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Spot The Oddest After Hours Market (So Far)

Tyler Durden's picture


FX markets and precious metals are continuing to trade weaker after hours along with Treasury yields (in some very gappy and unhappy ways) - but the S&P 500 futures are flatlining for now (as NKY futures push higher - merely playing catch up to ES since New Year's Eve). Odder and odderer...



and for those wondering just how much further this slide in EURUSD can go (following the huge year-end repatriation dislocation) - we offer a somewhat startling suggestion...


and Japanese markets are continuing their convergence (with bear steepening in JGBs and JPY weakness)...


as Nikkei catches up to ES after being closed since New Year's Eve...


Charts: Bloomberg


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Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:43 | 3120596 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture




It's S&P right?

What do I win?

Stolen money?

I will no longer play. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:30 | 3120705 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

The 'American people' need demand it.  - USA.GOV




Notice I didn't say "The People of America" cuz they don't matter one bit. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:40 | 3120797 strannick
strannick's picture



Financials buoyed, Commods anchored. Dont worry the CFTC is on the scene. 

CFTC Commisioners Jill Sommers

Bart Chilton

Scott Omalia

Gary Gensler

are in charge of fair markets like it says on the plaque outside the the CFTC building. They are also responsible for (giggle) prosecuting manipulation.

Instead in the real world we have corrupt markets.

Bankster lackeys, bureaucratic imbeciles or just trying their best. You decide

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:19 | 3121024 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

The market is really enjoying this fiscal cliff deal.

Now comes the debt ceiling.

Wall Street will win again.

More debt, more money printing.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:43 | 3120598 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:19 | 3120996 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Does anyone else get the feeling that the brain trusts in charge of making this sort of thing happen, think we all still check the newspaper to get yesterday's quotes to see what is going on?  I dumb are these guys that they think they can manipulate shit right out in the open...where even a half dedicated "investor" could see it?

What a joke!

In the same vein, does Goldman Sachs think that so many Americans are watching reality tv that they would not notice the nice ca ching planted in the "fiscal cliff" pay for their new digs?  How is every American not supposed to be laughing at Wall Street and DC just now?  Honestly, who really believes capital formation will show its head again to these know, within the next two or three generations?

DC, Wall Street, The Market...are a complete laughing stock...and it would be funny except for the fact that this shit is financial theft on a scale never before seen. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:44 | 3120604 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Gold got real weird real fast.. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:46 | 3120616 dexter bland
dexter bland's picture

The trade is to dump USTs. Gold is getting dragged along in its wake. The only thing weird about is that it hasn't happened sooner.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:53 | 3120650 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Bernanke to fellow FED members behind close doors - 'you guys ASSURED me that bond traders were the smartest fuckers in the room - that they'd never get sucked in by that 'some members want to end QE before end 2013' bullshit, and only the dumbass spec long gold traders would dump here!  What the fuck do we do now!?'

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:12 | 3120664 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Whats the deal Al? Was that message to stave off a downgrade (that was never actually coming)? That release today makes absolutely no sense unless they want to actually try to blow a hole in the bond market. Or like you said they were shooting for a $100 gold knockdown day. They are risking the possibility that even the dumbest motherfkers start to actually wonder if these guys have lost their minds.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:33 | 3120763 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

Speculation is that as Abe goes all out on JPY he has to monetize twice as many JGB and as a result ditch buying of TSY. This means bye bye only real forgein buyer of TSY and ultimately bye bye TSY

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:36 | 3120773 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Well, I'm pretty sure that the bullion banks have been anxious to close out their short positions - they've been 2:1 short-long for a while now, and haven't been getting the downside action they need to drop that ratio, so I don't take any of the action in the gold market at face value.  There's no way that 1.5 trillion+ deficits, Basel III proposals to make gold equivalent to cash and sovereign debt, and increasingly  blatant monetization (under the guise of QE) is anything but bullish for gold.  But the action for the past month especially seems to have a lot of people questioning their commitment, which would be just what they need. 


But I don't see it being in their interest to burst the bond bubble - the one thing that will kill the whole game pretty much immediately is an increas in interest rates. They're already buying most of the new issuance, I doubt they want to deal with the incremental funding that would be required if interest rates start rising - it just makes the death spiral the system is in obvious to everybody, so I think the bond selloff might be an accidental side effect.  I'm not sure how much of this stuff is planned and how much of the time they're just shooting from the hip and making shit up as they go now.  I'm pretty sure they have an overall game plan, but there are going to be surprises along the way - nobody has complete control of the way all of this unfolds.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:45 | 3120786 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks for the thoughts. The way I see it there are two roads here. The first is avoid an interest rate spike at any and all costs. For all the reasons you said. The second, and more perverse road, is to cause a crisis in the bond markets and an interest rate spike. This makes more sense to me than I want to believe. If we all agree that TPTB could give two shits about the average joe....then you let rates spike. That causes a full blown crisis and gives them cover to say the party os over. Forced cuts in spending come down hard and fast and it's actually theoretically possible to save the currency. You also get the fun side effects of a depression that lets the power grabs dwarf anything we have ever seen. Why is this such a non starter? Hyperinflation gets us there as well...but maybe they don't have the patience?

Like Kyle Bass said when you get to the point where you default or hyperinflate you don't have causes the other.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:28 | 3120898 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Yeah, I can see the second scenario you describe playing out eventually, and I agree with Kyle Bass' comment, but I don't think we're there yet.  Sadly, the ruse being pulled on the general population continues to be pretty damned effective - most people still seem to believe in the fundamental possibility of fairness of the system, and haven't really accepted the idea that it's now just an empty shell, rigged completely against them for the sole purpose of stripping them of whatever assets they've managed to accumulate over the years. 


Your second scenario is where they'll go when the general population finally starts to really get the fact that there is no winning for them. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:07 | 3121412 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

That's exactly right. Hammering bonds is the only way the Fed can get Washington to take notice and cut cut cut spending. In December the Fed gave the all-clear through 2015, apparently thinking the fiscal cliff negotiations would include some spending cuts. Didn't happen, so three weeks later they release discussions about taking away the punch bowl - they didn't have to do that.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:10 | 3120843 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

"But the action for the past month especially seems to have a lot of people questioning their commitment, which would be just what they need. "

 Well, they can go ahead and cover any old time now. Nine years later and this crap has made me completely nuts. The committment keeps getting harder every year.

Who the fuck is stupid enough to continue to play the paper market and get ass raped? Unbelieveable.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:57 | 3120814 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

lmao we need a "Bernanke Hitler freaking out in his bunker" youtube video based on this.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:20 | 3120871 Serfs Up
Serfs Up's picture

Hello?  IS this the price of gold?  This is India calling...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:44 | 3120609 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

I thought you were referring to the S&P until you said it had to be a "market", and we all know that the S&P really is a "racket".  So, what is the question again????

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:47 | 3120617 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Does anybody really know what time it is?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:49 | 3120632 flacon
flacon's picture

Time to get a watch... I mean an iPad?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:46 | 3120639 ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

Does anyone really care?


Edit: I thought we were gonna have a little Chicago/Chicago Transit Authority moment.  Guess not.  Yeah I'm old.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:03 | 3121092 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Saw them live... with Cetera and Kath!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:51 | 3120641 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Not exactly Saturday in the Park is it?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:46 | 3120789 blindman
Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:24 | 3120885's picture



Time Has Come Today

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:25 | 3121183 blindman
blindman's picture

that is the best version i've heard,
these guys were great !
Chambers Brothers - People Get Ready LIVE version
The Staple Singers-People Get Ready

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:50 | 3120612 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

Get your phyzz bitches.. something has to give

Speculation is that as Abe goes all out on JPY he has to monetize twice as many JGB and as a result ditch buying of TSY. This means bye bye only real forgein buyer of TSY and ultimately bye bye TSY

Gold and silver are under attack for reasons of national security and please hand over all your semi auto weapons!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:48 | 3120620 espirit
espirit's picture

Precious metals can also be interpreted as jacketed hollow points. Seems that there is a shortage and a price increase.

Just sayin'.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:48 | 3120624 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Look at that Nikkei go. Hyperinflation bitches! It's back in style with no consequences.  Come on Ben, bring us to the promised land!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:48 | 3120627 max bucket
max bucket's picture

Someone will know when to get out, but that someone's not me, so I've decided to always be out

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:48 | 3120628 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

Omen: Will A Deep Recession & Market Correction Occur in 2013?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:49 | 3120633 chump666
chump666's picture

I am just looking at the Nikkei right now and thinking of Die Hard.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:51 | 3120642 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

WTF with the Nikkei chump? They just rocket away to awesomeness?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:00 | 3120666 chump666
chump666's picture

I know.  Japan is a worry.  Fonz, these are my thoughts, I could be wrong or I could be right.  Japan's stock markets crash first, a month or so out.  Sets off the global market stock dump.

Compare Asian stocks to US markets, you'll chuckle, *shock/horror* but the Dow and S&P looks a little more reality based...just a little.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:03 | 3120679 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Their stock markets crash before their bond markets? Or I guess it does not even matter at this point. I am getting hammered tonight and we will get to the bottom of this.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:15 | 3120710 chump666
chump666's picture

Have fun.  Still recovering from New Year's, rum punch and tequila etc etc

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:10 | 3120697 chump666
Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:16 | 3120714 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is where I have to be to figure this stuff out.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:05 | 3120834 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

+1 for Crystal Method. Loved Tweekend. Name of the Game. Murder(You know it's hard)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:50 | 3120636 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Is it the chart with Bernanke's fucking pecker stuck in it?

Fuck these fucking elitist fucking pricks. Fucking die you fuckers.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:54 | 3120654 Pareto
Pareto's picture

+1 for "what did i win?" :)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:58 | 3120659 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

Here comes deflation I've been warning about. Gold, oil, copper, all going to be smacked down. I wouldn't be surprised if gold hits $1400/oz on stop loss selling sometime in next month or so.

Bonds I'm not sure about. Deflation should signal lower rates but at the same time the FED is signaling they may end buying sooner then expected.

USD I betting on strengthening both because repatriating reversal as mentioned and macro deflationary dollar destruction and saving/hoarding of dollars.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:06 | 3120674 akak
akak's picture

The arrival of actual "deflation" in our collapsing, purely fiat-based economy and financial system will be heralded by the triumphant return of Elvis on the back of a unicorn from a UFO, and not until.

But keep watching the skies!

"Next year in deflationary Jerusalem!"

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:18 | 3120723 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

As much as Id like to see elvis ass fucking a unicorn you may want to review our shadow banking system and then tell me we arent deflating.  TD has repeatedly emphazised the shaodow banking system as the single most important problem of the economy.  Its size (and subsequent deflation) is even too large for the FED to fight it.  The fed as been trying to tread water fighting it and I think recently its head has started to slip under.  battle isnt over yet...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:23 | 3120741 akak
akak's picture

Oh yes, history teaches us that exponentially-rising governmental overspending and debt have always led to an appreciating fiat currency!  Right? 

Um, hmmm, hasn't it actually always been the OTHER way around?

But oh, wait --- this time is different!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:52 | 3120806 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

If you actually studied the history you would see deflation almost always precedes hyperinflation.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:08 | 3120831 akak
akak's picture

You obviously don't have the slightest clue what "deflation" actually means --- or the slightest clue about monetary history either.

Show me the "deflation" that Mexico in the 1990s, or Argentina in 2001, or Zimbabwe in the early 2000s experienced prior to each of their hyperinflations or currency collapses, or shut the fuck up already about your laughable and nonexistent fiat currency 'deflation'.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:42 | 3120935 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

Wikipedia "In 1999, Argentina's GDP dropped 4% and the country entered a three-year long recession. Economic stability became economic stagnation (even deflation at times) and the economic measures taken did nothing to avert it."

Again it always starts with deflation. The money printing is a response to deflationary debt spiral. The out of control money printing led to hyper inflation.

Wow you must feel stupid.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:09 | 3121003 Deacon Frost
Deacon Frost's picture

If GittyUP is using Wikipedia as the authoritative source, with it's sanitized scrubed and biased version of history, then akak would be right in his anecdotal response.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:20 | 3121028 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

The money printing is a response to deflationary debt spiral. The out of control money printing led to hyper inflation.

This is not entirely correct: Hyperinflation is NOT a monetary phenomenon. HI is a psychological phenomenon (losing trust into a currency).

The loss of trust into the currency leads to a collapse in the bond market. The collapse in the bond market forces the national bank to buy the debt with new money. But now the new printing (contrary to prior printing) does not stabalize but only acelerates the loss of trust into the currency. Hyperinflation.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:31 | 3121046 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

yes see my post below about this.  I agree 100%. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:49 | 3120799 Haole
Haole's picture

Ha ha, deflation... Like pouring gasoline on a fire resulting in deflated flames.



Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:14 | 3120851 balz
balz's picture

I agree with you : we are in deflation. The FED can print 1 trillion if it wishes, it won't do it if people are paying off debts faster than that.

What some people here fail to understand is that when we are in deflation money raises in value and fiat is not money, but currency. Real money is gold and silver...

But first, there will be a flight to the fake safety of US dollar, then people will realize what is real money and gold/silver will explode.

So in the short term, yes you are right everything will drop. On the longer term gold/silver will raise beyond your wildest dreams.

That's how it will work out IMHO.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:21 | 3120875 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

who the fuck is paying off debts? Choking on them, maybe.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:24 | 3120886 balz
balz's picture

Defaulting makes the debt disappears as well... Still deflation. I mean: the whole shadow banking system is deflating like crazy. Old Ben will have to print a lot more than right now. It's a black hole.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:29 | 3120902 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

defaulting is much different than tightening your belt and doing the right thing. It mans you have reached the end of your rope.....Until that Hyundai commercial comes on telling you if you have $100 they can get you into a brand new Hyundai...even with no job!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:33 | 3120913 balz
balz's picture

Sure, but the result is the same: deflation. It doesn't mean its bad: it means we were overinflating fiat in numerous ways in the last decades and its now coming to an end.

Real assets will rise.

But first, the false fly to safety...

Anyway, we'll see.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:12 | 3121005 Lore
Lore's picture

I've been hearing and reading these kinds of pronouncements now for decades, and the sound bites are always the same, and yet somehow nothing seems to be acting like it should based on all the arm-waving soap-box theories. The only broad macro forecasts that make any sense are those that state "Things go down, and they go up, and fuck you."

I'll stick to geopolitics.  The Iranians have spearheaded the move away from the SWIFT system for a reason.  So like the guy who's trapped in a room with the light switched off, you keep moving in the direction of the light switch and hope to God it still turns the light back on, because if the basic laws of light switches no longer apply, then we ALL have a problem -- even the bankster psychopaths who work so hard to keep us in the dark.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:26 | 3121038 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

Well im glad someone here is well studied.  Most people dont understand the usual course is unsustainable debt -->  deflation --> money printing --> loss of fiat faith --> more money printing -->hyper inflation. 


Its not money printing directly that causes hyperinflation.  Money printing causes a loss in faith in the fiat currency.  The usualy response at this point is to print more which THEN causes hyperinflation as printing and loss in faith of fiat have a self reinforcing spiral.  The only way out then is to return to hard currency. 

So all the gold bugs on this site should be hoping for deflation to poke its head because we know the FED will have to print more.   The US is only at the start of this crisis, not the end.  Short to medium term we will face deflation.  If the FED decides to fight it with ever increasing money printing then we wil be in trouble.  Hopefully they are smart enough to let deflation take its course and let the debt be paid back slowly (and painfully may I add!)


Its interesting to watch Japan now because it seems they have come to the end of the deflation stage as the government has said enough!  They will print and print until they are no longer deflationary.  We will see if this leads to a loss in the Yen... only time will tell. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:28 | 3121040 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

The FED can print 1 trillion if it wishes, it won't do it if people are paying off debts faster than that.

What do you think is happening with the 1,4 Trillion of new debt of the government? Is it injected into the economy, or is it parked at the banks?

75% of this new debt has been monetized by the FED. In 2013 JPM estimates the FED will be monetizing 100% of new federal US debt. So every dollar the government spends more than it collects, is injected into the economy and has been freshly printed by the FED.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:53 | 3121070 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

Its very complivated but when a debt gets paid back to a bank, the money is destroyed.  The opposite of credit expanding and money multiplier effect to make things simple.  As money is being destroyed the FED is replacing that money.  TD has an amazing chart showing the shrinking shadow liabilities and matching it with expansion of FED blance sheet via traditional bank liabilites.

They are fighting a losing battle.  Deflation will win until we go japanese and say enough is enough and then really turn on the printers!  We are a while away from that.  Most likely we will deflate/inflate (stagnate) for a while holdings things together. 


Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:15 | 3121107 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

I will flog her indoors ass and then mine before i let go me silver and gold even if dem bandit racketeers manipulate the price down to 15/1000 (dis) respectively.

Will stack until i crap and am not even close to sticky bottom!!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:26 | 3121118 akak
akak's picture

Not to worry, WTFUD, he will get his own just rewards when he is sitting in fiat cash and US Trashuries, waiting for his mythical "deflation" and magically appreciating fiat currency to arrive, while both are trashed by fiscal and monetary reality.

Sic Semper Imbecilis

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 20:59 | 3120663 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

I think we'd be rather naive to think that the statements made by the Fed and released today were not simply contrived. Theatre. An act to help depress commodity markets as well as other currencies.

The bankers have been crushing metals for years just before NFP releases. Metal is their worst nightmare- 

I think this is all bullshit. One would have to be pretty naive to think that a bunch of Fed employees- never discuss shit amongst themselves except at their "public" meetings. 

I don't find any of this odd- rather I find it all quite premeditated and thus orchestrated- getting the results they intended. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:01 | 3120668 GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

maybe but dont fight the FED if your trading. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:02 | 3120675 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How do you not fight the fed if the fed has no fucking clue what it wants from month to month?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:01 | 3120670 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

well said lunaticfringe.....good luck to Liesman trying to make it sound like it's anything but completely fuckin insane.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:14 | 3120853 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

"The bankers have been crushing metals for years just before NFP releases. "

 Yeah, or on the day of the release, and then there's options expiration, and let's not forget opex for the miners - that's a guaranteed ass pounding.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:35 | 3120917 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I hear you - NFPs, Opex, January, May, July -oh, and also if it gets light out at all, let's not forget about that.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:24 | 3120887 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

Exactly. Again the fed shows just how many tricks it has up it's sleeve. If the markets stay afloat with the threat of removed QE, that changes the pace of things dramatically. I'll be surprised is we get through Q4 earnings unscathed, but remember they have access to information we can only dream of...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:23 | 3121427 Element
Element's picture

Exactly, FED minutes are preconceived chicken-feed ... you are the chicken, ... peck ... ... wait for it ...........NOW!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:01 | 3120673 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The first move is always wrong.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:37 | 3120924 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Yes, but everything's been jerking up and down like a fucking yo-yo so much, it's impossible now to remember what the first move was.  If TPTB weren't busy selling volatility into the basement, I'd think we might be in for a big crash.  As it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see the S&P shoot straight to 1700.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:41 | 3120933 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I agree Al. Indexes make all time highs.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:20 | 3121232 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture


I'm now basically 49/49 PM/SP500 with the remaining 2 in HighGradeWeed & Liquor.

ZeroHedge....with a smile.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:11 | 3120702 XOFnews
XOFnews's picture

Gold, guns and

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:15 | 3120713 10044
10044's picture


Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:13 | 3121104 BeerBrewer09
BeerBrewer09's picture

Food & Water

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 03:45 | 3121290 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Seems like they're out to pound AU and PB.  Especially's PB's tactical delivery devices with special 'capability', or devices with large 'reservoirs'.  Know what I mean?  This is not your parents' America any more.  If it ever was.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:13 | 3120707 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

I don't even understand the charts.  NO idea what's going on here.  It's all just betting games.  Nothing to do with real life...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:27 | 3120894 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

Lol a betting game yes, nothing to so with real life? Hmmm if you believed that why would you have an account at ZH? Just sayin...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 12:55 | 3122469 Wave-Tech
Wave-Tech's picture

In many respects, life is a series of gambles at varying degrees.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:16 | 3120715 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

 The bear in the China shop

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:22 | 3120738 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Bigger washout coming......

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:24 | 3120744 yogibear
yogibear's picture

So does Bernanke give up now and let it all fall apart or continue with Krugmans answer?

More than 50% chance he takes the Krugman route.

Bernanke PhD paper stated there wasn't enough stimulus. It's the Bernanke Solution as well.


Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:27 | 3120752 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Nice. Some one want to lend me some money?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:29 | 3120757 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

I see the terrorist govt/banker combo have been in the taking not giving mood.

It is really hard to believe your own goverment would do this to you and allow the citizens to be raped daily of any attempt of savings.

 I thought the USA had a Justice Dept.

Make me fucking puke.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:38 | 3120928 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

You thought there was a justice dept?  Where the fuck have you been?

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:32 | 3120760 realtick
realtick's picture

The Death Of The Dollar Meme Has Been Played To Death

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:40 | 3120772 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Silver peeking over the "cliff" at $26?... Just saying.... come on down we will be waiting for ya.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:18 | 3120864 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

I think some inventory change over going on at some shops... 2012 -> 2013 Eagles n such

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:44 | 3120943 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

$25 was my thought but I'm speculating.  I would burn some powder at $27.50 but not all of it.  Look at the premiums on silver dimes for sakes.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:43 | 3120784 magnetic
magnetic's picture

what is happening is wave 5 of C of an ABC correction.  This has nothing to do with fundamentals. This should end for gold in the mid 1620s or so and then all will be great.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 21:49 | 3120800 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Thanks goodness someone at least knows their alphabet!

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:28 | 3120896 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

I guess that's a shot at making sense of the completely non-sensical. Two days ago we closed above the 200 dma and it was a whole different chart picture.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:30 | 3120906 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

 What is happening is another bitch slap by the fiat ponzi wave masters...  and that has nothing to do with the fundementals.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:43 | 3120942 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

The funny thing is (since my sense is many of us actually do use fundamentals) is to be long ES as protection. Harr!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:23 | 3121426 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Silver is below their support level of 29.62 so we'll see if their 26.00 target is hit.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 12:51 | 3122443 Wave-Tech
Wave-Tech's picture

29.21 session low, then rally back toward session high.  Gap down will eventually fill at 30.45.  Until then,  it appears that lower lows are plausible later this month (18th) and into early Feb. (6th) ---

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 10:59 | 3121898 magnetic
magnetic's picture

what was that overnight low again?   oh yeah, 1626.  That makes 5 of C approximately equal to 1 of C and now we can move on.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:02 | 3120830 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Send in the clowns! (get your circus options ready)

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:39 | 3120929 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I could not agree more.  Silver slays if on wrong side.  But there is no price discovery mechanism anymore save physical.  Premiums are enormous on physical but the metal seems to be available.  For how long if this keeps up?  This might be a great BTFD.  I'll watch the overnight.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:30 | 3120904 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

You don't want to sell PMs here.  Not real ones anyway.  They are trying to Kaminsky the shit out of you.  The dollar is too trashed and they are printing too much money.  Maybe another 10 points and you can put on a paper trade too.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:40 | 3120932 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Agree.  Gold never moves this much at this time of the night.  Something's up.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:55 | 3120973 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Nothing is up. This is going to be a year that tests your resolve.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:14 | 3121013 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Every year tests my resolve.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:00 | 3120983 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Agreed.  We are going to get whacked paperwise but some assholes like us have no need to sell now do we?  Some assholes even need to buy MOAR. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 22:53 | 3120963 atomic180
atomic180's picture

PM's being trashed pre-CHINA QE...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:30 | 3121045 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

The house of Rothchild is back in the Gold and Silver smack down mode, may be thier last lie that the public will buy so load up, these bastrds are pure shit and have ruined the dollar.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 05:20 | 3121358 awakening
awakening's picture

'The house of Rothchild is back in the Gold and Silver smack down mode'

Good, let 'em lower the paper price of GLD and SLV so I can buy physical nice and cheap (when I'm not out looking for the stuff the hard way).

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:41 | 3121063 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Send me your bitcoins if you don't need/want them.  I am not offering anything in return if you do so.


Fri, 01/04/2013 - 09:47 | 3121647 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

I sent you exactly the number of bitcoins that your offer is worth. 

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 23:59 | 3121085 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 There's a reason why 97.3 % of zh readers outperform all hedge funds. A profound understanding of all things ekonomic.


 If you're one of the 2.7%, never mind.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:30 | 3121132 sablya
sablya's picture

Just when you thought it was safe to peek out from your bunker....silver down more than 3% - I suppose because the Fed is having an internal disagreement about endless QE.  Silver needs endless QE now just to keep from collapsing??  Things must be much worse than we suppose (if that is possible).

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 00:47 | 3121149 hankwil74
hankwil74's picture

Keep BTFDs and espousing the value of your your precious metals... I'd love to hear from some of you that drank the Kool-Aid around $1950 (or $36 for silver) and are now sucking on your longs

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 01:27 | 3121184 akak
akak's picture

Specious twaddle from another diehard paperbug.

Why don't you want to hear from the VASTLY greater number of people who bought silver at $10 or $12 or $15, or those who bought gold at $750 or $900 or $1200 instead of at your disingenuously cherry-picked top?

You are an ass.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 09:35 | 3121597 hankwil74
hankwil74's picture

I was busy buying Chipotle at $80 and Costco at $47 (you know, companies that actually create value) during the crash and AIG bonds yielding 15% when you were buying gold at $1830 because the world was coming to an end.  Keep BTFDs and let talk to me in 4 years when gold is trading $1375.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 07:38 | 3121436 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How does your Nasdaq 5,000 sandwich taste?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 02:07 | 3121221 Wave-Tech
Wave-Tech's picture

Silver is once again knocking upon a window threshold of opportunity...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 04:05 | 3121313 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Is there further potential for PM's to be 'driven' (maniputed) down?  Sure.  But not to the extent or duration that their fiat/tertiary paperware has a much bigger down-side exposure.  In a war of attrition, 6000 years of history has only one clear winner in the "PM vs. Fiat rumble in the Octagon":  PM!  Each time, every time.

So, let's keep our heads and shorts on.  And let's stop the bleating like frickin' sheep.  Unless you got caught betting Long on AU at > $1750 levels and can't hold your breath much longer.  In that case, keep bleating Bah, Ram, Ewe, Ben Damn You, bah, ram, ewe!

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