Putting America's Tax Hike In Perspective

Tyler Durden's picture

One of those occasions when one picture really does speak a thousands words.

Houston, we may have a spending problem.

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HurricaneSeason's picture

Not only that, if they add another $2.5 trillion to the debt ceiling, like they did about 15 months ago, that's about 15% added to the national debt and the interest payment this year was about $300 billion (at ridiculously low interest), so that'd be about another $45 billion a year in interest if they raise the debt ceiling that much again.

Acet's picture

Actually the chart is like-to-like: it shows deficit - the yearly increase in debt - versus tax take increase - a yearly increase in government income.

If fact, that's the really scary bit - that tax increase will barelly dent the existing yearly increase in debt.

An even more scary one is that, if the chart showed the US public debt, it would need to be 16 times taller (or that little slice showing tax increase would need to be about 5 pixels high).

 

HurricaneSeason's picture

You're just a fear mongerer, we get rewards points for every pixel on the tall one.

tboss's picture

trillion this year.. trillion next year.. 

Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Not who, but what. The what is inflation.

Cursive's picture

@Everybodys All American

The Patriots will play a Divisional Series Playoff game in roughly two weeks from now and Ron Paul just lost his primary bid to be a presidential nominee.  That's the only high-level patriots I know.  Since anyone who opposses our current tax and spend regime is swiftly branded a racist/child hater, I and most people like myself have decided to withdraw from the public square and wait for the reset.

Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Thats yet to be seen.  When everything crashes, we'll see how well the mob does.  They'll be eating each other before its all said and done probably.

Water Is Wet's picture

Endtimes revelation #983753995303535322 on Zerohedge.

Cursive's picture

@Beam Me Up Scotty

My plan is to stay in doors, clinging to my guns and my religion, waiting for the Angel of Death to passover my house.

Next to Arch Stanton's picture

We can explain the situation patiently to those who would listen - problem is, it's not a quick conversation and people don't have the patience to listen to the facts nor do they want to let go of their version of the status quo.  A discussion about our flawed fractional reserved banking system, fiat currency, etc, would take too long for the average American's attention span.  Telling people that the economy as they understand it may change for something worse is not what people want to hear.  This is the USA.  Things always get better, regardless of personal effort.

I tried (again) explaining to family over Xmas what I think is coming in the next year +/- concerning US/global debt problem.  All counter-arguments were very predictable as they were lifted right out of the headlines or off evening news.  No facts, data.  I could see my brother, father and mother becoming more agitated, irritated when I kept providing fact-based counters to their points. That's when they start telling me that I am too obsessed with the "doom" outlook.  My mother actually tried to comfort me as she thought I was upset that no one agreed with me.  Unfuckingbelievable.  And they are actually pretty intelligent people, imo.

 

Jendrzejczyk's picture

Quit beating your head against their wall. It's only giving you a headache, and annoying them.

Ask them a few thought provoking questions, then back off and let them ponder the answers on their own.

akak's picture

Unfortunately, Jendrzejczyk, you are assuming that the sheep have both the ability AND the willingness to ponder anything at all. 
I strongly suspect that most possess neither.

Jendrzejczyk's picture

Ak, I'm assuming the ones worth saving are smart enough to take the subtle hints.

Pure Darwin from there, and your conscience is clear.

flacon's picture

Yeah it's pretty amazing when talking to some people who just can't seem to understand the most basic elementary things. 

 

I usually try different tacts:

 

1. Have them watch the youtube video MONEY AS DEBT

or

2. Ask them who has a greater net worth, that homeless man who sleeps under the bridge and owns a shopping cart of his belongings, or your neighbour who is hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt?

or

3. They just can not comprehend that money and economics is rather simple - they think it's UN-KNOW-ABLE and should be unknowable because they like the concept of having their needs taken care of by our god-men bankers ande politicians.

or

4. Just stop talking about it and realize that the world would be a better place without these parasites on it. You don't have to tell them that but just think about it in your own mind. 

 

To be honest I have had to revert to #4 most often. 

 

 

 

Next to Arch Stanton's picture

flacon - no doubt you have been awake longer than I have.  I have come a long way in the past year, but still struggle with how to discuss these issues with others.  Good advice.

flacon's picture

It doesn't get any easier with time - but I have figured out that some people just can't or won't put forth the effort to understand. It could be what the Bible talks about as the "Great Delusion" of the end times..... I don't know. 

 

PEOPLE CHANGE WHEN THE PAIN OF STAYING THE SAME IS GREATER THAN THE PAIN OF CHANGE. 

Radical Marijuana's picture

THE MAIN WAY PEOPLE CHANGE IS THAT THEY DIE.

Chupacabra-322's picture

@ Next to Arch Stanton,

Remember, they're under Psycke Warfare/PsyOp and Propagandized with Disinfo/Misinfo which is the art of Psyche Warfare by the bankster owned Intelligence Controlled Media/Military Industrial Complex/CIA.

Reach and have discussions with like minded individuals.  The art of PsyOp is very powerful.  Not knowing and denying your under are the individuals which can't and can never be reached or awakend and pose a threat. 

Clever Name's picture

+1 for the reference to the greatest movie of all time, Freddies views on Hollywood notwithstanding.

Radical Marijuana's picture

Yeah, Clever Name, the "MONEY AS DEBT" MAD movie is the one I recommend to people who know nothing.

I feature it first on my list of favourite videos about the monetary system:

http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/article.php3?id_article=445

That movie's maker, Paul Grignon, also has a series of good theoretical ideas regarding various idealized "solutions." However, although he knows perfectly well that the real money system is FRAUD BACKED BY FORCE, but nevertheless, he persists in presenting sublime solutions, which are based on presuming political miracles that the biggest gangsters, the banksters, would somehow stop being out of control criminals, able and willing to be mass murderers, in order to allow any of such sublime theoretical solutions to ever be implemented.

In general, I like the sublime theoretical solutions presented by Paul Grignon, as well as illustrative others, such as Ellen Brown and Bill Still. HOWEVER, the reality is that money is backed by murder. The best organized gangs of criiminals have already taken over the political system, and they will continue to control it in the future in the same ways that they were able to take control in the past, namely by surpassing everyone else at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence.

The most important ways in which the vast majority of people are Zombie Sheeple, that DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND, are that the only real alternatives would require them being willing and able to take over the murder systems, and actually decide upon and carry through the death controls. Since they do not want to do that, and do not want to understand why they should do that, we will continue to default to the tiny minority of Vicious Wolves running "our" governments, because they are willing and able to be as dishonest and violent and they are.

I am not aware of any videos which go beyond being versions of reactionary revolutions. There is nothing in the public space that I am aware of which takes the next logical step after facing the real facts that money is backed by murder.

Anyone who thinks it is difficult to wake up ordinary people to the first level of truth, namely that the financial system is fundamentally fraud backed by force, should try the next step of explaining WHY that exists, and therefore, the ONLY real solutions are to do that better than the current banksters are doing it!

... Welcome to the Fringe Cubed, and multiplying!!!!

EINSILVERGUY's picture

I found a similar situation.

I'm 50 and graduated 25 years ago with a Finance degree and spent 10 years in Banking and Brokerage toiling as a middle level employee trying to do the right thing while becoming more aware of the lack of ethics and morality in those industries. I left in the mid 90's and moved into the high tech world where I have worked for the last 15 years to greate success and happiness. I have always kept an eye toward the financial industry but it was only in the last 5 years that I saw the light.  It took a lot of analysis and reading/listening to alternative sources to start seeing things for what they are.  The Creature from Jekyll Island taught me more than the 4 years of college and 5 years I worked as a financial analyst.

It took me years to have reached the point where in 2008 I recognized what was happening and what will happen. I was a lifelong republican but see that politics is just swapping one set of corrupt leaders for another.  I know that Obama is evil and is intent on destroying this country but I don't see the other side demonstrating a moral counterweight (outside a select few).  

I've been taking steps to prepare for the end game. I've been preaching to friends, family and co workers for the better part of 3 years with various degrees of acceptability.  I've reconciled that I can advise and proselytize the message but I cannot make them move through the learning curve any faster than they can move themselves and in a lot of cases, some will never get "it".  It is difficultt to explain succintly how the whole system is flawed and won't end well. Its a complicated integration of politics, social order, economics and history.  Its frustrating to know that people have a chance to mitigate the impact of what is coming but can't take time away from their consumption driven lives and their insular "matrix".

All you can do is help those that understand and talk to those willing to challenge their own construct

 

AgAu_man's picture

1 AG guy, it sounds a lot like a religion they have and observe, and you are trying to change that.

And we all know what the success rate is at making religious converts?

Radical Marijuana's picture

Yes! The monetary system is our STATE RELIGION.

& Money is more a social taboo topic than sex was!

Acet's picture

I've been noticing that to a large degree the problem is that people simply don't like to hear neagative things, more so when the explanation overlwelms their intelectual abilities (funny thing, one of my side theories is that belief in a deity or pantheon provides emotional and intellectual confort to those that can't cope with or understand the complexity and uncertaity of live by giving them an easy explanation in the form of omnipotent figures of authority).

I reckon this is in part due to consumerism and the continuous conditioning of people to act on impulse, be needy and be driven by their lowest most basal desires to the point that adults have become heavilly infantilised in our societies.

 

Ghordius's picture

spot on, including the infantitization of societies (imo an unintended consequence of third wave feminism and individualism, and so more visible and progressed in AngloAmerican societies - but I digress)

but there is another aspect

when French battleships came to collect gold in 1968, Nixon kicked successfully the US can forty years in the future

it's very difficult to plan at any level when you don't see how far in the future the can lands

most of the people who could now say "told ya" are dead

Room 101's picture

A suggestion: sometimes the WHY is not so important as the WHAT YOU DO ABOUT IT. Truth without action is really just a form of intellectual masturbation.  

What you could do is identify the worst fear of the family member or friend and then gently guide them to action to mitigate the potential damage.  It's odd, but you find that the prudent planning you do to contend with anticipated disaster A, B, or C is pretty much the same thing that you do with anticipated disaster X, Y, or Z.  Or said another way, the things that you do to mitigate the feared and anticipated earthquake are much the same as what you do to mitigate an anticipated financial meltdown.  As a family member or friend, do you really care why they plan so long as they plan and execute the plan?

 

 

hawk nation's picture

I cant predict but i can prepare

I also think the reset could be a very good thing if you live in a state that is conservative and does not run a deficit. IN THIS CASE WHY CANT THERE BE ECONOMIC GROWTH WHEN THE FOOT OF THE GOVERNMENT IS OFF THE PRODUCTIVE CLASS

If you live in a major metropolitan area then it will get ugly in IMHO

Nikao7's picture

Been there done that Arch....it is a sad and frustrating situation.  Your story is spot to my own concerning my attempts to enlighten my own family...I mean spot on.  Feel you brother.

 

ugmug's picture

Recently I waited in line for 3 hours to see the Emancipation Proclamation here in DC and I asked people standing there if they believed that we are in deep trouble concerning the fiscal cliff. They all laughed and said that is was a hoax perpetrated by the republicans. All these people were in there 50's and all worked for the US government. It is worse than a horror movie watching these idiots laugh at their own financial demise.

verum quod lies's picture

Don't beat yourself up too much, as I suspect this is more common than we care to admit to ourselves. I suspect I've not been welcomed with open arms at many family gatherings for some time for spouting out truths here and there.

On a more uplifting note, I have read a few studies on learning as it relates to hindsight bias and overconfidence, which BTW are very resistant to learning (i.e., very, very resistant) and I think they can offer a piece of confirmed advice as relates to trying to get someone to face facts without dropping your pumpkin pie. There have been many techniques and tricks tried by psychologists and yet only two things have proved effective: (1) Try to get the person to look for discrepant information (i.e., try to get the person(s) to look at the issue in a different way; e.g., and as mentioned, ask them a question like: What then do you think is the right relative amount of debt and spending ...?) (2) Brutal repetitive exercises (i.e., essentially going over the problem or contradiction again and again until they get it, or have that aha moment as it were - essentially like most learning in grade school). Therefore, for family members, and as pointed out already, your best bet is asking them questions that allow them to tease out the truth and face it directly. For example: "You say that this 'fiscal cliff' merely requires a few tax increases and some moderate spending decreases (just like Barry Soetoro and the gang keep insisting), yet isn't it odd that I just read this book (and I can buy a copy for you if you want) that states that almost every country that spends as much as we do and prints as much money as we do is unable avoiding a financial crisis that turns into an economic one? Boy, could it be that the U.S. is just different and so special that it will now avoid what almost every country in its current position has never been able to avoid?  ..." Anyway, you get the idea; but even though I advise this I must tell you that I should do this smoothly, yet I still have a hell of a time not yelling fire when I see, smell, and feel a fire.

 

jumbo maverick's picture

"I have read a few studies on learning as it relates to hindsight bias and overconfidence..."

I am interested in reading about this. Any way you could steer me in this direction where I wouldn't have to spend a lot of time sifting through material on the net? Thanks.

verum quod lies's picture

Don't beat yourself up too much, as I suspect this is more common than we care to admit to ourselves. I suspect I've not been welcomed with open arms at many family gatherings for some time for spouting out truths here and there.

On a more uplifting note, I have read a few studies on learning as it relates to hindsight bias and overconfidence, which BTW are very resistant to learning (i.e., very, very resistant) and I think they can offer a piece of confirmed advice as relates to trying to get someone to face facts without dropping your pumpkin pie. There have been many techniques and tricks tried by psychologists and yet only two things have proved effective: (1) Try to get the person to look for discrepant information (i.e., try to get the person(s) to look at the issue in a different way; e.g., and as mentioned, ask them a question like: What then do you think is the right relative amount of debt and spending ...?) (2) Brutal repetitive exercises (i.e., essentially going over the problem or contradiction again and again until they get it, or have that aha moment as it were - essentially like most learning in grade school). Therefore, for family members, and as pointed out already, your best bet is asking them questions that allow them to tease out the truth and face it directly. For example: "You say that this 'fiscal cliff' merely requires a few tax increases and some moderate spending decreases (just like Barry Soetoro and the gang keep insisting), yet isn't it odd that I just read this book (and I can buy a copy for you if you want) that states that almost every country that spends as much as we do and prints as much money as we do is unable avoiding a financial crisis that turns into an economic one? Boy, could it be that the U.S. is just different and so special that it will now avoid what almost every country in its current position has never been able to avoid?  ..." Anyway, you get the idea; but even though I advise this I must tell you that I should do this smoothly, yet I still have a hell of a time not yelling fire when I see, smell, and feel a fire.

 

hound dog vigilante's picture

Imagine the relentless tide of ignorance that Ron Paul has endured over 40 years... and people complain that he isn't charismatic enough, etc.  The man is a saint.

 

PlausibleDenial's picture

I was at a party last night discussing the banksters and the economy.  Now I am labeled paranoid.  I told my girlfriend on the way home that I really don't want to go to any more parties as those folks will be knocking on my door looking for food one day.  Fuck them.

Vendetta's picture

Been dealing with the same for years, I'm tired of dealing with closed minds and avoid wasting my time with it.

Room 101's picture

IF they're people you care about, you might try to find out what disaster they really fear on the horizon and gently nudge them toward planning for that.  It doesn't matter much what the disaster is, the planning for it in my view is pretty much the same.  Water, Food, Shelter, Medicine, a means of defending it, and real assets to prosper with later.     

cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Unfuckingbelievable.  And they are actually pretty intelligent people, imo.

Another example of sheeple believing what they want to believe. 

Facts don't matter.  Facts are ignored.  Reality is ignored..  They live in a fantasy.

America is full of these sheeple.  It's why America isn't worth saving.

These millions of sheeple really need to die off, and many will in the difficulties ahead.  Don't spend energy and resources trying to help them and save them.  They're not worth saving.

Letting them go, letting them starve and die, it's tough, but it's what they deserve. 

Having enough mental toughness to stand back letting stupid blind sheeple die.  That's one of the challenges of survival.

Whoa Dammit's picture

Philosophcal question for you Cranky :

If I think you're a stupid blind sheep, and you think I'm a stupid blind sheep, who is the one living in a fantasy, and who is the one that should be let starve and die?

cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

It doesn't matter who we think is or isn't.   Our opinion isnt needed.

They'll demonstrate who they are by ignoring the warning signs and not preparing. 

This is where a slow decline would be better, giving them more time to open their eyes and see what reality is.

A fast decline, or outright collapse, is where they'll get caught for sure. 

And they'll be the first ones expecting everyone to help them.  Completely selfish, completely corrupted, not worth being helped, no value to the human race, useless eaters, leeches.

America is full of 'em,   Probably 70% of the population now, and that percentage is growing.

Back in 1776 they were 20% of the population, maybe less.

It's not just the government getting corrupted.  It's society too.  What we see happening in government is happening in society too, at about the same rate. 

It's why Obama and Reid and Pelosi and Feinstien and people like that get re-elected, put back in office by people just like them out in society.

Its not just ignorance.   It's flat out disgusting selfishness.

 

FreedomGuy's picture

Been there, too, Arch. Try talking to your parents and grandparents about the stats and all their "free" benefits. My mom told me she knows Obama is bad for the economy but there are "good things" in the Obamacare so she voted for him. She cannot name one thing but believes it is good on balance.

It takes time and reason and most people will not do it. You could sidestep this necessity with something like a Constitution which would avoid this necessity and eliminate mob rule but some men and women in black robes have said the U.S. Constitution is actually a collectivist document. So, now it necessitates reasoning with people who are promised a check now or some vague libertarian argument about the future benefits and prosperity of liberty and self determination.

toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

The patriots are still sitting on the fence. They are many in number. We have thousands of men and women in uniform who are in control of some pretty serious military hardware. Millions of veterans and armed citizens are in control of far more small arms than the military is.

 

I don't believe the military or the people are willing to march into WWIII on the orders of the Kenyan. I don't forsee a draft, full-on war, or the dreaded "Martial Law" being declared.

 

Seriously folks, martial law is not "declared" by civilian authorities who are still in charge, it is *imposed* by military authorities when civilian authorities become ineffective or collapse. When I say military authorities, I mean national, state, or local (militia). In America, the civilian government can't just unleash the military on the people. If it tried to, 90% of military people would quit, go home, and join the millions of armed partriots who would appear overnight.

John_Coltrane's picture

That's exactly what happened in when the Soviet Union collapsed.  Enough divisions joined with Yeltsin to stalemate the state forces and the regime collapsed.  If that could occur in a state like the Soviet Union one expects even more resistence to martial law in the West.  Unfortunately, collapse of the state doesn't eliminate the corruption. 

Harbanger's picture

The Soviet Union collapsed?

Ghordius's picture

it's elites felt some change was necessary, yes. the changes were of course profitable for it's elites and a couple of foreign elites, too

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Toomany, I honestly believe this may be our only hope and Obama's fascist brethren's mistake. He has not won the military. Look how Hilter use the youth (HJ) and the SA to further his power. Youth were suffering (as they are maybe in a lesser way today) and Hitler was there to offer hope against bleak futures. They were willing accomplices in his atrocities. I don't know many people in the military but the few friends I do have despise the man. I can't see them mowing down civilians. I cant recall any moment in history where a dictatorship occurred without the backing of the military. Perhaps this is the reason to keep them engaged in continual foreign wars. Idle warriors at home may not be such a good thing. Rome discovered this as well.

Miffed:-)

pvzh's picture

I down-voted you, not because I dislike your sentiment (I wish that you were right), but because I think you are purely delusional if you think that

I don't believe the military or the people are willing to march into WWIII on the orders of the Kenyan. I don't forsee a draft, full-on war, or the dreaded "Martial Law" being declared.

The military members are conditioned to follow chain of command, and as long as orders flow through chain of command the officers and soldiers will follow any order even if this order originated from drunken monkey at the top (very few will not follow, but they will be dealt with swiftly).

In America, the civilian government can't just unleash the military on the people. If it tried to, 90% of military people would quit, go home, and join the millions of armed partriots who would appear overnight.

USA already had such situation, and military had not "revolted" in any meaningful way. See "Bonus Army": military was unleashed on WWI veterans with whom then-current soldiers might have identify, but obviously that was not an issue.

Manipulation and propaganda have come along way since 1930s, so have no doubt -- current military will follow orders against civilians and what not. Besides, use of non-citizens as soldiers is on the rise, so USA is on track that Roman Republic / Empire followed, and, if you use this measure as a benchmark, USA is bound to become non-democratic overtly fairly soon. Transition to dominate (see dominate). Diocletian is either on the throne or soon to come.