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Senate Agrees To Kick Can For Two Months; Breached Debt Ceiling Untouched
Well, we appear to be nearing a mini 'delay' deal of some sort. The agglomeration of headlines continues with Senate deals on and off, Biden proclaiming victory yet Senate Democrats are said not have consented (yet).
- *WHITE HOUSE SAID TO REACH BUDGET DEAL WITH REPUBLICANS
- *SENATE FISCAL CLIFF VOTE POSSIBLE BY 10:30 P.M.: REID SPOKESMAN
- *SENATE DEMOCRATS SAID NOT TO HAVE CONSENTED TO DEAL
State of the idiocy appears to be: The 2-month sequester delay: cuts would come half from defense & half-non-defense. 2 month window to give all sides time for bigger deal. No debt ceiling resolution. Tax rises for 400/450k, Cap Gains/Dividend up to 20%, small rise in estate tax and restrictions on personal tax deductions. Simple - as we have said for a while - assuming this passes seamlessly, this is nothing but a can-kicking delay to the 'extraordinary' debt ceiling date - two words - Stop.Gap. And in two months, it's not just the sequester but the debt ceiling too. Enjoy your night.
Via AP:
A Democratic aide says the White House and congressional Republicans have reached an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal cliff.
The measure would extend Bush-era tax cuts for family incomes below $450,000 and briefly avert across-the-board spending cuts set to strike the Pentagon and domestic agencies this week.
Vice President Joe Biden was set to sell the agreement to Senate Democrats at a meeting at the Capitol on Monday night.
The aide required anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly.
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Sell Mortimer Sell!!
Sleep well sheeple! EXPECT a new Executive order when you wake up... Just like last year!!
Maybe O will sign a ban on all guns! Who knows... Its like Christmas all over again.. Can't wait to find out what our surprise is in the morning...
Kick the can.....till Nov. (elections) ???
"Kick the can...."
Oh good lord, we have now officially become like Greece, bailouts and all. Except we're bailing ourselves out since we can print money. If this doesn't make the average citizen sit up and take notice, nothing will. Since the 'deal' is expected to be signed at 10:30 pm, who wants to bet it gets magically pushed back and signed at 11:59 PM?
Pass the popcorn.
But at 11:59 is when Obama gets to sign his new executive order...
This is too funny.
"The aide required anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly."
The aide really required anonymity because he was laughing so hard at the insanity of it all that he feared for his job.
The aides probably have more to say than their minders.
They should keep their mouths shut.
The big news is the estate tax.
'Rome is burning cocksuckerz, Rome is F'ing burnsng!! 'Stack it while you can. Kiss this failed country goodbye. And it makes me weep to say it..
Is it time to start killing people already? My axe is getting restless....
Wait for the ban on guns before grabbing your axe. Then go for it big time.
What will they ban when the number of people pushed out of windows skyrockets?
Ummm....I'm thinking windows.
Do i win something?
Thomas.... what is the deal on the Estate Tax?
FORWARD, comrades!
Sell? Div and Cap gains at 20%?
I smell a massive rally.
(dear junker, my apologies. good luck with your short play).
Cheering for a rally in this market is like cheering for a fight that you already fixed and know who is going to win...
cheering? I said i smell it. it smells like boilermakers asshole (below). all i am saying is if we go to 20% cap gains and div only for those above 450k i think that a lot of the div payers that got sold get bought back. if you are going to put your hard earned money into this casino u gotta check emotions at the door. i could certainly be wrong.
Might possibly be a sell the news event. Today might very well have been a sucker's rally. Time will tell. Everyone thought the market was going to the moon on QE3 and QE4, too, and that hasn't really panned out.
i used to think like that. but the debt ceiling debate was at the end of qe2 and we got twist soon after (if i remember correctly). now we are on 85 bil/mo auto pilot possibly going higher. shorting it is like trying to climb an avalanche.
The Venezuelan stock market gained 300% in 2012, although barely any volume traded.
You are of course right that it is foolish to try and short what is manipulated higher.
But unless you are an insider it is foolish to try and ride the manipulation too.
add another 4% for Obamacare beginning this year to cap gains and dividends. Effectively the rate is now almost 25%.
So the shit rolls on.I predict we will have at least ten years more of this "new economy".Maybe more like 20-25yrs.Endless cycles of government intervention and propped up low yielding markets.For the average investor -nothing to really invest in - no clear direction- no yields - no nothing.And for those that draw their paycheck from plain old idea of education and work - you are doubly screwed.
We all now work for central banks.And governments.Only way to get ahead is to elect an advantage - that is - convincing someone to feed you with proceeds extracted out of others.Unfortunately this can go on for a very long time.If you think it will end due to it´s own absurdity - collapse of it´s on weigth.It´s an old socialist model that worked well for long times in Europe.It doesn´t end until the majority of the population get´s fed up with the system.My take is that it will take a long time before citizens detect the built-in negative entropy of this system.A lot of them will never do that.
So you should do well to hang on the lips of the Democrats in charge because their words will decide more than "reality".For another 10 - 20 years
somebody with the same time frame as me , good for you. It is as good a prediction as others here. You all seem to be in such a hurry ...
+1. There are a lot of Heaven's Gate devotee's at ZH. Unfortunately for them, Hale-Bopp is not anticipated to return until the year 4377.
As for the economy, who is to say that the current manipulations and print-and-pretend will not continue for another 5, 10, or 20 years? While I think that eventually fiat currencies will fall apart, the stress is on the eventually. The bigger strategy for those of us who don't want to get sucked into the vortex won't change a whole lot regardless.
Here is my apocalyptic New Years prediction for ZH: on a long enough timeline, the Tylers are going to face an exodus from ZH as their ongoing predictions of imminent financapocalypse fail to be realized. Timing is everything.
Actionable information, bitchez.
No this is about math, people that are bad at it and those that will loot those bad at math because they are dumb as a bag of rocks thinking this is about waiting and timing. I mean, shit, look at Bloomberg. Even the 'bad' headline is fluffed like porn star for presentation for the Algo's.
The future is now, you are all soaking in it whether you wish to believe it or not. I can leave one prediction for this year. It's the last year most of you can afford a plane trip anywhere or any imported product. Probably food as well for many, if anyone was paying attention to US costs for grain over the last 12 hours and the doors being closed on exports from the southern hemisphere because it's getting to the point the producing nations are in deep trouble and governments are curbing exports so their populations don't die and they have resources on hand.
What's the repercussion? US won't pay their debts? They weren't going to anyways. The US can't even make interest payments at 0.25% and they are still paying 30 year bond rates in double digits.
Think that's sustainable? Sure if you keep printing. Doesn't mean anyone has to care about the US position or situation anymore. On paper it looks great, everything does.
You are still here. What's stopping your exodus?
Socialism can drain the blood out of an economy for decades, it's true. But we're not starting at ground zero. Look at the debt in the west.
The American and European ppl might be willing to put up with this for decades more. The real question is whether our creditors will do the same.
My money is on another systemic crisis in 2013 or 2014. One that can't be fixed with sovereign bailouts because the sovereigns are the problem.
Delusional. Pure delusion.
You are talking like this 'just happened'. This is year 14. Bubble after bubble. Print job after print job. it's just a monthly occurance now. Soon to be weekly.
Prepare for it.
Only $1 in spending cut for every $41 in tax increase.
Get back to work, millions on welfare are counting on you.
no comment om
The House isn't passing this shit, I love how people are getting all excited, like it fucking matters that the Senate was able to get a fucking vote accomplished!!!
The Manipulators will give the House a bigger dip in the markets.
That little dip last week was for the Senate. The House gets a bigger market dip to convince them to play along with the game.
what are the odds that this passes?
What a drama queen of a joke !
Michael Hudson: America’s Deceptive 2012 Fiscal Cliff, Part II – The Financial War Against the Economy at Large http://po.st/7DajaM
The weapon in this financial warfare is no larger military force. The tactic is to load economies (governments, companies and families) with debt, siphon off their income as debt service and then foreclose when debtors lack the means to pay. Indebting government gives creditors a lever to pry away land, public infrastructure and other property in the public domain. Indebting companies enables creditors to seize employee pension savings. And indebting labor means that it no longer is necessary to hire strikebreakers to attack union organizers and strikers.
Yes, but... says: December 31, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I think the main point is that it’s no longer a question of who’s doing it to us, why they’re doing it, or what are the means they’re employing to do it. This is all getting to be pretty standard fare now. The main question to be resolved at this point is, is there anything that can be done to stop the further shock-doctrinization of the US and the world absent the “democratic process,” which we now know has been wholly appropriated as well by the new world order.
In one sense, it’s wholly appropriate that the US get served up a full helping of its own just dessert since we were the primary pushers of this whole abomination, but then again, revenge ain’t gonna really help anything and most Americans truly were helpless and ignorant before a monstrous global theft ring that would have just squashed them anyway. And should any of us have to worry about organized crime rings at the highest levels of world power anyway? Check that last question; asked and answered.
americans are complicit in their ignorance. their pain will fuel a global awakening or their own demise, only time will tell.
their reliance on a structure which in no way reflects reason, morality, or sanity will be the undoing.
prey all you want, but your gods arent listening.
if there is no reform than anarchy will take hold, and from anarchy the strongest in the most natural sense, not only of physical power, will take hold.
you/they did this to themselves through their supposed "compassion".
beware those closest to the apparatus of the state, live a life far from corruption.
happy 13
they usually remove that floor.
How do you know God is not listening. Maybe he is ready to shut everything down.
God is amused. He just likes to watch.
---Psalms 2:
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
Yea god is a sadistic asshole, if anything.
If money is backed by Gold, it is what World will generate. If money is backed by oil it is what world will generate, if money is backed by debt - it what world will generate.
If money will be backed by somthing else - like eco-product, eco-resources, eco-energy - it will what world will generate.
Today - money is backed by debt - and it is exactly what will world generate till it drowns in it.
Ole Mitch
So all these fuckers are on Capitol Hill on New Year's Eve voting on this nonsense? Right, o.k.
and all those lonely interns on a frosty New Years Eve
sometimes a plan just cums together perfectly
Cigars for everyone!
Obama cigars.....a little stanky....but totally free.
So..... the government has agreed not to cut spending & not to raise taxes, after agreeing to cut spending & raise taxes?
Basically. Rally on bitchez. Everything is A-O-Fuckin'-K.
'Tis a long pudding that has not an end
What about the payroll tax? If unchanged it is set to rise 2 percent. That is 4 percent for self employed people.
Right, wasn't the ENTIRE problem that we had to raise taxes on someone, and cut spending? So then the 'deal' is no spending cuts, no tax raises? Stinks of bullshit to me, thats all.
Sheep what is key to me is the 20% cap gains and div ONLY on those above 400k. That stinks of Bernanke to me. He walked into that negotiation and everyone looked at him and he said "If you break my toy we are all dead, I don't give a shit what else you do".
Algos, back to work!
I thought Element was teasing me.
U.S. Senate = Carnival Funhouse/
Someone get Hank "tanks on the street" Paulson out of the closet and knock the dust off that corpse. The debt ceiling debate will require a similar "no food on the shelves" sentiment to give the repubs the proper cover to hike the ceiling.
Who would imagine, New Years Eve, would be spent on " Sovereign Bond" integrity?
After all, Ben "AKA" [ chair satan} is spending 85.b a month on MBS/long end of the curve "buy backs"...<>
The $ ( is winding down)... Reserve currencies are passe'
They get a raise, this day of days,
And pray next year this time,
We won't be here, to share the cheer,
Of a Congress Auld Lang Syne
I need a decoder ring for this agreement.
Look out for a gun control amendment.
Quit sweating any "gun control" amendment.
They can't even get people to stop texting while driving, you think they can take away a Constitutional guarantee???
They don't even have a majority of Dems on that.
People said the same thing about Obamacare. It wouldn't pass... then it wouldn't be Constitutional... now here we are...
Well, I didn't believe America was a socialist country, until it was. The same folks that have outlawed cigarettes without outlawing them are going to do the same to guns. Pretty soon, there will only be single action revolvers, then no handguns at all.
And then they came for my SuperSoaker.
And then they came for my 32oz. soda.
Now, no hardons for over 4 hours
The Doctor will see you in 2 weeks....
They'll keep floating the gun "control" legislation until their polling tells them that they can get away it it, it's that simple.
Always pay attention to the second word staring anyone with two functioning brain cells in the face in regards to the words "gun CONTROL."
CONTROL is what it is all about. Nothing less.
I always thought that gun control was hitting what you aim at. Lotsa people trying to change that definition.
"I always thought that gun control was hitting what you aim at."
Going in my "ZeroHedge best comments ever" file!
Happy New Year all.
proper gun control "involves using both hands"
Gun Control...is a Steady Hand!
.
Obozo care just passed with a majority of dems. in both houses,and Scott Browns election forced the senate to pass this Obozo piece of crap last minute before Brown was sworn in. thats why there are so many loose ends.
you think they can take away a Constitutional guarantee???
They're not taking away constitutional guarantees. They know the constitution doesn't apply anymore. Why don't you know it?
A drone for every house!
Yea I smell a rat, this is covering up something, it makes no sense all we heard for weeks was they have to cut spending, and raise taxes. Now they've 'found a deal' where they dont cut spending and dont raise taxes? What? GEE where did govt suddenly find a big pile of money to coast on, space aliens?
I bet we're paying these losers holiday pay OT.
My asshole itches...
Seriously, it's been a few days now. Is that something to be concerned about?
The wierd thing is that...the more I scratch it (yea, I know...it's tough to visualize...but, it's very necessary) the more it itches. Then, I have an irresistable urge to scratch it again.
Very frustrating.
Wash that shit.
Sounds like pinworms to me.
Could also be round worms. Check your stool for any movement.
Pinworms. I use homeopathic cina 30c once a day for two days. I dissolve under tongue. no coffee. no food or drink 1/2 hour before or after.
Maybe he is a dog and ate a flea, now it's tapeworm. See what I mean now, by unsustainable health care costs run rampant!
My 'riods hurt
It's only ROIDS. Prep H will relieve the itch. You're welcome.
Cottonelle wet wipes are a daily must.
Stool softeners and wet wipes are the best gifts Mrs.K ever got me.
As Congress would say to you Boiler, welcome to wonderful world of Hemroids!
Boilermaker No remorse/ I hope she was worth it?
Stop watching CNBC, CNN, MSNBC, etc. Prolonged exposure to ZHer's could result in a blown o-ring or something.
It's just your subconscious preparing your ass for the continued reeming you're going to get, along with the rest of us.
Could be pinworms especially if it itches between 3-5 AM when the female migrates to the anus to lay her eggs. If you lick your fingers after itching you reseed the worms to continue their life cycle. See a Dr for a prescription for you and your whole family... Yes you will share them with others. If not pinworms, eat some roughage! My field is so pleasant, I'm so popular at cocktail parties.
Miffed:-)
Remove your head from your ass. Shave. Reinsert head into ass. The itching will be gone for a couple days.
A wierd case of rimfire?
I'd like to say a Big Fuck You to all those rat bastards!!!!!!!!
*sigh*
It's just not fair.
O-Phone is holed up in the Mosque with Reggie, Larry, and all our money, doing whatever gay things it is they do.
Something is wrong with this picture.
O-Phone is holed up in the Synagogue with Rahm, Larry, Lew, Plouffe, Gensler, Shapiro, Axelrod, the Berskank and all our money, doing whatever gay things it is they do.
fixed...
Get your lube ready.
Industrial strength. And don't forget to wear socks (prevents chaffing).
This bill is going to be completely stuffed with all kinds of dog shit.
Scotch time.
peace !
I'll bethcha there is at least $100B of fresh spending hidden in the dark recesses.
Flaming bag of shit just waiting to be stomped on. Oh, the joys. We've been waiting all year for this moment. Enjoy!
Sonny and Cher The Beat Goes On (France)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6kS6PcgH_s
Cher very hot then ;)
Some people think Barbara Streisand's still hot.
Meet the Fockers, Halloween Special?
She is.
And it's a goddamn shame her music has been forgotten here in Amerikkka.
But Kid Rock. Man, now THAT is some talent!
You would bed Madge? Please watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZxpDOJ1AlA
Sonny Bono of Sonny & Cher ... was an American murdered with US government backing, a political martyr
Tho perhaps abusive to Ms Cher in younger days ... Sonny Bono became a US Congressman, then serving on the key House Judiciary Committee with the ability to investigate corruption at America's highest levels
Sonny Bono was murdered in 1998 doing exactly that ... media cover-up claimed it was a 'ski accident' and that excellent skier Sonny went head-on into a tree and died ... totally bogus
Sonny Bono died with honour, an American hero
His was one of the several political murders of US Senators, Congresspeople and federal judges ...
Like US Senator Paul Wellstone in 2002, after opposing the US Iraq War ... 'accident'
Or US Congressman Wayne Owens in Israel in 2002, found dead while investigating some Israeli corruption ... 'unsolved'
Or US Federal Judge John Roll shot dead in Arizona in 2011 shortly after ruling against Obama and the US gov't ... drugged up 'lone gunman' promptly supplied, 'confessing' and otherwise barely seen
Very few even know that Judge Roll died that day, all they know is Gabby Gabby Gabby...
Hooray!
(running around naked, jumping up and down, pecker flopping happily, looking for meds before dehydration from drooling)
Share and enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_wSBC5Dyds8
Thanks / Will do.
Wow!! How d'they do that?
I think they've just "kicked the can" if you'll excuse the metaphor "down the road"....
No more taxes (really) - no spending cuts (really). Both of those possibilities sounded quite bad, I thought. The sort of things bad men would do.
Thank God they've seen sense. What *was* all that fuss about?
There are academy awards goin' begging ... (blame it on B-grade acting from Reagan ... one more for the 'gipper')
Kicking the can will work until it doesn't, then it will kick right back.
And that's not some doomer-pessimism schtick, it's just what the system is going to transition towards. The state is denying that kicks have already started.
Too true. All the media flummery in the past few days has failed to comment, meaningfully, on why the "Fiscal Cliff" was there in the first place. That being [I'm on ZH so, I know you know ;)] the $16T debt bubo.
The politicians can't cope can they? There in the US or here in the UK. Nobody's got a clue what it's like to spend within their means - and nobody in power dare suggest the idea for a second.
The can is kicked, someone else will sort it all out.
Let us all enjoy 2013 where those promises to future liabilities and foreign investors pay for the now. There's really little point worrying about the express train coming down the tracks, as nobody who can stop it... will.
Gun control will follow the even more sucessful green energy projects.
Gun control will follow the even more sucessful green energy projects
Sadly I think this is not the way this one is played, I think we have a major war brewing in the Congress, and the entire month of January once Frankensteins bill is submitted(O has already stated he will support it 100%).
So this will mean a tone of FU's to the Politicos, and then that will give O the excuse he has been waiting for to sic the Brown Shirt Goon Squads on all gun owners, andthe Door Kickers will be visiting anyone who refuses to cmply at 2-3:15 a.m.
Look for an END run on legislation for this one, it is the Gold Chalice.And the toal end to our BOR's.
Soylent?
USAaa-
Hulk's New Years resolutions:
A) Stop exercising
B) Start drinking
C) Start smoking
D) Default on all my debt
that is all for now...
E • Don't bang strange women... ( itchy ass-hole syndrome)
U got your strange on tonight YC, Good man !!!
It's just me. I just do my homework, so I'm prepped for smart people , like your self.
Hulk, I like to test people. I love to garden, and can't wait for the spring/ Thanks
Hulkster, don't do it! I know you're joking about the drinking thing, but I understand the sentiment.
Wonder Dog? Wonder Woman? WonderDawg have you realized gains yet? Capital gains just jumped up 4 hundred basis points.
Do you understand the implications of that? Verizon, J&J, Pfizer, come to mind.
Not that I'm bragging or anything but.....
A) Never started (don't bother your body and it won't bother you, is my motto)
B) Hah! Do I really want to tell you when I started drinking (and subsequently never stopped)?
C) See B, above
D) Haven't had any in years. Thinking about taking out a ton of it, though. Shouldn't be too long before I can pay it all back in worthless Bernanke-Bucks with plenty left over to buy a Happy Meal (or a Happy Ending- I never stopped that shit any more than I stopped drinking or smoking!).
My New Years resolution is to do more fun things. This is one of those rare times in history when bad behaviors are rewarded. Bad = Fun, of course (almost always true). Just so happens that Bad = Rewarded right now, too (thanks Fed and US Government).
I'm going to over-mortgage my house (and everything else I own), use it to buy Gold, wait for inflation to kick in, pay off that devalued debt (after the Government writes down my principal, of course) and spend the difference on alcohol, smokes and hookers. I bet this still looks like a good idea in the morning. Oh, I just bet it will!
Tea Party flexing their muscles for one last time, next up re-elect Boner
unfuckingbelieveable
Boner for more than 4 hours...
So, taxes raised on the 'rich' and no spending cuts?
Sounds great. /sarc
I'm glad this charade played out so perfectly, this really needed to be dragged out til the 11th (or 10:30th) hour?
Happy new year yall!
Yes, yes. Republicans want spending cuts. Unless they are spending cuts they don't like.
Yes, yes. Democrats hate the military. Unless it will cost jobs in their county/area.
http://cranberry.patch.com/articles/gov-corbett-in-speech-backs-efforts-...
Pull my finger. Oh, and...
Greatest Country in the WorldTM.
Hey, weall got principles! We are just negotiating over how much their worth!
I love the battlecry- to save americans, we must screw americans who are sucessful. amazing - won't pass house like this. Wonder what they are willing to give up. My guess ss age increase.
Yeah -why the hell would we want Lloyd Blankfein to pay the same percentage (or more) of overall taxes as some deadbeat making 50k ayear? How can he do God's work paying the same (or more) percentage as the middle class working stiff? The elites need obscene profits and income -even if it's fom fraud and speculation - without such profits, how can it trickle down to the peasants?
Rather than addressing their tax rates, why not tackle the fraud and corruption problem you mentioned? If a man legitimately earns his pay, let him reap the rewards fairly. There's no need to penalize success. What we should be penalizing are the illicit ways that evil men generate their "wealth."
I think the tax code needs to distinguish between capitalists and crony capitalists. Blankfein's taxes should be 100%.
So taking money from the psychopath Blankenstein and giving it to the psychopath Barry HUssein makes things better?
Bigger deal! It isn't a big deal NOW. What the F! We need a strong third party. Constituents one and all vote against all incumbents. A new years revolution perhaps. Happy and prosperous 2013 ZH'ERS
We don't need a third party... we need a second one. There isn't any substantive difference between the so-called two parties we now have. The tiny differences are magnified by the MSM to divide and conquer. A party that isn't Demopublican or Republocrat is badly needed.
Thanks for saying it out loud, Rocky. Happy New Year!
Here in Canada it takes a couple of months to get a bill through.
How do you guys manage to vote on something nobody has read?
How can people vote tomorrow afternoon after binge drinking without reading stuff?
Happy New Year EKM ( exactly) The house of horrors( representatives) hasn't passed muster yet.<>
HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALL THE BEST
You...aren't familiar with Amerikkkan politics, are you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlacS-1BC8
Here is a ZeroHedge post on the PA.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/%3F-older-posts-ron-paul-%E2%80%9C-...
John Conyers told you about it in "Fahrenheit 9/11".
http://www.american-buddha.com/fah911.110.htm
And stuff like that.
Tsar Pointless I'm liking you!
It's called ObamaCare-Time.
Reading, fine print, actual due diligence, etc. is for pussies. lol.
Hands in the air bitches. And please stay seated at all times until the sudden violent stop at the end of the ride. Enjoy!
Are you serious?
CONgress doesn't read a damn thing, they just vote the way they are told to.
Don't tell me your "representatives" actually read their legislation and vote to support their constituents versus the kleptoligarchy.
No they don't read it, but they are given the ...time...to read it.
So, they can say they read it.
You both make perfect sense>
Though, though...ours is a pure european parliamentary system.
The leader of the party in power and the leader of the opposition have dictatorial powers over the members of the parliament.
Everybody MUST vote as told, otherwise he or she gets expelled from the party.
Cases like 40 tea party congress members refuse to back up Boehner would immediately lead to new party being created and new elections.