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Putting America's Tax Hike In Perspective

Tyler Durden's picture


One of those occasions when one picture really does speak a thousands words.

Houston, we may have a spending problem.


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Tue, 01/01/2013 - 22:23 | 3113635 pvzh
pvzh's picture

I down-voted you, not because I dislike your sentiment (I wish that you were right), but because I think you are purely delusional if you think that

I don't believe the military or the people are willing to march into WWIII on the orders of the Kenyan. I don't forsee a draft, full-on war, or the dreaded "Martial Law" being declared.

The military members are conditioned to follow chain of command, and as long as orders flow through chain of command the officers and soldiers will follow any order even if this order originated from drunken monkey at the top (very few will not follow, but they will be dealt with swiftly).

In America, the civilian government can't just unleash the military on the people. If it tried to, 90% of military people would quit, go home, and join the millions of armed partriots who would appear overnight.

USA already had such situation, and military had not "revolted" in any meaningful way. See "Bonus Army": military was unleashed on WWI veterans with whom then-current soldiers might have identify, but obviously that was not an issue.

Manipulation and propaganda have come along way since 1930s, so have no doubt -- current military will follow orders against civilians and what not. Besides, use of non-citizens as soldiers is on the rise, so USA is on track that Roman Republic / Empire followed, and, if you use this measure as a benchmark, USA is bound to become non-democratic overtly fairly soon. Transition to dominate (see dominate). Diocletian is either on the throne or soon to come.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:28 | 3112404 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

He is retiring from congress, sorry.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:47 | 3112447 10mm
10mm's picture

The Patriots play in Foxbourgh,Mass.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:26 | 3112535 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"We are witnessing the end of a once great country. Where are the patriots? Who will stop this madness?"

I see this as the failure of a 100 year social/economic experiment and a return to greatness.  Although as always seems to happen, we may have to go thru hell in the process.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3111932 adr
adr's picture

The Bush Tax cuts and all the other Fiscal Cliff nonsense happenned at midnight last night. I read that this bill will allow Obama to declare that the tax hike is in fact a $3.9 Trillion tax cut over ten years.

Taxes go up, and it is declared a $3.9 trillion tax cut.



Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:27 | 3111945 CDSMonkey
CDSMonkey's picture

And they are now the Obama tax cuts

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:04 | 3112629 JayKitsap
JayKitsap's picture

Does this mean the "BUSH TAX CUTS" are dead, Long Live Bush - the whipping post.

The Obama Tax cuts feel great, but for the little people they will see their check go down 2% (end of payroll cuts) and the Barry Cuts are just an illusion as they are the same rates the dim bulb (because he voted for free stuff) has been paying for a decade.

However, his Health Insurance has taken another hike, and his business is rapidly moving everyone to 30 hours a week.  He will just FEEL all of Barry's love.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:26 | 3111941 CDSMonkey
CDSMonkey's picture

Didnt they just approve $60 billion of hurricane spending?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:29 | 3111955 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

that are just promises to be broken.
Did you really think the government would spend money on the people when they can just give it to the banks? :)

nononono.... can't have that...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:37 | 3111978 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Maybe we can pull off one of those "banking miracles" like they did in Iceland.  Wanna know how that really went?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:02 | 3112059 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Thanks for bursting my delusion that something could be done to reign in the criminals and hucksters.

How the hell did you stumble upon that site?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:14 | 3112666 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Credit where it's due... article link from:

I kinda got tired of hearing how great Iceland was doing.  Something was fishy there, and I don't mean what the locals bring in on their boats.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 03:49 | 3114241 piliage
piliage's picture

Interesting link, however, I take anything printed at Naked Capitalism, a website that regularly espouses the pathetic trope that the US owns its own debt internally, like Japan, so printing more money to redistribute to the proletariat in 'fairness' is no trouble at all, as an idiotic cesspool of delusion.


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 13:12 | 3115110 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

They get one thing wrong, ergo everything must be wrong.

You won't get far with that logic.

The article was not written by the blog site.

If you use that argument then one article on ZH that is incorrect makes all the other articles wrong.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:26 | 3112121 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Interesting reading.  Thanks for the link.  Iceland only made the necessary changes because their legislators could not think of any way out.  This tells me that nothing will be changed until it can't possibly be saved.  I'm weary of the wait.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:57 | 3112205 espirit
espirit's picture

RR - Thanks for Baldurs link.  MSM would never let this out, and shows how the NWO is progressive AND oppressive in nature.

Laws only apply to the 99%.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:25 | 3112366 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

I continue to be astounded, but no longer shocked or scandalized, at how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This goes beyond simple Greed and Incompetence models. Rather, it suggests to me a deeper, older and well-orchestrated (creationist) model, that leverages the two aforementioned models. Perhaps the public merely gets to see the 'visible' part of the iceberg.

If I had to analyze it as a CSI (Crime Scene Investigation), then my list of Suspects who have had the Motive, Means and Opportunity for such a long (muli-generational) time span and such a global extent, then I can only think of the centuries-old class of Monarchs and Aristocrats (who never completely disappeared, but simply re-organized the last 100 year's), and their equally old banker class. With both working in collusion (of mutual benefit), to retake/take that which they see as their 'divine' right.

If this hypothesis is (close to) correct, then both these groups won't be happy till they've retaken Russia and China, and reinstated their heirs in positions of official power. THIS has to be their real end-game in the coming 5-25 years.

Nothing new under the sun?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:50 | 3112607 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

An investigative poem about the criminal record of the British Monarchy.

Heathcote Williams has devised a form of polemical poetry that is unique, no-holds-barred personal and political.

It is a great collection of facts that most people are unaware of.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:28 | 3111951 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

why not just do the multiple creditcard trick?

you create another America and use their debt ceiling to pay down the first America and.... you know.... pay one creditcard with another....

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:35 | 3111974 quadcap
quadcap's picture

What do you think this "Reset" everybody's talking about is?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:38 | 3111980 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

My ex did that. Lived like a queen for quite a few years.

She lives in a (not her) car now.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:38 | 3113142 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

We though of identity theft but couldn't find anyone with a decent credit score left on the planet.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:30 | 3111953 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
-India rolls out cash transfer scheme for poor

"India has rolled out an ambitious plan for a cash payout of subsidies to the poor in 20 districts, officials say.

Finance Minister P Chidambaram said the scheme would benefit more than 200,000 people initially, and would cover the entire country by the end of 2013."

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:41 | 3113147 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

You think they buy a lot of gold now....just wait.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:31 | 3111956 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Bottom line is that we have lived beyond our means by use of debt for some time now.  Now that we are using one credit card to, not only spend with but to pay off our other credit cards, that avenue is about to vanish.  What is left is the cold hard reality of our financial position, which is not that great.  Expect about a 40 to 50% reduction in living standards all around as the debt pyramid collapses and we are forced to once again produce what we consume.  The good news is that we are relatively blessed with abundant natural resources.  So not the end of the world, but definitely an unpleasant adjustment.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:44 | 3112001 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I have upticked you as I agree about the adjustment but I disagree that the adjustment will be simply unpleasant. I think that given our largely populated cities, welfare dependent attitudes, highly armed populace etc that we are in for some real chaos and some real pain. I would hate to be n aged person reliant on government.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:01 | 3112056 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

I think the powers that be are aware of the situation and are doing everything in their power to make the downward adjustment a slow one.  Most people are too ignorant to know that they are being robbed by inflation.  However, there is no doubt in my mind that the crime rate will increase, but the fear of chaos is probably overblown.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:36 | 3112154 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Exactly right LC, they are planning for our descent to be as stable and managed as possible. The real reason for the gun grab is to manage the decline.  Our rulers are not stupid we just cannot imagine their goals can be so different from ours,their agenda is complete control over our serfdom, anathema to many but music to their ears. Can the decline be managed over a generation as that is what it will take to avoid chaos.  The people overall are plenty dumb, enamored with bread & circus and can be led like lambs so yeah they probably can pull it off.  The PTB will go along with any financial arrangements as long as they are on the top of the pyramid at the end.  It's all about control nothing more.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:44 | 3112311 espirit
espirit's picture

No doubt to "be protected" from roving bad guys with guns after the peaceable populaces are disarmed, promotion of martial law will arise.

Bullish fighting vehicles delivered to a city near you. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:22 | 3112473 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

The ruling elite use global corporations to harvest their wealth.  The USG, owned and operated through global corporate proxies, in particular the State Department and Department of War (DOD), are really just extensions of the security force protecting and extending control over world resources.  Right now it is probably safe to assume that living standards in Asia will continue to improve while the opposite will happen in the USA.  An equilibrium is likely to put the USA somewhere in the middle in terms of living standards.  In 50 years, the USA may be making cheap electonics for relatively wealthy Chinese and Indians, IMHO.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 00:06 | 3113740 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



they are planning for our descent to be as stable and managed as possible.

Yes, let it down slowly so they can manage it and keep people from noticing the decline, like frog analogy.

Gun grab will be slow & manageble too.  Maybe do some buybacks, maybe not, doesn't really matter, they know there won't be any revolt, so it doesn't matter how many guns are out there.  Just pass the law, wait for people to use an unregistered firearm and nail 'em then. 

I can't imagine why they're going after guns.  They'll never be used in a revolt.  Americans just won't do it. 

Revolts come from hunger, not govt corruption.  There's been way more than enough govt corruption for a revolt, enormous corruption, overwhelming corruption, but no revolt.  And they won't let people get hungry enough to revolt, they'll give food stamps to everybody they have to, nationalize supply lines to keep 'em going, whatever else they have to do.

What they CAN'T prevent is a shock from outside the country that starts a colllapse within the country, like losing reserve currency status suddenly.  Then they WILL have a problem they can't manage anymore, and it all starts falling apart rapidly ...too rapidly for a revolt to be organized and carried out.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:40 | 3112155 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:46 | 3112315 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   Expect about a 40 to 50% reduction in living standards all around

I share your general outlook, but you must realize this isn't going to go over. 

It's not completely clear what a "40% reduction in living standards" might mean, but if it means the working poor are only going to get to EAT 2 out of 3 days, or enjoy hot water for 4 days a week, there'll be some dramatic change, and right-quick.

On the other hand, if the living standards of the top 0.0001% of the population who owns the country and controls the government are going to decline, I think we'd probably do well to acknowledge that as a POSITIVE STEP.  They've been fucking over most of the planet (including most of us in the USA) for a very long time, and the only thing that'll change their behavior is to stop rewarding it so lavishly.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:44 | 3113152 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Perhaps 70-hour average work-week would make the change more obvious.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:32 | 3111963 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

When Rome was burning only one man (Nero) was fiddling, but to have 535 representatives fiddling simply says it all and is an indication of how badly governed the US people are.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:33 | 3111971 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Rome had Senators.  I guess they must have all been off in their country estates enjoying drunken orgies while Rome burned?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:51 | 3112017 CPL
CPL's picture

Rome had senators in a republic that could be over ruled by the ruling ceasar or a pissed off general that wanted to throw a coup.  As you can see, it worked out exactly how it always does.


It becomes history.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:39 | 3111986 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Contrary to what people think, Nero did not burn Rome. It was just an accident that went out of control having a lot of people living packed together. Nero blamed a cult called the Christians for it. What did Rome in was Nero going on a spending spree after the fires building one megalomaniac project after another, bankrupting the state. Replace megalomaniac project with wars, bailing out banks, etc. and you have an analogy with the US which of course as we all know was tailored after Rome including, perhaps, copying its demise.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:49 | 3112012 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Yes I know but the phrase has stuck. In fact Nero even postponed the Olympics so he could better prepare for the chariot race which he subsequently won on appeal. Needless to say, upon his demise the records were altered and he was stripped of his win. So two these 535 representatives are postponing the inevitable only to eventually find that there is no victory and no honour.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:22 | 3112052 Joe A
Joe A's picture

So perhaps there is hope cause Nero was killed after an uprising that started as a tax revolt! Roman history is fascinating stuff.

I arrowed you up btw for your comments.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:05 | 3112218 Legolas
Legolas's picture

I up arrowed both of you.  Just cuz...

Happy New Year !

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:40 | 3112742 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Cheers and Happy New Year to you too!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:14 | 3112664 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 Nero blamed a cult called the Christians for it.

True he did blame them, but never was there (maybe on par with Caligula), had Rome had a more decadent ruler.

Nor were, or are Christians a cult.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:46 | 3112758 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Religion for some, cult for others.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 21:31 | 3113447 Ain't No Sunshine
Ain't No Sunshine's picture

535 is the problem.  We should  have a constituent to representative ratio of 30,000 to 1, as it was in the beginning.  

10,000 representatives!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:37 | 3111979 Marley
Marley's picture

* - 2011 Buget Deficit

* to the 9th power - Shadow Market

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:39 | 3111984 loub215
loub215's picture

Those who voted for the current government (and I don't just mean Obama, but all branches) voted themselves a right to my table scraps. Since my taxes are going up, my budget is going down, so there tables scraps aren't going to be anywhere near as tasty. Let them eat SPAM!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:13 | 3112083 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

The plan is to leave YOU the table scraps.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:01 | 3112350 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

The lucky ones will have spam. At $3 per sub-1-pound can, it's actually kind of pricey. Its only real benefit is its storage capabilities.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:01 | 3112621 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

I found hormel chili with beans for $1/can in local walmart other day.....wife curled her nose at me as I loaded the cart....LOL



Tue, 01/01/2013 - 21:12 | 3113363 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture your wife an elephant?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 21:17 | 3113387 akak
akak's picture

Obviously not --- or SHE would have been the one doing the shopping at Walmart, based on all my observations.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:52 | 3112022 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

To quote our MMT friends and Dick Cheney "defecits are not a problem".  We print it so lets keep spending our way to prosperity.  Lets create no incentives to ever work again.  Interest is close to 0% so prosperity costs nothing, besides we'll just print it anyhow.  I want and IPad/pod/tv/mansion/car/ and then I'll be happy.  I want a 200k gooberment job I never have to work at or go to and can surf the wweb all day long.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:17 | 3112677 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 Dick Cheney "defecits are not a problem".

The amount of deficits  he was speaking of were not even close to the Obama Legacy.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:54 | 3112025 Misean
Misean's picture

Yes, but unfortunately, to pay that $62B people have to actually work and produce something. Unlike the ctrl-P'ers...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:53 | 3112026 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

FOWARD followed by FREEFALL> Yippie. Hang the fuckers

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 11:56 | 3112031 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Yes We Can --> Fiscal Cliff --> Forward

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:06 | 3112073 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

The sad thing is that while the 62 billion is meaningless to the Federal Gov, it represents a very real theft from the productive economy.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:16 | 3112091 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Perfect, just perfect. A picture worth a thousand words. Happy New Year Zero Hedge. So glad you are here in 2013. The truth will be known.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:21 | 3112106 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

So easy a caveman... or the average American could understand it.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:23 | 3112114 jvetter713
jvetter713's picture

Well...implementing anything more significant is above their pay grade.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:28 | 3112127 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

I envision jumping off that red cliff and landing on the green cushion, thats gonna leave a mark! Freefall with no chute. When I was a kid my brother and I used

to put a mattress outside on the ground and jump from a second story window on to it. That was "fun", this looks like a jump out of a 200 story window onto a napkin. Not

even Wyle Coyote will survive this fall.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:19 | 3112959 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Wile E. either. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:28 | 3112128 The Miser
The Miser's picture

The USS Titanic hit the finascial iceburg several years ago and we are sinking fast.  What we are whitnessing is the MSM band playing on the aft of the ship.   The distress calls have gone out and no one is listening.  Women and children first?  No.  This time the corporate leaders, banksters and the politicians are first in the life boats.   The rest of us are locked up in third class.   

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:40 | 3112301 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Ah yes, welcome to steerage class citizenship.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 21:56 | 3113539 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I thought it horrifying that when they got the cameras into the sunk Titanic they found there were locked gates leading to the lower levels. TPTB obviously knew they were going down and made sure there wouldn't be anymore competition for the lifeboats. Things to ponder people.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:30 | 3112137 UGrev
UGrev's picture

And that buys us what exactly?  4-5 days of .gov operating costs? 


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 12:42 | 3112168 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Hmmm. Which of those two "cliffs" would I rather jump from. Let me think...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:27 | 3112273 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

2011 "BUDGET deficit"?  I didn't think we had a budget for 2011.

That's the FISCAL deficit.  We had a "budget surplus" back during Clinton's term while the national debt continued to increase, so basically, putting the word "budget" in front of something just makes it into a lie of some kind or another.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:16 | 3112951 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Clinton Surplus? am I missing something? didnt he rob from SS to create the illusion of revenue? 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:50 | 3113160 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Bubba mostly got lucky with revenues from the dot-bomb bubble and there were some minor savings from Newt's Contract on America.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:28 | 3112275 Iambic PentaMaster
Iambic PentaMaster's picture

Obamacare Tax = Deficit Spending = Obamanomics = Global Obama Depression

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:32 | 3112281 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Free Stuff Army won!! End of discussion.

Higher and higher deficits. 

Shumer:  Get back to work Bernanke and print!!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:33 | 3112287 stiler
stiler's picture

city hall or world trade center

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:34 | 3112290 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

From Forbes, small and medium LLC's and S-Corps will get hit...

Fiscal Cliff Tax Deal: What Does It Mean for Small Business?

ORDINARY INCOME:  While the tax deal increases the rates at a higher level than first proposed by the President ($200k single/250k married) – it does increase the rates from 35% to 39.6% at $400k single and $450k married (talk about a marriage penalty).   From 2012 tax policy this is a tax increase of $396 billion over 10 years.   Don’t forget, there is also the 0.9 percent tax increase on ordinary income over 200k/250k already set to begin in 2013 thanks to the health bill.  Given that small and medium businesses are overwhelmingly organized as pass-thrus (LLC’s; S Corps; partnerships) – it is the ordinary income rate that hits these business owners – not the corporate rate (which was untouched in this deal).

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:59 | 3113179 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"Well, it may be three percent, but it's half of small business income. Because, obviously, the top three percent have half of the gross income for those companies that we would term small businesses. And this is why you don't want to punish these people at a time when you have a weak economy." - Orangina


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:41 | 3112291 Pseudolus
Pseudolus's picture

It must be me, but Im not seeing the problem here - or why we should be disturbed.

Continuity of Gov entails this for ever now. Theyll hit the red button whenever it suits...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:17 | 3112956 UGrev
UGrev's picture

I'm not worried. What I'm worried about is that this bullshit over-shadows the gun grab.  Fiscal Cliff? been there, done that.. haven't hit the bottom yet however.  We're still free falling on free money.. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:43 | 3112307 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

We're borrowing money and paying people NOT to work for years - without getting any 'value created' in return allowing them to buy more stuff made in China and elsewhere.  We're borrowing even more to pay for wars that gain us NOTHING in return (short of being hated even more while killing and injuring more of our own people).

At least FDR paid peopel to do SOMETHING - build parks, roads, buildings.  You were in the CCC or WPA - a former professor might be part of a road laying crew but he was WORKING in exchange for what he got from government.  The moeny earned went to buy stuff made by other AMERICANS.

All we're doing niow is funding an ever growing war machine and financial monster who are sucking up every dollar they can - while bribing people not to riot.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:48 | 3112321 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

OT:  Diane Feinstein on why she owns a gun to protect herself from terrorists:

But you are not allowed to.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:14 | 3112498 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Guns for them, not for us.. little people.   


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:51 | 3112327 Stud Duck
Stud Duck's picture

Silver guy, and those after, I have done the same thing for the last 5 years. I did have a son and son in law that took me serious in 2007, Son sold high priced pulling tractor for lots of buck, bought a small farm in 2007. Son in law was about to dive into a new house in late 2007, talked him out of spending $235K for a house, advised him of the "black cloud on the horizon" in housing, he waited and picked up a $250K house for $125, nicer than what he would of built.

I now preach what Ron Paul has just advised, we are past the point of no return. I have converted a retired Federal investigator, a retired Army General (he was a hard one) and they all have look at the facts, agree now of not if but when this great reset will occur.

I can assure all, if this midwestern drought continues, it will be here by the end of next summer. The Ogalala aquafer is about dry, the rain patterns are continueing to look dry, so ya better get that suppy of beans and dried meat stored away, its is going to be really ugly.



Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:32 | 3112413 Room 101
Room 101's picture

+1. Thanks for the post.  If you have any further details, we'd definitely like to hear.  Not looking for the secrets of the Temple mind you, just actionable information that we can use. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:52 | 3112330 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

That big, tall, red block has the shape of the World Trade Towers. Is that symbolic?


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 13:53 | 3112332 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

Why the hell have income tax at all?  When a nation can borrow unlimited amounts at zero interest rates-we might as well go all the way as long as someone out there is willing to lend us the money.....forget taxes...just borrow...


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:02 | 3113195 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Great idea...40 years ago.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 03:06 | 3114204 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

The federal income tax is simply a means of removing "excess" liquidity from the market so as to dampen inflationary effects.  If the federal budget must be sustained by way of deficit spending then taxes MUST go up as there must be a way to ensure bond holders that their long coupons will not be rendered worthless due run-away inflation.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:02 | 3112346 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Remember Independance Day?

For who does that apply to?

It is time for passive resistance.  I will look after me and my family, if I have extra I will help others.

Big Bro, you are no longer part of my life.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:30 | 3112408 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Our two income family went to one after the looters came out into the daylight. Get your WEALTH the hell out of the USSA ASAP before capital controls are instituted to cover the bill. I don't care how little you earn the minute TPTB THINK the economy is on the mend taxes for EVERYONE are going to the moon. Kiss the mortgage deduction goodbye as the scum running the country just found a new tool to enable them to continue to buy votes. Sequester, it's the OTHER guys fault for the cuts...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:35 | 3112423 Room 101
Room 101's picture

+1. Thanks for the post and New Year's Greetings from the Ministry of Love!  If you have any further actionable information to share, it would be appreciated.  How were you able to make it a go on one income?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:53 | 3112461 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:42 | 3112580 Room 101
Room 101's picture

+1 Ain't that the truth.  The debtor is slave to the lender.  How did you go about it?  Financial Peace University? 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:03 | 3113197 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Best of luck achieving something you can't even manage to spell correctly.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:11 | 3112369 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Spent NYE in Western Maryland with friends. At midnight, we heard what sounded like large demolition charges going off to the West. Real window shakers, not fireworks. To the South, we heard AK-47s. To the East, AR-16s on full automatic. This went on for 15 minutes. Glorious thing to behold.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:21 | 3112388 docj
docj's picture

They will never, ever, cut spending. Ever.

Let. It. Burn.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:28 | 3112398 Element
Element's picture

Um ... given there's nominal growth ... and has been since at least Q4 2009 ... three years ... why is there a $1.1 trillion deficit?


Something does not seem right about that.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:04 | 3113199 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Were you under the impression that corporations pay taxes?

Has that nominal growth occured in median income?

There's your answer.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:59 | 3113307 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

overall receipts were 2.6 requested v 2.5 enacted (whatever that means). corporations were requested to pay 329 billion and "enacted" 237 billion for 2011

corporate income tax has generally tracked at around 1-2% of GDP over the last thirty might ask what happened to all those corporate profits from starting up overseas ventures in bophuthatswana and the like..certainly free trade has resulted in negative growth for the US with no revenue (thank you fuck face Clinton)

median incomes have dropped/remained statc because of the switch from full to part time work and the general preference of the labor force not to work 3 part time jobs (stacking shelves at walmart, fliping burgers or filling out census forms)  a day.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 22:40 | 3113680 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

It's about the share of tax revenue shouldered by corps  (which used to be 6-10% of GDP and only recently dropped to 1-2%...coincidentally the same time that our debts have skyrocketed) and the share born by actual people (which has stayed the same or increased since the 40s). As for the "overseas ventures in bophutswana" was repatriated under Bush damn near tax-free.

You assume the transition to 29 hour-per week retail jobs is intentional?! LOL

There was a time when the filthy rich (i.e. those who don't even have jobs for income) paid alongside Main St too, but cons can't even remember that they were the ones running the huge deficits in the 80s long enough to accept responsibility for their part of this mess.

It's like trying to have a Lincoln-Douglas debate with an Alzheimer's patient.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:25 | 3112399 blindman
blindman's picture

happy goo year.

Max Keiser: ‘Fiscal cliff’ theater distracting from real problems
Posted on January 1, 2013 by stacyherbert lems/
the fiscal cliff represents the monetary rot that is our monetary
system. low interest rates both sustained and destroyed the economy
resulting in systemic failure in 2008 at which point credit was not
available to the wider system as it was then over leveraged and not credit
worthy . but how could that be? where did the “money” go?
it went all over the world. the monetary and fiscal policies were global
and the “pricing” impact was speculatively bouncing on the surface like
an inflated lung tethered behind a cigarette boat going 99 knots !
( i don’t know where that came from?) the option of slowing the boat
was never considered.
so the crisis was evident at least to everyone then. the monetary solution
was to reduce interest rates further and eliminate any restrictive laws
regarding fraud or stealing for the connected monetary conspirators that
might imply actual accounting for the debt and “money” as the money
system rot was so odious it could not be observed directly or held in the
same room as someone who has the capacity to smell or see or think.
the tylers posted a chart recently showing the correlation between banks
loans and deposits. since 2008, the loans have been generally steady.
this must represent the liquidity in the real economy, where money comes
from credit at usury for main st., the deposits for the banks have been
increasing since 2008 by 2 trillion over the loans to date. that is the policy,
monetary. that is the system. crime, no accounting and fraud pays with just
minor fines for being flagrant and getting caught. when it comes to the
financial sector the fed doesn’t govern or restrict anything.
their mandate is to capitalise the banks and then lie concerning
price stability and employment, then confuse the public when they
catch on that the monetary system is one grand conceptual lie
(the forest) that so constructed and maintained distributes all the power
to a certain sector of the culture and economy, that is the bankers.
they are powerful by systemic decree, a lie concerning the nature of
the forest and the ownership of the forest and “everything in it”.
the financial
sector systemically rapes main st. for a living, prerogative of property
ownership with no fear of prosecution, while government holds
it down. if main st. passes out shame flogging, torture and terror are employed to
wake it up for more.
these crazy freaks in d.c. think they were and are destined to rule the world.
not just their world, the entire world ! they believe this is their “calling”, their
birth right and the only laws they abide, temporarily, are the ones they write
themselves and also choose to abide as they enjoy the highest capacity for
discernment among their peers. they believe themselves to be the best and the
brightest. psychopathy and power render these people blind to the obvious
evidence of their insanity, their inhumanity; corpses mean nothing to them.
the fiscal cliff is not so much a fiscal cliff but the crumbling of the ground
constructed of monetary rot, inevitable.
shadow finance? shadow government? shadow accounting? financial
shadow wars where no one knows what the hell is happening. and
no one sees a problem with the root concepts underlying the money system,
everyone accepts it, more essential debt, at the foundation of human intercourse
and war making.
that is the devil’s greatest trick. not that he doesn’t exist, but that he is
other than man’s cleverness to obfuscate the truth by means of employment of
admirable attributes that others would disregard to their own detriment and be
harmed for their lack of appreciation and participation.
what can be said of a system that is potentially rewarding in the short term
but on which reflexivity results in mass casualty and collective failure.
you can see that i think the forest was conceived to be burned down with
everyone and everything in it. that is the concept at every root and
nutrient in the system. those that exit the forest, “the owners”, can see it and believe,
mistakenly, that they are safe from their own design. that is funny.
What is the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy, and how are they related?
happy new year ~ !
A Record $2 Trillion In Deposits Over Loans – The Fed’s Indirect Market Propping Pathway Exposed
there is 2 trillion dollars of distributed direct dilution of the currency there,
the liquidity supplied to protect the owners from the fire that was started to
burn down the trees in the real economy when credit was cut off. ” by controlling
the money supply they will create booms and busts untill ….homeless in your
own country” . or this variation
“If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered.”
everyone has seen the quote ….
what country? “the pump don’t work cause the vandals took the handle”. bd
the insanity of it appears from the idea that content and context are
knowable and observable in “reality”. man has become that beast that
refuses to be restrained by the context of his own making, refuses to be
conscious of this fact. ie. insane, so we do not know either the forest nor
can we appreciate any tree. 2013, but i am going to cheer up !
maybe win some silver ?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:36 | 3113259 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Bravo, Blindman. Bravo.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 22:01 | 3113560 blindman
blindman's picture

thank you for your kind encouragement.
peace gmad.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:28 | 3112406 Room 101
Room 101's picture

To summarize, we're screwed. Thanks for the info.  

Here's some actionable information that I hope y'all can actually put to use.  There have been a lot of stories about the difficulty of finding guns and ammo of late.  Here are a couple of websites where you can compare prices and availability:

I hope you find it useful. 


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:45 | 3112443 Cman5000
Cman5000's picture

@ Room 101 shot guns and long guns are easy to find. Some store still have handguns but AR,AK Ammo and Mags are in short supply i bought the last 2 AR -15 10 round mags last week at Gander Mtn. Dicks's sporting goods is out ammo and doesn't know when they will get 223 back in.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:01 | 3112477 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Yeah, it's the mean ol' nasty looking rifles, normal capacity mags, and some calibers of ammo that are tough to find right now.  The ammo shortage is the most problematic in my opinion.  A firearm is just an expensive paperweight without it.   

Long reloading. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:39 | 3112434 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Why don't America's voters just say no?

Maybe then they will get it through their thick skulls we don't need to spend more on military by far than any other five nations combined on this planet with two oceans seperating us from the world and allies to the North and South of the borders?


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:13 | 3112660 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

you mean like Irwin Schiff or Wesley Snipes, saying no, refusing to pay taxes? Or like Occupy protesters SAYING everything is corrupt, then getting beat senseless by law-breaking cops? That kind of "no"?  Any good rapist ... oops, I mean bankster ... knows if you can't make it stick then you're really saying yes

Oh, you didn't realize this was completely non-consenting rape of every family, small business, community and the entire economy? Oh, how quaint.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:18 | 3112674 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

 "Why don't America's voters just say no?"

90+ million of them do say no, to voting.  You could say their indoctrination/abdication is complete.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:13 | 3112948 Dineroguru
Dineroguru's picture

But how would we support the international global cabal?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:41 | 3113265 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Because even if you did that, we'd still have $1.2T in spending on old folks and $950B in UI, foodstamps, and Medicaid?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:39 | 3112435 Cman5000
Cman5000's picture

I wonder how much longer this cluster mess can go on ?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:42 | 3112578 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Longer than most can remain sapient, sane, or solvent...

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 14:53 | 3112459 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

Well hell, I am acutally relieved.  I thought the deficit was around 1.3 trillion / year.  This will give is another 2 months or so before complete economic devistation.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:17 | 3112504 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

The only rational reason Dick Cheney, and now Obama et al, and our elected Representatives can live with ever higher debt is...

Because of their collective geo-political end-game: Russia and China.

It comes down to a war of attrition for now, I.e. if our fiat systems can last long enough to fully encircle and conquer them. Hence the need for the Iron Dome by the IDF, and the 'need' for the Anti-Missile shield in Eastern Europe, and incremental land, oil and gold grabs in the Middle East.

The problem is, they (Russians and Chinese) are wise to this Neocon 'Manifest Destiny', and are making their own moves and counter-moves in this monetary and fiscal cold war, while also prepping for a hot war that is creeping ever closer to their door step.

At the risk of creating Cognitive Dissonance for some, the question you have to ask yourself, if looking for a persistent multi-generational Motive, is this: Who has the proven historic track of conquests and global colonialism? The Brits, Europeans and Americans (descendants of these two), or the Russians and Chinese?
Does the Commandment "Thou shallt not covet...." come to mind for you, or is your upbringing and cultural bias so ingrained, that you cannot see The End Game?

For only in the context of an End Game (Begin With The End In Mind), do such seemingly 'irrational' behaviors make rational sense. If they were 'prepping' for some natural or extra-terrestrial-caused disaster, they would not be targeting each other, or dismantling the Constitution.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:50 | 3112602 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

If I understand your point, it is this: America and the Republicans are the bad guys. They have always been the bad guys, and they were the only bad guys until the Democrats became too much like Republicans. Your are parroting the theme of CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, the Washington Post, The Columbia School of Journalism, Time, Newsweek, SPLC, ADL, Michael Moore, OWS, Huffington Post, NPR, etc.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:22 | 3112688 DosZap
DosZap's picture

and they were the only bad guys until the Democrats became too much like Republicans.

Don't you have that ASS BACKWARDS?.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:50 | 3113285 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

No sir, I’m not seeking to do either.  Not parroting, as I think very little of the lame MSM -- whose only agenda is to manage their careers, while boosting the ratings and serving the few masters that now control the bulk of the US media.   Nor using a "Good Guys, Bad Guys" model, as I consider it inadequate and part of the problem that serves to keep the people ignorant and disorganized.

I’m trying to convey a Systems-approach that bypasses the usual paradigms.  If I were to elaborate...

I’d first ask:  “Assuming that there is a Global Elite of some kind, who might they be?  And given enough time, what would be their ultimate global agenda?  Surely, if you were to Rule the World one day, “being rich” can no longer be the objective!  How might they maintain such an agenda over many generations?”  Regardless if we call it a “NWO Agenda” or any ID of convenience, the point is, if a (small or large) group wanted to ‘Rule The World’… How might they do it?

Taking a rational approach, and using the principle of “Begin With The End In Mind” from Steven Covey’s 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, I first looked at attributes required for this Elite:  Brains, Money, Motive & Ambition, Experience, a Global Network and Multi-Generational Lineage to maintain such a vision or agenda.  After numerous iterations, I eventually down-selected (filtered) from a larger list of suspects, to end up with two groups working in tandem:  the Aristocracy (Feudal Lords) and Bankers (Monetary Lords).  Whether they claim to descend from William the Conqueror or King David, they seem the only ones who fit the bill, and who make a natural symbiotic alliance.  One could also add the top echelons of Organized Religion to the mix, as secular imperialism helps expand their ‘sphere of influence’ (market share) to new areas.  I think it useful to model the concept of The Ruling Elite as “leveraged groups” who are organized as a nested series or as a pyramid, and who have become entrenched over the centuries.  As such, they could care less about any or all political or religious structures, as they are beholden only to themselves.

Taking this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion – reducto ad absurdum – you’d want to take over the dominant global player’s system (the UK in the 1600's-1800's, then the US in the 1800's to present), build on it and leverage its alliances (EU, NATO), to gradually conquer the rest with its resources and markets (weakest to strongest:  ...and finally  Russia and China).  I think they are making a comeback (Feudalism 2.0), and won’t be happy till they rule the whole world and remake it in their image.  When all natural enemies are gone, they'll roll out Feudalism 3.0, that will 'rebalance' the world's population to the remaining renewable and non-renewable resources.  The Davos meetings can be seen more as a form of leveraging or 'crowd-sourcing the very clever and nuveau riche' than Conspiring & Planning.  The real action is probably Behind The Curtain, behind the Veil of The Holy of Holies, so to speak.

In the meantime, fiat money games, economies, debts, elections, crises, wars, etc are all SOP for these… people.  All I’m asking my ZH friends, is to keep sight of the Big Picture (the Global Endgame who rules over the growing populations, shiting demographics and diminishing resources), lest we too get bogged down in the weeds of detail.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 23:06 | 3113717 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

I agree. My theory is that it seems like a multigenerational conspiracy that would accept stagnating or going backwards technologically if that is what it takes to put us serfs back in our place and get rid of many of us in the process. Then they can assume their rightful place and there won't be so many of us wasting their natural resources. And yes they would take over the weak countries first and save Russia and China for last.

However, they do not seem to be doing very well unless they have some pretty impressive aces up their sleeve.

I think they might settle for controlling everyone in America and Europe. In this they are doing very well.

Hence the push to disarm us and the push to control our carbon footprint. I don't guess I have to tell you which party wants to disarm the little guy and which perpetrates the Global Warming hoax to control his carbon footprint.

But of course, each party has a role to play, and together they always help The Prince moves forward overall with his plans.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:51 | 3113287 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I know you're in full-on Stockholm syndrome from listening to too much neocon radio, but try to pull your head out of your butt for just a few precious seconds.

Most, if not ALL, of the stations you mentioned have been fully supportive if not complicit in the American militarist experiment, from demonizing Phillipinos as inhuman savages at the turn of the 20th century right up to their "Rah Rah" coverage of the most idiotic and unnecessary invasion since the Brits tried to take the Faulklands at the turn of the 21st.

Now, stuff your head back up there and crank up your Fox News, ClearChannel, Rushbo, Michelle Malkin, Dick Morris, and Michael Savage for immediate re-programming.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 23:04 | 3113681 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

No. I do not listen to neocon radio. I tried it once for about two months. I have also tried all of the sources I mentioned and more. That is how I know their agenda.

Therefore, I just falsified your theory. Now you should go to my site at for an alternative to the Daily Kos or wherever you get your mainstream memes from.

I voted for Gary Johnson BTW.

If you are not mightily embarrassed that your very negative accusation was just outed as 100% wrong, then your soul is definitely sick.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:45 | 3113276 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

The Russians and Chinese are keenly aware that money is a concept, but actual resources are not.

Ask the Tibetans about Chinese conquest and the Chechens about the Soviets.


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:34 | 3112563 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The WWIII has started 12 years ago, and their ultimate enemy is you and your wallet. 

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:50 | 3112600 The Heart
The Heart's picture


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 15:50 | 3112608 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Happy New Year!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:02 | 3112619 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Yes but at least we stuck it to the rich for being rich, because it's so unfair that they're rich.



Now shut up and print!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:10 | 3112651 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Bernanke and the Fed will print beyond anyone's expectations.

Chuck Shumer: Get to work (printing).

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:05 | 3112632 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

The US taxpayer needs a good divorce attorney.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:09 | 3112645 alfbell
alfbell's picture

All the wrong reasons.

Because this IS a prison planet. There are about a dozen people running it (close family members and proteges have taken over for those that have died off, so as to continue the game). They are all in big financial institutions (such as the BofE) and are all on the boards of national and international mental health organizations (which includes Big Pharma and the major injection of psychotrobic drugs into the civilization). Luckily, they failed at getting the needed legislation into countries via control of mental health organizations... the objective was to be able to arrest and hold people and use lobotomies and shock treatment to utterly destroy any attackers or whistle blowers. The "Alaska Bill" or "Siberian Bill" almost got passed in the USA but was luckily defeated. Opponents of the oligarchy would've been arrested and taken to Alaska, institutionalized and then lobotomized or shocked to the point of zero threat.

An "incredible" is something that can happen and take its course because...  no one would ever believe it. The idea of International Bankers, with the arrogant idea that they are the aristrocracy of Earth and know what is best for themselves and the rest of the population,  is too incredible for your average person to believe. Thus, their gameplan moves forward, unhampered.

They failed in their mission to control via mental health, but they did succeed financially by getting every major country in debt to them, bankrupting them so that they could control the politics within each country. But then the next thing is even more incredible... there are aliens here, have been for a very long time, and THEY are the top of the command chain... not the international bankers, power elite, oligarchy or whatever you want to call them.

Why are they doing this? There really isn't a strong reason or purpose. It has been going on for so long, they have been doing it here and on other planets that it has just become a habit. They are seeking total control so that they have... total control. There is no other goal in sight than that. It is an old old game. The people of Earth will never believe this, which is why it is happening right out in the open. People need an answer for the things being done so that they can make sense of it all. Their answer is... "so many of our leaders and politicians are either just plain stupid or they are corrupt and/or lazy, and they have bad judgement and observational power and thus keep making policy mistakes". This allows them to put their head down on the pillow at nite. But... that is a wrong answer. A high school student has more native ability and common sense to run our economy and government better than the existing scene. So what does that tell you?

Greenspan, Bernanke, IMF, BIS, presidents, Congress people, etc. are not in the know at all. They are all pawns, taking their orders from down the command channel, believing that they are doing the right thing. The aliens are among us but not playing a role or in the publc eye.
By the way, a couple of these international bankers were Cecil King and Sir Emsley Carr. Both dead and have been replaced by who knows who.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:55 | 3112958 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

alfbell, that is the exact same comment you copied and pasted from previously:

... there are aliens here, have been for a very long time, and THEY are the top of the command chain...

So, I will match your redundant bla, bla, blah, with reposting my reply to you:

I am an agnostic when it comes to "aliens."

What you say, alfbell, might be metaphorically true? However, there is nothing in the way of real evidence that can provide any way to determine what might be literally true, since there is no agreement possible about what the word "alien" in that context means. Whatever "aliens" might be, or whether those are behind the scenes, is not possible to prove, and not even possible to understand according to any common sense or science that I am aware of.

I do not find it necessary to believe in "aliens" ... although I could not prove that anything so strange could not exist.

I am provoked by your post about "aliens."  I repost my stuff about that because one can find lots of other people who assert similar things to what you have, alfbell, and, like you, they often sound like otherwise sensible and practical people.

From a metaphorical perspective, the humans who have evolved to become the "top carnivores" inside the overall human ecology appear to be "aliens" to the masses of people that are their prey. Metaphorically speaking, those "aliens" are predators, that are devolving into parasites. Their values are so different than the values of the people whom they prey upon that they may seem like "aliens" to each other.

I have collected some of this wild stuff, which I do not automatically dismiss, but rather struggle to attempt to assign any meaning to, in this thread: Solar Flare Co-incidences? Attempting to figure out whether any "aliens" are real requires that one first have some theory about how "aliens" could exist, inside of an understanding of the world that makes those kinds of "aliens" possible. My view is that human beings do NOT understand how the world works, and those who pretend they do are lying. ... We do NOT understand how the Sun works, and from that follows how we must necessarily fail to understand practically everything else, since the Sun was the source of energy for more than 99% of everything else we do!

There are wildly different ideas about what "aliens" may be ... Some suggest the theory that "aliens" are beings that come from other dimensions. There is no doubt that there are force fields resonating, and there is no doubt that there are way more things which exist, that are not visible, than things which exist, that are visible.

We only discovered the nature of electromagnetic energy, and have become able to detect that, and to use that, relatively recently. The path of those developments has been mathematics, then mathematical physics, both of which were developed many decades BEFORE there was any practical applications of those mental breakthroughs. It is plausible that there are still other forms of energy, which we do not understand, and can not use in any practical ways, but which nevertheless still exist and are real (although mostly invisible to most of us now.)  BREAKTHROUGHS in basic science could enable us to understand the possible reality of different kinds of "aliens" that we can not possibly understand now. DIFFERENT KINDS OF BASIC BREAKTHROUGHS could lead to understanding different kinds of aliens.

One kind of "alien" becomes somewhat similar to the historical concepts of angels and demons, i.e. those exist in other dimensions, which we do not understand anything about, in any practical way, although those may well exist. That kind of "alien" is far different than the ExtraTerrestrial "aliens" that physically exist, in our world, like us, but which were able to somehow travel through time and space to visit our planet. That kind of ET alien must also have access to technologies which are not understood at all. There might even be some kind of overlapping between technologies that allow practical travel from star to star, and which enable travelling through different dimensions ??? Those different kinds of "aliens" are not mutually exclusive. They may both "exist," and, if so, then there are certainly many different kinds of either of those different kinds of "aliens."

An enormous problem with the absence of real evidence about "aliens" arises with both of those possible basic kinds, which is that IF there was any real evidence, then there is no doubt that the people who had that evidence would suppress it, in order to take advantage of their knowledge, while keeping other people ignorant. Therefore, the absence of evidence about "aliens" does not prove they do not exist, since it is entirely plausible that any such real evidence would be kept secret.

My current OPINION is that most "aliens" are mostly the same as the historical "demons." They do not physically exist they way we do, with our material bodies, however, they are energy patterns, on other possible dimensions of energy fields, which are partially organized, in their realms, and they may interact with us in our domain. That kind of alien is then analogous to the notions about chreodes, presented by people like Rupert Sheldrake. EVERY living thing is surrounded and interpenetrated by resonant energy fields, on multiple dimensions. Thus, ALL living beings have their own associated "spirits," in the sense of some organized energy fields that they resonate with.

Different human beings have relatively different bodies and brains, which corresponds to the different energy fields, or spirits, that they resonate with.  Just as every other living thing evolves in a continuous context of energy fields, so too, different human beings evolved different spirits, which their brains and bodies resonate with.

The people who became the top carnivores in the human ecology, the top predator/parasites, i.e., the banksters and their buddies, are surrounded by "spirits" which are "alien" to those which most of their preyed upon people resonate with. That kind of notion about "aliens" is then both metaphorically and literally true. It would have both an evolutionary and historical reality, which would have developed.

Certain human populations became more and more those who act like the top carnivores inside the overall human ecology, while other human populations became more like the herbivores. The "spirits" that surround those kinds of people have become very different. Those who are the topmost predator/parasites metaphorically seem like evil aliens or demons to other people who act like the productive who get preyed upon.

Of course, nothing I have said above discounts that it MIGHT also be possible that extraterrestrial kinds of "aliens," from other star systems, MIGHT also visit Earth, and they MIGHT have influenced life here, including influenced the evolution of human beings in the past.

As I said, I am an agnostic about "aliens."  I have no first-hand knowledge whatsoever about any of that. I have never seen a UFO, and certainly never seen any "aliens" of any kind whatsoever. To me, everything regarding this is just more stories, told by other people, and therefore, I can only attempt to sift through those stories, while trying to shift gears to decide to what degree those other people were lying, when they told their stories.

... As I said in my first reply above, the word "alien" has no agreed upon meaning. Thus, the discussion of the "reality" about them is practically impossible to engage in meaningfully, at the present time. Human beings are way, way too ignorant about the world around them! Since we do NOT understand how the Sun works, and the mainstream astronomers who claim they do can be proven to be lying, all the rest of our understanding with respect to almost everything important also falls apart! Since we do not understand even the most important things, like our own Sun, therefore, how can we possibly understand whatever "aliens" may be? 

As I said, my OPINION is that what people refer to as the "aliens," that control the human beings who are the ruling elites, are primarily the same as the historical "demons" that existed in other dimension, which are "real" in the sense that other dimensions of resonating energy fields are "real." Thus, BOTH the metaphorical and literal MIGHT overlap to some degree ... HOWEVER, I have not got anything to back that OPINION up but a whole bunch of other people's stories ... with no first-hand knowledge, and NO EVIDENCE!!!

Obviously, any PROVEN reality regarding any aliens (that was not just another false flag hoax, which is more probable) would CHANGE the past, and therefore, CHANGE THE FUTURE!!! Predictions of the future that could meaningfully integrate good information about any kinds of real "aliens" would obviously become radically different than predictions that did not do that, or could not do that!

One of the paradoxical aspects of futurology is the general trend for that to be like insurance. Insurance is a HUGE influence: one of the pillars of the financial systems. In the world of insurance, there tends to be a correlation between the very rare, and that which can have the most significant impact.  Things like Earth being hit by a significant solar flare, or being obviously visited by real aliens, are WAY OUT THERE ...  Those are very rare, and apparently impossible to predict, since we do not understand the basics. But nevertheless, they would be drastic GAME CHANGERS, which would wipe out the frame of reference that we were using in all of our other more normal predictions!

Overall, I believe that people mostly behave according to social habits that they learn by imitation. I think that real world can mostly be explained by people carrying on their morbid habits, despite there being technologies which have made them become trillions of times more powerful. I tend to believe that regarding human beings as hyped-up stupid little monkeys is more plausible an explanation for the way the world is working, rather than that there are "aliens" secretly directing what happens.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:59 | 3113064 jomama
jomama's picture

Pass that shit over here!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:24 | 3113113 alfbell
alfbell's picture

Radical: I posted it again because for some reason the first time I posted it it didn't post and because when it did finally post it was at the very end of that thread and the activity had died off (I went back to it a few times and there were never any responses). Sorry that I missed your response earlier.

By aliens I mean not from here (Earth). Beings that can take over a human body at birth (just as we here on earth do unknowingly every time we are "born"). Actually, they can take over a body later in its life too or influence the person in that body too. I know... this brings up the debate of reincarnation or past lives but I think both of these are givens now and the proof is there. How many documented accounts are there of people who have been traumatized or "died" and found themselves outside their bodies looking at their bodies and the environment? How many documentations have their been of people arriving at a town or location where they have never been in this lifetime and immediately having a sense that they had been there before and then commence to tell you all the details about the area that they haven't even seen yet (where there old house is, where they were buried, where the battle field was, etc.). I've had my own personal experiences with this.

Talk to some young children when they are 5 or 6, before the teachers and parents invalidate their memory and tell them it is all hogwash, and ask them about who they were and what they did in their last life and you'll get some surprising answers. Not too long ago, a little 6 year old who overheard me talking to someone about land, later came up to me and proceeded to tell me about his last life as a farmer, his wife, his kids and his farm. Pretty amazing. (I know... if he could only remember the number of his bank account or where he hid that box of gold coins!)

Of course there is a lot of conspiracy crap and delusion that messes this all up for anyone who is truly perceptive and interested (but that is part of the incredible aspect that keeps it from being fully known). There is plenty of proof about visitations and spacecraft.

Green glass has been found underground. That means there were nuclear explosions in the past. That means there was technology and past civilizations wound up blowing themselves up and annihilating themselves. You're standing on top of civilizations past. Call it reincarnation on a social or civilization level.

I can't say or tell you anymore, and wouldn't share my experiences with you... you already think I'm a lunatic.

If you think that what is happening on this planet is due to man being stupid and incompetent then you are not being very observant or logical. You have to intentionally, with malice aforethought, go out of your way to screw things up to the way they are today. Despite human shortcomings, the emotions of greed and fear, the evil that resides and manifests in certain people... in general and in majority, people have common sense, they can balance their bank accounts and run a household, run a successful business, invent amazing things and technologies, etc. etc.

But they can't administrate a country or government? They will screw up so badly as to cause the collapse of national economies,and the global economy?

There has been a lot of interference in man's activities all throughout the past. There is a lot more to the rise and fall of empires such as Rome, Chaldea, Egypt, etc. then one knows. (By the way, you can look at drawings in caves and tombs in Egypt and Tibet that show spacecraft and aliens. People would be shocked today if they could go back in time and have noticed that that Pharoah standing there had a blast gun in his belt and a spacecraft was parked around the other side of that pyramid!

Man naturally is a cooperative being that predicts the future and intentionally takes the actions necessary to guarantee survival and a future. History would make you think otherwise. There is intervention going on here on many levels.

You and I could sit down and work out a better government, infrastructure and system for this country then exists. Yet all of these Ph.D's in political science, economics, sociology, etc. and career politicians, and business leaders can't? Hmmm... doesn't that make you wonder?





Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:18 | 3113223 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

alfbell, I do not think you are a "lunatic." However, I have NEVER had any personal experiences such as what you describe. I have only met a few people who told me that they did, and read many, many stories about other people's experiences and interpretation of those experiences.

The things you describe I struggle to try to understand, within my own common sense, which has ZERO experiences regarding anything like that ever happening directly to me. Therefore, of course, I tend to believe that the reasons why things are so bad are that there were chronic political problems, which placed people in conflicts, and that they resolved those conflicts by fighting ... and the way that those things turned out were that those who were the best at being dishonest ended up winning those fights. Therefore, I tend to believe that the main thrust of the evolution of civilization has been it was controlled by the people who were the best at being deceitful. That is the primary way that I understand the world. I do not need any notions of "aliens" to explain things. Rather, when I try to imagine whatever degree of reality any "aliens" might have, I end up recapitulating the same notions of evolutionary ecology, namely, that evil "aliens" would be associated with evil people.

My answer to why the world appears to be so screwed up, and why politicians appear to be so incompetent, is that there was a long history of conflicts, being resolved by those who were the best at deceits prevailing. Thus, I regard our puppet politicians as having their stings pulled by a covert system of organized crime, that has evolved for thousands of years.

That is the way I understand the financial numbers of the government of the USA being NUTS, such as the chart in the article above illustrated.

Although I know NOTHING first hand about any "aliens," to whatever degree they were real, then I would expect that they would have coevolved with the human beings. For me, there is NO PROOF whatsoever about any "aliens," other than stories that some people have told. Therefore, I can only muddle through attempting to understand something that I am not sure even exists, nor what it truly means IF it does exist. I tend to regard reincarnation as more being due to genetic recombination, than anything more transcendentally spiritual. But then, I do try to reconcile ancient mysticism with postmodernizing sciences, in my own ways. Therefore, I attempt to remain open-minded about "aliens" ... Like I said, I am well-aware of lots of other people who assert similar things to what you have!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:44 | 3113274 alfbell
alfbell's picture

Marijuana: What is true for you is true for you. You have personal integrity and that is very good. You also keep an open mind and don't accept anything into your universe unless it is based upon empirical evidence which is also very good. Stay true to your guidelines and keep seeking and I'm sure you'll continue to evolve and succeed. I'm doing the same thing.

Note: I really don't want to talk about or expose certain things but just so you know, I've been very deeply involved throughout the majority of my life in activities that have to do with the subjects we've been talking about. I've had amazing experiences and have witnessed others having the same as well. It is all empirical for me. There is no belief or faith in my universe. I only accept what I can experience, sense or perceive. We're all on our own personal track of discovery. Fare well.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:17 | 3112676 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Been on the fence on this one but I think we can make it official: "It's 2013 and the Banksters have run the table." I mean let's face it "they got all our money...and all our Happy Returns." With interest rates this low "forever"...deficits this high...forever...our personal borrowing costs always high, gold falling in price, silver falling in price...even oil possibly PEAKING in price...the only solution is a gas guzzler in every garage?...not even that's going to work. We've all fought this battle three years on. I'm done. "They" win. "Long hate fuelled rhetoric"...which should make our "re-engagement in the Middle East" all the more interesting. Good health fellow ZH'ers...i am long "us" of course as well. (ABC media copyright all rights 2013?)

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:36 | 3112732 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I have my pay stub available for my first 2013 check. I get paid bi-weekly, and just the 2% increase for the Social Security deduction cost me $52.00. Pisses me off because I doubt I'll ever see a dime of it returned to me when, or IF, I can ever retire. I'd rather have that money to save myself. So the total cost to me per month will be $104.00, so far. If any of the other taxes increase, I'll probably cancel my health care coverage to make up for the loss. Health care to me has always, in reality, been a good gun. I ever get so sick I need special care, I'm outta here. Screw the greedy bastages in the health care industry.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:38 | 3112740 lifetide
lifetide's picture

36% your going to die before 67-1/2.  If your black it's 44%


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:52 | 3112754 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Maybe. White guy here. I am 51 and in real good shape. Exercise every day, do not over eat. Have BMI of 22 (fully dressed), 6'2", weigh 164 pounds. Great blood pressure and heart rate, six pack abs, etc. I have not had a cold or the flu in so long, I forget how bad they can be. Take no medication at all, only vitamins (expensive pee). I am in much better shape for my age than I was in my 20's. So I expect to blow past 67.5, barring unforeseen circumstances.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 16:59 | 3112778 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Try 2 tablespoons of flax seeds and three of Hemp first thing in the morning. Your bowels willl thank you

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:00 | 3113066 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

How the hell do you choke that down, in a MILKSHAKE?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:43 | 3113135 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture


Ever heard of an enema? It's easier and does not taste as bad. Once a week and your bowels will thank you.

I rarely drink soda these days, just water, booze at night. ;-)  If I drink one glass of soda, I am running for the bathroom ten minutes later. Guess my bowels are cursing me. ;-(

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 23:34 | 3113785 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Liar!!!  Enemas taste HORRIBLE!!!

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:45 | 3113026 apes hit
apes hit's picture

Yes, but unfortunately it's those "unforeseen circumstances" that tend to screw up an otherwise good plan.

And now picture the U.S. government -- an entity very different from the condition you keep yourself -- a bureacratic mess that is seriously bloated, out of shape, consuming tons of non-productive junk food and (I suspect) not cognizant of how dangerous a condition this is. I think everyone here on ZH can see the cardiac arrest coming; for me, it's just a question of "when?".

And just to follow this analogy one more step --> I believe the doctors (Bernanke et al.) will continue to flood the patient with drugs (i.e., $'s) that push the day of reckoning off a few more years, but that in the end will do much more harm than good and may ultimately prove to be fatal to our 230+ year old Republic.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 18:25 | 3112972 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Cut out death at the hands of another .... and run your numbers again !

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 19:29 | 3113120 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

That is what I refered to as an "unforeseen circumstance", fyi. It's also why I pretty much do not leave home without a Kimber 1911 in .45ACP on my hip, and .32ACP NA Guardian on my left ankle. At least two knives, one with five inch blade, on me everywhere I go, including those places labeled as Gun Free Zones.

See picture below, what I got on me every day. Crazy or paranoid, take your pick.  ;-)


Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:55 | 3113298 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Ever had to use em?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 20:54 | 3113294 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

He's bullet-proof?

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 22:11 | 3113592 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Who is bullet proof?

No, never had to use them. Hope to god I never do. But it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Better to be tried by 12, than carried by six.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 22:45 | 3113690 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Just pointing out, as you did, that "death by another" is a distinctly possible "unforeseen consequence" the absence of Kevlar and whatnot.

Funny...the only other place I've heard that line is a rap tune.

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