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Spain Plunders 90% Of Social Security Fund To Buy Its Own Debt

Tyler Durden's picture


With Spanish 10Y yields hovering at a 'relatively' healthy 5%, having been driven inexorably lower on the promise of ECB assistance at some time in the future, the market has become increasingly unsure of just who it is that keeps bidding for this stuff. Well, wonder no longer. As the WSJ notes, Spain has been quietly tapping the country's richest piggy bank, the Social Security Reserve Fund, as a buyer of last resort for Spanish government bonds - with at least 90% of the €65 billion ($85.7 billion) fund has been invested in increasingly risky Spanish debt. Of course, this is nothing new, the US (and the Irish) have been using quasi-government entities to fund themselves in a mutually-destructive circle-jerk for years - the only difference being there are other buyers in the Treasury market, whereas in Spain the marginal buyer is critical to support the sinking ship. The Spanish defend the use of pension funds to buy bonds as sustainable as long as it can issue bonds - and yet the only way it can actually get the bonds off in the public markets is through using the pension fund assets. The pensioners sum it up perfectly "We are very worried about this, we just don't know who's going to pay for the pensions of those who are younger now," or those who are older we would add.

Via Wall Street Journal: Spain Drains Pension Fund In Borrowing Spree

Spain has been quietly tapping the country's richest piggy bank, the Social Security Reserve Fund, as a buyer of last resort for Spanish government bonds, raising questions about the fund's role as guarantor of future pension payouts.


Now the scarcely noticed borrowing spree, carried out amid a prolonged economic crisis, is about to end, because there is little left to take. At least 90% of the €65 billion ($85.7 billion) fund has been invested in increasingly risky Spanish debt, according to official figures, and the government has begun withdrawing cash for emergency payments.


Although the trend has drawn little public attention or controversy, it has become a matter of concern for the relatively few independent financial analysts who study the fund, which is used to guarantee future payments of pensions.




In addition, there are worries that Social Security reserves for paying future pensioners are running out much quicker than expected.


In November, the government withdrew €4 billion from the reserve fund to pay pensions, the second time in history it had withdrawn cash. The first time was in September, when it took €3 billion to cover unspecified treasury needs.


Together, the emergency withdrawals surpassed the legal annual limit, so the government temporarily raised the cap.


"We are very worried about this," says Dolores San Martín, president of the largest association of pensioners in Asturias, a small region that has one of the highest percentages of retirees in Spain. "We just don't know who's going to pay for the pensions of those who are younger now."




After the crisis began, some of those countries began using the pension reserves for other contingencies, such covering a drop in foreign demand for their government bonds. Since the collapse of Ireland's property boom, for example, most of its pension fund has been used to buy shares of nationalized banks and real estate for which no foreign buyers could be found.


"Most of the [Spanish] fund is an accounting trick," said Javier Díaz-Giménez, an economics professor in Spain's IESE business school. "The government is lending money to another branch of government."


Spanish officials defend the heavy investment of the Social Security Reserve Fund in their government's high-risk bonds. They say the practice is sustainable as long as Spain can continue borrowing in financial markets, and they predict the economy will start to recover late in 2013, easing the debt crisis.




"With foreign investors staying away from the Spanish debt market, you're going to need all the support you can get from domestic players," said Rubén Segura-Cayuela, an economist with Bank of America-Merrill Lynch.




Spain's commercial banks already have increased their Spanish government-bond portfolio by a factor of six since the start of the crisis in 2008, and now own one-third of government bonds in circulation.


The percentage of Spanish government debt held by the Social Security Reserve Fund stood at 55% in 2008, according to official figures; by the end of 2011 it had risen to 90%. Analysts say the percentage has continued to rise, even as international agencies have lowered Spain's credit ratings.


Spain's continued use of those reserves to buy its own bonds appears to violate a rule set by government decree that mandates their investment only in securities "of high credit quality and a significant degree of liquidity."




But with unemployment now above 25% of the workforce and fewer wage earners paying in, the Social Security System is about €3 billion in deficit, according to government estimates.

And in other news, and completing the picture, if not the circle jerk, is news from Libremercado that according to the Spanish Confederantion of Employer Organizations, some 60% of the Spanish companies are now losing money. Via Google translate:

The President of the Spanish Confederation of Employer Organizations (CEOE) has estimated that "60 percent of the companies are in losses. Thing is that entrepreneurs are more thoughtful and went outside."


Joan Rosell responds well after being asked if he receives "Spanish citizens too negative" in an interview with the newspaper La Razon, who heads a special titled "2013, the recovery begins," and says that "social unrest is evident and business world is no exception. "


The president of the CEOE has considered that the private sector "has already made ??all the restructuring that had to do and the decline in employment in the private sector has virtually stopped. now is the restructuring of the public sector."


After defining the first year of Mariano Rajoy in government as a year of shock, Rosell has considered that the Spanish economy remains "superfluous fat by many sides.'s Central government, regional and local. Avoid duplication. We are a country hiperregulado ".

It is not exactly clear why google translate had a problem with that last word...


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Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:20 | 3120525 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

The Germans and just people in productive should just go Galt and only trade their goods with people who are actual customers, i.e., those  able to pay with something of comparable value. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:24 | 3120540 IvyMike
IvyMike's picture

A novel idea.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:28 | 3120549 tsx500
tsx500's picture

this could NEVER happen here .....  right   ? ? ?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:32 | 3120563 IvyMike
IvyMike's picture

Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:46 | 3120572 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

I'm so glad that I am not psychologically "all in" to this system.  I dunno how people are going to deal with "nothing left."  Is that when we start seeing more face-eaters?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:48 | 3120623 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

When this ride is over, people will truly see how much of a joke their whole economy truly was.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:11 | 3120704 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Pretty sure this is all coming off as expected.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:18 | 3120726 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

...and it's gone

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:46 | 3120791 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


100% of the Social Security trust fund has been borrowed by the fed gov and is in i.o.u.'s (Treasuries).

$2.7 trillion worth.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:58 | 3120824 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Yep, we can't plunder what is already plundered.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:11 | 3120847 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Hey, Social Security is a great American investment.  After all, who wouldnt think that if you give Uncle Sam a $1 today he will give you $.75 cents when you retire isn't a good deal?  I mean, you could lose it all in the stawk market and have nothing, or get something from Uncle.  Which would YOU chose?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:24 | 3120888 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Show me on this anotomically correct doll where Uncle Sam touched you.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:30 | 3120907 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Right on my balls and he won't stop squeezing!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:26 | 3121120 Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The complete and total worldwide economic collapse will fix most of we the peoples problems for us. And it'll be way too funny observing it happen.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:15 | 3121175 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The answer is bath salts.  A video you won't see on US news:

US Navy's old salts up in arms over designer drugs

"A spate of violent psychosis-induced attacks in the United States has their navy so concerned it has commissioned a video as part of a campaign to prevent its sailors from turning into sea monsters."

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:03 | 3121219 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

yahoo plastered that everywhere..  the PSA and everything

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:13 | 3121414 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Except that it's all 100% total bullshit drug scare. The Faceeater Rudy Eugene had not taken bath salts - it all came back to one of the cops saying he thought that must have been it.

It would be preferable if commenters here ceased repeating blatant untruths.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 03:19 | 3121277 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

That's fighting talk! good on ya.

Ben(B) the two of us need live no more
You yes know what you've been fighting for
With no place to call my own
Was blown up by a Drone. . . .
You Have A Friend In Me!!!

Your a shooting star on your way to mars
On a collision course; a sattelite; your outta control
Your a sex machine ready to reload like an Atom bomb
Your gonna whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa Explode
Your burning through the sky yeah
16T degrees thats why they call you Mr Farenheit
Your Printing at the speed of light . .
Dont Stop me now i'm having such a good time
Having a ball! dont stop me now; dont stop me now
I dont want stop at all. . . La lala lala

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 06:14 | 3121380 NorthPole
NorthPole's picture

Why do we still call the guy 'Uncle Sam' ? Let's move on with the times and call him Uncle Joshua.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:27 | 3120895 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

...the miracle of compound interest.     :)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:39 | 3120915 fallst
fallst's picture


3) The 1983 Social Security amendments enacted hefty increases in the payroll tax in order to generate large future surpluses.

4) As soon as the first surpluses began to role in, in 1985, the money was put into the general revenue fund and spent on other government programs. None of the surplus was saved or invested in anything. The surplus Social Security revenue, that was paid by working Americans, was used to replace the lost revenue from Reagan’s big income tax cuts that went primarily to the rich.

They skimmed 1.5% off FICA for "general revenue", raiding SS money for regular spending...a stealth 1.5% additional income tax to all brackets. 


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:49 | 3120951 odatruf
odatruf's picture



Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:39 | 3121199 donsluck
donsluck's picture

SS is not a government expense. It is repayment of a loan coerced through the IRS from the workers, who have no choice but to contribute. "entitlements" are just that, we are entitled ABOVE ALL OTHERS to repayment of those loans. Members of Congress who want to plunder SS are nothing more than thieves.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:45 | 3121205 akak
akak's picture

That is an incredibly naive viewpoint.

The reality is that SS is a pay-as-you-go system, always has been, and there are NO "loans", "lockboxes", or "trust funds" of any kind in any practical sense --- the money that is extorted from your and my paychecks (and more!) is spent for SS recipients just as soon as our kleptocratic government gets its hands on it.

You might just as effectively argue that the burglar who robs your house has taken out a "loan" of property that he is honor-bound to repay.  Good luck with that one, too.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:15 | 3121228 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Nice how you wrote all of that, but you forgot the one important word: Ponzi.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 06:30 | 3121393 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Thanks fallst for posting that. +1

From your link:


The reason I don’t believe the government will honor its debt to Social Security without major political pressure is that it does not legally have to repay the money.  The government certainly has a moral obligation to do so, but, because of a 1960 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, it has an out.  In the case of Fleming v. Nestor, the Court ruled that nobody has a “contractual earned right” to Social Security benefits.  This ruling was based on Section 1104 of the 1935 Social Security Act which specifically states, “The right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this ACT is hereby reserved to the Congress.” Based on this strong language, Congress could do whatever it wanted to do with regard to changing or even eliminating Social Security.


Btw that should be Flemming v. Nestor.

Why you were called an idiot and received 8 down votes is beyond me. I guess the truth does hurt some of those who've 'invested' in political hero worship of one cult of personality or another.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:21 | 3121425 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

There is a group of junkers here that neither read nor comprehend the articles or the comments, but just reflexively junk when they see certain keywords. That is the limit of their intelligence and contribution.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 08:14 | 3121463 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

Wow, are you saying there are HFT's on ZH as well now?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 08:49 | 3121501 Shitters_Full
Shitters_Full's picture

Sorry but my programming required that I down arrow you for mentioning HFTs in a negative light.

My only regret is that I have but one junk to give!


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:19 | 3121025 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Spain and the USA are rapidly "doing an Argentina": defaulting one way or another.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:15 | 3121227 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I would choose, "Beam me up Scotty"; sigh.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:48 | 3120950 BuckShotJones
BuckShotJones's picture

What is rehypothecation then?



Fri, 01/04/2013 - 06:22 | 3121387 theorist
theorist's picture

Do remember that although this is inexcusable the difference between the US and Spain is that Spain cannot print its currency. Therefore, when the Spanish government defaults the Spanish Reserve fund will have nothing but cliams on a government that cannot pay, whether by inflating the currency or otherwise. That makes the Spanish situation  a lot worse.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 08:49 | 3121502 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

I like ZH and the comments because they do make me think about things.  I don't buy the whole conspiracy theory or the working out as planning stuff completely as I don't think anything can be entirely controlled in todays world (an interesting question is whether those who preach revolution would turn me away if I asked if I could deposit my money with them instead of the banks?)

I agree there are those with more control than others.  If I step back a few centuries when towns were new and small and a group of guys offered to start managing everyone's affairs, then it is pretty logical to assume that they took a small skim to remunerate themselves for their effort.  Today's systems have grown organically from that and I don't have a total problem with it because I couldn't do it much better - certainly not with the vast and rapid increases in population that have been possible from all the revolutions and modermisations taken place within all the various civilisations around the world.  Also, I don't want to bother myself with everyone else's administration - I'm too busy doing things I enjoy rather than managing everyone elses affairs (my choice).

I think a big part of todays issue is that people are just getting too lazy. If something can't be done online then its too much effort and too labour-intensive.  Rather than do a decade's work, I'll just strip the equity out of my property.  Yes, banks were to blame for getting too carried away, but they can't sell debt if no-one wants it and demand at the time was so great they had to create synthetic produces to keep up with it.

Anyway, have to wrap up my ramblings as have work to do, but I'm pretty sure the burgeoning populations are the real battle for governments and all the hamfisted and inappropriate policies are mostly as a result of that - as resources get harder to come by, those who have are the ones who get served first.  I resent not being one of them, but there's nothing I can do other than try to scrape a little bit off the system at the same time as I contribute to it.

I mean there is of course the legacy of what we leave for our children, but there is also respect to pay to our elders.  My father spent all his days working to make what he could for me and he gave his pound of flesh.... am I really all that above doing the same?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:20 | 3121114 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

But will they understand how truly evil government is?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:18 | 3121230 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I doubt it. The explanation machine, the opinion creator, will "explain" the things "no one could have foreseen"'; and there will be scapegoats, of course. At least, that's the way it's usually done.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:04 | 3120682 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

Throwing good money after bad...will not end well.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:07 | 3120692 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:41 | 3120778 Salon
Salon's picture

We have seen speculators chasing their losses so many times.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:47 | 3120930 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

"I dunno how people are going to deal with "nothing left."  Is that when we start seeing more face-eaters?"

sunaJ, When there is "nothing left" there is nothing left to lose, except maybe your face...


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:36 | 3120575 akak
akak's picture

Everything I say is the truth.

I am lying.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:44 | 3120608 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Does not compute...unless you are an economist.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:09 | 3120662 akak
akak's picture

Broken windows represent an economic loss.

Breaking windows is good for the economy.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:11 | 3120703 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Same for a broken currency ...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:56 | 3120658 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

He's from Truthville and you can trust him.  I should know, I'm from Liars Town. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:13 | 3120683 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Better head back to Tennessee, Jed.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:40 | 3120776 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Ain't no place I'd rather be.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:08 | 3121001 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Watch Brent bust one out for the bitchez.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:23 | 3120739 S5936
S5936's picture

I ran into Charlie Ford, he blacked my eye and he kicked my dog !

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:57 | 3120979 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you know the story of the island with the identical twins where one always lies and one always tells the truth?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 11:20 | 3121998 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

there is no truth......there are only interpretations

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:33 | 3120568 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

They already plundered SS to waste on insane political favors and wars.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:40 | 3120583 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"We just don't know who's going to pay for the pensions of those who are younger now."\

It's just a good thing those who are older don't have anything to worry about. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:42 | 3120591 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Yeah, we don't even pretend the money has to come from somewhere, now.  We just have the Federal Reserve claim that all the trillions of mortgage back securities that they are backstopping or given by the banks are capital for them to write checks for money they dont even have. Translate that into Chinese and see what happpens. #winning

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:33 | 3120761 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Well they plundered it, that's for sure.  The US SS Trust Fund is stuffed with nothing but a bunch of IOUs from Congress (not Treasuries, but a unique debt marker that is a distinction with little difference).  The minute SS goes negative (which I think it did slightly in the last year or so for the first time) it starts becoming a drag on CURRENT tax revenues.  Not 2033, when the "surplus" is estimated to be exhausted.  Now.

Add that on top of other myriad entitlements that don't even PRETEND to have a reserve fund and you've got a recipe for a decline far more rapid than the average citizen thinks is possible.

And it's all trending in the wrong direction with 10,000 baby boomers retiring EVERY DAY.  If it's any consolation, not even all the boomers will see the promised benefits.  The HUNDRED TRILLION OR SO of "unfunded liabilities" (primises of futrue benefits payments) as they are called, are not fiction, although many pretend they are.  They are about to become very real in the next handfull of years, thanks largely to demographics and helped along by the downturn in the economy.  You could tax everyone at some astronomical rate and still never be able to pay for them all.

FYI- SS didn't always have a trust fund.  It used to be "pay as you go" for decades.  What were they thinking putting all that money in the hands of politicians who could so easily "steal" it?  You gotta be nuts to think that was ever going to work out.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:11 | 3120848 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture

Great post.  BTW the minute SS goes negative, SS ends.  There is no trust fund.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:21 | 3120874 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Sorry, it won't go negative.  Ben can print money to pay the bills, even better he can hit the zero key a few times on his keyboard and like magic, they have the money to pay the benefits.    But gas and food will double or triple in price, and your SS benefits will be capped at 2% by their ever changing magical COLA formula.  Most idiots will blame the food producers and the oil companies for gouging, but it will just be a magical slight of hand the Fed uses to shift the blame off of the government.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:40 | 3121061 Sam Houston
Sam Houston's picture

Slightly off.  Sleight.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:21 | 3121115 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I need to lern how to spell now???? Dam.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:31 | 3120908 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

No one "put it in their hands."

Just like now, a bill was passed, and the money disappeared.

Wait until you see all the damage from obamacare. (which YOU allowed !)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:28 | 3121042 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture


Actually, it was accumulated for a while and then it got disappeared.  I think the "trust fund" was set up around 1982-ish (don't quote me on that) but it got disappeared when Bill Clinton used that surplus to offset the deficit.  One of the main accounting gimmicks he used to get us to the "balanced budget" (slight surplus) during his 2nd term.  A trick you can only pull once.  Then you end up where we are now- recognition that like all Ponzi schemes before it, only those in early make out.  Everyone who comes later just has their money taken.

Like me.  And probably most of you.

If I could opt-out of SS I would do it in a cold minute.  The payoff is years past break-even for most people.  By the time I retire I would have to live to almost 100 to hit break-even on what I put in.  My grand parents who retired in 1981 only needed 3 years to hit the break-even point, FYI.  This is made worse by the fact I'm self-emplyed so I'm paying the 6.2% employee side (it just went back to that rate on Jan 1 from the temporarily lower 4.2% of the last 2 years) AND the 6.2% employer-paid side (which has been 6.2% for a long time and was not affected by the temporary 2% cut 2 years ago). That's almost 13% of my take-home that I would have IN MY POCKET if I could totally opt out of the SS system.  THIRTEEN FUCKING PERCENT.  How many people you know who save 13% of their income for retirement??  Gimme that 13 and let me take my chances.  I suspect I'll be able to easily outrun my expected future SS benefit, even if by some miracle I get every dollar owed me, which I won't.

To say this is the Mother Of All Ponzi Schemes is massive understatement.  Anyone not getting it right now or in the near future is getting screwed so bad it's difficult to wrap your brain around the enormity of the ass-pounding.

Oh, and as for Spain.... all I can say is "welcome to the party, pal."  The European welfare state is in as bad or worse shape than we are.  For years libs pointed to Europe as the model.  They seem to make it work just fine so what's wrong with the US??  NOTHING is wrong with the US.  They're as fucked up as we are, probably worse AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN SPEND NEARLY THE MONEY WE DO ON THEIR MILITARY. 

THE WHOLE GODDAM WELFARE STATE IS GOING TO COME DOWN IN OUR LIFETIMES.  The weight of demographics alone is more than adequate to crush the Ponzi.  Add in some graft, corruption and stupidity along the way and it's game over, insert coins (a FUCKING LOT of coins).


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:53 | 3121077 Sam Houston
Sam Houston's picture

THE WHOLE GODDAM WELFARE STATE IS GOING TO COME DOWN IN OUR LIFETIMES.  The weight of demographics alone is more than adequate to crush the Ponzi.  Add in some graft, corruption and stupidity along the way and it's game over, insert coins (a FUCKING LOT of coins).

End quote.

I truly believe that is the whole wicked plan.  Then what follows?  That is "their" goal. 

Then what will we do? 

They are organized.  We are separated from one another and only offer our impotent comments.   

How shall we organize?  Is that not our best chance to fight back?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:26 | 3121122 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It's not a plan.

They are just incapable of thinking otherwise.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:45 | 3121206 donsluck
donsluck's picture

You can, actually, kinda, opt out. Plant a garden, live within walking distance of work, get solar power. Reduce your income to what you actually need (not want). This reduces all taxes. This is the future, embrace it. A penny saved is actually about two pennies earned. You don't need as much as you think.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:46 | 3121441 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

Problem where I am (London) is that in order to have a garden big enough to harvest sufficient food to survive, I'd need to stay about 2 days walk away... 

I've opted out of paying my TV license... apparently that's a fight I can win... we'll see.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:45 | 3120613 Deacon Frost
Deacon Frost's picture

Coming soon to a ‘Theatre’ Country near you.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:00 | 3120665 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

i didn't think the u.s had a social security fund to take?



Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:52 | 3120961 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

I was wondering for weeks how the interest rate on Spain got down to 5%.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:51 | 3121154 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Can't see how this differs from our system.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 03:25 | 3121281 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



They've looted SS dry. 

Your 401k is next.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:11 | 3121415 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

Where are you?  In the UK?  Oh well, too late... Gordon Brown already plundered that cookie jar...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:23 | 3120740 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Shit peddler Alert!

We need all available septic trucks to go help the Fed move all that shit their printing!!!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:04 | 3120836 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

Good thing we don't do this in the USA ... right . .   . ? ? ?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:23 | 3121236 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I have no idea why people downvoted your comment; it seems like an innocent piece of sarcastic irony. Does your avatar name refer to the infamous thermonuclear test shot? That was practically a world record piece of stupidity at the time.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:30 | 3120558 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Dig deeper, friend.  Germany, et al lent them the money to buy what they knew they could not afford.  But in the meanwhile, exports were up and all looked good.  'Blaming the victim' only goes so far.  Same game here, of course.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:58 | 3120981 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"game" is the right noun

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:34 | 3120569 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

They could've at least spent the SS fund on something killing brown people

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:35 | 3120920 Rat Patrol
Rat Patrol's picture

I thought the Spanisgh were brown people. This pc shit gets confusing after a while.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:28 | 3121126 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

They are... but the US hasn't invaded them........yet

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:34 | 3120765 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Wash, rinse and explode. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:13 | 3121174 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

French toast, too?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:30 | 3121245 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

AArrgh. You made me spit up my tea on my desk. LOL. Yes, French Toast too. You have to laugh, really, you couldn't make this shit up.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 04:43 | 3121331 chaartist
chaartist's picture

Germans are not so productive in my opinion. They used the EU structure to trick smaller countries into tax evasion scheme where they profited on their expense for trillions of EURos besides the policies they had written for themselves and their corporations. Their banks stand on water and so will be their productivity in my opinion. Only if military production will take a lead.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 04:56 | 3121339 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

yep, all those cars and tech are made in Belgium ...or was it Portugal?

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 04:12 | 3124811 chaartist
chaartist's picture

yep, look at all those tech things coming out of Japan. And then look at their country from economic perspective. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:21 | 3120527 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

where's the fucking money shithead?!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:36 | 3120576 IvyMike
IvyMike's picture

"Whoever gives his labor for money sells himself and puts himself in the rank of slaves."
~Marcus Tullius Cicero

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:49 | 3120634 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

I like that. Was Cicero from the New Jersey mob or New York?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:27 | 3120750 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

I believe Chicago... Where all those growing noses congregate.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:54 | 3120809 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

You mean "Where all those pole smokers/salad tossers congregate"

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:55 | 3120803 EmmittFitzhume
EmmittFitzhume's picture

Are you a slave to Soros? who pays you to lurk around here?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:19 | 3120866 IvyMike
IvyMike's picture

Are you a slave of Soros? He's a City-State (Civilization) slicker like you.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:40 | 3121062 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Maybe you should hang around and read the articles for awhile before you start carpet posting.  Newbies(no matter how smart they are), usually get their asses handed back to themselves here.  I know it's proper to fight first time out, but after an initial ass-kicking, a break and re-grouping is in order.  This isn't Yahoo finance chat; there are some smart dudes here. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:20 | 3121422 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

I think this advice should be framed...

After my initial ass-kicking (which wasn't even too severe) I'm still relegated to posting subservient collusional comments like this one.

+1 for the humour anyway

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 12:06 | 3122194 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I propagate this advice after having my own lunch taken a couple of times early on.  AKAK and Francis_sawyer both sent me home hungry; even after I hung around ZH for a year before even getting a login.  Now I'm with you; just getting a jab in once a week, and that not very effectively! 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:12 | 3121103 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

"The last official act of any Government is to loot the Treasury".
-George Washington

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Unless you become more watchful in your states and check the spirit of monopoly and thirst for exclusive privileges you will in the end find that... the control over your dearest interests has passed into the hands of these corporations."
- Andrew Jackson

"I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuff­­­­s of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the Bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the Bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out and, by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out."
-Andrew Jackson

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
-Abraham Lincoln

The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government's greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will become matters of practical administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity."
-Abraham Lincoln

“A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
- Woodrow Wilson

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
-Theodore Roosevelt

It has become entirely clear that we must have government supervision of the capitalization, not only of public-service corporations, including, particularly, railways, but of all corporations doing an interstate business
-Theodore Roosevelt

There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will be neither a short nor an easy task, but it can be done.
-Theodore Roosevelt

There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will be neither a short nor an easy task, but it can be done.
-Theodore Roosevelt

These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the Flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the Flag and the Constitution stand for.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people’s property, other people’s money, other people’s labor, other people’s lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness...
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"The test of our progress is not whether we add to the abundance of those who have much : It is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

"Republicans approve of the American Farmer- but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand 4-square for the American Home, but not for Housing. They are strong for Labor- but they are Stronger for Restricting Labor's Rights. They favor Minimum Wage - the Smaller the minimum Wage the Better. They endorse Educational opportunity for all - but won't spend money for Teachers or Schools. They think modern Medical care and hospitals are fine - For People who can Afford Them. They consider electrical Power a great blessing - but only when the Private Power Companies get their rake-off. They think the American Standard of Living is Fine - so long as it doesn't spread to All People. And, they Admire the Government of the United States So Much - THEY'D LIKE TO BUY IT."
-Harry S. Truman

we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Dwight D Eisenhower

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:44 | 3121146 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"Bacteria are prior to, and independent of humans. Humans are only the fruit of bacteria, and could never have existed if bacteria had not first existed. Bacteria are the superior of humans, and deserve much the higher consideration."

Abraham Lenin

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:00 | 3121165 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"The usurpation of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of the Fed, but it is the Fed's greatest pilfering opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the FED will become matters of private administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of the Elites."

Abraham Lenin

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 08:49 | 3121494 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture


"Whoever gives his labor for money sells himself and puts himself in the rank of slaves."

~Marcus Tullius Cicero


Cicero is overrated. He believed his political career was his most important achievement... You're selling (not giving) your labor (product/service) not yourself. There's a clear difference.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:21 | 3120529 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

So Spain follows Argentina. And the Fed wonders if maybe US retirement money can replace the Fed in buying Treasuries? Ugh.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:53 | 3120649 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

401Ks could keep things going another decade until the Chinese cut us off and the jobs come back. They're goal is to add 25 million jobs a year and should have plenty of consumers on their own side of the world by then.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:51 | 3121153 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

China's running a trade surplus with the US and is not needing to be buying Treasuries.  If the US gov is thinking of mandating that US citizens' IRAs, 401ks, et. al. have some percentage of US govt debt big enough to offset the Fed, they better also figure on buying up all the Japanese and Chinese holdings, too, as intelligent investors that could get out would get out.  That really would be Argentina-style and would do bad things to the dollar.  It would make us competitive again, sort of like the poor peasants in China.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:54 | 3121268 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Who would want to give China and Japan the security of 401Ks et al backing up their motgage backed security and treasury bond purchases, besides China and Japan? That was never part of the deal. Those investments are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America, they knew that going in. The Feral Reserve on the other hand is our lender of last and only resort and they dont even have any money, now that's loyalty. We must reward them with security and higher taxes and austerity since they own the congress and president regardless of which party is in office. It wouldn't lower the value of the dollar if the Feral Reserve skims some off the top, that'll be stashed away for future generations of bankers unless they see China and Japan dumping their mortgage backed securities on the market cheap. Then the dollar would drop and that's what the politicians and Feral Reserve wants, so that the government promises can be cut in half by dollar devaluation.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:53 | 3120652 Salon
Salon's picture

History repeats itself. First as a tragedy, then as a farce.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:20 | 3120730 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Use the farce Luke, or as Rahm (It in your Fudge machine) Emanuel said "Never let a good crisis go to waste" Order out of chaos and all of that jazz.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:22 | 3120533 HD
HD's picture

If I ran these PIIG countries I would just start counterfeiting euros and be done with it. No disclosure, no bailouts - everything is "fixed" without the dog and pony show.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:23 | 3120725 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Isn't that the problem there? They forgot to add the "any bankrupt member can Print Euros at Will" clause in the pact.


EDIT: Oh, you said "counterfeit." Sorry.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:45 | 3121207 Twodogs
Twodogs's picture

What's the difference between counterfeit Euros and official Euros backed by nothing at all?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:40 | 3121255 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I'm glad you asked that question; really, I am. There's a very, very important difference between counterfeit Euros and offical Euros. It's, uh. uhh. it's, uhh; the paper. yes, that's it; real euros are printed on very very good paper. I hope that answers your question. next?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:21 | 3120878 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

the spanish central bank can print euros as long as SPGB's remain investment grade (held in "pretend" welfare funs). pretty much the same in any country and its currency.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:22 | 3120535 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

they still have actual money in their Social Security accounts? Wow are they behind the times.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:31 | 3120560 Freddie
Freddie's picture

They have a "Lockbox."  Al Gore got his $100 lockbox payoff for his Tv "network' from Al Qeada today.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:42 | 3120593 nmewn
nmewn's picture

...last week I think...before the new tax rates on capital gains kick in.

The "burning" question is, will the male talking heads have to grow beards & the females wear burkas now?

And selling out to oil producing Qatar of all very Inconvenient Truth ;-) 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:20 | 3120873 Charles Wilson
Charles Wilson's picture

No, this is Amerika.

The females grow beards and the males wear burkas.



Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:01 | 3120986 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yeah I was thinking about Qatar too. It's almost as if...he can be bought. You can payoff a vice president but you can't payoff his massage therapist

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:20 | 3121233 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Do a little digging and you will find most of American TV (networks which own most of the channels) is backed by Saudi money and their supposed enemies aka Rahm, his brother et al.   Fox is and so are the others.  Disney's second largest shareholder Saudi/Al Waleed.   The only one that is not in deep is CBS/Viacom/VH1/MTV.  Sumner redstone has plenty of deals with them.

It is all about access to China's TV satellites and the Middle eastern (Saudi) sats. Why? Billions of people.  VH 1 alone  reaches 1 billion muslims in Indonesia.   Turn off TV and Hollywood.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 05:12 | 3121347 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

Indonesia has 245 million citizens.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 06:46 | 3121401 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



The Gore family and oil isn't a new thing...



For example, in the Democratic Party, Vice President Al Gore has a long-time relationship with Occidental Petroleum that has been enormously beneficial to the company. Occidental's late chairman, the controversial Armand Hammer, liked to say that he had Gore's father, Senator Albert Gore, Senior, quote, "in my back pocket", unquote. When the elder Gore left the Senate in 1970, Hammer hired him for $500,000 a year. Personally and professionally the vice president has profited from Occidental largess. To this day he still draws $20,000 a year from a land deal in Tennessee brokered between his father and Hammer. The total amount is more than $300,000. The personal relationship between young Gore and Hammer was very close throughout the 1980's, including trips on Hammer's private jet and constant campaign contributions.


For most of the 20th century, oil companies have tried unsuccessfully to obtain control of two oil fields owned and operated by the federal government: the Teapot Dome field in Casper, Wyoming, and the Elk Hills field in Bakersfield, California. Despite his public reputation as a staunch environmentalist, Gore recommended that the president approve giving oil companies access to this publicly owned land. It is land that the U.S. Navy has held as emergency reserves since 1912. In October, 1997, the Energy Department announced that the government would sell 47,000 acres of the Elk Hills reserve to Occidental.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:43 | 3120600 Stuntgirl
Stuntgirl's picture

That's just because first we spent all our bank deposits guarantee fund...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:27 | 3120539 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Can someone connect the evil dots for me today? Last month the fed comes out and not only doubles down on QE but clearly states they will continue QE until well after the economy (year right) has begun to expand. They placed an emphasis on the fact that they would not wind down the program even if thing show improvement. Today there is a mutiny and several members want to end QE soon, at most by the end of the year.

Was this some long winded PM knockdown at the expense of setting off a treadury selloff prior to debt ceiling? That makes no sense. Was it because inflation reared it's ugly head? Nope? Unemployment hitting 6.5%? Nope.

Why would they come out a month after doubling down and indicate they want to reverse course? Unless they want to try to spark something? If so, what?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:32 | 3120561 Being Free
Being Free's picture

They have PM's in the crosshairs. When AU and it's brothers take off it's the end of the ponzi.  They will lie, cheat, steal, fuck your mother, or whatever to make the sheep afraid of the PM's.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:05 | 3120997 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

they're fucking my children more than my mother.. fuckers

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:28 | 3121430 nmewn
nmewn's picture


An honorable system of governance does not do this.

When the law becomes little more than a mechanism to steal from the productive and future generations, it ceases to be a law that will be respected by anyone. Add in the fact that vested interests inside government, use the same, to maintain their power, their influence & prestige and you have the perfect storm of unethical behavior leading to corruption...and finally...systemic collapse.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 11:03 | 3121918 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

at some point the children will come to realize that they are the adult and move to stop their older, destructive kids. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:40 | 3120585 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Think the stage is being set for 401k money to be forced to  "invest" in UST's.

The Govt. is being paniced by the threat of the FedRes not funding the deficit.

Playing chess,not chequers here.

Now the FedRes doesn't want junk US debt either.They joined the club.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:43 | 3120599 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Then why threaten to end bond purchases and scare everyone out of the UST's they want everyone to buy?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:52 | 3120648 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Mainly nobody else except them is buying them.80% now.

A message is being delivered .They expect pressure from other holders/players to

carry the water.

The 401k money was always their exit plan.Too tempting a target.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:44 | 3120785 The Miser
The Miser's picture

Taking 401k money and giving the owners of the 401ks a credit (treasuries) in their SS accounts is on the horizon.   It is only a matter of time.  After all, they need to re-distribute the wealth.  The rich need to do their fair share.  Shame on you for diverting federal taxes in your 401k when others have not. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:20 | 3120872 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Why stop at 401(k)? The minute they pull that trigger is the minute this whole thing is exposed to the average joe with his $15k "saved" up. Plus, most 401(k) $$ is in the stock market. So, that would tank the market in 2 seconds taking all that 401(k) $$ out of stocks and shoving it into bonds.  


Unless that is what they want - and if the end of the market is to be, then why not take every fucking dime in stocks and transfer it over to Bonds? Close out every mutual fund and trading house in the USA all at once. Now Unca Sam's bonds are the only thing anyone can invest in.


Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:25 | 3121239 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

no it will just be collateralized ...  rehypocathated or whatever..  spin and make more from nothing to support all our dreams

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:01 | 3120669 centerline
centerline's picture

The same game as last time, just more people going hawkish.  Playing into what we know (and others) - that QE can't end.  Just smoke and mirrors for the masses.  Nothing else - except a sign that pressure is starting to mount... big time.

Plus, they have the market cornered anyhow.  Keep in mind that funds desperately need yield and have no choice but to accommodate previously unheard of risk or go bust.  The game will be played right up until the music stops.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:08 | 3120694 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Why chance the spark of a treasury selloff? What was the goal? Knock PM's down a few bucks? In the process making themselves look like total schizophrenic nut jobs?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:17 | 3120721 centerline
centerline's picture

I think the nut job thing is more like it.

Please don't throw me in the briar patch!  lol.

It's the eventual exit.  Fed was built to be dismantled.  Just like any other corporation built to veil and protect it's shareholders.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:18 | 3120727 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

come on in centerline. I am out here in the deep end.

The fed may exit, but it won't send smoke signals. It will just end and take as many with it as possible.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:52 | 3120804 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

I like where you are at fonz. Always liked your comments and lines of thought.


Maybe they are trying to drag down the price of PMs to discourage buying of said PMs either by Central Banks or sheeple? Trying to maintain the currency monoply by smashing the oppenents.


Who knows?!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:58 | 3120819 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

That is probably the answer. I am probably complicating it, and thanks for the compliment. To do that at the expense of a bond selloff just blows my mind. Unless a bond selloff is what they want.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:21 | 3120877 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

I think the commenter Al Huxley put it better terms than I ever could,

"I'm not sure how much of this stuff is planned and how much of the time they're just shooting from the hip and making shit up as they go now.  I'm pretty sure they have an overall game plan, but there are going to be surprises along the way - nobody has complete control of the way all of this unfolds."


Are the central planners omnicient and, more importantly, omnipotent? I doubt it. Maybe they are testing the waters?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:23 | 3120883 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Al knows his shit.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:00 | 3121086 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

Check this out.


The Perception enforcers are already coming out.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 05:54 | 3121372 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Read the fucking comments! Do the sheeple awaken in 2013?!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:08 | 3120693 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

The Feral Reserve can't buy $5 trillion to $10 trillion more in treasury bonds at the same time they save mortgage backed securities Detroit, New Jersey, New York, Europe and pensions. They want to see interest rates go up even though the value of their bonds go down in the short term. Their capital of all those mortgage backed securities and treasury bonds could be called fraud and not need to be paid back if they raise their balance sheet to double digit trillions. They want to see the annual deficit at least cut in half and are signaling that even with millions of lost jobs involved. They were going to have to choke at some point. The Chinese and Japanese will never be paid and the Feral Reserve is looking iffy.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:11 | 3120701 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Why not just have an old fashioned market tank and go NIRP? Why spook the bond market? How are they going to cut the deficit in half? Keep going I'm listening.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:21 | 3121179 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Well, it might be a bit tea party republican, but they could cut off all aid to states. It doesn't make much sense for people in Detroit to pay for teachers and firemen in Cleveland. They say the federal government pays for one third of the state budgets, so stop doing it. Let them raise taxes at the local level. I'm taking a wild guess of $450 billion there. Then, cut off all foreign aid and enough military cuts to get another $150 billion. That gets us pretty close. Let the bush tax cuts(now the Obama tax cuts) expire early and we're there. The main issue is $250 a month labor on the other side of the world that dictates that we have to waste a lot of energy resources to keep that exploitation going as long as possible to keep the corporations rich. It's actually nonsense from anything but a fiat perspective and will collapse eventually. I hope for China to confiscate their factories and property to make up for their worthless treasury bonds and mortgage backed securities. I think the cure will come from outside the country, not congress or the president. The best plan B is bring in teachers and firemen on H1B visas and only pay them $15 an hour for the hours they actually work with no retirement in 20 years or 40 years. Maybe a free apartment. It'd be great for at least foreign language teachers, to start. If it's good for engineers, it's good for the rest.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:51 | 3120644 centerline
centerline's picture

Just doing the only thing they really can - flap thier gums.  Problem now is that everyone is onto the fact the only thing they have left is serious shock and awe crap, and if it goes south they are screwed.  Instead, they are going to paint the politicians further into the corner.  Just watch.  This fiscal "cliff" thing is the setup.  Each round the politicians play right into it and dig a deeper hole.  We know this because thier is no way out without profound pain... the sort of pain the gets politicians kicked out of office and ends thier own gravy train in the process.  Not to mention that at least half those egomaniacs (if not more) think they can ride this beast into the sunset.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:45 | 3121068 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

I'm going to beat my dead horse here.

We might all be able to agree on one thing and start with the same assumption, which is that things suck and the outlook is not good

After that, we might differ.  There is a school of thought that is more comfortable---even when faced with a horrific near certainty---to think that some force is in charge.  Those of this school will accept a malevolent leadership just so long as it explains why things turned so badly.  They prefer to believe there is a plan and malice aforethought, because someone in control, even a malevolent force, leaves open the slight possibility of a deal with the devil.  The thought of randomness or abject incompetence at the helm scares them.  Man creates gods for the same reason, and then accepts all sorts of "works in strange ways" and Master Plans, rather than face the fact that "shit happens" due solely to physics and not some Infinite Morality.

The other school of thought, of which I am a member, is that those who reached positions of authority and control are in over their heads, haven't a clue what their machinations will unleash, will sometimes take false comfort in their arrogance---as in "models" and "research"---and other times just feel terribly insecure, might occasionally take advice from someone else who thinks he can game things to his favor, and ultimately just pretend to have things under control so as not to panic the masses.

In the end, they cry like babies and scream for mother.  I've got a pacifier ready for Ben when the time comes, but I'm still undecided as to whether I stick it in his mouth or shove it up his arse.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:15 | 3120857 booboo
booboo's picture

There are only two dots on the page. One titled "Watch what we say" the other titled "Watch what we do" There is no connection, but I would stick with the second because they are fucking liars.


Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:45 | 3121258 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Their boss, the swindler in chief, got re-elected; they don't give a shit now. I think they're just bored; maybe they'll fuck around with the economy a little, see what blows up.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:25 | 3120544 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its all in government bonds...its all perfectly safe!...ROTFLMAO!!!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:29 | 3120553 ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

It is all to finance our next great world war, gentlemen. As these schemes have always been.

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