines would fight against this government if it came down to a civil war. 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:43 | 3102584 Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

You greatly, greatly overestimate the critical thinking skills of brain washed 20 year olds.


They will gladly fight domestic"terrorists" and chomp at the bit to do it.


As will DHS.


It's not going to be a "war" - it will be 'police actions' on the more troublesome.


And Americans will cheer it, and comment approvingly on the Fox and CNN websites.


They've already won the information war...  Alex Jones' silence on Israel's complicity in running 9/11, and who his sponsors are, should tell you all you need to know.


Let's just hope the Joint Chiefs know the score.


Frankly, citing the overwhelming evidence of Israeli and Pentagon complicity in 9/11 would be a great excuse to overthrow the civilian government, or so I've read on certain websites.


Still think resistance is going to have to be non-violent and clever as hell to work.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:17 | 3103232 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Non violent and clever?

sounds pretty fucking gay to me, I'll pass and take all the violent dullards you can ship.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:58 | 3102145's picture


If you really must keep your gun, move to Somalia.


Because Chicago has strict gun control laws and it's nothing like Somalia.


Fatal West Side Shooting Is City’s 500th Homicide This Year December 28, 2012 6:09 AM

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:54 | 3102405 Agent P
Agent P's picture


Anyone who argues stricter gun control leads to reduced gun violence should be made to publicly explain Chicago crime statistics.  And for those who think 500 is a reasonably small number for a city the size of Chicago, I urge you to look into the number of shootings up there that do not result in a fatality...I hope to God I'm never in a gun fight, but if I am, please let it be against one of these thugs who likes to hold his gun sideways and above his line of sight.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:12 | 3102432 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I hope pray to God I'm never in a gun fight, but if I am, please let it be against one of these thugs who likes to hold his gun sideways and above his line of sight...

...sticking his gun's muzzle right up in my face.  Amen.

Item 7

Complete the following courses in this order:

1. One half-day tactical folding knife class; $150.

2. 2-3 weekends of Tactical Pistol Courses; $1,000.

3. 2-3 weekends of Tactical Rifle Courses; $1,000.

4. One day of Self and Family Emergency Medical Aid/Trauma Kit Course; $150.

5. A series of several two-hour self-defense classes (not martial arts classes); $200.

6. Fulfillment of requirements for concealed handgun permit; $250.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:49 | 3102476 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

5. A series of several two-hour self-defense classes (not martial arts classes); $200.

Hapkido and/or Krav Maga are excellent choices.

(private *focused* lessons with the Hapkido)

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:52 | 3102615 viahj
viahj's picture

"please let it be against one of these thugs who likes to hold his gun sideways and above his line of sight."

in a quick draw scenario, if you look down and parrallel to the side of the firearm it is reasonably accurate in close quarters but yeah, that over the head shit is retarded.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:51 | 3102836 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

No problem shooting ghetto style with Birdman's "Homeboy Nyte Sytes":

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:06 | 3102192 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

It doesn't have to be Lexington and Concord for an effective revolution. Revolutions work when the people who are revolting reach a critical mass and call the government's bluff. Let's say you and your friends achieve your fondest dream and the Feinstein bill passes. And let's say that just 5% of the 50 million gun owners refuse to register their guns. That is a reasonable number I would argue. That 2.5 million lawbreakers. What does the government do then? Clearly there will be millions of unregistered guns out there. Do they arrest 2.5 million people and put them into prison? What happens when an owner uses his un-registered gun to defend himself and is arrested for it?

The statists always count on passive acceptance of their liberty-restricting policies. But a failure of their gun control law would break that facade. Once people get a taste of liberty and their own power to assert it (ala the French in 1789) it will be impossible for the statists to put the genie back in the bottle. They are playing with nitro glycerin here.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:21 | 3102257 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The MSM will report 99.99% compliance.  The ATF will stage a raid or two.  Then they simply wait out the holdouts.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:28 | 3102289 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

That's definitely the strategy that would be used. A combination of mass-image-media propaganda and a few heavily mass media covered "enforcement" operations.  That would cow a lot of people.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:31 | 3102305 Freddie
Freddie's picture

F All of TV and ALL of Hollywood.   Fox News is not any better too. Murdoch was for banning guns an hour after the CT false flag.

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 03:43 | 3104278 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

They already tried it with the Branch Davidian raid and it didn't work.   NRA membership and gun sales increased drastically, the Dems were handily defeated in 1994 and the whole Clinton gun grab failed.  And do you remember the Randy Weaver incident?  Another Janet Reno epic fail and the end of any further attempt at gun control until now.  (Weaver, a decorated green beret single handily held off an entire swat team from the ATF for days, killing several, which shows you what incompetents work for gun grabbers.  The idiots shot his son's dog and the son, killed the sniper with his hunting rifle)  And if they try it again the NRA will hand them their hides again.  Its still 4M strong and we know how to shoot and reload unlike most police who aren't NRA members (many many miliary and police are NRA members and won't support any government gun grab).

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:41 | 3102534 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



And let's say that just 5% of the 50 million gun owners refuse to register their guns. That is a reasonable number I would argue. That 2.5 million lawbreakers. What does the government do then?

I'll tell you exactly what they'll do. Once the registration window closes, anyone caught with an unregistered firearm will draw a mandatory no-questions-asked no-appeal 10 yr prison sentence.

There.  Now they don't have to go after the rest.   Just wait for somebody to produce an unregistered firearm, like defending themselves in a home robbery, shooting the intruder.   That's it, they go to prison.

This is why piecemeal resistance won't work.  It never has worked. 

There has to be a full-on revolution, like the French Revolution where everybody stormed the palace, overwhelmed the guards, dragged the king & queen out, gave 'em a quick trial, and beheaded them.

But that won't happen in America.  You can't rally enough of the population to do something like that. 

And it's not just a king & queen now, it's thousands of bureaucrats scattered all over.  No way could you round 'em all up even if you had a million armed revolting people on the march.

The military won't follow orders to go against the people?

No problem, they're being kept out of the country so 4+ million federalized domestic LE (mercenaries) can do it without interference from the military. They'll gladly turn their weapons on Americans, they do it every day now, many really enjoying that macho feeling of control.  They'd gun down a whole crowd of Americans if ordered to, and high-five each other when they're done.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:44 | 3102586 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Just wait for somebody to produce an unregistered firearm, like defending themselves in a home robbery, shooting the intruder.   That's it, they go to prison.

But you've just made my point. That's exactly why the gun control plan won't work, because what you wrote will happen over and over. Imagine the visceral reaction of the public to the gun owner who pleads "what was I supposed to do? Let the bad guy kill me and rape my wife?" with his wife and little children crying in the background as he is led away to prison. That happens more than a few times and "boom" the revolution happens.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:38 | 3102760 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



That happens more than a few times and "boom" the revolution happens.

How STUPID can you be?

You'll NEVER HEAR ABOUT IT.  Remember that controlled media we have?  No, you'll never hear about it.

...and that wife will be threatened with "obstruction of justice" charges, her own prison sentence (and CPS taking her kids) if she says one word to the press.

What part of "police state" do you not understand MORON?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:54 | 3103378 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Faith is a myth until it's not.

That's where the blogosphre and people like most ZH'ers come in. 

MSM is gasping for credibility and bernankebux to continue the meme...

Holiday family gatherings were a sobering (albeit positive) tell. On either side of Uncle Santa were discussions of corruption, banking, civil rights and the rule of law.

Even the former sheep are growing fangs. "Unified family front" was my favorite phrase of Christmas Eve.

Silver bars were distibuted in Christmas Cards.

Hear that capitol hill?




Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:24 | 3102737 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

as much as i hate to admit it, i think you might be right about those roided out mercenaries. a lot of them are just set on kill and dont really think about or care about the implication of their actions. i hope youre wrong but things arent looking good right now.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:36 | 3103299 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

natural selection.

it's in the name, they're paid to do what they're told.

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 06:48 | 3104296 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

There certainly won't be a spontaneous uprising across the country.  Lets just take California.  Lets say a couple of dozen rednecks in Colfax decide to shut down I80.  In a week the bay area food shelves are empty, EBT stops working.  Armed and rioting negroids, gangbangers and chicanos rise up across Feinsteins home turf in South SF, Oakland, Berkley.  As in the LA riots the police cannot deal with it and her precious pacific heights queer pals are sent squealing across the golden gate bridge.  Up come the national guard from ford Ord but they never make it through San Jose.... 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:40 | 3102328 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

Just how many Marines do you think there are?  And what makes you think they are loyal to an unconstitutional order?

You should check out Oathkeepers before you post such bullshit...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:56 | 3102413 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Very true. I had a conversation with my friend the other day, he's a full bird colonel in the Army reserve. He commands a few hundred "locals", they will not blindly follow unconstitutional orders and attack their neighbors. They may very well turn towards DC if need be.

Civil war part deux need not be a hot war...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:58 | 3102418 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

The Oathkeepers will be the second bunch to voluntarily turn in their guns, right after the zionist Alex Jones morons.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:14 | 3102684 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Oathkeepers is bullshit when many of them are out of the country terrorizing other nations, gunning people down, under the very same type orders they claim they'll refuse here at home.

It's pure sickening hypocrisy.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:53 | 3102384 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Redneck Hippy, "This is just testosterone fueled bullshit."

You need to up your testosterone it sounds like. You probably have so much estrogenic poison in your system you weigh 150lb's at 25% body fat.

The DHS did not buy 2.6 BILLION ROUNDS OF AMMO for shits and giggles.

I think most of the military is on our side, the Constitutional side. DHS might be another story.

Testosterone is good. Being big and strong is good. Besides, chix dig it. Head on over to and get back to us when you can deadlift 3x your body weight.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:54 | 3102628 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

I think Blackwater (now Xe) is another story also, think what they could do for the "cause"  care to guess what side  they would they be on.

I recommend reading Jeremy Scahill's book Blackwater-The rise Of The World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army. published by MJF books.

Blackwater run by a guy named Erik Prince, this guy belives he is doing gods work,  and is a rightwing fundamentalist Christian,   he has his own private army, and will work for who will pay him.

From the Economist.

In an affidavit lodged with a court in Virginia, one of the witnesses said that Mr Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe." The statement continues

To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades.

Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis."




Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:54 | 3102850 XitSam
XitSam's picture

FYI - Blackwater & Xe are now Academi.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:36 | 3103300 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

I am a little behind in my reading, thanks for the link,

From said Link...

In 2009, Prince announced that he would relinquish involvement in the company's day-to-day business in December, along with some of his ownership rights. He also said he considered becoming a teacher.[31] In late 2010, Prince moved to Abu Dhabi, where he subsequently started another security services company, Reflex Responses.[32]

In 2011, former NSA head and CIA executive Bobby Ray Inman became the head of Xe's board of directors.[33] In May 2011, Xe named Ted Wright as CEO.[34] Wright hired a new governance chief to oversee ethical and legal compliance and established a new board composed of former government officials, including Jack Quinn, former Clinton adviser, and John Ashcroft.[35] In December 2011, Xe changed its name again, to "Academi". The name refers to Plato's Academy[2] and is meant, according to Ted Wright, to reflect a more "boring" image.[38]

Bobby Ray Inman was a member of the Board of Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas (as Chairman, 1987-90)

Jack Quinn Democrat and member of Council on Foreign Relations

Old John is a scary son of a gun,


Ashcroft studied law at Yale, and promptly secured a position teaching law at Southwest Missouri State University -- a job which carried the perk of immunity from the Vietnam era draft. . In vetoing funding for an AIDS care center, he was quoted saying, "Well, they're there because of their own misconduct, and it wasn't very reputable misconduct, either."

 He became one of the first politicians to advocate federal funding for "faith-based programs", and earned perfect marks from the Christian Coalition. When asked whether he had any problem legislating morality, Ashcroft once explained, "I think all we should legislate is morality. We shouldn't legislate immorality."

After September 11, 2001, Ashcroft was generally credited as 'architect' of the PATRIOT Act, which established several short cuts to circumvent such traditional and constitutional safeguards as search warrants and judicial oversight of police. Ashcroft authorized secret arrests and detentions, expanded wiretapping, blocked Freedom of Information Act requests, OK'd eavesdropping on defense lawyers and infiltration of political protest groups. He tried to organize a nationwide "tips" line for mail carriers, home repairmen, delivery drivers and others whose occupations bring them in contact with the general public to report suspicious activity. For all this effort, however, Ashcroft had surprisingly few successful prosecutions against terrorists, and the Justice Dept was caught several times playing "shell games" with the numbers. For example, crimes such as writing bad checks or protesters trespassing on a Navy base were listed as "terror convictions", despite having no cited connection to any acts of terrorism.

He has said he was anointed with oil "in the manner of King David" as he took each successive political office in his career. When he became a Senator his father anointed him with Crisco brand cooking oil, and died the next day. Before becoming Attorney General, Ashcroft had Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas do the anointing.

Since leaving the Bush administration, Ashcroft has pursued his first private sector employment since his Dairy Queen days -- his services are now available as a lobbyist. His clients include Choicepoint, Israel Aircraft Industries International, and Oracle Corporation. .


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:29 | 3103512 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

check this out DapperD,

Prince of Blackwater heads to Africa


Erik Prince, who made a fortune in Iraq thanks to his politically connected and controversial Blackwater military contractor, is leading a group of Chinese investors on a hunt for natural resources and investment opportunities in Africa.


Erik Prince, the man who founded Blackwater, the private military contractor that became synonymous with mercenary excess during the Iraq war, has apparently begun a bold new business venture: He's going to be investing with a group of unnamed Chinese government-linked companies in resource extraction and infrastructure in sub-Saharan Africa.

he's always been one to watch. . .

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:48 | 3102111 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

The peasants are revolting - no really they are revolting

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:16 | 3102238 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Bollocks?  Another idiot from the UK.  Even Canadians aren't dumb enough to use "bollocks."  How's that sharia creep working out for you guys?  Land of No Hope and No Glory.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:17 | 3102248 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

And Feinstein who carried because it let her "feel safe" is a total idiot too. Oddly I have not seen Bloomberg on the subway lately. Got to watch out for those attack subways and all you know.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:22 | 3102264 Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

Junked or not - thou art correct.

Most of America will cheer as militarized local police start busting down doors {no warrants needed} to get the "right wingers" and "tea partiers" who want to take away their free medical care and obama phones.


I could give a shit about guns because the military and DHS have so much firepower, the 'defend against tyranny' ship has absosmurfly sailed. 


We are more able to defend against the coming information wall-off by the likes of the Joe Liebermans of the world...  but probably, we won't.


In fact, as we're debating guns I suspect the gubmit will begin to move on curtailing your right to go to alternative media sites.  I could be wrong - but I'm more worried about not being able to get accurate news out of Iran and Syria than I am about being able to "resist" an army with an assault rifle.


The government is already at war with the American people - the front line is everywhere.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:12 | 3102699 Bloodstock
Bloodstock's picture

Me thinks that you are the idiot, still listening to the daily news with no street smarts. 

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:30 | 3102701 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Harlequinee001 said:  "What a load of bollocks. Do you really think that Americans are any different than anyone else on this planet?"

You may be right, but at one time over 200 years ago, Americans were different. We formed a Republic and recognized God given rights. An upstart nation of commoners took on the greatest empire on the globe and won. And there were those in the world who deeply resented this. It was an example for their subjects/serfs which they wanted to erase. That nation of commoners and those who fled to America later built a prosperous nation.

For more than 100 years there has been a concerted effort to erase American citizens memory of their history and foundational principles. Is there enough of a memory still left ?  Who knows. That memory seems very dim at times. Hopefully there's still some left.

Its a battle of ideas now, a battle for peoples hearts and minds. This includes the guys with the guns - - - - the troops and police who are as much victims of these criminal parasites, as are all of us.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:33 | 3102048 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Let the cocksuckers in Congress pass a gun free zone in D.C. and then send all their armed guards home. Same with all the bankers and other elites that travel with multitudes of armed guards.

They know this doesn't work and only want us 99%ers disarmed and helpless. Fuck that.

The shooter in Newtown didn't use the "assault" rifle as has been bantered about for the past couple of weeks. Now what is that cunt Feinstein going to use as an excuse?

This gun grab won't work. I personally won't be turning in nor registering any of my guns. That being said, why do I have to become a criminal when my possession of arms is enshrined in our constitution? I know that the Supreme Court is bought off (review last minute Obamacare ruling change) so I guess I can't count on them to overturn any gun ban. I hope it does bring revolution, it is certainly what the congress seems to be looking for what with all the laws they've been passing lately.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:22 | 3102263 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

As we know, the definition of an assault rifle is based on a fully automatic firearm that can shoot controlled bursts. Conversion of an AR-15 to an AR-16 with AR-16 parts is possible, but in violation of the 1968 act. Fine, I do not need a full auto. It is possible that I might be able to get one legally, but I have no desire to chew through money that fast firing it. Reloaded 38 wadcutter works fine at the range. The 358 Magnum frangible is reserved for when I need it for keeps.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:39 | 3102340 Oquities
Oquities's picture

i grew up near Flint, Michigan like Michael Moore.  i am proud to say my good friend from high school punched Moore when they were teens.  he could not travel safely in North Flint, and he knows it.  but he doesn't have to go back to Flint, the city whose rep he helped to diminish.  others must live there however, and self defense is mandatory there.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:55 | 3102634 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Fat scum Moore lives in Traverse City in North north MI with about 98% white people and many have a good amount of money.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 20:34 | 3103741 Carbine
Carbine's picture

They also have a big bunch of guns Freddie and they are not going to give them up to the likes of Mooreon.  He's got a few liberal buddies up that way, but he's surrounded by NRA members.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:34 | 3102766 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Oquities said:  "i grew up near Flint, Michigan like Michael Moore. i am proud to say my good friend from high school punched Moore when they were teens."

Hopefully, he kicked him in the nuts . . . if he has any, that is

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:29 | 3102301 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture


You mean a crisis like a "lone gunman" going into an elemetary school and killing 6 year olds?  Expect more of that to happen.  They cant let a crisis go to waste and if there is no real crisis, why not just make one?

Gun control should start with the government.  The goverment should STOP giving guns to mexican drug cartels.  That would be a good place to start.  They should also stop giving guns to Al Quieda and the muslim brotherhood.

The US government is the worst offender at using guns illegally.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:27 | 3102525 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Dear Criminal Elected Officials, please read the following:


On 29 April 1945, the bodies of Mussolini, Petacci, and the other executed Fascists were loaded into a moving van and trucked south to Milan. There, at 3:00 am, they were dumped on the ground in the old Piazzale Loreto. The piazza had been renamed "Piazza Quindici Martiri" in honor of 15 anti-Fascists recently executed there.[122]

After being shot, kicked, and spat upon, the bodies were hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of an Esso gas station. The bodies were then stoned by civilians from below. This was done both to discourage any Fascists from continuing the fight and as an act of revenge for the hanging of many partisans in the same place by Axis authorities. The corpse of the deposed leader became subject to ridicule and abuse. Fascist loyalist Achille Starace was captured and sentenced to death and then taken to the Piazzale Loreto and shown the body of Mussolini. Starace, who once said of Mussolini "He is a god,"[123] saluted what was left of his leader just before he was shot. The body of Starace was subsequently strung up next to the body of Mussolini.


 The Fatherland- Socialist/Nazi Germany

 The Motherland - Communist Russia

 The Homeland? – An Unspeakable Bastard crossbreed of the two above!


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:45 | 3102815 rotagen
rotagen's picture

Fighting Organized crime requires intelligence, don't waste bullets on the tools like policemen, riot squads.  The only way this would work is precision hits on the creature from Jekyll Island.  You'd have to hit the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with sniper rifles and send a clear message to the CFR and bilderbergers.

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 08:40 | 3104389 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

If you're not willing to give up everything, you've already lost.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:06 | 3101928 irie1029
irie1029's picture

Didn't you say Obama was not going to get reelected? Obamacare never upheld.. LOL  Do not bet on anything from this f'd up government.  

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:14 | 3101959 Karlus
Karlus's picture

I am the last one here, the last one, to trust the government. I truly hate and despise it. I love our country...the people, still undecided.

Bottom line is this is the red line. Yeah, they will try and pass the assault weapon ban because the people took it in 1994 and will most likely take it again.

But I am in the cold dead hands camp,

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:18 | 3102251 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

We're going to need more ammo.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:36 | 3102558 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

Learn to reload.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:53 | 3103606 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

and swim.

and... keep the powder dry.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:46 | 3102099 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Exactly...people say 'Aw this will never pass!' they said the same about a whole lot of other stuff that just sailed right thru....whats stopping them? Nothing...well 'yet' anyway.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:10 | 3102460 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Larry the Cable Guy on the Constitution:

"They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq...why don't we just give them ours?  It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it has worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 17:13 | 3102948 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Return to States rights and limited federal powers as intended, problem solved.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:07 | 3101931 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Better pray to whatever god of your choice it doesn't..

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:11 | 3101948 N57Mike
N57Mike's picture

... and we also thought the Supreme Court would strike down parts of Obamacare, that group too are spoiling for this fight now & attack Ammendment II.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:10 | 3101945 Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

It will pass, and if it doesn't, I believe there's a UN treaty which, somehow, now days people believes comes into effect and trumps the Constitution even if it's just signed by the Prez.


I know treaties ratified by the Senate trump conflicting law, but I believe {correct me??} that it's still unclear if an international treaty could actually trump the Constitution...


I think the smart notion would be, no, you need to *amend* the Constitution to change it - an international treaty shouldn't be able to effectively amend the Constitution...   but since right and left love to conflate social policy goals with legal analysis, anything like a smart or common sense approach to it is basically DOA.


I do think they'll soft show it for a while... voluntary turn ins, buy backs, fines... but presumably DHS *could* be a last resort in a couple years.


I don't care - I think the real warfare is going to be electronic.  I'm much, much more worried about what they're planning to do to the internet and DNS servers.   You can have a dozen AR-15s and a suitcase of hand grenades and you aren't going to hold off the tax man, let alone DHS.


But some sort fo electromagnetic pulse weapon at just the right spot?


mmm, mmm, mmm - that's sexy.



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:27 | 3102019 seek
seek's picture

It's actually considered a settled question that treaties do not override the constitution. There were some twisted legal constructs arguing otherwise around the 1950s, but they were turned to ash.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:30 | 3102303 Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

Ah - good to know, I stand corrected. Danke.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 19:13 | 3102590 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"I don't care - I think the real warfare is going to be electronic. I'm much, much more worried about what they're planning to do to the internet and DNS servers. You can have a dozen AR-15s and a suitcase of hand grenades and you aren't going to hold off the tax man, let alone DHS."

If we go to alternate currancies/barter - the taxman's going to to have a pretty tough time.

The front lines on this fight will be our local police, etc. tasked with supporting the federal goon-squads.  If our local enforcement entities aid any resistance - the goons are going to have a very tough time.

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 08:26 | 3104379 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 a treaty has the force of law. constitutions are above common laws and treaties

this UN "thing" is about international trade

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:30 | 3102036 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture


Thomas Jefferson was clear on this point: "If the treaty power is unlimited, then we don't have a Constitution. Surely the President and the Senate cannot do by treaty what the whole government is interdicted from doing in any way."

Alexander Hamilton agreed: "a treaty cannot be made which alters the Constitution of the country or which infringes any express exceptions to the power of the Constitution of the United States." 

However, does that matter?

Constitutional rights have evidently already been “infringed” in many areas:
undeclared warfare and so-called Homeland police laws.
government secrecy and disinformation, freedom of speech, and of the press;
the right of the people peaceably to assemble
against unreasonable searches and seizures
cruel and unusual punishments inflicted
due process
speedy trial
oversight of war powers by the People, through Congress.
regulation of money/finance by Congress.
and corporations, no longer being limited legal constructs of the state, but lately invested with legally inviolable “citizen rights” solidifying corporate dominance of the legislative process.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:35 | 3102062 Athenian
Athenian's picture

No, an international treaty cannot trump the US constitution. Thank goodness for that.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:49 | 3102115 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

U.S. Constitution gets trumped and trampled on every day! Did the constitution stop them from bailing out foreign banks at taxpayer expense? Patriot Act? NDAA? Warrantless wiretaps? 


Anyone still with some delusion that theres a piece of paper stopping these lunatics from doing whatever they feel like is just delusional.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:43 | 3102361 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

Maybe this will be the straw that broke the Camel's back? 



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 17:22 | 3102993 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

Titus, you are correct when you say you will not hold off a large group, but, it's about 1 at a time and are you prepared to die for your liberty. As 1 or maybe a group of 3 or 4 with that attitude you could do serious damage to a number of whoever. The question is, are they ready to give up their life for their "job". It's all about your belief in keeping your freedom and not living under a dictator or under tyranny. I have prepared myself that this might become a reality and at 68 I have little to lose and being younger, they have everything to lose.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:20 | 3101981 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Tend to agree with you.  It has, however, provided an opportunity for us to smoke out the tyrants and totalitarians in our midst.

Ultimately - we either have a Constitutional Republic, or we don't. It's that simple.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:22 | 3101988 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

The problem with this whole premise of "a well armed citizenry" that could face down the tyranny of the government, is we gave that up years ago, with the patriot act(s), homeland security dept, military weapons buildup of state and local police forces, TSA, etc!!!

I was just in a sheriffs facility in the Southwest, and they had an "armory" with thousands of semi-automatic and confiscated automatic weapons, hand guns, tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, a sniper training range, several armored personel carriers for SWAT, helicopters, etc! It was shocking to see that a local county sheriffs dept was armed like this!!!

I'm absolutely against any new gun registration and fingerprinting laws, but I think it's also time for each American to realize, that no where has the Constituation been made more irrelevant from its intentions in 1776, then the post World War II realities of the 2nd Amendment!!!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:40 | 3102077 L_Conquistador
L_Conquistador's picture

You're assuming that all of the members of the military and the police would remain loyal to the regime.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:47 | 3102106 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

And you're assuming they wouldn't off people for the fuck of it.  When things become that desperate most of them will protect their own, both their families and most probably their colleagues.  Those with weapons such as these will just kill/murder a ton more a ton faster.  But hey what the hell, Americans love a good action flick.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:49 | 3102117 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Most all will remain loyal, when shown a few other dissenters getting shot in the head.

They're good at this shit...been practicing it for centuries.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:57 | 3102147 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Yes!  I agree.

There will be rewards for oppressing and severe penalties for dissenting... for the LEOs out there who have been fed a steady diet of "thin blue line" and how they're the nation's heroes keeping "back the night".

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:55 | 3102140 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

There are oathkeepers but if things get to that point, these GED/HS grads are going to make sure that they and their families are safe and in a superior position socially, politically, and economically, before they begin looking out for our civil rights.

I believe in the generational cycle theories of history and in every crisis, Americans have become less free and more dependent on government.  

It's inevitable.  


Sun, 12/30/2012 - 23:04 | 3108080 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

You're right about the trend, but history is also filled with the occasional 'reset'

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:11 | 3102210 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Exactly. I can almost guarentee that local and even statewide law enforcement in many of the red states would actively refuse to enforce an Obama- and Democrat-inspired gun ban.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:56 | 3102137 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 True, even in Revolutionary times, armed militia were not well able to stand up to regular armies in pitched battles.

Hence, there has been the oft-stated belief that LARGE STANDING ARMIES POSE A GREAT THREAT TO FREEDOM.

Until lately, when standing armies and militarized police are widely championed and feted as "keepers" of freedom.

Having after allowed the threat to freedom of a standing army to exist, as well as the many other Constitutional compromises made, only then does the protection of an armed citizenry seem most weak.    

But make no mistake, this "compromise", as the others before, will not make one "safer", only even more defenseless. The safety promised by compromising liberties to the "war on terror", the "war on drugs", and now the "war on guns" is illusory.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:57 | 3103386 A Middle Child ...
A Middle Child of History's picture

Those well-stocked armories will become the arsenals of freedom once the revolution is well and truly underway. No way they can avoid that hardware falling into determined civilian hands just like in Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Let em' stock up on hardware. We will be using it on them someday soon.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:26 | 3102011 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 17:19 | 3102977 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I do not live in the States, but it appears to me that what Americans are most fearful of is not crazy gunmen but crazy government. Given that Americans suffer from both categories it is hard to see how this issue will be resolved.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:33 | 3102043 Haole
Haole's picture

The same was said of the NDAA.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:58 | 3102149 CH1
CH1's picture

It wont pass.

And what would you DO if it did pass?

Hint: Complaining and writing congressbeasts doesn't count.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:58 | 3102152 midtowng
midtowng's picture

So people will fight for their guns, but they won't fight for their freedoms. How fucked up is that?

And no, guns don't defend freedom. If they did then the surge in gun buying wouldn't parallel the decline in freedom in this country.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:27 | 3102281 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture


It wont pass. Even a water down version wont pass....

it passed and was done in canada.  no diff, buddy

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:42 | 3102353 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

It won't pass? That's what they said about Obamacare.

Feinstein also just shut down Rand Paul's attempted defense of the 4th Amendment.

Feinstein is a traitor, a domestic enemy of the Constitution.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:08 | 3102448 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I agree.  I read it.  The language as currently written appears to want to ban bolt action rifles that have a removable 5 round magazine.  In other words, she's going for broke. Also, semi-auto rifles and pistol are Title II weapons and NFA weapons are Title I.  To add semi-autos to the NFA registry (which the government itself cannot accurately keep track of as of right now) would not work--you would have to add all firearms to the NFA registry because the difference between semi-auto and something else are too fine-grained.  A revolver is a semi-automatic weapon, it fires one shot per pull of the trigger.  Revolvers are quite deadly, especially the magnums.  Gun regulations have always been hair-splitting endeavors, but now they're delving way into Fudd territory, and even the Fudd's can see that the game is up if they allows such restrictions to take place.

Anyways, I'm not registering jack shit.  If they want to come and arrest me and seize them, fine.  If I can resist, I will.  I'm not looking for overt confrontation, however.  What I'm saying is, if they come door to door and they aren't already dying in droves because of that overt act, I'm not going to resist right then and there because it is smarter to live to join the resistance.  There are plenty of weapons in the US, many of higher capability and quality than the ones I already possess.  I can always get more.  Henceforth from that moment, however, I will be a member of the resistance and actively working to sabotage and hinder the machine.  I can't very well let my kids grow up under fascism, now can I? 

What I really think is that at age 78, Diane Feinstein has finally lost whatever marbles she started out with.  So let's see where this goes before we all panic and buy $3,000 AR-15s that are really worth about $800 brand new.  And let's stop calling them "assault weapons"--that's the opposition's loaded term to evoke an emotional response.  They are modern sporting arms, and by modern, the AR-15 design is now over 40 years old and the underlying design is pretty near 100 years old.



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:09 | 3102455 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Yeah, right.  Neither will Obama Care or the NDAA as they are repugnant to the Constitution.  And even if passed they'll never survive a challenge in the Supreme Court...

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:16 | 3102485 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture


This future law is a declaration of war against the people of America by their own government. All U.S citizens will immediately have the right to take up arms to reclaim their country if this law passes. None will be terrorists. All will be freedom fighters, fighting for a just society against an odious government, legal and financial system. If this law passes, America will no longer be a country governed by the rule of law, as it undermines the very basis of law itself, as a structure for maintaining civilization. When law is usurped for the purpose of tyranny, all bets are off.

The rule of law will die in America, if this law passes as it is. Full scale civil war, will only be a matter of time. Abduction, torture and murder is the cursed trinity at the heart of all odious systems of government. The passing of this bill will qualify the American government as a fully odious regime, with no remaining basis in morality. All of humanity and every American citizen, will be fully justified in opposing the U.S government and it’s enforcers, to bring about it’s downfall.

Every senator who votes this into law, is in reality committing the crime of treason against the nation and citizens of America and a heinous crime against all humanity, for which they can and should be tried and sentenced to life-imprisonment or death. Because together with torture and murder, this law puts in place the final element of the legal framework for the genocide of American citizens. “Legalized” Abduction, torture and murder, means that Satanic government is here. Therefore genocide is not far behind. No human being is obliged to obey the laws, of any odious regime.

WITH THE PASSING OF THIS LAW THE U.S GOVERNMENT HEREBY FORFEITS ALL AUTHORITY OVER THE CITIZENS AND STATES OF AMERICA. The passing of this law, will be looked back on as the day when the citizens and states of America became legally and morally free to fully oppose and ignore the authority of the government of the United States of America. Unless the ability to abduct American citizens is removed from this bill, the day that this bill is signed into law, will be the day when the rule of law ends in the United States.

Obama, Feinstein and all others, you have been warned. When genuine (as opposed to odious) government is restored you will be tried in a court of law, along with the Senators who supported it, if this bill is allowed to pass, as it is. For it -along with the laws put in place by recent U.S governments – is treasonous and genocidal. Therefore, for all law makers who have supported abduction, torture and murder (thus creating the conditions for genocide) the day is not far away, when the sentence for your actions, will be life imprisonment or death.

You will not escape the restoration and elevation, of the legal basis of society, that is coming. In fact, your convictions and sentencing, will be the much needed proof, that civilization is restored. So don’t fool yourself that you will be walking away. The same applies to the previous administrations also. All odious rulers, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clintons and satanic politicians and bankers everywhere – your day in court is coming. You think you are protected by your corruption of the law, when in fact you are creating the conditions for it’s improvement that will leave you with no defense for your actions.

All odious politicians, bankers, bureaucrats, agents and executives will be sentenced and punished accordingly, when the time comes. You have been warned. Do not push the world over the edge.
Do not destroy the integrity & authority of the rule of law, if you want any chance of a reprieve.
The conditions of the French revolution are being re-created. You know what happened there !



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:10 | 3103207 Freddie
Freddie's picture

In 2012 - more American troops died from suicide versus combat deaths.  If people think the military like a govt that has them rotting away in Aghanistan and Iraq then you are dreaming.  They want these soldiers out of the USA so they can continue destroying the country.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:04 | 3101911 kato
kato's picture

anotehr stupid pundit comment.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:05 | 3102188 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Since you cannot even spell, are you even intellectually qualified to make this assertion?

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:05 | 3101914 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The UK got it right (in a sense) when they outlawed guns for the citizens, they also did so for the police on the street.  It lent their new "law" credibility (although, their military and their SWAT teams still have weapons). 

Say what you want about it, at least one could understand the gesture.

The problem is, the US Government doesn't have any credibility NOW. 

So if they do try to do this, it's just going to create another shitstorm of stupid that we are all gonna have to hear about (while the bankers rob our accounts).

BTW, if guns (handguns, rifles, whatever) are taken away form the citizenry, the government WILL raise taxes on folks making under 100K a year.  Book it.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:20 | 3101980 Karlus
Karlus's picture

"The UK got it right (in a sense) when they outlawed guns for the citizens"


Stopped reading right there. Last time I checked the people of England have been getting pwned by the monarchy for a loooong time. No thx, redcoats.


Understanding the Constitution, you failed it.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:29 | 3102030 seek
seek's picture

Yeah, you can't argue the UK got it right when they've taken disarmament to the point where people are going to jail for having butter knives in their glovebox.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:59 | 3102158 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

BTW, if guns (handguns, rifles, whatever) are taken away form the citizenry, the government WILL raise taxes on folks making under 100K a year.  Book it.


You got that right.  That's a stroke of genius right there.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:50 | 3102120 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

the constipation is no better than toilet paper

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:27 | 3102524 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Ahh, the Brit sticking his nose into other country's business.

Here try this one. The Queen is a relic of a bygone age and a financial drag on the UK that the Brits are too stupid to get rid of. And get rid of her eugenicist husband too.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 17:00 | 3102893 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

sorry not british here mate

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 18:47 | 3103794 smiler03
smiler03's picture

 "Here try this one. The Queen is a relic of a bygone age and a financial drag on the UK that the Brits are too stupid to get rid of. And get rid of her eugenicist husband too."


I'm a Brit, I want the monarchy abolished. However, the majority of Brits support the monarchy (supported by democracy, not an "Executive order").

There are 44 nations in the world with monarchies, I'm only aware of one nation that shackles it's citizens with tax for life wherever they are.

The British monarchy generates many more millions in tourism (especially from Americans!)

 And here's the biggest fucking laugh about this, from a British newspaper because of course no American one would ever publish it: 

"Obama family 'costs taxpayers $1.4BILLION per year' (that's 20 times more expensive than British Royal Family)"

So who's "stupid" now?? Ho Ho Ho

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:20 | 3102256 mercenaryomics
mercenaryomics's picture

+1 for pwnd, not used enough on zh

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:10 | 3102459 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The UK has done nothing right when it comes to individual rights.  And they wrote the damn Magna Carta!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:13 | 3102474 L_Conquistador
L_Conquistador's picture

And, in the UK a person can be prosecuted for "hate speech".  Sounds like a bad role model to me.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:28 | 3102024 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

That's the plan.

I will tell you a short story. Where im at, we have what are called Wild Boar Hogs. They weigh between 150lbs (calves) up to >500 lb. adults. They roam free in large packs, from county to county, killing small prey, medium and large prey with up to 6 inch long razor sharp tusks. There are four of them. These animals do not discriminate between human and animal prey. When the pack has a new brood, they feed the calves by tilling the land area they are in up to 20 inches deep, for grub worms for the calves to feed on until they can hunt and eat on their own.  Children playing in an open field are a particularly delightful little morsel for the bulls. No need to count how many times i have been caught off guard and charged, by a bull, but when your with your child, you know they are not coming for you, they want the easy meat, the child.  The only round that can stop a charging boar hog, is a deer round, or, preferably a high cal round, ( less shots to get the kill), but try lugging around a high cal rifle that only holds three rounds, that have to be shot from a fixed point to be any kind of accurate. So no, a high caliber, or standard caliber deer rifle will not work unless it is at night when you are thinning herds with night vision, and high, fixed point, sniper positions.

With my AR-15, i carry only 2 mags, 30 rounds each. Last time i got charged by a young bull, it took six shots to stop him, i hit him five times, missed one.

If you try to take the tool i use to defend myself and my family against WILD ANIMALS, NOT PEOPLE, those boar hogs could find new homes very very near the very populaces that require my dis armament.

So, yall can deal with them dragging your kids off into the fields.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:45 | 3102094 flattrader
flattrader's picture

>>>I will tell you a short story. Where im at, we have what are called Wild Boar Hogs.<<<

Damn.  Where do you live?  In the US South?

I was aware wild hogs were a big problem down there, but I wasn't aware humans were at risk the way you describe.

They are migrating to my part of the country.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:08 | 3102198 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

My guess is that he lives in Texas, as I do. And he is 100% correct. These things hunt people. What he failed to mention is that wild boars are SMART. And very strong. They work together and attack using tactics. And if you think that you can get away by climbing a tree it better be a really big tree - if it has a truck anything less than 12" or so diameter they will work at it until they bring it down.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:27 | 3102288 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Well, crap.  Gonna have to rethink the next weapons buy.

At least I'll get some BBQ outta the deal.  Alot of what I planned to shoot and kill you wouldn't want to eat.

Bankster Bitch Q doesn't sound that tasty.

A lot of southern vermin are heading north.

I saw my first road kill armadillo this year, though people have been telling me they've seen them in the "wild" for a few years now.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:49 | 3102386 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

My guess is that he lives in Texas, as I do. And he is 100% correct.


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:15 | 3102482 EINSILVERGUY


I live in Houston and feral hogs are becoming a  problem even close to the suburbs. I read that there are over 2 million wild hogs in Texas alone



Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:19 | 3102499 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

There's been a feral hog problem in DC for a loooong time now....

Sat, 12/29/2012 - 20:02 | 3105540 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

They are a problem in GA as well.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:08 | 3102686 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Yep deep in TX.  Oh yeah, you should see the pics and videos of the destruction they do, it looks like a bulldozer came through your yard, 1 -2 foot square chunks of grass and ground ripped right out like it was nothing. 

Report this summer of a 500 pounder crashing through the front door of a home killing the homeowner on the couch. NO bullshit. After the food in the house the man was cooking.

We dont leave trash out in the open down here for that reason.

Reaearch them, you will be enlightened.

They breed like rabbits, and every year they get meaner and meaner.

But, IM the terrorist?  Not the hog??

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 15:12 | 3102469 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Try dynamite.  Or makeshift claymores. Are you a kook? I can't really tell--last time I looked, not many people were having problems with wild boars in their neighborhood.  Not that I want you disarmed, but that story is simply weird.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:00 | 3102650 flattrader
flattrader's picture

No joke. Feral hogs are a problem that's spreading.

I am a little suprised to hear they hunt in packs, though I knew they lived in groups.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 16:09 | 3102690 viahj
viahj's picture

wild hogs in the South = brown bears in the NW when it comes to required stopping power.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:13 | 3103218 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well at least Brown Bears are cute - when they are not trying to eat you or your livestock. ;-)

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:51 | 3102123 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'UK got it right'....yea and now their pensions are all Corzined and you cant do shit about it except throw rocks....fuckin idiots.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:18 | 3102250 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Nice try shizz

After a school massacre, the U.K. banned handguns in 1998. A decade later, handgun crime had doubled.


read this:

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:27 | 3102272's picture


The UK got it right (in a sense) when they outlawed guns for the citizens, they also did so for the police on the street.  It lent their new "law" credibility (although, their military and their SWAT teams still have weapons).



Any law along the following lines will also have credibility when they disarm Gordon Ramsey.


Doctors' kitchen knives ban call

A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.

A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal


Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:04 | 3101915 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

WAR, bitchez!

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:09 | 3101941 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you are asking for some? enlist, then

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:19 | 3101975 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I think he wants to fight against the banksters, not for them.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:29 | 3102029 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

Slavery is not better than death.


We will all be enlisted in this fight, one way or another, regardless of the side you are on.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:37 | 3102068 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I don't want war. I'd much rather go about my business and life and be free, but if no other choice is left to me....

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:16 | 3103226 Freddie
Freddie's picture


America was founded by people who wanted to be left the **** alone. 

They did not want some govt parasite/royalty/tyrant hanging on them trying to steal their labor and possessions.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 14:37 | 3102333 swanpoint
swanpoint's picture

"die on your feet or die on your knees"

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:04 | 3101917 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It's a bad idea, sure, but no need to panic YET.  The bill would have to pass first, and that ain't likely.  It's a good idea for everyone to start making plans for how to evade it now, though.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:10 | 3101943 irie1029
irie1029's picture

years ago my father told me never ever register a gun.  As laws got passed I bought more and more on black market.  the best thing is to ignore it and pay cash for ammo now before it is passed.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:17 | 3101966 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

If passed, this bill makes owning a "no paper" gun illegal all by itself.  It allows you to register such after an NFA type background check - federal gun registration, the thing that always precedes total tyranny in history - no exceptions I'm aware of.


Long PVC pipes, caps, glue to hold a few - the black market would be pretty juicy later on if something like this passes.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:20 | 3101982 Overfed
Overfed's picture

When you think the time has come to bury your weapons, it is actually the time for you to get them ready to use.

Fri, 12/28/2012 - 13:25 | 3102006 irie1029
irie1029's picture


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!