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Guest Post: Mother, Should I Trust The Government?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform blog,

Mother, do you think they’ll drop the bomb?
Mother, do you think they’ll like this song?
Mother, do you think they’ll try to break my balls?
Ooh ah,
Mother, should I build the wall?

Mother, should I run for president?
Mother, should I trust the government?
Mother, will they put me in the firing line?
Ooh ah,
Is it just a waste of time?

Pink Floyd – Mother

The lyrics to Mother had both a literal and figurative meaning for Roger Waters. He was literally describing his overprotective single mother (his father was killed in World War II) building walls to protect him from the outside world. The figurative meaning is Big Mother sending its boys off to war and using fear to control and manipulate the masses. At the time he wrote this song in 1979, the Soviet Union was thought to be at its peak of power and the Berlin Wall represented a boundary between good and evil. Nuclear war was still a looming fear. Waters has always had a dim view of totalitarian states and institutions (English schools). Having seen his Wall Tour performance this past summer at Citizens Bank Park with a diverse crowd of 40,000, ranging in age from senior citizens to teenagers, it seems this song has gained new meaning. He sang a duet with himself from 1980 projected on the Wall and when he sang the lyric, “Mother, should I trust the government?” the entire stadium responded in unison – NO!!! This revealed a truth that is not permitted to be discussed by the corporate mainstream media acting as a mouthpiece for the ruling class. A growing legion of citizens in this country does not trust the government. This is very perceptive on their part.

In part one of this two part series – Hey You – I examined how an invisible government of wealthy, power hungry men have utilized the propaganda techniques of Edward Bernays and lured the American people into a narcissistic, techno-gadget, debt based servitude. Over the last one hundred years they have created a totalitarian state built upon egotism, material goods, and fulfilling our desires through Wall Street peddled debt and mass consumerism. It has been an incredibly effective form of control that has convinced the masses to love their servitude. The ruling oligarchs correctly chose the painless, amusement saturated, soft totalitarianism of Huxley’s Brave New World over the fearful, pain inflicting, surveillance state, house of horrors detailed in Orwell’s 1984.

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” Aldous Huxley – Brave New World

The nefarious establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913, launch of welfare programs in the 1930s, expansion of the entitlement state in the 1960s, creation of the credit card in 1970, mass media marketing propaganda, and the formation of an empire of debt laid the foundation for a society based on triviality, egotism, irrelevance and mass delusion. The conscious manipulation of the habits and opinions of the masses by an invisible government of powerful men using media propaganda and easy to access consumer credit has reached its mathematical limit. The oligarchs built a society dependent upon exponential growth. This unsustainable prototype began to show signs of strain in the 1990s. The powerful interests have been growing ever more desperate and blatantly obvious in their looting and pillaging of the debt bloated carcass of a country. They used their control of the political system to repeal Glass-Steagall, allowing the Wall Street banking cabal to become Too Big to Control. The oligarch puppets at the Wall Street controlled Federal Reserve did the bidding of their masters by reducing interest rates and expanding the money supply to create two epic bubbles.

The bubble was created by Wall Street utilizing hype and misinformation to fleece millions into believing we had entered a new paradigm. The only people who got rich were the Wall Street hucksters, shysters and shills.

When the bubble burst, Alan Greenspan came to the rescue, at the urging of Nobel prize winner Paul Krugman, by creating the largest banker made bubble in the history of the world. The combination of excessively low mortgage rates, complete lack of regulatory oversight by the Federal Reserve, control fraud committed by the Wall Street banks, and buying frenzy stirred up by the corporate MSM and NAR, led to the biggest financial collapse since 1929.

The white collared psychopathic criminals on Wall Street reaped billions in profits, paid themselves millions in bonuses, and cost taxpayers trillions when it all blew up in 2008. The ruling elite have added $6 trillion to our national debt and their central banker has added another $2 trillion to our ultimate tab, while providing free money to their Wall Street bank owners. They realize their efforts to restart the exponential growth engine have failed. They gutted our productive manufacturing based economic system by shipping the blue collar jobs overseas to Chinese slave labor facilities, replaced workers with machines, stimulated consumption with unlimited distribution of high interest debt, and allowed conglomerates to drive small business owners out of business with their cheap foreign sourced goods, all in the name of capitalism. The plan worked so well that real wages haven’t risen in 40 years, inflation has destroyed the purchasing power of the middle class, 47.7 million people are dependent on food stamps to survive, and the masses can’t even afford the cheap slave labor produced trinkets anymore. There is too little cash, too few jobs, too much debt, too many takers, too few makers, too many bankers, too much delusion, and too few resources to sustain the unsustainable. We have entered the end stages of a ravenous locust swarm. The fields have been stripped barren.

When the men in smoke filled rooms realized their soft totalitarianism was losing its grip on the oblivious, submissive, egoistical, distracted masses, they began phase two of their effort to retain their wealth, power and control. They began to institute Orwellian measures to strike fear into the populace. Their illusion of control is dissipating and they are resorting to force in order to maintain hegemony. It began with the immediate passage of the Orwellian Patriot Act one month after 9/11. Did the corporate media question how a 363 page all-encompassing expansion of police state power was written in a few weeks after 9/11 and passed by October 26? They did not. The bill was pre-written and ready for instant implementation when the time was right. The Orwellian version of America was launched.

“If the ideology had been a lie, then they are not heroes and gods on earth, but monsters and criminals, and their life has been self-serving and meaningless, without significance and honor. And that is the credibility trap. It is the impulse for the leaders to keep doubling down in the hope of a win, until exhaustion and collapse.” – Jesse       

Obedience to Authority

“Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.”  - Stanley Milgram – Obediance to Authority


Just as Edward Bernays knew the unruly masses could be manipulated by propaganda and molded to believe whatever the small group of intellectually superior men wanted them to believe, conditioning using fear and authoritarian methods have also been perfected by the ruling class. Doctor Stanley Milgram unwittingly provided the oligarchs with confirmation the average citizen could be ordered to do anything by invoking expertise and authority over their subjects. Milgram started his experiments in 1961, shortly after the trial of the World War II criminal Adolph Eichmann had begun. Eichmann’s defense that he was simply following orders when he exterminated millions of Jews roused Milgram’s interest. How could millions of Germans participate and condone such genocide? Milgram’s testing suggested that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs.

Writer Kendra Cherry describes the experiment:

The participants in the Milgram experiment were 40 men recruited using newspaper ads. Milgram developed an intimidating shock generator, with shock levels starting at 30 volts and increasing in 15-volt increments all the way up to 450 volts. The many switches were labeled with terms including “slight shock,” “moderate shock” and “danger: severe shock.” The final two switches were labeled simply with an ominous “XXX.”

Each participant took the role of a “teacher” who would then deliver a shock to the “student” every time an incorrect answer was produced. While the participant believed that he was delivering real shocks to the student, the student was actually a confederate in the experiment who was simply pretending to be shocked.

As the experiment progressed, the participant would hear the learner plead to be released or even complain about a heart condition. Once the 300-volt level had been reached, the learner banged on the wall and demanded to be released. Beyond this point, the learner became completely silent and refused to answer any more questions. The experimenter then instructed the participant to treat this silence as an incorrect response and deliver a further shock.

Most participants asked the experimenter whether they should continue. The experimenter issued a series of commands to prod the participant along:

    • “Please continue.”
    • “The experiment requires that you continue.”
    • “It is absolutely essential that you continue.”
    • “You have no other choice, you must go on.”

The level of shock that the participant was willing to deliver was used as the measure of obedience. How far do you think that most participants were willing to go? When Milgram posed this question to a group of Yale University students, it was predicted that no more than 3 out of 100 participants would deliver the maximum shock. In reality, 65% of the participants in Milgram’s study delivered the maximum shocks.

Of the 40 participants in the study, 26 delivered the maximum shocks while 14 stopped before reaching the highest levels. It is important to note that many of the subjects became extremely agitated, distraught and angry at the experimenter. Yet they continued to follow orders all the way to the end. Why did so many of the participants in this experiment perform a seemingly sadistic act on the instruction of an authority figure? According to Milgram, there are a number of situational factors that can explain such high levels of obedience:

    • The physical presence of an authority figure dramatically increased compliance.
    • The fact that the study was sponsored by Yale (a trusted and authoritative academic institution) led many participants to believe that the experiment must be safe.
    • The selection of teacher and learner status seemed random.
    • Participants assumed that the experimenter was a competent expert.
    • The shocks were said to be painful, not dangerous.

The American people have been participants in their very own Milgram experiment being conducted by their government since 9/11. Since the passage of the Patriot Act, the government continues to demand that its citizens increase the voltage in the name of security. Since 2001, the Orwellian measures have included:

  • Warrantless domestic surveillance.
  • The ability to search telephone calls, emails, financial matters especially involving foreign individuals, and medical records for people who are “suspected” of endangering the country.
  • Color coded risk levels designed to keep citizens fearful of non-existent terrorists.
  • Pre-emptive invasion of foreign countries.
  • Committing U.S. forces to war without a declaration of war by Congress as mandated in the U.S. Constitution.
  • Assassination of people on presidential kill lists.
  • Extermination of “suspected” enemies by predator drones.
  • Camera systems monitoring the movements of Americans in cites and streets across the United States.
  • Torture of detainees in camps outside of the United States.
  • The authority to indefinitely detain America citizens without trial.
  • Executive orders giving the President the ability to unilaterally disregard the U.S. Constitution and take control of private industries.
  • Use of drones to monitor the activities of American citizens.
  • Allowing the very bankers that destroyed the worldwide economic system to blackmail the American taxpayers into handing them $700 billion.
  • Not prosecuting one Wall Street criminal after the largest Ponzi control fraud in the history of the world.
  • Cameras and listening devices on public transit and other public locations.
  • Military exercises conducted in U.S. cities in order to condition the masses.
  • Attempts to control and censor the internet through the introduction of the SOPA bill.
  • The use of tragic mass murders by mentally defective young men on psychotropic drugs to disregard the 2nd Amendment and disarm American citizens.
  • TSA thugs molesting little old ladies and young children to desensitize citizens to gestapo like tactics and treat them like criminals.
  • Government partnering with Facebook, Apple and other corporate entities to monitor, censor, and report the activities of citizens to the authorities.
  • The use of public schools to teach children what to think rather than how to think. Thought control is vital to an agenda of keeping the masses fearful and pliable.
  • Government agencies (FBI, ATF) creating terrorist plots, luring young dupes into the plots, providing fake explosives, and then announcing with great fanfare they have foiled a terrorist plot.
  • “See something, Say something” government media campaign designed to make citizens paranoid and fearful.

Just as Milgram pondered how the German people could follow the orders of those in authority to slaughter millions, one must ponder how the American people have allowed those in power to strip us of our Constitutional freedoms and liberties in the name of safety and security. They have conditioned the masses to passively accept their fate by utilizing fear, authoritarian measures, thought control, and propaganda. Human beings never change. They have been driven by emotions throughout history – fear, greed, love and hate. There will always be psychopathic men who seek wealth, power, glory and control. It happened during the decline of the Roman Empire and it is happening today during the decline of the American Empire.

“A shocking crime was committed on the unscrupulous initiative of few individuals, with the blessing of more, and amid the passive acquiescence of all.”Tacitus

Big Brother is Watching You

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”George Orwell – 1984


What the average person can’t seem to process through their government public school educated non-critical thinking brains is that there are actually a small group of bankers, politicians, corporate executives, media magnets, and shadowy billionaires who call the shots in this country. They constitute Bernays’ invisible government, run the show, mold the minds, form the opinions, suggest the ideas, and create the reality for the masses because they believe they are intellectually superior. The left/right and Democrat/Republican discord is a planned diversion for the masses. The country has devolved into a corporate fascist warfare/welfare state. We are clearly moving in the direction of Orwell’s state in which government monitors and controls every aspect of human life to the extent that even having a disloyal thought will be against the law. The longer this is allowed to progress the more likely any effort to resist like Winston Smith will be met with brutal measures.

The parallels to Orwell dystopian nightmare state grow by the day. Those in control use technology to bombard Americans with psychological inducements designed to overwhelm the mind’s capability for autonomous thought. In Orwell’s 1984 the giant telescreen in every citizen’s room blasts a constant stream of propaganda designed to make the failures and shortcomings of the Party appear to be triumphant successes. In Obama’s 2013 the 72 inch Chinese made HDTVs in every McMansion blasts a constant stream of propaganda designed to make the zombie-like occupants buy trinkets and gadgets with a thin piece of plastic and makes the failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Libya appear to be triumphant successes. Our corporate/fascist party uses their control over the media message to indoctrinate and control the public mind through propaganda and repetitive messaging. In Orwell’s world, the Party undermines family structure by inducting children into an organization called the Junior Spies, which brainwashes and encourages them to spy on their parents and report any instance of disloyalty to the Party. In our world children are indoctrinated in government run public schools that fill their brains with government manufactured history, social engineering claptrap and what they should think, rather than how to think. The Orwellian Department of Homeland Security (Thought Police) instructs them to report anyone they think is suspicious with their “See something, Say something” campaign. Children are “encouraged” to re-educate their parents about green energy and global warming. Corporations fund schools to advertise their products within the hallways of learning. The outputs of this corporate/fascist partnership are non-critical thinking, functionally illiterate, willfully ignorant Proles who obey the Party and consume products as instructed.

In Orwell’s 1984 the Party keeps the population in a general state of exhaustion by making them work long grueling hours at government run agencies. This was designed to keep them from thinking or having the energy to resist. About one in six workers work for the government in the United States, with a substantial portion of private jobs dependent upon government largesse. The true distinction in our society can be seen in the income levels over decades of our own Inner Party, Outer Party and Proles.

income percentile

The government educated masses were purposely not taught about the impact of Federal Reserve created inflation on their lives. Even using the government manipulated CPI, the real household incomes of the masses have barely risen in the last forty five years. Using a true measure of inflation, the real household incomes of the average family have fallen. In addition, prior to the 1980s those household incomes were predominantly provided with one parent working and the other raising the children. Today the vast majority of households require both parents to work in order to just tread water. Child rearing was delegated to the state and parents have been kept in a constant state of exhaustion, like hamsters in a cage on a spinning wheel. Household income was replaced by credit card debt, mortgage debt, auto debt, and student loan debt peddled by our very own Inner Party (Wall Street bankers). The Inner Party members have seen their incomes soar over the last four decades. This was not an accident.

As those at the top accumulate an ever increasing percentage of the national wealth, while consolidating their power through ever more sophisticated use of technology for surveillance, warfare, and financial theft; urban decay and blight spreads across the land. Totalitarian regimes are ferociously effective at augmenting their own power and wretchedly incompetent at providing for their citizens. Just as the London in Orwell’s dystopian world was a decrepit, rundown city in which buildings were crumbling, amenities such as elevators never worked, and basics such as electricity and plumbing were exceedingly undependable, the urban killing fields that are home to tens of millions in the United States are dangerous, disintegrating, hallowed out carcasses of once thriving metropolises. Hunger, poverty, crumbling infrastructure, and violence are the earmarks of society for the Proles. True unemployment exceeds 20%, with youth and minority unemployment exceeding 40%. There are 47.7 million Americans subsisting on food stamps (program administered by JP Morgan), accounting for 20% of all the households in the country.

The incompetency and mismanagement by our totalitarian governing body is evident for all to see, as bridges collapse, water mains burst, gas lines explode, mass transit shuts down and structures deteriorate due to decades of neglect. The priorities of those in power are clearly visible as they spend trillions on weapons used to attack sovereign countries, distribute billions in “aid” to foreign dictators, provide trillions to the criminal banking cabal on Wall Street, and devote billions to technology designed to monitor and control their citizens. Our entire rotting, fetid, bloated, corrupt society has about reached its limits. It is only a matter of time until it implodes like the former Soviet Union.

Diminishing returns of ever-increasing complexity addressed with ever-more layers of complexity, larded with systematic lying based on mystifying, opaque jargon, sanctioned statistical misreporting, felonious cronyism, and scuttling of the rule of law. In short, the markets have been taken over in effect by a criminal racketeering syndicate. In doing this, so much resilience has been removed from these market structures that they are riddled with rot, like a mansion infested with carpenter ants.” – Jim Kunstler

We Have Always Been at War with Eastasia

Hush now baby, baby, don’t you cry.
Mamma’s gonna make all of your nightmares come true,
Mamma’s gonna put all of her fears into you,
Mamma’s gonna keep you right here, under her wing.

  She won’t let you fly, but she might let you sing,
Mamma’s gonna keep baby cozy and warm.
Oooh babe, Oooh babe, Oooh babe,
Of course Mamma’s gonna help build the wall.

Pink Floyd – Mother

The concepts of Doublethink and Newspeak are alive and well in our increasingly Orwellian society. The massive long-term campaign of large-scale psychological manipulation, described in detail by Edward Bernays in 1928, has succeeded in breaking down the capacity for independent thought by the masses. Those in control of the media have molded the minds of millions to believe anything the government tells them, even while possessing information that runs counter to what they are being told. On the eve of the invasion of Iraq, the government and their media propaganda mouthpieces had convinced 69% of the American public that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, even though there wasn’t a shred of evidence to support that claim. The storyline of Iraqi soldiers murdering Kuwaiti babies in their incubators during the first Gulf War was another example of propaganda designed to manipulate public opinion. By controlling the media message, those in power control the present and can manipulate the past. The government controls the curriculum in public schools and writes our history to conform to whatever storyline that supports their agenda. With 20% of the adult population in this country functionally illiterate, the formulation of ideas or critical thought is virtually impossible for these people. This is exactly what is desired by the ruling class.

The outrageous example of Doublethink in Orwell’s 1984 occurs during the Hate Week rally.  The Party shifts its diplomatic allegiance, so the nation it has been at war with suddenly becomes its ally (Eurasia), and its former ally becomes its new enemy (Eastasia). When the Party speaker suddenly changes the nation he refers to as an enemy in the middle of his speech, the crowd accepts his words immediately, and is ashamed to find that it has made the wrong signs for the event. The American people have been programmed to accept the same logic from our leaders. Saddam Hussein was our ally when he was fighting our enemy Iran, who had been our ally ever since we had overthrown their democratically elected leader in the 1950s. Then he became our enemy for using weapons of mass destruction, provided to him by the U.S., on his own people and threatening our control over Middle Eastern oil. Osama bin Laden was our ally when he was fighting our mortal enemy, the Soviet Union. Then he became our mortal enemy because we refused to leave Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf War. Ghadafi was our sworn enemy after blowing up an airliner filled with Americans, until he helped us after 9/11 and became an ally. Then he became an enemy again for fighting to maintain his dictatorship. Mubarak was an ally for decades as we provided him billions in military hardware so he could brutally maintain control. Then he became an enemy when we decided he was no longer of use. Do you get the picture?

Do you see any parallels between Orwell’s Ministry of Plenty (oversees economic shortages); the Ministry of Peace (wages war); the Ministry of Truth (conducts propaganda and historical revisionism); and the Ministry of Love (the center of the Party’s operations of torture and punishment) and our Department of Agriculture, Department of Defense, Department of Education, and Department of Homeland Security?  

“In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics.’ All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia. The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.”George Orwell

Should I Trust the Government?

So the oligarchs have utilized all the plays in Huxley’s playbook and are half way through Orwell’s playbook, but they are rapidly losing their credibility as a small minority of critical thinking people is using the internet to spread the truth and form phyles with like-minded citizens with similar values based on liberty and freedom. The political system is broken beyond repair as $2 billion was spent during this last “election” to maintain the status quo. The looting and pillaging of the middle class continues, while the poor are kept controlled, sedated and enslaved by entitlements, debt, drugs and prisons. The financial system is succumbing to the mountains of debt that have been accumulated trying to keep the game going. In the last ten years worldwide total credit market debt, on balance sheets, sovereign obligations, corporate debt, household debt – has grown from $80 trillion to just over $200 trillion. U.S. unfunded liabilities committed to by the politician parasites that pass for our representatives surpass $200 trillion. There are $1.2 quadrillion of interconnected derivatives outstanding in the world today, 20 times the size of the worldwide economy. The accumulation of worldwide debt, aging developed country populations, depletion of resources, perpetual war, financial fraud and rampant corruption are going to lead to a collapse of epic proportions. It may not happen in 2013, but it will happen within the next five years. Jesse explains why the status quo will never relinquish their power, illegally acquired wealth and control without a fight:

“A credibility trap is a condition wherein the financial, political and informational functions of a society have been compromised by corruption and fraud, so that the leadership cannot effectively reform, or even honestly address, the problems of that system without impairing and implicating, at least incidentally, a broad swath of the power structure, including them. The status quo tolerates the corruption and the fraud because they have profited at least indirectly from it, and would like to continue to do so. Even the impulse to reform within the power structure is susceptible to various forms of soft blackmail and coercion by the system that maintains and rewards.

And so a failed policy and its support system become self-sustaining, long after it is seen by objective observers to have failed. In its failure it is counterproductive, and an impediment to recovery in the real economy. Admitting failure is not an option for the thought leaders who receive their power from that system.  The continuity of the structural hierarchy must therefore be maintained at all costs, even to the point of becoming a painfully obvious hypocrisy.”

The people of this country must regain a sense of responsibility for their lives and the lives of future generations. Enough people need to perceive they are being manipulated, controlled and used by the thought leaders and awaken from their narcissistic materialistic debt financed lives. Our culture has failed. The animosity and anger in the country is beginning to bubble over. The masses are beginning to realize they have been screwed. They haven’t figured out who to blame because they are still trapped in the Republican/Democrat false dogma. There is one Party putting on a show, as displayed this week with the fiscal cliff farce, as the government controlled media proclaimed victory because the status quo was maintained, nothing was cut, and $4 trillion was added to the National Debt. More people need to question and challenge the authorities. We must cast aside our willful ignorance of facts and accept the consequences of decades of bad decisions and delusions of grandeur. More government is not the answer. We must break free of the conditioning and mind control used to make us love our servitude and trust those in power.

Kyle Bass recently revealed a fact about our government leaders:

“They’re not going to tell you that a collapse is coming. You’re going to have to see it for yourself. The government’s never going to tell you that it’s going to happen. These guys are never going to tell you the truth, because they can’t tell you the truth. Their job is to promote confidence, not to tell you the truth.”

We need more people to respond to Roger Waters’ question, “Mother, should I trust the government?” with this answer before we can begin to tear down the wall that seemed too high.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”George Orwell



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Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:39 | 3116812 ricky2
ricky2's picture

If there's any hope, it lies in the proles...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:45 | 3116832 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

good ol' Jim raging against the machine

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:49 | 3116850 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

MSM TV news reporters are the new #1 enemy of the American people and the people are turning them all off.

Sean Hannity lost roughly half of his audience

Two of the top conservative commentators on Fox News saw their ratings plummet after Barack Obama’s re-election victory in November. According to Nielsen, Bill O’Reilly’s numbers dropped by nearly a third, while Sean Hannity lost roughly half of his audience by the end of 2012.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:49 | 3116852 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Learn to love big sis/brother.

Resistance is futile, you will be absorbed into the collective.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3116861 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DavidPierre in 3...2...1...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:06 | 3116893 knukles
knukles's picture

Bernays astonishingly simple insight; how to best motivate the individual to fill the hole in his soul with materiality, the inequities of selfishness and tyranny over others, completing the vicious cycle of the salving of one's own ego.
More becomes better, there is never enough, for whatever it is one accumulates, it works not for it no way builds character, peace and serenity, but instead creates an addiction to false perceptions and illusions of one's own creation which nag at the conscience as fear and resentments.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:09 | 3116924 devo
devo's picture

I watched the Century of Self, too.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:32 | 3116990 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

So everyone can watch it...I assume most here have watched it though.

The Century Of The Self


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:00 | 3117085 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

never trust an entity which demand % of your money instead of flat fee for service:

  • church
  • banks
  • government
Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:36 | 3117199 nmewn
nmewn's picture is a flat voluntary 10%...always has been, always will be. And there is no demand for it.

Banks & government who steadily devalue that 10%, not so much.

Check your premises.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:42 | 3117230 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Is 8% or 12% voluntary?  Why is there a number attached to a voluntary contribution?  Why don't you check your logic? 

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:48 | 3117249 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

whatever the % is, they sure save a lot by not having to have to pay taxes on their revenue as "non-profit"


also if you want historical proof, go to europe to see what mere 10% can build.....largest cathedrals known to man!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:28 | 3117284 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

New video for you're viewing pleasure;

National Security Alert - The 9/11 Pentagon Event   P.S. There's a lot of pretty good info in this ZH article. You should go back and read it if you have not done so already.
Fri, 01/04/2013 - 03:47 | 3121292 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Obama makes Hitler seem like a nice guy.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:05 | 3117288 Likstane
Likstane's picture

How do you know I don't live by one of those monstrous cathedrals?  Check the Crystal cathedral in SC.  My argument is not that cathedrals are built, but that Mnemn makes the case that somehow 10% extracted by some sort of rule is somehow an exception to your comment.  What church is he talking about?  If he wants to base his percentage on OT Hebrew contributions to the temple/Levitcal order, then he should use a more appropriate percentage of approx 35 percent.  No where in the NT(supposed guidebook for Christians) is a tithe(10%) mentioned.  If he is going to tell people to check their premises, maybe he should check his also.   BTW I gave your original comment a greenie


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:38 | 3117377 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"My argument is not that cathedrals are built, but that Mnemn makes the case that somehow 10% extracted by some sort of rule is somehow an exception to your comment. What church is he talking about?"

What part of voluntary ARE you having a direct problem with...exactly...when comparing government & banks to a church/religion? Is the church governed by one law or man's ever changing, like the wind, malleable laws with interest? 

Tithe means 10%...old english, you know this already, you said it. And in case you haven't noticed...I'm an Old Testament kind of guy.

I'm not some fairy dancing on the head of a philosophical pin, I call it like I see it...there is no comparison between government/banks with the church, in the age of EBT transference.

Two very different things, check YOUR premises.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:50 | 3117406 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I'll stay wiyh Huxleys statement.  Never trust any organization that extracts 10%.  By your admission, the OT church was required to give 10% at a minimum.  If you add up the rest of the festival offerings, temple taxes, freewill offerings, it comes out to at least 30%.  If you are such an OT guy adhering to OT rules, you are not a voluntary giver, but an adherant of the Law.  Those who live by the Law will die by the Law. 

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:05 | 3117439 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You can say with whatever you like, its still (barely) a free country (if you're even in this country) and government & banks extracts a helluva lot more than 10%.

I have zero idea what you're talking about...what the hell is a temple tax and festival offerings?...never paid them...never was asked or forced to pay them.

If you're sittin around thinkin I'm a Wiccan or some other damned New Age crystal worshipping moron you're sadly mistaken.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 02:09 | 3117849 Likstane
Likstane's picture

You are a government worshipping moron because you still believe the official government explanation for 9-11.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:31 | 3118028 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


There is enough evidence to indict the government for passing unconstiturional laws in violation os their oaths that 9-11 does not even need to be part of the discussion. It is a loosing topic. Like religion it will not be resolved nor will a majority agree. We must not let these issues divide us now. If 9-11 was an inside job we need to regain control of our systems to do anything about it. For now it must sit. Some may wish to pursue 9-11 and expose errors in the official story but if you sees these errors why would you disparage another who has other interests, perhaps the economy, perhaps gun rights or other injustices? We need addition in our efforts. We must not smear others just because they have not come around to our vision yet. People arrive at the truth by different paths. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 07:58 | 3118088 nmewn
nmewn's picture

ROTFL!!! you're just clutching at straws.

But we've finally gotten to the bottom of your displeasure with my comments, haven't we Likstane? in argument over the very simple concepts of voluntary vs mandatory, tithing vs taxation, truths vs fictions, religion vs government.

I suppose next you'll be promoting the idea that Catholics (or whoever) have armed guards at the church door, checking religious passports, forcing people to empty their pockets before entry? ;-)


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:40 | 3117378 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

@aldoushuxley 20:48

built to last over 1000 years

they got a lot of bang for their buck back then

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:07 | 3117299 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

As ye believe, so is it done unto you.  If you think you can afford to give 10% or you do NOT think you can afford it, you're right in either case.  He who has eyes, let him read! (and hopefully, understand...)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 00:23 | 3117669 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

I'd have to add atty's to that list.

If money is the root of all evil, why are churches always begging for it?

Another observation:  The TSA makes everyone of us  take off our shoes because one guy tried and failed to set off a bomb in his shoe.  Then you finally get on the plane and over the pa you are told to turn off your computers, cell phones etc. because they could bring down the plane and This is completely on the honor system.  Things that make you go Hmmmm?????

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:19 | 3117991 Seer
Seer's picture

"always will be."

So, if you absolutely know the future then maybe you can tell us how this all turns out?

No gods, no masters...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 04:31 | 3117967 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

" never trust an entity which demand % of your money instead of flat fee for service"

Never trust anyone who considers raping you a 'service'

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 10:47 | 3118492 northerngirl
northerngirl's picture

The Church I attend does not demand a % of my income.  They do not even suggest % to donate.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:39 | 3117001 lewy14
lewy14's picture

I disagree, knukles. Not sure that "materiality" has much to do with it.

What people do - they understand the world by perceiving the chaotic stream of events and actions in their life as "narrative". This is how human beings understand anything - they make a story of it.

The center of the story is the individual, and the story is about how awesome and virtuous that individual is.

Sometimes it's because the individual is awesome because his own rugged self (libertarian/capitalist). Or about how the individual belongs to the virtuous worker class (marxist/socialist). Or about how the individual belongs to the superior race or nation (various).

All of these stories contain the "other", whom it is OK to expropriate, and who the individual is superior to.

Quinn has his narrative that he sells. Yves Smith has hers at Naked Capitalism. Infowars have theirs. Lot's of commonality but lots of mutual excommunication as well. Then there's the slightly more mainstream alternative media (Brietbart/PJMedia/Kos/TPM/HuffPo).

No movements. All buseness models, peddling narrative.*

This analysis applies equally to those who believe they chose to take the red pill or the blue pill. It applies equally to those who took vows of poverty, or those who took vows to serve Mammon.

*(I make exception for ZeroHedge, because it admits many different narratives, and holds them in unobserved, uncollapsed superposition. This is pretty unique and perhaps the only escape from the conundrum: you have to understand the world through narrative, but it is impossible not to be misled by narrative.)

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:15 | 3117134 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Ah, an actual educated person. Bravo. I would up tick you several times; but i'm sure we both live in narratives where that is meaningless.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:19 | 3117152 centerline
centerline's picture

There are more motivations than awesomeness.  And materialism feeds many of them - not unlike any other addiction in many cases.  Just saying.  +1 from me for furthering the conversation into a really interesting place.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:29 | 3117997 Seer
Seer's picture


"All of these stories contain the "other", whom it is OK to expropriate, and who the individual is superior to."

At the fundamental level of deception for survival one HAS to make the assertion of superiority in order to justify one's survival.  As you note, the stories are everywhere, and they're institutionalized in governments and churches (in their doctrines).

But, really, THE problem IS about illegals/bankers/politicians/gays/Muslims, not about securing resources! </sarc>

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:37 | 3117006 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Should I clap now or continue enjoying the spectacle of the show? Or are we somehow disconnected from feeding the circus?

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:56 | 3117075 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yeah, DoChenRollingBearing, although we have learned to expect DavidPierre to repeat his criticisms, I find that this overall article by Jim Quinn to be so excellent that it would be hard to be critical of it in any of the similar ways that I too have indugled in, when provoked by some of Quinn's previous articles.

One of the astonishing side-effects of things getting blatantly so bad is that even a somewhat more mainstream view is forced to come to similar conclusions as the more radical would. Indeed, the audience for the wilder ideas is growing so fast that the wildest proponents of those ideas from previous decades are starting to sound almost mainstream.

Welcome to the revolving Bizarro Mirror World! Not only is everything proportionately backwards and distorted, but also the different people are exchanging places faster! Ironically, if we get to the point where the runaway insanities finally do cause collapse into chaos, then the most radical ideas from the past may suddenly find themselves being catapaulted into the mainstream rush of events ...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:59 | 3117083 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Rad M, maybe I should have been less flip, as I too like Quinn.  As bearish as Jim Willie CB.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:06 | 3117104 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Not to mention that Quinn beat the living crap out of DavidPierre in the comments section of his last post.  Nicely done, Jim!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:04 | 3117436 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, when do the Lizard people strip off their masks?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:45 | 3118001 Seer
Seer's picture

Be more proactive!  Start eating people; when you taste lizard you KNOW you've hit one!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:42 | 3118000 Seer
Seer's picture

"if we get to the point where the runaway insanities finally do cause collapse into chaos"

Given that the system is totally unsustainable (perpetual growth on a finite planet) I'd think that the use of the words "runaway" and "insanities" are unnecessary.

I could also debate as to whether the current state of things doesn't more closely resemble "chaos" than any future, post state will/would.

And about the word "mainstream"... I think that it is ONLY really a word tool for control.

Anyway, green arrow...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:37 | 3117205 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

But… But… But !!!

Mother, should anyone trust the SmokeyQUINN?

9/11 Is the Litmus Test

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:39 | 3117215 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're late ;-)

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:15 | 3117322 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Better late than never!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:18 | 3117331's picture



9/11 Is the Litmus Test


Those who doubt the role of Bigfoot and his magic UFO in 9/11 are undeniably in the pay of Mossad.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 01:14 | 3117667 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Dear Crockett:

9/11 Is the Litmus Test regarding common sense and physics about believing that steel frame buildings could just suddenly collapse, WITHOUT controlled demolition being the explanation.

I watched the archival videos about how the World Trade Center Building were constructed.


There is nothing like UFOs nor Bigfoot with respect to understanding STEEL FRAME BUILDINGS!

I watched the videos about how those buildings just suddenly collapsed. There is NO sane explanation other than controlled demolition.

Exactly HOW we may never know for sure, since the evidence was summarily destroyed. No proper crime scene investigations were ever conducted, and now that can not be done. Therefore, I am not sure about exactly how it was done. However, the idea that a steel frame building can collapse due to ordinary fires makes as much common sense as that your iron grill melts when you are cooking. I.e., absolutely NONE. To believe the official story about 9/11 one has to believe things which completely contradict the laws of physics, and the properties of material like steel.

Once one faces the fact that 9/11 MUST have had controlled demolitions, then one MUST face the fact that it was an inside job, which means it was a false flag attack ... One could then spend hundreds of hours watching dozens of videos to put the pieces of the puzzle together in plausible ways regarding the FACT that 9/11 was a inside job. I have done that: 9/11

9/11 is a litmus test with respect to people's opinions regarding everything else, because, it becomes blatantly obvious that 9/11 MUST have been an inside job, IF one is willing to look at the evidence regarding the construction, and the demolition of those buildings. Reasonable debate can be engaged in with respect to the details. However, there is no reasonable doubt that 9/11 was a false flag attack, and the FACT that those who did that could get away with doing that is a FACT that is many orders of magnitude MORE terrifying than believing 19 Muslim "terrorists" did 9/11, because it becomes probable, if not obvious, that the whole world is controlled by huge lies, backed up with lots of violence, and that 9/11 deliberately started wars, in order to prepare for world war, and that 9/11 symbolized the deliberate destruction of the American economy, by people who have the power to carry that through!

Anyone who still believes the official story about 9/11 is either some kind of political idiot, or working for those who actually were behind making 9/11 happen. (I can understand people who do not believe the lies, but have personal, practical reasons to NOT publicly state their view of the truth. However, that is just another aspect of the litmus test.)

David Pierre appears to be upset with Jim Quinn because Quinn refuses to admit that 9/11 must have been an inside job. ... I am kind of beyond that, since I have become nearly 100% objectively depressed that there is no reasonable doubt that there WILL be genocidal wars, along with democidal martial law, and I already presume that I will likely be murdered when that happens ... Furthermore, I believe there is nothing that I could do to prevent nor prepare for that happening.

I believe that the world is controlled by the people who were the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence. I believe they are going for broke to consolidate their system as a world government. I believe they are able and willing to start more wars, and impose martial law, and that they WILL do that! My understanding of who they probably are, and how and why they evolved to be who they are, and therefore, what kinds of psychology and social habits they have, has been gradually developing for quite a while.

From my point of view Quinn's article above was at least 90% correct. I would quibble about how he explains the war against Libya. Quinn says "Ghadafi was our sworn enemy after blowing up an airliner filled with Americans, until he helped us after 9/11 and became an ally. Then he became an enemy again for fighting to maintain his dictatorship."

In my opinion, the best explanations for all those kinds of events revolve around the international banksters' power to make money out of nothing as debts. They plan on consolidating a global hegemony that can do that. The work by historian Carroll Quigley is some of the best to understand that. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE REAL WORLD THAN WHAT THE POWER TO MAKE "MONEY" OUT OF NOTHING REPRESENTS!

The ability to covertly take control of governments, in order to privatize and legalize counterfeiting their currency, and have governments enforce that fraud, is the supreme form of "wealth." That constitutes a combined money/murder system. In order to understand 9/11, one has to understand how mass murder makes some people become more powerful, and more able to engage in more mass murders, while becoming even more wealthy and powerful from doing that! The real world system is a runaway fascist plutocracy juggernaut, and that system staged 9/11 to advance its interests. That system is the dominant system, which has been developing for thousands of years, and which has been picking up speed at an exponential rate!

Furthermore, I assert that when one understands WHY the real world is a system of organized lies, operating organized robberies, one then understands why that MUST be the case. Therefore, one's "solutions" to social and political problems become far more radical than the superficial "9/11 Truth." My assertions are that we should evolve better murder systems, in order to enable better money systems. I do not believe it is possible to stop the runaway fascist plutocracy system. There is no way to compete with the group of trillionaire mass murders that control the world today. In my opinion the people who actually did 9/11 already have a de facto sovereign immunity. However, I believe that it MAY be possible to push them past where they would have otherwise have stopped.

I tend to believe we need the emergence of a better ruling elite than what we have now. I tend to believe that we should democratize the death controls, in order to democratize the debt controls. I am interested in a series of scientific revolutions. My view of the depth of the litmus test aspect regarding 9/11 opinions goes far beyond what most of the current 9/11 Truth groups do, since they are almost totally what I call "reactionary revolutionaries" who still want the return to impossible ideals, as the way to solve the problems created by a runaway gang of criminals controlling the world, to the degree that those criminals have become a "breakaway civilization."

I now accept the FACT that there is necessarily a combined money/murder system, and that the money is backed by murder. My views are that we should radically transform how that is done, through deeper paradigm shifts with respect to both militarism and the monetary system. ... However, to return to basics, I believe that nobody who still believes the official story about 9/11 can possibly understand the reality of what is happening in the global financial system. Although I found this article by Quinn to be at least 90% correct, I felt is was still way too superficial regarding how bad that reality IS!!!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 02:40 | 3117838 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

My sustained applause echoes off the mountains and across Shuswap Lake.

Quinn is still way too superficial regarding how bad that reality IS.

TY RM !!!

SmokeyQuinn is now my useful idiot after 4 years of confronting him online.

43 years ago I left the Nazi State of the USSA.

Quinn gives me an excuse to vent my old spleen.

I use him for my mirth, yea, for my laughter.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 02:45 | 3117880's picture

Quinn likely employs you as a physic.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 02:17 | 3117857's picture



There is nothing like UFOs nor Bigfoot with respect to understanding STEEL FRAME BUILDINGS!


That's what I would expect a Truth denier to say.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:17 | 3117990 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

James Corbett interview with geophysicist and expert in seismic analysis, Andre Rousseau.. His conclusion after studying the seismic record is that 9-11 was caused by explosives. The buildings could not have been brought down by the aircraft:

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:25 | 3117986 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I hope you, and others who have come to similiar conclusions, are empowered by them. When there is nothing to lose we should be emboldened.  As that ass Keynes said "In the long run . . . we are all dead."

There is a race between memes. Will enough look at (and choose to recognize) the way the world is . . . before we are led into a new global totalitarian feudal Dark Age ?

When reading here on ZH - I think . . . 'maybe'

When talking to people daily in my own circle of acquaintances/family/friends (who usually try to avoid thinking about this reality at all) - I think . . . . 'we are in deep trouble'

Oh well, - the only 'games' worth playing -- are those for meaningful stakes.

I am angry & saddened for the youngsters - whose parents and grandparents and great-grandparents never took the actions needed to prevent the chilldren from having to survive in such a world. They should be given a chance.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 05:55 | 3118007 Seer
Seer's picture

"I am angry & saddened for the youngsters - whose parents and grandparents and great-grandparents never took the actions needed to prevent the chilldren from having to survive in such a world."

Always look to apply your energies in meaningful ways.  One can only do what one can do.  If you see it then do something about it, even if it may seem small- it's about walking the talk.

If parents and grandparents weren't sufficiently aware (to the point of being self-compelled) then one cannot really lash out at them.  One could argue that their programming has been more "successful" (we, on the other hand, are the real "rejects").  Anyways, it's spilled milk; nows the time to DO.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:43 | 3117389 robobbob
robobbob's picture

bldg 7. there is not enough ink, paper, plastic, or lies that can cover up the truth contained in those frames.

for any still desparately clinging to the lie, because the truth would just be too unbearable. if not for the internet, that would have included me too......


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 03:19 | 3117877's picture

Look at the Zapruder Film. Kennedy was not shot from behind. But that doesn't tell us who shot him or the location from which the shot came or the motive for the killing.

Those who use 9/11 as a "litmus test" are not satisfied with those of us who say, "Yes, that is as suspicious as it gets and the official story is obviously false." But just as the Zapruder film does not prove that Woody Harrelson's Dad shot JFK from the Grassy Knoll by orders of LBJ, the 9/11 inconsistencies and evasions do not point clearly and directly to any particular party. That is why I mention Bigfoot. It's no more absurd to insist that Bigfoot did it than it is to insist, as some do, that Cheney was in control. For all we know Cheney was shitting bricks like everyone else. There is not enough real evidence about 9/11 currently available (due to destruction and lack of investigation) for anyone to be able to use his own pet theory as a "litmus test" for the character or intelligence of others.

That's why it would have been nice if Ron Paul had won the White House so there could be a full investigation of things like Operation Northern Vigilance or the destruction of the air traffic control tapes. But of course Ron Paul is one of the people who doesn't pass the "litmus test" because he wants to see an investigation which produces real evidence before he lays the blame at anyone's feet.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 03:33 | 3117919 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Please stop making yourself out as a tool.

Mineta and the secret orders of Cheney

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 03:44 | 3117932 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I doubt that there will ever be a proper investigation after so many years have passed.

I think that one of the most important components of the public evidence is who had the power to make sure that the evidence at the crime scene was summarily destroyed, which was plainly illegal. 9/11 was the biggest mass murder ever, and yet, the clean up crews get sent in first, (in extremely unsafe ways) to clean up before there was a proper forensic investigation, as numerous laws and standard practices required should have been done. AFTER seeing the physical impossibility of steel frame buildings collapsing from ordinary fires, the NEXT most important line of thought is to follow who had the power to make sure that no proper investigations ever happened. NEXT, examine how the mass media jumped on the prepared story, to popularize that immediately.

Although I do not think we can ever know for sure, I think that there is plenty of evidence, uncovered by an army of independent researchers, to indicate very probable culprits, who must have been involved. It is clear who should have investigated properly, and who made sure that never happened.

However, in the end, that does not matter much. The real world continues being controlled by the people who are the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence. That is already out of control, and going to result in genocidal wars, along with democidal martial law. 9/11 was merely one more, albeit the biggest and most symbolically significant false flag attack, so far ... There will be more, and they will probably be much worse!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 12:15 | 3118809's picture


However, in the end, that does not matter much. The real world continues being controlled by the people who are the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence


I agree wholeheartedly. Individual "litmus tests" are divisive. All that matters is that one recognizes one's own individual sovereignty and that of others. Those who apply that principle will bear good fruit.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:03 | 3118011 Seer
Seer's picture

Simply understanding reality -PHYSICS- is all that's necessary.  That's the litmus test!

That YOU don't accept the given alternate "plots" ISN'T the point.

None of this will ever see the light of day because POWER was responsible.  Fine I say, but people STILL need to understand physics because PHYSICS is REAL, and if there's something we need more of it's people who understand the real physical world (because that's the world we'll find ourselves increasingly more a part of [less of this virtual shit]).

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 12:17 | 3118823's picture

DavidPierre has a "litmus test" which includes more than physics. He knows Cheney did it and those who find his evidence less than compelling are bad people.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 08:22 | 3118115 Seer
Seer's picture

I prefer to approach things as a matter of content- what's the accuracy of the message (the messenger, for the most part, isn't of consequence, unless, that is, the messenger is armed...).

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:04 | 3117435 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Do chen,  You read my mind.  Awhile back, I inquired as to why this david pierre person seems to have a vendetta against jim quinn.  Would you be so kind as to fill me in?  I don't know why, I just need to know.  My own observation is that DP is a person who stopped taking his medication.   I do notice that he doesn't get much feedback, but nevertheless,  my 2 years and 2 months of subscribership on ZH hasn't revealed any clues.  Did he used to work for him?  Were they friends?  Or,  did david finally come out and reveal his true feelings for jim to which jim was forced to file a restraining order, of which david is in current violation. 

 Not that there is anything wrong with that, except, in this situation...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:14 | 3117461 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I don't have the details of the Jim Quinn v. DavidPierre feud, although there was a LOT of vitriolic back & forth between them after Quinn's last article posted here at ZH.  I am sure that others here can comment better than I can.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 02:26 | 3117860 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The details are archived on ZH.

Scroll up and down from this comment if you want to know the history of SmokeyQuinn and I.


From Quinn 3 years ago off his blog...


Administrator says:

It is good that you were able to take time out from the truther sheep fuck convention to develop a sitcom. I hear JFK is on today. You can sit in front of your TV and jerk off to it. Do you have any ideas about detective dads that bring up morons? By the number of thumbs up you received, it appears that the 9/11 truther retards are still onboard. I guess no other sites will have you mongoloids.

The truthers swarmed the site with their bullshit immediately. Anyone who has been on my site for the last two years realizes that if you don’t have facts to back up your argument, I will obliterate you.

I had the facts when Jason Rines pulled the plug on my old site.

I really don’t care who I offend.

Anyone who has been offended can hit the fucking road.

Then all of the truthers I’ve offended today can quit my site. They can discuss gravity, explosives, jet fuel, video clips of the Pentagon, and how to properly fuck a sheep*."

Since you say you were a firefighter, that makes you an intelligent person.

You should really have special insight into the 9/11 towers. You are a bonafide sleuth.

You really have that mystery solved.

Nobody can pull anything over on you. You are too smart to fall for any tricks.

You are a mystery solver. A man with keen analytical skills. —-A fucking inbred, maggot-infested douchebag. You and all of the rest of the duped Truthers eat dog shit."


That's just one of the more intelligent responses from SmokeyQuinn.

*Quinn's favorite retort

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:17 | 3116948 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture



Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:28 | 3116986 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Wrong, ratings are the same, it's the IQ's that dropped!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:50 | 3117054 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture


Congress Sells America Down the River to Avoid the Fiscal Cliff

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:00 | 3117091 centerline
centerline's picture


Haven't seen anything except "teleprompter readers" and "actors" round these parts in a real long time.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:16 | 3117133 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

What's with many reporters changing their eyeware to big shiny rimed glasses? They look like a bunch of clowns reading a teleprompter. And that Wolf Blitzer staring into the camera thinks he's the chief brainwasher?

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:25 | 3117176 centerline
centerline's picture

I guess the big glasses thing made some sort of "makes me look smarter" fashion list somewhere that was fabricated purely to sell the average person big glasses with designer logos that are made from nasty chemicals by unwashed, starving children in China - with itentional flaws that cause unrepairable failure to occur once the warranty is up - which likely coincides with the half-life of the fashion trend.  Probably uncomfortable too.  lol.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:41 | 3117222 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Sounds like a plausible explanation centerline. I noticed all the news channels changed the look just after BO won the election for some reason. It's that clown look that gets to me.

In other news;

Breaking: Batman Movie Map Closes School in Virginia

Local video TV news report in link.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:10 | 3117452 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, let me see if I comprehend this:

When I start to believe in a far out conspiracy theory, that means I'm borderline crazy -- but when the authorities beleive one, they're just taking precautions -- I call "Cognitive Disonance!"

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:42 | 3117553 knukles
knukles's picture

If you believe it, you're fucknut crazy and should be locked up.
If they believe it then you're suspect and should be locked up.
If they believe it and you believe it then you'll be recruited to be an informant to ratbastard out other people so they get locked up.
If you work for or with them and then try to blow the whistle on the conspiracy theory, you wind up floating face down in your Jacuzzi in Texas to be reported dead in Maine or thought to have committed suicide with your hands cuffed behind your back and 3 rounds in the top of your skull.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 01:02 | 3117747 Element
Element's picture





Well, except vast 1984-esque ones like this:


But other than that - NONE WHATSOEVER!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:11 | 3117313 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Hannity,Rove, and Dick Morris got crushed in the election, but trust me they made tons of money...hope none of it was yours.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:42 | 3117388 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1 million

Turn off ALL TV and Hollywood.  They want to disarm you. Fox AlWaleed is funded by Saudi Arabia and they are not the only network.  Disney, al Waleed is the second largest shareholder in Disney too.   Endless tens of billion in deals with GE/Comcast/NBC/CNBC/MSNBC and the Saudis.  Ditto Time Warner/CNN and even VHI/CBS/Viacom.   The Saudis are also secret buddies with Israel so this is your TV and Hollywood.

Limbaugh is a another joke now.  He refuses to mention that Obama stole the swing states. The GOP knows it because Rove/Romney did the same thing to Santorum in MI, FL, WI, OH, and another state.  Santorum had Romney beaten.  Libaugh talks about the NFL like a dope after they treated him like a bitch in denying him the ability to buy into a team.  Limbaugh also talks endlessly about Apple's iShit.

O'Reilly is a loud mouth total fraud populist Long Island irish-catholic fu***ard like Rosie O'Donnell.   I bet his whole klan voted and loved the Kennedys.

Turn off TV and Hollywood.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:09 | 3117451 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Good thing they never acknowledge the role the Ron Paul supporters played in Romney's defeat. I intend to have it that way. Gives us the upper hand.

Alex Jones Caller Ron Paul Revenge Voters For Obama 11/09/2012


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 04:03 | 3117950 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

So fucking What? That leaves me me mum me dad and me gran!
On a.n. other note:-
Jonnyboy Corzine you have been found guilty of the most henious of crimes " getting caught " fingering a few dumb fucks. You shall be taken away from this place and serve the next 18 months as deputy bag holder under Eric holdemup Holder! May God have mercy on your soul.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:49 | 3116853 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Trust the government?  F**k no!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:13 | 3116905 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

Correct answer, but I think what Jimmy is trying to figure is how to get the ObamaPhone lady and her friends such that they have a similar response.



Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:24 | 3117174 pods
pods's picture

I think that we can file that one under the same category of me wanting to teach my dog french.


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:40 | 3117223 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

damn poodles

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:45 | 3117392 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

It's unlikely that any of the obamaphone voters could completely read an entire Quinn post.  We'll work on comprehension next semester.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:25 | 3116978 FreeSlave
FreeSlave's picture

Here is the link to the actual concert... Mother, should I trust the government?!  NOOOOO!!!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:12 | 3117316 InvalidID
InvalidID's picture


 The proles.... Hehe, it would be there was more hope if this was broken down into 5-6 parts so the 'proles could absorb it.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:16 | 3117472 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

These people are Criminals and treasonist. They're protecting a global criminal economic bankster enterprise system that controls the world's Governments and politcians. It's a criminal cabal based on shadow CIA/Mossad/MI6 etc.. intelligence, murder, espionage, blackmail, rackertering, bribery, threats, drug trade, human trafficing. It's a Global Criminal Cabal based on Evil Lucerferian belief system.

The rest is just political therater the consumption by the masses.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:43 | 3117558 Zoltan
Zoltan's picture

Agree Chup. (from a brother)

I saw Roger Waters a few years ago (not the wall tour though) and he did that song but there was no audible "no" from the crowd.  Glad to see the Pleebs are waking up.

Listened to the Youtube video posted earlier.  Warmed my cold mutant heart.



Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:18 | 3118017 Seer
Seer's picture

Well, when it's all built on an improbable premise of "perpetual growth on a finite planet" it should ONLY go to reason that this shit transpires.  I do NOT believe that it is rational to think that proper behavior would be expected as the outcome of something that is based on a non-rational premise.

As the struggle for resources heightens the disconnect between our "reality" and (th real) reality will only appear to widen.  NOTE: I say "appear" because it was always there; the only difference is that it'll be harder to pretend that this disconnect exists.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:17 | 3117478 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

There is no hope.

This is a global Ponzi scheme designed for the elites to vacuum up all the wealth.

It's not going to work.

There will be war.

Lots of innocent kids will end up getting their nuts shot off.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:24 | 3118022 Seer
Seer's picture

Hope?  Why do people feel it necessary to place such energy in "hope?"

I've felt MUCH better since I've given up hope... I now know that energies are better spent at DOING.

Derrick Jenson and an audience he was talking to came up with this definition of hope:

"Hope is a longing for a future condition over which you have no agency."

Beyond Hope by Derrick Jensen

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:40 | 3116813 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

We should have an Armed Civil Insurrection against the Federal Government.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:52 | 3116867 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Michael, You might as well just check yourself in to the Camp right now, you and your +1s... Lol!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:07 | 3116917 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

As soon as they make the announcement they're opening the camp doors to heavily armed Americans. I say lets get in on today and let the battle begin.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:14 | 3116922 knukles
knukles's picture

Seriously.  Betcha Uncle Santa is counting who's being naughty,  nice and treasonous.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:25 | 3116979 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Even the acknowledgment of the true purpose and existence of those camps constitutes treason against the American people.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:31 | 3116987 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Isn't it great to live in a country where a citizens free speech & seditious comments have been outlawed?

Forward Comrade!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:38 | 3117009 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The acts of treason against the American people, especially NSA storage of all our personal communication in government databases, are validation for Civil Insurrection.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:44 | 3117023 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's probably why the Utah Data Center (coming on-line soon) is so heavily fortified.  They must know that we (those of us aware of it) are NOT happy about it.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:00 | 3117088 knukles
knukles's picture

"those of us aware of it" include a cover story in Wired as well as dozens of similar publications both print and electronic.
It's not by any means, a mystery.

Then again, the preponderance of folks don't pay any attention and if mentioned thereto, figure it's for the Good of Freedom and all that horseshit.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:28 | 3117180 centerline
centerline's picture

Like my wife says... "I'm a good person and have nothing to hide."  Then goes on about more protection from all the criminals and terrorists is a good thing and worth the price of certain freedoms.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:48 | 3117246 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Certain freedoms like, free to not be killed by an anonymous drone strike by your own government for undisclosed 'classified' reasons; or free to protect oneself from raving madmen while out with the kiddies at the local park, and other irrelevant stuff like that......

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:14 | 3117464 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

SO, she should therefore have no problem taking off her clothes and parading around nekkid -- should save you a fuckton in wardrobe funds! :>D

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 01:48 | 3117501 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

I have everything to hide from the people whom I personally do not authorize to see my shit. I do not authorize my government to store even my writings hear on Zero Hedge. Yes the general public can store my writings on their hard drives, but NOT my government employees on government databases with my tax payer dollars that are going to pay for the government data storage. Get it strait fuckheads. Do you see the difference?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 08:32 | 3118129 Seer
Seer's picture

There's also the corporations that provide backdoors...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:02 | 3117061 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You'll be needing more than speech to protect your free speech.

But of course, Wayne LaPierre was pilloried in the public square for suggesting just such a thing as this...

"Armed officers from the Monroe Police Department will be on hand when the pupils arrive on Thursday morning around 9 a.m. at their new school, about 7 miles south of Sandy Hook, which remains an active crime scene and is closed to anyone but police.


The new Sandy Hook school has also been equipped with a new security system, although officials declined to offer details.


"I think right now we have to make this the safest school in America," Monroe Police Lieutenant Keith White said.


A comparable system will also be installed in each of Newtown's other schools shortly, Robinson said in an email to district parents.


"As we enter 2013, we begin the year knowing that we are forever changed," Robinson wrote. "We have an altered sense of security and will continue to grieve for the senseless loss of such precious little ones and their teachers, but we will join together in a new appreciation of what we have and will make something positive emerge from this."


Apparently the "progressive" idea of softening targets for psychopaths hasn't worked out so well. ;-) 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 08:31 | 3118124 Seer
Seer's picture

"But of course, Wayne LaPierre was pilloried in the public square for suggesting just such a thing as this..."

I lashed out at this as well.  I don't care who says it- it's fucking WRONG!  But, for the head of the NRA?  Yeah, as someone who respects my 2nd Amendment rights I should sign up with the NRA so that I can support them and their police state agenda?

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:52 | 3117063 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Why do you think they named it the World Wide "WEB"?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 00:09 | 3117627 erg
erg's picture

Or the "NET".

Someone needs to create a search engine called "Charlotte's Web".

Wasn't it a DARPA creation after all?

I got to get me one of those invisibility cloaks. I don't know what in the hell I'd do with it. Something.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 01:28 | 3117784 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

There is NO sane way to fight a revolution after the development of atomic bombs.

We are stuck inside something way too insane to fight in any sane ways.

Armed Civil Insurrection becomes social psychotic breakowns.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 01:53 | 3117820 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The price of blowing up the whole fucking planet with nukes, to secure My Freedom, is worth it.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 08:43 | 3118142 Seer
Seer's picture

The best way to fight something is to remove your energies from it (and better to apply your energies in the work to make a better something).

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 06:29 | 3118029 Seer
Seer's picture

And you expect the outcome to be what, exactly?

Sure, revenge might FEEL good, but then what?  We'll STILL be sitting on a mountain of debt.  We'll STILL be divided.  We'll STILL be facing declining resources.  And we'd have spent a lot of energy an ammunition to get there...

Stake your ground and defend it.  Anything else is an offensive front, which, I suppose, is fine if you're of a military/gang mindset and are looking to steal resources from others: and when the earth is conquered there are other planets </sarc>

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:41 | 3116814 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Citizens Bank Park....Citizens Bank, a subsidiary of the Royal Bank of Scotland, which in turn is now owned by Scotland, if I am not mistaken.  Oh, what a tangled web...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:17 | 3116946 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1, Stopped reading once I got there..

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:41 | 3116817 The worst trader
The worst trader's picture


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3116856 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Leonard Cohen and Pink Floyd have always been my two favorites.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:12 | 3117117 Gromit
Gromit's picture

"Everybody knows the boat is leaking,

Everybody knows the captain lied....."

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:50 | 3116858 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

That concert was more then just music and images, it was a spiritual experience!!!

More true today, then when it was written!!

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:37 | 3117003 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Riding the razors edge between sanity & insanity has always intrigued me. I've always found it odd that most leaders, around the world, are certifiably insane ;-)

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:48 | 3117401 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The best people in PF were Syd and Rick Wright.  Waters did not treat Wright, and to a lesser extent, Nick Mason very well.   After Waters left the group, David Gilmour said he had to have a backup drummer and keyboard player because Waters had destroyed Wright and Mason's confidence.    I like their music and Water's is right about the govt.  He is not a pleasant bloke and being a member of the band was no party.  

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:42 | 3116823 ReptilianSlaveMaster
ReptilianSlaveMaster's picture

Why not trust government? I get free drugs and 40,000$ in fraudulent benefit claims from Obama himself, these are great and prosperous times

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3116857 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

An Obama phone costs $40,000?   You should have traded up for the Volt.     /sarc

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:12 | 3116933 knukles
knukles's picture

The cost of that shit is your soul.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:21 | 3117158 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I tried to take off your one down vote; but I brainfarted it  and increased it instead; some of our fellow citizens are amazing. I often appreciate your comments.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:15 | 3117469 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

On ZH you have the option to go back and change your comment vote.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:45 | 3116834 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

V for Vendetta

Remember the 5th of November

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:46 | 3116840 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

trust the BASTARDS at your own risk.......................

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:47 | 3116843 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The current government is destroying the constitution. Instead of a government by the people, it's the government by the Kleptocracy.  

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:29 | 3117182 pods
pods's picture

In reality, it has been destroyed for a hundred and 50 years. 
They just neglected to inform us.


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 22:41 | 3117386 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

The US Constitution is theater for the proles. The curtains are gone for anyone that cares to understand history.

The Constitution hasn't applied to the elected government, shadow government nor the occasional group of self-appointed patriots for 130+ years.

Neither the Constitution, which has clearly failed at it's core, nor the exceptionally bellicose and self-indulgent population are worth saving now.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:17 | 3117477 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Now we get to see who our true enemies are. I like it.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:47 | 3116845 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

If you should go skating
On the thin ice of modern life
Dragging behind you the silent reproach
Of a million tear stained eyes
Don't be surprised, when a crack in the ice
Appears under your feet
You slip out of your depth and out of your mind
With your fear flowing out behind you
As you claw the thin ice

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:49 | 3116847 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

run scared goober mint bitchez  your time is coming; we see you and your handlers

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:49 | 3116848 Rainman
Rainman's picture

In God we're supposed to trust...says it right here on my FRN

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:12 | 3117121 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Correct. THEIR 'God'. Who taught them that eating of the forbidden fruit is good, as one will be like gods. And so they did and are like gods, "Doing (their) God's work".

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:30 | 3117185 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

When M(ammon) is God, the end is near.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3116860 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

The problem for Winston Smith was that when he started to question things he didn't have anything in common with many of his friends...welcome to our world.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 19:54 | 3116872 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And that is why we ALL should be thankful that there 80 million gun owners in America.  To prevent 1984's Oceania.  Molon Labe.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:06 | 3116909 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Guns alone will not do it.

But I assume you already knew that.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:32 | 3116992 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Moral character is the only ONE thing I can think of that WOULD do it.  Too bad that's a fail.


Wow, do all Christian Mingle women look like her?   (ad)  ---->


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:00 | 3117086 machinegear
machinegear's picture

Yes, except for Methodists. 

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:02 | 3117095 knukles
knukles's picture

The pic I got was of a glowing babe with a beard. 

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:08 | 3117107 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And where you been browsin'?


Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:47 | 3117572 knukles
knukles's picture

Enormous Sized Large Print Bibles

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 23:20 | 3117483 The Old Man
The Old Man's picture

Up 1 on the Christian Mingle.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:17 | 3117141 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Guns alone will not do it."


It will take a steady hand and a clear eye as well.

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:46 | 3117037 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

80 million +1 today. 

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:01 | 3117094 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Excellent!  Welcome to the club!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 08:53 | 3118156 Seer
Seer's picture

Not all that thankful that on the 1st I had to listen to one of my neighbors burning through a ton of ammo.  Doesn't take that much to aim in, and ammo ain't cheap (which would tend to make be think this was not a conservative function).  Now this guy's got LESS ammo for use when it matters...

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 20:05 | 3116870 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Having seen his Wall Tour performance this past summer at Citizens Bank Park with a diverse crowd of 40,000, ranging in age from senior citizens to teenagers, it seems this song has gained new meaning.


Hah!  Who's getting the last laugh there - the bank, the aging rock star or the oppressed audience members?

Wed, 01/02/2013 - 21:07 | 3117103 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Concert Approval; stamped "Approved" by the central council for peaceful citizens. "provides harmless and meaningless "blow-off"  of tension due to cognitive dissonance.

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