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Putting A Trillion Dollars Of Platinum In Perspective

Tyler Durden's picture




 

So you want a trillion dollar platinum coin? Ok: here are some facts:

  • Platinum has traditionally been the most valuable precious metal for one simple reason: it is rare.
  • It is so rare, that all the platinum ever mined could fit into a 25 cubic foot box.
  • The weight of that box comes out to just over 16 tons: this is how much platinum has been mined since the start of time.
  • A coin valued at $1 trillion and made out of platinum would, at today's price of $1557/ounce, weigh in at 642.3 million ounces.
  • 642.3 million ounces is also roughly 18 thousand tons, or about 1100 times more than all the platinum mined.

In other words, putting a coin that is worth $1 trillion in perspective to all the platinum ever mined, would look something like this:

Now, putting the sheer legal idiocy of the proposal aside, and CNBC's John Carney has written a good article about why it is indeed, legal idiocy, the simple reality is that for this retarded idea to work, there has to be some justifiability, or even remote credibility of the "legal tender" backing the value. Sadly as the chart above shows, there can't possibly be such justifiability.

Or can there?

Remember, as we said, the chart above is indicative of reality at today's prices. So if the Treasury plans on literally coming up with ridiculous laws, what is there to prevent it from merely coining a one ounce, or half an ounce, or one gram Platinum coin and assigning it the value of $1 trillion.

Sure it can. There is a problem with that, however: it is called currency devaluation and is also what FDR did with executive order 6102 when he confiscated America's gold - he basically devalued the US Dollar by well over half overnight (which, for all those curious, is the endgame in the current depression also, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it).

In other words, when one strips away with all the rhetoric, all the advocates of this insidiously stupid idea which gets a new life every time there is a debt ceiling crisis, are doing, is arguing for a massive devaluation of the dollar: because for the trillion dollar coin idea to be even remotely plausible, the price of Platinum, and by implication the entire precious metals complex, would have to go up by a factor of some 1,100.

It also means the value of the paper US currency would have to go down by 1,100.

Which, by the way, is precisely what all those who wish for the Fed to continue funding America's unprecedented spending binge, which can never be satisfied by taxes alone, are hoping for.

And of course, they will eventually get it.

 

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Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:14 | 3123170 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

We started covering the platinum seigniorage fiasco in June of 2011.  We thought it was a joke.  

 

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=14637

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:17 | 3123192 walküre
walküre's picture

that's one mfer of a coin

based on today's valuation or are they talking the REAL value?

gold at $50,000 oz is no longer a wet dream

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:27 | 3123219 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"All paper currencies are toilet paper, the dollar is simply two ply." - Thomas Caplin

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin and circulation." - John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined people." - Daniel Webster, speech in the American Senate, 1833
 

"Money is a new form of slavery, and is distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal, there is no human relation between master and slave." – Leo Tolstoy


"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'"  - Ayn Rand

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:28 | 3123268 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Hey,

You find a buyer, I'll find the tungsten.....errr.....I mean platinum.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:30 | 3123281 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

datz alotta joobux 4 a liddle Pt...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:50 | 3123397 flacon
flacon's picture

Platinum is too expensive. It should be made out of copper. No that is too expensive, make it out of plastic like Fisher Price:  http://tinyurl.com/a6l5cwt

Better yet, just make it out of paper, or even better just type in $1,000,000,000,000 into a computer. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:55 | 3123421 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Ya... platinum... hmmm... that's my turf guys...

There are about 6 millions ounces mined per year or around 180 tonnes.

I think the mistake made was in confusing 25 cubic feet with a 25 foot cube... but then again that's just my 2 cents...

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=global+annual+platinum+production+2012&um=...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:33 | 3123630 metastar
metastar's picture

It's a fiat platinum. It's worth 1T because they say so.

Fiscal prudence suggests conservation of platinum and

stamping of the coin onto a Bernank turd.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:53 | 3123946 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I predict as the Ponzi enters it's final stages, the financial gimmicks thought up and/or carried out by those still defending the system will become too absurd for rational minds to comment on. This "gem" of an idea is very near that threshold...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:56 | 3123968 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

You never want to go "full retard":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:33 | 3124060 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

The only idea worth considering is ending The Federal Reserve

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:03 | 3124226 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

Something is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it, no?  Who is willing to buy this coin for one Trillion dollars?  A Picasso painting (maybe equally ridiculous, according to Picasso himself) is worth millions because someone will buy it for millions.  Without a buyer the Picasso is worthless, unless you scrape off the paint -- then maybe you can sell the canvas to a boat builder to make sails with.  Who will value this coin at one Trillion dollars and buy it?  --  No entity other than the hooligans who created it.  Recall Bill Hicks' routine, "We're the hooligans... got to catch us."

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 05:55 | 3124865 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Guess if this flies, I am a trillionaire twice over.  I have a $100,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwe note and an ounce of platinum.  Problem is, I know the difference.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 09:33 | 3124970 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

PT is too common......only rhodium would work for this.

 

Then again.....maybe not.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 12:15 | 3125161 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

It appears that none of you are "getting it", which is surprising as normally this is a liberty loving, intelligent crowd.

The idea is that it is FIAT, but it is fiat issued by our own government, debt free.  The value is whatever the government assigns to it, not what the materials are worth.  Note that it is always this way or the coins get smelted (gold eagles don't trade at their face value).

So, the government issues a coin made out of whatever, deposits it with the FED and issues dollars debt free.  Are you catching on yet?  This is in fact a work around the banker cartel.

Yes, I know...  In a perfect world all money would be backed by a tangible good.  Well, think about the actual supply of gold, and how many dollars are in existence.  Backing the dollar with gold would cause a huge depression as a lack of supply of the metal.  Oh yes, sure you could revalue, but that also would lead to problems.

Maybe what we really need is a hybrid, at least in the near term.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:23 | 3125763 auric1234
auric1234's picture

FIAT coins would be affected by counterfeit just like FIAT paper notes.

How long until the Chinese pick up and flood the US with thousands of 1T platinum coins?

 

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 12:25 | 3125190 trav777
trav777's picture

iridium is rarer.

Or could use Cf252.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:38 | 3124293 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

@METASTAR: You are correct! They can take ANY platinum coin of ANY weight and print one Trillion on it and it will be perfectly legal.

Tyler didn't get it (not the first time). Its got nothing to do with the market value of Platinum. Just the coin has to be made of Platinum. That's all...!

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 07:01 | 3124896 Element
Element's picture

</I gave up and deleted it>

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 12:13 | 3125173 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

I stand corrected, there are a few of us that get it.  See my post above....

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 08:15 | 3124960 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

An no Unleaded cars will ever be made again.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:21 | 3123819 Seb
Seb's picture

On the link provided in the article:

http://www.gold-traders.co.uk/blog/interesting-facts-about-platinum/

there are two contradicting facts:

1. "The annual production of Platinum is about 130 tonnes."

2. "All of the Platinum ever mined [...] would weigh over 16 tons."

(and in the context, by "over 16 tons" it is implied under 17 tones, not any number bigger than 16).

 

If the volume of 7,6 cubic meters is correct, then the weight of all the platinum ever mined would be around 160 t. Still not consistent with 130 t annual production.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:26 | 3124272 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

Excactly... it's 200 Tonnes per year. This ZH-article is not well founded.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:51 | 3124319 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I never thought I would say this; Tyler FAILED with this article. The amount stamped on the coin has nothing to do with the metal. Just as if you buy a Double Eagle gold coin. The face value has no real representation of it's true market value. The economic facts behind this principal go both ways.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 23:43 | 3124594 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You can't represent a trillion dollars of ACTUAL debt with a coin worth diddly shit regardless of whatever the fuck one scribes on the surface.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 04:00 | 3124807 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

My guess:

FED and ECB will make a Debt Jubilee in a couple of years, maybe earlier. During the next years they are going to buy - let's say - half of "their" goverment bonds and then "out of the sudden" will postpone these liabilities interest-free for 100 years. They can't clear the debt, hence that meant they had to work along with negative equity (which actually wouldn't disturb a true neo-keynsian, would it?).

Indirectly that means foreign debtors will be expropriated (as well as domestic savers) and US-Dollar and Euro should loose purchasing power for foreign goods tremendously.

From that point on my vision becomes obscured ;-) , but that could certainly ignite inflation, followed by new over-indebtness and another set of unconventional measurments. Asia is going to take over. It'll take some time, but finially we have got to share wealth and power.

Any ideas besides going to war? 

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 06:01 | 3124867 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Won't happen.  The last time someone who was owed a debt offered a Jubilee, Moses was the keynote speaker. /sarc

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 11:14 | 3125108 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

@zhandax"Nobody wants to build a wall"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjgKKOdVRx4

</sarc>

However, none of the big player have started to sell US-Dollar or Treasuries in large amounts so far. China, Germany, Switzerland, and so forth are afraid of loosing their markets. And Japan's debt almost reaches 250% GDP - we will see how long that is going to last.

Interesting: Japan supposely faces deflation for 20 years now - but 6 of the wolrd most expensive cities are japanese. "Deflation" - suuuure. 

 

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:22 | 3126089 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Well then type it up on a computer screen and hand it to the Fed Res. Is this not how they create it? It's not like this would screw over the sovereign debt holders. We are talking about the Fed here. Money is a creation. The Fed is the magician. Open your eyes bro! Or is this Mr. Bernake I'm speaking with?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:05 | 3123426 DoChenRollingBearing
Sat, 01/05/2013 - 09:37 | 3125010 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

OK....I read it. It's batshit crazy......seriously.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:14 | 3123404 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

But while we are on the topic of Platinum can I just take a minute or two of your time to inform you that about 70% or so of global output comes from the politically 'stable' and completely 'non-corrupt' country of South Africa?

The current production cost of extraction for many of the biggest miners exceeds $1,400 or close to the existing market price...

And I don't expect wages or energy or explosives costs to be decreasing any time soon.

Oh... Did I mention it's a STRATEGIC metal?

Impala Platinum (IMPUY.PK) is one of the world's largest producers of platinum. On pg.12 here, they list their platinum cost-per-ounce at $1,461 (10,994 ZAR at 7.521 ZAR per USD). On pg. 6, they list their price-received-per-ounce platinum at $1673.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:18 | 3123554 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Yet Gold costs more to own?!?!?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:40 | 3123645 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

And gold production costs are often under $300 an ounce for many of the big miners... and if you use gold rather that platinum in your F-35 jet turbine blades they will simply melt away.

But then again we can't afford wars right now anyway right?

(Excluding depletion allowances of course... )

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:03 | 3123755 knukles
knukles's picture

Silly, gold only costs $5 to get out of the ground and whole asteroids are made of gold.
Sheeeesh!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:05 | 3123997 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Don't forget all that gold in the ocean.  It's just out there, floating.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 21:41 | 3124403 unrulian
unrulian's picture

and in the rivers...on the bottom...as a result of shitty boats

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 19:53 | 3124091 prains
prains's picture

Is that the trillion dollar dildo the usa has been fucking the rest of the world with for the last 100 years??????

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 21:25 | 3124368 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

So, that's where we invade next?

"R2P... we must protect the miners. I am ordering an invasion."

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3123324 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

The Webster quote is good - do you have an authoritative source for it?

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 06:32 | 3124888 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

wow that guy in 1833 sure got his timming right .
They always inflated and looks like they always will.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:34 | 3123300 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Let's just go ahead and mint eight "Ningi's" or one "Pu" and be done with it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/gallery/images/340/ningi.jpg

[I want the rubber contract on that...]

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:50 | 3123949 Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

According to Wikipedia all of the gold ever mined throughout history has a value of about $10 trillion (and that's at $1900/oz) so the US Debt now handily exceeds the value of all gold and platinum ever mined, ever.

I feel better already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:35 | 3123309 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The US Teasury could put out the call to "buy any and all gold" for an arbitrarily high figure, let's say $10,000 / oz.  They would get lots of sellers (maybe a little of mine, but not much!), but they would also have put a bottom in on the price of physical gold.  They would get enough to be able to pay down a LOT of the debt...

Freegold soon follows.  Then the gold that Treasury got would more than easily be able to pay down all the rest of our national debt.

Who wins?  Holders of physical gold.

Who loses?  Anyone who missed the Gold Train...  Also, anyone who believes current US Government promises.  Does ANYONE here believe our government?  Huh?  Not even EatRand or IvyLeagueMike I would venture...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:45 | 3123369 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Of course I believe my government. Other than fostering delusion, why would I want to lie to myself?

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:45 | 3123373 walküre
walküre's picture

As price goes up, the motivation to sell goes down. Those holding physical pms are not enticed to sell and convert. Why would they? To buy trinkets? The average gold investor has typically enough liquidity to cover payments on basic necessities. The real price won't be discovered on the Comex board. Comex will become obsolete when people are willing to convert tens of thousands in worthless paper for gold at black market sales. That's how it's going down my friend. Lessons learned from USSR.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 06:36 | 3124891 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

ok , say that is the way it's going down.
The fall of the USSR took decades.

for WHEN is your black market thesis ? When will COMEX become obsolete ?
2013 or 2033?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:46 | 3123376 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

A classic comment on FOFOA

I can see where playing the FED a patsy has some political value, and there has been some movement in the direction of that "set up", but the US vs. the BIS and all it's CBs seems like a desperation senario almost equal to dollar hyperinflation.

The Fed and its gold certificates from the Treasury, the Treasury and its allegiance to the IMF, the ESF playing derivative counterparty black ops behind it all.

What a cluster ...

No doubt, all "rules of engagment" will be broken as the paper burns.

I think this is where we come full circle back to dollar hyperinflation as the one and only outcome that makes any sense from a standpoint of likelihood.

The dollar and gold will rise together toward the end (has this already happened?) and then the paper gold market will crash to dirt-zero.

That is the stunner, when people suddenly realize that the dollar denominated "price" of gold they've been chasing is not based on gold at all, but rather a synthetic derivative, 199 parts paper and 1 part gold (some will say 100:1 but I tend to agree with J.S. Kim).

It will be easy to understand then how a .5% gold / 99.5% paper derivative burns with the rest of the paper, you just cash out with a loaf of ass-wipes and a salt-grain of metal.
Go COMEX! Go LBMA!

But today, most see this derivative as being pegged 1:1 to physical.

Because ... it is.

I mean, think about it. Gold dealers will release today, in trade for paper currency, real physical gold on a 1:1 relationship (plus marginal premium) to a worthless hybrid used to obfuscate the dollars strength in oil, while masking the true value of gold, in order to vaidate the baseless dollar, and create a currency trading arena, within that scope, to create false volatility which produces paper gains and losses based on bets of future volatility.

That will be the paradigm shift of a millenium, considering that not one man in a million truly understands the half of it.

At least the "surplus population" will be dealt with as the lemmings leap en masse onto concrete and asphalt.

Christ, I hope they don't put me on cleanup duty.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:56 | 3123439 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, Spitzer, I should have mentioned that I first read that idea from FOFOA.

+ $55,000!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:42 | 3123649 unununium
unununium's picture

There will be hyperinflation of course, and all dollar holders will suffer from it.

The only question is who will benefit from creating and spending those phony nominal bux.

When the Fed prints, the Fed chooses who benefits.  As it always has.

When the US Treasury mints, the US government chooses who benefits.

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:48 | 3123687 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The commenter is not just talking about paper currency. He is talking about paper gold peddled by the bullion banks.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:06 | 3124002 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

.

"At least the "surplus population" will be dealt with as the lemmings leap en masse onto concrete and asphalt."

FOFOA thinks the entittled masses will simply jump out the window when the cookie jar is removed.

Really?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:45 | 3123375 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

They don't want to make a coin with a trillion dollars worth of platinum.  It's a dollars worth of platinum with a trillion dollar face value.  It's a joke, if they were serious they would give it 16 trillion value and wipe out the entire debt with magic.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:08 | 3123425 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Tyler, annual production of platinum is about 133 metric tons

http://www.amerigold.com/why_platinum/

and estimated reserves total is more than 30,000 tons

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/pt.htm

The link you're pointing to refers to correct annual production but incorrect reserves total.

Or Friday humor?..

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 06:38 | 3124892 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

some of them are just tired..

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:46 | 3123634 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Tyler you have a HUGE problem with this article. 

Following the link shows two VERY contradictory facts in that one article that is your source.  

 

  • The annual production of Platinum is about 130 tonnes.  While this seems like a substantial number, it pales in comparison when you realize that nearly 260 tonnes of steel are used in U.S. manufacturing operations daily.
  • All of the Platinum ever mined would barely fill a 25 cubic foot (7.6 cubic meter) box. The block would weigh over 16 tons.

 

Also consider that 7.6 cubic meters of Pt would be MUCH more than 16 tons ... 

  • 7.6 m3 
  • 7600000 cm3
  • 21.09 density of Pt 
  • 160,284,000 grams
  • 160,284   kg 
  • 160.284   metric ton

 

So now you have a complete miss on the weight and still have the two article issues.   

Also consider the relative abundances of the various PM's in the Earth's crust 

 

  • Silver 7.9×10-6%
  • Platinum 3.7×10-6%
  • Palladium 6.3×10-7%
  • Gold 3.1×10-7%
  • Rhodium 7.0×10-8% 
  • [There are others that are even more rare and incredibly underpriced, but I'm not telling here] ;) 

 

Platinum is not THAT rare it's just a bitch to get to (deep mines) 

The ironic part is that in the asteroids and meteors platinum is MUCH more common than silver or gold.   

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:05 | 3123767 knukles
knukles's picture

Silly, it's abiotic!
Sheeesh!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:08 | 3123781 foxenburg
foxenburg's picture

 when you realize that nearly 260 tonnes of steel are used in U.S. manufacturing operations daily.

 

funny, you'd think it would be more than that.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 19:11 | 3124107 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

we don't make much anymore but fiat debt

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:11 | 3124013 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

No, when SHTF you can make a trillion $US coin with the copper.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:07 | 3123491 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

We need the Fukushima enriched melted core TM uranium+PU coin. Not only to solve the US debt but solve the JP debt as well! We need the coin to be highly radioactive and be carried by the chairman of the FED in his pocket at all times, to keep it secure. When the chairman gets replaced, or expires, as in the case of the senile Greenspan, the coin stays with the new one!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:46 | 3123929 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

And everyone gives me a hard time about bitcoin. At least we're not looking to make a $1 TRILLION coin to solve debt problems.

I really hope they do it, please, devalue the hell out of the dollar. I dare them.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 19:03 | 3124095 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

I can't believe I have to do this...

Platinum bitchez!

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 00:35 | 3124660 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

"sixteen tons, and whatya get,

  another day older and

  deeper in debt"   Tennessee Ernie Ford, singing an old coal mine hymn, "Sixteen Tons". Damn if that doesn't sound familiar...................

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:14 | 3123173 SheepRevolution
SheepRevolution's picture

Shit doesn't even fit on my computer screen...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:17 | 3123196 IvyMike
IvyMike's picture

I have a screen stretcher. Well, it works with fences.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:31 | 3123288 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You can market that along side my Bucket O' Steam.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:15 | 3123180 walküre
walküre's picture

yeah, now we're talking

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:21 | 3123186 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Global GDP - approx $75 trillion.

Make 1 coin = $75 trillion.

That 1 coin = Global IMF currency.

Use a variant of BitCoin to mark-to-mark all currencies to that coin.

Phase out all other currencies to switch to the GIMF.

Each unit of currency is a share of a GIMF. Or a SOGIMF.

 

Economics - solved!

 

Then work on where you're getting the other 2 world's worth of commodities you're currently using from. People are asteroid hunting, I've heard.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:19 | 3123188 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Maybe a platinum clad coin would be more in keeping with current monetary policy?

Wonder what would happen if you tried to buy a taco at Taco Bell with it?  Here is how they handle the $50 gold eagle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef0VG1WEP10

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:35 | 3123311 uncle_vito
uncle_vito's picture

She should have given him $49.01 back to him and kept it.   He should be thankful she gave it back.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:00 | 3123466 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

No spot in the drawer for it can't accept it for payment.  99% of clerks would have done the same thing.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:51 | 3124321 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I just watched the video for the 1st time.  The video is only a year old and the coin was worth $1400 dollars.  Today the same coin is at least worth $250 dollars more, that's 250 more tacos, who said you can eat gold?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 20:57 | 3124328 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Just think of all the tacos you could buy with the $1 trillion dollar platinum coin! 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:46 | 3123190 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Tyler, the Treasury hasn't minted any coins since 1964 that had equivalent material value.  For what it's worth, they could use tungsten or cadmium and call it what they want, although I shouldn't give them any ideas.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:45 | 3123672 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Actually no, I believe only Platimun coins are allowed to be minted at the Treasury's discretion.  Others need an act of Congress.  Saw that elsewhere.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 13:02 | 3125248 KansasCrude
KansasCrude's picture

Actually the pre 1982 penny as well as the nickel have met the metal value equal to or greater than its intrinsic value threshold. 

Also anybody seeing Tulving is totally out of Pre 64 silver coin...OFF their offer sheet....first time I have ever seen that in my years of monitoring it.  Premiums to purchase positve,  Even Northwest Territorial Mint has positive premiums.....they usually lag on their offers.  To those always crying where is the shortage uh   HELLO!

Gold offerings getting skinny too if they didn't have eagles to offer they would be about out with the exception of Canadian and Aussie plus a few bars. 

http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:18 | 3123191 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"It also means the value of the paper US currency would have to go down by 1,100".

 

I wish it would hurry it's ass up. I look forward to paying off my mortgage with a silver Eagle.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:20 | 3123212 walküre
walküre's picture

hey, at least it's out there and they're talking about it .. everyone knows that only a massive revaluation is able to right the ship

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:31 | 3123285 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Can one of y'all point me to a link on this original story?   I missed it and am totally confused by what all this trillion dollar coin talk is about.

Thx.

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:49 | 3123396 walküre
walküre's picture

I found this story on Spiegel.de in Germany this morning. If it made it to Spiegel, it's pretty much verified to be true.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/schuldengrenze-eine-billion-do...

The comment section is funny. Germans calling the whole US ponzi a fiasco already. See, nobody believes the crap from DC anymore. Propaganda only works when it has credibility. The fate of the USSR was sealed when their propaganda efforts failed.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:55 | 3123437 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Thanks.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:03 | 3123475 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Nice catch.

All it takes is for about 5% of the population to figure out (not just 'know'... but understand and appreciate) the scam and it is all over in a giant stampede to the exits.

That time is drawing nearer each day...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:08 | 3123779 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Jakob Augstein, "Der Spiegel" columnist and son of "Der Spiegel" founder Rudolf Augstein nominated No 9 of the world's worst anti-semites by the Wiesenthal Center.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/12/28/3115561/muslim-brotherhood-to...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:38 | 3123903 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Do they have a list of the world's best anti-semites too?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:47 | 3128237 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

"Do they have a list of the world's best anti-semites too?"

I found it here, sort of: http://www.masada2000.org/list-TUVWXYZ.html 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:47 | 3123939 walküre
walküre's picture

Woof woof!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:45 | 3123371 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

You got that right, Doc.  That's been my plan too.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:17 | 3123197 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture

The coin should have Snookie on one side and Eddie Murphy's impersonation of Buckwheat on the other.  That would make it a collectable.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:21 | 3123230 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

No, Obama's mug should be on the front with a big, shit eating grin.  The back should just have the words, "Hope, Change and Forward!"

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:11 | 3123400 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

I put Obama's mug on this currency...accomplishes the same thing as the Platinum $1 Trillion coin...

 

www.barackazillion.com "The Only Currency You Ever Need" "As Good As Gold" It even has a picture of Fort Knox on it! (and the only one with a smiling President on it!)

 

I do it to mock of course... and unlike the Liberty Coin guy, it's legal to print your own money. I had www.mittazillion.com just in case...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 21:17 | 3124355 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I bet you could pass them in the hood.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:48 | 3123389 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Just put Barry and Michelle on it. Same thing

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:58 | 3123457 BullsNBeers
BullsNBeers's picture

Thanks. I just had to explain to 4 of my coworkers why I just started cracking up at my desk.

Cheers.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:17 | 3123199 Bazinga
Bazinga's picture

We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the US public believes is false. 
–William J. Casey, 1981 – Director of Central Intelligence from 1981 to 1987

Hopefully this platinum coin "idea" won't pick up too much steam.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:27 | 3123256 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It will be interesting to see if my wife mentions it as it filters through her idiot friends facebook pages. Last month I got to hear her opinion on the "fiscal cliff."

Well, until I started yelling, "Stop that! It's all fake!" over the top of her conventional ignorance.

Sadly, many of our friends read HuffPo and Slate, so I know it's only a matter of time.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:33 | 3124062 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

HuffPo is likely one of the Internet's easiest places to troll.

1) Go to HuffPo

2) Include the text "Tea Party" in a comment.

3) ?????????

4) FIREWORKS!

 

In all seriousness, HuffPo users are an interesting creature to study. I'd characterize them as people who haven't figured out that the old "government vs. big business" and "Democrat vs. Republican" lines are a false dichotomy. They know "something's wrong," but haven't figured out what it is, so the kneejerk response is to blame The Other PartyTM.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 21:13 | 3124350 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, (sigh), my wife, a liberal school marm, just brought this up.

She voted for ophone, so of course she thought it was a good idea.

She hid this knowledge from me before we got hitched.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:20 | 3123200 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Which, by the way, is precisely what all those who wish for the Fed to continue funding America's unprecedented spending binge, which can never be satisfied by taxes alone, are hoping for.

There in lies the crux of the argument for this and all other stupid ideas that circle about-- how is the trillion dollar coin any different from what the fed is doing?  It's just replacing one illusion with another.

Edit: Moreover, how is this any different than modern financial engineering and all the leverage in the system?

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:28 | 3123264 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It's platinum, DUH!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:21 | 3124035 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Paper money does not accrue seigniorage.  Coins are not Federal Reserve notes.  That's the fundamental basis for this idea.  I realize it's a joke, but accrual accounting is no joke when it is GAAP. 

www.tradewithdave.com

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:18 | 3123201 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

$1.7 mill an ounce?  Nice!!!!!!  Looks like I'm going shopping for some Congressmen after this passes.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:39 | 3124067 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

Until you discover that you now need $1 mil to shop for groceries.

 

As an aside, I am trying to imagine right now, what it would be like if Chinese officials demand to be paid for their treasuries, and we mail them a 1 ounce coin.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:18 | 3123205 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

You seem caught up in melt value vs. face value. What is the intrinsic value of a $100 bill and how is that different from a $1 bill? Sure such an act would increase money supply and thereby decrease the value of our currency, but it has nothing to do with the melt value.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:20 | 3123217 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

BTW, I do NOT support this action, but just think that the seigniorage issue has been settled already with fiat.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:25 | 3123249 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

How do you figure? If I go to the bank in 2000 and give them an ounce of gold and they give me fiat, it's going to cost me a lot more fiat to buy that ounce of gold back today.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:29 | 3123276 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

I believe a bank would give you the face value of that Eagle ($50) while a "we buy gold" might give you $.90 on the dollar.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:30 | 3123278 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

Let's print a $5T coin and send it to China for their bonds, then let them try to cash it ;-)

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:32 | 3123292 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well I don't deal with a bank of course but the point is fiat doesn't maintain it's buying power so I don't get how you are figuring that the seignorage question is settled with fiat.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3123322 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

Dr. E, whether it maintains value is irrelevant. The simple point is that seigniorage enables the government to put any value on the coin. What happens to its value and the value of the paper currency in the system is not their concern.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:41 | 3123345 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I got you. I was thinking along the lines of buying power, not the cost of printing..or minting. Thnx.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:32 | 3123290 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Gold coins don't circulate. This example is no different than a dime which is really only worth two cents.

Honestly, all Tyler's chart shows is the size of the future devaluation possible before it too is under valued (like the nickel). In other words, a central bankster's wet dream.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3123328 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

Gresham's Law: Good money drives out bad.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:47 | 3123680 unununium
unununium's picture

You got that backwards or are using a new form of sarcasm I am not familiar with.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:24 | 3124043 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

In a near zero friction environment (say using Square on you Iphone at Starbucks) Gresham's law reverses.  Just sayin'...

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:47 | 3123385 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

That's funny! I have a bunch of gold French 20 franc Napoleons that have definitely been in circulation. Maybe you ment to say "gold coins no longer circulate".

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:20 | 3123213 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Is that 642.3 million ounces troy or avoirdupois?   /sarc

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:35 | 3123310 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Who cares?  It's $16 Tril as soon as it's secured in a Fort Knox-like environment with the transparency of being buried at sea at 2 am with no witnesses.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:37 | 3123317 XitSam
XitSam's picture

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?

Another day older and deeper in debt.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:49 | 3123387 tickhound
tickhound's picture

We're all cynical but the fact the idea has any traction suggests fiat has lost, and will continue to lose, credibility... despite all the force.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:54 | 3123424 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Meanwhile, Timmah gets the Nobel Memorial Prize for Economics.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:20 | 3123216 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Maybe we can get the muslim a set of titanium golf clubs. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:08 | 3123505 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Likely he already has them.

Hey, you didn't pay for that!  Oh, wait...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:23 | 3123237 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Okay that kinda missed the point.

None of this has anything to do with the actual value of anything made of anything else for any purpose except as a means to keep the Titanic afloat for another millisecond because every millisecond is worth about $1M in market trades enriching the top 1%.

Pretending it means anything else is just playing into their hands.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:35 | 3123308 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Actually, I think this article makes the very point you've laid out, in the form of Reductio ad Absurdum.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:42 | 3123358 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Then maybe it's before noon on Friday and I haven't had nearly enough coffee yet, but it's too soon to have started with the LSD and shrooms, and until one or the other hits nothing I hear or read is making one bit of sense so far.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:55 | 3123435 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Might I recommend Everclear? Does wonders on those rusty synapses.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:25 | 3123592 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Dilute the Everclear a little with absinthe...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:24 | 3123244 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

Fucker won't fit in my pocket. And I can't get change at the store. But I'm richer then a Rothschild. Bullish

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:25 | 3123248 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

ARE WE REACHING THE TIPPING POINT? ALMOST ALL FOMC MEMBERS SAW POTENTIAL QE COSTS AS INCREASING. 1994-LIKE SURPRISING TIGHTENING IMMINENT? 

http://investmentwatchblog.com/are-we-reaching-the-tipping-point-almost-...

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:39 | 3123331 walküre
walküre's picture

the 1% tipping point will unleash the 99% tipping point

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:46 | 3123377 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

The 99% are easy to manage. The oligarchs can just launch another round of terrorist alerts, or send an envelope containing white powder to a Fed Reserve bank somewhere, or encourage the OWS people to come back and battle with police.

The 99% are easy to manage because they really do fear change. That won't change soon.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 16:15 | 3123541 walküre
walküre's picture

not in our lifetime .. we're 10 years after 9/11 and had 10 years to figure out how their shit works.

gig - up

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:27 | 3123254 Banksters
Banksters's picture

And to think, the federal reserve has printed/data entered about 3 times that amount, without getting a callous on their milky white hands.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:28 | 3123263 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

They would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:30 | 3123277 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

And to think I almost swore off infographics for a New Year resolution.

(They were too depressing last year.)

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:30 | 3123282 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

My question is: will the bond vigilantes hold the system accountable?  I don't think so!  They will bury their heads in the sand knowing full well if they call out the farce they will create their own doom...no these guys are all in cahoots in a rigged game.  The system won't crash, but the little people will be robbed through inflaton whaile their smiling president brags abot taxing the rich to help them.  What a clusterfuck...the criminals are running the government.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:38 | 3123326 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Since 1971... er...

make that 1932... er...

make that 1910... er...

...

Infinite regression, ftw! (or should I say "loss")

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:40 | 3123338 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Oh, it is a first class cluster.  But I think each of the bond vigilantes thinks that when the time comes, he will be the first one out. 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:50 | 3123948 walküre
walküre's picture

always remember .. there's no honor among thieves

they don't trust each other

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 00:53 | 3124682 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Let's say you are card carrying member of the banksterscum elite....

Which would you prefer?

A tortuously long slow bleed as everything is done to prevent the game from stopping (ie rates increasing)....driving those 99% to REALLY hate you and leave the USA (your golden goose) in a trail of tears and goldengoose shit....possibly bringing the entire PLAN to a screeching halt.

 

Or...

 

A sudden debt crisis....manufactured at your pleasure of course....where the rates spike and tear the fucking heads off all those fucking peasants....allowing you to commence the final stages of wealth transfer from working class to GOD'S CHOSEN ONES.

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:40 | 3123286 Cdad
Cdad's picture

The stupidity and desperation of the Overlord class...becomes more breathtaking every singe day.

So...sell gold and silver for a sixth consecutive week...with clowns such as these in charge?  Please advise...

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 00:55 | 3124685 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

49/49 PMs/SP500

with the other 2% in high grade cannabis and liquor....

ZeroHedge with a Smile!

 

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:31 | 3123287 mudduck
mudduck's picture

Why not just decree that dirt is now money so we can all be rich and no one will ever have to work or want for any thing ever again. Oh, and make sickness illegal so we can all be healthy. And make it manditory that every one has to keep one eye closed and squint with the other when one looks at another person so that there are no more ugly people. And although my fecal matter smells like sugar cookies, I think the government should do something to make everyone elses crap smell better.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:32 | 3123293 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Idiots.

You Can't EAT Platinum.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:33 | 3123302 Wanton1
Wanton1's picture

The rot goes deep.

 

Harry Hopkins ordered refined uranium and atomic bomb research documentation shipped to Russia in 1943.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:40 | 3123339 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Hey now, Uncle Joe was cool! Him and FDR were BFF!

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 21:07 | 3124337 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, sad to say, Harry was a Soviet Agent. He was close to FDR.

Of course, today, the Harry guy is FDR.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 15:53 | 3123416 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

I profess to know nothing about Harry Hopkins or his purported atomic espionage.  That said, it's easy to slander the dead.

http://www.archive.org/stream/sovietatomicespi1951unit#page/190/mode/2up

http://www.archive.org/stream/sovietatomicespi1951unit#page/184/mode/2up

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