• Sprott Money
    05/06/2016 - 06:03
    The US, in its own decline, is showing this same self-destructive tendency. The worse things get, the greater the inclination of the citizenry to say, “Carry on, everything’s fine.”

Sprott And Biderman On Paper Vs. Physical Gold

Tyler Durden's picture


With gold prices dropping (notably divergent from the ever expanding global central bank balance sheets) but record-breaking levels of physical gold being purchased, we continue to reflect on the other 'Great Rotation' that we suspect is occurring as the New Year begins - that from paper gold to physical gold. Who better to discuss the nuances of this dilemma than Eric Sprott as he outlines to TrimTabs' Charles Biderman the relative strengths and weaknesses of ETFs like GLD and SLV, physical-based ETFs such as PHYS and PSLV, and physical holdings themselves. While the new meme is that the Fed may be considering pulling back (on its 'flow') sooner than expected, reality is far different (as Bill Gross recently agreed with us) and that fact makes the following brief clip even more compelling.


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Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:42 | 3125809 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i will admit, i do not understand why gold and silver are dropping these past few weeks ?????

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:51 | 3125831 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

how much do you value gold and silver? act accordingly

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:37 | 3125908 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

heres my favorite cnbc quote of the week

we've had a trickle out of the bond market, just a trickle, NOT a FLOOD    Bob Pisani

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:42 | 3126156 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Here's a few Schiffmeister quotes...


Sun, 01/06/2013 - 08:05 | 3126771 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



i will admit, i do not understand why gold and silver are dropping these past few weeks ?????


Mine isn't....it's still in my sock drawer. So how much cheap physical gold were you able to buy these past few weeks ?????


Be honest......did you even try?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:02 | 3127339 HedgeHammer
HedgeHammer's picture

Can someone explain to me why we are not talking about the real issue of today. I admire many of you ZH'rs for your knowledge and relativley good understanding when it comes to trading.

However when it comes to understanding the truth and reality of where our money problems stem from most all of you fall short. I hear and read it all the time. END THE FED END THE FED, but that is only half of the solution. Until the American people take back control of printing and issuing their own [DEBT FREE] currency ending the FED will do nothing but cause chaos and another chance for the usurpurs aka banskters to weasel their way back into control of our money.

Many O POTUS' have been assagnited or a failed attempt on several ocassions in our history.

Until everyone understands what a fraud we have been sucked into and understands that every problem we have had up to this very point is all due to the fact that we as Americans let congress give the power to mint money to the FED. HFT is nothing more then a product of what I  have just spoke to. Including the so call business cycle which is nothing more then the 'Money Changers' who increase and then contract the money supply. Know your history and learn from it and then educate others and only after we have clarity can we even begin to fix this problem.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:50 | 3125926 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture

Give these guys "squawk on the street" and roll those other bums to the dumpster. That would be some "fair and balance rising above" news.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:08 | 3125956 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

There were multiple CNBS quotes this week piling on the gold pullback as though it were a "collapse" ... these descriptions of the gold manipulation are NO accident and are coordinated, scripted attacks, designed for maximum effect. It should be a signal just what a threat PMs are to the "game"... enjoy the drama......nature has here own timeline and consequences......IF we survive

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 22:33 | 3126329 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

There seem to be two schools of thought.  a) That debasement is all part of the grand plan for world domination by banker demigods, who always win and always will win.  Or b) that the current situation has been in the making since medieval times, when the Catholic Church changed its definition of usury, ushering in fraction reserve and central banking to the Western world.  Sure there have been lots of regional collapses since then, always well-played by the bankers.  Today IS different.  This is the end of power wielded by the old banking family dynasties....and they are not sleeping well. 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 11:56 | 3126981 ITrustMyGut
ITrustMyGut's picture

we Hope that is whats going on.. there is some evidence.. but it's hard to not know.. the overwhelming history.. is the Oligarchs always win...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 03:30 | 3126678 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

"Snag 'em and Bag 'em"

Every time the price is right. Very soon they'll be much harder to secure...

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:20 | 3125989 SILVERGEDDON

Go try buying Morgans or Liberty's for melt. Good fucking luck.

Try finding Eagles or Maple Leaves without the dealer premium of three bucks or so. 

Shelves at your coin store aren't quite as bare as your local gun store's ammo shelves, but it is getting awfully close. 

Copper, brass and lead.

The new bubble in semi precious metals.

Who knew ? 

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:10 | 3126079 philipat
philipat's picture


Sun, 01/06/2013 - 05:56 | 3126724 steveo77
steveo77's picture

I buy gold and silver any time I want at reasonable over melt

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:15 | 3125875 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

I believe the information here would provide you some answers to your question:  http://www.gata.org

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:19 | 3125882 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

'Strong USD policy' = naked short precious metals to defend the fiat paper in your wallet.    

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 05:55 | 3126723 steveo77
steveo77's picture

Oh effen give me a break............

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:45 | 3125918 hampsterwheel
hampsterwheel's picture

Biderman -- when he apologizes publicallly for being wrong and Schiff being right in talking about the $9 trillion dollar debt and the pending house bubble 2006 on CNBC .....History has shown he got pawned by Schiff  - and I have a hard time listening to him now - just listen to him -- come on Biderman just admit you were WRONG and cost a lot of people alot of real money who listen to you ---- and now with GLD - even worse - that internet's a bitch huh Biderman -


Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:16 | 3125948 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

Completely agree hampsterwheel! Why on EARTH does anyone (incl. ZH!) take Biderman serious now that he has 'suddenly' seen the light and, of all metal investment possebilities, he manages to choose two of the worst ones: GLD and SLV?!? Hello Charles, wakey wakey, where were you 5-10 years ago regarding physical metals?!

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:49 | 3126040 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Anyone recommending GLD or SLV is a Bankster shill.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 01:27 | 3126582 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Biderman has been beaten to a pulp on ZH, and deservedly so.

He's a fucking stooge.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 11:45 | 3126959 fuu
fuu's picture

A fucking stooge who sold out to Goldman Sachs when the going got rough.


Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:41 | 3126026 Haole
Haole's picture

"I see Facebook as a $1000 stock someday" as he dumps the ~3% of his total holdings it comprised after the IPO into the bidding of fools...

I'll keep saying it at every opportunity.

Biderman is a perfect example of what is wrong, not only with the markets but with the U.S. itself.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:45 | 3126032 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

agreed about Biderman. so why is sprott kissing his ass?

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:05 | 3126069 Haole
Haole's picture


Not his turn on KWN again yet?



Sun, 01/06/2013 - 08:58 | 3126793 Zaydac
Zaydac's picture

Listen to the interview - the whole thing was set up as a selling platform for Mr. Sprott's trusts. I have a lot of respect for Sprott and some of his published research a couple of years ago was worth studying, but this was a sham interview if ever I heard one. I admit I turned it off about half way through but I don't spend my precious time listening to a sell-side talk his own book.

The correct answer to Biderman's question is given by Mauldin: http://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/its-all-about-the-jobs...

Good analysis of the current POG here: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38201.html

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 11:13 | 3126914 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Any time any of these financial guys say anything it is to make a profit, either to get customers, or raise the value of their holdings. None of them care if you make the right investments or lose everytning. Keep that in mind when listening to them, all of them.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:50 | 3125931 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

Price of Gold down because of HFT, brought on by your Government.

This is their only option at this juncture.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 19:13 | 3125971 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

i will admit, i do not understand why gold and silver are dropping these past few weeks ?????

The price is controlled by software, not by the free market. To discourage demand for physical and in the vain hope enough people will sell metal to bring more supply into the market because "they" need it. 

Bottom line: We aere near, I think, "the moment" the physical market takes permanent control away from the software.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:44 | 3126160 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I'm wondering,

Is JPM (and friends) shorting and BUYING, or JUST making money shorting?


Sat, 01/05/2013 - 22:06 | 3126291 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

What would you do?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 02:55 | 3126662 Jreb
Jreb's picture

One of the most important questions ever asked regarding metals here on these pages followed by one of the best ever answers. +1000 for you.

Indeed what would any of us do?

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 22:05 | 3126287 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

I love the smell of market turmoil in the morning.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:25 | 3126113 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Seasmoke, let me answer your question.  If you want to buy an iPad and the local Best Buy puts them on sale for 30% off you just buy it and congratulate yourself for getting a good deal.  You don't ask why it was on sale. Don't ask why gold is on sale.  Just buy it.


Sat, 01/05/2013 - 20:59 | 3126186 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

Gold is dropping because the dollar is still considered a safe haven.

Don't yell at me.

I know that sounds crazy.

But the truth is the truth.

Whenever the market sniffs risk, investors run to bonds.


Sat, 01/05/2013 - 23:55 | 3126448 HD
HD's picture

I've heard it referred to as "shaking the equity tree"...

At least back when the market was ALLOWED to sell off.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:28 | 3127406 monogratis
monogratis's picture

That's a good point.  Asset liquidation is occuring in gold and silver because it is the two markets that are allowed to be shorted.  Investors have to cover their dollar shorts somehow, and gold and silver are the ideal place to do that when the stock market is rigged.  The gold and silver markets are not "rigged" in the same way as stocks are.


However, we know that gold and silver prices will rise again because the spread between futures contract prices and spot prices is rather large and it is unlikely that futures prices will fall significantly unless some major central bank liquidates their gold which is unlikely since it has already been leased out and the rest of their assets are just paper certificates from bankrupt governments.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 03:52 | 3126683 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture



happens every december january.  weird combination of year end tax loss selling, traders gone for the holidays therefore thin markets, new year uncertainty and volatility due to december weakness, and heavy hand understanding of weak hand psycology.  BTFD

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 09:55 | 3126837 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

You are talking about the paper, oui? AS for me- my gold and silver is not for sale.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 11:05 | 3126905 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

re this:

i will admit, i do not understand why gold and silver are dropping these past few weeks...

easy.  if you owned paper gold, would you not want to sell it, even at a loss, and use the proceeds to get the real phyz from your local dealer?  that's why premiums on bullion are rising.  paper gold could technically go to zero (i.e. comex default) or be settled w/ fiat; but not w/ phyz delivery

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:44 | 3125819 Dr.
Dr.'s picture

Year-End sell-off and personal buying by TBTB. Go along with it.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:44 | 3125821 Dr.
Dr.'s picture

Aka: BTFD.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 17:58 | 3125842 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

check out the physical market.  lot of product sold out.  particularly junk silver

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:36 | 3125906 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I take delivery weekly of silver and a lot of product is harder to find. I switched to gold this week and bought a couple of coins. I always play the Burl Ives song Silver and Gold while stacking

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 02:17 | 3126626 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

I sell silver  weekly  and a lot of product is is hard to unload. I switched to gold this week and sold a couple of coins. I always play the Burl Ives song Silver and Gold while rolling the cash over into Bitcoins.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 02:28 | 3126638 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You should be singing this to yourself...



Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:00 | 3125844 magnetic
magnetic's picture

The metals were short term overbought and due for a correction, which retraced a bit more than 62% of the preceding up wave.  That is all. You do not need to have a "reason" for every up and down move, that is just not how the world works.  Learn to like it, because you cannot change it.

Sat, 01/05/2013 - 18:08 | 3125861 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yes yes short term fibonacci dow theory spx is on my radar follow the green line head and shoulders vomit garbage rabble rabble rabble.

(cracking open a beer)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 02:31 | 3126643 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

He learned everything he needed to know from the "channelingstocks.com" guy... See ~ what you have to do is to BUY LOW ~ & SELL HIGH... The same paper joobux (masquerading as gold) over & over...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!